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M15: Hunter Ranger Class Changes

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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,877Member Arc User
    Pvp shpuldnt even be a consideration imo. Pve ahould come first. Im so tired of pvp breaking pve when almost no one pvps anyway. There are like 20 of u. Dodge should be like dc imo. Fix careful attack get rid of the 3 stack and we are good to go imo
    xbox guild Excalibur (great endgame guild. highly recommended)

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  • mechjockeymechjockey Posts: 263Member Arc User

    TLDR - 1) have Stillness grant a flat Crit/dmg buff, or 2) have Stillness build stacks off of ranged attacks similar to Battle Crazed

    -------------



    0 stacks / 0 seconds: -25% Crit, -10% dmg

    4 stacks / 4 seconds: -15% Crit, +0% dmg

    5 stacks / 5 seconds: -12.5% Crit, +2.5% dmg

    6 stacks / 6 seconds: -10% Crit, +5% dmg

    Even at max stacks, the -10% Crit offsets the +5% dmg, decreasing overall DPS in most scenarios. Anything lower than 5 stacks is a significant decrease in DPS with no buffs at all to offset those losses. In short, without party buffs we would need to maintain near-constant max stacks to do even less dmg than we can do now.

    This assumes that the stacks actually build correctly. If there are bugs that reset stacks, as is reported on now on preview, then it would be even worse.



    Thanks this highlights one of the problems that has been bothering me about the changes in stillness. There is an inherent assumption that we can stay out of range of enemies 2/3rds of the time and still all the time.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,060Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    jonkoca said:

    Ok, I'll rectify with a few caveats, trapper stunbot builds have crappy damage compared to other similar IL classes in pvp, and the permastun build is so annoying it puts other people off playing. It's a troll build, adopted from desperation on the part of mid-level HRs in pvp. "Team orientated" means "no good alone", to the point where I have watched top trapper pvp toons do nothing in matches except follow another dps toon around and stun the HAMSTER out of that toon's victims.

    This means exactly: 'i don't like trappers because they have too easy to counter my archery'
    Troll build? Any build that kill my toon is troll build.
    This is either a disingenuous denial of how you actually feel or a false equivalence. EVERYONE is annoyed by trapper builds in pvp. They are also incapable of killing pretty much anything other than a glass cannon HR, since all other classes have better burst damage, dodges, survivability and (usually) control breaks/escapes.


    Crappy dmg? Trapper is combo of DECENT dmg and control. You want every toon in pvp to have dmg of tr? or gf?

    Trapper has awful damage in both pvp and pve. And no, I don't think TRs or GFs should have the damage-dealing ability that they do, since one-shot kills are by nature unbalanced and unfair. And by the way, I'd much rather be playing trapper (or really the mod 2 hybrid) in both, it's just impractical due to years of nerfs and neglect by the devs.



    Team orientated? Show me your archery do better alone than my trapper build. You won't cause it's impossible.

    Sure I can, just stay visible while you're occupied by another player for 1.5 seconds.


    Also show me 'another dps toon' killing rooted target and then not rooted, you'll see teamwork.
    That is just my little respond.

    Gee, you mean like the (unfortunately rare) times someone has the sense to kite a GF so his back is to me so I can take him out in one rotation? It's almost as if any two or more players can work together.


    Nevermind. Both me and @jonkoca are asking for survivability buff in pvp, nothing more is needed for this part of game.
    Btw. i asked to rework [crushing roots] and make them debuff instead of daze, but you are blinded by emotions and propably missed that.

    Nobody's blinded by emotions, we just don't owe you the time it takes to check on your post history.


    And once again i want to ask for not giving misleading information about certain specs/builds, or we never gonna get even close to balanced state of pvp. Thats all for now, waiting for another anti-stunbot post. Or maybe some objective post, who knows.

    We also don't owe you agreement.
  • raisinghelllraisinghelll Posts: 19Member Arc User

    Any opionions on allowing plant growth to hit more than 5 targets? I believe constricting's roots also have a target cap (correct me if I'm wrong) Maybe make this (PG target cap) exclusively an additional bonus on aTrapper feat? I feel like having a limited number of targets really hurts the DPS, along with the buffs not scaling. They stepped in the right direction by increasing the range of the roots, having a higher chance of hitting more targets is definitely needed.



    Another possible solution is to change the way Thorned roots damage is determined. Rather than depending on weapon damage, give it a base Damage percentage.



    Example: thorned roots deals 50% of the damage of the rooting attack. 60/70/80/90% damage with each upgrade. Control immune targets receive 100% etc.



    This would fix the scaling issue aswell.



