Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.
Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.
Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.
Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.
The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.
Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.
When you say "there aren't anymore changes planned for stealth before release" I'm not sure whether to take that as there will be no changes to stealth before this goes live or to take it as we don't have any changes for stealth planned already.
If the former is the correct interpretation, then whisperknife is guaranteed to go live as weaker than assassin in PVE. As me and multiple other players have outlined, whisperknife needs 2 things to become competitive with the other paragon path: #1) Stealth either needs to get updated so its actually worth building a character around it in PVE or WK needs an alternative way to play besides stealthy sneaky. #2) WK's powers need to be buffed and some of them would also need a rework to make them worth using.
As for increasing cunning ambusher's damage bonus to 10%, that's nice and all but it isn't enough to solve the issues we have brought up. A 10% damage buff isn't good enough to justify basing your entire build around stealth in PVE, which is currently how WK works. It also isn't good enough to make stealth of much appeal to assassins, its not totally useless at least but its too small a change.
As for the bait and switch proposed change, I don't think this change is worth bothering with. Your companion already easily does a better job taking the aggro off of you and in team content, the tank will also do a better job.
As for the type of feedback that you'd be most likely to act on, the first 6 posts I put on page 4 of this thread were posted back to back and cover almost everything about rogue. This includes individual feedback on every single rogue power and feat, how these things fit in with eachother, suggestions on how to improve them, diagnosing issues/bugs ect. Read those if you haven't already.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
I'm going to make this brief hoping it makes sense and somebody reads it.
Whisperknife path is quite heavily undermatched not excelling at a role it is trying to be: Is it ranged? Is it AoE? It is good for neither. It is just a tad bit better than the other path. Powers and feats are not where they fit the most.
Hateful Knives is very thematic of Whisperknife in all respects and should be exclusive to the WK tree. It should really be the counterpart of Shocking Execution from the Assassin side
SoD should be in the Assassin path
Tenacious Concealment is outdated. Nobody ever used it at 1 power point, it is an either 100% stealth loss nullified or you don't slot it.
Dagger Threat (or w/e the one that deals more damage closer you are) should be FARTHER. It does not go along the theme of being ranged to be "the closer you are" and so has never made any sense to use it.
Assassin path is more or less in a good place, less the global issues present in all classes of course - too low at wills, too high dailies.
Stealth being useless is an arguable thing. In PvP it still serves a purpose to just be invisible all the time but outside of that it does very little towards PvE content. Because AI monsters don't get scared or panic when attacked by something they can't see! One thing TR mains I think never get - the psychological tool that this is in PvP. It makes a difference when you fight somebody who knows and doesn't know
But monsters don't care. But it can be marketable to PvE if you built on those aspects and tweak content mechanics to where "stealth" is useful. At minimum, a temporary FEAR type debuff on an enemy you attack from stealth. A one-hit kill very FIRST STRIKE-like on AI enemies makes sense too so you'll have a purpose to sneak in and get rid of the toughest enemy (of course not the boss) in a pack of AI.
You can, along those lines, do an alternate PvE only effect to First Strike to instantly kill a single enemy from stealth.
Duelist's Flurry doesn't properly apply bleed if there's a height difference between player and target.
Easily reproducable in Trade of Blades. Attacking the dummies in the lower(dirt) area from on top of the higher(cobblestone) seemingly prevents the bleed application. It works when standing on the same level as them. Application also works fine on the other dummies.
Assassin path is more or less in a good place, less the global issues present in all classes of course - too low at wills, too high dailies.
looks like u didn't log in this week tp preivew and see : -SE got nerf by 40% from 3000 to 1800 -HK from 2800 to 1500 -assassinate from 900 to 725 -wicked fom 800 to 650 -lashing blade from 750 to 600
ofc this is the 2nd nerf to tr encouters .
at will do HAMSTER dmg god forbid they buff them , just go nerf encouter and dailes . it's great when they nerf dailies like se by 40% dmg when it takes 20 years to get full ap .
Smoke Bombs cd is too long, 20s is a long time to wait. A lower cd, like 12-13s with appropriate dmg/duration, would make it more fun and engaging to use.
Similarly for Bait and Switch. The cd is much too long for it to be enjoyable to use. On live it has some synergy with Dazing Strike as it gathers enemies, however, with DS moved to Assassin this interaction is mostly gone.
Path of the Blade could do with a full rework. It's cool, thematically, but gameplay-wise it's dull.
First Strike needs to be reworked. You have specifically lowered damage and introduced scaling to the point we can't steamroll anything. And it's the last feature you get in Assassin. What good is extra damage on one hit of a battle when you want battles to take time? This would be a good place to add a feature that procs on stealth or CA damage use, the way I think the other features should, that adds something fun. Maybe apply a poison dot to all targets hit in the next 5 seconds or something. Er, well, probably not that since one of the feats does that, but something.
One thing TR mains I think never get - the psychological tool that this is in PvP.
If it's any consolation, i get it. I'm not big on PvP myself though but I am well aware invisibility is a great tool for getting the drop on an opponent and those aware of the potential of an ambush will be wary of it and it can make them edgy at times. In PvE Stealth has had a derp effect on enemies where they stand around confused or just go after another player. While them panicking and becoming afraid from the prospect they could be assassinated in the very near future isn't a bad idea we have to remember that critters are generally devoid of conscious thought and throw their lives at us like lambs to the slaughter without so much as a second thought.
Disheartening Strike - Change dots magnitude to 40.
Shuriken Toss - change cast time .25, change number of targets to 4, change magnitude to 40
Encounters
Vengeant's Pursuit - change the aoe attack animation as its very clunky to work. For the unstealthed version increase the magnitude for 350. For stealthed increase the magnitude to 700. Cooldown to 14 seconds.
Blitz - Change to 250 magnitude, gain 1 second cooldown for each mob mob hit, max of 4 seconds.
Impact Shot - Change root effect to a Bleed effect with 70 magnitude for 5 seconds.
