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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    Well, I can understand the reasoning behind scaling...I mean, there is a lot of complaints like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/bb5372/whats_up_with_high_level_players_rushing_lvl_12/

    As long as there is a reason for high-end players to do lower-level content, they will massively outperform the lower-level players unless they are scaled down. The problem is if they get scaled down too aggressively the low-level content is no longer as fun, as it takes away some of the motivation to improve the character.

    The other thing this does is it makes players not want to do the content at all unless the rewards are worth it. If the rewards per time don't match the frustration then we won't see people doing it. Right now, the rewards are worth queuing into a 5 minute run for essentially 10,000 rAD. Will queuing into the randoms for 15 to 25min of time be worth 10,000 rAD in the future with the extra time to run the content and low level players now having to carry the max level players? Since the randoms were a way to get players to run with the new players I think this change will have some negative consequences to players wanting to run early game content.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 55k : Siren (TR): 60k : Torun (DC): 54k : Siren OP (OP): 59k : Siren SW (SW): 54k : Modern (F): 62k : Cherry1 (CW) : 48k Siren HR (HR): 54k
  • davidmokidavidmoki Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    adinosii said:


    With this scaling implementation, how does that affect quests in Sharandar, Dread Ring and so forth?

    I did some actual testing. I ran soloable, instanced content like the Arcane Reservoir and Phantasmal Fortress in Dread Ring, using a stopwatch. This was a very limited test, using just a single "close to BiS" character, my Cleric.

    On Live I had a L70 19K IL DO DC, with a DPS-focused build. On Preview I had that same character as a L80 Arbiter Cleric and with an IL of somewhere between 23K and 24K (I'm currently at work and don't have the exact number, sorry).

    Anyhow after running the content as fast as I could in both cases, the bottom line was that the same content with exactly the same fights takes around 50% longer in Mod 16. Now there is a small increase in the time spent running from one fight to the next (lower Movement in Mod 16), but the main cause of the delay is that combat takes about twice as long as it used to do.

    Now I make no claims regarding whether this applies to other classes, but for me, this is what I expect once M16 goes live.
    Have you tried River district? As a DPS Barb I no longer can solo it, it takes ages to the Heroic Encounters and in the end I have to use potions or I'll die... I can solo those brain dead in mod 15 :'(
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User
    davidmoki said:

    adinosii said:


    With this scaling implementation, how does that affect quests in Sharandar, Dread Ring and so forth?

    I did some actual testing. I ran soloable, instanced content like the Arcane Reservoir and Phantasmal Fortress in Dread Ring, using a stopwatch. This was a very limited test, using just a single "close to BiS" character, my Cleric.

    On Live I had a L70 19K IL DO DC, with a DPS-focused build. On Preview I had that same character as a L80 Arbiter Cleric and with an IL of somewhere between 23K and 24K (I'm currently at work and don't have the exact number, sorry).

    Anyhow after running the content as fast as I could in both cases, the bottom line was that the same content with exactly the same fights takes around 50% longer in Mod 16. Now there is a small increase in the time spent running from one fight to the next (lower Movement in Mod 16), but the main cause of the delay is that combat takes about twice as long as it used to do.

    Now I make no claims regarding whether this applies to other classes, but for me, this is what I expect once M16 goes live.
    Have you tried River district? As a DPS Barb I no longer can solo it, it takes ages to the Heroic Encounters and in the end I have to use potions or I'll die... I can solo those brain dead in mod 15 :'(
    the diference is probably because Dread Ring and Sharandar are not "end game" instances atm since you can join in lower level atm (lv 65 i believe) so the probably have done some tunning on the scalling there..
  • davidmokidavidmoki Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    rafaelda said:

    davidmoki said:

    adinosii said:


    With this scaling implementation, how does that affect quests in Sharandar, Dread Ring and so forth?

    I did some actual testing. I ran soloable, instanced content like the Arcane Reservoir and Phantasmal Fortress in Dread Ring, using a stopwatch. This was a very limited test, using just a single "close to BiS" character, my Cleric.

    On Live I had a L70 19K IL DO DC, with a DPS-focused build. On Preview I had that same character as a L80 Arbiter Cleric and with an IL of somewhere between 23K and 24K (I'm currently at work and don't have the exact number, sorry).

