Ya...friends im at a lost for words...i honestly want to cry...WHY? WHY?...after giving us a taste of RESPECTABILITY in the last mod with the +25% on Shadow of demise...we get sent to the minors on the very next patch...the nerf is INSANELY NOTICEABLE! Stealth meter is always empty so Shadow of demise is useless..."its done to make the stealth power feel more powerful" lol...gimme a break...i dont feel more powerful now...and my DPS clearly shows that...that shorter duelist flurry combo is also a real pain in the butt...i mean the whole synch of the class has been destroyed...
.....so let see....stealth meter who wont recharge......-30% damage on the smoke bomb.....-25% on shadow of demise bonus piercing damage....-40%!!!!! damage on duelist flurry bleed...i mean...@#$%!!!!!!
i dont know who hates the TRs like that...
...we were behind long enough....this nerf is not even close to reasonable....i woke up with 300 extra IL....yet my toon performs like i lost 1500 IL...absolute CASTRATION of the class....im upset, disappointed and frustrated...im swearing out loud... ...this pretty much procc Shadow of demise on my participation to this game!...
i never play PVP...so to mess up a class to fix this side note of the game freaking sucks.......so bottom line this expansion is altogether disappointing from a TRs point of view....
...the professions?...complicated mess...old system was simpler...therefore better....i played this game to meet DnD lore in 3d and interact with them in cool locales...not to be in a shop...having a job...did the dev forget this is supposed to be fun?
....the best thing you guys did was Chult...that was a masterpiece...cool gear with a FUN HUNT CONCEPT!...not this boring crafting shizzle!...Chult had cool new locale...not this shop...it feels like im working...not playing a game...
...WHAT WAS NEEDED WAS... ...to give a reason for level 70 to re-visit all these great maps that we go at when we level to 70 ...and then never after...waist of bandwith/space or whatever you call that...
...offer Master versions of the old Dungeons like CN...ELOL...Kessel...etc...they are now too easy cause of the powerful gear...they need to be made tougher...they are now 2 or 3 man run...if your not very strong!
...random emplacement and party of enemy in the dungeons...keep every run fresh...and with different potential enemies...party composition would need to take that in account...
...different games...meaning...i dont know...uhh...putting game wide bounties on such and such alliances...or groups or...you know...having political intrigues that split the p-layer base...rewards shifting depending which side your on...and would cause attack on sight situations...being hunted by peeps all over the maps...FUN things like that!!!...
...but sadly...this doesnt seem to be the chosen path of progression by the dev...too bad...this game has potential...just a little creative recycling of whats here already could turn that around in a second...soooo disappointing!
So ultimately this mod 15 feels like a lot of playtime: was created...but not much fun... ...literally...a job...and homeworks...to sort out through all the changes to the classes... ...all of that work to really not get much of a payoff!...extending the life of a piece of software artificially!...
...to be fair...a few cool adjustment...no more salvage...auto pick loot and a few others...fun presentation of the campaign... ...but just not enough good to offset the negatives....
...particularly from a TRs point of view! ...what have you done? ....@#&%!...
In fact this whole dragging in the mud of the TR class really makes a farce of the very opening cut scene of this game...the first ever cut scene shows a female TR being the hero of the battle at the gates...when in fact TR s are the worst dps....what a joke....i hate PVP...thats why you guys are underpowering our class constantly....im so pissed off...words cant explain! Grrrrrrr!....this is awful!
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited November 2018
pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
> @kalina311 said: > pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH
The only real multi proc issue was SOD and that was patched. No serious TR gives a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play. Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore? And 8 procs of feats? Care to elaborate on that?
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
> pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH
The only real multi proc issue was SOD and that was patched. No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play. Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore?
And 8 procs of feats? Care to elaborate on that?
here you go .... razors action too and infiltrator's action ..so nice to see how the Tr community is informed before complaining i will borrow a link from my buddies thread .. yes in some cases tr could get x 8 .. but usually x 4
and some of your passives are still bugged giving x 4 most of your pve passives are still bugged so consider yourselves lucky
also the devs have finnlay come around to coding some powers differently for pvp vs pve to address balance complaints as well ...that" your" pvp broke "my" pve and vice versa etc ..
i remember when they nerfed the pally bubble and all complained it was cause of pvp despite a direct quote from the dev saying other wise
You know ... you could have just banned all PVE TRs, you would have achieved the same result without going through the problem of pretending to balance the class. Congratulations!! Mission accomplished!! Personally I won't be running game content with my TR anymore. I can have a VASTLY easier life with my other alts (you can guess which classes are those), that require far less skill, gear and "Charisma" in order to join end game content runs.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
> pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH
The only real multi proc issue was SOD and that was patched. No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play. Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore?
And 8 procs of feats? Care to elaborate on that?
here you go .... razors action too and infiltrator's action ..so nice to see how the Tr community is informed before complaining i will borrow a link from my buddies thread .. yes in some cases tr could get x 8 .. but usually x 4
and some of your passives are still bugged giving x 4 most of your pve passives are still bugged so consider yourselves lucky
also the devs have finnlay come around to coding some powers differently for pvp vs pve to address balance complaints as well ...that" your" pvp broke "my" pve and vice versa etc ..
i remember when they nerfed the pally bubble and all complained it was cause of pvp despite a direct quote from the dev saying other wise
You do understand that no one in PvE uses Bloodbath, right? And for CB, LA, WW one daily = one class feature....
(obviously someone maybe using, like level 15 chars, or someone with 'ideas' about unique build.. but they are not the discussion)
> @kalina311 said: > > @kalina311 said: > > > pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH > > > > The only real multi proc issue was SOD and that was patched. No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play. Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore? > > And 8 procs of feats? Care to elaborate on that? > > here you go .... razors action too and infiltrator's action ..so nice to see how the Tr community is informed before complaining > i will borrow a link from my buddies thread .. yes in some cases tr could get x 8 .. but usually x 4 > > https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243541/10-18-18-patch-notes-invisible-infiltrator-bloodbath-bugfix > > and some of your passives are still bugged giving x 4 most of your pve passives are still bugged so consider yourselves lucky > > also the devs have finnlay come around to coding some powers differently for pvp vs pve to address balance complaints as well ...that" your" pvp broke "my" pve and vice versa etc .. > > > i remember when they nerfed the pally bubble and all complained it was cause of pvp despite a direct quote from the dev saying other wise
Razors action? Another skill that is entirely PVP orientated. Was our run speed a bug? Our bleeds from duelist flurry? 10% buff for using impossible to catch? Was our stealth actually working a bug as well? We have broken interactions with skills from entirely different classes and they should be fixed. But what do any of the proposed fixed within this thread have to do with that? Your contribution to this thread, im sorry to say, sounds like trolling and very little else.
> pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH
The only real multi proc issue was SOD and that was patched. No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play. Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore?
And 8 procs of feats? Care to elaborate on that?
here you go .... razors action too and infiltrator's action ..so nice to see how the Tr community is informed before complaining i will borrow a link from my buddies thread .. yes in some cases tr could get x 8 .. but usually x 4
and some of your passives are still bugged giving x 4 most of your pve passives are still bugged so consider yourselves lucky
also the devs have finnlay come around to coding some powers differently for pvp vs pve to address balance complaints as well ...that" your" pvp broke "my" pve and vice versa etc ..
i remember when they nerfed the pally bubble and all complained it was cause of pvp despite a direct quote from the dev saying other wise
You do understand that no one in PvE uses Bloodbath, right? And for CB, LA, WW one daily = one class feature....
(obviously someone maybe using, like level 15 chars, or someone with 'ideas' about unique build.. but they are not the discussion)
Exactly what I read out that post -> noone uses Bloodbath in PVE, so noone get´s hurt in PVE by fixing that power... except devs fail to fix a bug. But some pretend as if PVP was the mayor reason for the rework , wich is not. Reading so many upset posts pointing at PVP is irritating. Like: "No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play." ....and in the next sentence "Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore? " If Bloodbath get´s fixed, how could you argue that this fix is ment to kill a class in PVE, in case noone uses that power? Contradictious somehow and not objective.
Only posts I found so far are all centered arround everything but PVP @noworries#8859 said "A change of this size is always going to bring up a lot thoughts, many of them unhappy, about how the class they're used to is changing. And in this case, some of the changes probably were a bit too far. We do want to stick to having the power looping aspect of TR removed, but some other adjustments may not have been needed and some compensation changes may not have been enough. " Damage for TRs went down from where they were in M14. This is called out many times in this thread as a reason that different powers should get buffed up. However, generally it isn't also acknowledged that TRs had sky high damage in M14 and that isn't where any class should be at. .......... "100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage. Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations. Balance doesn't just mean reducing/increasing the stats on a power. Sometimes synergies need to be changed or removed all together, and other times functionality needs to be significantly changed to open up other options in a class. We need to be able to make those kinds of changes, when necessary, or we can't get the game into a good place with classes/content. This week I did add a base power to the TR class that is giving all At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies a 5% damage multiplier boost. Overall a lot of the feedback in the thread is that the 3 feat trees are actually close to one another now, but that damage may be on the low side. Because of this we went with a universal damage increase for M15 instead of boosting something that may have pulled the feat trees further apart again."
Many feedback threads started with tons of constructive feedback > hate and flame, turning into hate and flame > constructive, due to missing communication and feedback wich is the real problem and a huge fail on companies side imo.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
"Exactly what I read out that post -> noone uses Bloodbath in PVE, so noone get´s hurt in PVE by fixing that power... except devs fail to fix a bug. But some pretend as if PVP was the mayor reason for the rework , wich is not. Reading so many upset posts pointing at PVP is irritating. Like: "No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play." ....and in the next sentence "Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore? " If Bloodbath get´s fixed, how could you argue that this fix is ment to kill a class in PVE, in case noone uses that power? Contradictious somehow and not objective."
+2000 "Reading so many upset posts pointing at PVP is irritating."
+3000
"100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be."
right from the devs mouth lol yet they still think tr were adjusted cause of pvp
@schietindebux@kalina311 It would help a lot if non-experienced PvE-ers, especially non-TR players would stop sticking their nose where it doesnt belong.
You do know that they messed up with Invisible Infiltrator because of PvP and because of Bloodbath and nerfed it for PvE?
You do know that almost every class was able to hit more than 100mil in one hit in PvE?
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
so now its my fault your Tr suggestions to the devs fell on deaf ears ? lol
Watch when most console gamers going to stop playing neverwinter tomorrow. Mod 15 hasn't been released yet but who cares about that anyway. No 1 will be waiting for it. Cryptic made it easier for the Neverwinter console gamers to choose a game. (lol)
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited November 2018
Well, then to be accurate, without looking up and just from memory:
1. SoD fiasco of back and forth into piercing and back was because of PvP 2. ITC change is because of PvP 3. Smoke bomb change on stealth from slow to useless is because of PvP 4. Stealth duration and on-damage changes 5. Invisible infiltrator
Older historical changes come to mind, like: 3. Stealth depletion on at-wills. 4. Multiple Lurkers assault nerfs + AP gain block 5. First strike
Those above are at least few that were changed because of PvP and heavily impact PvE.
Bloodbath fix, wasn't fixed but bugged because it doesn't proc class features at all now (though may be fixed already).
There were many changes over the time that their reason stem from PvP, some affect PvE, some much less so or not at all. I agree that personally I could care less about bloodbath as it stands currently, thought if it remains bugged it is one more daily that is useless to everyone. At the same time you have to agree that TR specifically was either changed, or more correctly wasn't changed where needed in PvE due to considerations on the impact on PvP. Where it started as a very strong single target class, and nerfed repeatedly into uselessness due to single target impact on PvP.
I think no one can argue that designing and making a class with stealth and single target in mind is severely limited by the implication on PvP. And I want to emphasize, specifically by mechanics and skills that can be made for PvE but are not changed / added/ buffed because of the impact it will create for PvP. Or in practice the whole concept is now a gimped hybrid of the original idea.
By all means this is not PvPers fault, there is only one point to blame and it's the devs, they need to split things that they can adjust correctly to separate effects. That repeated excuse of "We don't want to complicate the powers to the user" is nothing else but an excuse. People can read PvP = X effect, PvE = Y effect, and in any case, no one assumes things work like in the tooltips anyway.