Shadow Strike - Change cooldown to 10 seconds.
Shadowy Disappearance - Change to 225 magnitude. Change cooldown to 11 seconds
Class Features
Dagger Threat - Change to 10% Damage
Advantageous Position - Change 20% damage reduction to 15% projectile damage.
Feats
Switch Shadow of Demise and Toxic Blades.
Toxic Blades - Change to 50 magnitude and max stacks to 10
One with Shadows - 10% damage buff for 15 second. Refill full stealth bar.
I thought I'd chime in to highlight some things about whisperknife and hateful knives on preview since you have recently come back. Some of this you figured out and other parts you may not have caught yet:
On Whisperknife:
The playstyle on preview for whisperknife is very different from how it is on live. The preview version of WK currently functions in a similar way to oldschool permastealth sabotuer builds, where the focus was on staying in stealth for prolonged periods of time. This is very different from how sabotuer and whisperknife work on live right now.
On live, sabotuer is heavily oriented towards entering and exiting stealth as often as possible and spends more time out in the open than older sabotuer builds did. WK on preview does have access to two feats (shadowy opportunity and cunning ambusher) that try to incentivize you to play the way sabotuers do on live. However, the permastealth feat hidden attacks and other stealth feats + having access to lots of stealth/utility powers + longer encounter cooldowns drowned out these 2 feat's influence on WK's playstyle.
Whisperknife also no longer supports aggressive playstyle quirks as well as it did on live. It also leans more towards being an AOE build now, on live it didn't have this leaning.
On Hateful Knives:
Despite its very WK sounding name, Hateful knives actually suits assassin's playstyle a little bit better than the reworked whisperknife now. Both still benefit from having access to it though and I wouldn't want to see it taken out of either path. Making this power a shared power was a smart move.
To address the bit about hateful knives needing to be the WK counterpart to shocking execution, I'd argue it already is since hateful knives is currently a universal power and WK doesn't have shocking execution. Meaning Hateful knives DOES function as WK's shocking execution without needing to pull it off assassin.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
How in the world do you expect people to react to Mod 16? I'm here with suggestions from a community! I'm complaining with REASON and my logic concerns! Also my main class is ROGUE!
Lurkers Assault, Lashing Blade, Impact Shot, and Shady Preparations feat is Master Infiltrator in Mod 15! The reason why this Mod 16 is still a mess and it was mentioned many of times that some of these feats, encounters, daily powers, and perhaps class features are put in the wrong paragon in Mod 16! Personally I would like the play close to the same or have some same connections! How hard is it to respect community wishes? The game-play is stated absolutely horrible, especially for Rogue and I've seen it in action! Personally from my perspective, I believe a lot of people want to play the same! I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be forced to play a certain way from something I'm not used to and I'm sure that's everyone else too!
This game has lost its variety and it's downright foolish to get rid of lifesteal and recovery with it! Cryptic blogs stated a problem with stacking. However, removing lifesteal and recovery just doesn't make any sense to me, when stacking can be solved by only putting these stats in GEAR STATS ONLY. It makes sense and at least we will have old mechanics that help. People played the preview and I'm seeing them make the comments that it's insane to play with long-cooldowns at least. Personally I like the chance to have health back, when challenges are hard; lifesteal chance of life or death. Do you really expect people to play this way by removing important stats? I don't understand the logic behind why so much has to be removed! Cryptic is over-thinking it, rather than thinking connections, because for some reason I'm not going to have this! I have even have a feat from campaign that gives me health chance by the enemy hit, which helps me complete Barovia a lot better! People want to play the game, but still don't you get it? Not taking away chance makes it easier, but still a challenge because it's chance. I'm still trying to kick butt as much as I can even in heroic encounters in stronghold. Does Cryptic expect us to die more often, when we can't even hit an encounter most of the time by using at-wills 70-80% of the time? Taking away mechanics of the game is not how a game balance is solved! I see no balance so far! Actually I see more balance in Mod 15 than Mod 16!
How can I stay positive, when so far it's STILL A MESS?! Move on from a game, when most of the community elsewhere is so furious on Mod 16. I'm giving my feedback and it's good feedback! I'm not impressed with this execution for Mod 16! Is because majority haven't tried the preview? No, people have and they aren't happy! Me, I'm on the sidelines watching the negativity float everywhere and trying to stay positive! I'm still worried and so far there are still issues to be addressed with Mod 16! I rather have a game that works, rather than the community and myself furious with Mod 16 once released! We need more time to address!
I'm giving my honest feedback from the community of what I read and also my own opinions/suggestions.
Stop removing so much mechanics of the game, otherwise right now, people are going to be furious with the results!
AND I'M SORRY IF FEEDBACK COLOR ISN'T WORKING...THIS PHONE WON'T TAKE IT OR I DON'T KNOW?
[color=red]BUG: dazing strike only hits one enemy when not in stealth
Isn't that how it's supposed to work? It's only supposed to be a cone from stealth?
It is a very very small area 3 target cap AoE. On stealth it's a cone of 5(or 3 too?) targets.
I may be mis-remembering the target cap numbers, but yest it was/is an AoE out of stealth, it was the most predominant when singularity was used, you could have positioned and hit 3 targets just when they dropped out of the singularity.
[color=red]BUG: dazing strike only hits one enemy when not in stealth
Isn't that how it's supposed to work? It's only supposed to be a cone from stealth?
It is a very very small area 3 target cap AoE. On stealth it's a cone of 5(or 3 too?) targets.
I may be mis-remembering the target cap numbers, but yest it was/is an AoE out of stealth, it was the most predominant when singularity was used, you could have positioned and hit 3 targets just when they dropped out of the singularity.
Well HAMSTER, I've been missing out then. I've never hit more than one target outside of stealth.
