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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,474Member Arc User
    Don't look at the 1000:1 change in isolation. Lowering mob's counter stats means that weaker characters will be stronger. It is the people optimizing, maxing stats that get negatively affected by this change. Under the old system, a massive number of points had to be invested in Critical Strike before you would even see a 1% chance to crit. With yesterday's changes, a much lower investment will be required to achieve a chance to crit. It is the people who would have has their chance at or close to 50% who got nerfed.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • silence1xsilence1x Posts: 1,503Member Arc User

    it would be a real shame to alienate a large chunk of the player base because

    you decided to cater to the 5% instead of the 95%. Just a thought.

    I aim to misbehave
  • mwkmwk Posts: 173Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Rogue feats, daily powers, and encounters are wrong. Wrong set paragons with classes, that's why it's a mess! And for living worth of the gameplay, bring back recovery, but only in gear stats, not enchantments; same with lifesteal.

    Making everyone equal is never the answer and it will never be! Making it close is better. Deflect, defense, lifesteal, more hit points or whatever on gear itself as extra stat.

    Also the ability scores don't make sense any more. This game is an absolute mess still so far by how everything is executed. I have hope, but not anymore, because the progess is still going in wrong direction since release of preview.

    Giving feedback starting a game from stratch is basically causing a mess! Keep the fundamentals of the old and add improvements is the answer. Discussing the weaknesses of areas now, rather than starting from scratch. I'm kinda impressed, but I feel forced to change the way I play. Using at-wills mostly is boring and doesn't work effectively.

    If this game would just forget paragons, the game would have more variety. I don't know what else for statements. I'm just not liking the results.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 185Member Arc User

    @noworries#8859 @asterdahl I have been one of the biggest optimists for this new mod up until this point (ask anyone in my alliance), but as of yesterday I'm having a very difficult time having any optimism.

    between a release announcement date when there are still major issues that have not been fixed or preview tested for multiple classes, entire paragon paths for classes that are useless, and a change to the stat mechanics that looks to be a direct response to a very small handful of elite "end gamer's" ability to do content with less than full groups, I'm feeling a sense of impending dread. As a user and customer I just don't see how this can be ready for a April 23 launch.

    Let's use the Ranger as exhibit A (could do several other classes too, but lets keep it simple)... The Ranger has had all of about 1 weeks worth of "fixes" and those have been minor, and actually broke even more. So lets pretend that all of the outstanding issues get fixed on preview this week, any new bugs or issues created need to be tested, recorded and addressed.. this is an iterative process that can take several cycles to complete, cycles we no longer have.

    Point 2: The vast majority of people that play this game are not "professionals" like sharpedge, or youtube content contributors. I will freely admit I'm probably one of those "pro's" as I can and have soloed content all the way up to cradle of the death god in the current system with various classes... however the majority of the people in my alliance still struggle to complete content as "Easy" as FBI, and many have all but given up on k-team challenges Castle Never or greater... In the quest to make content more challenging for people like me, that older content will now go from challenging, to impossible for a huge swath of the player community.

    Part of the problem is that serious players are typically the most likely to actually test builds, bugs and optimize before go live, we are more likely to release videos on youtube ranting about broken things, or showing off a 2 person FBI run, we are more likely to be part of the streaming community showing how "easy" the game can be... but we still represent a very small portion of the Live server player community. The majority of the active player base struggles in current end game content, plays maybe 1 -2 hours a day, and is nowhere close to having end game gear or enchantments.. These players will play maybe 1-3 dungeons are part of the daily fun routine, then go spend time with their families... they don't have the time nor the will to sink that same time into 1 dungeon that may or may not be a success. I have convinced several people that fit this group to come into the preview server, by in large they have found this new mod to be so difficult, that many of them are seriously considering leaving the game entirely...

