Rogue needs a top end Single Target damage reduction.
I'm curious. Is the TR at Lvl 80 and did do you know if they fix the issues with scaling outside of the undermountain areas?
Level 80 Rogue and depending on the zone it is fixed. This is a rebalanced eSoT.
How does it compare vs CW? (mine isn't at this level)
Worse AoE, much better Single Target. Wizard is a better designed class, both its paths work and it only needs minor changes, where as TR needs a massive overhaul to make everything work.
Rogue needs a top end Single Target damage reduction.
I'm curious. Is the TR at Lvl 80 and did do you know if they fix the issues with scaling outside of the undermountain areas?
Level 80 Rogue and depending on the zone it is fixed. This is a rebalanced eSoT.
How does it compare vs CW? (mine isn't at this level)
Worse AoE, much better Single Target. Wizard is a better designed class, both its paths work and it only needs minor changes, where as TR needs a massive overhaul to make everything work.
Especially the stealth meter.. should be last for long like mod 1, even if the encounters cooldowns are like 20-25sec, but at least make the stealth meter last for long aswell..
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Razor Action procs on every tick of Killing Storm.
I Became the became with mod 14 and TR was my first and favorite character though it's quite different as it's in other MMO's where his rôle is also to support group, so I have many questions for mod 16 : 1) Is there any power that inflicts DOT and debuff apart smoke bomb (like poison for example) ? It should be an interesting alternative to specialise instead of direct damage 2) Any feat useful to the group or is it still only a solo DPS ? Since mod 15, I've never seen any announce looking for A TR. Is there a chance that it changes ? 3) last , is there at least an credible alternative to Orcus set since mod 16 was supposed to give more choices to players the previous post make me think we're going to an unique way to play it in PVE so please can we have stuff that can give us more options ?
On live I have a 13.6 il and I only have 4204 recovery. After looking at the cool down speeds on the Assassin this is what I found. Skill Live Preview Impossible to Catch 13sec 21sec Blade Flurry 16sec 15sec Smoke Bomb 13sec 21sec Wicked Reminder 3 charges no cool down time 17sec Path of the Blade 19sec 24sec Bait and Switch 18sec 23sec Lashing Blade 15sec 15sec Deft Strike 11sec 14sec Dazing Strike 8sec 10sec
One or two skills match a 4k recovery but other don't. Could we get all of them to match a 4k recovery? We wouldn't be able to spam encounter's but we would be able to do a rotation with them to do the dps we all want. I'm not sure about others but even being used to not be able to spam my encounter powers I find that I'm not able to find a good rotation. On live I throw smoke bomb to daze so i can then go in and kill. On mod 16 I find that if i do this I'm not able to hit smoke bomb for another group of mobs without waiting close to 10 sec or more before engaging. So maybe having a universal recovery rate on encounters would help. I ok with the cool down on some of the skills but those aren't the ones I like to use since I very rarely fight only one mob at a time.
stealth is survival skills (and not tanking skills, that is really different)
stealth is damage
stealth is mobility
stealth is everything
everything is stealth
Stealth make TR OP, but lack of stealth make TR useless.
Thowing my 2cents in, mostly reiterate what others have contributed.
First we have stealth, which has lost crit chance which does affect powers like Lashing Blade to only have a chance for that added effect of Crit Severity. I agree CA is not good enough bonus for the Stealth mechanic.
Whisperknife has an interesting style of stealth and ranged. I fear its just gonna get forgotten again as the current powers and feats don't support the paragon path. As what do to improve it, I have no clue, I just know any small buff to current powers and feats won't do a heck of alot.
Assassin I feel is not in a good spot when it loses that cooldown bug. Just some high damage encounters with with long cooldowns. Doesn't seem very fun.
Both paragons need their share of work, as they stand now they don't offer much in the way synergy with their powers, feats, and playstyle.
Stealth is more or less useless now for a Tr and with a awful long recharged time. Sometimes it seems for me it is nothing more now, that i can safe dodgeroll into an add group during questing and thats it..
WK: I was interested, if the WK is finally a viable option, but i have also to say: It is not..better said i made a WK loadout with focus on lesser encounter cooldowns, and not with the hardest hitting/magnitude encounters.... My resumee after one week..it is "oki'sh" for questing, even in the new campaign zones, i never had much problems with the adds or even the mini bosses. But then i tried the same thing what @thefabricant did, soloing eSoT... And then there was a rude awakening, fine i had often my encounters up, but they are simply to weak against adds in dungeons. My "rotation" was often: Stealthed smoke, Blitz and Blade flurry.. "Ok'ish" cooldowns but the last hard hit was missing. And a better second at-will. Cos is also "ok'ish" if you want to avoid a aoe attack, Shuriken is complete a no-go too slow, the animation jump between is a little bit (for me)
Assassin: After my rude awaking with WK, i fooled around a little bit again with my Assassin loadout.. What i have to say, i "tested" it first against lvl 80 adds in the last zone...and i died 3 or 4 times in a row.. Rotation was: Stealthed Dazing Strike, Smokebomb, Blade Flurry... Needless to say i wasn't very amused..
Then i tried my second eSot run, just for testing. And again i noticed teh same, as others mentioned also, better dps, but this awful long cooldowns and slow stealth recharge..
Playing now on the Preview doesn't feel like i have a fast paced Rogue, or better said a little bit, bc i had to dodge and jump like a Maniac..
I mean cm'on i am now near 50 years old, but even a Oldtimer like me fell asleep, playing actually a Rogue, it is clumsy, slow, totally un-smooth, nothing that i want to see for (also my opinion) a fast paced but maybe squishy class with high single target output.
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited March 2019
How about a general idea, for a fast rework:
Stealth is more or less useless, and the only interaction is is ~4 feats that can be changed.
Make stealth a toggle, when toggled 'on', it will drain, not by encounter or at-will usage, but only on its own. When toggled off it will recharge - even when not fully drained. Can be activated any time it's not fully empty. (Not only on full, but any time) Can have a small CD between toggle on/off states, about half sec. Hence we get a resource we can manage. More or less like stamina for tanks. (I imagine about 9% per sec recharge rate and depletion rate, but timings are obviously flexible and need to be 'felt')
When on, we have some added bonuses, most can be kept as is, as most encounters have such bonuses set. Some will obviously need some adjustment, especially the charges, but still doable.
Various feats can then have added bonus while in 'stealth' or rename it to 'focus' or whatever, for example:
Offensive bonuses - directly to damage.
Recharge speed - I know that the aim is to stabilize encounter CD, but this as bonus can be easily balanced, as stealth has maximum up time, and the bonus can be easily calculate on the average encounter usage and balanced as DPS bonus.
Various utility to make playstyles, AP gain, movement, and more so Defensive bonuses to those who want a more robust Rogue.