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
It would be nice IF devs could bring back some of the old feats from pre mod6 changes, like:
Dazzling Blades [Your At-Wills powers have 3/6/9/12/15% chance to reduce cooldown on recharging Encounter powers by 1 second.] Critical teamwork [You and your nearby allies gain a 12/3/4/5% chance to crit.] Unerring Ambush [Strikes with Deft Strike, Dazing Strike and Blitz deal 4/8/12/16/20% more damage from Stealth .] Brutal Wound [Courage Breaker and Whirlwind of Blades also deal 50/100/150/200/250% of your weapon damage over 5 seconds.] Catspaw Style [Your Blitz and Dazing Strike reduce the target;s defenses by 2/4/6/8/10% This effect cannot stack.] Mocking Knave [Sly Flourish and Cloud of Steel deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage. Additionally, Cloud of Steel's damage bonus per stack is increased by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%.] Nimble Blade [35% chance to deal an additional 4/8/12/1/20% damage on a non critical strike.]
IMO they were much better than the ones after mod 6 "rework" of the game...
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.
Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.
Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.
Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.
The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.
Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.
if you want to boost tr damage with aoe ... just fix dazing strike so that it hits more than one target when used without stealth. keep the mod 15 version of dazing strike please... (mod 15 version as cone effect area attack)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I feel like balancing a class is all about comparing it powers to others classes feats/encounter/dailies.
Can anyone point out 3 most powerfull powers that other classes have and match them to TR?
It could be a list of synergies.
If you only post changes, not explaining them (this is how DEV operate - because they are... who they are).
If you cant get your class better, you always can try to make other classes look weaker and break their synergies like it happend to TR , and then left him with PLAIN skills that you execute in order as much as cooldown let you. Its so RPG style.
I've finally found an improvement mod16 is bringing to TR gameplay.... No longer will I have to scroll down 2 pages to switch from dazing strike to smoke bomb whilst running to trash mobs after finishing a boss.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.
Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.
Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.
Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.
The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.
Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.
Stealth currently provides Combat Adavantage, a 5% damage boost for several seconds after leaving stealth, and special effects on powers themselves. For an upcoming build stealth damage boost is going to 10% for the several seconds after leaving stealth. There aren't any more changes planned for stealth before release.
Rogue does lag behind in AoE damage and will likely receive a bit of a boost there.
Bait and Switch is going to get a threat dump applied to it where the decoy will take a percentage of your threat.
Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.
The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.
Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.
why not keep the live version to grant next power 100% crit and drain all stealth bar? thats what makes rogues amazing, specialy assassin, also a poison/bleed/weak spot mechanic would make assassin/whisperknife a more interesting, stealth smoke bomb apply a 5 magnitude poison dot (smoke bomb duration), stealth lashing blade aplly a 10 magnitude bleed dot(per 2seconds, total 8 seconds), bait and switch decoy drains 50% threat from caster threat pool
Thought I'll give my feedback on the rogue too. Overall the playstyle just feels clunky, slow and nothing connects. Cooldowns are just too long on everything. Encounters should have their cooldowns reduced by atleast 10%, even 20%. Stealth as a mechanic would need something more as it was stated numerous times in this thread.
Swift Footwork: As it says in the name, it should also give movement speed. Add a 10% Run Speed boost to it. Scoundrel Training: After the 500 --> 1000 = 1% stats change, this seems too low. Should be 5000 CA.
Shared powers:
At-wills: Sly Flourish needs an added effect: »Final strike of this combo increanses the target's damage taken by 4% for 15s, stacking up to 3 times.« This is the live version, should work for m16 too. Can be weaker for m16, but just add something…
Encounters: Lashing Blade: The added crit severity when used from stealth isn't good after the 50% crit chance cap. Either make it also 100% crit when used from stealth or change the steath bonus to something else. It doesn't feel good for a bonus to work only 50% (at max) of the time. Smoke Bomb: Lower it's cooldown. Bait and Switch: Same as Smoke bomb, lower the cooldown. Also, why not make it explode when the duration ends? Would be nice since we can see/remove traps, we should also place some too.
Class Features: Tactics: Should be atleast 20%, considering how action point gain was lowered overall. Tenacious Concealment: This is just useless, the numbers should be much higher.
At-wills: Gloaming Cut is not refilling stealth after it kills something. Also, the cast time could be lower, it feels too slow.
Encounters: Impossible to Catch: Useless power now, considering what it does and it's long cooldown. Deflect chance should still be 100% and it should also increanse our run speed. We're impossible to catch during it after all. Also, somehow add the Press Advantage feat from live version. Maybe that could be the steathed effect: Increanse your combat advantage by 10% for it's duration. Wicked Reminder: Stealthed effect is useless, most of us will have our crit capped anyway. Change it to: Also increanse the target's damage taken from critical hits by 5%.
Class Features: Invisible Infiltrator: Considering how long we need to charge our daily powers now, this boost should last longer. Infiltrator's Action: Same as Invisible Infiltrator. Or rework them altogether. Oppressive Darkness: Please write in the tooltip how much more damage we deal. First Strike: 15% is too low, noone is going to use this. Even at 75% on live noone is using it. Should be something like this: Your first attack in combat deals 50% more damage and has 100% crit chance. Refreshes after 15s.
Feats: Assassin's Targed: Great, I like the idea. I think this could just be assassin paths mechanic. Just add it to mechanics row and add another feat here. Toxic Blades: Great, could also be applied by at-wills. But looks perfect for Whisperknife path. Master of Shadows: Not sure, just replace it with something else. Hastily Sharpened Blades: Does this go over the cap? If not, then it's totally useless. Could be replaced by a power that @lordseth1985 suggested: Nimle Blade: % chance to deal an additional % damage on a non critical strike. Execution: Too low of a chance to proc. The % life and/or % chance should be increased. Shadow's Flurry: This is fun, could have a bigger % chance, but I like it. Maybe also make it 100% trigger when using a daily.
At-wills: Dishearthening Strike: reduce Awareness with DoT or let it just increase the damage the targed takes by 5%. Shuriken Toss: Cool idea to add shurikens to rogues disposal, but the animation is so clunky and slow it's not worth using. Lower the cast time and make it ricochet more.
