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Official M16: Stats and Mechanics

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  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    <font color=cyan>The main problem I with the new stats system is the large number of equipment, enchantments, companion boni, even insignias which give both critical strike and combat advantage and therefor become bad choices and a nuisance for any player trying to get the most out of their character. This bad combination of stats is EVERYWHERE at the moment. It will be really frustrating going through dozens of items with all of them having bad stats.

    The same goes for defense and deflect.

    Please try and remove these combinations from maybe not all but at least most items.</font>
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    artifleur said:

    The main problem I with the new stats system is the large number of equipment, enchantments, companion boni, even insignias which give both critical strike and combat advantage and therefor become bad choices and a nuisance for any player trying to get the most out of their character. This bad combination of stats is EVERYWHERE at the moment. It will be really frustrating going through dozens of items with all of them having bad stats.



    The same goes for defense and deflect.

    As far as Crit Strike and Combat Advantage are concerned, yes...it generally makes little sense to put points into both of them. Ignore both, or focus on the one that makes more sense for your class/build. After all, if you have less than 24.000 points (assuming lvl 80 player fighting lvl 80 mobs), you could just as well have 0 points there. Perhaps some "glass cannon" builds that focus entirely on offensive stats could get away with a "High-Crit/High-CA" build - I'm not sure, but for any normal build it is one or the other, so yes...gear that gives both Crit Strike and Combat Advantage is generally not desirable.

    The situation for Defense and Deflect is similar. If you have less than 24000 you might just as well have zero points in the stat, so generally focus on one and ignore the other. Perhaps, a "high-Defense/high-deflection" build would work work for some supertank build that essentially ignores all offensive stat (essentially the opposite of the "glass cannon"), but for any normal build, it is one or the other, so yes, gear that gives both Defense and Deflect is generally not desirable.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    Not sure if this is the right place for this.

    I shifted my GWF from the SH (lvl 80) to PE (lvl 70)

    My IL went up, as did my power and crit while my ArPen and defence went down.

    Can somebody please explain what's happening here (in both cases at rest with campfire buff).
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    I've already commented on my dislike for the universal bonuses from stats, due to the Primary / Secondary stats leading to false impressions on what is important to a character. With that in mind, if the devs aren't willing to make Primary / Secondary stats individualized based on class, I'd propose something like this:

    Current:
    STR: Stamina regen; Physical dmg boost
    CON: Max hit points / Action Point gain
    DEX: Crit severity / Movement speed
    INT: Control Bonus / Magical dmg boost
    WIS: Control resist / Incoming healing
    CHA: Companion stat bonus / Recharge speed

    Proposed:
    STR: Physical dmg boost
    CON: Max hit points /Stamina regen
    DEX: Crit severity / Movement speed
    INT: Magical dmg boost
    WIS: Control resist / Incoming healing / Action Point gain / Control Bonus
    CHA: Companion stat bonus / Recharge speed

    My reasoning: Under the current system there is very little reason to put points into WIS. Adding damage, though, is never really a bad choice, and one players will usually seek out, regardless of other stats being adjusted as well. By making INT and STR only boost damage, it creates a choice - does the player add a bit of damage, or go after a different stat, that may add more bonuses. Stamina regen makes more sense under CON, while both Control Resist / Bonus are better represented by WIS (aka willpower). The addition of AP gain in WIS adds some additional appeal to the stat (along with the fact that it adds to *4* different - although mainly situational - stats).

    Consequences: Physical classes (Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue) are now left to choose between adding damage (STR), Crit severity (DEX), HP (CON), or recharge speed (CHA). All mostly applicable across the class, and fit nicely with a number of archetypes in D&D. Casters are in a similar situation - a straight damage boost (INT), adding a stronger control element to their spells (WIS), or casting faster (CHA), which again matches fairly well with PnP D&D, and makes a bit more logical sense.

    Hybrids like the Ranger and Paladin are somewhat stuck in that their usual PnP casting stat (WIS) adds no damage, but the AP gain and control bonuses are useful (control for Ranger roots, incoming healing / control resist for a Paladin tank, AP gain always welcome).