    As it sits right now, Trapper is great for low level mobs, but newer content is making it harder to compete. Running LS, CA, and CoA Stacking buffs and nailing the rotation just to keep up in DPS, you're bound to make a mistake that changes the tide of your consistent damage. its quite a strain for damage that a class like the GwF would do with weapon master strike.

    Quoting this in hopes of getting more thoughts. Trappers damage would easily be on par with other Classes/specs if played correctly with these changes, imo. I'm not implying that the target cap has to be removed entirely, Devs, just look into maybe raising it to a reasonable number based on damage output, or reducing the range of the attack (The aoe) , but removing the cap, keeping it in line with others, not breaking the class.
  • sandfox#5862 sandfox Posts: 54Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:


    another more simple way to do this, IMO, is to standardized all buff range in this game to act like Knight Valor buff from guardian fighter class.

    This makes sense. However, it's a huge change that would require the devs to recode most of the buff powers in the game. Also, many of the buffs have animations to identify where the boundaries are. Those animations would need to be eliminated or changed. That's a ton of work just to make accommodate HR Archers...the devs won't do it.

    Also, giving all buffs more range makes them more powerful and that could change the meta significantly, potentially imbalancing other classes and causing other unintended consequences.
    kangkeok said:


    Frankly, there is absolutely no need to touch stillness of forest

    I agree with you. I'm fine with Archery the way it is, as a solid dps PvP build. But if the devs want to change it to make it more viable in PvE group content, they should change it to something that makes things better, not worse.
    kangkeok said:


    it does not prevent people from making a hybrid archer + combat build as it is the only feat in archery tree with such trigger point and could be drop in exchange for melee feat.

    Yes, you're right. Yarrow's Hybrid Archery build is great and already gives close-range Archers party buffs. The proposed changes to Stillness are not needed. Again though, if they are going to change it, they should change it to something that works.

  • djnasty93djnasty93 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    Only way of Hr to keep his dmg buff always up its movement speed, LSS time of speed multiplier its too low to be used every 4 seconds, remember that a buff must be 100% of the time active or it lost its effectivness...
    there are 2 modes to get far from a boss or mobs and use LSS every 4 second, high run speed, trapper build with archer feat to reload 30% faster (no need crit==reload feats) but like this Hr lost 99% of his dmg causing him to become a DC with a lot less buffs.. i like to think HR can do various jobs in team, its the only class that if something its not going good he can swap powers and make it easier at the cost of dmg, but if his skills are not healing, the Fox encounter its not workin on Dps (over time) dmg, so this is useless for his utility in support, you can make Fox Deviation encounter, to durate 2 or 3 seconds and make someone like invincible for thoose seconds instead of ONE free deviation that its not the solution.... for real one atk when Dps its inside 3 mobs, its something? can the hr be a real support? with thoose changes Hr will not be a buff, healer of support, he stay in mid (combat build dps, trapper build buff, archer build debuff)..

    PS: bleeding duration its bugged cause it wont least 5 seconds on boss, you need to fix this so boss can get more dmg before bleeding goes down (all combat build its based on bleeding)

    Please watch HR in the right mode cause its powerful, its creative, its multi face with his powers, but are baby powers, they are not used in endgame content cause healing deviation and dmg resistance or DMG buff LSS are not effective, i laugh when i hear HR Buff cause his only buff its LSS and you cant use LSS if you got no movement speed (i got a build only with movement speed, to buff better) stupid things its that you can make Full action points build and use the PathFinder Daily to go near enemy (regenerate resistance/shield) but after this you need to go far to use LSS, that gives you run speed to return near enemy... makes LSS speed buff duration 8 seconds, so we can rotate every power near boss and not far 'in air' to go far, near

    Andrea
  • djnasty93djnasty93 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    HR got 2 Debuffs and one Dmg Buff that must be used really fast to be 80% of the time active, bleeding can be a debuff if you raise uf his dmg...
  • djnasty93djnasty93 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    Hunter == Stealth 'assassin' | Ranger == Nature based Healing
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
    edited October 2018


    Also, giving all buffs more range makes them more powerful and that could change the meta significantly, potentially imbalancing other classes and causing other unintended consequences.

    IMO they should be focusing on fixing the party buff 1st, even if it mean they have to put in the code one by one. Only by then we can accurately tell what the tree needs and how much tweaking are needed to buff or nerf it. Its a waste of time to do whatever the changes to archery tree, prior before the buff range fix, only to have it tone back down or up when it become too powerful or are still underperforming after the fix is implemented. That will only leave more room for bugs and mistakes.
  • patcherrkmpatcherrkm Posts: 109Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    They don’t need to change all party buffs. All they need to do is create a buff link between you and your Prey. That is if your Pray is in range for buffs then you actually get the buff.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,060Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I'd really like to know why they thought it was necessary to penalize HRs, and only HRs, by limiting buffs so that they no longer affect companions. Were our companions doing out of control damage? Were the few seconds they stay alive in boss fights just too much, and it was just intolerable that we'd get to full binding stone stacks every once in a while?

