test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Official M16: General Feedback

1515254565760

Comments

  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    I would expect the PvP crowd to still upgrade them. My understanding is that PvP is a never-ending arms race.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Well it sounds like y'all must be one of the minority players who has a ton of toons maxed out with r14s and unparalleleds. I don't. This update will allow me to expand my class selection since I can bring more up to a viable state. I just can't match this frustration because I see it easier for fresh 80's to get "caught up." If you say enchantments don't matter have you personally tested a toon with all enchantments in and none at all?

    Honestly, I don't mind if the gap between new and end game was lowered (dungeons can be toxic) which I believe are the direction of the these last couple modules have been trying to accomplish.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    The gap between living with Rank 8’s Enchants and Bondings and Rank 13/14 Enchants and Bondings is noticeable.

    The existence of caps on gear doesn’t invalidate that gear’s value in places without a cap (Expeditions and LotMM), which is where current end game players will be concentrating their efforts anyway.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    your stats still need to be adjusted to a certain degree. There will be still items to upgrade to do that. Its just with the 1k to 1 ratio the total benefits are far more limited.

    A fully decked out toon will still be more useful then a less decked out one.

    Its just the curve of expansion doesn't systemically increase as high.

    Just look a single stat ration of Radiant r14 to r15.. its 200 more per enchant, but when you look at say 8 offensive slots x 200

    Thats a additional 1600 power when you look at the new ratios of 1k to 1 ratio, its barely a blip difference.

    However if you take zero enchants your looking at a total station adjustment of 9600 missing.

    Remove weapon enchants ect.

    This are just a base thoughts, not actualy #s, so dont get hung up on it the totals, just using this as a base example.

    You will most likely be doing 10-20% less damage straight up on a decked out toon vs a non decked out toon. (depending on the stats missing)

    Its just the power curve has dropped.. significantly, where its gone from say 80-100% less at all times.

    Was this curve needed? Yes.. but it couldve been done differently as with the above mentioned linearization of enchantments , removal of power sharing, a revamp of weapon enchants and a retooling of buff/debuff groupings.

    All of this couldve been done to adjust the game, without making things so dramatically different.

    But its not going to happen now.. so whatever at this point.





  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    your stats still need to be adjusted to a certain degree. There will be still items to upgrade to do that. Its just with the 1k to 1 ratio the total benefits are far more limited.

    A fully decked out toon will still be more useful then a less decked out one.

    Its just the curve of expansion doesn't systemically increase as high.

    Just look a single stat ration of Radiant r14 to r15.. its 200 more per enchant, but when you look at say 8 offensive slots x 200

    Thats a additional 1600 power when you look at the new ratios of 1k to 1 ratio, its barely a blip difference.

    However if you take zero enchants your looking at a total station adjustment of 9600 missing.

    Remove weapon enchants ect.

    This are just a base thoughts, not actualy #s, so dont get hung up on it the totals, just using this as a base example.

    You will most likely be doing 10-20% less damage straight up on a decked out toon vs a non decked out toon. (depending on the stats missing)

    Its just the power curve has dropped.. significantly, where its gone from say 80-100% less at all times.

    Was this curve needed? Yes.. but it couldve been done differently as with the above mentioned linearization of enchantments , removal of power sharing, a revamp of weapon enchants and a retooling of buff/debuff groupings.

    All of this couldve been done to adjust the game, without making things so dramatically different.

    But its not going to happen now.. so whatever at this point.



    You are probably right with it being 20% more but 20% of nothing is still nothing. Our primary damage is our at wills and those do nothing. That means even top end enchantments you still really don't see a big difference in damage.

    With that said though, most players should have R8. That difference is a bit smaller than the 20%.

    Mod 16 just makes 20K+ IL players a tad better than a player that is 15K IL.

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,293 Arc User

    nce in damage.
    With that said though, most players should have R8.

    In particular considering that not only do you get a full set of enchants with the vistani gear, you get a second set with the Undermountain gear.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > In particular considering that not only do you get a full set of enchants with the vistani gear, you get a second set with the Undermountain gear.