Encounters: Blitz: Remove the jump back. Atleast add this to the stealthed version. Impact Shot: Shouldn't go on cooldown when used from stealth. Shadow Strike: Lower the cast time. Shadowy Disappearance: This needs something more, considering it's the final encounter. Make it also refill stealth when used from stealth.
Daily: Lurker's Assault: Remove the AP block during it. And damage boost should be higher. 10% is nothing, considering how long we need to charge our dailies.
Class Features: Dagger Threat: Makes no sense to be closer to your target when using ranged powers… Razor Action: Pretty sure there should also be a 2% damage increase per target hit, max 10%, same as run speed. Also, please write how long the boost lasts. Make it last 30s?
Feats: Last Moments: This should be in the Assassin's path. Hidden Attacks: Fine, I guess. Could also have the effect of added % damage to foes not targeting you. One with the Shadows: Should refill whole stealth meter and increanse it's damage boost or duration. Shadow of Demise: This should be in Assassin's path, period. There is just no logical explanation why this is here… Gutterborn's Touch: Noone will take this, we will have our accuracy capped all the time anyway. Atleast replace accuracy with combat advantage…
Final feats (both paths):
Assassin: Assassin's Targed as a mechanic. Last Moments | Knife's Edge | Skullcracker | Back Alley Tactics | Shadow of Demise Execution | Dazzling Blades | Duelist's Expertise | Shadowborn | Shadow's Flurry
Whisperknife: Master of Illusion as a mechanic. Toxic Blades | Dark reimbursement | Return to Shadows | Shadowy Opportunity | Gutterborn's Touch Shady Preparations | Hidden Attacks | One with the Shadows | Hastily Sharpened Blades | Ambusher's Haste
Dazzling Blades: Your At-Will powers have a 15% chance to reduce cooldown on recharging Encounter powers by 1 second. Can trigger once every 5 seconds. Shadowborn (live version): entering stealth causes your next encounter power to deal an additional 75% of it's damage, as physical damage, over 4,5s. Adjust it to mod16 power levels, but I think rogues should keep this feat, it goes well into the assassin's path.
Remember the Mirage Weapons set bonus: When you use an encounter power, you become a Master of Illusion for 10s. As a master of Illusion you will summon 3 illusions of yourself to fight for you, attacking your enemies. A master of illusion also does 3% more damage. You can only be a master of illusion once every 30 seconds. Add this somehow. Don't know, but I feel it goes nice with rogues, distracting the enemy with shadows/illusions and attacking from stealth.
In summary: Priority adjustments should be (from left to right): Adjust and replace/add feats that complement the theme/style of each path, lower the coodowns on all encounter powers by atleast 10%, change some of the stealthed effects of encounters (lashing blade, itc,…),…
-English isnt my first language, so please have mercy.-
So, Module 16 is only a few days away and I was constantly torn between if I should even give my feedback or just give up. The TR community is arguably one of the most active ones in the game. Seeing how our thread didnt even reach 10 pages is a good description of how we feel. I am deeply disappointed in how our class and the feedback given by many great people is handled. TR was my first and still is my main toon and I would really like to say it will be in the future, but I dont know if I would be able to keep that promise.
Since I'm not on preview now and don't know every single feat/power/whatever by heart, I'll provide general feedback in this post and continue with specific feedback in another one.
This is not exactly only TR related, but I still want to talk about it: The new combat "system" is not what we want. I've played nearly every MMO out there and it was always the combat that drove me away. Neverwinter was different. I fell in love with how the game feels since the first minute and even more as I progressed. The removal/nerf of recovery was somewhat needed, yes, but not with 95% of buffs removed at the same time. Hitting like a wet noodle AND having cooldowns where you could easily read a whole book isnt rewarding, especially not with a fully geared toon. TRs always had to suffer long cooldowns but how it is now is on another level. There is no fluidity at all. I am okay with dealing lower damage and adjusting my playstyle, but please give us the fast paced combat we know and love back.
Now, where do I begin... TR in M16 just feels like every power, feat,... was thrown into a pot, randomly picked and placed into a paragon. There is no general theme in both of the paragons. There is no theme for TR in general. Assassin is supposed to be the boss melter, the high burst single target damage dealer. Why is the thing we love, the thing that removes huge chunks of HP, called SoD not in it? Why is Lurkers Assault not in it? You want Assassin to be our single target spec but put it in Whisperknife, which is supposed to be our AoE spec? This doenst make any sense. Looking at some additional effects on encounter usage within stealth seems to confirm that. Lashing Blade: With our crit chance capped to 50%; why would you think that this is a good feature? We would in theory only benefit from it for 50% of the time. All those examples show us how terribly broken our class will be in M16.
Talking about whisperknife.. What is this supposed to be? Why would a TR in the new system even need 2 dps paragons to begin with? And we definitely dont want to be a ranged class. We want to stab the bosses in the back, not throw pillows at them. My suggestion: remove it; rework it into something new. Having a new meta means to adjust. We have to adjust depending on with which classes we are running the dungeons. Give us something to support the group when were not the only or strongest dps. Rework Whisperknife in a support paragon based on debuffing (to the extend m16 allows) and crowd control while having high stealth regen and duration. This would allow new encounters like for example a flashbang that blinds enemies, interrupts their actions and decreases their defenses for a certain amount of time. It would give stealth an actual meaning. Every power used within stealth could leave enemies in a "confused" state, allowing us to attack them while they dont fight back for a few seconds. Let us place a real decoy that lures enemies to a place where we can slaughter them together. There would be so many possibilities...
Dont get me wrong: I still want us to be a dps class, but I dont see any point in using Whisperknife at the moment. You wanted to make both paragons viable, I get that, but just splitting stuff without thinking about if its going to fit in there is not going to cut it.
Now, stealth. This is just a fashion feature now. Let it work for WK how I described and give us a new class mechanic for Assassin. Something called like our old capstone "One with the Shadows". Transforming into a shadow lets us get up close and personal with our target, tricking it, study its strategies and deal more damage to it.
