Official M16: Rogue

135678

Comments

  • sabre10
    sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    Here is what combat on M16 Rogue currently looks like:


    Rogue needs a top end Single Target damage reduction.

    I'm curious. Is the TR at Lvl 80 and did do you know if they fix the issues with scaling outside of the undermountain areas?
    aDXr4Ur.png
    Civil Anarchy Officer
    Fabled Alliance
  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    sabre10 said:

    Here is what combat on M16 Rogue currently looks like:


    Rogue needs a top end Single Target damage reduction.

    I'm curious. Is the TR at Lvl 80 and did do you know if they fix the issues with scaling outside of the undermountain areas?
    Level 80 Rogue and depending on the zone it is fixed. This is a rebalanced eSoT.
  • sabre10
    sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    sabre10 said:

    Here is what combat on M16 Rogue currently looks like:


    Rogue needs a top end Single Target damage reduction.

    I'm curious. Is the TR at Lvl 80 and did do you know if they fix the issues with scaling outside of the undermountain areas?
    Level 80 Rogue and depending on the zone it is fixed. This is a rebalanced eSoT.
    How does it compare vs CW? (mine isn't at this level)
    aDXr4Ur.png
    Civil Anarchy Officer
    Fabled Alliance
  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    sabre10 said:

    sabre10 said:

    Here is what combat on M16 Rogue currently looks like:


    Rogue needs a top end Single Target damage reduction.

    I'm curious. Is the TR at Lvl 80 and did do you know if they fix the issues with scaling outside of the undermountain areas?
    Level 80 Rogue and depending on the zone it is fixed. This is a rebalanced eSoT.
    How does it compare vs CW? (mine isn't at this level)
    Worse AoE, much better Single Target. Wizard is a better designed class, both its paths work and it only needs minor changes, where as TR needs a massive overhaul to make everything work.
  • bringer03
    bringer03 Member Posts: 6 Arc User

    sabre10 said:

    sabre10 said:

    Here is what combat on M16 Rogue currently looks like:


    Rogue needs a top end Single Target damage reduction.

    I'm curious. Is the TR at Lvl 80 and did do you know if they fix the issues with scaling outside of the undermountain areas?
    Level 80 Rogue and depending on the zone it is fixed. This is a rebalanced eSoT.
    How does it compare vs CW? (mine isn't at this level)
    Worse AoE, much better Single Target. Wizard is a better designed class, both its paths work and it only needs minor changes, where as TR needs a massive overhaul to make everything work.
    Especially the stealth meter.. should be last for long like mod 1, even if the encounters cooldowns are like 20-25sec, but at least make the stealth meter last for long aswell..
  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    Razor Action procs on every tick of Killing Storm.
  • chalumeau#8710
    chalumeau#8710 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I Became the became with mod 14 and TR was my first and favorite character though it's quite different as it's in other MMO's where his rôle is also to support group, so I have many questions for mod 16 :
    1) Is there any power that inflicts DOT and debuff apart smoke bomb (like poison for example) ? It should be an interesting alternative to specialise instead of direct damage
    2) Any feat useful to the group or is it still only a solo DPS ? Since mod 15, I've never seen any announce looking for A TR. Is there a chance that it changes ?
    3) last , is there at least an credible alternative to Orcus set since mod 16 was supposed to give more choices to players
    the previous post make me think we're going to an unique way to play it in PVE so please can we have stuff that can give us more options ?
  • silvertail
    silvertail Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 97 Arc User
    On live I have a 13.6 il and I only have 4204 recovery. After looking at the cool down speeds on the Assassin this is what I found.
    Skill Live Preview
    Impossible to Catch 13sec 21sec
    Blade Flurry 16sec 15sec
    Smoke Bomb 13sec 21sec
    Wicked Reminder 3 charges no cool down time 17sec
    Path of the Blade 19sec 24sec
    Bait and Switch 18sec 23sec
    Lashing Blade 15sec 15sec
    Deft Strike 11sec 14sec
    Dazing Strike 8sec 10sec

    One or two skills match a 4k recovery but other don't. Could we get all of them to match a 4k recovery? We wouldn't be able to spam encounter's but we would be able to do a rotation with them to do the dps we all want. I'm not sure about others but even being used to not be able to spam my encounter powers I find that I'm not able to find a good rotation. On live I throw smoke bomb to daze so i can then go in and kill. On mod 16 I find that if i do this I'm not able to hit smoke bomb for another group of mobs without waiting close to 10 sec or more before engaging. So maybe having a universal recovery rate on encounters would help. I ok with the cool down on some of the skills but those aren't the ones I like to use since I very rarely fight only one mob at a time.
    stealth is survival skills (and not tanking skills, that is really different)
    stealth is damage
    stealth is mobility
    stealth is everything
    everything is stealth
    Stealth make TR OP, but lack of stealth make TR useless.
  • ironcuttingsword#1719
    ironcuttingsword#1719 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    Thowing my 2cents in, mostly reiterate what others have contributed.