    And much like the Vistani gear, your first character will get the R8s and every character after that will get R6s.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 262 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @micky1p00 said:
    > What is this obsession with youtubers? How can I simplify this?!
    > Youtubers are not the community, they are part of the community some may follow them, some may agree, some may not.
    > A youtuber that plays on console only, and knows what is going on on the preview only second hand, doesn't represent anyone or anything of value.
    >
    > You want to express your opinion, please do so, this is the place and the time. If they want to, they can do it the same way. But I don't see how you repeatedly bringing youtubers as the community helps your point. Let me clarify, it doesn't, especially when some are considered as providers of misleading and incorrect information, and misleading content as click baits. (Not everyone ofcourse, but there is in the list)
    >
    > To your points, both recovery and life steal were / are an issue in PvE. I'm not saying that their removal is the correct solution, but the claim it was PvP issue only is false.
    >
    > If anyone thinks that the entire direction of m16 will magically change in the 2 weeks left until it goes live, I hope whatever you are smoking is easy to grow, I'll make a fortune selling that.
    > (It seems you want the growing? I'm sorry I don't, won't, and personally it's illegal in my state)
    > M16 is practically done deal, it remains to be seen how the more urgent issues are dealt with, especially the 'scaling' and the random stat jumps.
    >
    > Delaying it? There is no such thing as 100% complete. Somewhat an idiom based on Pareto Principal, that it will take much more time and effort to bring any work from 'good' to 'perfect'.
    > So, is it good enough? Or can they make it so? Dunno. In MMO retention if they delay too long they will lose more than they will gain by the fixes. A fine line to walk. My guess is that it will not be delayed unless there will be showstopper, like players can't progress, or can't login.

    All YouTube streamers have reached out to community and other streamers for discussion. So what's your problem? I've seen the gameplay so far and I don't like the results so far! Just because I haven't played preview, doesn't give you any reason to discriminate me and these YouTube streamers that are in fact community, even though they play other games too. Do you really think they don't have a clue how the game works? Of course they do! According to the common sense logic of my mind, these so called YouTube Streamers play the game enough to understand the game and they don't simply stop at level 70 or even 80 for that matter now. However, these YouTube streamers have lives, just like everyone else, so they are casual. These streamers play more frequently than the real casual community! If you don't like my feedback by how I'm giving it? I didn't ask for your opinions. Instead of the direct approach at me, please take me out of it! So seriously you're argument is invalid, pointless, and immature to be in this discussion. Also you never gave the reason why lifesteal and recovery is not needed in PvE. However, I stated my reasons why lifesteal and recovery is needed. The only reason why you're picking a fight argument with me is because you don't like my reasoning apparently. I feel like recovery and lifesteal is needed at times, but not stacked and only put in certain gear stats areas to limit down a problem of invincibility it seems. The way I feel right now is my defense, so how that is going to be solved with enemy flanks? I've seen gameplay and I'm slightly concerned. So please make an agreement on something or work with me on a solution, rather than causing toxic rant. Thank you.
    Post edited by mwk on
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Closing the gap is going to be good for new players and gearing alts in the short term, but the concern being expressed about it not being worth the cost to upgrade past R12 ish is more about middle term. Once you get to that point where there's no real reason to upgrade .... what keeps people playing? Some people will stay regardless, but most people need something to do. As irritating as it is for those of us who are not BiS, the BiS chase actually has a purpose that is good for the game. Lowering the benefits of the the BiS chase lowers motivation and satisfaction for playing overall in a long term sense. I imagine they think that in the long term after enough L80 content is introduced the BiS chase will be back on, but that is realistically YEARS in the future at the rate they introduce new mods. Future mods will need to contain more content to keep that busy feeling if they're going to keep people engaged without a BiS chase.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    > @adinosii said:

    > In particular considering that not only do you get a full set of enchants with the vistani gear, you get a second set with the Undermountain gear.



    And much like the Vistani gear, your first character will get the R8s and every character after that will get R6s.

    You don't need any enchantments come next mod. They are like legendary mounts in mod 15; they won't make or break a character but they do add a bit more to the table for your character. That is what enchantments will offer in mod 16.

    The question is now does it make financial sense for a new player to buy a high end enchantment? Not going forward because the cost out weighs the gains you get from enchantments in mod 16.

    Just like skip buying a legendary mount as the bonus is not worth their cost as well.

    I tell new players all the time now, if you have a PC go try preview for mod 16 if you can. Once it lands on PC I will tell new players to go play mod 16 on PC to see if they like it.

    I didn't like mod 16 as a cleric or fighter. For wizard it wasn't as bad, so that is the only reason why I'm sticking around is to play my wizard.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User

    > @adinosii said:

    > In particular considering that not only do you get a full set of enchants with the vistani gear, you get a second set with the Undermountain gear.



    And much like the Vistani gear, your first character will get the R8s and every character after that will get R6s.

    You don't need any enchantments come next mod. They are like legendary mounts in mod 15; they won't make or break a character but they do add a bit more to the table for your character. That is what enchantments will offer in mod 16.

    The question is now does it make financial sense for a new player to buy a high end enchantment? Not going forward because the cost out weighs the gains you get from enchantments in mod 16.