Im going to provide specific feedback on feats, powers and class features in another post.
I really hope you wont leave us in the dark and listen to our feedback.
Well I've been wondering why so few posts on TR so I went to read other classes posts and came to 2 answers : 1st the most obvious apparently is that many rogues have left the game since mod 15, which I can't blame. 2nd and most important IMO, is that all posts on TR say the same things (I'll try to sum up ) so why make another post if we all agree ? Despite the loss of efficiency which has to be compared to other classes, we feel a lack of synergy, of logic between parangons, and most off all, of fun playing that way. So since we all agree, it may be time to take our advises into account (feedback are full of reasonnable proposals), or assume officially that TR is now a class only for PVP , cause we actually don't see ATM why a PVE group would desire a TR instead of another DPS class.
Well, right now we're going to be more wanted than ranger, but that's only cause stuff is still broken and causes damage to zero out. I think, from my experience, that the damage isn't actually too far behind other classes on average. But I do agree with the sentiment that it just isn't fun right now. This doesn't feel like a rogue to me.
Why post feedback anyways if it gets ignored? Why try to help and make the class work? Even the devs dont care about us....so it´s fighting windmills now for me. We can post what we want, we dont get heared. As for me, I am a customer, not a no-money player, and as a customer I rely on devs doing the game in a way that we can enjoy. But if even ALL testers say, it´s NOT enjoyable at all, then you as a company, that NEEDS the customers, are doing a big mistake imho. But why bother, we all know about MTG mmorpg and that devs left for doing this game....
Comments
If the former is the correct interpretation, then whisperknife is guaranteed to go live as weaker than assassin in PVE. As me and multiple other players have outlined, whisperknife needs 2 things to become competitive with the other paragon path:
#1) Stealth either needs to get updated so its actually worth building a character around it in PVE or WK needs an alternative way to play besides stealthy sneaky.
#2) WK's powers need to be buffed and some of them would also need a rework to make them worth using.
As for increasing cunning ambusher's damage bonus to 10%, that's nice and all but it isn't enough to solve the issues we have brought up. A 10% damage buff isn't good enough to justify basing your entire build around stealth in PVE, which is currently how WK works. It also isn't good enough to make stealth of much appeal to assassins, its not totally useless at least but its too small a change.
As for the bait and switch proposed change, I don't think this change is worth bothering with. Your companion already easily does a better job taking the aggro off of you and in team content, the tank will also do a better job.
As for the type of feedback that you'd be most likely to act on, the first 6 posts I put on page 4 of this thread were posted back to back and cover almost everything about rogue. This includes individual feedback on every single rogue power and feat, how these things fit in with eachother, suggestions on how to improve them, diagnosing issues/bugs ect. Read those if you haven't already.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Whisperknife path is quite heavily undermatched not excelling at a role it is trying to be: Is it ranged? Is it AoE? It is good for neither. It is just a tad bit better than the other path. Powers and feats are not where they fit the most.
Hateful Knives is very thematic of Whisperknife in all respects and should be exclusive to the WK tree. It should really be the counterpart of Shocking Execution from the Assassin side
SoD should be in the Assassin path
Tenacious Concealment is outdated. Nobody ever used it at 1 power point, it is an either 100% stealth loss nullified or you don't slot it.
Dagger Threat (or w/e the one that deals more damage closer you are) should be FARTHER. It does not go along the theme of being ranged to be "the closer you are" and so has never made any sense to use it.
Stealth being useless is an arguable thing. In PvP it still serves a purpose to just be invisible all the time but outside of that it does very little towards PvE content. Because AI monsters don't get scared or panic when attacked by something they can't see! One thing TR mains I think never get - the psychological tool that this is in PvP. It makes a difference when you fight somebody who knows and doesn't know
But monsters don't care. But it can be marketable to PvE if you built on those aspects and tweak content mechanics to where "stealth" is useful. At minimum, a temporary FEAR type debuff on an enemy you attack from stealth. A one-hit kill very FIRST STRIKE-like on AI enemies makes sense too so you'll have a purpose to sneak in and get rid of the toughest enemy (of course not the boss) in a pack of AI.
You can, along those lines, do an alternate PvE only effect to First Strike to instantly kill a single enemy from stealth.
So much for being brief haha!
Easily reproducable in Trade of Blades. Attacking the dummies in the lower(dirt) area from on top of the higher(cobblestone) seemingly prevents the bleed application. It works when standing on the same level as them. Application also works fine on the other dummies.
-SE got nerf by 40% from 3000 to 1800
-HK from 2800 to 1500
-assassinate from 900 to 725
-wicked fom 800 to 650
-lashing blade from 750 to 600
ofc this is the 2nd nerf to tr encouters .
at will do HAMSTER dmg god forbid they buff them , just go nerf encouter and dailes .
it's great when they nerf dailies like se by 40% dmg when it takes 20 years to get full ap .
A lower cd, like 12-13s with appropriate dmg/duration, would make it more fun and engaging to use.
Similarly for Bait and Switch. The cd is much too long for it to be enjoyable to use.
On live it has some synergy with Dazing Strike as it gathers enemies, however, with DS moved to Assassin this interaction is mostly gone.
Path of the Blade could do with a full rework. It's cool, thematically, but gameplay-wise it's dull.
Atwills
Sly Flourish - Needs an added effect, every 3rd strike apply debuff enemy takes 1% more damage stacking up to 3 times, lasts for 10 seconds.
Encounters
Blade Flurry - Needs the charges back
Lashing Blade - For the stealth effect needs 100% critical chance to go with the 50% critical severity.
Smoke Bomb - Magnitude needs to be 325 and cooldown reduced to 13 seconds.
Bait and Switch - Cooldown needs reduced to 13 seconds.
Daily
Moves Hateful Knives to Whisperknife Paragon. Move Lurker's Assault to the Core, and remove the AP block.
