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Announcing Neverwinter: Undermountain

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  • ethanthefirstethanthefirst Member Posts: 2 Arc User

    > @ethanthefirst said:

    > i feel like u all dont even play yr own game, yr not balancing u are nullifing and nerfing every class in the game and destroying quite a few, recovery doesnt make it where encounter and dailys are too good or used too much, do u know why ppl build for recovery and how its used? cause the ppl who build for it have spent months grinding evrything out to perfection and it makes it where u can spam yr daily (cause u have all r14's) and help yr team the acdc and tacgf spam their moves but do u see them at the top of dps charts? no theyre helping their team, the dps which dont have as much recovery are at the top cause they built for the stats that they need, which isnt only recovery, as a tacgf u need recovery to spam cs and fray to help yr team, as a acdc u need it to share power and spam yr daily and reduce yr team mates cooldowns, yr hardly doing any damage with huge recovery, and yr taking away life steal cause the reason of being hp is either full or not, obviously, its always been this way cause of the way u made the game, if u have no defense but 2 mil hp and go into a hard dung yr still gonna get downed very very quick, cause u need defense, which the op and dc give, and all the enemies in the game do so much damage its either yr alive or dead, so the dc and op protect the team while the temp heals any damage that slips through the buffs, and having crit chance is stupid why? every end game play worked hard for their stuff or spent their hard earned money and now their half as effective, ppl min mmo's like seing perfection in their builds and stats, instead of destroying everyone's class why not just raise the armor pen cap more or make a new stat that the new area will drop gear that has, or anything else this isnt a balance, make the game fun, do u think if u played a game for years then all yr work is nullified is fun? its not, and yr changing all the feats cause u think thats theres not enough flexabillity and more reasons but even so it doesnt matter how u change them there will Awlays be 1 set of best feats for everyclass there cant be multiple best feats its impossible there will always be one best way cause thats just how it is, so however much u remove or add it there will still only be 1 or 2 set in stone builds that everyone uses cause if they dont they will only be hurting them selves and everyone they play with, and the feats the way there are now are fine, but either way dont remove a core stat that many many ppl have built their toon around and dont half a stat and force ppl to not have what they want and force away the crit that everyone built for, im getting off subject but just dont destroy everyones work please



    Not off subject at all. You said it perfectly. They're taking away from the hard work, time, and money people have already put into their game to get to the point they are. As I mentioned in a previous post, I will be walking away from this game. I do not see the purpose in sticking around, when they are taking what I worked for away from me. The developers don't care though bc they already have my money in their pockets.


    yea all these "problems" (theyre not) are things that we have our own solutions for, its common knowledge that u get 1 shot eaiser and either yr at full hp or dead so thats why u bring a acdc and op but if they nerf everything it wont be like that, and this update would be fine if they just added all the stuff with out changing and fixing stuff that doesnt need to be fixed, if it isnt broken then dont fix it, its like lvl 80? yay but wait oh no feats are different, just leave things as they are and add all this new stuff and it will be a good mod

  • tharealcuber#2975 tharealcuber Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Spend the last couple of months getting my toon back up to speed after a year or more sabatical. Couple more weeks and final boons from Chult are in and to wrap up the mod15 campaign boons to finally be done with the campaigns. I am at the point where I was looking into how to improve my build to be helpfull/ready for expert queue. Better to do nothing else but farming AD and wait till mod 16 drops...
  • nightelven#9514 nightelven Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    Big Changes wow.... In black n white....whats happening to OP.....pls
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    Someone noticed this on discord. Mod 6 was the utter trash that wrecked the game, mod 10 was the most boring mod possible, and what do ya get when ya add mod 6 and mod 10 together? mod 16.