Bottom line, to say that one doesn't affect the other (PvP/PvE) is not realistic, but on the other hand, you can fix bloodbath to your heart content, for all I care in PvE..
As already said at the beginning of this long discussion, as far as I am concerned, I find myself forced to leave the game and to devote my time elsewhere. TR unplayable to say the least SHAME, who made the changes has nothing to do with programming, I think his job is the wrecker of second hand cars. TR nerf AD nerf = quit, dungeons that in mod 14 were done in 14 minutes now in mod 15 are done in 24 minutes. It was nice as long as it lasted (little) bye and good game to those who remain.
I specifically hold pvp players to account who turn up to this thread with anti TR sentiment just to provoke and troll
And again to the people who argue that these changes are not about pvp please explain why run speed, stealth, all of our slow abilities and dailies were all nerfed? Time and again there are past instances of serious class changes that were dictated by PVP implications. Surely even you can see how unsustainable this is?
PVP and PVE can no longer be tied together like this
I thought no way the TR nerf will be as bad as the players were claiming on preview. These players are trying to squeeze every little 1/10 of a % of damage, I don't so... I'll probably barely notice the changes. Wow.... was I wrong.
Yesterday... while playing solo I started to get a sick feeling in my stomach, nothing seemed right. Fights lasting longer than normal, taking more damage..... I figured I'd give it a day. Came back today and ran an etos… a lower item level HR doubled my damage, but was able to do little bit more damage than a GWF and other players that had 1000+ item level less than I (I think it was about 1.4k less than I).
Forget Mod 14, this stuff didn't happen in Mod 12 and 13. When I'd get out dps by players of similar item level, it was by maybe 20% to 30%, not 100%.
I have to say... I'm a bit shocked by the nerf and response by Cryptic. I truly feel that Cryptic doesn't care as it appears we may be waiting until MOD 16/17 for adjustments. Seriously... 6 months to a year. Why would I want to continue paying and playing...
I really hope Cryptic looks deep into this nerf. Then communicate the direction of the TR as it appears TRs have no place in any group, other than charity case.
*I'll go back to laying on the kitchen floor in the fetal position with a bottle of scotch*
I'm really torn from taking a break from this game til TR gets to be a dps class again or just powering through as I enjoy the TR class in general. Being on PS4 I have a bit of time to think about. *grumbles*
Personally i rarely consult combat logs, more important to me is how gameplay in general feels. Experiences from Mod15 having both an average and a BiS TR:
- Average TR and solo content Being far from maxed out, with about 50% ArmPen/Crit and 35k combat power, strongly depending on the map you choose you will either have fun or want to secure your gaming gear since you will constantly feel like punching something out of frustration. Most of all having your stealth recharge time increased, facing the lack of self-buffing power and not being able to slow down mobs with smoke bomb make this experience much different than before and basically screwed up.
- BiS TR as main dps While running CR, or Tong as main dps where a BiS group usually buffs you to 200k power and beyond, the changes have little impact on gameplay, everything melts like in the past and like it should be for a well toned group. The subjection "no TR please" just reflects a lack of knowledge since compared to usual party buffs the new nerfs have no meaning as runs are fluid just like before.
Truth is, I will keep playing my main TR for now. I will however cease buying Zen until Cryptic shows that they can handle player feedback in a less ignorant way again.
Well, then to be accurate, without looking up and just from memory:
1. SoD fiasco of back and forth into piercing and back was because of PvP 2. ITC change is because of PvP 3. Smoke bomb change on stealth from slow to useless is because of PvP 4. Stealth duration and on-damage changes 5. Invisible infiltrator
Older historical changes come to mind, like: 3. Stealth depletion on at-wills. 4. Multiple Lurkers assault nerfs + AP gain block 5. First strike
Those above are at least few that were changed because of PvP and heavily impact PvE.
Bloodbath fix, wasn't fixed but bugged because it doesn't proc class features at all now (though may be fixed already).
There were many changes over the time that their reason stem from PvP, some affect PvE, some much less so or not at all. I agree that personally I could care less about bloodbath as it stands currently, thought if it remains bugged it is one more daily that is useless to everyone. At the same time you have to agree that TR specifically was either changed, or more correctly wasn't changed where needed in PvE due to considerations on the impact on PvP. Where it started as a very strong single target class, and nerfed repeatedly into uselessness due to single target impact on PvP.
I think no one can argue that designing and making a class with stealth and single target in mind is severely limited by the implication on PvP. And I want to emphasize, specifically by mechanics and skills that can be made for PvE but are not changed / added/ buffed because of the impact it will create for PvP. Or in practice the whole concept is now a gimped hybrid of the original idea.
By all means this is not PvPers fault, there is only one point to blame and it's the devs, they need to split things that they can adjust correctly to separate effects. That repeated excuse of "We don't want to complicate the powers to the user" is nothing else but an excuse. People can read PvP = X effect, PvE = Y effect, and in any case, no one assumes things work like in the tooltips anyway.
Bottom line, to say that one doesn't affect the other (PvP/PvE) is not realistic, but on the other hand, you can fix bloodbath to your heart content, for all I care in PvE..
I can agree about some points but some arguments sound onesided to me. Do you say all those changes were made due to PVP ?
1. SoD-changes mod 14 was a nerf for TR in PVE ?
2. ITC was reported in this thread and other to be part of powerloop and somehow double impacts followed by WoB-at least some said so. You still have 100% deflectchance (can´t say if 20.000% is more than 100% in this game?), 25% less DR but 25% plus movementspeed @noworries#8859 "We do want to stick to having the power looping aspect of TR removed, but some other adjustments may not have been needed and some compensation changes may not have been enough. "
3. Smoke Bomb no longer slows on top of being dazed and damage is lowered, a significant nerf -> devs answer, no clue if objective or not. @noworries#8859 "Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations."
