And that is the ever ongoing balancing act. Do we hold off longer to get bigger changes all at once, or do we do smaller incremental changes to dial everything in and make continual process? No matter how we split that up, someone is going to be unhappy, especially if the issue they find most important isn't addressed yet, or isn't addressed the way they want it to. And that brings me to feedback.
...
For this preview in particular, it just happened that the developer who did the majority of the class balance work moved onto other adventures. While this is normal in this industry, and most others, the timing did make it a bit trickier. (Thanks for all the work you did for Neverwinter, Balanced. I wish you all the luck in your certain to be successful career). He had actually left just before preview but we wanted him to be able to write up his thoughts and information on his changes which is why all the initial posts were written by him.
There's no problem at all with BIG changes, the thing is that if they are going to happen then one thing that is a must is that there should be a certain amount of people ready to receive and give a lot of feedback since its a big change, I've seen and given plenty of posts of feedback even explaining how the class works going as far as putting the maths of how power interact before and after the changes, just for it to be read once and not glared back , there is no reply asking stuff such as " i disagree with that because of X" or " i don't understand what u said here" stuff like that, of course it shouldn't be for every post but there are some really good ones on this thread that just seem to get glanced over.
Yes we know by now that balanced left, it happens, there's no problem with that, but then again that just makes needed someone that can collect feedback and bounce it back more important, and i might come a bit harsh here but if the person that should know more about the classes then anyone else ( the supposed class balancer) couldn't even understand how bad the balance was done then how is the community expected to think that someone else is able to do it properly, especially when there's almost no dialog, this is not on u no worries this is on who decided on not getting someone that could focus mainly on such a big thing as this.
I know its a super hard job ,there are almost no players if any at all that know every in and out of every class and every interaction in itself, that's why i'm actually triggered about this and i think most of the community is as well. I know, the community has done a bad job too, there's a lot of useless spam in here but there were flaw on your side as well.
So please go back on the feedback there good one that seems left in the dust, read it try to understand it, and tell us your thoughts, we are getting close to release and i don't feel like leaving my TR on the dust like you did with some good comments.
Invisible infiltrator does not proc AT ALL when you use bloodbath on live right now. Doesn't matter if you used 1 daily or a rapid succession of dailies. The quoted post below is my PC bug report on this bug:
The 10/18/18 patch notes tried to carry out the following bugfix: "Trickster Rogue: Invisible Infiltrator now only procs once off a single cast of Bloodbath."
I just tested the bugfix attempt on live. The fix appears to have gone wrong, now invisible infiltrator doesn't proc period when you use bloodbath. When you use bloodbath, your stealth bar no longer refills and the invisible infiltrator buff bar icon is completely absent.
This is only the case for bloodbath, the other dailies still trigger invisible infiltrator as normal.
Also, as I suspected would be the case, infiltrator's action wasn't included in this bugfix. Infiltrator's action still gives you 2 stacks for every 1 bloodbath you use. If any devs see this post, please fix this bug for both of these passives.
Also, take a look at the WK passives while you are at it, I don't think the WK passive bug works exactly the same as the MI passive bug since their passives don't have buff icons and razor action has different mechanics than the MI passives. A couple WKs did report a while back that razor action also has a buggy interaction with bloodbath that gives them more damage than intended, not sure if any of their other passives are affected.
I did see your report and we are looking into it. I asked the other poster for more specifics as theirs wasn't as clear cut as yours. If something never works, that should be easy to reproduce. If the same power sometimes procs a feat and sometimes doesn't, we likely will need some more info to narrow down what we're looking at.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Invisible Infiltrator can be stacked if you cast dailies quickly enough.
Invisible infiltrator does not proc AT ALL when you use bloodbath on live right now. Doesn't matter if you used 1 daily or a rapid succession of dailies. The quoted post below is my PC bug report on this bug:
The 10/18/18 patch notes tried to carry out the following bugfix: "Trickster Rogue: Invisible Infiltrator now only procs once off a single cast of Bloodbath."
I just tested the bugfix attempt on live. The fix appears to have gone wrong, now invisible infiltrator doesn't proc period when you use bloodbath. When you use bloodbath, your stealth bar no longer refills and the invisible infiltrator buff bar icon is completely absent.
This is only the case for bloodbath, the other dailies still trigger invisible infiltrator as normal.
Also, as I suspected would be the case, infiltrator's action wasn't included in this bugfix. Infiltrator's action still gives you 2 stacks for every 1 bloodbath you use. If any devs see this post, please fix this bug for both of these passives.
Also, take a look at the WK passives while you are at it, I don't think the WK passive bug works exactly the same as the MI passive bug since their passives don't have buff icons and razor action has different mechanics than the MI passives. A couple WKs did report a while back that razor action also has a buggy interaction with bloodbath that gives them more damage than intended, not sure if any of their other passives are affected.
I did see your report and we are looking into it. I asked the other poster for more specifics as theirs wasn't as clear cut as yours. If something never works, that should be easy to reproduce. If the same power sometimes procs a feat and sometimes doesn't, we likely will need some more info to narrow down what we're looking at.
It looks like 2 parts of @blur#5900 's post blended together in your head.
The first part was addressing bloodbath and invisible infultrator:
Also, from time to time it now occurs that Invisible infiltrator doesn't refill Stealth after using Lurkers Assault. This was tested today in Live runs and occurred several times.
Does that help clear things up?
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Invisible Infiltrator can be stacked if you cast dailies quickly enough.
Assuming you mean X1 stack for each daily use and this doesn't include bloodbath?
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Since the last patch on Live server the Bloodbath Daily power doesnt activate Invisible Infiltrator passive at all. Also, from time to time it now occurs that Invisible infiltrator doesnt refill Stealth after using Lurkers Assault. This was tested today in Live runs and occurred several times.
Were the dailies used quickly after one another? It can't apply more often than once every 5 seconds.
If that's not the case is there any thing that is consistent across the times it isn't applying? Some other power always used before hand or any character action that may be linked to the issue?
Yes, they were used quickly after one another, that was the way to play TR so far in fast groups and the II passive power used to stack and refill Stealth each time. To be more clear about the rotation: Stealthed ITC>smoke bomb>Courage Breaker>Soul Sight Crystal> stealthed Lashing blade(starts SoD)>ITC>Smoke Bomb>Sly Flourish>Lurker's Assault>stealthed Lashing blade> SoD hits...