    What we get left with then, is a situation where a characters Primary and Secondary stats are - generally - accurate. A DPS Cleric will still likely be dumping their points into INT, not WIS, and the STR Secondary should be swapped to CON for Clerics, but otherwise, it seems to offer each class a solid reason to stick with their Primary / Secondary stats, but also allow some flexibility to depart from them if a player wants to.
  • anjo#8313 anjo Member Posts: 29 Arc User

    I did a test with 28k accuracy and still mobs-bosses can deflect attack.

    I think the caps that had been told us is for normal mobs, not those found in dungeons
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    A thought on the balancing of power damage, particularly for tank classes:


    You've told us that your paradigm is that at-wills provide 1/5 of your damage, with the rest being 1/5 from each encounter power and 1/5 from your dailies. I don't think there's anything wrong with this model per se, but it doesn't currently reflect for tanks because of how much time each tank class spends blocking- if you drop your guard, it's generally going to be for an Encounter that's come off cooldown, rather than to trade hits where it feels like you've got a wiffle bat and the other guy's got a classic slugger.

    At the very least, I'd suggest rolling back the tank spec damage penalty for atwills, maybe even add a Riposte mechanic where blocking attacks gives you a short duration of bonus atwill damage- not enough to make them hit like Encounters, obviously, but enough to constitute a damage increase proportional to the amount of time you expect us to spend blocking and encourage us to stop blocking to get a hit i.

    On the topic, given that tanks spend less of their time attacking (as it's generally our job to make the healer's life easier by blocking a hit, even with Encounters off cooldown, rather than to keep attacking unless we're actively losing threat), is the damage penalty even needed at all? We're not generally going to outdps the dps in our groups, since we'll be in front of the mobs(no consistent Combat Advantage, less incentive to gear for it), we won't be chasing offensive stats as hard due to needing to balance them with defensive ones, and we have less offensive uptime due to blocking when the dps is attacking.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    A thought on the balancing of power damage, particularly for tank classes:


    You've told us that your paradigm is that at-wills provide 1/5 of your damage, with the rest being 1/5 from each encounter power and 1/5 from your dailies. I don't think there's anything wrong with this model per se, but it doesn't currently reflect for tanks because of how much time each tank class spends blocking- if you drop your guard, it's generally going to be for an Encounter that's come off cooldown, rather than to trade hits where it feels like you've got a wiffle bat and the other guy's got a classic slugger.

    At the very least, I'd suggest rolling back the tank spec damage penalty for atwills, maybe even add a Riposte mechanic where blocking attacks gives you a short duration of bonus atwill damage- not enough to make them hit like Encounters, obviously, but enough to constitute a damage increase proportional to the amount of time you expect us to spend blocking and encourage us to stop blocking to get a hit in.

    On the topic, given that tanks spend less of their time attacking (as it's generally our job to make the healer's life easier by blocking a hit, even with Encounters off cooldown, rather than to keep attacking unless we're actively losing threat), is the damage penalty even needed at all? We're not generally going to outdps the dps in our groups, since we'll be in front of the mobs(no consistent Combat Advantage, less incentive to gear for it), we won't be chasing offensive stats as hard due to needing to balance them with defensive ones, and we have less offensive uptime due to blocking when the dps is attacking.


    (EDIT: I've been trying for five minutes to get the forum to accept cyan text formatting, but I think I'm HTMLing wrong. Can we get text color options for our posts so people who don't know HTML can give useful feedback?)
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    cdnbison said:


    What we get left with then, is a situation where a characters Primary and Secondary stats are - generally - accurate.

    Not quite. A part of the problem is that the game does not distinguish between Arcane and Divine magical damage, which D&D traditionally did.

    INT should boost (Arcane) magical damage for Wizards and Warlocks, but WIS should boost (Divine) magical damage for Clerics and Paladins.

    STR should boost Melee damage and DEX should probably boost projectile damage.

    Finally, some stat (ideally WIS) should boost Outgoing Healing.