Such mechanic can make Stealth actually meaningful, add a skill curve, for managing and timing its usage, and allow more freedom in creating better feats to allow for more varied and meaningful play styles. With all the respect for the uniqueness of stealth right now, it became a fashion statement and not an useful class mechanic.
Stealth is more or less useless, and the only interaction is is ~4 feats that can be changed.
Make stealth a toggle, when toggled 'on', it will drain, not by encounter or at-will usage, but only on its own. When toggled off it will recharge - even when not fully drained. Hence we get a resource we can manage. More or less like stamina for tanks.
When on, we have some added bonuses, most can be kept as is, as most encounters have such bonuses set.
Various feats can then have added bonus while in 'stealth' or rename it to 'focus' or whatever, for example:
Offensive bonuses - directly to damage.
Recharge speed - I know that the aim is to stabilize encounter CD, but this as bonus can be easily balanced, as stealth has maximum up time, and the bonus can be easily calculate on the average encounter usage and balanced as DPS bonus.
Various utility to make playstyles, AP gain, movement, and more so Defensive bonuses to those who want a more robust Rogue.
Such mechanic can make Stealth actually meaningful, add a skill curve, for managing and timing its usage, and allow more freedom in creating better feats to allow for more varied and meaningful play styles. With all the respect for the uniqueness of stealth right now, it became a fashion statement and not an useful class mechanic.
This is a REALLY good idea. Even if you didn't change anything that stealth that actually does currently, just allowing for the toggle option that doesn't deplete on attack would give it back a usefulness. And it would perfectly suit the changes being made to several other classes moving to a resource management/skill playstyle.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Or at least bring back the 100% crit from stealth.
I played a bit my Tr on preview, this is what i think. ( English is not my main language).
I dislike the new stealth mechanic: granting me combat advantage, i will probably have combat advantage anyway by positioning toward my pet or my teammates...
Wk is underwhelming:
- I was using, PotB, Sb, blitz, Wob, Tactics, Razor Action for AoE. Once i am on cooldowns, i just hide in a corner for refilll and fight the next pack of mobs. This is really slow. - At wills damage are meh. - Sod should be on the assassin paragon. - I dislike shuriken toss. It does nothing. I like the idea to be a ninja but not a bad one.
As i was leveling i started to struggle a bit, so i swapped to Assassin for Aoe AND single target.
Assassin:
- The cooldows are still slow to refill, but i don't struggle to kill higher Lvl mobs. And since it does a better job than wk i won't bother with wk anymore. - Why bloodbath isn't on the wk paragon ? I can see a point but it is very minimal. Like dodging winter chill of drufy. - Infiltrator's action: I don't think having Combat advantage after a daily is usefull. Positioning is an overall better strategy. I dislike this feat. - Potb shouldn't be in this paragon.
That's a bit short for a feedback, if i feel the need to add something, i will write a new post. Cheers.
BlopusCorpus
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited March 2019
As I can't see any way to salvage 2 paths out of the TR class, I though I would try shoot for the moon and try Salvage 1 of them and then design a completely new 1. Since I don't expect any of my feedback to be taken seriously, I will propose my vision for what I think would be fun for the class and not what I consider realistic.
Paragon Paths: Path 1: Whisperknife (The salvaged one). This is going to be a DPS path and its theme will be stealth. Mechanically, stealth will function as proposed above by @micky1p00.
Stealth is more or less useless, and the only interaction is is ~4 feats that can be changed.
Make stealth a toggle, when toggled 'on', it will drain, not by encounter or at-will usage, but only on its own. When toggled off it will recharge - even when not fully drained. Hence we get a resource we can manage. More or less like stamina for tanks.
When on, we have some added bonuses, most can be kept as is, as most encounters have such bonuses set.
Various feats can then have added bonus while in 'stealth' or rename it to 'focus' or whatever, for example:
Offensive bonuses - directly to damage.
Recharge speed - I know that the aim is to stabilize encounter CD, but this as bonus can be easily balanced, as stealth has maximum up time, and the bonus can be easily calculate on the average encounter usage and balanced as DPS bonus.
Various utility to make playstyles, AP gain, movement, and more so Defensive bonuses to those who want a more robust Rogue.
Such mechanic can make Stealth actually meaningful, add a skill curve, for managing and timing its usage, and allow more freedom in creating better feats to allow for more varied and meaningful play styles. With all the respect for the uniqueness of stealth right now, it became a fashion statement and not an useful class mechanic.
In addition, all the current stealth bonuses for powers will be added by allocating this path.
Path 2: Swashbuckler/Duelist (The new path). This is going to be a tank path for rogue. Yep, you heard me, I am mad. A tank. Mechanically, tab will change from stealth to duelist's stance, which is a toggle. While it is active, you move at half of base speed and shift is changed from a dodge to Parry. The way Parry works is as follows:
Perfect Parry: If you press shift within 0.25 seconds of it hitting you, you mitigate 100% of the incoming hit and your cooldowns are reduced by 1 second.
Adequate Parry: If you press shift within 0.25-0.5 seconds of the incoming hit, you mitigate 80% of the incoming hit, then lose stamina proportional to the percentage of hp lost.
Parry: If you press shift within 0.5-1 second of the incoming hit, you mitigate 50% of the incoming hit, then lose stamina proportional to the percentage of hp lost.
If your timing is out by over 1 second, you take full damage and stamina is not consumed.
The way this tank rogue is intended to be played is as a hybrid dps/tank, where it is more squishy then a dps class if it gets hit, but has access to iframes from various sources which must be carefully timed in order to not get hit. The class generates aggro equal to 130% of its damage and unlike other tank classes it does not take a 30% damage penalty. The penalty to playing this class is the much higher skill cap required to play it.
Powers: Some of these can be salvaged and will be assigned to the new paths. The following will be culled entirely and redesigned:
Impact Shot
Shadowy Disappearance
Bait and Switch
Disheartening Strike
General (The stealth bonus works for duelist if you are in dueling stance): Encounters:
Smoke Bomb
Dazing Strike
Lashing Blade
Path of the Blade
Vengeance Persuit
At Wills:
Sly Flourish
Cloud of Steel
Daily Powers:
Whirlwind of Blades
Hateful Knives
Shocking Execution
Whisperknife: Encounters:
Assassinate
Wicked Reminder
Blade Flurry
Shadow Strike
Blitz
At Wills:
Gloaming Cut
Shuriken Toss
Daily Powers:
Killing Storm
Lurker's Assault
Duelist: Encounters:
Deft Strike - Add an immunity frame during the animation.
Impossible to Catch - Removes the movement penalty while in Dueling Stance on top of its normal effect.
