There should be some fixes to HR showing up on preview soon. On top of that we are looking into changing Aspect of the Serpent to be max stacks of 2 and you gain a stack even if you have stacks of the opposite type.
Example: HR uses 2 melee powers in a row getting two ranged stacks. HR switches to ranged and does one attack. The HR now has one stack of melee and one stack of ranged.
any word on trapper's roots being able to scale with buffs? or bladestorm able to proc out of gushing wound/plant growth?
I would have reworked HR around medium range. Only game I have played Archer a lot is Toukiden and due to enemy hitboxes you can't really aim properly at point blank. Medium range puts you at the edge of where buffs still reach (if someone bothers with buffs). Maybe have one point blank and one range encounter to accompany LSS. Or have feats that make either a stronger option. Ofc I dunno if Archers would be happy with being say 10' optimal for some feats. I guess that would kinda be like standing on the outer edge of cradle platform, so probably slightly too close for role playing.
Having a familiar that grabs all buffs might work for long range without changing the hug the boss meta.
That being said I think for Mod 15 priority shouldn't be (and apparently mostly isn't) on entire new mechanics when things other then Archer playstyle and QoL are in need of improvements which could benefit more then one specific playstyle.
Standing well away from the rest of your team is foolish, even in the real world where we aren't using buffers. It's unrealistic and dangerous.
I wonder during medieval time, do the archer charge together with the foot soldier into the enemy line or they just stand back and shower arrow? Or in modern time during hostage situation, does the police sniper camp on the roof top or they storm in with the rest of his team? I wonder which are more realistic.
Well, I am not sure realism is a design goal in a game with magic, gods, anachronisms, and other nonrealistic things.
Well, it isn't me that talks about realism in the 1st place. Even if to put archer into non realism like in game design, archer function are still pretty much the same. Showering arrow from behind. U goes from game like Dragon nest to Archeage, no archer fought at point blank. If they are ever caught at melee, they are probably dead if they fail to escape. Neverwinter are the only weird game that wants archer to cramp up with the melee in the frontline.
Archers fought with other archers, not by themselves. So they still weren't standing alone. Each archer was supporting his fellows. Usually there would be infantry mixed in or posted nearby to defend against the archer unit being charged, pikemen being especially effective in this role.
It still does not deny that archer fought away from the foot soldier and its way back behind them. Acher dont fight in the frontline with the foot soldier. Those pikeman u are saying are like the bugged out companion in this game, they are not in combat because they are not in range for it. I could also ask a GWF to stand beside me and call him my pikeman but game aren't play in this way. GWF are like the foot soldier that fight in the fronline and don't belong with the archer in the back. All in all, they don't stand together.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
Robin Hood's epic bow duel against Friar Tuck, who can ever forget that?
Standing well away from the rest of your team is foolish, even in the real world where we aren't using buffers. It's unrealistic and dangerous.
Tell that to snipers who generally only have a spotter with them, if that.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
It still does not deny that archer fought away from the foot soldier and its way back behind them. Acher dont fight in the frontline with the foot soldier. Those pikeman u are saying are like the bugged out companion in this game, they are not in combat because they are not in range for it. I could also ask a GWF to stand beside me and call him my pikeman but game aren't play in this way. GWF are like the foot soldier that fight in the fronline and don't belong with the archer in the back. All in all, they don't stand together.
Again, not alone. my point still stands.
1 Archer is not the same as a unit of archers. Nothing you say makes any difference to the point that they are not alone. They are standing near people who support them.
I don't know why you have such a fixation of standing away from the party, but even if the devs for some reason allowed you to benefit from party buffs all by your lonesome, the endgame group content is not suitable for you to do so. You will get grabbed by a phantom claw and crushed to death or by Strahd and drained dry. You will get hypothermia and die or the soak mechanic from Cradle. That's if the boss arena even allows you get far enough to do what you want. All because of your desire to avoid being supported by your team. And if one of those team mates runs to revive you or break the claw etc.. then the mechanic has taken two people out of the fight temporarily... all because you like to stand by yourself.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
It still does not deny that archer fought away from the foot soldier and its way back behind them. Acher dont fight in the frontline with the foot soldier. Those pikeman u are saying are like the bugged out companion in this game, they are not in combat because they are not in range for it. I could also ask a GWF to stand beside me and call him my pikeman but game aren't play in this way. GWF are like the foot soldier that fight in the fronline and don't belong with the archer in the back. All in all, they don't stand together.