That rotation is supposed to be done as fast as possible and in very good groups you dont need Sly flourish to fill 2nd Daily and use those hits after 2nd Lashing blade. The good thing about it is that we had 2 stacks of Invisible Infiltrator during that SoD window and we had 50% more critical severity on both Lashing Blades.
With latest change to II passive now we lose 20% damage bonus it gives and we lose 50% crit severity on 2nd Lashing blade. On top of all the changes that hurt us the most this feels like final nail in the coffin.
I understand that balancing is a long process but the changes to TR in m15 have pushed the class back a lot. I wouldnt mind that if all other classes were toned down at the same time but that didnt happen to them, quite the contrary and SW and CW deserved it since they were behind so far.
The good part of this balance is what has been done with the feat trees, all 3 are decent now and may have a use. The bad part which we didnt like is changing the core buffing mechanics and replacing them with rather weak versions. I understand that Power increasing abilities were a thorn in the eye which Devs wanted to remove since TR was able to have far higher Power than any other class, the problem is that the replacement for them is too weak for TR to stay competitive in PvE.
For example to have an idea how much TR lost in total: 25%+ from SoD(dot included and its better than what new Shadowborn offers), old WoB hitting one target giving us 16% dmg buff if we had 200k power from supports while now it gives half - 8%, old Courage breaker at same 200k power giving us 20% damage increase while new one gives around 8% as well, ITC used at 200k gives around 8% dmg, now it gives 10% increased CA damage which is probably around half as good, If II wont stack thats another 20% loss, we lost 2 secs duration to both WoB and CB, we lost quite some benefit from Artificers Persuasion....
In following rotation WoB>SSC>s.Lashing>itc>smoke bomb>sly>CB>s.Lashing>SoD hit, we lost quite a lot since almost every part of that rotation is half as good as it was and not counting huge part of damage lost from Smoke+AoC interaction since that was a bug.
Biggest loss will be felt on long fight like Arcolith since Power looping is no longer and replacement WoB and CB are just puny buffs, Lurkers is probably more hurtful than helpful on that boss fight.
Invisible infiltrator does not proc AT ALL when you use bloodbath on live right now. Doesn't matter if you used 1 daily or a rapid succession of dailies. The quoted post below is my PC bug report on this bug:
The 10/18/18 patch notes tried to carry out the following bugfix: "Trickster Rogue: Invisible Infiltrator now only procs once off a single cast of Bloodbath."
I just tested the bugfix attempt on live. The fix appears to have gone wrong, now invisible infiltrator doesn't proc period when you use bloodbath. When you use bloodbath, your stealth bar no longer refills and the invisible infiltrator buff bar icon is completely absent.
This is only the case for bloodbath, the other dailies still trigger invisible infiltrator as normal.
Also, as I suspected would be the case, infiltrator's action wasn't included in this bugfix. Infiltrator's action still gives you 2 stacks for every 1 bloodbath you use. If any devs see this post, please fix this bug for both of these passives.
Also, take a look at the WK passives while you are at it, I don't think the WK passive bug works exactly the same as the MI passive bug since their passives don't have buff icons and razor action has different mechanics than the MI passives. A couple WKs did report a while back that razor action also has a buggy interaction with bloodbath that gives them more damage than intended, not sure if any of their other passives are affected.
I did see your report and we are looking into it. I asked the other poster for more specifics as theirs wasn't as clear cut as yours. If something never works, that should be easy to reproduce. If the same power sometimes procs a feat and sometimes doesn't, we likely will need some more info to narrow down what we're looking at.
It looks like 2 parts of @blur#5900 's post blended together in your head.
The first part was addressing bloodbath and invisible infultrator:
Also, from time to time it now occurs that Invisible infiltrator doesn't refill Stealth after using Lurkers Assault. This was tested today in Live runs and occurred several times.
Does that help clear things up?
I should have deleted out more of the post I was replying to.
My question was to the statement of Lurker's Assault sometimes proccing Invisible Infiltrator and sometimes not.
For Hamster's sake No Worries, that's exactly the post you (or someone) needed to make three weeks ago. Something as simple as "I'm busy working on all of these big changes so I will only have time to post once a week or so, but I will be keeping up on feedback." would have prevented some of the rankor that had time to set in. I hope that you can learn from how horribly wrong this thread has gone and apply a better strategy for M16.
I do have to ask though, is this y'all's idea of small changes? Cause I remember those discussions and this wasn't what I envisioned. I kinda thought "small changes" would be more along the lines of small tweaks across multiple classes to bring them more in line with each other. Maybe rework a power/feat or two that were just useless. Change the damage of a power or two. This isn't necessarily negative feedback here, but more of a "so we know going forward" kinda question. I definitely feel like y'all and us are on two separate pages using the same language. Also, you, or someone, seriously needs to take a few minutes to address some nonclassspecific issues about the future direction of all these changes. Is this level of damage actually what you want for TR and where do you think that leaves it in comparison with other classes. Is this the direction that ALL classes will be getting moved toward. I don't necessarily mind doing less damage overall as long as everyone else is doing less too. But I do seriously mind if I'm going to be doing less compared to others, or if I'm getting nerfed to less six months earlier than others. I'm sure y'all got nda and no spoiler kinda stuff to tapdance around, but y'all are crashing your own plane by not explaining things. We need to know the WHYs behind all the whats, or in some cases the why nots. Lack of knowing creates more anger than the change itself.
Oh and @noworries#8859 , as I mentioned in my bug report, infiltrator's action is affected by the same X2 procs per bloodbath bug you guys just attempted to fix for invisible infiltrator. Here is how this bug works for infiltrator's action: @tremeliques#2035 said that the passive itself procs for both the first and the second hit of bloodbath, which also gives you the artifact offhand damage bonus X2.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
As for PVE TRs, they wouldn't be effected by fixing the X2 passive procs from bloodbath, bloodbath is only appealing in PVP. HOWEVER, if this bugfix has a side effect of making it so these passives can no longer stack period, that does effect PVE TR damage output as @blur#5900 explained. While our other dailies didn't give us X2 procs per daily, they did give us X1 proc per daily and that X1 proc does stack if you use another daily power fast enough.
What I'm not clear on is whether or not the fix implemented actually does stop invisible infiltrator from stacking period, @blur#5900 seems to be saying it doesn't stack anymore but @thefabricant posted the following in this thread tonight, which would suggest that you can still stack invisible infiltrator:
Invisible Infiltrator can be stacked if you cast dailies quickly enough.
Could you two clear this conflicting info up? I'm guessing I misunderstood something here?