    Just like skip buying a legendary mount as the bonus is not worth their cost as well.
    Totally true. Friend and I ran 5-80 three times on sets of character with no enchantments. Even into Kessel, Shores, eLoL, Spider. The dungeons were hard of course as a two man team, but honestly with a 5 man team - No enchantments? No problem. The only places I forsee enchantments mattering at all in the near future is LotMM, Cradle, T9, CR. Maybe. Depending on how the scaling shakes out. Seriously devalued.
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:
    > > @adinosii said:
    >
    > > In particular considering that not only do you get a full set of enchants with the vistani gear, you get a second set with the Undermountain gear.
    >
    >
    >
    > And much like the Vistani gear, your first character will get the R8s and every character after that will get R6s.
    >
    > You don't need any enchantments come next mod. They are like legendary mounts in mod 15; they won't make or break a character but they do add a bit more to the table for your character. That is what enchantments will offer in mod 16.
    >
    > The question is now does it make financial sense for a new player to buy a high end enchantment? Not going forward because the cost out weighs the gains you get from enchantments in mod 16.
    >
    > Just like skip buying a legendary mount as the bonus is not worth their cost as well.
    >
    > I tell new players all the time now, if you have a PC go try preview for mod 16 if you can. Once it lands on PC I will tell new players to go play mod 16 on PC to see if they like it.
    >
    > I didn't like mod 16 as a cleric or fighter. For wizard it wasn't as bad, so that is the only reason why I'm sticking around is to play my wizard.

    Why buy when they can create?
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    greywynd said:

    I soooo want to Agree, Like, and LOL at that post.

    Compromise and flag it so the poor youtuber can pretend they deleted it just like they do on any comments pointing out how bad their research is.

  • drumon88drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User

    your stats still need to be adjusted to a certain degree. There will be still items to upgrade to do that. Its just with the 1k to 1 ratio the total benefits are far more limited.

    A fully decked out toon will still be more useful then a less decked out one.

    Its just the curve of expansion doesn't systemically increase as high.

    Just look a single stat ration of Radiant r14 to r15.. its 200 more per enchant, but when you look at say 8 offensive slots x 200

    Thats a additional 1600 power when you look at the new ratios of 1k to 1 ratio, its barely a blip difference.

    However if you take zero enchants your looking at a total station adjustment of 9600 missing.

    Remove weapon enchants ect.

    This are just a base thoughts, not actualy #s, so dont get hung up on it the totals, just using this as a base example.

    You will most likely be doing 10-20% less damage straight up on a decked out toon vs a non decked out toon. (depending on the stats missing)

    Its just the power curve has dropped.. significantly, where its gone from say 80-100% less at all times.

    Was this curve needed? Yes.. but it couldve been done differently as with the above mentioned linearization of enchantments , removal of power sharing, a revamp of weapon enchants and a retooling of buff/debuff groupings.

    All of this couldve been done to adjust the game, without making things so dramatically different.

    But its not going to happen now.. so whatever at this point.





    I actually tested this on my Barb. I have pretty much full R12's with a sprinkling of R13s, R14 bondings, and an Unparalleled Vorpal. My companion-gear runestones are R10's. I took ALL my enchants out (including bondings and companion-gear runestones), then spent an hour running around Vanrakdoom. Yes, I know, solo content. I was in queue for LOTMM the whole time and it didn't pop, I tried. Then I did it again with all the enchants in.

    According to ACT, I lost only about 6% total DPS with NO ENCHANTS AT ALL over near-BIS enchants. I expect the difference between Unp Vorpal and R12's and R13's and fully maxed everything will be less than 1%.

    I'm not happy about that, at all.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User

    Well it sounds like y'all must be one of the minority players who has a ton of toons maxed out with r14s and unparalleleds. I don't. This update will allow me to expand my class selection since I can bring more up to a viable state. I just can't match this frustration because I see it easier for fresh 80's to get "caught up." If you say enchantments don't matter have you personally tested a toon with all enchantments in and none at all?



    Honestly, I don't mind if the gap between new and end game was lowered (dungeons can be toxic) which I believe are the direction of the these last couple modules have been trying to accomplish.


    You are almost correct. Current system (mod15) was based on possibility to spent real monay to fill a gap between BIS/end game player and a new one.

    But size of the gap, or to be more precise reason to fill it does matter.
    In MOD 16 - as you said - you would have easier time to make your toon viable.
    Easier... witch in fact means with lesser use of AD, so with lesser reason to buy ZEN to convert them to AD,

    Seems nice right? Almost - from player perspective its awesome. But in the same time it reduces company ravenue. If it hits a Cryptic we wont get more content etc.

    So I guess there gona be a new ways to have a reason to buy ZEN, or some1 at Cryptic dont like to earn money.

    Latter is highly.... unlikely :D

  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    It’s not like in 6 months there will not be new, harder, content that requires better gear to complete.

    All that happens is “reset the clock” on the slow climb to trivialising content that is currently hard.