    This way we should have something which looks OK from a D&D perspective.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • silverwolf#7884 silverwolf Member Posts: 177 Arc User


    But what @thefabricant says in that, is that an opponent can have a matching figured percentage, that can flat out mitigate the chance to zero. And that doesn't seem to make sense.

    The bonus to Critical Strike is the equivalent of having 2500 Critical Strike as a base. This can be fully negated by an enemy. If you have 20,000 Critical Strike and the enemy has 22,500 Critical Avoidance, your crit chance will be 0.

    Where as if your enemy has 20,000 Critical Avoidance, instead of being fully cancelled out, you have a 5% chance due to the base 5% addition.
    Then you need to change it to simply provide a starting base to the STAT of 2500, and not say that a figured PERCENTAGE has a "Base" because it doesn't.
    For how Neverwinter now works a statement that "Critical Strike is increased by 2500" and "Critical Chance is increased by 5%" are synonymous. If it was ever something that was going to apply outside of ratings or exceed a ratings effective cap, it would be called out specifically as doing that.

    Ratings themselves don't actually do anything to your character, they get converted into the absolute percent value and that is what affects the character.
    @noworries#8859 The tooltip is ambiguous; it can read as having two possible meanings.

    5% of 100% in this game is now 2500 stat points for Critical Strike, so if I have 20,000 (40%) stat points and I add 5% then I have 22,500 (45%) stat points, [additive] therefore from that point of view the tooltip is correct.

    However, it can also be read that it will increase my current stat points by 5%. If I have 20,000 stat points (40%) and increase by 5% I would have 20,000 * 1.05 = 21,000 [multiplicative].

    Because of this ambiguity, it would be a simple change to adjust the tooltip to read in a clear way without any other possible meaning being inferred. It probably took you more time to respond to the original poster to defend the wording than to actually just make the simple change. Remember, after the furore of Mod 16 dies down, not everyone is going to be checking the forums to find out what one tooltip actually means and then there will be confusion for players that have not been here already.

    Please, just make the change to the tooltip.
  • pyc87pyc87 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    Good day.
    Immediately I apologize for the grammar and punctuation, since I do not know more than one Latin adverb, and I use Google as a translator.
    From the translations of your streams that I got caught, I realized that the situation with the diversity of the game does not suit you and you decided to eliminate any opportunities for character development in a different way. As a player who has dedicated the game for more than one year, I can say with confidence that the game is one build in one class for a carbon copy, with the current capabilities, the fate of minded people and beginners who simply copy guides, not trying to create their own. I am very sad that you remove this diversity, because playing with 6 classes I always created a build myself, and for myself, which did not prevent me from being a player close to the tops. This was part of the interest of the game, a large number of builds, a build for each situation. Even now I have builds on the tank: dd tactics, surviving tactics, defender and dd. And there are several builds on the Berse, where only the transfered characteristics cubes differ. If it is so important for you that the newbies are not confused in the characteristics, make sure that the cubes are fixed when creating the first character (by the way, there is still such a moment: before m16 when creating a character, the cubes were without descriptions of what they give, and the novice has there are very few chances to guess where a bonus is, experienced players create it twice when creating a new class).
    Now I would like to say more about the mechanics of the game.
    Playing a tank for 5 years, I studied it up and down, I was not afraid of the return of a shield mechanic or knightly prowess, but I only consider brute force to select a single long-range solo from taba. And his replacement on the squat, does not fit in my head at all. You take one of the most dynamic and mobile classes and plant it in one place.
    The game was interesting diversity, but now you make universal uniformity.
     Thank you for your attention, I hope this message even someone will read.
    Sincerely, Player Rus
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    cdnbison said:


    What we get left with then, is a situation where a characters Primary and Secondary stats are - generally - accurate.

    Not quite. A part of the problem is that the game does not distinguish between Arcane and Divine magical damage, which D&D traditionally did.

    INT should boost (Arcane) magical damage for Wizards and Warlocks, but WIS should boost (Divine) magical damage for Clerics and Paladins.

    STR should boost Melee damage and DEX should probably boost projectile damage.

    Finally, some stat (ideally WIS) should boost Outgoing Healing.