Riposte - New utility power. Whenever you Iframe or parry an incoming attack within the next 10 seconds, hit the enemy for 250 magnitude damage and restore 5% of stamina as well. Cooldown 20 seconds.
Evasive Maneuvers - New AoE encounter power. Deal 900 magnitude damage, divided equally between all enemies within 10' and has a 1 second iframe. Cooldown 14 seconds.
Mocking Gestures - Mark a target. For the next 6 seconds their attacks against you deal 50% increased damage but all adequate parries count as perfect. Your attacks against this target deal 5% increased damage and generate double threat. Cooldown 12 seconds, goes onto cooldown after the effect ends. Can be cancelled early by toggling off.
At Wills:
Duelist's Flurry (of coarse)
Dash - Has 3 charges. Charges regenerate whenever you adequate or perfect parry. Charges towards an enemy and has a 0.75 second immunity frame.
And while we are at balancing why do we tr not have any fireball or combo attack with flames? its really upsetting that SW has sth like that and we dont pls put it in instead of lashing blade
Path 2: Swashbuckler/Duelist (The new path). This is going to be a tank path for rogue. Yep, you heard me, I am mad. A tank. Mechanically, tab will change from stealth to duelist's stance, which is a toggle. While it is active, you move at half of base speed and shift is changed from a dodge to riposte. The way riposte works is as follows:
Perfect Riposte: If you press shift within 0.25 seconds of it hitting you, you mitigate 100% of the incoming hit and your cooldowns are reduced by 1 second.
Adequate Riposte: If you press shift within 0.25-0.5 seconds of the incoming hit, you mitigate 80% of the incoming hit, then lose stamina proportional to the percentage of hp lost.
Riposte: If you press shift within 0.5-1 second of the incoming hit, you mitigate 50% of the incoming hit, then lose stamina proportional to the percentage of hp lost.
If your timing is out by over 1 second, you take full damage and stamina is not consumed.
I'd call the mechanic Parry because a Riposte is the counter attack after you parry an attack.
To save on programming/animations, I'd suggest the Tab mechanic recycles discount dracula's idle pose which has a distinct en garde fencing stance.
This sounds fun, but I don't know how well this would go down for some players, as the spec is practically unworkable depending on where you live (read: not camping on top of the servers).
also if this realistically happens I hate you for making me want to main Rogue also if this happens I want dreadnought to become a healer path so I can finally be healer GF
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited March 2019
After changing the rogue's powers, I would then change its feats as follows:
Whisperknife: Level 1: Master of Shadows - Replace Last Moments. Shady Preparations - Can Stay.
Level 2: Dark Reimbursement - Can Stay. Hidden Attacks - Can Stay.
Level 3: One with the Shadows - Can Stay. Return to the Shadows - Can Stay.
Level 4: Shadowy Opportunity - Can Stay. Shadow of Demise - Can Stay.
Duelist: Level 1: Feign Death - If an attack would reduce you to 0 hitpoints, instead set you to 40% hitpoints. This can only occur once every 2 minutes. Death Wish - When you drop below 40% hitpoints, gain 25% increased damage for 10 seconds.
Level 2: Uncanny Evasion - Your Immunity Frames last 0.15 seconds longer, but you take 10% increased damage from hits. Brutality - Your Immunity Frames are 0.15 seconds shorter, but you deal 25% increased damage.
Level 3: Infuriating Finesse - Whenever you successfully parry an attack, generate 25% more threat for the next 4 seconds. Collateral Damage - Whenever you successfully parry an attack, deal 20 magnitude damage to all enemies in 10'.
Level 4: Crude Parry - Adequate Parries have the damage reduction of a perfect parry, but perfect parry consumes stamina as if you had performed an Adequate parry. Parry Mastery - You cannot make a normal parry but perfect riposte's cause your next 4 hits automatically critical hit.
Level 5: Risky Actions - Taking a single hit for more than 35% of your hitpoints increases your damage by 20% for 6 seconds and reduces your cooldowns by 3 seconds. Defensive Posture - Lose 5% less stamina and take 5% less damage when you perform a normal riposte.
Level 4: Riposte Mastery - You cannot make a normal riposte but perfect riposte's cause your next 4 hits automatically critical hit.
I would hope that these 4 hits aren't consumed by random hits or from DoTs like "Duelist's" Flurry (really, who uses a rapier like you're carving up a boar for dinner?).
Defensive Posture - Lose 5% less stamina and take 5% less damage when you perform a normal riposte.
I'd change it to be 10% on each, possibly more depending on how things go.
For level 80 feat, 5% is a big letdown. I'd also argue 5% is not really perceivable and I doubt it will make Duelist more consistent apart from "numbers alone".
Bois stab Edge lord before someone takes him seriously.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Class Features:
General:
Skillful Infiltrator
Tactics
Infiltrator's Action
Oppressive Darkness
Whisperknife:
Sneak Attack
Tenacious Concealment
Invisible Infiltrator
Advantageous Position
Duelist:
Dazzling Blades - Take and deal 5% increased damage. Your at wills generate 10% more threat.
Intuition - Taking a hit grants you intuition, reducing the damage from that hit by 20% and reducing hits for the next 6 seconds by 10%, then going on cooldown for 14 seconds.
Counterstrike - 30% chance to deal 200 magnitude damage when you iframe or parry an attack.
Long Winded - Lose 10% less stamina when you adequate or normal parry.
Having run through the levelling 70 - 80 testing as I've gone. My impressions at the moment:
At-wills Sly Flourish: No added effect which is inconsistent with the other at-wills. Either add something to it or increase dmg to make this worthwhile.
Duellist Flurry and Cloud of Steel: Appear to be working as intended
Gloaming Cut: Added effects aren't working
Encounters Deft Strike: (Visual glitch) superimposes the number 78.1984 over the slotted icon (I've noticed this with some other powers specific to whisperknife)
Bait and Switch: Does not give AP as per description when struck by enemies.
Path of the Blade: Gives such inconsequential damage I can't think of a situation where i'd use it. Pulsing twice from stealth does nothing to redeem it.
Class Features Oppressive Darkness: doesn't appear to add any damage what so ever
Infiltrators Action: Working as described
Tactics: Displays the additional 10% correctly, but anecdotally AP gain feels no different.
Feats Execution: "When an enemy has under 20% life, your attacks have a 5% chance to execute the target the dealing 200% of weapon damage." This feels like a lot of hoops to jump through to get (potentially - fully refined new weapons) an additional c. 8.6k dmg. Especially given its position on the feat tree. Either, broaden the criteria where the feat triggers or increase the dmg bonus to a meaningful amount. In any case, suggesting that you'd "execute" is probably misleading.