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
> @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > > > Idk if they made tr weaker overall yet. > > > > > > Those debuffs to armor pen and damage might be a bit of support, but do a lot of people need that? I'm at 100% so will I have to lower it if a power lowers damage resistance? I like the idea of fluid attacks and the cooldown ap gain or deflect damage, but it seems like from these comments some people think our base damage is to low and are worried without power looping that it won't work. > > > > > > I hope the animation's \frames per attack is faster and more fluid, then maybe the numbers will make sense to them? (I'm looking at you with that hyper fast burst DMG. Uppercut gwf!) I hope duelist doesn't feel as clunky or any move really, I will be cautiously optimistic. > > > > > > Yea, TRs are hitting for much less. As much as 50% less, really. > > > > > > And GWFs' only burst is IBS, which isn't really that impressive, compared to the crowned king of burst damage which is Griffon's Wrath. > > > > I took percussion for two years, and let me just say that the uppercut sword slash (while maybe doesn't show well on damage board, did you mean?) Kills even tank mobs before I get past my duelist flurry cross slash. They then zip sprint to the next group and do the same there. A gwf once told me they shoot knives while doing that too? Idk about that, but from what I see I can say, "Your tempo is beyond me." Idk if you guys do your damage because of the uppercut or knive, all I know is that if I'm not there before the start of that animation, I shouldn't bother even considering it a target and just hope it's within smoke bomb range to maybe catch the last drip of damage before it dies. Then I have to wait for bleeds... My Sod when it hits imitates that kind of health cleave, but it seems that the uppercut is always up.. add a sprint and I'm better off fighting a different mob entirely. Thankfully, dazing strike seems to have similar cooldown and equal frames in animation.. The damage isn't burst single target but instead a spread shot cone. So if a gwf starts melting a group, my strike plus the boots that add damage to foes below certain health helps a lot in keeping up. Still, on bosses I just hope for second. They should hire fighting game devs to see if they can marry the numbers to the timing on moves. I just want all dps classes to have potential. My one and two and three vs one e and uh two e and uh > > Just feels bad man.( that's if I'm lucky and get a gwf 2000 IL below me.) > > Reaping strike? No one uses that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. > > In any case, if in M14 you're getting beaten in DPS by a 2k lower IL GWF, you got a problem beyond balance.
Read a certain pdf and respec everything to the letter minus the legendary mount. I'm not saying I don't usually smoke other classes or some gwfs. I'm saying they are faster literally with some animations in their move set and sometimes even at 12k they can melt mobs without us there, which seems odd to me. If they have those moves and Sprint up enough, then they can move room to room while we fall behind. Dazing strike for mobs is ok, more importantly its animation to damage is fast.
Also, a gwf that can endlessly cycle that uppercut, melt, and Sprint to next mob at my IL will still usually leave the rest of a similarly geared team in the dust too.
Just curious and skimmed the gwf notes, someone mentioned a "maneuverable glassy destroyer" 🌈 thank you. Not sure what the other trees/ paths would be, but atleast they're trying something. Again, I know tr needs balance after mod 14, glad gwf (if only one path) seems to be getting tweaked, Idk how else to explain the animation to damage frame speed other than press duelist flurry then immediately interupt press sly flourish ( for me L trigger then R) see how fast that is compared to letting both flurry crosscuts happen? That is uppercut gwf speed but way more damage., but anyways the last thing is like I said, will be cautiously optimistic about these reworks. Hope all classes can have a meaningful role in dungeons 👍
Read a certain pdf and respec everything to the letter minus the legendary mount. I'm not saying I don't usually smoke other classes or some gwfs. I'm saying they are faster literally with some animations in their move set and sometimes even at 12k they can melt mobs without us there, which seems odd to me. If they have those moves and Sprint up enough, then they can move room to room while we fall behind. Dazing strike for mobs is ok, more importantly its animation to damage is fast.
Using a good build =/= doing good DPS. You can use WickedDuck's GWF build (who is coincidentally the best GWF on server, or rather, was) and somehow, not everyone does the same damage.
you still Killing My TR I spend alot time on it so it would hurt alot not going to able to compete with other dps so please dont take all 50% we have people just gonna kick person from party if its tr or just inspect and see tr like " ohh no I dont need useless player and burden " you dont play as much as we so you have no idea how it will hurt . finally I can get in tong and be useful people take me in parties .
I just tested Stealth regeneration BASE ->12s Add 1: Feat :Shadow of demise 20% -> 10s ADD 2: Passive: Tenacious Concealment 20% -> 9s ADD 3: Feat: Sneaky stabber 10% -> 8.5s Error is around 0.5s +/-
But please consider that TR can fully fill the stealth bar with Daily with some synergy faster than 8s regeneration.
please compare Sneaky stabber feat to 5 others feats that improve basic skills.
Sneaky Stabber: Stealth Regeneration granted by Gloaming cut is increased by an additional 2/4/6/8/10% Distracting Knife: Disheartening Strike now reduces the Damage Resistance and Damage of targets hit by an additional 1/2/3/4/5%. Survivor (Reworked): While below 50% hit points, gain 5% Lifesteal Chance and Deflect Chance. Press the Advantage (Reworked): Now causes Impossible to Catch to increase your Combat Advantage damage by 2/4/6/8/10% for its duration.
Even if you put 1 point in Sneaky stabber the change is not existing, not visible to eye. That why i would recomend to increase damage 1%,2%,3%,4%,5% to the regenertion duration. The other feats improve 2 stats.
also good replacement for SelfpowerGain would be to:
If any class extent 100% crit chance then additional crit chance is transformed into crit severity. this rule would also apply to other classes as well. There exist feats Grinning Steel Attacks from behind your target have 2/4/6/8/10% increased Critical Chance. hit from behind is ability for few boss fights. it would probably transform into 2-3% increase damage from 10% (depends on combat advantage and crit severity)
if we have 105 crit chance then we get 5% into Crit severity. This is an engine change. Just an idea that popup in my head. This also mean that one of the stats treshold would dissapear.
Could 'Sneaky stabber' have additional 1%,2%3%4%5% increase damage when we trigger the stealth regeneration with Gloaming Cut? or go back how it was before?
Regeneration is not good. You active Daily faster than 12s/10s/9s/8s (combain powers for regeneration stealth meter)
Compare this feat to others 5 that changes depends on paragon path. They have at last double/duo stats.
1)Distracting Knife - Disheartening Strike now also increases your damage against your target by 1/2/3/4/5% and reduces the damage affected enemies deal to your allies by 1/2/3/4/5%.