    Without some major communication improvements in the next few weeks, and a lot of outstanding bug fix work you are going to lose a lot of active players when mod 16 drops. Mod 16 has a lot of promise with many changes that will benefit the community, and many more changes that have been needed for a long time, it would be a real shame to alienate a large chunk of the player base because effort fizzled in the last mile of the marathon resulting in the release of a clearly unfinished product tainted by a small number of players.

    ^
    THIS!

    this is a very well articulated summary of the situation. I may often harp on player choice and lack of build versatility but those concerns are rooted in my ability to play and meet the challenges of the game. A great power selection means i can adapt to a situation by switching out my tray, feats that let me customize my play-style let me make the most of the rather middling gear i have.

    with the changes in Mod16 many of the adventures in the game leading up to level 70 would have been nigh impossible with the restrictions the new mod adds.

    i don't play for hours and hours, i don't have freinds that play the game still, i am without a guild. It is just me and a moderate understanding of the system and how to use it for situational versatility. I am not a superstar, i am not a pro, i am casual solo. If a pro like above can see my plight, i am hoping you can as well.

    Let us enjoy the game.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • littledanger#4115 littledanger Posts: 65Member Arc User
    Point 2: The vast majority of people that play this game are not "professionals" like sharpedge, or youtube content contributors. I will freely admit I'm probably one of those "pro's" as I can and have soloed content all the way up to cradle of the death god in the current system with various classes... however the majority of the people in my alliance still struggle to complete content as "Easy" as FBI, and many have all but given up on k-team challenges Castle Never or greater... In the quest to make content more challenging for people like me, that older content will now go from challenging, to impossible for a huge swath of the player community.

    This is oh so true! I have a 19K DC and several other toons over 18K. I have been in TLO on Xbox, I have don2 super duper speed runs and all that and have - but I still public q all the time and I'm here to tell you the vast majority of the player base struggles with content from FBI and higher. The upcoming changes are going to be devastating.
  • arazith07arazith07 Posts: 438Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Doing content slower, doesn't mean it's going to be harder. The new dungeon, once the bugs are sorted is actually fairly easy compared to what we are used to. The main hurtle is getting used to tanking and healing and not standing in red. And before anyone talks about monsters that are one shotting, like the vamps in Vanrakdoom, that isn't WAI and *should* be fixed by the time it goes live. Expeditions are a great source of gear and will work to close that gap we are seeing now between BiS and fresh players. The main thing veterans will have over new players are boons, enchants, mounts, and companions. So I am going to have to disagree that upcoming changes are going to make things impossible.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 252Member Arc User
    Gear availability isn't the problem with pugs. It's them having the RIGHT gear, the RIGHT stats, the RIGHT powers, and not being downright useless. That gap is getting bigger, not smaller.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User

    Gear availability isn't the problem with pugs. It's them having the RIGHT gear, the RIGHT stats, the RIGHT powers, and not being downright useless. That gap is getting bigger, not smaller.

    The changes in how gear and classes work basically eliminates everything but player skill.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,945Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 2019

    This new game isn't even really fun...