    I don't know how much of a difference it will actually make, but it seems completely unnecessary and typical of the way the devs keep tinkering with the class to screw it up in ways no other class has to deal with, but rarely (every two years or so) seem to fix any of its actual problems.

    Hey Cryptic: STOP making HR the target of unique nerfs and actually bring it up to parity with other DPS classes.
  • sandfox#5862 sandfox Posts: 54Member Arc User

    I'd really like to know why they thought it was necessary to penalize HRs, and only HRs, by limiting buffs so that they no longer affect companions.

    Probably because they didn't want to have HRs accidentally buffing their comps with buffs meant for other players.

    A much better solution would be to give the comp the buff automatically for free, and not count it towards the max targets.
  • hastur905hastur905 Posts: 98Member Arc User
    OK here is my video showing a Close Combat Archer VS a Full Combat.
    Things to note:
    1. I do not main a combat, this is my 7th run as a combat spec., my point being I am not very good at it.
    2. ! do main close combat Archery and I feel I am better than the average.
    3. All the gear used it from Archery build for both runs, meaning I am not min/maxing the combat build.
    4. I did run ACT, so if you request proof I will provide it.
    The proof is in the video, and if you are looking to improve this class we need to first recognize we need to fix the discrepancy in damage between a close combat archer and a combat before we can address the damage difference when playing ranged. Do I think that in a risk/reward system that combat should have slightly more damage .... yes. But a 40-50% more damage on trash mobs ... um no. It is possible that the change to archery capstone will make archery more competitive at final bosses to the combat, but you have to get there first ... Anyway I will let the video tell the rest of the story.

    https://youtu.be/0EniwvPa3rU
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,060Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    List of changes edited to to be limited to the inexplicable, pointless and uncalled-for nerfs (and just awful decisions) that should be removed:

    Hey Hunter Rangers,

    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 10 seconds (down from 20 seconds)
    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 5 seconds against players (down from 10 seconds)

    Buff revamp for HR:

    • All Buffs: Companions can no longer benefit from these powers
    • “Hawkeye” increases the damage you deal with encounter powers by 5% (down from 15%).
    • Fox's Cunning (Revamped): Duration reduced to 8 seconds (down from 12 seconds)
    • Fox's Cunning: Base Cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 20)
    • Fox's Cunning: Now reduces the cooldown of Fox's Cunning by 2 second per rank (rather than 3 seconds at rank 4
    • Aspect of the Serpent (Revamped): Damage reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Damage per rank reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Maximum Stacks increased to 3 (up from 2)
    • Bladestorm (Revamp): Chance reduced to 20% (down from 25%)
    I'm singliing this out because it got by me earlier:


    Stormstep Action (Revamp): Now reduces the cooldown of encounters based on AP spent
    • Up to 2 seconds off at 100% AP spent
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 2 seconds at rank 1 (up from 1 second)
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 1 second for each rank-up (up from 0.5 seconds)
    So, if I read this correctly, it destroys synergy with Disruptive Shot, which Stromstep Action was obviously built around in the first place. Now rank 4 Stormstep will only reduce cooldowns by 1.25 seconds ((base of 2 + 3 from ranks)/4) instead of 2.5 seconds. It's not as if high-end combat SWs were using it anyway, but this is a pointless move and a bad idea.


    Pathfinder's Action: Run speed per rank-up reduced to 5% (down from 6%)
    Stillness of the Forest (Reworked): Now increases your damage dealt and crit chance by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% for each second that you stand still, stacking up to 6 times. You will lose 1 stack per second while moving. Stacks are not lost while out of combat.
    Predator (Reworked): Using a ranged encounter power applies "Prey" to the first target hit for 10 seconds. You deal 20% increased damage to the first target hit by your powers and this bonus is doubled for targets affected by Prey. Prey may only be active on one target at a time and cannot be reapplied until it expires.
    Predator: Now correctly increases the damage you deal to an enemy (Rather than decrease the enemy's damage resistance for your attacks)
    Predator: This feat is no longer half as effective on players
    Ancient Roots: Weak Grasping Roots duration lowered to .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2 (from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5)
    Ancient Roots: Strong Grasping Roots duration lowered to .8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 (from 1/2/3/4/5)

    These are all the nerfs affecting a class that needed buffs instead. As usual, when Cryptic meddles with the HR class it goes in ignoring player input (of which there has been plenty. I've started at least six threads they could have used), not knowing anything about how the class functions and with an agenda that seems to be more about making tweaks that no one wants and no one asked for than about addressing long-established concerns.