    This way we should have something which looks OK from a D&D perspective.
    My first post (earlier in this thread, I think) on the subject addressed that, yeah - so I fully agree with you. *If*, however, they are married to the idea of stats offering the same bonuses to all classes, though, I offered an alternative that (mostly) covers things. I'd still prefer the bonuses be addressed by class, though, and not a universal, one-size-fits-all version.
  • anjo#8313 anjo Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    = High Cooldowns with only 3 power? Nosense.
    = Stats like zero if it isnt above some number? Nosense.
    = New gear that gives me worse bonuses and good stats? Crazy, I'm DPS and I will keep almost all my gear from chult and barovia hunts.
    = Tootltip "increased 5%" being not 5% of what you have, instead is 5% of a number that nobody knows? What, really?!
    = Stats/bonuses of 1.5k, 2K, 2.5k with new caps is almost useless.
    = No roll stats ? Pala healer with 8 CHA ??? Reeeeally?
    = Halfling bonus 1.5k deflect? Useless.
    = Remove AP gain from orcus set and decreased his stats? Cheating on players.
    = TR's paths is so messed up. Ranged atack? Give us a multitarget/single buld, if we want a ranged class with choose hunter or mages and stuffs.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    adinosii said:



    INT should boost (Arcane) magical damage for Wizards and Warlocks, but WIS should boost (Divine) magical damage for Clerics and Paladins.

    STR should boost Melee damage and DEX should probably boost projectile damage.

    Finally, some stat (ideally WIS) should boost Outgoing Healing.

    This way we should have something which looks OK from a D&D perspective.

    Warlocks and Paladins are Charisma, bro

  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User


    I logged in my level 70 Paladin yesterday and started working on making the "new" character under the new system.

    I know that DPS isn't a role for Paladins, but I thought that since I would be spending most of my time in close combat that improving strength wouldn't be the worst idea, so I dumped everything that I could into strength.

    End result? 19 strength. Physical damage bonus? 0%.

    Uhmmm…. So why did I do this? Why would anyone do this?

  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    edited March 2019



    I logged in my level 70 Paladin yesterday and started working on making the "new" character under the new system.

    I know that DPS isn't a role for Paladins, but I thought that since I would be spending most of my time in close combat that improving strength wouldn't be the worst idea, so I dumped everything that I could into strength.

    End result? 19 strength. Physical damage bonus? 0%.

    Uhmmm…. So why did I do this? Why would anyone do this?

    Either tooltip or Strength is broken; we're pretty HAMSTER sure that's not WAI
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,372 Arc User



    Either tooltip or Strength is broken; we're pretty HAMSTER sure that's not WAI

    It's more of "the damage bonus on Strength is 0.25% per point and due to the immeasurably small percentage, the game won't display it", but it doesn't have the same ring as "we are making the game simpler for new players"

  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:



    Either tooltip or Strength is broken; we're pretty HAMSTER sure that's not WAI

    It's more of "the damage bonus on Strength is 0.25% per point and due to the immeasurably small percentage, the game won't display it", but it doesn't have the same ring as "we are making the game simpler for new players"
    Even if that were the case, a strength of 19 would have granted a 2.25% damage bonus. The game absolutely does display numbers that small.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:



    Either tooltip or Strength is broken; we're pretty HAMSTER sure that's not WAI

    It's more of "the damage bonus on Strength is 0.25% per point and due to the immeasurably small percentage, the game won't display it", but it doesn't have the same ring as "we are making the game simpler for new players"
    Well, I play a Wizard, and my Int 32 isn't giving me +3% damage bonus either, so I'm pretty sure neither Str nor Int is WAI
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    rjc9000 said:



    Either tooltip or Strength is broken; we're pretty HAMSTER sure that's not WAI

    It's more of "the damage bonus on Strength is 0.25% per point and due to the immeasurably small percentage, the game won't display it", but it doesn't have the same ring as "we are making the game simpler for new players"
    Well, I play a Wizard, and my Int 32 isn't giving me +3% damage bonus either, so I'm pretty sure neither Str nor Int is WAI
    They work, they just don't display correctly on the UI.
  • jelara1jelara1 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    Just curious, why are my stats different in the Workshop than they are in Protector's Enclave? In fact they are higher in the Workshop. I wouldn't expect that scaling was taking place in either location.