    Well, that's very much a matter of opinion. The current game (on Live) has a couple of aspects that are "not fun" for some people, but do get "fixed" in Mod 16.
    • If you are a skilled BiS player, the game doesn't really present you with a real challenge. You can steamroll through everything, even some content that is meant for a 5-man group. Some find that fun, but for others it's just boring. Mod 16 changes that. Combat takes (much) longer, you cannot gather up dozens of trash mobs and stand in a red circle while you blast them into oblivion. You actually need to play slower, more carefully...and think/plan a bit more. There are (presumably) some people that find that fun.
    • If you are a brand-new player who had just reached max level, you faced a long uphill struggle before you were really ready for the "end game". You had to collect a lot of Power points to get all your powers to max rank and you had to do a number of campaigns to get those valuable boons. You also had to learn how to play your class, and how to make an effective build. This is quite a bit of work and if you have the mentality of an impatient 11-year old, the game just wasn't fun because of this. Mod 16 changes this too. Power points are gone, boons and feats are less relevant than they used to be, and there is no need to work out a good build because different choices don't really make much of a difference. All you need to do is to borrow your parents' credit card, buy some Zen/AD and you are all set. I am sure there are players who will find this change really fun.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • miotest#5683 miotest Posts: 28Member Arc User
    System creators and designers: listen to yourself, read what you write yourself ... I don't have to be very intelligent to understand that you don't speak straight. Gameplay and trust is why we spend some money in the game. Both are connected and one does not work without the other. Many players have returned feedback in confidence that they are involved in something that makes sense and feel themselves a small part of the team.
    This step - another 1000: 1 downgrading, further downgrading ratings over other opposition statistics, etc. Now, after a few weeks to come up with such a change, let's say - total reboot and change, it'll be hard for newcomers to handle and endplayers don't believe it. A successful product differs from others by offering customers something different than what other competing products offer. You've had that right now - but in my opinion you're going the way to make neverwinter fit among the average MMO products.

    But it goes even further ... the system is so transparent that we see a lot of tools that will ruin all players' investments and further depreciate ... and there are so many implementations there that can no longer be ignored and the purpose arguments cannot be ignored.

    As a business owner, I can imagine what happens to the average product subsequently and as a business owner I can imagine what happens if I lose customer confidence - it's a chain reaction. You should quickly make a statement where you explain transparently how the new game actually plays ... I think it's based on the fact that it will continue as before. However, I am on xbox and over the past year we have almost broken up the alliance, leaving only the biggest fans who are tired of the game context. Publish dungeon runs have almost disappeared, and if anyone has to run it, only those fans will not do it and you will not lose your confidence.
    The new MOD looked very playable recently, and the rest of the elite, who came back in anticipation of the change, was ready to educate other new players. Now it seems that the willingness of all these dedicated players and fans is of no value and everything goes according to a pre-planned plan - which I think is too ambitious. I knew why I play Neverwinter .... now I ask what do you offer me in MOD 16 as a customer who will pay extra? Any game manual? Possibility to be 0.5% better than others? I don't see anything like that ... I see just a restart of everything and no one has the courage to tell the community straight.

    The new MOD looked very playable If I didn't know the essence of the thing so that it came to me as an unwanted sabotage in an effort to gain control over the game.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    adinosii said:


    • If you are a skilled BiS player, the game doesn't really present you with a real challenge. You can steamroll through everything, even some content that is meant for a 5-man group. Some find that fun, but for others it's just boring. Mod 16 changes that. Combat takes (much) longer, you cannot gather up dozens of trash mobs and stand in a red circle while you blast them into oblivion. You actually need to play slower, more carefully...and think/plan a bit more. There are (presumably) some people that find that fun.
    Well I don't find having to put no consideration at all into what you are doing that interesting.

    So I must be one of those horrible people that like to think and plan a bit more before doing content.

    And with my end game ready Warlock and Paladin, the only areas that have been hard in this mod are bugged or multiplayer content (and much of that is still solo content for the Paladin, but we will see after the patch on the 29th).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 374Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    adinosii said:


    If you are a brand-new player who had just reached max level, you faced a long uphill struggle before you were really ready for the "end game". You had to collect a lot of Power points to get all your powers to max rank and you had to do a number of campaigns to get those valuable boons. You also had to learn how to play your class, and how to make an effective build. This is quite a bit of work and if you have the mentality of an impatient 11-year old, the game just wasn't fun because of this. Mod 16 changes this too. Power points are gone, boons and feats are less relevant than they used to be, and there is no need to work out a good build because different choices don't really make much of a difference. All you need to do is to borrow your parents' credit card, buy some Zen/AD and you are all set. I am sure there are players who will find this change really fun.