    First we have stealth, which has lost crit chance which does affect powers like Lashing Blade to only have a chance for that added effect of Crit Severity. I agree CA is not good enough bonus for the Stealth mechanic.

    Whisperknife has an interesting style of stealth and ranged. I fear its just gonna get forgotten again as the current powers and feats don't support the paragon path. As what do to improve it, I have no clue, I just know any small buff to current powers and feats won't do a heck of alot.

    Assassin I feel is not in a good spot when it loses that cooldown bug. Just some high damage encounters with with long cooldowns. Doesn't seem very fun.

    Both paragons need their share of work, as they stand now they don't offer much in the way synergy with their powers, feats, and playstyle.
  • omgmundooo
    omgmundooo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I played a bit my Tr on preview, this is what i think. ( English is not my main language).

    I dislike the new stealth mechanic: granting me combat advantage, i will probably have combat advantage anyway by positioning toward my pet or my teammates...


    Wk is underwhelming:

    - I was using, PotB, Sb, blitz, Wob, Tactics, Razor Action for AoE. Once i am on cooldowns, i just hide in a corner for refilll and fight the next pack of mobs. This is really slow.
    - At wills damage are meh.
    - Sod should be on the assassin paragon.
    - I dislike shuriken toss. It does nothing. I like the idea to be a ninja but not a bad one.

    As i was leveling i started to struggle a bit, so i swapped to Assassin for Aoe AND single target.

    Assassin:

    - The cooldows are still slow to refill, but i don't struggle to kill higher Lvl mobs. And since it does a better job than wk i won't bother with wk anymore.
    - Why bloodbath isn't on the wk paragon ? I can see a point but it is very minimal. Like dodging winter chill of drufy.
    - Infiltrator's action: I don't think having Combat advantage after a daily is usefull. Positioning is an overall better strategy. I dislike this feat.
    - Potb shouldn't be in this paragon.

    That's a bit short for a feedback, if i feel the need to add something, i will write a new post.
    Cheers.

    BlopusCorpus







  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    And while we are at balancing why do we tr not have any fireball or combo attack with flames? its really upsetting that SW has sth like that and we dont pls put it in instead of lashing blade

    Slot in Flaming, problem solved series over.



    Path 2: Swashbuckler/Duelist (The new path). This is going to be a tank path for rogue. Yep, you heard me, I am mad. A tank. Mechanically, tab will change from stealth to duelist's stance, which is a toggle. While it is active, you move at half of base speed and shift is changed from a dodge to riposte. The way riposte works is as follows:

    • Perfect Riposte: If you press shift within 0.25 seconds of it hitting you, you mitigate 100% of the incoming hit and your cooldowns are reduced by 1 second.
    • Adequate Riposte: If you press shift within 0.25-0.5 seconds of the incoming hit, you mitigate 80% of the incoming hit, then lose stamina proportional to the percentage of hp lost.
    • Riposte: If you press shift within 0.5-1 second of the incoming hit, you mitigate 50% of the incoming hit, then lose stamina proportional to the percentage of hp lost.
    • If your timing is out by over 1 second, you take full damage and stamina is not consumed.
    I'd call the mechanic Parry because a Riposte is the counter attack after you parry an attack.

    To save on programming/animations, I'd suggest the Tab mechanic recycles discount dracula's idle pose which has a distinct en garde fencing stance.

    This sounds fun, but I don't know how well this would go down for some players, as the spec is practically unworkable depending on where you live (read: not camping on top of the servers).

    also if this realistically happens I hate you for making me want to main Rogue
    also if this happens I want dreadnought to become a healer path so I can finally be healer GF

  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    After changing the rogue's powers, I would then change its feats as follows:

    Whisperknife:
    Level 1:
    Master of Shadows - Replace Last Moments.
    Shady Preparations - Can Stay.

    Level 2:
    Dark Reimbursement - Can Stay.
    Hidden Attacks - Can Stay.

    Level 3:
    One with the Shadows - Can Stay.
    Return to the Shadows - Can Stay.

    Level 4:
    Shadowy Opportunity - Can Stay.
    Shadow of Demise - Can Stay.

    Level 5:
    Skullcracker - Replace Gutterborn's Touch.
    Toxic Blades - Replace Ambusher's Haste.

    Duelist:
    Level 1:
    Feign Death - If an attack would reduce you to 0 hitpoints, instead set you to 40% hitpoints. This can only occur once every 2 minutes.
    Death Wish - When you drop below 40% hitpoints, gain 25% increased damage for 10 seconds.

    Level 2:
    Uncanny Evasion - Your Immunity Frames last 0.15 seconds longer, but you take 10% increased damage from hits.
    Brutality - Your Immunity Frames are 0.15 seconds shorter, but you deal 25% increased damage.

    Level 3:
    Infuriating Finesse - Whenever you successfully parry an attack, generate 25% more threat for the next 4 seconds.
    Collateral Damage - Whenever you successfully parry an attack, deal 20 magnitude damage to all enemies in 10'.

