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  • dademon1982dademon1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 21 Arc User
    Hey all,

    A bit late to the party, but better late than never, right?

    I can't add anything that hasn't been said here, by others in a way better than I could do myself. I haven't experienced too much issues firsthand because I'm being semi-disabled due to lower back pain since the week before mod 16 came live. The entire time I did read the forums and kept up-to-date via Reddit, Youtube and Discord. Memories to mod 6 come to mind, which almost drove me away (well, it did for a few weeks, but I came back), so I can Imagine what everyone has to go through.

    Now that I can play for short bursts again, I have to say:
    All this negativity is also impacting my urge to play NW when I can sit for a few mins. I like the Undermountain bits (did 3 toons on preview, and nearly done with my main on live), but since everything else is pretty much broken it is hard to avoid negativity in-game as well.

    Like others have said; I sincerely hope that this is the start of you guys starting to LISTEN to the community, instead of this just being damage control mode... AGAIN. We will need proof that stuff is being fixed, instead of just words, even though the apology is much appreciated.

    Show us that you are sincere!

    FateSpinners Guild Leader We are RECRUITING!!
  • dademon1982dademon1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 21 Arc User
    Another thing I forgot, added as a separate post as I read in this topic that edited posts get deleted for some reason;

    It might be a good time to start using our human skill to "learn and adapt" from the mistakes of the past.
    - Black Ice was a big issue in mod 3, yet it was revamped and implemented tenfold for mod 10 as voninblod. WHY?
    - The level cap increase in mod 6, brought a lot of issues of near unplayable dungeons due to godmode enemies, and here we are again in mod 16. WHY?
    - Let's not even talk about the numerous "balancing passes" between enchants and classes, which mostly lead to "flavor of the mod" builds.

    Monitor what works and what does not. You can have gold with this game, but yet these repeats of mistakes puts both us players and you devs in a vicious circle.

    FateSpinners Guild Leader We are RECRUITING!!
  • hercules125hercules125 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    The biggest thing they could do to gain any credibility is to restore the old classes and undo the scaling, otherwise it's just words. Just empty words.

    Not holding my breath.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,355 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Bring it home Mr. Foss. This Stream will be PACKED with viewers.

    Rest assured... it will go well if you talk about the current condition of the game and community and layout what you are going to do to fix the mess. Then.... you can get us excited about the Guild Love and future content coming in the next mod or two.

    If you just plan to discuss the next MOD... expect another mess on your hands.
    Post edited by aandrethegiant on

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
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  • aratecharatech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    krevg said:

    Mr. Foss, your apology for some of the issues created by Mod 16 is appreciated. However, if you are truly looking to better listen to players, the development team must address the scaling issues. Scaling has been commented on more than any single issue I can remember since NW's initial launch, yet the development team still does not seem to grasp the gravity and magnitude of this issue.

    As scaling exists now, progression and increased stats from upgrading enchantments is stopped at very low ranks in scaled zones. This breaks a fundamental mechanic of level and stat based adventure games, which is that as you level up upgrade your character's equipment, you become stronger. This is a critical flaw with the new scaling system that is not a "bug" but must be addressed.

    So, understanding the development team's desire to make older content more difficult, there are several ways to approach fixing this issue.

    1. Make all dungeons level 80 and remove capping, but keep IL scaling for power. This approach is likely the best. It does require adjusting creatures in the existing dungeons, but this has to be done a anyway to make them playable again. I also suggest only scaling power, as power is the measure directly related to damage. This way people don't go from having met the minimum stats to being reduced below the minimum stats in the older content, as is happening now. It also allows for character progression to continue.

    2. Keep the scaling as it is now (not recommended) but allow for some smaller increases in stats due to each enchantments rank a over the capped rank value. While not as good of a method as 1, above, this at least allows for some minor sense of progression. A rank 6 bonding should never give the same stats as a rank 15 bonding in a dungeon. If it does, then it's actually better to use lower level enchants in the L70 content to avoid the additional IL scaling. Let's face it, that just makes no sense, ever!

    3. Some other option that you think of that allows for some sort of progression and doesn't penalize players with scaling for having higher level enchantments.

    The new level cap has made having any L70 content obsolete. People will typically spend only a week or two between L70 and L80. Therefore, the most obvious and best solution is 1 above, to make all current L70 content into L80 content.

    No matter what, some sense of progression must be restored for NW to remain a viable world. Please take your own words to heart and consider the hundreds of player posts commenting on scaling and do something to truly address the core issues.