    Man, I used to be hyped about level cap increase. While some of my buddies were like "screw that". Now it's the opposite.
    Well, RIP 4500+ hours in the game.
  • eliasar#2396 eliasar Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    As I said previously this is huge step for cryptic and game. Im used to keep my sceptical way how to see it but the fact is, lifesteal and currrent 4 support meta in dungeons had to be stopped.
    Its only up to developer team how they will manage this and all we can do is pray that devs wont do any mistakes while balancing classes this time, simply because this game cant afford another huge disaster mod after m15. On the other hand its a chance for some classes to raise and shine in what should they do (for example- GFs that basicaly got their main job stolen by OPs and were sentenced to be another buffer to the party).
    Of course as TR I have my concerns not regarding lifesteal, but regarding recovery, as we know TR class relies on self buffing from daily powers.

    However we dont even know any details, so I say we should wait for more information before starting with criticising things, we dont know anything about just yet, especialy if last two modules were so weak in terms of content because of preparations for module 16.
    Post edited by eliasar#2396 on
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    I was here before mod 6 and remember the changes (good and bad), as I read through the comments so far I am seeing the same complaints I see every time there are major changes done, some from new players that have barely played a few months. I am apprehensive about this HUGE change (again) but I also remember there were other circumstances that happened in mod 6 (like losing most of our dev team), promises were made by the old & new devs that still haven't happened in 4 years of waiting. I am hoping they won't repeat the same mistakes that have been made these last 4 years. I am also going to wait and see what these changes will do for all of us, good or bad. In a couple of weeks we will find out.

    They have been saying all along that they have to "balance classes" before they will introduce any new ones, apparently that doesn't seem to be going the way they intended (basing this on 4 long yrs of changes being continually made). All of us have taken the changes and adapted. I am not happy about them taking away some stats, but until I know how the new stats work or what will replace the ones we lose, I will hold off my opinion. There are some VERY good questions that I saw in the last couple of pages regarding what will happen to enchants, boons, SH boons, etc, I really hope they answer these and have something comparable to replace them.

    I have been playing RPGs for a very long time, both MMO & console, gear gets changed all the time as you level, so, for me, it's not a big deal, it's part of playing an RPG and should be expected. All I can say is don't buy anything from now until the new mod hits live.

    As for the class "name" changes, some points brought up earlier, I, too, have to agree with, like a GWF becoming a barbarian is quite a bit different than just a name change, they wear completely different gear, unless they won't change the gear, but that would mean they aren't true barbarians.

    One last thing, when it comes to buying stuff from the zen store or where ever, you had the use of those items (power points, mounts, companions, etc) when you bought them and you decided you needed them in order to play, they were not something that was required. some of the items were able to be obtained with regular playing, just not as quickly, why should a company compensate you for something that you chose to buy so you didn't have to wait/work for it? (that would be like going to a clothes store, buying something that is "in style" and a month later the style changes and you tell the store they didn't warn you that the fashion was going out and you want your money back, lol good luck with that). That being said, I do hope they have some type of non bound exchange for some items that will be made obsolete with this mod, like recovery & life steal enchants.

    Just my 2 cents, but I am looking forward to seeing what this whole change is about when it hits preview and take it in stride since I know, eventually, I will adapt and figure out the best way to continue playing as with every change we've had so far (I have enough respect tokens to play around with things until I am comfortable with them).
  • antok500#4237 antok500 Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    "that would be like going to a clothes store, buying something that is "in style" and a month later the style changes and you tell the store they didn't warn you that the fashion was going out and you want your money back, lol good luck with that). " You need to change where you buy your clothes. My shops don't come after me a couple of month later shredding what I have purchased and forcing me to buy new. Utility is not fashion.
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    @antok500#4237 "...You need to change where you buy your clothes. My shops don't come after me a couple of month later shredding what I have purchased and forcing me to buy new. Utility is not fashion."

    LOL you totally missed my point....you CHOOSE to buy these things to get them quicker, you are NOT required to buy them nor did the company "force" you to BUY them, they are available by playing the game, why should any company compensate you because you couldn't wait to get those things???

