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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Posts: 273Member Arc User
    > @wisper2048 said:
    > After this week patch, the exchange vendor gives enchants, runestones, weapon and armor enchants Bound to Account
    > this kills the purpose of the exchange vendor itself, it was supposed to be a help for user after everything ingame has changed. With this change it's a severe punishment to anyone who uses it because that enchanment will be stuck to you forever, so the only real alternative is passing days or weeks trying to exchange enchants.
    > For the runestones is even worse because with the M16 changes and this Bound to Account exchange, the only way is building 6 new runestones from scratch so if it's needed in a future we can exchange them with other players.
    >
    > In conclusion, I do hope this change is a bug and it gets fixed before reaching live, because if it's working as intended this needs to be clearly stated ingame with red bold letters and also in the game web announcements (blog).
    >
    > This is very serious! I do hope it was not intended. The lack of patch notes this week makes me wonder for the opposite scenario though.
    >
    > There were some vocal advocates for this change from console world. So this is intentional. They claimed that unless this is done "the console market will broken". Devs decided to listen to them instead to their opponents like me and some others.

    Hmm as someone from the console side, going to say "Hell No" this should not be working as intended. This should Notbe bound to account. Devs again listening to a loud vocal minority instead of doing the right things.
  • silvergryphsilvergryph Posts: 737Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I've had an issue with 2 different toons that I've leveled up on the preview server: some bags (celestial bags from invoking for example) will give an error: "You already have all items from this pack." The first time I encountered it, I discarded it. The second time I held onto it until around level 35 and it actually opened and gave a peridot. I tried at various level ups along the way with no success. The other bag that gave this issue was the bag bought with bounty currency (blackdagger for this specific instance) that awards an "unidentified" piece of equipment (to test the recent no identify scroll change)



    Some of the adventurer leveling up crates still award identify scrolls.



    Bondings of the same rank still stack and can't be equipped unless you can differentiate (refine) the stones to be different ranks

    When you get the error message opening a bag try typing this command: /LootCancel
  • silvergryphsilvergryph Posts: 737Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 1
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 3,166Member Arc User
    lowjohn said:


    Did they change that? I thought the box was bound but the enchantment inside was unbound. If they changed that they are really trying to pull a fast one on long time players. Not good IMO.

    Since Friday, using the enchant exchanger causes the resulting enchant to be Bound To Account.

    There is nothing in the patch notes to indicate whether this was intended or not (no patch notes at all, in fact) and no developer (or @nitocris83 ) has commented to say whether the change from unbound to bound was intended or not.

    So we don't know *what* is going on, beyond that it's been unbound all through preview so far, and now it's not. We don't know if this was a mistake, a deliberate change, or if the unbound state from before was the mistake.
    It is what it is; if the devs really want to turn the game into a bigger money maker they will leave this as is knowing some players will swap and later on spend, those that stick around that is. Just like they know players will spend $$$ on getting the new BiS companions and upgrading them. This update is all about players spending money. The devs state mod 16 is being done to make things easier and simpler to code for the longevity of the game, but that isn't the full truth.

    This game has revenue goals to make and I'm sure mod 16 is part of mgmt plan to ensure NWO hits those goals.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,997Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User



    lowjohn said:


    Did they change that? I thought the box was bound but the enchantment inside was unbound. If they changed that they are really trying to pull a fast one on long time players. Not good IMO.

    Since Friday, using the enchant exchanger causes the resulting enchant to be Bound To Account.

    There is nothing in the patch notes to indicate whether this was intended or not (no patch notes at all, in fact) and no developer (or @nitocris83 ) has commented to say whether the change from unbound to bound was intended or not.

    So we don't know *what* is going on, beyond that it's been unbound all through preview so far, and now it's not. We don't know if this was a mistake, a deliberate change, or if the unbound state from before was the mistake.
    It is what it is; if the devs really want to turn the game into a bigger money maker they will leave this as is knowing some players will swap and later on spend, those that stick around that is. Just like they know players will spend $$$ on getting the new BiS companions and upgrading them. This update is all about players spending money. The devs state mod 16 is being done to make things easier and simpler to code for the longevity of the game, but that isn't the full truth.