    Level 4:
    Crude Parry - Adequate Parries have the damage reduction of a perfect parry, but perfect parry consumes stamina as if you had performed an Adequate parry.
    Parry Mastery - You cannot make a normal parry but perfect riposte's cause your next 4 hits automatically critical hit.

    Level 5:
    Risky Actions - Taking a single hit for more than 35% of your hitpoints increases your damage by 20% for 6 seconds and reduces your cooldowns by 3 seconds.
    Defensive Posture - Lose 5% less stamina and take 5% less damage when you perform a normal riposte.
  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    edited March 2019


    Level 2:
    Uncanny Evasion - Your Immunity Frames last 0.15 seconds longer, but you take 10% increased damage from hits.

    You do realize that this feat has a dulled edge :smirk: in the face of unavoidable damage, right?

    This would just be a penalty at that point.

    Also, I am not sure that 9 or so frames would be a perceivable enough difference for people to notice.



    Duelist:

    Level 4:
    Riposte Mastery - You cannot make a normal riposte but perfect riposte's cause your next 4 hits automatically critical hit.

    I would hope that these 4 hits aren't consumed by random hits or from DoTs like "Duelist's" Flurry (really, who uses a rapier like you're carving up a boar for dinner?).


    Defensive Posture - Lose 5% less stamina and take 5% less damage when you perform a normal riposte.

    I'd change it to be 10% on each, possibly more depending on how things go.

    For level 80 feat, 5% is a big letdown. I'd also argue 5% is not really perceivable and I doubt it will make Duelist more consistent apart from "numbers alone".

  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    Class Features:

    General:
    • Skillful Infiltrator
    • Tactics
    • Infiltrator's Action
    • Oppressive Darkness
    Whisperknife:
    • Sneak Attack
    • Tenacious Concealment
    • Invisible Infiltrator
    • Advantageous Position
    Duelist:
    • Dazzling Blades - Take and deal 5% increased damage. Your at wills generate 10% more threat.
    • Intuition - Taking a hit grants you intuition, reducing the damage from that hit by 20% and reducing hits for the next 6 seconds by 10%, then going on cooldown for 14 seconds.
    • Counterstrike - 30% chance to deal 200 magnitude damage when you iframe or parry an attack.
    • Long Winded - Lose 10% less stamina when you adequate or normal parry.
  • akemnos
    akemnos Member Posts: 597 Arc User
    Agreed that TR is in a bad place. I mean it is pretty bad when one of the top theory people in the game has resorted to making up a Tank TR as he really cant figure out anywhere else to go with the class. Not to mention as has been pointed out repeatedly how useless Stealth is.

    Also why was there basically no mention of the TR changes in the latest patch notes. There was mention of a fix where you can now actually create a decoy from bait and switch, but why was there absolutely no mention of the cool down and magnitude changes of a bunch of other encounters.

  • werdandi#8366
    werdandi#8366 Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    I feel sorry for you guys. Seems everything is messy and needs to be rethought from scratch :(
  • yoko#8608
    yoko#8608 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    What I dont get at all.... why is SoD on the aoe wk path? Will it be a forced playstyle to hit the biggest mob with SoD first and then go for bladeflurry or smoke bomb to get use of it? Will it get changed back to assasin(exe)?

    I am on console, but the changes immediately affected us on Ps4. My fl has drowned again 30%..just like a few months ago. Vorpal went from 2,4 mill to 5,2 mill ad on march 1st, etc....
  • skuallpw
    skuallpw Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    my main question is why would any1 play TR over HR , GWF , or any other dps path?

    Stealth is the "key" , maybe if stealh gave more benefits

    while on stealth all the encounter and atwills teleport to the back of the target
    while on stealth u generate 0 threat (aka no agro on pull)

    stealth is now a worse spell mastery , since TR doesnt gain another encounter
    Post edited by skuallpw on
  • akemnos
    akemnos Member Posts: 597 Arc User
    skuallpw said:

    my main question is why would any1 play TR over HR , GWF , or any other dps path?

    while on stealth all the encounter and atwills teleport to the back of the target

    This is actually bad. any map that has drops at the end would end up spelling death for TR's. I used Deft strike for quite awhile for extra movement/dodge around the battlefield and I cant tell you how many times I accidentally ported off the side of a cliff after using it, and that wasn't even while stealthed. What you propose there is the same but with every power.

    Really sucks on things like Tong where Ras would be in the middle of the platform and I trigger a power from stealth as he teleports to the edge and I go right along with him and end up behind and falling to my death.
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    I'm unable to get on preview with a TR at the moment. (Only have an OP on PC and my PC is playing silly buggers so leveling a new toon is... problematic)

    My original main on XB is TR however and I've played it for 4 years.

    Regarding Stealth, I'm not sure exactly what it does do right now on Preview apart from act as an Alt Key for other powers, but the one thing it should, before ANYTHING else, do is zero out the TR's aggro.

    If that's not happening right now, it damn well should do.