    The character is still level 70 (13.5k on live, so very mid level), just recently copied from live, I've been spending all my time so far in PE just looking at things, have not ventured out to start the new zones, or even any old zones. I may have invoked this morning, can't recall. I have only done a little with getting my character reset (so took the offered reset on powers that were out of sync), played around with and regeared my companions, haven't worked on feats, mounts, or ability stats yet, and was just starting on rearranging some enchantments.

    ILvl and Power were unchanged between the two zones, but for example Armor Pen is 25009 in PE and 26259 in the Workshop. Defense is 12528 in PE and 14378 in the Workshop. Crit Strike is 32565 in PE and 34415 in the Workshop.

    Which is actually my correct "unscaled" values?

    I think I may have briefly seen my defense hit 16k in the Workshop (without any gear changes, I was just looking a jewelry), but when I zoned it went back to 12, and I couldn't recreate the steps to make that happen, whereas I can see the shift between the values listed above as I go back and forth between the two zones.
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 240 Arc User

    TL;DR: Make the opposing stats work by multiplication, instead of subtraction.

    The current implementation of opposing stats is not great because, if your stat isn't *at least* as high as the opposing stat of the enemy, it literally does *nothing*, so your first 24k points of defense are totally useless against level 80 enemies (for instance). Same for Crit, Combat Advantage and Deflect.

    So, my suggestion: it should work by multiplication. If your "default" crit chance is 50% and the enemy crit resist is 60%, your chance to crit should be 20% (40% of 50%), not 0. Likewise, if your Damage Reduced is 80% and the enemy Armor Pen is 57%, the final reduction should be 50.4% (63% of 80%), not 23%. Of course, this system would require a different curve for the stats, because the current curve would make it terribly unbalanced. A cap lesser than 100% for opposing percentages might also be a good idea.

    This leads to a problem: players might want to just reach the caps (or 100%) on all opposing stats, and then just forget about them, no matter how hard future content may be, because it would work for all current and future enemies. To avoid this, the opposing percent reduction should also be based on the enemy level, not only the opposing stat. Example: 20k crit resist would be a 50% reduction against lvl 80 enemies, and 45% against lvl 82 enemies (these numbers are just for demonstration). The same applies to Armor Penetration, Accuracy and Awareness.

    So, when future mods introduce harder monsters, players would still have to increase their opposing stats to be effective, as monsters aren't affected by a level cap.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    The real solution is to reduce the effectiveness of each point of stat, but give players higher base stats.

    The goal is that you're lowering the "minimum needed" threshold, but not lowering the "maximum useful" threshold.

    The minimum needed for a stat should be ~ what you expect a toon to have from combined rating and "mandatory" sources.

    That way, ADDITIONAL points from enchants will always have an impact.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2019


    TL;DR: Make the opposing stats work by multiplication, instead of subtraction.

    The current implementation of opposing stats is not great because, if your stat isn't *at least* as high as the opposing stat of the enemy, it literally does *nothing*, so your first 24k points of defense are totally useless against level 80 enemies (for instance). Same for Crit, Combat Advantage and Deflect.

    So, my suggestion: it should work by multiplication. If your "default" crit chance is 50% and the enemy crit resist is 60%, your chance to crit should be 20% (40% of 50%), not 0. Likewise, if your Damage Reduced is 80% and the enemy Armor Pen is 57%, the final reduction should be 50.4% (63% of 80%), not 23%. Of course, this system would require a different curve for the stats, because the current curve would make it terribly unbalanced. A cap lesser than 100% for opposing percentages might also be a good idea.

    This leads to a problem: players might want to just reach the caps (or 100%) on all opposing stats, and then just forget about them, no matter how hard future content may be, because it would work for all current and future enemies. To avoid this, the opposing percent reduction should also be based on the enemy level, not only the opposing stat. Example: 20k crit resist would be a 50% reduction against lvl 80 enemies, and 45% against lvl 82 enemies (these numbers are just for demonstration). The same applies to Armor Penetration, Accuracy and Awareness.