    This game has revenue goals to make and I'm sure mod 16 is part of mgmt plan to ensure NWO hits those goals.
    It wouldn't be the first time we were lied to. When Mod 6 launched, the devs swore up and down that kicking everyone's survivability in the teeth wasn't to drive people toward playing the spiffy new OP -- until half the playerbase left and they were finally forced to admit it.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME.
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  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,500Member Arc User
    Who honestly believed the enchants wouldn't end up being BtA at some point? Must not be playing Neverwinter if you thought that was going to go live.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,941Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 1
    Noworries confirmed the BtA is intentional, so I guess people will just use the exchange vendor for convenience, but the trade channel for everything else.

    Not sure how that will work out.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    It works that people that don’t use trade channel still have a venue for swapping enchants if they need to do so.

    While also stopping speculators from profiting from the change.

    Compare the cost of Training Runestones to others at the moment for example.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
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    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    It works that people that don’t use trade channel still have a venue for swapping enchants if they need to do so.



    While also stopping speculators from profiting from the change.



    Compare the cost of Training Runestones to others at the moment for example.

    Why is it a bad thing for speculators to profit? No item has 100% absolute value. There's no great injustice involved if someone happened to have a bunch of training runestones and suddenly their net wealth is a lot higher.
  • jbball92#2946 jbball92 Posts: 7Member Arc User
    Nice cash grab Lmao. bta enchants from exchange is a genius move to make us have to spend $$ on new enchants when we get new gear.

    Wondering what agenda you guys have in pushing so hard toward releasing this modso soon, with minimal testing and feedback ? 🤷🏻‍♂️🤔
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 412Member Arc User
    edited April 1
    Many players spent 1000s real dollars on enchants. Now, if most of them become garbage, they need to exchange them for bound enchants. They would have never spent real $$$ in the first place if they were bound. Cryptic needs to rethink this move.


    another factor: a ton of players need to exchange their "recovery" enchantments for something meaningful. To say those players either need to sell those runes on the market for a big loss (accuracy now), or bind forever what they purchased, is gonna not be a wound that heals.

    another factor: Thousands of players have already dumped their top-end enchantments onto the market and exchanged them for HAMSTER enchantments like Silver, knowing they can exchange it for any single stat enchantment. Cant undo that forced bind without taking a huge $$$ loss.

    another factor: The bound enchantment or two which Cryptic is afraid of turning "unbound" are minimal and do not warrant totally messing up everyone's wallets/investments. As far as I'm concerned... I'll buy those enchantments for them to use... just leave mine alone.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • baeyornbaeyorn Posts: 146Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Ok, this is a generalized comment..

    Why do we get level-up messages about feat points gained and power points gained when both have been removed from the game?

    Reason I asked is that I level up a new character of the class I like to play, on preview to get the feel of the class.

    Every time I hit a new level, the level-up window says x feat points gained and y power points gained. Why when we don't even have them any more?

    It would be much nicer to drop a bit of rough AD, a low level enchant/rune stone, or a few refinement points in place of the missing feat and power points.

    Seems to be a bit of a non-sequitor to me.

    =)

    B)
  • mongol69mongol69 Posts: 257Member Arc User
    edited April 1
    I don't even know where to start with bta news. All the work put into maxing out 4 toons and progress on alts is just wrenching to see lost. Especially on dc and op.

    Having to buy/trade or make 6x runestones plus assasins enchants, etc. per toon, with how absolutely trashed market is and will be with everyone in the same scamble to offload an average of 5 to 6 enchants minimum per toon, its just....wow. That will magnify issues massively. Binding locks enchants so in future mods new gear, changes or whatnot requires more enchants all together to further min/max.

    The amount of time and money put into everything just washed away. If this happens once, then its open season for this tactic or similar reoccurring. This is a cause for a huge loss of faith.

    The thought of doing this to over 120 r14s on main 4 toons, plus 4 alts with r13 to r11s. Coupled with investment loss in over 30 leg companions like archons and leg mounts like snails so 4 of my 6 bound leg mounts become worthless.

    I understand things change, but how this has all been sprung on us suddenly and implementation is just astounding and extremely disappointing.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,941Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    another factor: a ton of players need to exchange their "recovery" enchantments for something meaningful.