4. Stealth Devs first post about it and it does not read at all as if PVP was the only reason to take changes ? @balanced#2849 "When tackling stealth, we realized that there were a couple of core problems with the mechanic. In most cases, you would enter a fight and use stealth once but then couldn’t really get away long enough to use it again without using powers like Shadowstrike or having access to the Shadow of Demise feat. To fix this, taking damage now reduces your stealth regeneration, instead of halting it, so that you have more consistent opportunities to use it. In PvP there were also some frustrations with Stealth. Since Trickster Rogues could re-enter stealth so often, they were basically untargetable for a majority of a fight. Without hindering the mechanic as a whole, we came up with a solution that will only affect the rogue while they are in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players, but still allow you to gain the mechanical advantages of stealth (such as Shadow of Demise). We also increased the time it takes to regain the stealth bar, this is mostly because we want Stealth Regeneration to feel more powerful and we wanted more room for it to grow without it becoming a problem. An example of this can be found in Master Infiltrator; Gloaming Cut now offers a Stealth Regeneration buff for a period of time."
5, Invisible Infiltrator This is mainly targetted towards PVP and a bug followed by Bloodbath but devs messed it up somehow, happens in this game ...pretty often
I don´t have an objective sight on classbalance in mod 15 at this point, but I expect that GWF same as GF (few) are the only "hard hitter" in this game atm. My first impressions running 3-dps-setup is that TR is by no means a useless dps... Devs obviously try to turn down overall damage. TR got nerfed and may get buffed in mod 16 again. I can´t tell how bad that class performs vs a Hunter, CW or SW atm., maybe someone that adepted to the changes can feedback GF will get reworked I read somewhere, let´s see what will be left of the class. GWF - no idea where that class is heading for.. but to be honest I expect a "nerf" down to the level of other striker-classes, anything else would be suprising.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Well, then to be accurate, without looking up and just from memory:
1. SoD fiasco of back and forth into piercing and back was because of PvP 2. ITC change is because of PvP 3. Smoke bomb change on stealth from slow to useless is because of PvP 4. Stealth duration and on-damage changes 5. Invisible infiltrator
Older historical changes come to mind, like: 3. Stealth depletion on at-wills. 4. Multiple Lurkers assault nerfs + AP gain block 5. First strike
Those above are at least few that were changed because of PvP and heavily impact PvE.
Bloodbath fix, wasn't fixed but bugged because it doesn't proc class features at all now (though may be fixed already).
There were many changes over the time that their reason stem from PvP, some affect PvE, some much less so or not at all. I agree that personally I could care less about bloodbath as it stands currently, thought if it remains bugged it is one more daily that is useless to everyone. At the same time you have to agree that TR specifically was either changed, or more correctly wasn't changed where needed in PvE due to considerations on the impact on PvP. Where it started as a very strong single target class, and nerfed repeatedly into uselessness due to single target impact on PvP.
I think no one can argue that designing and making a class with stealth and single target in mind is severely limited by the implication on PvP. And I want to emphasize, specifically by mechanics and skills that can be made for PvE but are not changed / added/ buffed because of the impact it will create for PvP. Or in practice the whole concept is now a gimped hybrid of the original idea.
By all means this is not PvPers fault, there is only one point to blame and it's the devs, they need to split things that they can adjust correctly to separate effects. That repeated excuse of "We don't want to complicate the powers to the user" is nothing else but an excuse. People can read PvP = X effect, PvE = Y effect, and in any case, no one assumes things work like in the tooltips anyway.
Bottom line, to say that one doesn't affect the other (PvP/PvE) is not realistic, but on the other hand, you can fix bloodbath to your heart content, for all I care in PvE..
I can agree about some points but some arguments sound onesided to me. Do you say all those changes were made due to PVP ?
1. SoD-changes mod 14 was a nerf for TR in PVE ?
2. ITC was reported in this thread and other to be part of powerloop and somehow double impacts followed by WoB-at least some said so. You still have 100% deflectchance (can´t say if 20.000% is more than 100% in this game?), 25% less DR but 25% plus movementspeed @noworries#8859 "We do want to stick to having the power looping aspect of TR removed, but some other adjustments may not have been needed and some compensation changes may not have been enough. "
3. Smoke Bomb no longer slows on top of being dazed and damage is lowered, a significant nerf -> devs answer, no clue if objective or not. @noworries#8859 "Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations."
4. Stealth Devs first post about it and it does not read at all as if PVP was the only reason to take changes ? @balanced#2849 "When tackling stealth, we realized that there were a couple of core problems with the mechanic. In most cases, you would enter a fight and use stealth once but then couldn’t really get away long enough to use it again without using powers like Shadowstrike or having access to the Shadow of Demise feat. To fix this, taking damage now reduces your stealth regeneration, instead of halting it, so that you have more consistent opportunities to use it. In PvP there were also some frustrations with Stealth. Since Trickster Rogues could re-enter stealth so often, they were basically untargetable for a majority of a fight. Without hindering the mechanic as a whole, we came up with a solution that will only affect the rogue while they are in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players, but still allow you to gain the mechanical advantages of stealth (such as Shadow of Demise). We also increased the time it takes to regain the stealth bar, this is mostly because we want Stealth Regeneration to feel more powerful and we wanted more room for it to grow without it becoming a problem. An example of this can be found in Master Infiltrator; Gloaming Cut now offers a Stealth Regeneration buff for a period of time."
5, Invisible Infiltrator This is mainly targetted towards PVP and a bug followed by Bloodbath but devs messed it up somehow, happens in this game ...pretty often
I don´t have an objective sight on classbalance in mod 15 at this point, but I expect that GWF same as GF (few) are the only "hard hitter" in this game atm. My first impressions running 3-dps-setup is that TR is by no means a useless dps... Devs obviously try to turn down overall damage. TR got nerfed and may get buffed in mod 16 again. I can´t tell how bad that class performs vs a Hunter, CW or SW atm., maybe someone that adepted to the changes can feedback GF will get reworked I read somewhere, let´s see what will be left of the class. GWF - no idea where that class is heading for
1. All the SoD changed in the last year and a half starting in mod12 or so, were due to PvP, and one change was due to PvE in october last year to allow multiple TRs to have separate SoD instances. I'm not sure why the initial debuff for piercing was added, it was not asked for in PvE (we are ArP capped) and I personally PMed at the time to warn about the implication on PvP. Supposedly it was to make SoD deal less damage on high resistance targets.. but..
2. Not the correct change, the animation and activation was changed, it is now a blocking encounter where before it was not. You could activate it during other things. + The DR reduction is mostly due to PvP complaints of TR 'tanking-es'.