Again, not alone. my point still stands.
1 Archer is not the same as a unit of archers. Nothing you say makes any difference to the point that they are not alone. They are standing near people who support them.
I don't know why you have such a fixation of standing away from the party, but even if the devs for some reason allowed you to benefit from party buffs all by your lonesome, the endgame group content is not suitable for you to do so. You will get grabbed by a phantom claw and crushed to death or by Strahd and drained dry. You will get hypothermia and die or the soak mechanic from Cradle. That's if the boss arena even allows you get far enough to do what you want. All because of your desire to avoid being supported by your team. And if one of those team mates runs to revive you or break the claw etc.. then the mechanic has taken two people out of the fight temporarily... all because you like to stand by yourself.
You have completely lost grip of reality and are arguing for absolutely nothing.
If anyone thinks an Archer should be in the middle of a melee battle between big burly characters swinging swords, axes, knives, maces, clubs, pitchforks, spoons or whatever... then there is no hope for you.
An Archer... pure archer... does not stand in the middle of melee combat. No matter if he is on his own, some other archers, with a single friend, an animal, a turnip... he is away from melee combat simple as that.
The Dev's have set up the Archer tree to do most of its damage out of group buff range with not enough to compensate them for it.
Simple solution is to have max damage at 25-30 so you dont actually have to stand a mile away. But everyone just argues about whether an Archer should fight at range... of course they sodding should thats what a proper Archer is and always has been throughout time.
All the Archer players are asking for here is to be part of the group at the distance THE GAME MAKERS SET FOR THE CLASS, dont blame the players for wanting to stand all the way out there... the game forces them to do so with so many Feats, Passives, Off-Hand Weapon and other mechanics.
You can share my Longstrider buff from half way across the map, why the hell cant I get a buff back from that range etc. Also if I chose Oak Skin or Stag Heart again other players get that buff from MILES away... its all one way and its no hardship to ask for the same back.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
The overhaul they plan for the Archery tree is removing the range buff. I'm sorry if that isn't what you want, but that is their apparent intention. It seems completely far fetched to me that they will reverse course on not only that but on dungeon design, removing a jey aspect of team mechanics, just to satisfy the desire that some people have to play standing away from the group.
It may be that they change their mind I have no insider information, but as it stands, their intent seems directly contrary to your desires.
With that, I am removing myself from this. I feel my point has been made, that simply granting some way for a lone character to get party buffs is not going to make the archery tree viable in this game. Should the devs change the way content is designed, then naturally this situation might change as well.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Hey folks! Please keep the tones civil and the conversation away from personal attacks/commentary. If threads become derailed to the point where we are having to edit/remove more than what's posted, we will close the feedback thread. This isn't something we want to do since feedback threads are valuable, but only when they remain constructive.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
The overhaul they plan for the Archery tree is removing the range buff. I'm sorry if that isn't what you want, but that is their apparent intention. It seems completely far fetched to me that they will reverse course on not only that but on dungeon design, removing a jey aspect of team mechanics, just to satisfy the desire that some people have to play standing away from the group.
It may be that they change their mind I have no insider information, but as it stands, their intent seems directly contrary to your desires.
With that, I am removing myself from this. I feel my point has been made, that simply granting some way for a lone character to get party buffs is not going to make the archery tree viable in this game. Should the devs change the way content is designed, then naturally this situation might change as well.
Then they may as well remove the Hunting Hawk and any other companions that buff range/damage at range.
The primary weapon of the HR is the bow. Not the blades. The HR is the only class that gets punished for wanting to use the primary weapon as intended.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
The overhaul they plan for the Archery tree is removing the range buff. I'm sorry if that isn't what you want, but that is their apparent intention. It seems completely far fetched to me that they will reverse course on not only that but on dungeon design, removing a jey aspect of team mechanics, just to satisfy the desire that some people have to play standing away from the group.