    Actually you already can buy yourself a lot on live. Campaigns - no problem except last 1 or 2. Power points - well those were recently removed form ZEN store, but wont be needed soon (but are awarded better for level up atm in live) - but there was option to buy as much as you needed. And rest of zen converted to AD and you gona be best in slot.

    Only difference I see with MOD 16 is that those campaign bundles will convert to actually a boon points but this is not really worth mentioning.
    Still you wont be able to buy pvp boons, and few of BtC or BtA and recently introduced "limited event items"
    AND skill how to play - so pretty much same as it is now on live.

    BTW with current prices about 20-30k ZEN and 70-80KK AD and you have any toon BIS in less that 1 hour. And since it can made any toon only "on par" with normal players toons I dont mind - people doing this keep this game running. Still trying that require a lot of real money so its not a path many will follow.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,945Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    gripnir78 said:


    BTW with current prices about 20-30k ZEN and 70-80KK AD and you have any toon BIS in less that 1 hour. And since it can made any toon only "on par" with normal players toons I dont mind - people doing this keep this game running. Still trying that require a lot of real money so its not a path many will follow.

    Correct. What worries me however, is the feeling that Mod 16 is specifically being designed to appeal primarily to that crowd. Then again, it might be necessary - they might have decided they need a big influx of "big spenders" to keep the lights on.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 374Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    System creators and designers: listen to yourself, read what you write yourself ... I don't have to be very intelligent to understand that you don't speak straight. Gameplay and trust is why we spend some money in the game. Both are connected and one does not work without the other. Many players have returned feedback in confidence that they are involved in something that makes sense and feel themselves a small part of the team.
    This step - another 1000: 1 downgrading, further downgrading ratings over other opposition statistics, etc. Now, after a few weeks to come up with such a change, let's say - total reboot and change, it'll be hard for newcomers to handle and endplayers don't believe it. A successful product differs from others by offering customers something different than what other competing products offer. You've had that right now - but in my opinion you're going the way to make neverwinter fit among the average MMO products.

    But it goes even further ... the system is so transparent that we see a lot of tools that will ruin all players' investments and further depreciate ... and there are so many implementations there that can no longer be ignored and the purpose arguments cannot be ignored.

    As a business owner, I can imagine what happens to the average product subsequently and as a business owner I can imagine what happens if I lose customer confidence - it's a chain reaction. You should quickly make a statement where you explain transparently how the new game actually plays ... I think it's based on the fact that it will continue as before. However, I am on xbox and over the past year we have almost broken up the alliance, leaving only the biggest fans who are tired of the game context. Publish dungeon runs have almost disappeared, and if anyone has to run it, only those fans will not do it and you will not lose your confidence.
    The new MOD looked very playable recently, and the rest of the elite, who came back in anticipation of the change, was ready to educate other new players. Now it seems that the willingness of all these dedicated players and fans is of no value and everything goes according to a pre-planned plan - which I think is too ambitious. I knew why I play Neverwinter .... now I ask what do you offer me in MOD 16 as a customer who will pay extra? Any game manual? Possibility to be 0.5% better than others? I don't see anything like that ... I see just a restart of everything and no one has the courage to tell the community straight.

    The new MOD looked very playable If I didn't know the essence of the thing so that it came to me as an unwanted sabotage in an effort to gain control over the game.

    Me and few of my guildies had prepared the short "manual for MOD 16" for my entire alliance. That was made out of devs publications, forum infos and personal testing. Now, I made that to keep my man informed and assured that guild/alliance is holding and we will do what we can to prepare them for Neverwinter 2.0 how I call that new mod. It took some time and effort to make such manual. Now this, and my similar experience as you - that after last pach on test - I started to fell at home/comfortable with a new MOD, now is endangered.

    Yes, I am ready and I will rework manual once again. And belive me or not- I was optimistic creating its original version. Now with 1000:1 ratio and its consequnces I already described in stats change thread - I am not so optymistic any more.