Additionally @asterdahl@noworries#8859 , I'm disappointed that the dev presence in this thread is so scant. I know that you guys have a lot to do with the new module, and whilst it has been said that you're reading all the comments, it would appear that you're also reading the comments and replying in other threads. Ultimately, comparisons do get drawn and I don't think unreasonably so!
I was personally disappointed by what was sold as the much awaited re-balance of TRs in the last module. As such, i was anticipating more engagement this time round.
From the moment m16 became available on the Preview server up until now, I have been observing and holding back with feedback because the changes to this class blew my mind, in a negative way. Even now, I have no idea what to even suggest nor how to play this class in m16, a class which i have been playing as main class since December 2nd 2015... Up until now if someone asked me to suggest something about the class I could go on and on but now I got nothing. I checked the class in preview, hard hitting single target encounters and daily in Assassin path with dead play style. What are we supposed to do? Hold atwills which do no damage and use whatever isnt on cooldown? Whisperknife trying to reduce cooldowns to use lame encounters? I saw one good suggestion, delete one Paragon(WK, imo) and design it anew. I will list a few complaints that I think should be addressed, you can do with them what you wish and only suggestion I offer is - dont release m16 until it is ready and it currently looks far from ready.
First thing to mention is Stealth class mechanic. It was useless before, it became even more useless than it used to be, it literally does nothing aside from giving encounters additional effect and that is nothing. MickyP00 made a decent suggestions regarding it. Another way to approach it would be like Divinity from clerics before mod16, permanent Stealth and only consumed by encounters based on their magnitude, starts refilling only when used up totally, otherwise it's not draining.
AtWills - In short, they are all useless and they are what we will be doing most of our time in combat. Sly Flourish, Duelists Flurry, Disheartening Strike, Cloud of Steel all do the same low damage without anything to set them apart. Gloaming Cut may be something that works for PvP but if it was up to me, this atwill would be deleted for PvE. Shuriken Toss nice idea but bad execution, low damage and slow. Give us the AtWill that HR's have with similar animation to our BladeFlurry encounter. That's AoE atwill we need and effect of final strike is to hit with doubled damage and such atwill is welcome in both Paragons.
Daily powers - I get they are meant to be used less often compared to how it used to be but most of them arent updated for the new system and have effects of the old era. Hateful Knives - speed up the animation. Magnitude close to SE but dmg not really. Increase duration of CA to 15 seconds. Shocking Execution - the best one by far, great single target damage but the additional effect is simply bad. First, it doesnt trigger until target is at 20% HP left and once we hit it at that percentage we could either kill it or get it closer to 0% and we only get 50% of the AP bar filled which means we most likely wont be able to hit another time and at the same time lowers our damage from Back Alley Tactics by 5%... Whirlwind of Blades - solid one for AoE damage wise but the buff duration is from the old era, only 10 seconds. That duration was fine when we were able to spam dailies but not now, double the duration. Courage Breaker - 8 seconds duration of nothingness??? Delete it please. Low damage, 15% dmg reduction for 8 friggin seconds??? Delete it and redesign it into something worth using. 5 target aoe with combined animation of SE and PotB encounter, shorter leap into air than SE daily and stab into ground pushing out 5 blades similar to PotB blades and targets hit are slowed down by 50% and they do 20%(10% in PvP) lower damage for 20 seconds. Bloodbath - Aside from not being targetable for 2(?) seconds, what is the purpose of this daily, what makes it worth using? Damage should be equal or close to SE when used against one target. Add some effect to it, increased runs speed by 20% for 5 seconds or something... Killing Storm - new daily ok and good but what makes it worth using over WoB? -2500 awareness on enemies? Pfft. I suggest to halve the cost of AP for this daily and reduce it's magnitude by 1/3. Additionally, it increases critical severity by 10% for 20 seconds. Lurkers Assault - Action Points gain block is still on, really??? That is a joke. 10% damage increase for 10 seconds??? Another joke, this is a duration of old era, double it.
Encounters - a lot of them need to be reworked because most are useless. Blade Flurry - it needs a new stealthed effect and add the current stealthed range to it's default range. Damage could be a bit higher. Stealthed effect - gives increased damage resistance by 20%. Lashing Blade - latest magnitude is too low compared to other ST encounters and this power needs completely new stealthed effect and not something that may or may not work. Why use it from Stealth when there is a high chance it wont work? Path of the Blade - used to be good for AP gain in old era but only for AP gain, over time. Now, it's good for nothing. Since its damage of time with high cooldown it needs a higher magnitude and what about additional AP gain over time as extra effect instead of faster pulse? Smoke Bomb - only complaint is the long cooldown. Bait and Switch - good for what? The main thing this encounter was used for was AP gain and now decoy gives none. Fix the AP gain from decoy, at least 10% AP bar otherwise new effect is needed and reduce encounter cooldowns by 1 second per hit that decoy takes. The encounter cd reduction part can be the new Stealthed effect since old one is meh. Impossible to Catch - delete it, it's the worst encounter in m16. Design something new. Both effect and duration are terrible. Deft Strike - needs new stealthed ability, there is no need to teleport to friendly targets and often is a mistake ppl dont want. Wicked Reminder - needs a new Stealthed ability since current one is useless. Dazing Strike - what's the purpose of this encounter, why slot it? Vengeances Pursuit - delete this forever bugged encounter and just design new one. Blitz - low damage, stealthed ability reduces cooldowns by 1sec??? longer animation than hidden daggers... Impact Shot - bad overall, stealthed effect does lower damage than normal 3 charges based attack? remove charges, get new stealthed ability(adds bleed effect over 10 seconds which ends up doing the same damage as initial hit,~ 500 magnitude both). Shadowy Disappearance - increase damage, add new stealthed effect - taking lower damage for 5 seconds after teleport.
Class features - so many are useless and all those based on Daily activation need another trigger. Skillful infiltrator, Sneak Attack, Tenacious Concealment, Invisible infiltrator, Infiltrators Action, First Strike, Razor Action, Talisman of Shadows are all useless. Advantageous position - needs to reduce all incoming damage, not just aoe and projectile. Talisman of Shadows - the most useless one I guess. II and IA - are a joke of the new era. From the best ones to worst. 5% damage for 5 seconds after Daily is bad for old era, it's unforgivable in new era. If you want to base 1 or 2 of them on Daily better make the duration and effect worth slotting it. Tactics - increasing AP gain... Is it really worth it? The best among the worst?
Feats - I wont go into them but they are equal mess to Powers... Gutterborn's touch, for example, 5000 accuracy as T5 feat, really??? Who cares for 5k accuracy stat? The other T5 option is Ambushers Haste - based on fullness of stealth meter while we fill stealth slower than before and use it up right away when we get it...
The class went from being the one with the best play style to one with the worst. The whole thing needs to be thought over how the fluidity of the combat will work, how the synergy between feats and class features and target's HP % works...