3. The change I've mentioned was the slow on stealth, the quote you have listed doesn't touch that aspect, but I hope you can understand where it affects more....Even I know that stealth smoke is how you kill stuff in PvP. But if we consider all in all, that the change to smoke bomb displayed an immense lack of understanding of the devs how their own game works, or lack of the ability to monitor and collect data and analyze it. As it is well known and reported that the damage was not from smoke bomb itself but interaction with AoC. On the other hand, you can guess where there is usually no AoC near you on the capture point...
4. The entire sentence refer to PvP and PvP specifically. Get away? PvP. Shadowstrike? PvP Reliance SoD from stealth regen. PvP. Taking damage? PvP Gain visibility bla bla bla is PvP only anyway. Stealth bar length increase = Done for PvP and major nerf for PvE. Also it's a major nerf to Executioner path, and the Stealth regeneration was part of the capstone and now it is not and nothing else was added.
5. Yes, now a top PvE TR does 20% / ~40% damage less in a burst rotation from this alone.
Useless is a relative term when a DO can one phase, and with enough buffs a naked char can speed run. But when the devs know and admit that the buffs interaction skew everything and out of hand, they don't fix that, nooo, they make killing mechanics like push pulls, and nerf classes, but not fix the multiplicative external buffs...
This is a game, and I'm here to enjoy it. I do not find it enjoyable when I need to do my ultimate best and still be the "5fth wheel" where the party could have done it all without me in the same time. Then to me it is useless.
4
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
- BiS TR as main dps While running CR, or Tong as main dps where a BiS group usually buffs you to 200k power and beyond, the changes have little impact on gameplay, everything melts like in the past and like it should be for a well toned group. The subjection "no TR please" just reflects a lack of knowledge since compared to usual party buffs the new nerfs have no meaning as runs are fluid just like before.
Truth is, I will keep playing my main TR for now. I will however cease buying Zen until Cryptic shows that they can handle player feedback in a less ignorant way again.
You probably do not use artificers in your rotation. Before this mod, a BiS TR, will self buff power, but the damage from power is not the main 'thing', ignoring power loops and etc.. The point is to use Artificers to and multiple dailies to get class features. The class features or namely Invisible Infiltrator with the high recovery from both Artificers allowed to use Encounter Rotation only, which leads to AP gain, and repeat.
So the more power shared to you, like in BiS group, the more impact this change has, meaning, a huge nerf to the direct buff, because a buff from doubling your power is not 40% at those numbers, and a huge impact on the rotation itself, as the cooldowns can't be reset as fast, AP gain is lower, and Invisible Infiltrator dead. And we lost a daily, and the other has AP gain block.
So no, this is not 'little impact on gameplay', it is only a little impact if the main rotation was LA + DF (or similar) which was not the best before mod 15.
- BiS TR as main dps While running CR, or Tong as main dps where a BiS group usually buffs you to 200k power and beyond, the changes have little impact on gameplay, everything melts like in the past and like it should be for a well toned group. The subjection "no TR please" just reflects a lack of knowledge since compared to usual party buffs the new nerfs have no meaning as runs are fluid just like before.
Truth is, I will keep playing my main TR for now. I will however cease buying Zen until Cryptic shows that they can handle player feedback in a less ignorant way again.
You probably do not use artificers in your rotation. Before this mod, a BiS TR, will self buff power, but the damage from power is not the main 'thing', ignoring power loops and etc.. The point is to use Artificers to and multiple dailies to get class features. The class features or namely Invisible Infiltrator with the high recovery from both Artificers allowed to use Encounter Rotation only, which leads to AP gain, and repeat.
So the more power shared to you, like in BiS group, the more impact this change has, meaning, a huge nerf to the direct buff, because a buff from doubling your power is not 40% at those numbers, and a huge impact on the rotation itself, as the cooldowns can't be reset as fast, AP gain is lower, and Invisible Infiltrator dead. And we lost a daily, and the other has AP gain block.
So no, this is not 'little impact on gameplay', it is only a little impact if the main rotation was LA + DF (or similar) which was not the best before mod 15.
That is all true, but none you say was the actual point.
Point was to stop talking about how badly we have been nerfed, something everybody knows now, and start talking instead that we still are top choice for dps-ing endgame dungeons.
Exactly! lets pretend that everything is fine and lie to ourselves, thanks to the placibo effect we will start doing more damage, thank you sir, how couldn't we have thought of this before?!
> @tremeliques#2035 said: > Exactly! lets pretend that everything is fine and lie to ourselves, thanks to the placibo effect we will start doing more damage, thank you sir, how couldn't we have thought of this before?!
LOL xD xD thx for this... i can’t stop laughing xD
So I enjoy my time on PS4 until this „balance“ hit us on console... and then bye bye Neverwinter
But I’m interested what would happen if such a „balance“ would hit the beloved other classes like: -50% dps for gwf and hr? Would they thanking the devs for the adjust as they do right now if it would hit their own class like that?
And again I have to say they manipulate the executioner path that other path will be more attractive instead of bringing them to same level as executioner... why don’t do this aswell to the gwf destroyer path? I only see gwf destroyer no other... and with this you should nerf the determination thing to recharge slower and reduce the damage from that overhead strike aswell it’s too powerful, oh btw the weapon master strike shouldn’t lower def any more and the damage resistant is too high... all other dps classes aren’t that high...and the base damage of gwf needs to be reduced by a few % to „balance“ it with others? How would our gwfs feel if this critical changes hit their class?? I want to know that?
Before I get murdered I don’t wish that THIS „TR nerf desease“ happen to any other class more do I wish that we TR get a bit of our „class” back xD xD
The nerf is done, it is real, and most likely it won't change for a while. There are logs and whatnot showing that damage is 40% less here, 50% less there a.s.o. And then there is a mod15 party on youtube where Orcus gets almost onephased by a TR. Where is the truth and where is the lie in what i said earlier? You tell me.
Meanwhile, as long as you keep introducing yourself as "Hello, my name is TR and I suck" nobody will ever invite you to anything. I certainly wouldn't. Thing is, you just don't suck, how could you if the above is even remotely possible.