    I'm leaving in the change to Predator because it was needlessly reduced from 40%.

  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I supported this one,

    Predator: Now correctly increases the damage you deal to an enemy (Rather than decrease the enemy's damage resistance for your attacks)

    That's a real fix. Other than that, I still think the developer shouldn't touch archery tree till they fix the party buff issue.
  • mechjockeymechjockey Posts: 263Member Arc User
    edited October 2018

    List of changes edited to to be limited to the inexplicable, pointless and uncalled-for nerfs (and just awful decisions) that should be removed:

    Hey Hunter Rangers,

    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 10 seconds (down from 20 seconds)
    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 5 seconds against players (down from 10 seconds)

    Buff revamp for HR:

    • All Buffs: Companions can no longer benefit from these powers
    • “Hawkeye” increases the damage you deal with encounter powers by 5% (down from 15%).
    • Fox's Cunning (Revamped): Duration reduced to 8 seconds (down from 12 seconds)
    • Fox's Cunning: Base Cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 20)
    • Fox's Cunning: Now reduces the cooldown of Fox's Cunning by 2 second per rank (rather than 3 seconds at rank 4
    • Aspect of the Serpent (Revamped): Damage reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Damage per rank reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Maximum Stacks increased to 3 (up from 2)
    • Bladestorm (Revamp): Chance reduced to 20% (down from 25%)
    I'm singliing this out because it got by me earlier:


    Stormstep Action (Revamp): Now reduces the cooldown of encounters based on AP spent
    • Up to 2 seconds off at 100% AP spent
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 2 seconds at rank 1 (up from 1 second)
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 1 second for each rank-up (up from 0.5 seconds)
    So, if I read this correctly, it destroys synergy with Disruptive Shot, which Stromstep Action was obviously built around in the first place. Now rank 4 Stormstep will only reduce cooldowns by 1.25 seconds ((base of 2 + 3 from ranks)/4) instead of 2.5 seconds. It's not as if high-end combat SWs were using it anyway, but this is a pointless move and a bad idea.


    Pathfinder's Action: Run speed per rank-up reduced to 5% (down from 6%)
    Stillness of the Forest (Reworked): Now increases your damage dealt and crit chance by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% for each second that you stand still, stacking up to 6 times. You will lose 1 stack per second while moving. Stacks are not lost while out of combat.
    Predator (Reworked): Using a ranged encounter power applies "Prey" to the first target hit for 10 seconds. You deal 20% increased damage to the first target hit by your powers and this bonus is doubled for targets affected by Prey. Prey may only be active on one target at a time and cannot be reapplied until it expires.
    Predator: Now correctly increases the damage you deal to an enemy (Rather than decrease the enemy's damage resistance for your attacks)
    Predator: This feat is no longer half as effective on players
    Ancient Roots: Weak Grasping Roots duration lowered to .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2 (from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5)
    Ancient Roots: Strong Grasping Roots duration lowered to .8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 (from 1/2/3/4/5)

    These are all the nerfs affecting a class that needed buffs instead. As usual, when Cryptic meddles with the HR class it goes in ignoring player input (of which there has been plenty. I've started at least six threads they could have used), not knowing anything about how the class functions and with an agenda that seems to be more about making tweaks that no one wants and no one asked for than about addressing long-established concerns.

    I'm leaving in the change to Predator because it was needlessly reduced from 40%.

    Taking Hawkeye down from 15% to 5% just looks like kicking people while they are already down. There are times when you need hawkshot in your tray playing an archer at range and hawkeye comes in very hand for when you find yourself forced into melee.

    Same goes for Fox's cunning (Don't use it. I have to think that is directed at PVP)

  • divectoredivectore Posts: 149Member Arc User

    List of changes edited to to be limited to the inexplicable, pointless and uncalled-for nerfs (and just awful decisions) that should be removed:

    Hey Hunter Rangers,

    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 10 seconds (down from 20 seconds)
    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 5 seconds against players (down from 10 seconds)

    Buff revamp for HR:

    • All Buffs: Companions can no longer benefit from these powers
    • “Hawkeye” increases the damage you deal with encounter powers by 5% (down from 15%).
    • Fox's Cunning (Revamped): Duration reduced to 8 seconds (down from 12 seconds)
    • Fox's Cunning: Base Cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 20)
    • Fox's Cunning: Now reduces the cooldown of Fox's Cunning by 2 second per rank (rather than 3 seconds at rank 4
    • Aspect of the Serpent (Revamped): Damage reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Damage per rank reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Maximum Stacks increased to 3 (up from 2)
    • Bladestorm (Revamp): Chance reduced to 20% (down from 25%)
    I'm singliing this out because it got by me earlier:


    Stormstep Action (Revamp): Now reduces the cooldown of encounters based on AP spent
    • Up to 2 seconds off at 100% AP spent
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 2 seconds at rank 1 (up from 1 second)
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 1 second for each rank-up (up from 0.5 seconds)
    So, if I read this correctly, it destroys synergy with Disruptive Shot, which Stromstep Action was obviously built around in the first place. Now rank 4 Stormstep will only reduce cooldowns by 1.25 seconds ((base of 2 + 3 from ranks)/4) instead of 2.5 seconds. It's not as if high-end combat SWs were using it anyway, but this is a pointless move and a bad idea.


    Pathfinder's Action: Run speed per rank-up reduced to 5% (down from 6%)
    Stillness of the Forest (Reworked): Now increases your damage dealt and crit chance by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% for each second that you stand still, stacking up to 6 times. You will lose 1 stack per second while moving. Stacks are not lost while out of combat.
    Predator (Reworked): Using a ranged encounter power applies "Prey" to the first target hit for 10 seconds. You deal 20% increased damage to the first target hit by your powers and this bonus is doubled for targets affected by Prey. Prey may only be active on one target at a time and cannot be reapplied until it expires.
    Predator: Now correctly increases the damage you deal to an enemy (Rather than decrease the enemy's damage resistance for your attacks)
    Predator: This feat is no longer half as effective on players
    Ancient Roots: Weak Grasping Roots duration lowered to .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2 (from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5)
    Ancient Roots: Strong Grasping Roots duration lowered to .8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 (from 1/2/3/4/5)

    These are all the nerfs affecting a class that needed buffs instead. As usual, when Cryptic meddles with the HR class it goes in ignoring player input (of which there has been plenty. I've started at least six threads they could have used), not knowing anything about how the class functions and with an agenda that seems to be more about making tweaks that no one wants and no one asked for than about addressing long-established concerns.

    I'm leaving in the change to Predator because it was needlessly reduced from 40%.

    Taking Hawkeye down from 15% to 5% just looks like kicking people while they are already down. There are times when you need hawkshot in your tray playing an archer at range and hawkeye comes in very hand for when you find yourself forced into melee.

    Same goes for Fox's cunning (Don't use it. I have to think that is directed at PVP)

    if you would have read the whole thing, you'll notice that hawkeye was nerfed at base but buffed too, since now grants more damage per rank, up to 12,5% more damage at rank 4, and the new "primal instincts" improve that percentage, in my tests, my damage was increased to 22,3% with hawkeye + primal instincts.
    Also fox cunning wasn't nerfed at all, it still does the same thing with the same timings at max rank.
  • gendoikari2001#3561 gendoikari2001 Posts: 27Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I guess they could just force all the other classes to fight at range :tongue: That's about as sensible as making archers fight in melee range and stand still. Because Hasty Retreat, Swift Footwork, Ghostwalker, Fleet Stance (for hybrid trapper/archers) all just scream out "STAND STILL," right? I can see it now - OP's flinging their sword and shield around on long chains, GWF's being forced to throw daggers to do decent DPS, and GF's that have to use long poles and mantraps to keep enemies from chasing after the rest of the party. And let's not forget the clerics! Let's give them CLUBS instead of ranged powers. And make the wizards use swords like Gandalf, while we're at it.

    Seriously, all joking aside, and Archer has no business in melee or standing still when targeted by an enemy; we have other feats designed to take advantage of our enchanced mobility that make no sense with the new "Stillness of the Forest." The new Stillness, btw, refers to an outer stillness where the spirit of the original seemed to refer to an inner calm that steadied our aim and made us better able to hit critical locations on our enemies. And it's still completely non-functional on the preview server as of my last test. I have a loadout with it at rank 5, and a copy of the same with rank 0, nothing else changed. It's a complete do-nothing skill at the moment.
  • wdj40wdj40 Posts: 1,954Member Arc User
    I agree.... I have threatened to quit the game and it is a real possiblity. I will of course give it a try and see where things stand in Mod 15 once its released on Consoles.

    But my PvP Archer will lose 10% or more damage and will lose 25% Crit chance... that is a stupid amount to be losing for nothing. He will lose Stillness of the Forest amongst other things.

    Then my PvE Pathfinder Trapper will be dead... if the changes to Aspect of the Serpent happen, without being able to build Melee and Ranged stacks at the same time, then 7-8 attacks before switching stances will wreck the DPS. I will not be able to get all of my hard hitting Encounters etc to hit before Longstrider ends. That is 7-8 attacks but dont forget with Careful Attack bugging the stacks (yes it still half happens) it will be even more attacks before switching!
    I already have to suffer with a broken Careful Attack THAT I REPORTED AT LEAST BACK IN MAY WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE!!!!!!