2)Devastating Shroud - Shocking Execution now also increases your Critical Chance and Critical Severity by 2/4/6/8/10% for 6 seconds. I dont need to show others...
Regeneration is only when your stealth meter is not full.
Before the rework of Gloaming Cut the feat could restore 10% of stealth so you could enter stealth. HIT target and have stealth last 1s longer every hit of gloming cut. That what inwentor of this feat wanted it to be use for. That why gloming cut does not remove stealth lose wth each hit.
This was the idea and synergy of at-will and feat. (so to stay in stealh longer and regenerate cooldowns and not being killed by mobs)
Instead of nerfing it to 5% and not consider if it still usefull. Saboter path not only can get still meter full every 15s. TR also get daily faster than 8-10s which intrease damage and make stealth meter full.
Person who made this change was thinking "TR will be able to use Gloaming Cut in stealth and would not leave the stealh for the whole fight with the rework" FOR PVP - player dont stay in one place, they move around. In boss fight it is a huge wast of encounters, daily only to use Gloaming Cut for the whole time of boss fight.
I try to by nice, but to make the feat rework change not to create an overpowered synergy, only to make a garbage feat that nobody will use. Some changes does not make people happy. Gloaming Cut was useless, but together with this feat it give an uniqu ability and a new game style. Did anyone tested 'Improved Cunning Sneak' with new regeneration? maybe it should be reworked also to make it valid option not useless skill.
so please consider changing this feat further so it is and option and not just a filling space feat in TR feat tree.
With smoke bombs immediate dmg being toned down this should count as a control effect (always should have).
This is one of those aspects that there tends to be a lot of confusion about. The reason for that confusion is we have a lot of tooltips, and sometimes mechanics, that aren't explained well.
Smoke bomb does count as a control effect. If a player or critter is under the effects of Smoke Bomb, they are tagged as being controlled.
The disconnect is combat advantage. Being in a controlled state does NOT mean that the target is always receiving combat advantage damage. There are some powers, like dazing strike, where that was added in as a benefit, but it is not an aspect of being a control power.
Because it isn't called out on the tooltips of the powers where this does happen (Which is should be), it creates a situation where it seems like that is just what control does to a target, when in reality it is completely separate from control states.
@noworries#8859 tell me while u have no idea about pvping and actually skillfull game style , how u mind to fix things without testing them at max capacity?
invis doesnt work because they want it that way , because its making HAMSTER so ez, thats all, its not broken same as anything in this game they just change mechanic thats all
I remember My sw being nerfed to the ground 2 mods ago. No 1 wanted to have a sw in their group after the nerf. I stopped playing my sw for 2 mods and jumped on my tr. Now you going to nerf my tr to the ground because someone managed to do 1 billion damage in high end dungeon due to buffs/potions/group buffs/etc,etc ? Have you even thought about how many people are going to stop playing tr or game after spending so much time and money on their tr ?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
Good thing that Lurkers Assault AP gain block was removed, this way, at least we have 1 Daily for Mobs (Whirlwind) and 1 Daily for single target (Lurkers), It could have been extremely frustrating to be stuck without a viable daily for an entire mod with a class the relies extremely on dailies to barely function.
Bug: AP gain is disabled while Lurkers assault active.
There has certainly be plenty of posts about the lack of feedback across the class threads. Since the TR thread has the most activity, I wanted to post a response to that.
Changes over Time:
In the past we would hold off on big changes, like class balance, until we had time to fully invest in doing all the changes we wanted to a class in one go. Players pointed out how they didn't like that approach as it meant long periods of time went by without changes to a specific feature/part of the game.
Due to this, we discussed doing partial changes more frequently so that progress can be seen and we can step our way towards the end goals over multiple modules. The response to that was generally positive and it seemed players would prefer that method going forward.
M15 is one of the first big tests of that. We did a chunk of class balancing and are already doing more of it for M16 (and undoubtedly M17 although that is a bit too far away to have specific plans yet).
On one hand, there has been some positive feedback from this and understanding that it is a multi-part process. On the other hand, there is a lot of feedback of many other changes being required right now and waiting wouldn't be acceptable for those players.
And that is the ever ongoing balancing act. Do we hold off longer to get bigger changes all at once, or do we do smaller incremental changes to dial everything in and make continual process? No matter how we split that up, someone is going to be unhappy, especially if the issue they find most important isn't addressed yet, or isn't addressed the way they want it to. And that brings me to feedback.
Ok, thanks for at least answering. But the problem does not change, however it remains a madcap nerf without meaning. Such a big change, you do not even know what will happen. The only sensible thing is to change a little bit at a time. Then, put SOD back as in module 13 and you will see that other big changes will not be useful. Do not put online, the changes announced by your predecessor, because it will be the end of the TR, many have other characters to play, but many like me do not have and do not care to change toon. Do not think that the complaints / tips and more, you have read here are a few, because more than 2,000 subscribers on the TR's facebook group, they know very little about these changes, and when they see what happens to our platform, considers to a possible mass exodus . I hope you will do the right thing for everyone.
Thanks for your attention.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
> @theothergaliusz#7671 said: > Opinion on Sneaky stabber rework: > > Could 'Sneaky stabber' have additional 1%,2%3%4%5% increase damage when we trigger the stealth regeneration with Gloaming Cut? or go back how it was before? > > Regeneration is not good. You active Daily faster than 12s/10s/9s/8s (combain powers for regeneration stealth meter) > > Compare this feat to others 5 that changes depends on paragon path. They have at last double/duo stats. > > 1)Distracting Knife - Disheartening Strike now also increases your damage against your target by 1/2/3/4/5% and reduces the damage affected enemies deal to your allies by 1/2/3/4/5%. > > 2)Devastating Shroud - Shocking Execution now also increases your Critical Chance and Critical Severity by 2/4/6/8/10% for 6 seconds. > I dont need to show others... > > Regeneration is only when your stealth meter is not full. > > Before the rework of Gloaming Cut the feat could restore 10% of stealth so you could enter stealth. HIT target and have stealth last 1s longer every hit of gloming cut. That what inwentor of this feat wanted it to be use for. That why gloming cut does not remove stealth lose wth each hit. > > This was the idea and synergy of at-will and feat. (so to stay in stealh longer and regenerate cooldowns and not being killed by mobs) > > Instead of nerfing it to 5% and not consider if it still usefull. > Saboter path not only can get still meter full every 15s. > TR also get daily faster than 8-10s which intrease damage and make stealth meter full. > > Person who made this change was thinking "TR will be able to use Gloaming Cut in stealth and would not leave the stealh for the whole fight with the rework" > FOR PVP - player dont stay in one place, they move around. > In boss fight it is a huge wast of encounters, daily only to use Gloaming Cut for the whole time of boss fight. > > I try to by nice, but to make the feat rework change not to create an overpowered synergy, only to make a garbage feat that nobody will use. Some changes does not make people happy. > Gloaming Cut was useless, but together with this feat it give an uniqu ability and a new game style. > Did anyone tested 'Improved Cunning Sneak' with new regeneration? maybe it should be reworked also to make it valid option not useless skill. > > so please consider changing this feat further so it is and option and not just a filling space feat in TR feat tree.