Maybe we have been doing something wrong all this time... Maybe these new kids on the block can teach us something... Lets observe into what state the class will sink(or maybe raise)...
Comments
.....so let see....stealth meter who wont recharge......-30% damage on the smoke bomb.....-25% on shadow of demise bonus piercing damage....-40%!!!!! damage on duelist flurry bleed...i mean...@#$%!!!!!!
i dont know who hates the TRs like that...
...we were behind long enough....this nerf is not even close to reasonable....i woke up with 300 extra IL....yet my toon performs like i lost 1500 IL...absolute CASTRATION of the class....im upset, disappointed and frustrated...im swearing out loud...
...this pretty much procc Shadow of demise on my participation to this game!...
i never play PVP...so to mess up a class to fix this side note of the game freaking sucks.......so bottom line this expansion is altogether disappointing from a TRs point of view....
...the professions?...complicated mess...old system was simpler...therefore better....i played this game to meet DnD lore in 3d and interact with them in cool locales...not to be in a shop...having a job...did the dev forget this is supposed to be fun?
....the best thing you guys did was Chult...that was a masterpiece...cool gear with a FUN HUNT CONCEPT!...not this boring crafting shizzle!...Chult had cool new locale...not this shop...it feels like im working...not playing a game...
...WHAT WAS NEEDED WAS...
...to give a reason for level 70 to re-visit all these great maps that we go at when we level to 70 ...and then never after...waist of bandwith/space or whatever you call that...
...offer Master versions of the old Dungeons like CN...ELOL...Kessel...etc...they are now too easy cause of the powerful gear...they need to be made tougher...they are now 2 or 3 man run...if your not very strong!
...random emplacement and party of enemy in the dungeons...keep every run fresh...and with different potential enemies...party composition would need to take that in account...
...different games...meaning...i dont know...uhh...putting game wide bounties on such and such alliances...or groups or...you know...having political intrigues that split the p-layer base...rewards shifting depending which side your on...and would cause attack on sight situations...being hunted by peeps all over the maps...FUN things like that!!!...
...but sadly...this doesnt seem to be the chosen path of progression by the dev...too bad...this game has potential...just a little creative recycling of whats here already could turn that around in a second...soooo disappointing!
So ultimately this mod 15 feels like a lot of playtime: was created...but not much fun...
...literally...a job...and homeworks...to sort out through all the changes to the classes...
...all of that work to really not get much of a payoff!...extending the life of a piece of software artificially!...
...to be fair...a few cool adjustment...no more salvage...auto pick loot and a few others...fun presentation of the campaign...
...but just not enough good to offset the negatives....
...particularly from a TRs point of view!
...what have you done?
....@#&%!...
......sooo disappointing!
Mannu Swifty
Grrrrrrr!....this is awful!
> pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH
The only real multi proc issue was SOD and that was patched. No serious TR gives a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play. Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore?
And 8 procs of feats? Care to elaborate on that?
i will borrow a link from my buddies thread .. yes in some cases tr could get x 8 .. but usually x 4
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243541/10-18-18-patch-notes-invisible-infiltrator-bloodbath-bugfix
and some of your passives are still bugged giving x 4 most of your pve passives are still bugged so consider yourselves lucky
also the devs have finnlay come around to coding some powers differently for pvp vs pve to address balance complaints as well ...that" your" pvp broke "my" pve and vice versa etc ..
i remember when they nerfed the pally bubble and all complained it was cause of pvp despite a direct quote from the dev saying other wise
(obviously someone maybe using, like level 15 chars, or someone with 'ideas' about unique build.. but they are not the discussion)
> > @kalina311 said:
>
> > pvp has nothing to do with your tr classe double and triple 4x - 8 x procing certain feats / effects ...that is what is known as a bug which tr have enjoyed for far too long ..thank you devs for fixing such bugs and multiprocs ... most notably INVISIBLE INFILTRATOR + BLOODBATH
>
>
>
> The only real multi proc issue was SOD and that was patched. No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play. Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore?
>
> And 8 procs of feats? Care to elaborate on that?
>
> here you go .... razors action too and infiltrator's action ..so nice to see how the Tr community is informed before complaining
> i will borrow a link from my buddies thread .. yes in some cases tr could get x 8 .. but usually x 4
>
> https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243541/10-18-18-patch-notes-invisible-infiltrator-bloodbath-bugfix
>
> and some of your passives are still bugged giving x 4 most of your pve passives are still bugged so consider yourselves lucky
>
> also the devs have finnlay come around to coding some powers differently for pvp vs pve to address balance complaints as well ...that" your" pvp broke "my" pve and vice versa etc ..
>
>
> i remember when they nerfed the pally bubble and all complained it was cause of pvp despite a direct quote from the dev saying other wise
Razors action? Another skill that is entirely PVP orientated. Was our run speed a bug? Our bleeds from duelist flurry? 10% buff for using impossible to catch? Was our stealth actually working a bug as well? We have broken interactions with skills from entirely different classes and they should be fixed. But what do any of the proposed fixed within this thread have to do with that? Your contribution to this thread, im sorry to say, sounds like trolling and very little else.
But some pretend as if PVP was the mayor reason for the rework , wich is not. Reading so many upset posts pointing at PVP is irritating.
Like: "No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play."
....and in the next sentence "Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore? "
If Bloodbath get´s fixed, how could you argue that this fix is ment to kill a class in PVE, in case noone uses that power?
Contradictious somehow and not objective.
Only posts I found so far are all centered arround everything but PVP
@noworries#8859 said
"A change of this size is always going to bring up a lot thoughts, many of them unhappy, about how the class they're used to is changing. And in this case, some of the changes probably were a bit too far.
We do want to stick to having the power looping aspect of TR removed, but some other adjustments may not have been needed and some compensation changes may not have been enough. "
Damage for TRs went down from where they were in M14. This is called out many times in this thread as a reason that different powers should get buffed up. However, generally it isn't also acknowledged that TRs had sky high damage in M14 and that isn't where any class should be at.
..........
"100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage.
Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations.
Balance doesn't just mean reducing/increasing the stats on a power. Sometimes synergies need to be changed or removed all together, and other times functionality needs to be significantly changed to open up other options in a class. We need to be able to make those kinds of changes, when necessary, or we can't get the game into a good place with classes/content.
