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Official M16: Refinement

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  • douglasopferbeckdouglasopferbeck Posts: 42Member Arc User
    Not saying I like it, just that I understand the choice if they keep it that way.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 1
    Pretty sure the BtA is intentional....otherwise people could stock up on something like cheap Moderate Shadowclad/Eclipse enchants, and sell them for something worth a lot more - meaning a lot of profiteering/speculation and well, some players basically exploiting onther more naive ones.

    However, as for as regular enchants are concerned the price differences and profit potential is much, much smaller, so this is not really a concern there.

    So, my suggestion: For Armor/Weapon enchants, make the exchanged ones BtA. For regular enchants and runestones, leave them unbound.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    The exchanges are meant to BtA.

    There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.

    For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.

    Super duper lame man. SUPER lame. But oh well, that's life I suppose. Thanks for the response.
  • gweddrygweddry Posts: 175Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    The exchanges are meant to BtA.

    There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.

    For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.

    Yeah, and when a mod or two later, as usual, our newly bound enchants become useless, we are stuck. Great design.
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Posts: 434Member Arc User

    The exchanges are meant to BtA.

    There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.

    For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.

    BUG: Eldritch -> Bonding, the resulting Bonding Runestone is not bound
    Mount Insignia (Leeching or Vigor), the resulting insignia is not bound


    If you're going to do one, do them all, or don't do any
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    The exchanges are meant to BtA.

    There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.

    For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.

    BUG: Eldritch -> Bonding, the resulting Bonding Runestone is not bound
    Mount Insignia (Leeching or Vigor), the resulting insignia is not bound


    If you're going to do one, do them all, or don't do any
    Nah. ELDRITCH isn't just depreciated, it's out right eliminated in usefulness. Same for the Leeching/Vigor insignias.

    If you're trading, say, a Silvery, it's because you don't like accuracy when you wanted recovery.

    If you're trading Eldritch, it's because it literally does nothing now.

    There's few enough bound eldritch enchantments in the game that there's not much exploit range to begin with.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    Nah. ELDRITCH isn't just depreciated, it's out right eliminated in usefulness. Same for the Leeching/Vigor insignias.

    If you're trading, say, a Silvery, it's because you don't like accuracy when you wanted recovery.

    If you're trading Eldritch, it's because it literally does nothing now.

    There's few enough bound eldritch enchantments in the game that there's not much exploit range to begin with.

    Exactly. You cannot exchange those with other players because nobody has any use for them, so yes, having those unbound is exactly how it should be.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • eoleeeolee Posts: 264Member Arc User

    The exchanges are meant to BtA.

    There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.

    For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.

    While i can see the potential abuses of course, they do make sense, i would respectfully say that making the trade vendor expire after some time would be a better idea.
    I mean, if you want to remove AD from the game since there's still too much of it, a temporary trade vendor would help with that, not a permanent one binding enchants to account.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 405Member Arc User
    Agree. Make them bound for a limited time. Using myself as an example... most of the money I spent on the game was to purchase 25 r14 Black Ice enchants which were 3 million a piece. The whole AD auction market turned to 2 million a piece for any r14 enchant after Cryptics announcement of exchange. I traded numerous Black Ice for Silver cause I knew I wanted some Single Stat enchantments in M16. Now... with the new announcements.. silver will go down to 1 million each and I will be faced with a 2 million loss per enchantment or trade them for a permanently bound one. This is a difficult pill to swallow after spending over $1000 in my first year of playing to support the game and improve my character.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I traded numerous Black Ice for Silver cause I knew I wanted some Single Stat enchantments in M16.

    Well, if you gamble, sometimes you lose. I was tempted to do the same in fact, but decided not to - turns out that was the right choice, as the change from 500:1% to 1000:1% means that higher stats are needed, so I will be sticking to 3-stat enchants, as they have higher total stats.

    It is a bit risky to make bets like that when things are being changed - I mean, I know people who spent millions of AD on buying Moderate Shadowclad and Eclipse enchants for 20.000 each, with the intention of converting them to Moderate Barkshield and resell at a significant profit. Now, with the enchants being bound, that is not going to work.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,592Member Arc User
    rather than make them bound can't you do a system that lets you have one or two of any particular kind and then starts making them bound (with a big warning) after that to avoid flooding the market? it seems wrong to make things bound to account that had previously not been bound to account. I don't have a single bound to account or char enchantment that allows trade at the vendor anyway. the anniversary stone and the heart of fire stone are not tradable anyway. I guess there are the quartermaster stones. just make them not tradable at the vendor.
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  • mongol69mongol69 Posts: 256Member Arc User
    Reposting to refinement since more appropriate thread.

    don't even know where to start with bta news. All the work put into maxing out 4 toons and progress on alts is just wrenching to see lost. Especially on dc and op.

    Having to buy/trade or make 6x runestones plus assasins enchants, etc. per toon, with how absolutely trashed market is and will be with everyone in the same scamble to offload an average of 5 to 6 enchants minimum per toon, its just....wow. That will magnify issues massively. Binding locks enchants so in future mods new gear, changes or whatnot requires more enchants all together to further min/max.

    The amount of time and money put into everything just washed away. If this happens once, then its open season for this tactic or similar reoccurring. This is a cause for a huge loss of faith.

    The thought of doing this to over 120 r14s on main 4 toons, plus 4 alts with r13 to r11s. Coupled with investment loss in over 30 leg companions like archons and leg mounts like snails so 4 of my 6 bound leg mounts become worthless.