    Anyhow after running the content as fast as I could in both cases, the bottom line was that the same content with exactly the same fights takes around 50% longer in Mod 16. Now there is a small increase in the time spent running from one fight to the next (lower Movement in Mod 16), but the main cause of the delay is that combat takes about twice as long as it used to do.

    Now I make no claims regarding whether this applies to other classes, but for me, this is what I expect once M16 goes live.
    Have you tried River district? As a DPS Barb I no longer can solo it, it takes ages to the Heroic Encounters and in the end I have to use potions or I'll die... I can solo those brain dead in mod 15 :'(
    the diference is probably because Dread Ring and Sharandar are not "end game" instances atm since you can join in lower level atm (lv 65 i believe) so the probably have done some tunning on the scalling there..
    but you see, If go to cold run, I can solo any HE and my hp will not go lower than 90%, I tried literally every campaign and two places my HP goes away in 3 seconds, River district and Fane, the curious thing is that there is no middle point, I go from not taking damage to "you are dead".
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User



    Now I hear that SH enemies are going to be level 80, so... doing SH HE's is going to be longer too?

    This potential to SH progression has me quite worried, and frankly I'm concerned that its going to hurt if not out right kill small guilds in trying to make themselves better.

    Everything is going to be longer, but SH enemies are not that bad since the level 80 stuff itself doesn't seem to be a problem, just seems to be problems when you are scaled to content... and for the most part scaling is straight up Hamstered ... Maybe it will be fixed by a patch today??

    Also with the 1000 point to 1% ratio, and the stat explosion on gear the stronghold boons are no where near as valuable as they used to be, the difference in boons between a lvl 16 guild and a lvl 20 guild is something like 2% now (most people can't tell a 2% difference during game play without a tool like ACT).

    Actually, what I was pointing out had to with the SH quests that send you elsewhere. For instance, the stable race takes place in the leveling zones, and the point is that you won't be attacked so you can just run the race. If you're scaled in those zones, the quest becomes vastly harder, especially if you get knocked off your mount. Similarly, the Explorers' guild sends you on scavenger hunts to farm skill nodes, with the understanding that you can search for them without being constantly attacked.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User
    davidmoki said:

    rafaelda said:

    davidmoki said:

    adinosii said:


    With this scaling implementation, how does that affect quests in Sharandar, Dread Ring and so forth?

    I did some actual testing. I ran soloable, instanced content like the Arcane Reservoir and Phantasmal Fortress in Dread Ring, using a stopwatch. This was a very limited test, using just a single "close to BiS" character, my Cleric.

    On Live I had a L70 19K IL DO DC, with a DPS-focused build. On Preview I had that same character as a L80 Arbiter Cleric and with an IL of somewhere between 23K and 24K (I'm currently at work and don't have the exact number, sorry).

    Anyhow after running the content as fast as I could in both cases, the bottom line was that the same content with exactly the same fights takes around 50% longer in Mod 16. Now there is a small increase in the time spent running from one fight to the next (lower Movement in Mod 16), but the main cause of the delay is that combat takes about twice as long as it used to do.

    Now I make no claims regarding whether this applies to other classes, but for me, this is what I expect once M16 goes live.
    Have you tried River district? As a DPS Barb I no longer can solo it, it takes ages to the Heroic Encounters and in the end I have to use potions or I'll die... I can solo those brain dead in mod 15 :'(
    the diference is probably because Dread Ring and Sharandar are not "end game" instances atm since you can join in lower level atm (lv 65 i believe) so the probably have done some tunning on the scalling there..
    but you see, If go to cold run, I can solo any HE and my hp will not go lower than 90%, I tried literally every campaign and two places my HP goes away in 3 seconds, River district and Fane, the curious thing is that there is no middle point, I go from not taking damage to "you are dead".
    Need to go to those instances to test, only did a few quests on Dread Ring, spent my time mostly leveling and testing the classes (5 diferente classes) and trying my luck on some dungeons...

    Lets hope is a Scaling issue and that the next patch can fix it because is a BIG problem for new player, since is impossible to lock you level on 70 to farm boons....
  • drazym123drazym123 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Why does all of this remind me of something from a long time ago... https://swg.fandom.com/wiki/New_Game_Enhancements
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @mwk said:
    > Let me remind Cryptic I'm not really bashing Cryptic, however I believe starting the game from scratch has created a stressful update for everyone to give feedback to even be satisfied with Mod 16.
    >
    > THE COMMUNITY HAS SPOKEN AND MADE THE STATEMENTS!
    >
    We have all seen all these videos and poll results already, like a while ago.
    Yes, alot of unhappy players.
    Took is not unhappy just... heavily concerned.