    So, when future mods introduce harder monsters, players would still have to increase their opposing stats to be effective, as monsters aren't affected by a level cap.

    YOU are 100% correct that we have a stat-negation problem. About 10 posters have pointed this out.
    • Stat points in any stat other than power or health, have ZERO effect until they reach a threshold. This will lead to players stacking all points into a few categories and attempting to "Zero OUT" their other stats. This is un-natural and will break the game.



      Luckily, the solution is both simple and mandatory:

      Give each named monster type a value of 0 to 20 potency in each statistic, with an average of 10.
      The game will multiply: 25 point packets X level of the area X stat potency


      This will give creatures some low stats and some high stats, maintaining the same average amount. This will be huge because then a player in a zone with a 16,000 average enemy stat number, will actually benefit from having less than 16,000 of a stat. It will add strategy and teamwork because each player will have certain enemies it excels against or has a harder time against.

      Power needs 10 - 30 packets to ensure it has 'some' damage. All other stats should be 0-20. Health can be handled any way the developers want. Keep it the same or give it whatever packet range suits their need for difficulty and pacing. The universal packet size I used is 25, but 20 would be fine too. The 'correct' amount is in the 20-25 range. The total sum of stat potency for each creature comes to 100 + health potency.


      SO... looking at Ravenloft... lets create a sample packet template for a creature:

      Name: Undead Rider
      Health: 100
      Power: 25
      Critical: 15
      Combat Advantage: 19
      Accuracy: 3
      Armor Penetration: 12
      Defense: 8
      Deflect: 13
      Crit Resist: 1
      Awareness: 9


      Since Barovia is level 70 and universal packet size is 25, we mulitiply the potencies by 1,750 (70 x 25) to get:

      Name: Undead Rider
      Health: 175,000
      Power: 43,750
      Critical: 26,250 (52.5%)
      Combat Advantage: 33,250 (66.5%)
      Accuracy: 5,250 (10.5%)
      Armor Penetration: 21,000 (42%)
      Defense: 14,000 (28%)
      Deflect: 22,750 (45.5%)
      Crit Resist: 1,750 (3.5%)
      Awareness: 15,750 (31.5%)


      As you can see.. it now has the same average base stats, but one (crit resist) is as low as 1,750... which means it is susceptible to critical hits. Even a Paladin with a meager 4,250 Critical points now has a 5% chance to critical hit this enemy. Whalah!... the 4,250 points were never wasted now, were they?


      Since speed is of the essence, the programmers should simply randomize the packets for now, and maybe hand adjust a few. They will need to adjust the balance to make sense later. For instance.. it would feel wrong to have a "Dread Knight" opponent with low Defense so it might need adjustment, but just getting the variation for now should be priority.







    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I see a real pitfall for new players or players who don't scrutinize these forums: it's not at all clear in the game that having stats below a certain threshold will have zero effect. It's indeed counterintuitive: people will expect that putting points into a stat will always have some positive result.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    One more thing about this change.

    You remove AC which was giving heavy armor more defence then less armor then you give tanks a 30% flat damage reduction IN SPITE that they have to give up damage stats for defence stats hence already have a lower dps.

    In pen and paper or in most games Tank classes have a higher base HP then caster for the natural reason they are more phyical resistant per see.

    Why in heaven and earth name when you do this major overhaul, removing AC and gives the tanks a damage reduction do you keep insisting that all classes have the same amount of base hp.,

    Isen´t this the perfect time to finally give heavy armor classes like Pal and Gf a higher base hp and add significantly more hp on heavy armor.

    I can not for my life figure out why this has not been done already, not only are that a natural sulotion to make tanks well tanks it would also very much help this modules aim when it comes to building tanks toward other classes.

    Best
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    We should be able to re-roll our characters on start of mod 16, since our previous stats were clearly for a completely different system, and it should not be auto-assigned by game. The developers are assigning point to meaningless stats (looking at you, Wisdom), that should be completely dumped by any toon (including DC, since it provides no useful bonuses).