Class Mechanic
Stealth - add 5-10% Critical Severity.
Feats
Scoundrel Training - Change to 5% Encounter damage.
Atwills
Disheartening Strike - Change dots magnitude to 40.
Shuriken Toss - change cast time .25, change number of targets to 4, change magnitude to 40
Encounters
Vengeant's Pursuit - change the aoe attack animation as its very clunky to work. For the unstealthed version increase the magnitude for 350. For stealthed increase the magnitude to 700. Cooldown to 14 seconds.
Blitz - Change to 250 magnitude, gain 1 second cooldown for each mob mob hit, max of 4 seconds.
Impact Shot - Change root effect to a Bleed effect with 70 magnitude for 5 seconds.
Shadow Strike - Change cooldown to 10 seconds.
Shadowy Disappearance - Change to 225 magnitude. Change cooldown to 11 seconds
Class Features
Dagger Threat - Change to 10% Damage
Advantageous Position - Change 20% damage reduction to 15% projectile damage.
Feats
Switch Shadow of Demise and Toxic Blades.
Toxic Blades - Change to 50 magnitude and max stacks to 10
One with Shadows - 10% damage buff for 15 second. Refill full stealth bar.
Encounters
Impossible to Catch - Change cooldown to 10 seconds.
Deft Strike - Change stealth effect to gain 5% damage for 5 seconds.
Wicked Reminder - Change cooldown to 13 seconds. Change to stealth effect to a bleed for 50 magnitude for 10 seconds
Dazing Strike - Change magnitude to 275 magnitude.
Class Features
Infiltrator's Action - Critical strikes give Combat Advantage for 5 seconds. 10 second cooldown.
Invisible Infiltrator - Change to 10% damage for 10 seconds.
Oppressive Darkness - needs a buff, can't give numbers as tooltip doesn't give specifics.
Feats
Move Toxic Blades to Whisperknife Paragon. Move Shadow of Demise to Assassin Paragon.
Hastily Sharpen Blades - Changes Crit Chance to Damage%.
Shadow's Flurry - Change to a 20% chance.
I thought I'd chime in to highlight some things about whisperknife and hateful knives on preview since you have recently come back. Some of this you figured out and other parts you may not have caught yet:
On Whisperknife:
The playstyle on preview for whisperknife is very different from how it is on live. The preview version of WK currently functions in a similar way to oldschool permastealth sabotuer builds, where the focus was on staying in stealth for prolonged periods of time. This is very different from how sabotuer and whisperknife work on live right now.
On live, sabotuer is heavily oriented towards entering and exiting stealth as often as possible and spends more time out in the open than older sabotuer builds did.
WK on preview does have access to two feats (shadowy opportunity and cunning ambusher) that try to incentivize you to play the way sabotuers do on live.
However, the permastealth feat hidden attacks and other stealth feats + having access to lots of stealth/utility powers + longer encounter cooldowns drowned out these 2 feat's influence on WK's playstyle.
Whisperknife also no longer supports aggressive playstyle quirks as well as it did on live. It also leans more towards being an AOE build now, on live it didn't have this leaning.
On Hateful Knives:
Despite its very WK sounding name, Hateful knives actually suits assassin's playstyle a little bit better than the reworked whisperknife now. Both still benefit from having access to it though and I wouldn't want to see it taken out of either path. Making this power a shared power was a smart move.
To address the bit about hateful knives needing to be the WK counterpart to shocking execution, I'd argue it already is since hateful knives is currently a universal power and WK doesn't have shocking execution. Meaning Hateful knives DOES function as WK's shocking execution without needing to pull it off assassin.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Lurkers Assault, Lashing Blade, Impact Shot, and Shady Preparations feat is Master Infiltrator in Mod 15! The reason why this Mod 16 is still a mess and it was mentioned many of times that some of these feats, encounters, daily powers, and perhaps class features are put in the wrong paragon in Mod 16! Personally I would like the play close to the same or have some same connections! How hard is it to respect community wishes? The game-play is stated absolutely horrible, especially for Rogue and I've seen it in action! Personally from my perspective, I believe a lot of people want to play the same! I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be forced to play a certain way from something I'm not used to and I'm sure that's everyone else too!
This game has lost its variety and it's downright foolish to get rid of lifesteal and recovery with it! Cryptic blogs stated a problem with stacking. However, removing lifesteal and recovery just doesn't make any sense to me, when stacking can be solved by only putting these stats in GEAR STATS ONLY. It makes sense and at least we will have old mechanics that help. People played the preview and I'm seeing them make the comments that it's insane to play with long-cooldowns at least. Personally I like the chance to have health back, when challenges are hard; lifesteal chance of life or death. Do you really expect people to play this way by removing important stats? I don't understand the logic behind why so much has to be removed! Cryptic is over-thinking it, rather than thinking connections, because for some reason I'm not going to have this! I have even have a feat from campaign that gives me health chance by the enemy hit, which helps me complete Barovia a lot better! People want to play the game, but still don't you get it? Not taking away chance makes it easier, but still a challenge because it's chance. I'm still trying to kick butt as much as I can even in heroic encounters in stronghold. Does Cryptic expect us to die more often, when we can't even hit an encounter most of the time by using at-wills 70-80% of the time? Taking away mechanics of the game is not how a game balance is solved! I see no balance so far! Actually I see more balance in Mod 15 than Mod 16!
How can I stay positive, when so far it's STILL A MESS?! Move on from a game, when most of the community elsewhere is so furious on Mod 16. I'm giving my feedback and it's good feedback! I'm not impressed with this execution for Mod 16! Is because majority haven't tried the preview? No, people have and they aren't happy! Me, I'm on the sidelines watching the negativity float everywhere and trying to stay positive! I'm still worried and so far there are still issues to be addressed with Mod 16! I rather have a game that works, rather than the community and myself furious with Mod 16 once released! We need more time to address!
I'm giving my honest feedback from the community of what I read and also my own opinions/suggestions.