    I agree that if you have an item (like enchants) that they are completely changing the stats on, then yes, the company should compensate with an exchange or something like that. But when you purchase something, that YOU decided you needed or wanted, at that time, and then later "demand" they compensate you (for whatever reason) because you couldn't wait is ridiculous. The company gave you what you paid for and USED or planned on using, now if they do away with an item like the "power points box", then yes they should give you your money back or exchange it for something else.

    besides we don't even know what is happening with any of this......yet, why not wait and see what they will be doing instead of instantly "demanding" compensation?? If you think they'll respond to stuff like that, guess what they won't.
  • lordrhavinlordrhavin Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    tazz4now said:

    that would be like going to a clothes store, buying something that is "in style" and a month later the style changes and you tell the store they didn't warn you that the fashion was going out and you want your money back, lol good luck with that

    Let me correct your picture:

    So I walk into a store, buy an umbrella made of some synthetic material, then this stores management *somehow* changes the laws of physics and now the rain passes thru my umbrella. But hey, they offer me now a new one of some exotic material, that will shield the rain.

  • blopsdoctor#5898 blopsdoctor Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    My problem is Clerics started doing buff spec because the structure of the class just doesn't provide the sustainable healing that would be needed. Between long encounter timers, limited healing area, and the best healing spells only healing 10% of an end game characters hp, they went the buff route because overall it was just more effective. Now you are going to remove their recovery and feats to turn them into a straight heal class??? Most of the healing came from the feats to begin with (see earlier comment about healing not being structured for sustainability). This is going to be a disaster for the Cleric unless they restructure the encounters and give them something that can actually heal effectively. The crit cap is also just going to compound the issue as well because to be honest if a Cleric can't crit as much that means they are not healing as much.
  • vic282vic282 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    OOOO wipe -good!!!
    end of the game)))
  • baeyornbaeyorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User
    am reserving opinion as of right now.

    The scale of the pending mod 16 compared to the rest of Neverwinter, reminds me of Wrath expansion on Azeroth. Scale of Wrath Expansion compared to the rest of the world strikes me as same sort of scale, for Undermountain compared to the world we know in Neverwinter.


    Whilst I do have reservations on the whole character changes, I am not screaming WOE, WHOA!! and running amok. Am more of a wait and see kinda dude.


    An opinion, some of the changes will be refreshing and make a whole new game to learn. Others, may have me dropping the usual WTF,,,.


    All of the changes deserve a fair look, to paraphrase an Aussie term if I may.


    B)
  • miotest#5683 miotest Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    OK so:
    1) You did not provide a complete overview of the changes so we could see what it would impact - more information would be just as important if not more important than the few you have previously published. I suppose it's going to be even bigger, and that's why you're always giving a couple of good news and a couple of bad ones.

    2) Using the opposing rolls you will correct the DMG attack so it will be very difficult to decipher what OpposingRating vs. individual attack targets is to attack, and especially for the Crit, CA, ArP, Accuracy modifiers. How do you offer us the possibility to verify DMG creation in your system? will you publish the characteristics of your enemies? Will you offer us a plugin to ACT? If you do not provide us with a test tool and a complete cookbook, the biggest HAMSTER and NW fans will not give you feedback until six months later.

    3) Is there a lot of players who have a lot of time and sometimes money for equipment and enchantments - Are you going to compensate for their change in the form of eg exchange of enchantments?

    4) If you debug the performance of the new edits and you do not have a handbook on the player - do not expect players to invest in the new equipment to find that there is a bug somewhere and have to start building again - or as usual, there are other changes within a short time that will change essence.

    5) Do not forget that you were the ones who left the statistics so far - no one forced you and it was just your consideration where you let go of buffs, debuffs, power, recovery, critical, etc.

    6) The way you chose for a big change is the way a lot of people dearly pay or have already paid (eg time is money)

  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    Some players used their encounters and dailies too often.....

    Probably... BECAUSE THIER AT-WILLS SUCKED....?

    I mean really, wth do you expect? You want a CW to ray of frost everything one by one? Because CWs are well known for having at-wills on par with the GWF...

    cant agree more with this xd. most of out useful encounters have a long asz cd, and the atwills lol, are just meh, if it really comes down to using more atwills than encounters, everyone should just play a gwf as dps, which means alot of other class will be quitting. my hopes are they replace all recovery sources for ap gain and recharge speed and not for other useless stats like control bonus or resist.
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    gripnir78 said:


    So why I am so happy? Cos I was sick of a current state of the game. Sick and tired of lack of balance of dead pvp, of blitzing dungeons to no reward and so on. And yes it was all beyond repair as any new solution was in fact fixing (if at all) some issues and creating new ones.