Gloaming should directly add a chunk of stealth bar back as it does on live.
No change to that part is needed or wanted
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
It seems like when the dev team was testing the TR in the previous mods they were doing it without an OP in the group. Maybe using the exact same group makeup for consistency? Then all of a sudden the team started using an OP in their test groups and made drastic changes without knowing what was broken. Now the different feat paragons might be more equal, but the damage coming out of all of them is meh.
If we are putting it in different terms, we are losing 50-60% of our current productivity. You're taking away that much of our productivity that that the other support members (op, acdc, tacgf/mof and dodc/temp) will not not want to run with the TR as the main dps. Can you blame them? It's going to be more efficient and less time consuming to run a GWF, HR or dpsgf. That's the biggest problem with these nerf/balances. You have singled out a specific class and made it unproductive.
When the bonding runestones were nerfed everybody was impacted. Nobody liked it, but at least everyone was equally impacted. The so called balances made to the tr are not consistent across the different dps classes. If the plan is to bring all of the dps classes down the next couple of mods, say it. Don't just make the TR the test case.
Hmm, my main has always been TR, yet I had no change to get to To9G before mod 14, cause my dps was too low and now you are putting me back to status, where I cannot get to any end game dungeon without "carry group" ... not thrilling change for enjoyment. Perhaps I just sell all stuff and consentrate my DO, oh wait, DO will be nerfed also ... so I need to start do all boons for my OP to get any group for any dungeon, not gonna happen.
You really want to kill entire class ? If you do, then offer something back ? Free rebuild as Dragonborn ?
My TR is 16.3k, yes, she can solo Lostmouth in about 10 minutes, so what, every DPS at that IL can do it, but after this nerf, I doubt if I can even solo it ... She can make that near 2billion dmg on To9G, just like any GWF or GF, there is no difference atm. (if your only DPS of group)
So, basically, WHY is this massive nerfing needed ? Cause one or ten TR are too powerfull (beacause they have Bis gear and super optimized rotations)? and as responce, you cripple all (thousands) TR's ?
The problem here really is of the devs own making. My TR on live has around 29k power before companion proc, thats good for 110% ish damage bonus all things considered. There are a great many players who easily double that and then some with base stats + companions. A lot of players will easily have 200% extra damage before feats, boons, dailies, potions, food and other self buffs are even considered. Your game is just badly scaled.
Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill.
The problem here really is of the devs own making. My TR on live has around 29k power before companion proc, thats good for 110% ish damage bonus all things considered. There are a great many players who easily double that and then some with base stats + companions. A lot of players will easily have 200% extra damage before feats, boons, dailies, potions, food and other self buffs are even considered. Your game is just badly scaled.
Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill.
That literally means nothing. My OP has 46k base power, which is 115% damage bonus. And I sincerely doubt anyone has 80k base power without any self buffs. There's no bad scaling there, just bad information on your side.
> @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > The problem here really is of the devs own making. My TR on live has around 29k power before companion proc, thats good for 110% ish damage bonus all things considered. There are a great many players who easily double that and then some with base stats + companions. A lot of players will easily have 200% extra damage before feats, boons, dailies, potions, food and other self buffs are even considered. Your game is just badly scaled. > > > > Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill. > > That literally means nothing. My OP has 46k base power, which is 115% damage bonus. And I sincerely doubt anyone has 80k base power without any self buffs. There's no bad scaling there, just bad information on your side.
It's impossible for it to be bad information on my part when its literally how it translates for my TR, if your class gives different stats then it just means it differs, not that my information is incorrect.
In what world is 200-300% bonus damage NOT considered terrible scaling? Your OP is a support class, you are comparing apples and oranges.
> The problem here really is of the devs own making. My TR on live has around 29k power before companion proc, thats good for 110% ish damage bonus all things considered. There are a great many players who easily double that and then some with base stats + companions. A lot of players will easily have 200% extra damage before feats, boons, dailies, potions, food and other self buffs are even considered. Your game is just badly scaled.
>
>
>
> Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill.
>
> That literally means nothing. My OP has 46k base power, which is 115% damage bonus. And I sincerely doubt anyone has 80k base power without any self buffs. There's no bad scaling there, just bad information on your side.
It's impossible for it to be bad information on my part when its literally how it translates for my TR, if your class gives different stats then it just means it differs, not that my information is incorrect.
In what world is 200-300% bonus damage NOT considered terrible scaling? Your OP is a support class, you are comparing apples and oranges.
Do you know how the "bonus damage" thing works even?
It's based off power. 40k (or rather, a bit less) base power is 100% damage bonus. To get 200%, you'd need about 80k.
The highest idle power right now possible is about 70-75k with over 17k IL and a lotta damn pots.
> @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > > > The problem here really is of the devs own making. My TR on live has around 29k power before companion proc, thats good for 110% ish damage bonus all things considered. There are a great many players who easily double that and then some with base stats + companions. A lot of players will easily have 200% extra damage before feats, boons, dailies, potions, food and other self buffs are even considered. Your game is just badly scaled. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill. > > > > > > That literally means nothing. My OP has 46k base power, which is 115% damage bonus. And I sincerely doubt anyone has 80k base power without any self buffs. There's no bad scaling there, just bad information on your side. > > > > It's impossible for it to be bad information on my part when its literally how it translates for my TR, if your class gives different stats then it just means it differs, not that my information is incorrect. > > > > In what world is 200-300% bonus damage NOT considered terrible scaling? Your OP is a support class, you are comparing apples and oranges. > > Do you know how the "bonus damage" thing works even? > > It's based off power. 40k (or rather, a bit less) base power is 100% damage bonus. To get 200%, you'd need about 80k. > > The highest idle power right now possible is about 70-75k with over 17k IL and a lotta damn pots.
Incorrect. Bonus damage is not determined by just power rating. Race can affect it, strength and dexterity (among others depending on class) can affect it, power can affect it. I Power is only one component.