    Not interested in Combat, that path is so boring and I can play a melee character if that is what I actually wanted to do... I am not particulary interested in Stormwarden either.

    Basically the 2 paths and builds I play and enjoy are going to be taken away from me.... even though I have never glitched the game or killed people with broken items/powers etc... Always played fair and with honour but feel like I get punished now.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,060Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2018

    I guess they could just force all the other classes to fight at range :tongue: That's about as sensible as making archers fight in melee range and stand still. Because Hasty Retreat, Swift Footwork, Ghostwalker, Fleet Stance (for hybrid trapper/archers) all just scream out "STAND STILL," right? I can see it now - OP's flinging their sword and shield around on long chains, GWF's being forced to throw daggers to do decent DPS,

    I see what you did there. Fortunately Cryptic has foreseen your concerns, and in their endless quest for class balance they have given GWFs a ranged encounter power that does better damage than HR ranged encounter powers, given GFs a long lunge and a knockback that works against opponents on pillars, and even given paladins ranged powers. Let's not forget that TR's Cloud of Steel has long range and does more damage per second than any HR ranged at-will except possibly a buffed Aimed Shot.

    Cryptic class balance: HR gets the worst of everything, no other class has to put up with anything less effective than the most effective HR abilities.

    Post edited by feanor70118 on
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,060Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I think there's a consensus here on a few things:
    1) The change to Stillness of the Forest is a terrible idea.

    It makes absolutely no sense to require players to stay still whether in pve oir pvp. Constant movement is required in both. Just the loooooooooooooooooooooong animation of Split The Sky causes a player to fall behind in most dungeon runs. Since HR has no survivability in pvp, due to an inadequate length of dodge, slow stamina recovery in pvp, the dodge's failure to avoid control effects, longstanding (and uncalled for) nerfs to Fox's Cunning, WIlds Medicine and the abject failure to buff Oak Skin, Boar Hide and Stag Heart to meaningful post-mod 5 levels, movement is the class' only means or staying alive. The more appropriate action would have been to undo the nerf to Fox's Cunning and to increase the length and effect of movement buffs. It would also have been a good idea to finally make it possible for the class to attack while moving, to shorten its animations, to hide their visibilty while in stealth from other players, to buff the class' stealth abilities, to eliminate the animation of Forest Ghost.........

    2) The increase in Aspect of the Serpent stacks is a terrible idea.

    The trapper play style is one of the few things HR really has going for it. There was absolutely no need to change it. There is even less need to start interjecting the class' powder-puff, meaningless at-wills into the rotation. Appropriate changes to the trapper path would have been: to make thorned roots damage stack, make it scale with all buffs, abilities and enchantments, and to undo the target-cap nerf to fox's cunning.

    3) None of the proposed changes meaningfully contribute to balancing the HR class by bringing the trapper or archery paths up to parity with combat, much less other classes, in pve or pvp whether as a DPS class or a buffer.

    4) Apart from the fix to dodge immunity frames, none of the proposed changes are responsive to player concerns.

  • raisinghelllraisinghelll Posts: 19Member Arc User
    edited October 2018

    I think there's a consensus here on a few things:
    1) The change to Stillness of the Forest is a terrible idea.

    It makes absolutely no sense to require players to stay still whether in pve oir pvp. Constant movement is required in both. Just the loooooooooooooooooooooong animation of Split The Sky causes a player to fall behind in most dungeon runs. Since HR has no survivability in pvp, due to an inadequate length of dodge, slow stamina recovery in pvp, the dodge's failure to avoid control effects, longstanding (and uncalled for) nerfs to Fox's Cunning, WIlds Medicine and the abject failure to buff Oak Skin, Boar Hide and Stag Heart to meaningful post-mod 5 levels, movement is the class' only means or staying alive. The more appropriate action would have been to undo the nerf to Fox's Cunning and to increase the length and effect of movement buffs. It would also have been a good idea to finally make it possible for the class to attack while moving, to shorten its animations, to hide their visibilty while in stealth from other players, to buff the class' stealth abilities, to eliminate the animation of Forest Ghost.........

    2) The increase in Aspect of the Serpent stacks is a terrible idea.

    The trapper play style is one of the few things HR really has going for it. There was absolutely no need to change it. There is even less need to start interjecting the class' powder-puff, meaningless at-wills into the rotation. Appropriate changes to the trapper path would have been: to make thorned roots damage stack, make it scale with all buffs, abilities and enchantments, and to undo the target-cap nerf to fox's cunning.