    Um the "lack of balance" in PVP is due to two things: Whales that play PVP for the sole purpose of griefing and whiners that HAMSTER and moan their preferred class isn't Top Dog.
    Some of you say that we gona be nerfed? Really?
    No1 will take any of your enchantments, companions, mounts, insygnias, campaigns and many more. So all things that was giving you a real power of your toon will remain in place. Sure some will be changed – but notice please that all stats now can be needed so I doubt any enchantment will be useless.
    Um, if my build is built around using Black Ice for offense and defense, to maximize lifesteal/recovery, then YES, my enchantments are now "useless." In fact, by changing the stats they have, in a word, taken my enchantments, 'cos they no longer work as intended. Same thing goes for Dark Enchantments, Demonic or anything else that uses Recovery/Lifesteal.

    A good analogy for this would be the change from cassette tape to CD in the late 1980s. If my car had a tape deck, so I invested all of my money and effort into purchasing cassette tapes, only to have the manufacturer recall my car and then replace said tape deck with a CD player, I've lost my investment. They have taken something away from me.
    Gear – yeah gear will change as a level of your toon, but we keep change it with almost every mode. Sure some of us invested real money here – but you didnt have to – its aviable with playing game – you paid to get it faster – besides show me 1 mmo game where there is no need to change a gear? No to mention that standard gear will be laying on the ground while high end one would demand some skill and commitment – pretty much like now. Yeah yeah - its gone be heart breaking to see that new player have same chestpiece on level 77 that you have - but still he wont have enchants r14 slotted right?
    Are you for real? If it wasn't for people like me, that actually spend money on the game, people like YOU wouldn't even have a game to play. This game is "free 2 play", but only 'cos there are people that invest money in the game they enjoy. If NO ONE purchased Zen, PWE wouldn't have a reason to continue funding Neverwinter, since it's not making revenue and would quickly relinquish the D&D license. They're a business. They're not doing this "for fun." *WE* are.
    So in fact no matter if you are fresh level 70 or veteran here – its new opening before us as we all will have to challenge classes and mechnic change. And all veterans should not fear it – you still have a huge handicap for MOD16 like I described before – so it wont ruin your position in any way.

    Sure that would require a will to adopt to new environment, but lets be honest here any expected major change (power creep removal, or any nerf) would give similar impact.
    Give me a break! The Whisperknife Paragon path sucked. It always did. No one used it. Everyone went Master Infiltrator. Rather than create a new Paragon path for TRs, they kept it in and never touched it. My TR is a Scoundrel build. It's unique in that it does CC and DPS. You think my build is viable now that Cryptic is removing Feat Trees? No. Most TRs are DPS monsters using Executioner and a smaller group are DPS/Buff monsters using Sabotuer. We only get 2 paths with 1 feat each per path, that's exclusive and one shared. This reduces Cryptic's overhead and they're doing this for ALL classes. If your build didn't go along with one of the more popular builds, you're probably going to have to respec multiple times to get it how you want it.

    And that costs money in terms of Reroll Tokens.

    BTW I saw lot of topics that Cyptic is not capable of any major change cos of lack of resources/manpower/time for it. Heck I even stated such assumption once myself here.
    And then this.... suprise suprise – we were wrong - they are capable to do stuff and major changes as well. Sure they needed a time that is why both Barovia and AI mods were so small. But finally we got lot of new stuff. And do not know why but I got a feeling that this time its gona be a decent chunk of both content and long expected changes.
    Wow. You really are oblivious. I've worked in the industry. I worked at BioWare during the close of Neverwinter Nights. These changes are done to help a smaller development team roll out content faster and with fewer bugs. Why else would Professions get such a massive overhaul and a few months later entire game mechanics get completely reworked AFTER they made a BIG deal about the developer leaving, who was responsible for the class balance? All his work is being thrown out after what, 3 months?