Comments
Yes we know by now that balanced left, it happens, there's no problem with that, but then again that just makes needed someone that can collect feedback and bounce it back more important, and i might come a bit harsh here but if the person that should know more about the classes then anyone else ( the supposed class balancer) couldn't even understand how bad the balance was done then how is the community expected to think that someone else is able to do it properly, especially when there's almost no dialog, this is not on u no worries this is on who decided on not getting someone that could focus mainly on such a big thing as this.
I know its a super hard job ,there are almost no players if any at all that know every in and out of every class and every interaction in itself, that's why i'm actually triggered about this and i think most of the community is as well.
I know, the community has done a bad job too, there's a lot of useless spam in here but there were flaw on your side as well.
So please go back on the feedback there good one that seems left in the dust, read it try to understand it, and tell us your thoughts, we are getting close to release and i don't feel like leaving my TR on the dust like you did with some good comments.
The first part was addressing bloodbath and invisible infultrator: The second part was addressing lurker's assault and invisible infiltrator: Does that help clear things up?
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Stealthed ITC>smoke bomb>Courage Breaker>Soul Sight Crystal> stealthed Lashing blade(starts SoD)>ITC>Smoke Bomb>Sly Flourish>Lurker's Assault>stealthed Lashing blade> SoD hits...
That rotation is supposed to be done as fast as possible and in very good groups you dont need Sly flourish to fill 2nd Daily and use those hits after 2nd Lashing blade. The good thing about it is that we had 2 stacks of Invisible Infiltrator during that SoD window and we had 50% more critical severity on both Lashing Blades.
With latest change to II passive now we lose 20% damage bonus it gives and we lose 50% crit severity on 2nd Lashing blade.
On top of all the changes that hurt us the most this feels like final nail in the coffin.
I understand that balancing is a long process but the changes to TR in m15 have pushed the class back a lot. I wouldnt mind that if all other classes were toned down at the same time but that didnt happen to them, quite the contrary and SW and CW deserved it since they were behind so far.
The good part of this balance is what has been done with the feat trees, all 3 are decent now and may have a use.
The bad part which we didnt like is changing the core buffing mechanics and replacing them with rather weak versions. I understand that Power increasing abilities were a thorn in the eye which Devs wanted to remove since TR was able to have far higher Power than any other class, the problem is that the replacement for them is too weak for TR to stay competitive in PvE.
For example to have an idea how much TR lost in total:
25%+ from SoD(dot included and its better than what new Shadowborn offers), old WoB hitting one target giving us 16% dmg buff if we had 200k power from supports while now it gives half - 8%, old Courage breaker at same 200k power giving us 20% damage increase while new one gives around 8% as well, ITC used at 200k gives around 8% dmg, now it gives 10% increased CA damage which is probably around half as good, If II wont stack thats another 20% loss, we lost 2 secs duration to both WoB and CB, we lost quite some benefit from Artificers Persuasion....
In following rotation WoB>SSC>s.Lashing>itc>smoke bomb>sly>CB>s.Lashing>SoD hit, we lost quite a lot since almost every part of that rotation is half as good as it was and not counting huge part of damage lost from Smoke+AoC interaction since that was a bug.
Biggest loss will be felt on long fight like Arcolith since Power looping is no longer and replacement WoB and CB are just puny buffs, Lurkers is probably more hurtful than helpful on that boss fight.
My question was to the statement of Lurker's Assault sometimes proccing Invisible Infiltrator and sometimes not.
I do have to ask though, is this y'all's idea of small changes? Cause I remember those discussions and this wasn't what I envisioned. I kinda thought "small changes" would be more along the lines of small tweaks across multiple classes to bring them more in line with each other. Maybe rework a power/feat or two that were just useless. Change the damage of a power or two. This isn't necessarily negative feedback here, but more of a "so we know going forward" kinda question. I definitely feel like y'all and us are on two separate pages using the same language. Also, you, or someone, seriously needs to take a few minutes to address some nonclassspecific issues about the future direction of all these changes. Is this level of damage actually what you want for TR and where do you think that leaves it in comparison with other classes. Is this the direction that ALL classes will be getting moved toward. I don't necessarily mind doing less damage overall as long as everyone else is doing less too. But I do seriously mind if I'm going to be doing less compared to others, or if I'm getting nerfed to less six months earlier than others. I'm sure y'all got nda and no spoiler kinda stuff to tapdance around, but y'all are crashing your own plane by not explaining things. We need to know the WHYs behind all the whats, or in some cases the why nots. Lack of knowing creates more anger than the change itself.
Here is how this bug works for infiltrator's action:
@tremeliques#2035 said that the passive itself procs for both the first and the second hit of bloodbath, which also gives you the artifact offhand damage bonus X2.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
HOWEVER, if this bugfix has a side effect of making it so these passives can no longer stack period, that does effect PVE TR damage output as @blur#5900 explained. While our other dailies didn't give us X2 procs per daily, they did give us X1 proc per daily and that X1 proc does stack if you use another daily power fast enough.
What I'm not clear on is whether or not the fix implemented actually does stop invisible infiltrator from stacking period, @blur#5900 seems to be saying it doesn't stack anymore but @thefabricant posted the following in this thread tonight, which would suggest that you can still stack invisible infiltrator: Could you two clear this conflicting info up? I'm guessing I misunderstood something here?
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
> > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
>
> > Idk if they made tr weaker overall yet.
>
> >
>
> > Those debuffs to armor pen and damage might be a bit of support, but do a lot of people need that? I'm at 100% so will I have to lower it if a power lowers damage resistance? I like the idea of fluid attacks and the cooldown ap gain or deflect damage, but it seems like from these comments some people think our base damage is to low and are worried without power looping that it won't work.
>
> >
>
> > I hope the animation's \frames per attack is faster and more fluid, then maybe the numbers will make sense to them? (I'm looking at you with that hyper fast burst DMG. Uppercut gwf!) I hope duelist doesn't feel as clunky or any move really, I will be cautiously optimistic.
>
> >
>
> > Yea, TRs are hitting for much less. As much as 50% less, really.
>
> >
>
> > And GWFs' only burst is IBS, which isn't really that impressive, compared to the crowned king of burst damage which is Griffon's Wrath.