    If you are BIS and the content isn’t hard are you not already benefiting from being BIS?
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,441 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    imo they waited way to long to make a change like the stat scaling change. one month was not enough time to address all the implications and bugs it triggered. bad move imo. other than some tweaks to toons that was needed at the time they did this change the game was looking pretty good over all one month was plenty of time to polish the product. they should have put the 1000/1 on hold til 16.5 and just let people know it was coming and spent that time polishing all the toons instead of blowing stuff up so close to release.


  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    The point is that it will be years before there is enough to justify the cost of upgrades. And that isn't actually good for the game as much as players will rejoice. The game needs there to be things to do and things to spend money on.
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    > @gripnir78 said:
    > Well it sounds like y'all must be one of the minority players who has a ton of toons maxed out with r14s and unparalleleds. I don't. This update will allow me to expand my class selection since I can bring more up to a viable state. I just can't match this frustration because I see it easier for fresh 80's to get "caught up." If you say enchantments don't matter have you personally tested a toon with all enchantments in and none at all?
    >
    >
    >
    > Honestly, I don't mind if the gap between new and end game was lowered (dungeons can be toxic) which I believe are the direction of the these last couple modules have been trying to accomplish.
    >
    >
    > You are almost correct. Current system (mod15) was based on possibility to spent real monay to fill a gap between BIS/end game player and a new one.
    >
    > But size of the gap, or to be more precise reason to fill it does matter.
    > In MOD 16 - as you said - you would have easier time to make your toon viable.
    > Easier... witch in fact means with lesser use of AD, so with lesser reason to buy ZEN to convert them to AD,
    >
    > Seems nice right? Almost - from player perspective its awesome. But in the same time it reduces company ravenue. If it hits a Cryptic we wont get more content etc.
    >
    > So I guess there gona be a new ways to have a reason to buy ZEN, or some1 at Cryptic dont like to earn money.
    >
    > Latter is highly.... unlikely :D

    Except for the fact that people (like myself) will be buying Zen for wards to upgrade enchants and new artifacts?
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User

    > @gripnir78 said:

    > Well it sounds like y'all must be one of the minority players who has a ton of toons maxed out with r14s and unparalleleds. I don't. This update will allow me to expand my class selection since I can bring more up to a viable state. I just can't match this frustration because I see it easier for fresh 80's to get "caught up." If you say enchantments don't matter have you personally tested a toon with all enchantments in and none at all?

    >

    >

    >

    > Honestly, I don't mind if the gap between new and end game was lowered (dungeons can be toxic) which I believe are the direction of the these last couple modules have been trying to accomplish.

    >

    >

    > You are almost correct. Current system (mod15) was based on possibility to spent real monay to fill a gap between BIS/end game player and a new one.

    >

    > But size of the gap, or to be more precise reason to fill it does matter.

    > In MOD 16 - as you said - you would have easier time to make your toon viable.

    > Easier... witch in fact means with lesser use of AD, so with lesser reason to buy ZEN to convert them to AD,

    >

    > Seems nice right? Almost - from player perspective its awesome. But in the same time it reduces company ravenue. If it hits a Cryptic we wont get more content etc.

    >

    > So I guess there gona be a new ways to have a reason to buy ZEN, or some1 at Cryptic dont like to earn money.

    >

    > Latter is highly.... unlikely :D



    Except for the fact that people (like myself) will be buying Zen for wards to upgrade enchants and new artifacts?

    Yes, except the fact you gone need much less of those, and keep in mind arti sets you not changing every day, enchantments at this state are not worth upgradeing (mostylo cos 95% of conten is level 70 where rank 15 or 10 works same so...)

    But there is more - enchanted keys price did not changed - while a legendary mouns price droped significantly. Lesser the prize is lesser is the will to risk buying keys, not to mention general drop of value of items form lockboxes.

    Campaign completions - since you have account wide unlock for dungeons there is no need to gring AND buy those. Current state of boons is...meh....

    I am not saying that players stop buing ZEN in general. All I am saying MOD 16 changes made few reasons to buy ZEN less attractive.

  • tharealcuber#2975 tharealcuber Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    I normally play on console (xbox one) and decided to install the game on my laptop last weekend to give it a go. Recently started 2 new characters on console and overall the new character (Fighter) on mod 16 preview was overall harder to play through the content. Not sure yet if it is too hard since I didn't get very far into the content (level 21), but you do notice you have to use your abilities more instead of just hack and slash your way through it. So more thought into how you play is a good thing.

    Worst about new characters is probably not even noticing your new powers upon level up, since there are no choices, they are just added. Maybe it gets a bit better with the Paragon path at level 30 but I doubt it will be very much better based on what I've read so far.

    From what I've read scaling will be a thing, and I hope that at least we feel (at end game characters) a bit more powerful than zone level characters.
Sign In or Register to comment.