    This game has matured for 6 years now, but one thing that's certain is that the development team has gotten smaller and smaller. Go look at Cryptic's job page. 11 new jobs for their Magic game. You don't hire NEW people to work exclusively on new IP as soon as they walk in the door. They're trained by veterans and brought up to speed on game mechanics and engines before they add contributions to milestone requirements.

    The people responsible for these mechanic changes are the core team that's now responsible for Neverwinter's development. They made changes that make their job easier. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the changes that have rolled out over the past couple of months are designed to make broad changes quickly and easily.

    If that wasn't the case, people like me wouldn't STILL be waiting for Cryptic to fix the Mithral Crucible issue being worth 1 point instead of 5,000, 'cos someone put data in the wrong cell.


  • nemesrichnemesrich Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    I am dissappointed to see that Paladin will be pure support class while all other classes will have a DPS variant.
  • devilxjkdevilxjk Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    nemesrich said:

    I am dissappointed to see that Paladin will be pure support class while all other classes will have a DPS variant.

    cause paladin already have 2 way to play
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    nemesrich said:

    I am dissappointed to see that Paladin will be pure support class while all other classes will have a DPS variant.

    Cos Paladin at this moment is 1mans army capable of doing any needed/demanded role in game while some other classes can hardly do one. Lets not forget how little effort/AD is needed for Paladin to be able to easly get into end game in compare to any other classes. So in short - It is long expected and well deserved change.
    I only hope there would be no work around this.

    And off topic on topic. I wonder why they keep 3 classes (H,M & R) with just one role. I assume those gona be single target/multitarget builds but again I hope for pure dps and mix of dps/support/CC builds there.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    I am wondering what happens to the LS boon in the SH. We spent lots of time and energy leveling that structure to rank 10 for LS. SO what replaces it? Or does it just go away after all that hard work. I agree we need a LOT more information and not just on class changes, etc. What happens to the R13 or 14 enchant someone has for recovery/lifesteal? Do they have to start over? Do they get a replacement? I see people already leaving over this and yes, maybe they should give it a chance, but.....can you blame them for not wanting to? I fear my active players in my guild will not want to continue and ooops, ya just killed your own game. Changes are not always bad, but people get frustrated when they have done the grind to get the BEST weapon and enchant it/restore it just to be told...oh well, that stuff is now outdated and here is NEW stuff to grind for. So now we have to change a lot more than just our gear...our whole class. I hope it isn't as bad as some fear.

    I agree with the stuff needing to be replaced and its impact to our character and the fear it is causing players. It is why I stated that once again cryptic failed at proper communication of information. The lack of additional details is causing this panic and instead of waiting it out, a few players I know on PS4 that have been here since day one quit. About half of my friends are on the fence about this mod and we all are waiting to see/hear more from PC players to see if we should go play another game.

    Since I'm all but done the latest campaign and Anthem is out on Friday I know where I will be over the next few months and if that game is really good than maybe NWO will become something I will come back to in the future after some time away.



  • romromeroromromero Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    We all need to wait... we need to see more information about the changes and try out the mod before coming up with our comments. Hopefully we get these updates fast so we can start commenting with more substance.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    I am curious with Paladin relegated to basically support how will she cope with the SP campaigns? Which is the bulk of the game.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • smegman#1430 smegman Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    5 "new" (probably recycled mostly) zones but how many dungeons are you going to remove like after mod 6 since you won't have time to tune them????
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    romromero said:

    We all need to wait... we need to see more information about the changes and try out the mod before coming up with our comments. Hopefully we get these updates fast so we can start commenting with more substance.

    Lol, yeah. We all saw how much good that did in mod 15. Ie. absolutely none. Get it through your head, whatever hits test server is going to be what we get. They will make absolutely no changes to it, because they never do. They've already formulated how they want this game to be played and they're going to do nothing to fix the bugs. It'll be sent to live at their convenience no matter how many bugs it has or how much it'll wreck all the single player content.
    I don't get the people who advocate waiting. When have that actually done us players anything good in this game? Never, that's when.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
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