It may be that they change their mind I have no insider information, but as it stands, their intent seems directly contrary to your desires.
With that, I am removing myself from this. I feel my point has been made, that simply granting some way for a lone character to get party buffs is not going to make the archery tree viable in this game. Should the devs change the way content is designed, then naturally this situation might change as well.
Then they may as well remove the Hunting Hawk and any other companions that buff range/damage at range.
The primary weapon of the HR is the bow. Not the blades. The HR is the only class that gets punished for wanting to use the primary weapon as intended.
The main weapons for HR are blades and the bow, different feat trees have different strenghts around weapons, dont give devs any weird ideas that HR should be bow only class. Neverwinter and forgotten realms rangers are skilled in both the bow and blades. Melee and ranged.
> @deterrant#6687 said: > The overhaul they plan for the Archery tree is removing the range buff. I'm sorry if that isn't what you want, but that is their apparent intention. It seems completely far fetched to me that they will reverse course on not only that but on dungeon design, removing a jey aspect of team mechanics, just to satisfy the desire that some people have to play standing away from the group. > > > > It may be that they change their mind I have no insider information, but as it stands, their intent seems directly contrary to your desires. > > > > With that, I am removing myself from this. I feel my point has been made, that simply granting some way for a lone character to get party buffs is not going to make the archery tree viable in this game. Should the devs change the way content is designed, then naturally this situation might change as well. > > Then they may as well remove the Hunting Hawk and any other companions that buff range/damage at range. > > The primary weapon of the HR is the bow. Not the blades. The HR is the only class that gets punished for wanting to use the primary weapon as intended. > > The main weapons for HR are blades and the bow, different feat trees have different strenghts around weapons, dont give devs any weird ideas that HR should be bow only class. Neverwinter and forgotten realms rangers are skilled in both the bow and blades. Melee and ranged.
Well, if we want to go lore-wise, then fighter class is the one that has more expertise with weapons than any other class and if there's a master of ranged weapons - that's definitely a fighter class. Of course - D&Dwise.
Hey folks! Please keep the tones civil and the conversation away from personal attacks/commentary. If threads become derailed to the point where we are having to edit/remove more than what's posted, we will close the feedback thread. This isn't something we want to do since feedback threads are valuable, but only when they remain constructive.
Are these feedback threads really valuable though, I mean honestly b/c so far nearly 99% of every single one is overwhelmingly negative. Your entire player base is up in arms and against almost every change in this next mod and you guys honestly seem to just not even remotely care or be completely oblivious to it.
This particular thread for example, HR is 1 of the red headed step children in Neverwinter. We are almost always excluded from end-game content and ignored when responding to LFG shouts. Buff wise HR is at the complete bottom of builds, you are gutting Trapper in 15 making it as bad as Archery and you are nerfing Combat's Plant Growth.
I'm being 100% serious here, do any of you actually play the game, and if so are you all just playing DCs and GWFs? Hunter Ranger needs MEANINGFUL buffs, not lateral tweaks or nerfs, massive buffs, period.
I am not condening players being rude to one another but the venom in this and every other feedback thread for mod 15 should seriously tell you guys something, you are not un-touchable, as we speak Wildstar is going down in flames as have many other mmorpgs, if you continue to just flat out ignore your playerbase mod after mod, patch after patch you will be left with a revolving door of new players that spend 20 bucks and just move on.
Reposting the math involving the possible change to Aspect of the Serpent that was mentioned. This is only considering a swap of AotP for AotS, it doesn't involve the second passive. Note that in any boss fight where you can't get positional CA you would be running AotP/AotS instead of AotS/SV.
Some numbers against bosses: In a midgame scenario, PG+GW will be roughly 40% of your damage, in an endgame scenario that will go up to 60% or more. Given that the midgame scenario is mostly likely to favor not running AotS, we'll run the numbers for that. Let's assume that in a base scenario (no AotS, no AotP), we deal 100 damage to the boss. Simplfying, since not all of our damage is buffed that way, we can say that with AotP we would instead deal 100*(1.08) = 108 damage to the boss. But what if we drop that for AotS instead? This assumes that we use two stacks (~1.25% multiplier) on GW (25% of our damage) and 1 stack (1.12% multiplier) on PG (15% of our damage. We end up with something that looks like: 60 + 25*(1.25) +15*(1.12) = 10.05 damage.