>
>
>
> I took percussion for two years, and let me just say that the uppercut sword slash (while maybe doesn't show well on damage board, did you mean?) Kills even tank mobs before I get past my duelist flurry cross slash. They then zip sprint to the next group and do the same there. A gwf once told me they shoot knives while doing that too? Idk about that, but from what I see I can say, "Your tempo is beyond me." Idk if you guys do your damage because of the uppercut or knive, all I know is that if I'm not there before the start of that animation, I shouldn't bother even considering it a target and just hope it's within smoke bomb range to maybe catch the last drip of damage before it dies. Then I have to wait for bleeds... My Sod when it hits imitates that kind of health cleave, but it seems that the uppercut is always up.. add a sprint and I'm better off fighting a different mob entirely. Thankfully, dazing strike seems to have similar cooldown and equal frames in animation.. The damage isn't burst single target but instead a spread shot cone. So if a gwf starts melting a group, my strike plus the boots that add damage to foes below certain health helps a lot in keeping up. Still, on bosses I just hope for second. They should hire fighting game devs to see if they can marry the numbers to the timing on moves. I just want all dps classes to have potential. My one and two and three vs one e and uh two e and uh
>
> Just feels bad man.( that's if I'm lucky and get a gwf 2000 IL below me.)
>
> Reaping strike? No one uses that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
>
> In any case, if in M14 you're getting beaten in DPS by a 2k lower IL GWF, you got a problem beyond balance.
Read a certain pdf and respec everything to the letter minus the legendary mount. I'm not saying I don't usually smoke other classes or some gwfs. I'm saying they are faster literally with some animations in their move set and sometimes even at 12k they can melt mobs without us there, which seems odd to me. If they have those moves and Sprint up enough, then they can move room to room while we fall behind. Dazing strike for mobs is ok, more importantly its animation to damage is fast.
🌈 thank you. Not sure what the other trees/ paths would be, but atleast they're trying something. Again, I know tr needs balance after mod 14, glad gwf (if only one path) seems to be getting tweaked, Idk how else to explain the animation to damage frame speed other than press duelist flurry then immediately interupt press sly flourish ( for me L trigger then R) see how fast that is compared to letting both flurry crosscuts happen? That is uppercut gwf speed but way more damage., but anyways the last thing is like I said, will be cautiously optimistic about these reworks. Hope all classes can have a meaningful role in dungeons 👍
The variable is skill.
BASE ->12s
Add 1:
Feat :Shadow of demise 20% -> 10s
ADD 2:
Passive: Tenacious Concealment 20% -> 9s
ADD 3:
Feat: Sneaky stabber 10% -> 8.5s
Error is around 0.5s +/-
But please consider that TR can fully fill the stealth bar with Daily with some synergy faster than 8s regeneration.
please compare Sneaky stabber feat to 5 others feats that improve basic skills.
Sneaky Stabber: Stealth Regeneration granted by Gloaming cut is increased by an additional 2/4/6/8/10%
Distracting Knife: Disheartening Strike now reduces the Damage Resistance and Damage of targets hit by an additional 1/2/3/4/5%.
Survivor (Reworked): While below 50% hit points, gain 5% Lifesteal Chance and Deflect Chance.
Press the Advantage (Reworked): Now causes Impossible to Catch to increase your Combat Advantage damage by 2/4/6/8/10% for its duration.
Even if you put 1 point in Sneaky stabber the change is not existing, not visible to eye. That why i would recomend to increase damage 1%,2%,3%,4%,5% to the regenertion duration. The other feats improve 2 stats.
also good replacement for SelfpowerGain would be to:
If any class extent 100% crit chance then additional crit chance is transformed into crit severity.
this rule would also apply to other classes as well.
There exist feats Grinning Steel Attacks from behind your target have 2/4/6/8/10% increased Critical Chance.
hit from behind is ability for few boss fights. it would probably transform into 2-3% increase damage from 10% (depends on combat advantage and crit severity)
if we have 105 crit chance then we get 5% into Crit severity. This is an engine change. Just an idea that popup in my head.
This also mean that one of the stats treshold would dissapear.
Could 'Sneaky stabber' have additional 1%,2%3%4%5% increase damage when we trigger the stealth regeneration with Gloaming Cut? or go back how it was before?
Regeneration is not good. You active Daily faster than 12s/10s/9s/8s (combain powers for regeneration stealth meter)
Compare this feat to others 5 that changes depends on paragon path. They have at last double/duo stats.
1)Distracting Knife - Disheartening Strike now also increases your damage against your target by 1/2/3/4/5% and reduces the damage affected enemies deal to your allies by 1/2/3/4/5%.
2)Devastating Shroud - Shocking Execution now also increases your Critical Chance and Critical Severity by 2/4/6/8/10% for 6 seconds.
I dont need to show others...
Regeneration is only when your stealth meter is not full.
Before the rework of Gloaming Cut the feat could restore 10% of stealth so you could enter stealth. HIT target and have stealth last 1s longer every hit of gloming cut. That what inwentor of this feat wanted it to be use for. That why gloming cut does not remove stealth lose wth each hit.
This was the idea and synergy of at-will and feat. (so to stay in stealh longer and regenerate cooldowns and not being killed by mobs)
Instead of nerfing it to 5% and not consider if it still usefull.
Saboter path not only can get still meter full every 15s.
TR also get daily faster than 8-10s which intrease damage and make stealth meter full.
Person who made this change was thinking "TR will be able to use Gloaming Cut in stealth and would not leave the stealh for the whole fight with the rework"
FOR PVP - player dont stay in one place, they move around.
In boss fight it is a huge wast of encounters, daily only to use Gloaming Cut for the whole time of boss fight.
I try to by nice, but to make the feat rework change not to create an overpowered synergy, only to make a garbage feat that nobody will use. Some changes does not make people happy.
Gloaming Cut was useless, but together with this feat it give an uniqu ability and a new game style.
Did anyone tested 'Improved Cunning Sneak' with new regeneration? maybe it should be reworked also to make it valid option not useless skill.
so please consider changing this feat further so it is and option and not just a filling space feat in TR feat tree.
No 1 wanted to have a sw in their group after the nerf.
I stopped playing my sw for 2 mods and jumped on my tr.
Now you going to nerf my tr to the ground because someone managed to do 1 billion damage in high end dungeon due to buffs/potions/group buffs/etc,etc ?
Have you even thought about how many people are going to stop playing tr or game after spending so much time and money on their tr ?
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
Good thing that Lurkers Assault AP gain block was removed, this way, at least we have 1 Daily for Mobs (Whirlwind) and 1 Daily for single target (Lurkers), It could have been extremely frustrating to be stuck without a viable daily for an entire mod with a class the relies extremely on dailies to barely function.