Stealth is an issue because it has no impact on gameplay. Players will position for CA, this means the only effect a TR gets from Stealth is the added effect. The added effect is essentially like the mastery bonus of a CW power, since you can choose only 1 power to get it at a time. Only CW can slot an extra power there and it gets a 20% damage boost. To put it simply, this is a butchered spell mastery.
First we have stealth, which has lost crit chance which does affect powers like Lashing Blade to only have a chance for that added effect of Crit Severity. I agree CA is not good enough bonus for the Stealth mechanic.
....snip Stealth is more or less useless now for a Tr and with a awful long recharged time. Sometimes it seems for me it is nothing more now, that i can safe dodgeroll into an add group during questing and thats it..
First thing to mention is Stealth class mechanic. It was useless before, it became even more useless than it used to be, it literally does nothing aside from giving encounters additional effect and that is nothing. MickyP00 made a decent suggestions regarding it. Another way to approach it would be like Divinity from clerics before mod16, permanent Stealth and only consumed by encounters based on their magnitude, starts refilling only when used up totally, otherwise it's not draining.
Stealth is in a sorry place. There are mechanics in place that hark back to changes made many modules ago that are now either irrelevant or heavy handed considering the Undermountain changes . As it is, stealth as a hallmark of the class offers very little by way of benefit. Comparably against the tab powers on other classes I find myself again underwhelmed by the mechanics. Bear in mind that this is compounded by the fact that the Assassin Paragon only benefits from one feat that involves the mechanic. Disparity without balance.
Currently if Stealth was an Ice cream flavour it would be Vanilla. I'm talking a cheap ice cream where the flavour is only just noticeable and you're left with a nasty after taste!
Agreed that TR is in a bad place. I mean it is pretty bad when one of the top theory people in the game has resorted to making up a Tank TR as he really cant figure out anywhere else to go with the class. Not to mention as has been pointed out repeatedly how useless Stealth is.
Also why was there basically no mention of the TR changes in the latest patch notes. There was mention of a fix where you can now actually create a decoy from bait and switch, but why was there absolutely no mention of the cool down and magnitude changes of a bunch of other encounters.
What I dont get at all.... why is SoD on the aoe wk path? Will it be a forced playstyle to hit the biggest mob with SoD first and then go for bladeflurry or smoke bomb to get use of it? Will it get changed back to assasin(exe)?
I am on console, but the changes immediately affected us on Ps4. My fl has drowned again 30%..just like a few months ago. Vorpal went from 2,4 mill to 5,2 mill ad on march 1st, etc....
my main question is why would any1 play TR over HR , GWF , or any other dps path?
while on stealth all the encounter and atwills teleport to the back of the target
This is actually bad. any map that has drops at the end would end up spelling death for TR's. I used Deft strike for quite awhile for extra movement/dodge around the battlefield and I cant tell you how many times I accidentally ported off the side of a cliff after using it, and that wasn't even while stealthed. What you propose there is the same but with every power.
Really sucks on things like Tong where Ras would be in the middle of the platform and I trigger a power from stealth as he teleports to the edge and I go right along with him and end up behind and falling to my death.
I'm unable to get on preview with a TR at the moment. (Only have an OP on PC and my PC is playing silly buggers so leveling a new toon is... problematic)
My original main on XB is TR however and I've played it for 4 years.
Regarding Stealth, I'm not sure exactly what it does do right now on Preview apart from act as an Alt Key for other powers, but the one thing it should, before ANYTHING else, do is zero out the TR's aggro.
If that's not happening right now, it damn well should do.
Comments
1) Is there any power that inflicts DOT and debuff apart smoke bomb (like poison for example) ? It should be an interesting alternative to specialise instead of direct damage
2) Any feat useful to the group or is it still only a solo DPS ? Since mod 15, I've never seen any announce looking for A TR. Is there a chance that it changes ?
3) last , is there at least an credible alternative to Orcus set since mod 16 was supposed to give more choices to players
the previous post make me think we're going to an unique way to play it in PVE so please can we have stuff that can give us more options ?
Skill Live Preview
Impossible to Catch 13sec 21sec
Blade Flurry 16sec 15sec
Smoke Bomb 13sec 21sec
Wicked Reminder 3 charges no cool down time 17sec
Path of the Blade 19sec 24sec
Bait and Switch 18sec 23sec
Lashing Blade 15sec 15sec
Deft Strike 11sec 14sec
Dazing Strike 8sec 10sec
One or two skills match a 4k recovery but other don't. Could we get all of them to match a 4k recovery? We wouldn't be able to spam encounter's but we would be able to do a rotation with them to do the dps we all want. I'm not sure about others but even being used to not be able to spam my encounter powers I find that I'm not able to find a good rotation. On live I throw smoke bomb to daze so i can then go in and kill. On mod 16 I find that if i do this I'm not able to hit smoke bomb for another group of mobs without waiting close to 10 sec or more before engaging. So maybe having a universal recovery rate on encounters would help. I ok with the cool down on some of the skills but those aren't the ones I like to use since I very rarely fight only one mob at a time.
stealth is damage
stealth is mobility
stealth is everything
everything is stealth
Stealth make TR OP, but lack of stealth make TR useless.
First we have stealth, which has lost crit chance which does affect powers like Lashing Blade to only have a chance for that added effect of Crit Severity. I agree CA is not good enough bonus for the Stealth mechanic.
Whisperknife has an interesting style of stealth and ranged. I fear its just gonna get forgotten again as the current powers and feats don't support the paragon path. As what do to improve it, I have no clue, I just know any small buff to current powers and feats won't do a heck of alot.
Assassin I feel is not in a good spot when it loses that cooldown bug. Just some high damage encounters with with long cooldowns. Doesn't seem very fun.
Both paragons need their share of work, as they stand now they don't offer much in the way synergy with their powers, feats, and playstyle.
Stealth is more or less useless now for a Tr and with a awful long recharged time.
Sometimes it seems for me it is nothing more now, that i can safe dodgeroll into an add group during questing and thats it..
WK:
I was interested, if the WK is finally a viable option, but i have also to say:
It is not..better said i made a WK loadout with focus on lesser encounter cooldowns, and not with the hardest hitting/magnitude encounters....
My resumee after one week..it is "oki'sh" for questing, even in the new campaign zones, i never had much problems with the adds or even the mini bosses.
But then i tried the same thing what @thefabricant did, soloing eSoT...
And then there was a rude awakening, fine i had often my encounters up, but they are simply to weak against adds in dungeons.
My "rotation" was often: Stealthed smoke, Blitz and Blade flurry..
"Ok'ish" cooldowns but the last hard hit was missing.
And a better second at-will.