Stop removing so much mechanics of the game, otherwise right now, people are going to be furious with the results!
AND I'M SORRY IF FEEDBACK COLOR ISN'T WORKING...THIS PHONE WON'T TAKE IT OR I DON'T KNOW?
I may be mis-remembering the target cap numbers, but yest it was/is an AoE out of stealth, it was the most predominant when singularity was used, you could have positioned and hit 3 targets just when they dropped out of the singularity.
Dazzling Blades [Your At-Wills powers have 3/6/9/12/15% chance to reduce cooldown on recharging Encounter powers by 1 second.]
Critical teamwork [You and your nearby allies gain a 12/3/4/5% chance to crit.]
Unerring Ambush [Strikes with Deft Strike, Dazing Strike and Blitz deal 4/8/12/16/20% more damage from Stealth .]
Brutal Wound [Courage Breaker and Whirlwind of Blades also deal 50/100/150/200/250% of your weapon damage over 5 seconds.]
Catspaw Style [Your Blitz and Dazing Strike reduce the target;s defenses by 2/4/6/8/10% This effect cannot stack.]
Mocking Knave [Sly Flourish and Cloud of Steel deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage. Additionally, Cloud of Steel's damage bonus per stack is increased by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%.]
Nimble Blade [35% chance to deal an additional 4/8/12/1/20% damage on a non critical strike.]
IMO they were much better than the ones after mod 6 "rework" of the game...
keep the mod 15 version of dazing strike please... (mod 15 version as cone effect area attack)
Can anyone point out 3 most powerfull powers that other classes have and match them to TR?
It could be a list of synergies.
If you only post changes, not explaining them (this is how DEV operate - because they are... who they are).
If you cant get your class better, you always can try to make other classes look weaker and break their synergies like it happend to TR
Swift Footwork: As it says in the name, it should also give movement speed. Add a 10% Run Speed boost to it.
Scoundrel Training: After the 500 --> 1000 = 1% stats change, this seems too low. Should be 5000 CA.
Shared powers:
At-wills:
Sly Flourish needs an added effect: »Final strike of this combo increanses the target's damage taken by 4% for 15s, stacking up to 3 times.« This is the live version, should work for m16 too. Can be weaker for m16, but just add something…
Encounters:
Lashing Blade: The added crit severity when used from stealth isn't good after the 50% crit chance cap. Either make it also 100% crit when used from stealth or change the steath bonus to something else. It doesn't feel good for a bonus to work only 50% (at max) of the time.
Smoke Bomb: Lower it's cooldown.
Bait and Switch: Same as Smoke bomb, lower the cooldown. Also, why not make it explode when the duration ends? Would be nice since we can see/remove traps, we should also place some too.
Class Features:
Tactics: Should be atleast 20%, considering how action point gain was lowered overall.
Tenacious Concealment: This is just useless, the numbers should be much higher.
Continuing in next post...
At-wills:
Gloaming Cut is not refilling stealth after it kills something. Also, the cast time could be lower, it feels too slow.
Encounters:
Impossible to Catch: Useless power now, considering what it does and it's long cooldown. Deflect chance should still be 100% and it should also increanse our run speed. We're impossible to catch during it after all. Also, somehow add the Press Advantage feat from live version. Maybe that could be the steathed effect: Increanse your combat advantage by 10% for it's duration.
Wicked Reminder: Stealthed effect is useless, most of us will have our crit capped anyway. Change it to: Also increanse the target's damage taken from critical hits by 5%.
Class Features:
Invisible Infiltrator: Considering how long we need to charge our daily powers now, this boost should last longer.
Infiltrator's Action: Same as Invisible Infiltrator. Or rework them altogether.
Oppressive Darkness: Please write in the tooltip how much more damage we deal.
First Strike: 15% is too low, noone is going to use this. Even at 75% on live noone is using it. Should be something like this: Your first attack in combat deals 50% more damage and has 100% crit chance. Refreshes after 15s.
Feats:
Assassin's Targed: Great, I like the idea. I think this could just be assassin paths mechanic. Just add it to mechanics row and add another feat here.
Toxic Blades: Great, could also be applied by at-wills. But looks perfect for Whisperknife path.
Master of Shadows: Not sure, just replace it with something else.
Hastily Sharpened Blades: Does this go over the cap? If not, then it's totally useless. Could be replaced by a power that @lordseth1985 suggested: Nimle Blade: % chance to deal an additional % damage on a non critical strike.
Execution: Too low of a chance to proc. The % life and/or % chance should be increased.
Shadow's Flurry: This is fun, could have a bigger % chance, but I like it. Maybe also make it 100% trigger when using a daily.
Continuing in next post...
At-wills:
Dishearthening Strike: reduce Awareness with DoT or let it just increase the damage the targed takes by 5%.
Shuriken Toss: Cool idea to add shurikens to rogues disposal, but the animation is so clunky and slow it's not worth using. Lower the cast time and make it ricochet more.
Encounters:
Blitz: Remove the jump back. Atleast add this to the stealthed version.
Impact Shot: Shouldn't go on cooldown when used from stealth.
Shadow Strike: Lower the cast time.
Shadowy Disappearance: This needs something more, considering it's the final encounter. Make it also refill stealth when used from stealth.
Daily:
Lurker's Assault: Remove the AP block during it. And damage boost should be higher. 10% is nothing, considering how long we need to charge our dailies.
Class Features:
Dagger Threat: Makes no sense to be closer to your target when using ranged powers…
Razor Action: Pretty sure there should also be a 2% damage increase per target hit, max 10%, same as run speed. Also, please write how long the boost lasts. Make it last 30s?
Feats:
Last Moments: This should be in the Assassin's path.
Hidden Attacks: Fine, I guess. Could also have the effect of added % damage to foes not targeting you.
One with the Shadows: Should refill whole stealth meter and increanse it's damage boost or duration.