That's already an improvement, but we forgot to account for how the change of feature affects Piercing Blade, which is around 20% of our total DPS. Roughly 40% of PB damage comes from GW and 20% from PG. This gives us something like: 48 + 25*(1.25) + 15*(1.12) + 20*(0.4)*(1.25) + 20*(0.2)*(1.12) = 110.53 damage. Clearly, AotS has the potential to offer a DPS increase over AotP. This DPS increase will grow larger if PG+GW is a larger portion of your total damage.
TL;DR - AotS has the potential to increase DPS by a small amount in the midgame, with the benefit increasing even more in endgame.
I think the proposed change to AotS is an excellent idea, pending final Dmg%/Stack values. It smooths out the Trapper rotation if you happen to fumble it, has interesting possibilities for those Trappers with rotations that maximize Deft Strike, and offers a moderate risk/moderate reward option for Combat. That is, used correctly, AotS is a DPS buff, used poorly it will under-perform compared to AoTP. I would like to see more of these kind of options available to all classes.
Charisma was my dump stat.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
The main weapons for HR are blades and the bow, different feat trees have different strenghts around weapons, dont give devs any weird ideas that HR should be bow only class. Neverwinter and forgotten realms rangers are skilled in both the bow and blades. Melee and ranged.
I will agree with your assessment as soon as you can slot a Weapon Enhancement into the Secondary Weapon (Blades).
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Hey folks! Please keep the tones civil and the conversation away from personal attacks/commentary. If threads become derailed to the point where we are having to edit/remove more than what's posted, we will close the feedback thread. This isn't something we want to do since feedback threads are valuable, but only when they remain constructive.
Then have the developer communicate with us. Instead of having another random player come trolling this thread by telling us what can or cant be done and what are intended or not. We don't want guess work from other player. We want the words from the developer. We cant solve an issue with only one party talking. Need both hand to clap. Instead of just leaving the thread open and allow trolls to mislead and confuse us from giving our honest feedback, its better let us know the thoughts from the developer.
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
All the threads, actually.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
The main weapons for HR are blades and the bow, different feat trees have different strenghts around weapons, dont give devs any weird ideas that HR should be bow only class. Neverwinter and forgotten realms rangers are skilled in both the bow and blades. Melee and ranged.
I will agree with your assessment as soon as you can slot a Weapon Enhancement into the Secondary Weapon (Blades).
literally there wouldn't be any difference, unless you can slot in both off hand and main hand at the same time.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
literally there wouldn't be any difference, unless you can slot in both off hand and main hand at the same time.
"Main hand" by definition is the primary.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
literally there wouldn't be any difference, unless you can slot in both off hand and main hand at the same time.
"Main hand" by definition is the primary.
still can't see your point, is not like a rogue hits harder with his right dagger than the left one, both of them are important and are part of the rogue itself, and only 1 can use a weapon enchantment.
literally there wouldn't be any difference, unless you can slot in both off hand and main hand at the same time.
"Main hand" by definition is the primary.
still can't see your point, is not like a rogue hits harder with his right dagger than the left one, both of them are important and are part of the rogue itself, and only 1 can use a weapon enchantment.
I think the point is lots of damage calculations for us HR only take into account 1 weapon at a time.
For instance Thorned Roots ONLY takes the Main Hand Weapon Damage into account.... even if you use Hindering Strike, a melee encounter power, the Thorned Roots from it only use the Bow.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
literally there wouldn't be any difference, unless you can slot in both off hand and main hand at the same time.
"Main hand" by definition is the primary.
still can't see your point, is not like a rogue hits harder with his right dagger than the left one, both of them are important and are part of the rogue itself, and only 1 can use a weapon enchantment.
I think the point is lots of damage calculations for us HR only take into account 1 weapon at a time.
For instance Thorned Roots ONLY takes the Main Hand Weapon Damage into account.... even if you use Hindering Strike, a melee encounter power, the Thorned Roots from it only use the Bow.