    I understand things change, but how this has all been sprung on us suddenly and implementation is just astounding and extremely disappointing
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 1

    With the new status system all my character will be outdated, and my enchants that were for me and for many others will not have value.

    Why do you think that? As far as regular enchantments are concerned, why not just continue to use them, and rearrange your gear, as you have to update that anyhow? It doesn't really matter where your stats come from, just what the total is.

    I see this as much more of an issue with weapon or armor enchants - you may want to swap out Lightning and/or Negation, for example, as they look mostly useless now and you just cannot sell them on the AH, as nobody else will want them either - so your only option is to exchange for bound replacements.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 405Member Arc User
    edited April 2
    Obviously, it is a typo/bug. They still have not fixed it. Surely, it was meant to be 1%. Since then, they nerfed a lot of enchants though.. so they will probably bring it down to .5% per stack. I am guessing of course.

    Once they fix it to .5% or 1%, the CRITICAL information everyone NEEDS to know, is whether it will bring your defense higher than 50% if you are already capped. The same goes for all of the defense boosters and skills.
  • kopros666kopros666 Posts: 52Member Arc User
    edited April 2

    The exchanges are meant to BtA.

    There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.

    For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.

    It is so dirty and, at least, unthoughtful of you devs that you announced the bta changes 3 (4? I don't remember) weeks after the 1st appearance of trade merchant, giving the majority of people the idea they could safely rearrange their hard earned ench, stones to mix/max for the new caps after the release. You should make this clear at day 1! (I'm 99% convinced you delayed the bta announcement on purpose, to make players prepare in the wrong way). Also, knowing we could trade without the binding limitation was a good solution to set things right for the casual players who work hard to get the bis gear.

    If you want to prevent exploits, offer non-bta trades for weapon and armor enchantments per main char (one for weapon, one for armor), and a limit for non-bta enchantment stones per main (6-8 in total per main char). Also make bta only the stuff-to-be-traded that was bound. Another way to prevent exploits is to make only low rank enchantments bta, like lesser-moderate-greater and r7-8-9 or r10.

    Another way would be to make everything bta with a permanent merchant, but that would give the players with bta stones the advantage on every new changes, so we are back to zero.
    Post edited by kopros666 on
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Posts: 94Member Arc User
    adinosii said:

    With the new status system all my character will be outdated, and my enchants that were for me and for many others will not have value.

    Why do you think that? As far as regular enchantments are concerned, why not just continue to use them, and rearrange your gear, as you have to update that anyhow? It doesn't really matter where your stats come from, just what the total is.

    I see this as much more of an issue with weapon or armor enchants - you may want to swap out Lightning and/or Negation, for example, as they look mostly useless now and you just cannot sell them on the AH, as nobody else will want them either - so your only option is to exchange for bound replacements.

    I'll explain you using my GWF main char as an example.

    1: All my slots are Dark R13 and R14

    2: All my defensive slots are Brutals R14 (when there is OP in the party use boon of HP, when there is no OP use defensive boon).

    3: Offensive Slots: Anniverssary R14 and the rest Brutal R14 in char. Equipped on companion: Heart of Fire, Brutal 2 r14 and Radiant 2 r14.

    Much of my armor penetration is in equipment and artifacts. I have no recovery beyond the ones I earned via Boon. Next, I'll need enough accuracy and armor pentration to start giving damage. Note that my enchants have none of that. And when Dev says to get an exchange with players or via AH, is a slap in the face, since I know that no one will be interested in these enchants (maybe some newbie wanting to up your item level fast - paying very cheap of course), or I will lose 10% to AH of something that does not even have the amount invested. I own 3 char full campaigns, I always try to invest in them, improve. I'm not a player with a unique character who plays to be a millionaire in a game. And when you quote weapon enchants and armor, what will be better than trading my Fey U by Vorpal (maybe new Bis for dps) if I'm not going to be able to balance to have the critical cap max? What it will do for me to have a U-enchant if I do not even know if I can hit an enemy. Remember that as the case of my GWF, there are OP's and DC's with the problem of Radiants, GF's with the problem of silvery and Cruel. All these classes tried to maximize somehow via enchants their role.
  • kopros666kopros666 Posts: 52Member Arc User
    My previous comment was deleted (thanks for this) and I'm posting again my solutions for the bta changes (so exploits are prevented).

    1. Make non-bta 1 armor and 1 weapon enchantment per main character.
    2. Make non-bta 6-8 enchantments per main char.
    3. Make bta low rank weapon/armor enchantments (lesser-moderate-greater).
    4. Make bta low rank enchantments r7-10s.
    5. Make bta/btc whatever enchantment was already bound.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 4,220Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    gweddry said:



    Yeah, and when a mod or two later, as usual, our newly bound enchants become useless, we are stuck. Great design.

    Bound enchants mulch up for RP nicely.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Posts: 273Member Arc User
    > @noworries#8859 said:
    > The exchanges are meant to BtA.
    >
    > There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.
    >
    > For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.

    So to prevent the abuses of a few, the whole has to suffer? Bad decision in my opinion and another thing that I think will come back to bite the game in the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> along with scaling. Both of these decisions will help with the exodus of players leaving.
  • picar66picar66 Posts: 118Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    BtA for all is a bad decision against Players.
    May be a solution is that the BtA enchants will be unbound once updated to next rank.
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