    @noworries#8859 @asterdahl I belive switching to 1000:1% ratio is a breaking point of entire game composition - keep it in mind, as a future of this game depends on how you handle that issue
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 374Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    adinosii said:

    gripnir78 said:


    BTW with current prices about 20-30k ZEN and 70-80KK AD and you have any toon BIS in less that 1 hour. And since it can made any toon only "on par" with normal players toons I dont mind - people doing this keep this game running. Still trying that require a lot of real money so its not a path many will follow.

    Correct. What worries me however, is the feeling that Mod 16 is specifically being designed to appeal primarily to that crowd. Then again, it might be necessary - they might have decided they need a big influx of "big spenders" to keep the lights on.
    Not likely....not that they dont like taking money...but the model itself is not changing a lot - as I described above there is no difference.

    New mod will equalize toons - sure - any 1 able to get to 80 will have "option" to buy new gear - but those gona be tharmalune/ZEN items - so in theory a cheap and easy to obtain - if one have ZENs or enaugh of tharamlunes - and that may not alway be a case. Not everyone here are long times here with sacks full of both mentioned currencies - most of pplayers are not.
    Difference in enchantments and mounts even ability to suddenly upgrde new bunch of companions will still make a difference between veteran and new player.
    Spenders ability to fill that gap with real money remains the same in my opinion.

    The only possibility to make this game more wallet warriors friendly is actually a 1000:1 change.
    In reality it devaluates a lot of stuff in game.
    IF it will impact a prices of enchantments and legendary mounts it may lead to a "get more bang for your bucks" situation, witch always encourage a spenders.
  • midental#5256 midental Posts: 110Member Arc User
    I have a question. I often hear on the forums that with MOD16 the characters will all be the same. In fact, looking at the changes for sure it will be like this but ..... today is not the same thing? All the GFDPS have in practice the same build the same ACDCs and this is true for all classes. As it is true that as soon as you inspect a character and is not "in the standards" you shout "bad build". I honestly don't think that with the MOD16 things will change a lot ..... or maybe it will be completely changed at first but after a short time the individual BUILDs will be the new standards and we will start again to maximize the runs as we do today.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 252Member Arc User
    The difference is that while there are BIS builds currently, there are also other builds. They aren't optimal, but lots of people do fun stuff and really enjoy turning all those options into something playable. Yes, lots of new players have "bad builds" because BIS isn't always obvious, but there are lots of nonBIS builds that are pretty cool. My friends and I try out stupid stuff just for fun a lot. Can we turn a templock into a tank with no DC for T9, even holding aggro? Can we use a ranger for our only buffs and heals in kteam FBI? Stuff like that. That's what people are complaining about losing. It's not that we didn't have BIS builds already; it's that a BIS build is a choice.
  • midental#5256 midental Posts: 110Member Arc User
    ok i understand what you mean, but you understand that it doesn't make much sense to be free to be able to do a BUILD that is not optimal .... what's the point? I often see DPS around with the ORCUS artifact as main ...... NO SENSE .... so in the end, and I speak above all for endgamers, the builds for the various classes will always be the usual ones; it is useless to go around it and wave (I am not talking about you directly) the flag of freedom of choice when the choice is clearly wrong in my opinion does not make sense. You can have fun in many ways and in many situations but this does not prevent you from having a character that is structured in the right way. If you want the freedom to be able to chain the powers to exploit bugs and be able to maximize then it's another matter but it's not about having a properly built character.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 374Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 2019

    I have a question. I often hear on the forums that with MOD16 the characters will all be the same. In fact, looking at the changes for sure it will be like this but ..... today is not the same thing? All the GFDPS have in practice the same build the same ACDCs and this is true for all classes. As it is true that as soon as you inspect a character and is not "in the standards" you shout "bad build". I honestly don't think that with the MOD16 things will change a lot ..... or maybe it will be completely changed at first but after a short time the individual BUILDs will be the new standards and we will start again to maximize the runs as we do today.