This week I did add a base power to the TR class that is giving all At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies a 5% damage multiplier boost. Overall a lot of the feedback in the thread is that the 3 feat trees are actually close to one another now, but that damage may be on the low side. Because of this we went with a universal damage increase for M15 instead of boosting something that may have pulled the feat trees further apart again."
Many feedback threads started with tons of constructive feedback > hate and flame, turning into hate and flame > constructive, due to missing communication and feedback wich is the real problem and a huge fail on companies side imo.
+1000
"Exactly what I read out that post -> noone uses Bloodbath in PVE, so noone get´s hurt in PVE by fixing that power... except devs fail to fix a bug.
But some pretend as if PVP was the mayor reason for the rework , wich is not. Reading so many upset posts pointing at PVP is irritating.
Like: "No serious TR gives a HAMSTER about bloodbath since its only viability is in PVP where only the 1% play."
....and in the next sentence "Why nuke an entire class for the sake of a game mode that nobody plays anymore? "
If Bloodbath get´s fixed, how could you argue that this fix is ment to kill a class in PVE, in case noone uses that power?
Contradictious somehow and not objective."
+2000
"Reading so many upset posts pointing at PVP is irritating."
+3000
"100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be."
right from the devs mouth lol yet they still think tr were adjusted cause of pvp
It would help a lot if non-experienced PvE-ers, especially non-TR players would stop sticking their nose where it doesnt belong.
You do know that they messed up with Invisible Infiltrator because of PvP and because of Bloodbath and nerfed it for PvE?
You do know that almost every class was able to hit more than 100mil in one hit in PvE?
Mod 15 hasn't been released yet but who cares about that anyway. No 1 will be waiting for it.
Cryptic made it easier for the Neverwinter console gamers to choose a game. (lol)
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
1. SoD fiasco of back and forth into piercing and back was because of PvP
2. ITC change is because of PvP
3. Smoke bomb change on stealth from slow to useless is because of PvP
4. Stealth duration and on-damage changes
5. Invisible infiltrator
Older historical changes come to mind, like:
3. Stealth depletion on at-wills.
4. Multiple Lurkers assault nerfs + AP gain block
5. First strike
Those above are at least few that were changed because of PvP and heavily impact PvE.
Bloodbath fix, wasn't fixed but bugged because it doesn't proc class features at all now (though may be fixed already).
There were many changes over the time that their reason stem from PvP, some affect PvE, some much less so or not at all. I agree that personally I could care less about bloodbath as it stands currently, thought if it remains bugged it is one more daily that is useless to everyone.
At the same time you have to agree that TR specifically was either changed, or more correctly wasn't changed where needed in PvE due to considerations on the impact on PvP.
Where it started as a very strong single target class, and nerfed repeatedly into uselessness due to single target impact on PvP.
I think no one can argue that designing and making a class with stealth and single target in mind is severely limited by the implication on PvP. And I want to emphasize, specifically by mechanics and skills that can be made for PvE but are not changed / added/ buffed because of the impact it will create for PvP. Or in practice the whole concept is now a gimped hybrid of the original idea.
By all means this is not PvPers fault, there is only one point to blame and it's the devs, they need to split things that they can adjust correctly to separate effects. That repeated excuse of "We don't want to complicate the powers to the user" is nothing else but an excuse. People can read PvP = X effect, PvE = Y effect, and in any case, no one assumes things work like in the tooltips anyway.
Bottom line, to say that one doesn't affect the other (PvP/PvE) is not realistic, but on the other hand, you can fix bloodbath to your heart content, for all I care in PvE..
TR unplayable to say the least SHAME, who made the changes has nothing to do with programming, I think his job is the wrecker of second hand cars.
TR nerf AD nerf = quit, dungeons that in mod 14 were done in 14 minutes now in mod 15 are done in 24 minutes.
It was nice as long as it lasted (little) bye and good game to those who remain.
And again to the people who argue that these changes are not about pvp please explain why run speed, stealth, all of our slow abilities and dailies were all nerfed? Time and again there are past instances of serious class changes that were dictated by PVP implications. Surely even you can see how unsustainable this is?
PVP and PVE can no longer be tied together like this
I thought no way the TR nerf will be as bad as the players were claiming on preview. These players are trying to squeeze every little 1/10 of a % of damage, I don't so... I'll probably barely notice the changes. Wow.... was I wrong.
Yesterday... while playing solo I started to get a sick feeling in my stomach, nothing seemed right. Fights lasting longer than normal, taking more damage..... I figured I'd give it a day. Came back today and ran an etos… a lower item level HR doubled my damage, but was able to do little bit more damage than a GWF and other players that had 1000+ item level less than I (I think it was about 1.4k less than I).
Forget Mod 14, this stuff didn't happen in Mod 12 and 13. When I'd get out dps by players of similar item level, it was by maybe 20% to 30%, not 100%.
I have to say... I'm a bit shocked by the nerf and response by Cryptic. I truly feel that Cryptic doesn't care as it appears we may be waiting until MOD 16/17 for adjustments. Seriously... 6 months to a year. Why would I want to continue paying and playing...
I really hope Cryptic looks deep into this nerf. Then communicate the direction of the TR as it appears TRs have no place in any group, other than charity case.
*I'll go back to laying on the kitchen floor in the fetal position with a bottle of scotch*
- Average TR and solo content
Being far from maxed out, with about 50% ArmPen/Crit and 35k combat power, strongly depending on the map you choose you will either have fun or want to secure your gaming gear since you will constantly feel like punching something out of frustration. Most of all having your stealth recharge time increased, facing the lack of self-buffing power and not being able to slow down mobs with smoke bomb make this experience much different than before and basically screwed up.
- BiS TR as main dps
While running CR, or Tong as main dps where a BiS group usually buffs you to 200k power and beyond, the changes have little impact on gameplay, everything melts like in the past and like it should be for a well toned group. The subjection "no TR please" just reflects a lack of knowledge since compared to usual party buffs the new nerfs have no meaning as runs are fluid just like before.
Truth is, I will keep playing my main TR for now. I will however cease buying Zen until Cryptic shows that they can handle player feedback in a less ignorant way again.
Do you say all those changes were made due to PVP ?