    Talia (W)

    Taragon (DC)

    Tabbatha (OP)

    Tanya (F)

    Tasha (SW)

    *Edited for typos

    Quoted for truth. The Devs must understand this. They have done what no game in the history of D&D has ever done before, to my knowledge, since Gygax and Company first statted out the game wayyyyyyyy on back in the day: they have made the act of leveling up, the greatest, age old method of telling a player "you have made progress. You have gotten stronger. You have gotten better." to be something that actively punishes you, weakens you, and is to be avoided at all costs.
  • davidmokidavidmoki Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    I guess I speak for the majority of player when I say;
    I refuse to keep playing this game as long as scaling is around.
    I'll log in to get my dailies keys because I don't want to wast my money, but actually playing? No, thanks.
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited May 2019

    2} The CC is out of control. I run a pure elven battle enchant and I spend a huge amount of time getting stunlocked in encounters. If im feeling it this bad with the highest source of CC resistance in the game its bad. I hear in alliance and NWLegit chat constantly of stunlocked to death. Maybe look into diminishing returns for CC on our characters?

    I second this, the CCs gamewide are over the top right now. The CCs last way too long even with an elven battle enchantment and most enemies have lots of CC moves.

    The worst example I've experienced so far was a cradle run, everyone spent half the elevator ride just laying prone on the floor, getting pushed over and over again, or getting grabbed.

    It also doesn't help that at least 2 classes now have reported issues with some of their CC immunity frames not blocking most CCs anymore. These would be rogue and barbarian.

    I will mention that CC diminishing returns is probably not the best route to take, it failed miserably when the devs tried to do that for PVP and even if it was successful it would have created new balance issues. I think the devs just need to reduce the CC duration for PVE enemies and give us more CC immunity frames.
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • heavensake#5599 heavensake Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Boons could have been dealt with in a much simpler way unless no way to re-code. Like to get old boons from sharandar, dread ring, icewind dale, ect just making them less grindy. Rather than have to grind for weeks maybe get boons after 6 days if not just one day of quests. That way people could still play old story lines without having to spending so much time to advance.
  • beigeman#7856 beigeman Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    Why more waiting ? Here's my current experience of the game as it stands.
    I log in.. I try to gather a few resonance whilst rubber-banding from one place to another (only during the runic), suffer the odd death due to lag and use a ton of potions to keep me alive as i don't like permanently holding shift in case a mob is actually next to me and the lag hasn't shown it to me yet. I do the 3 Mexp a day i'm allowed, generally soloing on 1 rune keeping my fingers crossed that I don't get disconnected during the run. I have that experience on 2 toons.. no way do I want to experience that across anymore. That is it.. not proving a fun game now at all in my opinion.
    Add to that the devaluing of all the 3 stat enchants on my TR so I can't sell them nor swap them for account bound single stats.
    I am trying to give you the chance to redeem yourselves........ but I only have so much patience and you now ask me to wait even longer for ??? for what and why I'm not quite sure.

    Yours.. totally disillusioned

  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    it maybe little hard to accept your word, it was 2nd time it turn back and slap us to reminding everyone for another Mod 6 experiences again. if i see Mod 6 3.0 version, that was it, it is over.

    we all do love to level up, scaling isnt one.
    i also aware not wanting to leave other zones as ghost towns. when you add dragon areas to old zones, that was great, and we like to see another "closed-off" sections to be open for next tier adventure, but please mark the "gate as 80 lvl access only", so the lower levels wont get in by mistake.
    one, i am very confused, on campaign, Well of dragons set as level 26, but i am still seeing level 73 mobs.

    Barovia seem to be successful content, but sorry to find out about others exploiting the hunt. i like the hunting format. i think and feel we should have new version of new hunts and types of item turn in scaled challenges, but Tales of the Olds seem catered only to extremist hardcore players.

    please dont make another Mod 6 again. we all hate it. make another succesful module and well liked the most, then all will be forgiven.
    i want to see Waterdeep (huge 3-city districts) and Calimshan (city of thieves in faction guilds) with lot of roof-top quests, and new classes. please ask me about several ideas for Calimshan, i have list for it and story plots. "Calimshan: Song of the Sands" break into 3 module trilogy.
  • jobelo71#5623 jobelo71 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    I will go direct to the point.