Except he is correct and it is largely irrelevant. Every Single HR power only uses 1 weapon for calculations, either the bow or the swords, none of them use both and melee powers can proc weapon enchantments even though the enchantment is slotted in the bow. There are some bugs like Thorn Ward calculating with the melee level damage instead of ranged weapon damage, but, "which weapon the enchantment is slotted into" is a completely irrelevant argument in terms of how the damage is calculated.
(Mod edited) Everybody is welcome to share their opinions.
still can't see your point, is not like a rogue hits harder with his right dagger than the left one, both of them are important and are part of the rogue itself, and only 1 can use a weapon enchantment.
Both of them are important. TR uses both of them ALL the time. The HR, on the other hand, uses the bow or the blades. Not both at the same time. And nerfing the Archer and the range is saying that the only thing the HR should use is the blades.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Problem is knowing how games math works does not assure someone is impartial and without bias or prejudice when it comes to balancing a certain aspect of the game. -snip- Its the intention that counts I mean people with knowledge does not mean he is just or fair. When it comes to balancing something, someone's attitude are equally important.
School 1: Meta school - Mathematically derived gameplay. - Aggregate all discernable exploits. - Pick and choose which is the most efficient classes. - Small band of gameplay is acceptable. - Focused on high-end gameplay only.
School 2: Natural Gameplay school - Play the game naturally with the class you actually like (no bandwagon, no fairweather, no flavor of the moment). - Balanced throughout solo, random and high-end or any type of gameplay, even PvP. - Rely on gameplay interactions and experience which is incalculable in any other software/hardware.
We don't care if someone is trying to preserve the Meta school which is broken, and a perverted representation of Neverwinter Online.
Noworries should take note. I can prove which school is the "intended" gameplay.
Neverwinter DOES NOT require a calculator or ACT to play, hence School 2, the Natural Gameplay school is the way it's supposed to be played. Let me know if *Calculator and ACT required appears in any official text.
Another proof. If I take away calculators/ACT after Mod16's supposed major revamp or any major revamp for that matter, School 2 would be sad, horrified, powerless, hunched and confused over the computer unsure which button is to push, and will have no inkling or motivation to roll Archery. Isn't that enough proof which is the real "intended" gameplay?
So, Meta School people invading our Archery turf, which some of us played since Archery launch, and have high heavy investment on, and attempting to dictate gameplay without actually experience or love for the subtree, is easily checked.
To paraphrase a fable/parable of King Solomon:
Two women in his court claim mothership of a child. King Solomon decides the kid should be cut in half, just to be fair. One woman said "No! rather than cut the child in half, give it to the other woman.".
King Solomon, in his wisdom, determines that the woman is Real Mother.
Well, guess which ones in this thread are the Real Archers? The ones who really like the subclass, play it even when it's underpowered and CERTAINLY don't want to unceremoniously get rid of it by keeping it alive.
All the Meta School wants is to preserve a broken system by asserting it's the "intended" way of gameplay. But rather than limit it to a narrow spectrum of class and builds and centered on high level content, it should be balanced and exploded to all builds.
All players have to go through 1-70 and 14 campaigns solo. This Meta School focus which in of itself is focused on broken, unintended interaction is should be the one that be reined in and neutralized for sake of class and gameplay balance.
still can't see your point, is not like a rogue hits harder with his right dagger than the left one, both of them are important and are part of the rogue itself, and only 1 can use a weapon enchantment.
Both of them are important. TR uses both of them ALL the time. The HR, on the other hand, uses the bow or the blades. Not both at the same time. And nerfing the Archer and the range is saying that the only thing the HR should use is the blades.
You said it yourself, uses bow or daggers, not bow then daggers, if daggers were the primary weapon and bow the secondary weapon, there literally wouldn't be any difference whatsoever, it just happens that any of them needs to be in the primary slot, this class is not called Archer, is called Hunter Ranger, there isn't realisticly any primary and secondary weapons.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
You said it yourself, uses bow or daggers, not bow then daggers, if daggers were the primary weapon and bow the secondary weapon, there literally wouldn't be any difference whatsoever, it just happens that any of them needs to be in the primary slot, this class is not called Archer, is called Hunter Ranger, there isn't realisticly any primary and secondary weapons.