Cos is also "ok'ish" if you want to avoid a aoe attack, Shuriken is complete a no-go too slow, the animation jump between is a little bit (for me)
Assassin:
After my rude awaking with WK, i fooled around a little bit again with my Assassin loadout..
What i have to say, i "tested" it first against lvl 80 adds in the last zone...and i died 3 or 4 times in a row..
Rotation was: Stealthed Dazing Strike, Smokebomb, Blade Flurry...
Needless to say i wasn't very amused..
Then i tried my second eSot run, just for testing.
And again i noticed teh same, as others mentioned also, better dps, but this awful long cooldowns and slow stealth recharge..
Playing now on the Preview doesn't feel like i have a fast paced Rogue, or better said a little bit, bc i had to dodge and jump like a Maniac..
I mean cm'on i am now near 50 years old, but even a Oldtimer like me fell asleep, playing actually a Rogue, it is clumsy, slow, totally un-smooth, nothing that i want to see for (also my opinion) a fast paced but maybe squishy class with high single target output.
Thanks for reading
@asterdahl @noworries#8859
Stealth is more or less useless, and the only interaction is is ~4 feats that can be changed.
Make stealth a toggle, when toggled 'on', it will drain, not by encounter or at-will usage, but only on its own. When toggled off it will recharge - even when not fully drained.
Can be activated any time it's not fully empty. (Not only on full, but any time)
Can have a small CD between toggle on/off states, about half sec.
Hence we get a resource we can manage. More or less like stamina for tanks.
(I imagine about 9% per sec recharge rate and depletion rate, but timings are obviously flexible and need to be 'felt')
When on, we have some added bonuses, most can be kept as is, as most encounters have such bonuses set. Some will obviously need some adjustment, especially the charges, but still doable.
Various feats can then have added bonus while in 'stealth' or rename it to 'focus' or whatever, for example:
Offensive bonuses - directly to damage.
Recharge speed - I know that the aim is to stabilize encounter CD, but this as bonus can be easily balanced, as stealth has maximum up time, and the bonus can be easily calculate on the average encounter usage and balanced as DPS bonus.
Various utility to make playstyles, AP gain, movement, and more so Defensive bonuses to those who want a more robust Rogue.
Such mechanic can make Stealth actually meaningful, add a skill curve, for managing and timing its usage, and allow more freedom in creating better feats to allow for more varied and meaningful play styles. With all the respect for the uniqueness of stealth right now, it became a fashion statement and not an useful class mechanic.
I dislike the new stealth mechanic: granting me combat advantage, i will probably have combat advantage anyway by positioning toward my pet or my teammates...
Wk is underwhelming:
- I was using, PotB, Sb, blitz, Wob, Tactics, Razor Action for AoE. Once i am on cooldowns, i just hide in a corner for refilll and fight the next pack of mobs. This is really slow.
- At wills damage are meh.
- Sod should be on the assassin paragon.
- I dislike shuriken toss. It does nothing. I like the idea to be a ninja but not a bad one.
As i was leveling i started to struggle a bit, so i swapped to Assassin for Aoe AND single target.
Assassin:
- The cooldows are still slow to refill, but i don't struggle to kill higher Lvl mobs. And since it does a better job than wk i won't bother with wk anymore.
- Why bloodbath isn't on the wk paragon ? I can see a point but it is very minimal. Like dodging winter chill of drufy.
- Infiltrator's action: I don't think having Combat advantage after a daily is usefull. Positioning is an overall better strategy. I dislike this feat.
- Potb shouldn't be in this paragon.
That's a bit short for a feedback, if i feel the need to add something, i will write a new post.
Cheers.
BlopusCorpus
Paragon Paths:
Path 1: Whisperknife (The salvaged one). This is going to be a DPS path and its theme will be stealth. Mechanically, stealth will function as proposed above by @micky1p00.
In addition, all the current stealth bonuses for powers will be added by allocating this path.
Path 2: Swashbuckler/Duelist (The new path). This is going to be a tank path for rogue. Yep, you heard me, I am mad. A tank. Mechanically, tab will change from stealth to duelist's stance, which is a toggle. While it is active, you move at half of base speed and shift is changed from a dodge to Parry. The way Parry works is as follows:
The way this tank rogue is intended to be played is as a hybrid dps/tank, where it is more squishy then a dps class if it gets hit, but has access to iframes from various sources which must be carefully timed in order to not get hit. The class generates aggro equal to 130% of its damage and unlike other tank classes it does not take a 30% damage penalty. The penalty to playing this class is the much higher skill cap required to play it.
Powers:
Some of these can be salvaged and will be assigned to the new paths. The following will be culled entirely and redesigned:
- Impact Shot
- Shadowy Disappearance
- Bait and Switch
- Disheartening Strike
General (The stealth bonus works for duelist if you are in dueling stance):Encounters:
- Smoke Bomb
- Dazing Strike
- Lashing Blade
- Path of the Blade
- Vengeance Persuit
At Wills:- Sly Flourish
- Cloud of Steel
Daily Powers:- Whirlwind of Blades
- Hateful Knives
- Shocking Execution
Whisperknife:Encounters:
- Assassinate
- Wicked Reminder
- Blade Flurry
- Shadow Strike
- Blitz
At Wills:- Gloaming Cut
- Shuriken Toss
Daily Powers:- Killing Storm
- Lurker's Assault
Duelist:Encounters:
- Deft Strike - Add an immunity frame during the animation.
- Impossible to Catch - Removes the movement penalty while in Dueling Stance on top of its normal effect.
- Riposte - New utility power. Whenever you Iframe or parry an incoming attack within the next 10 seconds, hit the enemy for 250 magnitude damage and restore 5% of stamina as well. Cooldown 20 seconds.
- Evasive Maneuvers - New AoE encounter power. Deal 900 magnitude damage, divided equally between all enemies within 10' and has a 1 second iframe. Cooldown 14 seconds.
- Mocking Gestures - Mark a target. For the next 6 seconds their attacks against you deal 50% increased damage but all adequate parries count as perfect. Your attacks against this target deal 5% increased damage and generate double threat. Cooldown 12 seconds, goes onto cooldown after the effect ends. Can be cancelled early by toggling off.
At Wills:- Duelist's Flurry (of coarse)
- Dash - Has 3 charges. Charges regenerate whenever you adequate or perfect parry. Charges towards an enemy and has a 0.75 second immunity frame.
Daily Powers:To save on programming/animations, I'd suggest the Tab mechanic recycles discount dracula's idle pose which has a distinct en garde fencing stance.
This sounds fun, but I don't know how well this would go down for some players, as the spec is practically unworkable depending on where you live (read: not camping on top of the servers).
also if this realistically happens I hate you for making me want to main Rogue
also if this happens I want dreadnought to become a healer path so I can finally be healer GF
Whisperknife:
Level 1:
Master of Shadows - Replace Last Moments.