    You are correct. in general :D
    The thing is there are always .....most popular builds. GF is perfect example - one of builds was said to be best and since then it became more and more popular, and because it was so popular it was considered "the best".
    In fact that build was, well.... decent, just decent in compare what you actually was able to do on end game GF.

    And because general state of the game - such popular builds were in fact more then enaugh to play a game on decent level. If a 5 man end gamecontent could have been completed with just 1 player - it speak for itself. There was simply no need to search and try new ways to build your toons. There was "best" build for every class and that was just adjusted/reworked if necessary.

    In generall - in every game there are always - from mathematical point of view "best paths" to follow, and you can find players spending days to find those. And if you would be able to fulfill such builds expectations - like gear etc and if you are ready to abandon your personal playstyle then you should be able to duplicate such results.
    Its just a matter of time untill those vanilla builds gona be found when MOD 16 will hit live.
    And yes - due to current mechanics it will be faster than before.
  • sundancewanderingwolfsundancewanderingwolf Posts: 65Member Arc User
    The armor you buy with Seals of the Crown from Castle Ravenloft is still unable to be used to transmute (other than the chest piece). I really hope this is fixed by Mod 16 release because I really LOVE the CR armors
  • sundancewanderingwolfsundancewanderingwolf Posts: 65Member Arc User
    Also the guild hall is still very very broken... Teir 1 Heroics should all be just normal easy mobs however Lake Supply Woes and Dock Supply Woes, as well as any orcish type creature spawn spots on the map are all epic dungeon level = level to a Boss Gold Demonic Encounter. Please fix this as well before Mod 16 release.
    It seems to be a coding issue with anything related to Orc/witches/thayans etc... in the guild hall.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 3,166Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    pitshade said:

    Don't look at the 1000:1 change in isolation. Lowering mob's counter stats means that weaker characters will be stronger. It is the people optimizing, maxing stats that get negatively affected by this change. Under the old system, a massive number of points had to be invested in Critical Strike before you would even see a 1% chance to crit. With yesterday's changes, a much lower investment will be required to achieve a chance to crit. It is the people who would have has their chance at or close to 50% who got nerfed.


    The devs stated that our damage is suppose to be split with 1/5 coming from at wills, 3/5 from encounters (or 1/5 for each encounter) and finally 1/5 from dailies, so over a 1 minute battle that is how damage is suppose to divided up. Not sure if the increase to at will damage changed this breakout. If it didn't, than good. If it did than what is the new breakout for damage?

    I don't know if the code for enemies are static or not, and I'm pretty sure most of the players base does not know the exact stats for enemies. I'm mostly curious about enemies defense resistance stat than anything else. Are enemies DR based on their defense like our DR or is the enemies DR stat static based zones? If the stat is static than the new cap on defense ignore will impact us as we get into tougher zones.

    Prior to the latest patch for mod 16 we could achieve 100% defense ignore now we are capped at 50%. Using mod 15 Chult and Barovia zones as an example enemies in those zones had roughly 75% defense resistance. If that is a static stat and stays in play we are now going to take a damage loss of 25% in those zones. This will make our time completing content take longer. Dungeons will take longer to complete when enemies have DR that exceed 50%.

    What I would like to know is how DR is implemented for enemies in the game. Is is static and determined by zone or is it based on the enemies defense and uses the same 1000:1 from the latest patch? If the enemies DR static, will the devs adjust it or leave them as is?

    As for the update to stats, it was comments by testers in the forums on how easy it was to achieve near max stats for almost all the offensive stats. IMO it is those comments are why the devs made change from 500:1 to 1000:1.

    This change makes 3 and 2 stat enchantments less attractive because now you have to really consider your choices moving forward for stats do to the higher threshold to achieve a 1% increase.