Yes, and the top path will soon be "Not Archer".
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
literally there wouldn't be any difference, unless you can slot in both off hand and main hand at the same time.
"Main hand" by definition is the primary.
still can't see your point, is not like a rogue hits harder with his right dagger than the left one, both of them are important and are part of the rogue itself, and only 1 can use a weapon enchantment.
I think the point is lots of damage calculations for us HR only take into account 1 weapon at a time.
For instance Thorned Roots ONLY takes the Main Hand Weapon Damage into account.... even if you use Hindering Strike, a melee encounter power, the Thorned Roots from it only use the Bow.
Except he is correct and it is largely irrelevant. Every Single HR power only uses 1 weapon for calculations, either the bow or the swords, none of them use both and melee powers can proc weapon enchantments even though the enchantment is slotted in the bow. There are some bugs like Thorn Ward calculating with the melee level damage instead of ranged weapon damage, but, "which weapon the enchantment is slotted into" is a completely irrelevant argument in terms of how the damage is calculated.
-snip-
How many of your solutions proposed under this thread have been implemented so far? Cause what I see, only AotS was changed and guess what - it was people from this thread (not you) who suggested this.
Every time you use "math" argumented on this forums, a cute panda dies somewhere. Please, stop.
Are Thorned Roots even considered to not work as intended in the meaning of that they aren't scale with all buffs? I'm not asking for the fix, I just want to know whether such problem exist in your internal bug tracker.
literally there wouldn't be any difference, unless you can slot in both off hand and main hand at the same time.
"Main hand" by definition is the primary.
still can't see your point, is not like a rogue hits harder with his right dagger than the left one, both of them are important and are part of the rogue itself, and only 1 can use a weapon enchantment.
I think the point is lots of damage calculations for us HR only take into account 1 weapon at a time.
For instance Thorned Roots ONLY takes the Main Hand Weapon Damage into account.... even if you use Hindering Strike, a melee encounter power, the Thorned Roots from it only use the Bow.
Except he is correct and it is largely irrelevant. Every Single HR power only uses 1 weapon for calculations, either the bow or the swords, none of them use both and melee powers can proc weapon enchantments even though the enchantment is slotted in the bow. There are some bugs like Thorn Ward calculating with the melee level damage instead of ranged weapon damage, but, "which weapon the enchantment is slotted into" is a completely irrelevant argument in terms of how the damage is calculated.
-snip-
Why on Earth was this comment aimed at me?
2 people were talking to each other not quite understanding what each was saying, so I pointed out what one of them was trying to say. I have not said anything incorrect at all.
Post edited by frozenfirevr on
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Comments
Having a familiar that grabs all buffs might work for long range without changing the hug the boss meta.
That being said I think for Mod 15 priority shouldn't be (and apparently mostly isn't) on entire new mechanics when things other then Archer playstyle and QoL are in need of improvements which could benefit more then one specific playstyle. Stand behind tank?
It still does not deny that archer fought away from the foot soldier and its way back behind them. Acher dont fight in the frontline with the foot soldier. Those pikeman u are saying are like the bugged out companion in this game, they are not in combat because they are not in range for it. I could also ask a GWF to stand beside me and call him my pikeman but game aren't play in this way. GWF are like the foot soldier that fight in the fronline and don't belong with the archer in the back. All in all, they don't stand together.
1 Archer is not the same as a unit of archers. Nothing you say makes any difference to the point that they are not alone. They are standing near people who support them.
I don't know why you have such a fixation of standing away from the party, but even if the devs for some reason allowed you to benefit from party buffs all by your lonesome, the endgame group content is not suitable for you to do so. You will get grabbed by a phantom claw and crushed to death or by Strahd and drained dry. You will get hypothermia and die or the soak mechanic from Cradle. That's if the boss arena even allows you get far enough to do what you want. All because of your desire to avoid being supported by your team. And if one of those team mates runs to revive you or break the claw etc.. then the mechanic has taken two people out of the fight temporarily... all because you like to stand by yourself.
