Question to every one here, what are your thoughts and perhaps experience with using Thorn Strike/Thorn Ward over Plant Growth during boss fights? I know very well that a buffed and well-timed PG can hit quite hard and leave a nice bleed damage, but a well-placed Thorn Ward on a boss can easily reach and maintain 10 stacks of the debuff for (if still true) a +20% dmg resistance debuff at 10 stacks. Not to mention that Thorn Strike hits harder when striking only 1 enemy (the boss) and as the targets health drops. I have already seen 1mil. + Thorn Strikes at 15k IL when buffed.
Of course, I might be missing something behind the usual hidden code of NW, such as perhaps damage resistance debuff having a cap/limit, say 85%/90% like I've heard it is with the dmg resistance buff or say -20% damage resistance not actualy equating to +20% damage for you and those who hit the target and so on.
Question to every one here, what are your thoughts and perhaps experience with using Thorn Strike/Thorn Ward over Plant Growth during boss fights? I know very well that a buffed and well-timed PG can hit quite hard and leave a nice bleed damage, but a well-placed Thorn Ward on a boss can easily reach and maintain 10 stacks of the debuff for (if still true) a +20% dmg resistance debuff at 10 stacks. Not to mention that Thorn Strike hits harder when striking only 1 enemy (the boss) and as the targets health drops. I have already seen 1mil. + Thorn Strikes at 15k IL when buffed.
Of course, I might be missing something behind the usual hidden code of NW, such as perhaps damage resistance debuff having a cap/limit, say 85%/90% like I've heard it is with the dmg resistance buff or say -20% damage resistance not actualy equating to +20% damage for you and those who hit the target and so on.
thanks
Replacing Plant Growth is out of the question because it's your strongest encounter by far and Thorn Strike will never get even close to it. You may however consider replacing Throw Caution by Thorn Strike but buffing Plant Growth and Gushing Wound with Throw Caution is more than likely to give better results.
Thorn Ward is a nice little debuff but Damage Resistance debuffs suffer from two negative aspects when compared to damage buffs :
1. DR debuffs all are additive. If two players each put a 20% DR debuff on a target, the damage done to the target is multiplied by 1.4. With two 20% damage buff, the final multiplier would be 1.2*1.2=1.44.
2. On top of that, DR Debuffs get dimishing returns. The more you apply, the less you actually get. I dont remember the specific numbers but once you reach 80% or so you start getting a lot less than you should.
So, yes -20% DR debuff results in less than +20% damage unless the target didn't have any other debuff, and usually a lot less when you're in a team.
ok ty yes that makes sense to keep using PG then. Would you happen to know for support/buffer HRs how much damage does the Commanding Shot give? My 2nd loadout is buffer and I'm always using LSS + Hawkeye with Primal Instincts, but I'm not certain which of the following two I should use on bosses;Thorn Ward or Commanding Shot. I don't know if CS counts as a debuff or if it counts as a buff for your group (multiplies) and also how much is the dmg increase in percentage? Sadly the tooltips in this game give very limited information.
Commanding shot puts a 15% DR debuff. That's not much but the biggest problem is the animation which is way too long. By the time you shoot a commanding shot, longstrider will be over already.
Agree with artifleur. The only time you'll use it over thorn ward over commanding shot is if you have a dps gf in party as the temp hp is a buff to said guardian fighter's damage.
mod 15 question. I've sold a lot of gear and am planning on playing hr for the next couple weeks so trying to rebuild with what I have which is mainly darks rads and azures and a vorpal. am I correct in thinking since I have an unpar vorp and am having a hard time hitting crit with the amount of power I want that I am best off unslotting skirmishers gambit, to balance things a little better and to put the crit (that wasn't quite capped anyway) into power.. or is that silly talk
mod 15 question. I've sold a lot of gear and am planning on playing hr for the next couple weeks so trying to rebuild with what I have which is mainly darks rads and azures and a vorpal. am I correct in thinking since I have an unpar vorp and am having a hard time hitting crit with the amount of power I want that I am best off unslotting skirmishers gambit, to balance things a little better and to put the crit (that wasn't quite capped anyway) into power.. or is that silly talk
Do you mean in mod 15 or 16?