Shady Preparations - Can Stay.
Level 2:
Dark Reimbursement - Can Stay.
Hidden Attacks - Can Stay.
Level 3:
One with the Shadows - Can Stay.
Return to the Shadows - Can Stay.
Level 4:
Shadowy Opportunity - Can Stay.
Shadow of Demise - Can Stay.
Level 5:
Skullcracker - Replace Gutterborn's Touch.
Toxic Blades - Replace Ambusher's Haste.
Duelist:
Level 1:
Feign Death - If an attack would reduce you to 0 hitpoints, instead set you to 40% hitpoints. This can only occur once every 2 minutes.
Death Wish - When you drop below 40% hitpoints, gain 25% increased damage for 10 seconds.
Level 2:
Uncanny Evasion - Your Immunity Frames last 0.15 seconds longer, but you take 10% increased damage from hits.
Brutality - Your Immunity Frames are 0.15 seconds shorter, but you deal 25% increased damage.
Level 3:
Infuriating Finesse - Whenever you successfully parry an attack, generate 25% more threat for the next 4 seconds.
Collateral Damage - Whenever you successfully parry an attack, deal 20 magnitude damage to all enemies in 10'.
Level 4:
Crude Parry - Adequate Parries have the damage reduction of a perfect parry, but perfect parry consumes stamina as if you had performed an Adequate parry.
Parry Mastery - You cannot make a normal parry but perfect riposte's cause your next 4 hits automatically critical hit.
Level 5:
Risky Actions - Taking a single hit for more than 35% of your hitpoints increases your damage by 20% for 6 seconds and reduces your cooldowns by 3 seconds.
Defensive Posture - Lose 5% less stamina and take 5% less damage when you perform a normal riposte.
This would just be a penalty at that point.
Also, I am not sure that 9 or so frames would be a perceivable enough difference for people to notice. I would hope that these 4 hits aren't consumed by random hits or from DoTs like "Duelist's" Flurry (really, who uses a rapier like you're carving up a boar for dinner?). I'd change it to be 10% on each, possibly more depending on how things go.
For level 80 feat, 5% is a big letdown. I'd also argue 5% is not really perceivable and I doubt it will make Duelist more consistent apart from "numbers alone".
Class Features:
General:
- Skillful Infiltrator
- Tactics
- Infiltrator's Action
- Oppressive Darkness
Whisperknife:- Sneak Attack
- Tenacious Concealment
- Invisible Infiltrator
- Advantageous Position
Duelist:Having run through the levelling 70 - 80 testing as I've gone.
My impressions at the moment:
At-wills
Sly Flourish: No added effect which is inconsistent with the other at-wills.
Either add something to it or increase dmg to make this worthwhile.
Duellist Flurry and Cloud of Steel: Appear to be working as intended
Gloaming Cut: Added effects aren't working
Encounters
Deft Strike: (Visual glitch) superimposes the number 78.1984 over the slotted icon (I've noticed this with some other powers specific to whisperknife)
Bait and Switch: Does not give AP as per description when struck by enemies.
Path of the Blade: Gives such inconsequential damage I can't think of a situation where i'd use it. Pulsing twice from stealth does nothing to redeem it.
Class Features
Oppressive Darkness: doesn't appear to add any damage what so ever
Infiltrators Action: Working as described
Tactics: Displays the additional 10% correctly, but anecdotally AP gain feels no different.
Feats
Execution: "When an enemy has under 20% life, your attacks have a 5% chance to execute the target the dealing 200% of weapon damage."
This feels like a lot of hoops to jump through to get (potentially - fully refined new weapons) an additional c. 8.6k dmg. Especially given its position on the feat tree.
Either, broaden the criteria where the feat triggers or increase the dmg bonus to a meaningful amount.
In any case, suggesting that you'd "execute" is probably misleading.
Additionally @asterdahl @noworries#8859 , I'm disappointed that the dev presence in this thread is so scant.
I know that you guys have a lot to do with the new module, and whilst it has been said that you're reading all the comments, it would appear that you're also reading the comments and replying in other threads. Ultimately, comparisons do get drawn and I don't think unreasonably so!
I was personally disappointed by what was sold as the much awaited re-balance of TRs in the last module. As such, i was anticipating more engagement this time round.
*Edited for grammar and clarity
I checked the class in preview, hard hitting single target encounters and daily in Assassin path with dead play style. What are we supposed to do? Hold atwills which do no damage and use whatever isnt on cooldown? Whisperknife trying to reduce cooldowns to use lame encounters? I saw one good suggestion, delete one Paragon(WK, imo) and design it anew. I will list a few complaints that I think should be addressed, you can do with them what you wish and only suggestion I offer is - dont release m16 until it is ready and it currently looks far from ready.
First thing to mention is Stealth class mechanic. It was useless before, it became even more useless than it used to be, it literally does nothing aside from giving encounters additional effect and that is nothing. MickyP00 made a decent suggestions regarding it. Another way to approach it would be like Divinity from clerics before mod16, permanent Stealth and only consumed by encounters based on their magnitude, starts refilling only when used up totally, otherwise it's not draining.
AtWills - In short, they are all useless and they are what we will be doing most of our time in combat.
Sly Flourish, Duelists Flurry, Disheartening Strike, Cloud of Steel all do the same low damage without anything to set them apart.
Gloaming Cut may be something that works for PvP but if it was up to me, this atwill would be deleted for PvE.
Shuriken Toss nice idea but bad execution, low damage and slow. Give us the AtWill that HR's have with similar animation to our BladeFlurry encounter. That's AoE atwill we need and effect of final strike is to hit with doubled damage and such atwill is welcome in both Paragons.
Daily powers - I get they are meant to be used less often compared to how it used to be but most of them arent updated for the new system and have effects of the old era.
Hateful Knives - speed up the animation. Magnitude close to SE but dmg not really. Increase duration of CA to 15 seconds.
Shocking Execution - the best one by far, great single target damage but the additional effect is simply bad. First, it doesnt trigger until target is at 20% HP left and once we hit it at that percentage we could either kill it or get it closer to 0% and we only get 50% of the AP bar filled which means we most likely wont be able to hit another time and at the same time lowers our damage from Back Alley Tactics by 5%...
Whirlwind of Blades - solid one for AoE damage wise but the buff duration is from the old era, only 10 seconds. That duration was fine when we were able to spam dailies but not now, double the duration.
Courage Breaker - 8 seconds duration of nothingness??? Delete it please. Low damage, 15% dmg reduction for 8 friggin seconds??? Delete it and redesign it into something worth using. 5 target aoe with combined animation of SE and PotB encounter, shorter leap into air than SE daily and stab into ground pushing out 5 blades similar to PotB blades and targets hit are slowed down by 50% and they do 20%(10% in PvP) lower damage for 20 seconds.