If anyone thinks an Archer should be in the middle of a melee battle between big burly characters swinging swords, axes, knives, maces, clubs, pitchforks, spoons or whatever... then there is no hope for you.
An Archer... pure archer... does not stand in the middle of melee combat. No matter if he is on his own, some other archers, with a single friend, an animal, a turnip... he is away from melee combat simple as that.
The Dev's have set up the Archer tree to do most of its damage out of group buff range with not enough to compensate them for it.
Simple solution is to have max damage at 25-30 so you dont actually have to stand a mile away. But everyone just argues about whether an Archer should fight at range... of course they sodding should thats what a proper Archer is and always has been throughout time.
All the Archer players are asking for here is to be part of the group at the distance THE GAME MAKERS SET FOR THE CLASS, dont blame the players for wanting to stand all the way out there... the game forces them to do so with so many Feats, Passives, Off-Hand Weapon and other mechanics.
You can share my Longstrider buff from half way across the map, why the hell cant I get a buff back from that range etc. Also if I chose Oak Skin or Stag Heart again other players get that buff from MILES away... its all one way and its no hardship to ask for the same back.
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It may be that they change their mind I have no insider information, but as it stands, their intent seems directly contrary to your desires.
With that, I am removing myself from this. I feel my point has been made, that simply granting some way for a lone character to get party buffs is not going to make the archery tree viable in this game. Should the devs change the way content is designed, then naturally this situation might change as well.
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The primary weapon of the HR is the bow. Not the blades. The HR is the only class that gets punished for wanting to use the primary weapon as intended.
> The overhaul they plan for the Archery tree is removing the range buff. I'm sorry if that isn't what you want, but that is their apparent intention. It seems completely far fetched to me that they will reverse course on not only that but on dungeon design, removing a jey aspect of team mechanics, just to satisfy the desire that some people have to play standing away from the group.
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> It may be that they change their mind I have no insider information, but as it stands, their intent seems directly contrary to your desires.
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> With that, I am removing myself from this. I feel my point has been made, that simply granting some way for a lone character to get party buffs is not going to make the archery tree viable in this game. Should the devs change the way content is designed, then naturally this situation might change as well.
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> Then they may as well remove the Hunting Hawk and any other companions that buff range/damage at range.
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> The primary weapon of the HR is the bow. Not the blades. The HR is the only class that gets punished for wanting to use the primary weapon as intended.
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> The main weapons for HR are blades and the bow, different feat trees have different strenghts around weapons, dont give devs any weird ideas that HR should be bow only class. Neverwinter and forgotten realms rangers are skilled in both the bow and blades. Melee and ranged.
Well, if we want to go lore-wise, then fighter class is the one that has more expertise with weapons than any other class and if there's a master of ranged weapons - that's definitely a fighter class. Of course - D&Dwise.
This particular thread for example, HR is 1 of the red headed step children in Neverwinter. We are almost always excluded from end-game content and ignored when responding to LFG shouts. Buff wise HR is at the complete bottom of builds, you are gutting Trapper in 15 making it as bad as Archery and you are nerfing Combat's Plant Growth.
I'm being 100% serious here, do any of you actually play the game, and if so are you all just playing DCs and GWFs? Hunter Ranger needs MEANINGFUL buffs, not lateral tweaks or nerfs, massive buffs, period.
I am not condening players being rude to one another but the venom in this and every other feedback thread for mod 15 should seriously tell you guys something, you are not un-touchable, as we speak Wildstar is going down in flames as have many other mmorpgs, if you continue to just flat out ignore your playerbase mod after mod, patch after patch you will be left with a revolving door of new players that spend 20 bucks and just move on.
Some numbers against bosses: In a midgame scenario, PG+GW will be roughly 40% of your damage, in an endgame scenario that will go up to 60% or more. Given that the midgame scenario is mostly likely to favor not running AotS, we'll run the numbers for that. Let's assume that in a base scenario (no AotS, no AotP), we deal 100 damage to the boss. Simplfying, since not all of our damage is buffed that way, we can say that with AotP we would instead deal 100*(1.08) = 108 damage to the boss. But what if we drop that for AotS instead? This assumes that we use two stacks (~1.25% multiplier) on GW (25% of our damage) and 1 stack (1.12% multiplier) on PG (15% of our damage. We end up with something that looks like: 60 + 25*(1.25) +15*(1.12) = 10.05 damage.