    To be fair, Accuracy (what silvery enchants give now) is not a "meaningless" stat - sure, it is not a primary concern, but you do need that stat, so you can use the silvery enchants to provide it and arrange your gear so you do not go over the cap on that stat.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,598Member Arc User

    It works that people that don’t use trade channel still have a venue for swapping enchants if they need to do so.



    While also stopping speculators from profiting from the change.



    Compare the cost of Training Runestones to others at the moment for example.

    no one can profit from it. there are a couple clear winners for mod 16 if everyone trades for that it's going to sink the market for the good stuff and make it much cheaper for everyone.
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  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,484Member Arc User
    edited April 2
    If they can find a way round having a constantly active Enchant Exchange then they should try to find a way to keep all Enchants apart from specials like the Jubilee 14 and the Heart Of Fire unbound.

    The issue I presume they have with the exchange is the potential for people to just keep swapping. If that's not the case, (I haven't been on Preview since the latest patch.) then I don;t see the problem with unbound. But if people can keep swapping stuff, then they have a decision to make. The exchange needs to stay open and active long enough so that, if Mod 16 IS successful at bringing back dormant players, they have the same facility to exchange old enchants as current players. The thing is, they will come back through word of mouth, and that will happen over months. So the exchange will need to remain active for quite a while.
    So maybe have a window from when you first log a character in to Mod 16 and the vendor saying "That's enough, no more exchange for you." Or maybe some sort of voucher system, (similar to how assets changed in the Professions system) that lets you trade X number of stones, so that they don't have to HAMSTER about sticking flags on enchants so you end up with loads of different versions of the same stone.

    You shouldn't, for example, be able to BUY an Enchant or Runestone after M16 drops, and then exchange it for something better. It needs to be controlled and not a free for all.

    ETA: AND... you shouldn't be able to stockpile loads of cheap stuff pre Mod 16 just to exchange it for better stuff when the Mod drops. The exchange should be to help players keep the Enchants/Runestones they have been USING viable for their characters, not let shady dealers make a killing...

    But.
    However they sort it, having perpetually bound Enchantments is a bad idea. Even Bound to Account.
    Post edited by mordekai#1901 on
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 2
    This is a fairly crazy suggestion at this point in time, but...

    Why not rework the campaign flow for the game at this time?

    Suggested campaign flow:

    Level 1-50 would become the original campaign (and the Seer campaign)
    Level 51-60 would be Sharandar and Dread Ring
    At this point you have a complete story culminating in the defeat of Valindra in VT.

    Level 61-70 would be Elemental Evil and Maze Engine (+ Underdark)
    This is essentially 2 complete stories.

    Level 71-80 would be Aquisitions Inc and Undermountain as these are linked stories anyway.

    All remaining campaigns would then open at level 80 and exist there.
    All Epic dungeons would be Level 80.

    This flow does a few things:
    1) it would provide Players with distinct clear stories on the way to level 80 (this is still an RPG right?)
    2) it would give PCs access to a number of boons on their way to level 80 so that characters are more robust with granted gear.
    3) it would reduce the amount of content that needs to be “scaled” in real time (though obviously increases what needs to be scaled before launch)
    4) It creates a diverse range of things for new players to do when they hit 80 that is level appropriate, without the problems caused by scaling (I’m level 80, why do I suck in this level 70 zone?).
    5) It allows an overhaul of the gear in the game, instead of essentially 100% of existing gear becoming immediately redundant on the 23rd.
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    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    This is a fairly crazy suggestion at this point in time, but...

    Why not rework the campaign flow for the game at this time?

    Suggested campaign flow:

    Level 1-50 would become the original campaign (and the Seer campaign)
    Level 51-60 would be Sharandar and Dread Ring
    At this point you have a complete story culminating in the defeat of Valindra in VT.

    Level 61-70 would be Elemental Evil and Maze Engine (+ Underdark)
    This is essentially 2 complete stories.

    Level 71-80 would be Aquisitions Inc and Undermountain as these are linked stories anyway.

    All remaining campaigns would then open at level 80 and exist there.
    All Epic dungeons would be Level 80.