    With Path of Exile out on PS4 now, Anthem still taking my time here and there, and NWO looking less and less fun, engaging, and rewarding MMO to play I can see myself leaving now moreso than with the original mod 16 announcement.

    The more I dive into mod 16 the more I think this update is an going to be an EPIC FAILURE.






  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Posts: 295Member Arc User
    edited March 2019

    pitshade said:

    Don't look at the 1000:1 change in isolation. Lowering mob's counter stats means that weaker characters will be stronger. It is the people optimizing, maxing stats that get negatively affected by this change. Under the old system, a massive number of points had to be invested in Critical Strike before you would even see a 1% chance to crit. With yesterday's changes, a much lower investment will be required to achieve a chance to crit. It is the people who would have has their chance at or close to 50% who got nerfed.


    The devs stated that our damage is suppose to be split with 1/5 coming from at wills, 3/5 from encounters (or 1/5 for each encounter) and finally 1/5 from dailies, so over a 1 minute battle that is how damage is suppose to divided up. Not sure if the increase to at will damage changed this breakout. If it didn't, than good. If it did than what is the new breakout for damage?

    I don't know if the code for enemies are static or not, and I'm pretty sure most of the players base does not know the exact stats for enemies. I'm mostly curious about enemies defense resistance stat than anything else. Are enemies DR based on their defense like our DR or is the enemies DR stat static based zones? If the stat is static than the new cap on defense ignore will impact us as we get into tougher zones.

    Prior to the latest patch for mod 16 we could achieve 100% defense ignore now we are capped at 50%. Using mod 15 Chult and Barovia zones as an example enemies in those zones had roughly 75% defense resistance. If that is a static stat and stays in play we are now going to take a damage loss of 25% in those zones. This will make our time completing content take longer. Dungeons will take longer to complete when enemies have DR that exceed 50%.

    What I would like to know is how DR is implemented for enemies in the game. Is is static and determined by zone or is it based on the enemies defense and uses the same 1000:1 from the latest patch? If the enemies DR static, will the devs adjust it or leave them as is?




    That's a fair question. I'd imagine the devs wouldn't engineer it such that someone who wanted to gear such that they always did full damage couldn't do so, but it'd be nice to have confirmation.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 3,166Member Arc User
    adinosii said:

    This new game isn't even really fun...

    Well, that's very much a matter of opinion. The current game (on Live) has a couple of aspects that are "not fun" for some people, but do get "fixed" in Mod 16.
    • If you are a skilled BiS player, the game doesn't really present you with a real challenge. You can steamroll through everything, even some content that is meant for a 5-man group. Some find that fun, but for others it's just boring. Mod 16 changes that. Combat takes (much) longer, you cannot gather up dozens of trash mobs and stand in a red circle while you blast them into oblivion. You actually need to play slower, more carefully...and think/plan a bit more. There are (presumably) some people that find that fun.

    • If you are a brand-new player who had just reached max level, you faced a long uphill struggle before you were really ready for the "end game". You had to collect a lot of Power points to get all your powers to max rank and you had to do a number of campaigns to get those valuable boons. You also had to learn how to play your class, and how to make an effective build. This is quite a bit of work and if you have the mentality of an impatient 11-year old, the game just wasn't fun because of this. Mod 16 changes this too. Power points are gone, boons and feats are less relevant than they used to be, and there is no need to work out a good build because different choices don't really make much of a difference. All you need to do is to borrow your parents' credit card, buy some Zen/AD and you are all set. I am sure there are players who will find this change really fun.
    I think the biggest issue I have is this; currently combat is short and engaging and that makes it fun. I don't want to spend 1-2 minutes on a simple set of adds. Given enemies sight awareness in this game, if I move just a hair some days I end up pulling more enemies on top of me. With encounters having longer cool downs and combat now taking longer moving ever so like I may now do can result in what should have been a 1 minute to a much longer battle wasting my time in a zone causing me frustration, angers, disappointment, etc... these feeling I just listed will result in players getting annoyed and quitting.