Bloodbath - Aside from not being targetable for 2(?) seconds, what is the purpose of this daily, what makes it worth using? Damage should be equal or close to SE when used against one target. Add some effect to it, increased runs speed by 20% for 5 seconds or something...
Killing Storm - new daily ok and good but what makes it worth using over WoB? -2500 awareness on enemies? Pfft. I suggest to halve the cost of AP for this daily and reduce it's magnitude by 1/3. Additionally, it increases critical severity by 10% for 20 seconds.
Lurkers Assault - Action Points gain block is still on, really??? That is a joke. 10% damage increase for 10 seconds??? Another joke, this is a duration of old era, double it.
Encounters - a lot of them need to be reworked because most are useless.
Blade Flurry - it needs a new stealthed effect and add the current stealthed range to it's default range. Damage could be a bit higher. Stealthed effect - gives increased damage resistance by 20%.
Lashing Blade - latest magnitude is too low compared to other ST encounters and this power needs completely new stealthed effect and not something that may or may not work. Why use it from Stealth when there is a high chance it wont work?
Path of the Blade - used to be good for AP gain in old era but only for AP gain, over time. Now, it's good for nothing. Since its damage of time with high cooldown it needs a higher magnitude and what about additional AP gain over time as extra effect instead of faster pulse?
Smoke Bomb - only complaint is the long cooldown.
Bait and Switch - good for what? The main thing this encounter was used for was AP gain and now decoy gives none. Fix the AP gain from decoy, at least 10% AP bar otherwise new effect is needed and reduce encounter cooldowns by 1 second per hit that decoy takes. The encounter cd reduction part can be the new Stealthed effect since old one is meh.
Impossible to Catch - delete it, it's the worst encounter in m16. Design something new. Both effect and duration are terrible.
Deft Strike - needs new stealthed ability, there is no need to teleport to friendly targets and often is a mistake ppl dont want.
Wicked Reminder - needs a new Stealthed ability since current one is useless.
Dazing Strike - what's the purpose of this encounter, why slot it?
Vengeances Pursuit - delete this forever bugged encounter and just design new one.
Blitz - low damage, stealthed ability reduces cooldowns by 1sec??? longer animation than hidden daggers...
Impact Shot - bad overall, stealthed effect does lower damage than normal 3 charges based attack? remove charges, get new stealthed ability(adds bleed effect over 10 seconds which ends up doing the same damage as initial hit,~ 500 magnitude both).
Shadowy Disappearance - increase damage, add new stealthed effect - taking lower damage for 5 seconds after teleport.
Class features - so many are useless and all those based on Daily activation need another trigger.
Skillful infiltrator, Sneak Attack, Tenacious Concealment, Invisible infiltrator, Infiltrators Action, First Strike, Razor Action, Talisman of Shadows are all useless.
Advantageous position - needs to reduce all incoming damage, not just aoe and projectile.
Talisman of Shadows - the most useless one I guess.
II and IA - are a joke of the new era. From the best ones to worst. 5% damage for 5 seconds after Daily is bad for old era, it's unforgivable in new era.
If you want to base 1 or 2 of them on Daily better make the duration and effect worth slotting it.
Tactics - increasing AP gain... Is it really worth it? The best among the worst?
Feats - I wont go into them but they are equal mess to Powers... Gutterborn's touch, for example, 5000 accuracy as T5 feat, really??? Who cares for 5k accuracy stat? The other T5 option is Ambushers Haste - based on fullness of stealth meter while we fill stealth slower than before and use it up right away when we get it...
The class went from being the one with the best play style to one with the worst. The whole thing needs to be thought over how the fluidity of the combat will work, how the synergy between feats and class features and target's HP % works...
I am not impressed.
thefabricant said:
Stealth is an issue because it has no impact on gameplay. Players will position for CA, this means the only effect a TR gets from Stealth is the added effect. The added effect is essentially like the mastery bonus of a CW power, since you can choose only 1 power to get it at a time. Only CW can slot an extra power there and it gets a 20% damage boost. To put it simply, this is a butchered spell mastery.
ironcuttingsword#1719 said:
First we have stealth, which has lost crit chance which does affect powers like Lashing Blade to only have a chance for that added effect of Crit Severity. I agree CA is not good enough bonus for the Stealth mechanic.
talon1970 said:
....snip
Stealth is more or less useless now for a Tr and with a awful long recharged time.
Sometimes it seems for me it is nothing more now, that i can safe dodgeroll into an add group during questing and thats it..
blur#5900 said:
First thing to mention is Stealth class mechanic. It was useless before, it became even more useless than it used to be, it literally does nothing aside from giving encounters additional effect and that is nothing. MickyP00 made a decent suggestions regarding it. Another way to approach it would be like Divinity from clerics before mod16, permanent Stealth and only consumed by encounters based on their magnitude, starts refilling only when used up totally, otherwise it's not draining.
Stealth is in a sorry place. There are mechanics in place that hark back to changes made many modules ago that are now either irrelevant or heavy handed considering the Undermountain changes .
As it is, stealth as a hallmark of the class offers very little by way of benefit. Comparably against the tab powers on other classes I find myself again underwhelmed by the mechanics.
Bear in mind that this is compounded by the fact that the Assassin Paragon only benefits from one feat that involves the mechanic. Disparity without balance.
Currently if Stealth was an Ice cream flavour it would be Vanilla. I'm talking a cheap ice cream where the flavour is only just noticeable and you're left with a nasty after taste!
Please make this mechanic meaningful!
Also why was there basically no mention of the TR changes in the latest patch notes. There was mention of a fix where you can now actually create a decoy from bait and switch, but why was there absolutely no mention of the cool down and magnitude changes of a bunch of other encounters.
I am on console, but the changes immediately affected us on Ps4. My fl has drowned again 30%..just like a few months ago. Vorpal went from 2,4 mill to 5,2 mill ad on march 1st, etc....
Stealth is the "key" , maybe if stealh gave more benefits
while on stealth all the encounter and atwills teleport to the back of the target
while on stealth u generate 0 threat (aka no agro on pull)
stealth is now a worse spell mastery , since TR doesnt gain another encounter
Really sucks on things like Tong where Ras would be in the middle of the platform and I trigger a power from stealth as he teleports to the edge and I go right along with him and end up behind and falling to my death.
My original main on XB is TR however and I've played it for 4 years.
Regarding Stealth, I'm not sure exactly what it does do right now on Preview apart from act as an Alt Key for other powers, but the one thing it should, before ANYTHING else, do is zero out the TR's aggro.
If that's not happening right now, it damn well should do.