    3) None of the proposed changes meaningfully contribute to balancing the HR class by bringing the trapper or archery paths up to parity with combat, much less other classes, in pve or pvp whether as a DPS class or a buffer.

    4) Apart from the fix to dodge immunity frames, none of the proposed changes are responsive to player concerns.

    I agree with everything. I would like to add removing the target cap to Thorned roots and possibly Plant growth Aswell. Other than that, well put.

    Edit: I forgot to mention working the way party buffs work. The changes won't be noticeable until this is fixed.

    👍
    Post edited by raisinghelll on
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Posts: 703Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Who in their right mind is even thinking that the proposed changes to Aspect of the Serpent is a good idea, or even needed to begin with?

    As (many) other posters have said: Thorned Roots need to stack & be scaled with buffs, Plant Growth target cap need to be reverted to the way it was before the big rework (as in no target cap)

    Also the HR dodge is kinda iffy, I don't think I want the dodge distance increased, but it could benefit from an additional "charge".

    *And ALL Weapon enchantments obviously need to work with all encounters/powers and scale appropriately, this goes for all classes*
  • raisinghelllraisinghelll Posts: 19Member Arc User
    Has anyone thought of adding party buff range, or a party buff guarantee to aspect of the pack?
  • sandfox#5862 sandfox Posts: 54Member Arc User
    If there was a feat in the Archery tree that made Aspect of the Pack give you all AoE buffs any other party member had, that would fix the problem quite nicely. Stillness could remain untouched and you could be at distance, while enjoying all relevant party buffs. I think that's the best solution so far.
  • Has anyone thought of adding party buff range, or a party buff guarantee to aspect of the pack?

    Or at least making Aspect of the Pack work with augment companions? And no, I don't want to get into a bonding vs. edritch debate. It's just nice to have options.
  • raisinghelllraisinghelll Posts: 19Member Arc User

    If there was a feat in the Archery tree that made Aspect of the Pack give you all AoE buffs any other party member had, that would fix the problem quite nicely. Stillness could remain untouched and you could be at distance, while enjoying all relevant party buffs. I think that's the best solution so far.


    At this point it wouldn't even need to be exclusively a certain path's feat. All three paths suffer from a DPS fallout when using skills like LSS. Obviously Archery suffers the worst but with Trappers constant in and out with LSS is noticeable Aswell.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
    Lets leave aspect of the pack as it is. Giving range archer aspect of the pack and the party buff might make archer a little overbuff. So lets just focus on extending the party buff.

    Besides, Its kinda fit in the lore that aspect of the pack work when people are within the pack and not isolated. Breaking the lore just to conveniently buff a build is abit ...
  • mechjockeymechjockey Posts: 263Member Arc User
    divectore said:

    divectore said:

    List of changes edited to to be limited to the inexplicable, pointless and uncalled-for nerfs (and just awful decisions) that should be removed:

    Hey Hunter Rangers,

    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 10 seconds (down from 20 seconds)
    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 5 seconds against players (down from 10 seconds)

    Buff revamp for HR:

    • All Buffs: Companions can no longer benefit from these powers
    • “Hawkeye” increases the damage you deal with encounter powers by 5% (down from 15%).
    • Fox's Cunning (Revamped): Duration reduced to 8 seconds (down from 12 seconds)
    • Fox's Cunning: Base Cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 20)
    • Fox's Cunning: Now reduces the cooldown of Fox's Cunning by 2 second per rank (rather than 3 seconds at rank 4
    • Aspect of the Serpent (Revamped): Damage reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Damage per rank reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    • Aspect of the Serpent: Maximum Stacks increased to 3 (up from 2)
    • Bladestorm (Revamp): Chance reduced to 20% (down from 25%)
    I'm singliing this out because it got by me earlier:


    Stormstep Action (Revamp): Now reduces the cooldown of encounters based on AP spent
    • Up to 2 seconds off at 100% AP spent
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 2 seconds at rank 1 (up from 1 second)
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 1 second for each rank-up (up from 0.5 seconds)
    So, if I read this correctly, it destroys synergy with Disruptive Shot, which Stromstep Action was obviously built around in the first place. Now rank 4 Stormstep will only reduce cooldowns by 1.25 seconds ((base of 2 + 3 from ranks)/4) instead of 2.5 seconds. It's not as if high-end combat SWs were using it anyway, but this is a pointless move and a bad idea.