    If the goal of mod 16 is to get rid of any casual gamer from NWO it will succeed in that regard. Players who don't have the time to grind out one mission today that may take 5-10 minutes won't have the time to do that exact same mission that will take 30 minutes. MMO are a grind NWO already had a grind to it but this update and slowing down combat takes it to a new level that most players won't accept and will quit.

    As for power points that could have been an easy fix; you hit 70 and you get everything without any effort. No need to acquire any PP after 70. Devs could have added that into the game very easily.

    As for builds; I have talked about this to no end; I like options for my character build and mod 16 takes those away from me as a player. Something I actually paid to have on my CW and DC. So my loadouts I PAID to have become irrelevant and worthless to me as a consumer.

    As for having proper builds; look up on youtube, mmominds, etc... any good MMO will allow players to have various builds, even bad ones. Its up to the player to figure it out, not the devs to make it so simple that any pet that pushes a button on a controller or keyboard can create a build. The new setup is lame and for players who can't even read.

    The only thing I like with mod 16 is the change to companions and I was against that until I actually saw it in action; and that is the only reason why I'm considering playing mod 16 ATM.

  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,474Member Arc User
    Defense Ignored/Armor Penetration is not capped. Damage "Ignored" is capped. It was capped at 80% (post mitigation) and now that cap is being lowered to 50.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,474Member Arc User
    In the example of level 70 mobs that noworries gave, mobs have 57k:

    "They will have 57,000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike. "

    So you take that 57k and subtract your Armor Penetration stat. Divide the difference by 1000. Subtract that number from 100. This is the percent of damage you deal, with 50% the minimum and 100% the maximum.

    100-((Def-ArmorPen)/1000)=%Damage dealt
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User

    I have a question. I often hear on the forums that with MOD16 the characters will all be the same. In fact, looking at the changes for sure it will be like this but ..... today is not the same thing? All the GFDPS have in practice the same build the same ACDCs and this is true for all classes. As it is true that as soon as you inspect a character and is not "in the standards" you shout "bad build". I honestly don't think that with the MOD16 things will change a lot ..... or maybe it will be completely changed at first but after a short time the individual BUILDs will be the new standards and we will start again to maximize the runs as we do today.

    Yes the BIS players will still work out the ideal combo of everything, that aspect of the game isn’t going away. What 16 changes (or aims to change) is how far off that you can go. In terms of gear and powers, this gap is much reduced, but there is still plenty of scope to create a big gap. The key element is that 5 random players are less likely to be unable to complete group content, and skill will matter more for that than just how good you are at following a guide.

    How good a job they do we will know in 3 weeks.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Posts: 183Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    pitshade said:

    In the example of level 70 mobs that noworries gave, mobs have 57k:



    "They will have 57,000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike. "



    So you take that 57k and subtract your Armor Penetration stat. Divide the difference by 1000. Subtract that number from 100. This is the percent of damage you deal, with 50% the minimum and 100% the maximum.



    100-((Def-ArmorPen)/1000)=%Damage dealt

    I think formula is more like: 100-min(80, min(50, max(0, (Def-ArmorPen)/1000))+buffs)=%Damage dealt

    And crit with deflect are multiplicands too.
  • arazith07arazith07 Posts: 438Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Let's assume you are fighting level 70 mobs since we have those numbers. 57,000 defense, and let's say you have 32,000 arpen. We have 57k-32k=25k. 25k/1000=25%. 100%-25%=75%. So when you strike an enemy, you are doing 75% of your potential damage (assuming you have enough accuracy and do not crit or have combat advantage). Any buffs to arpen should show on the character screen as you are attacking (easy to check when you are at dummies). Damage multipliers and damage from power, weapon enchants, weapons, ect are all factors in the potential damage that would be reduced if you don't have enough arpen to overcome defense (same would apply to acc/deflect)
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