    What are you going to do or change in your scaling approach?
    Why my legendary rune, enchant and insignia are equal to a purple when you scale me down? Stats should be cap at the end of the scaling not at the source of stats. You create the perception that my better gear doesn’t mean anything.
    Why cap are so low? No one ever played those zone so low.
    Why the reward of dungeon was not adjusted? Do you think end game player want to run any dungeon with the actual reward ?
    Why did you lunch that mod ? You clearly knew about the bugs and customer feedback.
    Could you provide better choice in feat, since we only have 5 choices to make. And please add more option to all classes, we don’t want to be all the same.
    I invest a lot in my enchant. Millions. The weight of my enchant was significally reduce in mod 16. I have spend money on enchant. Why should spend more money in the game after that? You just devaluated my build, my effort and my money.

    Thank you.
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    as summoner33 said, mod 16 didnt feel like rpg D&D, it felt more like casino online. since we pour out stacks of potions, health stones and revive scrolls like sands went everywhere in seconds and going broke, devs calling it "it's all good"?

    news flash, It's all good is not that good. like AT&T's ads, Just ok is not Ok!
  • magekazin#3980 magekazin Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    I have few main things to say. First, I'll just echo what others have said, scaling was a horrible idea, just look at other games that tried it, they all dropped it as it brings no enjoyment or feeling of accomplishing anything for the player. As for the new feats, they are a joke, you now have one and only one way to play classes, gone is all the personal touches the muli ways to play, all gone. That is just not fun. Heck as the way the game stands right now, new players who is who you are targeting and trying to get more of will not stay. They will try out a class, get killed by the simplest of enemies over and over till they just say well this is a waste of time, and delete the game.

    Second if you truly want to gain back the trust of your players, then you should delay the release of mod 16 on the consoles till it is in a payable state, not this glitched broken mod you have right now.

    Finally and I say this with all due respect, no matter what you say or how you justify the choices that were made, in the end how the devs move forward with this will determine how your company is viewed going forward. If you continue to push changes that the player base loathes then that will be the perception of your company. And it will effect not only NW but any other game they produce.
  • talon1970talon1970 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 152 Arc User

    @mimicking#6533 @nitocris83
    No offense Mr. Foss but you know what I want to see? A Cryptic QUALITY ASSURANCE and testing Live Stream! And I am not the only one.

    You know what I really want to see? I want to see 5 cryptic employees in a party doing a random queue of any level 70 dungeon or skirmish on level 71-80 characters. This should not take them more than 45 minutes right?

    I would like to see the tanks point of view, the healers pov and one dps pov. NO GOD MODE! Play the game as we play it. To make it more fun you should use 5 random characters picked from the player base using the gear and set up that player has. (If you need help learning how to record and upload different POV's just ask. We have several community streamers that would probably love to help just to see this.)

    I mean this should not be a problem because you do have a QA department right? They are testing content right? You don't even have to disrupt their testing, just screencap them and stream it. They do party content right? They must be using random queues right? They do stronghold content right? I am not asking for anything "EXTRA" You should be doing all of this anyway with folks dedicated to QA, so business as usual but just showing it being done... RIGHT?

    This is a great idea.
    I would pay real money to see that.

    Skip the Q and A (meaningless without any reversal announcements).
    Stream Cryptic devs live running CR, ToNG, mSP and low-level quests on your lvl 80 toons.
    No God Mode. Live.
    You say this is "right where we want it"?
    Fine. Prove it.
    Play it for us to see.

    And without the "perfect" companions/augments or "BIS" Mounts/Powers..
    High Enchants are allowed

    If they would do it, it should be "fair"...

    Afk about to buy a really large box with popcorn
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    Can you help the community understand the specific intent behind scaling?

    Specifically, do you want players to be able to continue to "get better" as they gear up, or do you want everyone past the max requirement ("cap") for a piece of content to all complete it equally well, or do you want to punish anyone above cap by making them less effective than a player geared within the expected level range?

    Also, I appreciate what you've laid out here, but I strongly second mickyp00's feedback about process improvements. There's a clear lack of coordination and testing, and that's causing a lot of rework / problems for you. Can you try to get out ahead of this a little more? We want to see you succeed.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,015 Arc User
    @mimicking#6533 I don't want to be a party pooper, but I have to thank you for making Vanguard Fighter extremely awesome 👍The only complaint I have about M16 so far is that the dev ( @asterdahl ?) seems to have forgot to implement a TAB-mechanic for said class.
    Elite Whaleboy
This discussion has been closed.