    Based on the usefulness of the stats in mod 16, I would take substantially different stats, than the developers would assign.

    Also this stat re-roll should not reset character appearance.


    As an example, I can see dumping all but the mandatory DEX from my GWF, since Critical Strikes will no longer be needed for my build, I'm planning on dumping it for power (ie, I'll stack Combat Advantage, Accuracy, & Power, and zero out Critical Strikes).
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    In my post above, I did not realize a non-linear system was already in place per level for enemy stats. Given that case, if every enemy stat were given a potency rating from 1-20 (for scaling purposes), 10% of the current values shown below would be the multiplier to potency. Having a generalized potency makes it easier to scale between dungeons, intro areas, challenge modes etc., and to port those (or similar) foes to new future modes. It also solves the current problem of 'lower-than-threshold' stats being worthless for player builds.

    Level 1: 10
    Level 2: 20
    Level 3: 30
    Level 4: 50
    Level 5: 70
    Level 6: 90 
    Level 7: 110
    Level 8: 130
    Level 9: 150
    Level 10: 200
    Level 11: 250
    Level 12: 300
    Level 13: 350
    Level 14: 400
    Level 15: 450
    Level 16: 500
    Level 17: 550
    Level 18: 600
    Level 19: 650
    Level 20: 700
    Level 21: 750
    Level 22: 800
    Level 23: 850
    Level 24: 900
    Level 25: 1000
    Level 26: 1100
    Level 27: 1200
    Level 28: 1300
    Level 29: 1400
    Level 30: 1500
    Level 31: 1600
    Level 32: 1700
    Level 33: 1800
    Level 34: 1900
    Level 35: 2050
    Level 36: 2200
    Level 37: 2450
    Level 38: 2600
    Level 39: 2850
    Level 40: 3000
    Level 41: 3200
    Level 42: 3400
    Level 43: 3600
    Level 44: 3800
    Level 45: 4000
    Level 46: 4200
    Level 47: 4400
    Level 48: 4600
    Level 49: 4800
    Level 50: 5000
    Level 51: 5250
    Level 52: 5500
    Level 53: 5750
    Level 54: 6000
    Level 55: 6250
    Level 56: 6500
    Level 57: 6750
    Level 58: 7000
    Level 59: 7250
    Level 60: 7500
    Level 61: 7750
    Level 62: 8000
    Level 63: 8500
    Level 64: 9000
    Level 65: 9500
    Level 66: 10000
    Level 67: 11000
    Level 68: 12000
    Level 69: 13000
    Level 70: 14000
    Level 71: 15000
    Level 72: 16000
    Level 73: 17000
    Level 74: 18000
    Level 75: 19000
    Level 76: 20000
    Level 77: 21000
    Level 78: 22000
    Level 79: 23000
    Level 80: 24000
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Stupid stats, use "virtual" dice, derr. AC is actually part of D&D, and instead they get rid of it for "Defense, Deflect, Crit Resist, Awareness", what the heck is this stuff!? Clearly this is not D&D, it's some other game with a D&D facade in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting.

    It doesn't matter to me, For a few months now, I pretty much just log in to run some stronghold quests to donate stuff to my guild a few times a week, open lockboxes with vip keys, and sell stuff on the ah. I was excited about m16, but what we got is really not all that great. I get that features were getting out of hand and the devs needed to dumb it down for themselves cuz they couldn't balance the mess that it was.

    Serious, just model it after 5th ed D&D, the developers of that game have been working on balancing it for like three to four decades already. Just use the fact that a "round" is 6 seconds of time (phb). For spellcasters, let tab cycle trough our memorized spells. And yes, allow us to rest to refresh our hp and spells. They have the structure to do it, actually make a real time fast paced D&D game, but instead they gave use weird stats, narrow "paragon paths", and obnoxiously long cool downs on encounters that takes away from one of the biggest assets NWO had, "Fast Paced Combat". And get rid of the sparkles, make people actually read the npc dialog so they know what to do instead of follow the glitter and kill stuff in blue circle. That's all every quest is this game f'n is.

  • taikaias#9396 taikaias Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    [comment moved]
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