    This flow does a few things:
    1) it would provide Players with distinct clear stories on the way to level 80 (this is still an RPG right?)
    2) it would give PCs access to a number of boons on their way to level 80 so that characters are more robust with granted gear.
    3) it would reduce the amount of content that needs to be “scaled” in real time (though obviously increases what needs to be scaled before launch)
    4) It creates a diverse range of things for new players to do when they hit 80 that is level appropriate, without the problems caused by scaling (I’m level 80, why do I suck in this level 70 zone?).
    5) It allows an overhaul of the gear in the game, instead of essentially 100% of existing gear becoming immediately redundant on the 23rd.

    The only issue is what to do with group content. Because most players hit the level cap and then that's where they are, it'd be difficult for players to help out lower level characters if they're not being downscaled.

    Of course, I'd prefer if the lower level dungeons were solo dungeons anyway.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 2
    You get scaled for RLQ now, fix that scaling to be effective and you have that solved.

    There is no real “group content” outside Epic Dungeons, Hunts and Expeditions - all of which would be level 80 under my suggestion.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    You get scaled for RLQ now, fix that scaling to be effective and you have that solved.

    There is no real “group content” outside Epic Dungeons, Hunts and Expeditions - all of which would be level 80 under my suggestion.

    I thought the goal was to AVOID level scaling. RLQ scaling isn't any better than any other kind of scaling!
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User

    You get scaled for RLQ now, fix that scaling to be effective and you have that solved.

    There is no real “group content” outside Epic Dungeons, Hunts and Expeditions - all of which would be level 80 under my suggestion.

    I thought the goal was to AVOID level scaling. RLQ scaling isn't any better than any other kind of scaling!
    “Reduce the amount”, basically only RLQ.

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    You get scaled for RLQ now, fix that scaling to be effective and you have that solved.

    There is no real “group content” outside Epic Dungeons, Hunts and Expeditions - all of which would be level 80 under my suggestion.

    I thought the goal was to AVOID level scaling. RLQ scaling isn't any better than any other kind of scaling!
    “Reduce the amount”, basically only RLQ.

    Well you'd have to put some of the Underdark stuff into RLQ then. Imagine a level 30 character queuing for Demogorgon or Tiamat!
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    You cannot RLQ into content you haven’t unlocked right now on Live.
    You could actually add the missing skirmishes from the levelling zones to RLQ as well to significantly increase the content in that part of the game.

    Also Tiamat would be Level 80 content under the suggestion, just Epic.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    You cannot RLQ into content you haven’t unlocked right now on Live.
    You could actually add the missing skirmishes from the levelling zones to RLQ as well to significantly increase the content in that part of the game.

    Also Tiamat would be Level 80 content under the suggestion, just Epic.

    Oh, well there you go. Sounds good, have a complete proposal on my desk by Monday.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User

    You cannot RLQ into content you haven’t unlocked right now on Live.
    You could actually add the missing skirmishes from the levelling zones to RLQ as well to significantly increase the content in that part of the game.

    Also Tiamat would be Level 80 content under the suggestion, just Epic.

    Oh, well there you go. Sounds good, have a complete proposal on my desk by Monday.
    I’m amused to find you have a similar effective idea in the Rewards thread, wrt making the old campaigns leveling zones that are non-repeatable. Also all that has to happen for SHs is move the currency to the level 80 repeatable zones (among other solutions).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 172Member Arc User
    Son of a. I specifically stated my fears that this would become a wallet squeeze a few weeks ago and now i am paranoid that i gave them ideas.
    I have had so much fun with this title that i am reluctant to leave but there is a voice growing louder and louder in the back of my mind telling me this might become an unacceptable exploitative game and that i should cut my losses.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 172Member Arc User
    Bug. Enchantment excahnge vendor gives me nothing upon sale of enchantments. I am not receiving replacement items at all.

    What should i be receiving?
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • miotest#5683 miotest Posts: 28Member Arc User
    I thought I'd be able to invite friends to play. Now I wouldn't even invite my enemies. Everyone who has common sense must have realized that this is no longer a balance between player satisfaction and reasonable profit. That's all I can say, and I'm deprived of any illusions I had about NV.
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