    I agree with most of your concerns.
    But you are dead wrong about lifesteal. Lifesteal needed to go.

    In a alternate universe NW Mod16 run by The Took you would have just 4 changes:
    1) remove lifesteal
    2) add 5 min cooldown to Stones of health and Scrolls of Life.
    3) greatly boost undesirable paragon capstones (sentinel, protector, archer)
    4) raise toon and enchant cap
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    mwk said:

    You really need to quit advertising for YouTube and just stick to your opinions, and something like delete M16 isn't reasonable feedback. The new mod is coming like it or not. MAKE the adjustments to learn the new feats and encounters. Or don't. But it is not a failing of the game if you refuse to adapt to reworked feat system and powers and suck as a result.


    I am sticking to my opinions, however I'm also stating from a perspective of community with it. It's what I'm seeing as majority of negative comments about Mod 16. I appreciate the effort Cryptic did, but honestly I think Mod 16 has fell short regarding how much was removed. Also relying on setting a complete new game to work with all classes that is already established in Mod 15 and before over the years with something that isn't complete to be released. Never in my life I have seen developers scrap away everything from a game! I can understand a new game that is released, but not a game that is established since 2013; I sound like The Assist Man now. I concur with what streamers are stating and they are playing this game too. So why ignore them? They have outreached the community that have been playing the preview of Mod 16 and that's the response from the community itself or majority. Mod 16 is a mess! How do you want me to act? I'm sorry if I seem a bit strong-willed to you, but I'm been following this quite well with explanation reasons from them on the sidelines watching!


    LIFESTEAL AND RECOVERY IN GEAR STATS ONLY! NOT ENCHANTMENTS BECAUSE THE PROBLEM WAS STACKING! Can we agree on that? So what is going to help me complete harder campaigns now? NOTHING because I don't see effectiveness by what statements the community has shared going back to play the older content at LEVEL 80!

    Don't even mess with me please and community is #1 priority with all game companies! I have my opinions and personally you're kinda arguing with someone that has dealt with getting a ridiculous reason ban abusing support, when the publisher(s) failed to communicate the issue for the community by asking for a game to be improved that caused BSODs with its anti-cheat that didn't work at all to be effective! I have full evidence of me being civil and one support response is "Only siths deal in absolutes" (A SUPPORT CALLED ME A SITH! THAT'S FTC SHUT DOWN RIGHT THERE! IF I EVEN PROCEED WITH IT AND FTC HAS ITS OWN ATTORNEYS AND MONEY TO SHUT DOWN)-and this is the same feeling all over again, but slightly different even though I haven't abused support on this and I plan not to sue Cryptic, unless they treat me by calling me a sneaker head hype beast on a TWITCH STREAM or any other insults! Is it worth it? Nah, not worth it to sue En Masse Entertainment because they bad karma themselves. I will snap if it happens to me again with insults because COMMUNITY IS THE PRIORITY, if I have a reason by how I'm treated with insults from a game company and I hope that's not the case?! How I can relate is that ignoring a community means drop of playerbase, which did happen for Tera Online, because publishers failed to communicate with the community concerns or issues. Basically the only thing you will get will be civil broken record to make you seem like you're all for yourself and not community with anyone arguing on this speech statement. SORRY CRYPTIC that's reality, so don't blow off the community, when we are still here with Mod 16 issues! Forget what I stated a bit there, I'm not threatening Cryptic at all, it's just my past, and I don't plan on any insults from another game company, but know my feelings why I'm playing this game now. It's the reason why I'm here, because some other game company failed me by insulting me for no reason and especially ignoring a community. So I relate a lot with my experiences in gaming.

    [TERA ONLINE SINCE XIGNCODE AND THEN REMOVED LATER]

    Avg. Players-Gain-% Gain-Peak Players

    June 2018 1,678.0 -411.4 -19.69% 3,219

    March 2019 944.4 +23.4 +2.54% 1,487

    And get this XIGNCODE is removed because it wasn't effective like the community as stated so many times. Customers are always right phrase.