1. SoD-changes mod 14 was a nerf for TR in PVE ?
2. ITC was reported in this thread and other to be part of powerloop and somehow double impacts followed by WoB-at least some said so.
You still have 100% deflectchance (can´t say if 20.000% is more than 100% in this game?), 25% less DR but 25% plus movementspeed
@noworries#8859 "We do want to stick to having the power looping aspect of TR removed, but some other adjustments may not have been needed and some compensation changes may not have been enough. "
3. Smoke Bomb no longer slows on top of being dazed and damage is lowered, a significant nerf
-> devs answer, no clue if objective or not.
@noworries#8859 "Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations."
4. Stealth
Devs first post about it and it does not read at all as if PVP was the only reason to take changes ?
@balanced#2849 "When tackling stealth, we realized that there were a couple of core problems with the mechanic. In most cases, you would enter a fight and use stealth once but then couldn’t really get away long enough to use it again without using powers like Shadowstrike or having access to the Shadow of Demise feat. To fix this, taking damage now reduces your stealth regeneration, instead of halting it, so that you have more consistent opportunities to use it.
In PvP there were also some frustrations with Stealth. Since Trickster Rogues could re-enter stealth so often, they were basically untargetable for a majority of a fight. Without hindering the mechanic as a whole, we came up with a solution that will only affect the rogue while they are in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players, but still allow you to gain the mechanical advantages of stealth (such as Shadow of Demise).
We also increased the time it takes to regain the stealth bar, this is mostly because we want Stealth Regeneration to feel more powerful and we wanted more room for it to grow without it becoming a problem. An example of this can be found in Master Infiltrator; Gloaming Cut now offers a Stealth Regeneration buff for a period of time."
5, Invisible Infiltrator
This is mainly targetted towards PVP and a bug followed by Bloodbath but devs messed it up somehow, happens in this game ...pretty often
I don´t have an objective sight on classbalance in mod 15 at this point, but I expect that GWF same as GF (few) are the only "hard hitter" in this game atm.
My first impressions running 3-dps-setup is that TR is by no means a useless dps...
Devs obviously try to turn down overall damage. TR got nerfed and may get buffed in mod 16 again. I can´t tell how bad that class performs vs a Hunter, CW or SW atm., maybe someone that adepted to the changes can feedback
GF will get reworked I read somewhere, let´s see what will be left of the class.
GWF - no idea where that class is heading for.. but to be honest I expect a "nerf" down to the level of other striker-classes, anything else would be suprising.
2. Not the correct change, the animation and activation was changed, it is now a blocking encounter where before it was not. You could activate it during other things. + The DR reduction is mostly due to PvP complaints of TR 'tanking-es'.
3. The change I've mentioned was the slow on stealth, the quote you have listed doesn't touch that aspect, but I hope you can understand where it affects more....Even I know that stealth smoke is how you kill stuff in PvP. But if we consider all in all, that the change to smoke bomb displayed an immense lack of understanding of the devs how their own game works, or lack of the ability to monitor and collect data and analyze it. As it is well known and reported that the damage was not from smoke bomb itself but interaction with AoC. On the other hand, you can guess where there is usually no AoC near you on the capture point...
4. The entire sentence refer to PvP and PvP specifically. Get away? PvP. Shadowstrike? PvP Reliance SoD from stealth regen. PvP. Taking damage? PvP
Gain visibility bla bla bla is PvP only anyway.
Stealth bar length increase = Done for PvP and major nerf for PvE.
Also it's a major nerf to Executioner path, and the Stealth regeneration was part of the capstone and now it is not and nothing else was added.
5. Yes, now a top PvE TR does 20% / ~40% damage less in a burst rotation from this alone.
Useless is a relative term when a DO can one phase, and with enough buffs a naked char can speed run.
But when the devs know and admit that the buffs interaction skew everything and out of hand, they don't fix that, nooo, they make killing mechanics like push pulls, and nerf classes, but not fix the multiplicative external buffs...
This is a game, and I'm here to enjoy it. I do not find it enjoyable when I need to do my ultimate best and still be the "5fth wheel" where the party could have done it all without me in the same time. Then to me it is useless.
So the more power shared to you, like in BiS group, the more impact this change has, meaning, a huge nerf to the direct buff, because a buff from doubling your power is not 40% at those numbers, and a huge impact on the rotation itself, as the cooldowns can't be reset as fast, AP gain is lower, and Invisible Infiltrator dead. And we lost a daily, and the other has AP gain block.
So no, this is not 'little impact on gameplay', it is only a little impact if the main rotation was LA + DF (or similar) which was not the best before mod 15.
Point was to stop talking about how badly we have been nerfed, something everybody knows now, and start talking instead that we still are top choice for dps-ing endgame dungeons.
> Exactly! lets pretend that everything is fine and lie to ourselves, thanks to the placibo effect we will start doing more damage, thank you sir, how couldn't we have thought of this before?!
LOL xD xD thx for this... i can’t stop laughing xD
So I enjoy my time on PS4 until this „balance“ hit us on console... and then bye bye Neverwinter
But I’m interested what would happen if such a „balance“ would hit the beloved other classes like: -50% dps for gwf and hr? Would they thanking the devs for the adjust as they do right now if it would hit their own class like that?
And again I have to say they manipulate the executioner path that other path will be more attractive instead of bringing them to same level as executioner... why don’t do this aswell to the gwf destroyer path? I only see gwf destroyer no other... and with this you should nerf the determination thing to recharge slower and reduce the damage from that overhead strike aswell it’s too powerful, oh btw the weapon master strike shouldn’t lower def any more and the damage resistant is too high... all other dps classes aren’t that high...and the base damage of gwf needs to be reduced by a few % to „balance“ it with others? How would our gwfs feel if this critical changes hit their class?? I want to know that?
Before I get murdered I don’t wish that THIS „TR nerf desease“ happen to any other class more do I wish that we TR get a bit of our „class” back xD xD
Meanwhile, as long as you keep introducing yourself as "Hello, my name is TR and I suck" nobody will ever invite you to anything. I certainly wouldn't. Thing is, you just don't suck, how could you if the above is even remotely possible.
Maybe these new kids on the block can teach us something...
Lets observe into what state the class will sink(or maybe raise)...