That's already an improvement, but we forgot to account for how the change of feature affects Piercing Blade, which is around 20% of our total DPS. Roughly 40% of PB damage comes from GW and 20% from PG. This gives us something like: 48 + 25*(1.25) + 15*(1.12) + 20*(0.4)*(1.25) + 20*(0.2)*(1.12) = 110.53 damage. Clearly, AotS has the potential to offer a DPS increase over AotP. This DPS increase will grow larger if PG+GW is a larger portion of your total damage.
TL;DR - AotS has the potential to increase DPS by a small amount in the midgame, with the benefit increasing even more in endgame.
I think the proposed change to AotS is an excellent idea, pending final Dmg%/Stack values. It smooths out the Trapper rotation if you happen to fumble it, has interesting possibilities for those Trappers with rotations that maximize Deft Strike, and offers a moderate risk/moderate reward option for Combat. That is, used correctly, AotS is a DPS buff, used poorly it will under-perform compared to AoTP. I would like to see more of these kind of options available to all classes.
For your reference, this guy does a great job on collecting feedback while able to communicate with the player base efficiently.
For instance Thorned Roots ONLY takes the Main Hand Weapon Damage into account.... even if you use Hindering Strike, a melee encounter power, the Thorned Roots from it only use the Bow.
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(Mod edited) Everybody is welcome to share their opinions.
School 1: Meta school
- Mathematically derived gameplay.
- Aggregate all discernable exploits.
- Pick and choose which is the most efficient classes.
- Small band of gameplay is acceptable.
- Focused on high-end gameplay only.
School 2: Natural Gameplay school
- Play the game naturally with the class you actually like (no bandwagon, no fairweather, no flavor of the moment).
- Balanced throughout solo, random and high-end or any type of gameplay, even PvP.
- Rely on gameplay interactions and experience which is incalculable in any other software/hardware.
We don't care if someone is trying to preserve the Meta school which is broken, and a perverted representation of Neverwinter Online.
Noworries should take note. I can prove which school is the "intended" gameplay.
Neverwinter DOES NOT require a calculator or ACT to play, hence School 2, the Natural Gameplay school is the way it's supposed to be played. Let me know if *Calculator and ACT required appears in any official text.
Another proof. If I take away calculators/ACT after Mod16's supposed major revamp or any major revamp for that matter, School 2 would be sad, horrified, powerless, hunched and confused over the computer unsure which button is to push, and will have no inkling or motivation to roll Archery. Isn't that enough proof which is the real "intended" gameplay?
So, Meta School people invading our Archery turf, which some of us played since Archery launch, and have high heavy investment on, and attempting to dictate gameplay without actually experience or love for the subtree, is easily checked.
To paraphrase a fable/parable of King Solomon:
Two women in his court claim mothership of a child. King Solomon decides the kid should be cut in half, just to be fair.
One woman said "No! rather than cut the child in half, give it to the other woman.".
King Solomon, in his wisdom, determines that the woman is Real Mother.
Well, guess which ones in this thread are the Real Archers? The ones who really like the subclass, play it even when it's underpowered and CERTAINLY don't want to unceremoniously get rid of it by keeping it alive.
All the Meta School wants is to preserve a broken system by asserting it's the "intended" way of gameplay. But rather than limit it to a narrow spectrum of class and builds and centered on high level content, it should be balanced and exploded to all builds.
All players have to go through 1-70 and 14 campaigns solo. This Meta School focus which in of itself is focused on broken, unintended interaction is should be the one that be reined in and neutralized for sake of class and gameplay balance.
Noworries should be paying attention to this.
Every time you use "math" argumented on this forums, a cute panda dies somewhere. Please, stop.
-snip-
Are Thorned Roots even considered to not work as intended in the meaning of that they aren't scale with all buffs? I'm not asking for the fix, I just want to know whether such problem exist in your internal bug tracker.
2 people were talking to each other not quite understanding what each was saying, so I pointed out what one of them was trying to say. I have not said anything incorrect at all.
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