Bug: AP gain is disabled while Lurkers assault active.
But the problem does not change, however it remains a madcap nerf without meaning.
Such a big change, you do not even know what will happen. The only sensible thing is to change a little bit at a time.
Then, put SOD back as in module 13 and you will see that other big changes will not be useful.
Do not put online, the changes announced by your predecessor, because it will be the end of the TR, many have other characters to play, but many like me do not have and do not care to change toon.
Do not think that the complaints / tips and more, you have read here are a few, because more than 2,000 subscribers on the TR's facebook group, they know very little about these changes, and when they see what happens to our platform, considers to a possible mass exodus .
I hope you will do the right thing for everyone.
Thanks for your attention.
> Opinion on Sneaky stabber rework:
>
> Could 'Sneaky stabber' have additional 1%,2%3%4%5% increase damage when we trigger the stealth regeneration with Gloaming Cut? or go back how it was before?
>
> Regeneration is not good. You active Daily faster than 12s/10s/9s/8s (combain powers for regeneration stealth meter)
>
> Compare this feat to others 5 that changes depends on paragon path. They have at last double/duo stats.
>
> 1)Distracting Knife - Disheartening Strike now also increases your damage against your target by 1/2/3/4/5% and reduces the damage affected enemies deal to your allies by 1/2/3/4/5%.
>
> 2)Devastating Shroud - Shocking Execution now also increases your Critical Chance and Critical Severity by 2/4/6/8/10% for 6 seconds.
> I dont need to show others...
>
> Regeneration is only when your stealth meter is not full.
>
> Before the rework of Gloaming Cut the feat could restore 10% of stealth so you could enter stealth. HIT target and have stealth last 1s longer every hit of gloming cut. That what inwentor of this feat wanted it to be use for. That why gloming cut does not remove stealth lose wth each hit.
>
> This was the idea and synergy of at-will and feat. (so to stay in stealh longer and regenerate cooldowns and not being killed by mobs)
>
> Instead of nerfing it to 5% and not consider if it still usefull.
> Saboter path not only can get still meter full every 15s.
> TR also get daily faster than 8-10s which intrease damage and make stealth meter full.
>
> Person who made this change was thinking "TR will be able to use Gloaming Cut in stealth and would not leave the stealh for the whole fight with the rework"
> FOR PVP - player dont stay in one place, they move around.
> In boss fight it is a huge wast of encounters, daily only to use Gloaming Cut for the whole time of boss fight.
>
> I try to by nice, but to make the feat rework change not to create an overpowered synergy, only to make a garbage feat that nobody will use. Some changes does not make people happy.
> Gloaming Cut was useless, but together with this feat it give an uniqu ability and a new game style.
> Did anyone tested 'Improved Cunning Sneak' with new regeneration? maybe it should be reworked also to make it valid option not useless skill.
>
> so please consider changing this feat further so it is and option and not just a filling space feat in TR feat tree.
Gloaming should directly add a chunk of stealth bar back as it does on live.
No change to that part is needed or wanted
If we are putting it in different terms, we are losing 50-60% of our current productivity. You're taking away that much of our productivity that that the other support members (op, acdc, tacgf/mof and dodc/temp) will not not want to run with the TR as the main dps. Can you blame them? It's going to be more efficient and less time consuming to run a GWF, HR or dpsgf. That's the biggest problem with these nerf/balances. You have singled out a specific class and made it unproductive.
When the bonding runestones were nerfed everybody was impacted. Nobody liked it, but at least everyone was equally impacted. The so called balances made to the tr are not consistent across the different dps classes. If the plan is to bring all of the dps classes down the next couple of mods, say it. Don't just make the TR the test case.
You really want to kill entire class ? If you do, then offer something back ? Free rebuild as Dragonborn ?
My TR is 16.3k, yes, she can solo Lostmouth in about 10 minutes, so what, every DPS at that IL can do it, but after this nerf, I doubt if I can even solo it ...
She can make that near 2billion dmg on To9G, just like any GWF or GF, there is no difference atm. (if your only DPS of group)
So, basically, WHY is this massive nerfing needed ? Cause one or ten TR are too powerfull (beacause they have Bis gear and super optimized rotations)? and as responce, you cripple all (thousands) TR's ?
Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill.
> The problem here really is of the devs own making. My TR on live has around 29k power before companion proc, thats good for 110% ish damage bonus all things considered. There are a great many players who easily double that and then some with base stats + companions. A lot of players will easily have 200% extra damage before feats, boons, dailies, potions, food and other self buffs are even considered. Your game is just badly scaled.
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> Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill.
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> That literally means nothing. My OP has 46k base power, which is 115% damage bonus. And I sincerely doubt anyone has 80k base power without any self buffs. There's no bad scaling there, just bad information on your side.
It's impossible for it to be bad information on my part when its literally how it translates for my TR, if your class gives different stats then it just means it differs, not that my information is incorrect.
In what world is 200-300% bonus damage NOT considered terrible scaling? Your OP is a support class, you are comparing apples and oranges.
It's based off power. 40k (or rather, a bit less) base power is 100% damage bonus. To get 200%, you'd need about 80k.
The highest idle power right now possible is about 70-75k with over 17k IL and a lotta damn pots.
> > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
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> > The problem here really is of the devs own making. My TR on live has around 29k power before companion proc, thats good for 110% ish damage bonus all things considered. There are a great many players who easily double that and then some with base stats + companions. A lot of players will easily have 200% extra damage before feats, boons, dailies, potions, food and other self buffs are even considered. Your game is just badly scaled.
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> > Fix the issue by reworking these bonuses to sane levels, then all of our self buffs become necessary rather than overkill.
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> > That literally means nothing. My OP has 46k base power, which is 115% damage bonus. And I sincerely doubt anyone has 80k base power without any self buffs. There's no bad scaling there, just bad information on your side.
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> It's impossible for it to be bad information on my part when its literally how it translates for my TR, if your class gives different stats then it just means it differs, not that my information is incorrect.
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> In what world is 200-300% bonus damage NOT considered terrible scaling? Your OP is a support class, you are comparing apples and oranges.
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> Do you know how the "bonus damage" thing works even?
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> It's based off power. 40k (or rather, a bit less) base power is 100% damage bonus. To get 200%, you'd need about 80k.
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> The highest idle power right now possible is about 70-75k with over 17k IL and a lotta damn pots.
Incorrect. Bonus damage is not determined by just power rating. Race can affect it, strength and dexterity (among others depending on class) can affect it, power can affect it. I
Power is only one component.