    *sigh* I've been there. Just stating my past and how developers or publishers can ruin their reputation by ignoring their own community. So now you know why I'm stating my reasons. I guess I'll deal with these changes, otherwise I know the future perhaps by the ignorance. Just my two-cents. I hope this is seen by developers, otherwise I'll try to adjust to incompetent or unfinished changes and just roleplay with other players, until this Mod 16 is 100%, not 30%. Personally I don't have any other game to be interested in by virtual reality, so don't expect that from everyone else.


    All I'm stating really that I think Mod 16 is not ready for the community to be released as it is, otherwise so far it's creating a mess of stress to make the game work effectively. So my suggestion is that we should keep what we have with Mod 15.


    So it's quite emotional that XIGNCODE caused BSODs for the community with invalid incompatibility to read APIs by creating system_thread_exception_not_handled. Oh I researched it for hours with no experience in computer logic by only looking at BSOD details. Took awhile to understand. So I'm that strong-willed as a person.

    Now Mod 16 might effect the ability of my gameplay as stated from playerbase that have played Mod 16.

    So yes both causing my ability not to play. At least I can still be in the virtual world because I won't have XIGNCODE causing a BSOD for the community and myself. I'll see the results when released, but so far I have strong doubts.


    AGAIN WE NEED MORE TIME OR JUST DROP MOD 16 AND GIVE US CONTENT! So I'm sorry if my sensitivity shows and I'm sure a lot of playerbase is feeling the same way.

    The Assist Man

    Silv3ry

    and others...I thank you for being there with the community, otherwise I couldn't make this speech of statement from my heart stating for the community and myself.


    The problem wasn't stacking. The problem was that lifesteal by necessity contributed to the binary state of the health bar, and recovery was an excessive variable in balancing powers. Now, without means of reducing cooldowns, they could easily set those cooldowns to be shorter than they currently are, but a stat that you could stack to essentially have 100% uptime on your powers was a definite problem.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    mwk said:

    You really need to quit advertising for YouTube and just stick to your opinions, and something like delete M16 isn't reasonable feedback. The new mod is coming like it or not. MAKE the adjustments to learn the new feats and encounters. Or don't. But it is not a failing of the game if you refuse to adapt to reworked feat system and powers and suck as a result.

    The Assist Man

    Silv3ry

    BTW, this is a false equivalency.
    Assist Man is good YT hype for the game.
    Nothing wrong with that.
    But he does no real testing or stat analysis like Silv3ry.
    Always question the source of your source.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    i'm really not a fan of the limited use of mass scrolls of life before death in combination with taking away lifesteal. there are going to be a lot more fails because of it. if people want to spend tons on that why not?
  • draugkirdraugkir Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    drazym123 said:

    Why does all of this remind me of something from a long time ago... https://swg.fandom.com/wiki/New_Game_Enhancements

    Yup it does. They never learn do they.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User

    i'm really not a fan of the limited use of mass scrolls of life before death in combination with taking away lifesteal. there are going to be a lot more fails because of it. if people want to spend tons on that why not?

    I see your point.
    Trying to view this in the context of Cryptic's (presumed) objectives:
    Make NW more new-player-friendly.
    level the playing field b/w New players and vets.
    Make Tanking and healing mandatory.

    In that context, you want neither of them in the game.
    Strangely, they have not eliminated "insta-heal" stones nor "insta-res" scrolls like you suggest.
    So I assume ("making an HAMSTER out of you and me") they have a reason for that.



    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    mwk said:



    I am sticking to my opinions, however I'm also stating from a perspective of community with it. It's what I'm seeing as majority of negative comments about Mod 16. ...


    As others have pointed out - the changes are coming. You will not stop Mod 16 this way.

    If the changes really upset you - do what I did with M6 (EE) and just take a long break from the game - check back in June for the Protector's Jubilee to see if things are any better.