Shadow of Demise: This should be in Assassin's path, period. There is just no logical explanation why this is here…
Gutterborn's Touch: Noone will take this, we will have our accuracy capped all the time anyway. Atleast replace accuracy with combat advantage…
Final feats (both paths):
Assassin: Assassin's Targed as a mechanic.
Last Moments | Knife's Edge | Skullcracker | Back Alley Tactics | Shadow of Demise
Execution | Dazzling Blades | Duelist's Expertise | Shadowborn | Shadow's Flurry
Whisperknife: Master of Illusion as a mechanic.
Toxic Blades | Dark reimbursement | Return to Shadows | Shadowy Opportunity | Gutterborn's Touch
Shady Preparations | Hidden Attacks | One with the Shadows | Hastily Sharpened Blades | Ambusher's Haste
Dazzling Blades: Your At-Will powers have a 15% chance to reduce cooldown on recharging Encounter powers by 1 second. Can trigger once every 5 seconds.
Shadowborn (live version): entering stealth causes your next encounter power to deal an additional 75% of it's damage, as physical damage, over 4,5s. Adjust it to mod16 power levels, but I think rogues should keep this feat, it goes well into the assassin's path.
Remember the Mirage Weapons set bonus: When you use an encounter power, you become a Master of Illusion for 10s. As a master of Illusion you will summon 3 illusions of yourself to fight for you, attacking your enemies. A master of illusion also does 3% more damage. You can only be a master of illusion once every 30 seconds. Add this somehow. Don't know, but I feel it goes nice with rogues, distracting the enemy with shadows/illusions and attacking from stealth.
In summary:
Priority adjustments should be (from left to right): Adjust and replace/add feats that complement the theme/style of each path, lower the coodowns on all encounter powers by atleast 10%, change some of the stealthed effects of encounters (lashing blade, itc,…),…
So, Module 16 is only a few days away and I was constantly torn between if I should even give my feedback or just give up. The TR community is arguably one of the most active ones in the game. Seeing how our thread didnt even reach 10 pages is a good description of how we feel. I am deeply disappointed in how our class and the feedback given by many great people is handled. TR was my first and still is my main toon and I would really like to say it will be in the future, but I dont know if I would be able to keep that promise.
Since I'm not on preview now and don't know every single feat/power/whatever by heart, I'll provide general feedback in this post and continue with specific feedback in another one.
This is not exactly only TR related, but I still want to talk about it: The new combat "system" is not what we want. I've played nearly every MMO out there and it was always the combat that drove me away. Neverwinter was different. I fell in love with how the game feels since the first minute and even more as I progressed. The removal/nerf of recovery was somewhat needed, yes, but not with 95% of buffs removed at the same time. Hitting like a wet noodle AND having cooldowns where you could easily read a whole book isnt rewarding, especially not with a fully geared toon. TRs always had to suffer long cooldowns but how it is now is on another level. There is no fluidity at all. I am okay with dealing lower damage and adjusting my playstyle, but please give us the fast paced combat we know and love back.
Now, where do I begin... TR in M16 just feels like every power, feat,... was thrown into a pot, randomly picked and placed into a paragon. There is no general theme in both of the paragons. There is no theme for TR in general. Assassin is supposed to be the boss melter, the high burst single target damage dealer. Why is the thing we love, the thing that removes huge chunks of HP, called SoD not in it? Why is Lurkers Assault not in it? You want Assassin to be our single target spec but put it in Whisperknife, which is supposed to be our AoE spec? This doenst make any sense. Looking at some additional effects on encounter usage within stealth seems to confirm that. Lashing Blade: With our crit chance capped to 50%; why would you think that this is a good feature? We would in theory only benefit from it for 50% of the time. All those examples show us how terribly broken our class will be in M16.
Talking about whisperknife.. What is this supposed to be? Why would a TR in the new system even need 2 dps paragons to begin with? And we definitely dont want to be a ranged class. We want to stab the bosses in the back, not throw pillows at them. My suggestion: remove it; rework it into something new. Having a new meta means to adjust. We have to adjust depending on with which classes we are running the dungeons. Give us something to support the group when were not the only or strongest dps. Rework Whisperknife in a support paragon based on debuffing (to the extend m16 allows) and crowd control while having high stealth regen and duration. This would allow new encounters like for example a flashbang that blinds enemies, interrupts their actions and decreases their defenses for a certain amount of time. It would give stealth an actual meaning. Every power used within stealth could leave enemies in a "confused" state, allowing us to attack them while they dont fight back for a few seconds. Let us place a real decoy that lures enemies to a place where we can slaughter them together. There would be so many possibilities...
Dont get me wrong: I still want us to be a dps class, but I dont see any point in using Whisperknife at the moment. You wanted to make both paragons viable, I get that, but just splitting stuff without thinking about if its going to fit in there is not going to cut it.
Now, stealth. This is just a fashion feature now. Let it work for WK how I described and give us a new class mechanic for Assassin. Something called like our old capstone "One with the Shadows". Transforming into a shadow lets us get up close and personal with our target, tricking it, study its strategies and deal more damage to it.
Im going to provide specific feedback on feats, powers and class features in another post.
I really hope you wont leave us in the dark and listen to our feedback.
1st the most obvious apparently is that many rogues have left the game since mod 15, which I can't blame.
2nd and most important IMO, is that all posts on TR say the same things (I'll try to sum up ) so why make another post if we all agree ?
Despite the loss of efficiency which has to be compared to other classes, we feel a lack of synergy, of logic between parangons, and most off all, of fun playing that way. So since we all agree, it may be time to take our advises into account (feedback are full of reasonnable proposals), or assume officially that TR is now a class only for PVP , cause we actually don't see ATM why a PVE group would desire a TR instead of another DPS class.
As for me, I am a customer, not a no-money player, and as a customer I rely on devs doing the game in a way that we can enjoy. But if even ALL testers say, it´s NOT enjoyable at all, then you as a company, that NEEDS the customers, are doing a big mistake imho. But why bother, we all know about MTG mmorpg and that devs left for doing this game....