In mod 15 power wasn't important, so slot your azures in offense slots, raise crit chance all you can and keep gambit.
mod 15 question. I've sold a lot of gear and am planning on playing hr for the next couple weeks so trying to rebuild with what I have which is mainly darks rads and azures and a vorpal. am I correct in thinking since I have an unpar vorp and am having a hard time hitting crit with the amount of power I want that I am best off unslotting skirmishers gambit, to balance things a little better and to put the crit (that wasn't quite capped anyway) into power.. or is that silly talk
Do you mean in mod 15 or 16?
In mod 15 power wasn't important, so slot your azures in offense slots, raise crit chance all you can and keep gambit.
mod 15. I thought some level of base power was important. I always noticed the people that had like around 70 base power do a lot more damage than those who had lower. and I thought there was some soft diminishing returns on crit sev. like it keeps stacking but means less once you reach a certain point. and either skirmishers gambit or vorpal was enough to be meaningful but more than that wasn't that much more meaningful.
playing around with two builds on test dummies. it does seem like the numbers are prettier on the one with less power and more crit sev though
I switched back to the build with gambit. still have vorpal though. I feel like I'm doing less damage. need to look at the two builds and see if I messed this one up. lol. the other big change I noticed was I got the second shadow ring. replacing the ring that gives damage on daily. but that shouldn't have lessened damage. dunno. it doesn't matter four more days. i'm basically not playing much of actual game play anyway. more chatting and buying and selling and finishing up some secondary professions. I had a couple I didn't take to mastercraft at the end of mod 14. doing those now and getting some other toons to 2nd level mastercraft with just leg tools to fund my larger mastercraft toon with lower level supplies.
Comments
I know very well that a buffed and well-timed PG can hit quite hard and leave a nice bleed damage, but a well-placed Thorn Ward on a boss can easily reach and maintain 10 stacks of the debuff for (if still true) a +20% dmg resistance debuff at 10 stacks. Not to mention that Thorn Strike hits harder when striking only 1 enemy (the boss) and as the targets health drops. I have already seen 1mil. + Thorn Strikes at 15k IL when buffed.
Of course, I might be missing something behind the usual hidden code of NW, such as perhaps damage resistance debuff having a cap/limit, say 85%/90% like I've heard it is with the dmg resistance buff or say -20% damage resistance not actualy equating to +20% damage for you and those who hit the target and so on.
thanks
Thorn Ward is a nice little debuff but Damage Resistance debuffs suffer from two negative aspects when compared to damage buffs :
1. DR debuffs all are additive. If two players each put a 20% DR debuff on a target, the damage done to the target is multiplied by 1.4. With two 20% damage buff, the final multiplier would be 1.2*1.2=1.44.
2. On top of that, DR Debuffs get dimishing returns. The more you apply, the less you actually get. I dont remember the specific numbers but once you reach 80% or so you start getting a lot less than you should.
So, yes -20% DR debuff results in less than +20% damage unless the target didn't have any other debuff, and usually a lot less when you're in a team.
My 2nd loadout is buffer and I'm always using LSS + Hawkeye with Primal Instincts, but I'm not certain which of the following two I should use on bosses;Thorn Ward or Commanding Shot. I don't know if CS counts as a debuff or if it counts as a buff for your group (multiplies) and also how much is the dmg increase in percentage? Sadly the tooltips in this game give very limited information.
In mod 15 power wasn't important, so slot your azures in offense slots, raise crit chance all you can and keep gambit.
playing around with two builds on test dummies. it does seem like the numbers are prettier on the one with less power and more crit sev though