    If not - go on an even longer break. Try out another game, or pick up a new hobby, come back for the Winter Fest and see what changes have occurred.
    this is as rabid as I've ever seen the forum. I'm trying to not think about it or I'd probably be rabid too. it's too late now. what is happening is happening but people get rabid in the hopes that those in power have a moment of enlightenment and change course from customer feedback. of course it rarely works here. at this point the only option is what you've stated imo. I'm going to give it a chance.. but yeah the only time you get changes for the positive with this management team is just enough people leaving. I know on xbox it's a ghost town. yeah people have come back for tales but in comparison to what I'd expect from tales and a 2x weekend.. it's really a ghost town. as a 18k mof I'm still having a hard time finding games. it isn't usually that way.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    Another reason people ( me at least ) complain about things that we know are coming is so when mass player drop offs occur the devs can come back and get an idea what tweaked our Hamsters so badly. Then they can take into consideration what they did that irked so many and maybe rectify or mitigate it in the future.
    There is no guarantee it will help but it is a starting place should they decide to try and find a reason for a drop off so they know what to fix.

    That is if they read the forums which i am sometimes not sure they do in much depth. So it may be futile on our part.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 221 Arc User
    Well, they do sell the health stones and the scrolls, so I do not expect that to happen unless they decide that they do not sell enough.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Northside (I believe that's the name) has talked with The Assist Man. A lot of them talked on voice chat together by discussion of Mod 16; no joke. Siv3ry, Rai-ner, The Assist Man, Nova, etc~all discussed together. There is no hype. Still I'm not leaving a game of people that I play with. Sure I'll adjust or try to, but I can't believe Cryptic is doing this to their community by not finishing what they started with Mod 16. Nothing anyone and I can do, but if Cryptic will only hold Mod 16 until 100% ready or drop these changes all together, I'm up for it. Mod 16 is just not ready!

    Lifesteal is chance of life or death. Make it work on AI enemies only, not PvP.

    Recovery helps with cooldowns.

    At the same time I think encounters should be 7-10 seconds not 20 seconds.

    I see your point, but really the problem is stacking, but it only concerns PvP correct? However it helps the player at times in gameplay against AI enemies, so all is lost.

    Just the game doesn't work well by removing so much!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    You need to grapple with the concept that MOD 16 is not an update, it is a replacement. Its a brand new game that does not resemble the one we have been playing. I think there is sufficient historical data that shows when a new game comes out that is not fun to play and is full of bugs . . . people do not play it.

    Cryptic has a plan, a really bad and mysterious plan. That is their job. We get to vote with our feet (so to speak).

    Tonight patch was pretty bad. Cryptic did what is has done every week and over corrected with sweeping changes to the math. I experienced significant DPS reduction on HR and OP. 12m expedition took 30m. No one is going to put up with that BS.

    Remember this is the same team that couldn't get an event counter to count to 10.

    When the gaming experience fluctuates so dramatically patch to patch it becomes clear they are just flailing around, IMHO Only the extremely stubborn and the walking dead will keep playing this. Maybe they make this an enjoyable experience by 2020 or maybe they just close up shop bc it costs too much to get there.

    I have played lots of games that were "O SO CLOSE" and couldn't get it right. Rarely does a game with such a large following self destruct by design (SWG is a prime example).

    I am a little angry and very disappointed but that pretty much mirrors real life for most things LOL.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    I don't think Cryptic has a plan to ruin their own game. Sure a bit not doing a job correctly, when it comes to community by technically shooting themselves in the foot by releasing a new established game that isn't the best by all means, and dropping all that contact. Sorry Cryptic, but we are crying a bit here. Where are you? Feedback still isn't good and Mod 16 is unexpected announced on April 23rd. Really? That's 10 days from now as I post thread! Whatever I'm done with forums, I guess I'll see the results and just roleplay until better.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 492 Arc User
    @mwk I do not see much importance in removing the lifesteal. It is somewhat contoured since you can use Astral deva + companions with incoming healing + bonus insignia (that's what I'll do). It was a status that few maximized, I believe only SW's prioritized. As for the recovery he removed so that the encouters had a greater relevance.

    There are problems that are more relevant than the ones you mentioned.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    @hustin1 that brought it all flooding back. ecc omg.. what a nightmare that was.
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    Y'all really turned this into a hamster wheel grind with this latest update. Both preview patches that came late on Friday evenings have been ones that turn me off on Neverwinter. Stats feel like they have lowered again so even general content feels like a chore. Weapon and Armor Exchange is gone. Runestones for companions will have to leveled up without the enchantment trade in. Everyone going to be starting from square one even if you're a 16k-18k vet or 2k fresh 70. My paladin at 21k on preview is getting rocked by mobs that heal at an insane rate or hit for 200-300k by an ettercap in basic runic encounters. It's not fun playing anything solo that scales
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