    Pathfinder's Action: Run speed per rank-up reduced to 5% (down from 6%)
    Stillness of the Forest (Reworked): Now increases your damage dealt and crit chance by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% for each second that you stand still, stacking up to 6 times. You will lose 1 stack per second while moving. Stacks are not lost while out of combat.
    Predator (Reworked): Using a ranged encounter power applies "Prey" to the first target hit for 10 seconds. You deal 20% increased damage to the first target hit by your powers and this bonus is doubled for targets affected by Prey. Prey may only be active on one target at a time and cannot be reapplied until it expires.
    Predator: Now correctly increases the damage you deal to an enemy (Rather than decrease the enemy's damage resistance for your attacks)
    Predator: This feat is no longer half as effective on players
    Ancient Roots: Weak Grasping Roots duration lowered to .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2 (from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5)
    Ancient Roots: Strong Grasping Roots duration lowered to .8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 (from 1/2/3/4/5)

    These are all the nerfs affecting a class that needed buffs instead. As usual, when Cryptic meddles with the HR class it goes in ignoring player input (of which there has been plenty. I've started at least six threads they could have used), not knowing anything about how the class functions and with an agenda that seems to be more about making tweaks that no one wants and no one asked for than about addressing long-established concerns.

    I'm leaving in the change to Predator because it was needlessly reduced from 40%.

    Taking Hawkeye down from 15% to 5% just looks like kicking people while they are already down. There are times when you need hawkshot in your tray playing an archer at range and hawkeye comes in very hand for when you find yourself forced into melee.

    Same goes for Fox's cunning (Don't use it. I have to think that is directed at PVP)

    if you would have read the whole thing, you'll notice that hawkeye was nerfed at base but buffed too, since now grants more damage per rank, up to 12,5% more damage at rank 4, and the new "primal instincts" improve that percentage, in my tests, my damage was increased to 22,3% with hawkeye + primal instincts.
    Also fox cunning wasn't nerfed at all, it still does the same thing with the same timings at max rank.
    Fox's cunning could be maintained in a fire when up don't worry about it manner before now it can't. That's a nerf.

    And yes it's doubleplus good that they buffed hawkeye from 15% to 12.5%
    oh wait you thought everyone had primal instincts ?

    Are we talking about the same power? fox cunning is a encounter that allows you to dodge 1 attack every 17 seconds at rank 4, what do you mean it could be up in a fire? now you can dodge an attack every 16 secs at rank 4 it's not the end of the world. Neither hawkeye or fox cunning were "totally" nerfed, because those powers are used 97% of time on pvp only, and people in pvp, of course, will use primal instincts, if you are using fox cunning and hawkshot in pve.......

    .

    If you'd read the whole thread, you'll notice that I have gone through the entire thing in detail before. If you'd read the first line of my post, you'll notice that this was just to isolate the nerfs. The obvious reason for that is to show that whatever buffs we get are, for no reason at all, accompanied by enough nerfs to render them meaningless.

    Part of my point, which you obviously didn't bother to read, was that tinkering with abilities so that they do they same thing in a different way is a waste of time and effort especially for a class that requires buffs. If you can't be bothered to read the whole discussion - or even the post you're responding to - your opinions contribute nothing productive.

    I've been reading some of your posts but i simply can't, you are mostly butthurting without contributing where it really matters
    Your point about tinkering, you aren't a new player, you won't notice that at lower ranks, powers have hard effectivness curves, those little touches are easy to do and doesn't require further testing like a revamped power.

    And i stopped reading when you mentioned the thing about gwf/tr dealing twice damage with 3k item lvl less, lead me to believe that you neither know how to play HR and you don't own a CW/TR or GWF.
    Fox's cunning used to be something you could use every time it ran out and get your avoided attack if you were attacked. Now it has a gap. That's nice for PVP as the guy fighting you can know when your gap is coming, or if you have it up and void it with a throw away.

    If there was a feat in the Archery tree that made Aspect of the Pack give you all AoE buffs any other party member had, that would fix the problem quite nicely. Stillness could remain untouched and you could be at distance, while enjoying all relevant party buffs. I think that's the best solution so far.


    At this point it wouldn't even need to be exclusively a certain path's feat. All three paths suffer from a DPS fallout when using skills like LSS. Obviously Archery suffers the worst but with Trappers constant in and out with LSS is noticeable Aswell.
    Well they would have to make sure it's either always on or something that can easily be triggered. Which doesn't seem to be the way they are going (looks over at buffs not affecting companions anymore)
  • divectoredivectore Posts: 149Member Arc User



    Fox's cunning used to be something you could use every time it ran out and get your avoided attack if you were attacked. Now it has a gap. That's nice for PVP as the guy fighting you can know when your gap is coming, or if you have it up and void it with a throw away.

    I don't know if you have ever pvp, either now or 3 years ago, but fox cunning has never been a game changer, you can dodge a single attack (only damage, you still can get controlled), which isn't much when a warlock or a wizard can hit you 10 times a second.
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