You said: "Same reason why I think that something below 4X is fine for the green and blue laborers and tools as well. If commons are worth so much less than greens but greens are in line with blues and purples as being of equal value then people just upgrade to green, including buying common tools to upgrade to green, and they are done."
I think you may be making some erroneous assumptions. Unless this is something that occurs for mastercrafters or people with high level guild crafting access, you cannot upgrade white/commons to greens. Neither artisans nor tools. You can upgrade artisans from 4xTier1 to 1xTier2, or 4xTier2 to 1xTier3, but that is all. I do not think you can upgrade common tools at all.
You are right. You can not turn whites into greens, but the rest stands.
The time, effort, and whatever expenses involved in getting greens, turning them into blues, and turning blues into purples warrants a greater than 4X redemption value over the next lower rarity.
@asterdahl, Thanks for the reply. It is best to reply to a post, but could you only reply that you read posts? It is three weeks until the release, and I am worried that the similar posts will be repeatedly if there is no reply at all.
Additionally confirmed defects In tailoring: Shimmerweave Thread +1 is not exist or cannot referable.
In jewelcrafting: Rubellite, Scintillant, Silverspruce and Sphene Ring +1's item level is low (+0 is 560, +1 is 540).
First of all, you’re speculating as to how these artisans are constructed. Until we hear from the devs, or list them all out and infer the rules, this is a guess or an assumption.
Secondly, and more importantly, it doesn’t matter: Commission/speed/special ability don’t matter when a failure means a multi-million-AD loss. The only thing that matters is the chance of success.
Those other things might matter for frequently repeated tasks, such as those in the gathering profession or some of the L1-70 resource crafting tasks, but I’m talking about Masterwork Crafting here.
Matters to you. There is no doubt that the success rate matters, but I imagine a lot of people would trade some of their chance at success to increase their chances of getting a higher-quality item, to pay less for the job to begin with, or to bring any of the various special abilities into play.
I'll grant that for the high-end jobs speed probably doesn't matter as much because that is where most people will likely be spending most of their morale, but all of those other things do, even if not for you.
And there isn't really any speculating going on. Asterdahl was just here and said as much. I won't pretend to know how much weight they give the different things, never said I did, but they all have weight. But if you only value proficiency then I guess you wouldn't think that anything could possibly balance artisans with different proficiency numbers.
I don’t mean to be snippy, but please make sure you understand the system before encouraging Cryptic to make further nerfs. They nerf enough as it is, they don’t need any encouragement with that.
I made an error. I already admitted to that error when it was pointed out earlier. I took level upgrades for common workers and mixed it all up in my brain with the quality upgrades for uncommon and rare workers.
You know... Not trying to be snippy or anything, but this reminds me of someone that points out a typo and thinks that that it negates the substance of whatever the person said.
Green workers and tools should not be worth 1/4 of blue workers or tools and blue workers and tools should not be worth 1/4 of purple workers or tools because the time spent upgrading workers and tools and the expense and effort of getting them should be worth something.
But looking at the market right now, purple laborers are undervalued in every skill that I checked.
The prices in weaponsmithing, for example, are, for the low prices, around 4K/9K/24K for green/blue/purple (just looking at the current low prices).
Looking at needles, though, they are following a more sensible pattern with blues worth a little over 4X greens and purples worth a little over 4X blues.
So if they used the market to help then figure redemption prices, as Asterdahl said, this would explain things.
Laborers are disproportionately valuable at the lower rarity levels and tools are more valuable in proportion at the higher levels.
For an ordinary player, the chance of making improved tools is zero. An attempt to perform adamantine tools in the hope of obtaining the +1 version only leads to the loss of gold. Chance to +1 from 3-25% focus Performed 60 Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer.. Result: 0 products +1. Again, you punish players who have the least. Chance should be increased. Remove this HAMSTER RNG This HAMSTER hammer gives only +20 focus. We will not earn millions of ad on him ... Such an attempt would last on live serwer six days or would cost 240k AD. Is this really okay?
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
And that might seem absurd, since it would include that player firing/declining whatever purple artisans showed up looking for work, but it would be possible and I am sure that they do not want anyone doing that.
IMHO purple artisans are not all great. They have stats up to 400, but I had +200% commission/+200% speed. That makes things cost 3 times the normal amount. Getting things completed more quickly is not as important when you have the morale.
There are a few epic artisans who have lower commission costs, but as a whole they are generally higher skilled but cost more. Epic artisans are not meant to replace rare or common artisans in all cases, depending on how much you craft, you may ideally want a variety of artisans for various situations.
An epic artisan might be appropriate for having the highest chance to get a high-quality result on a finished piece of equipment with expensive materials, but may not be suited for mass producing cheap materials.
Old people-assets give, in “Asset Exchange Credit”:
White: 1 Green: 2,000 Blue: 8,000 Purple: 20,000
So that means green and blue people-assets are better to have than purple ones. Is that intended? It seems like purple assets should be worth 32,000 in this scheme.
Meanwhile, asset-tools give, in “Asset Exchange Credit”:
I like this scheme a lot better, except that a purple tool is worth much less than a purple person, even though, in the old system, they came interchangeably from the same professions packs. Maybe the probabilities were different behind the scenes, but the possibility of a (e.g.) purple “asset” drop was always stated independent of whether the asset was a person or a tool.
So it seems like they should have the same values.
Either way, and perhaps much more importantly: With the numbers above, a “Professions Artisan Recruitment” voucher is 200,000 Asset Exchange Credits, for a *chance* at a common/rare/epic artisan.
So that means armies of old-system epic assets will mostly turn into white/common artisans, unless the chance of an “epic” drop is much, much higher than it typically is in your packs.
It will take 10 purple-people or 40 purple tools to get a *chance* at a non-common new-system artisan, but mostly that cost will get you white/common artisans.
With the exception of Alchemy, I have exactly 1 purple-person per profession, and 3 purple-tools per profession – Forgehammer makes the 4th – plus the MW II tools. So this scheme leaves me screwed in terms of getting back to “ground zero” in the new system.
It would be much preferable if the asset exchange involved *no RNG*, but instead allowed an exchange of 4 purple-people-assets for one purple artisan. Or, if you want to say that the new artisans are more valuable than the 4 people and/or 4 tools that you might put on an old-system task, then make it 5:1 or 6:1 – certainly not 10:1 or 40:1, and not for just “a chance.”
But also – from what I outlined in another post, it doesn’t seem that the new artisans and tools are more valuable than the old-system combinations. Even when they’re BiS, they lead to a lower chance of success.
Thank you for the report about the purple artisan exchange rate, we'll look into this. In regards to the discrepancy between tools and artisans, they were not identical in their chance in packs, but in reality the difference in their prices is based more around their current auction house value than their original drop rates.
In regards to the artisan recruitment purchase—artisans in the new system are wildly different than artisans in the old system. The difference between an epic and common artisan is not nearly as steep, with the rarity representing maximum potential, but not distribution. You can easily find common artisans with a higher stat in one area than an epic artisan.
Additionally, artisans now have levels, something that the old system did not, and artisan recruitment grants an artisan at your current level. We do offer additional free artisans to those who have unlocked any extra slots in the existing professions system. That includes guaranteed rare and epic artisans for those with higher slots unlocked.
Artisan recruitment at the exchange is already a significant discount from the zen market purchase, and in terms of the number of artisans you need, it has gone down significantly. If we were to offer gua With general applications, you should receive plenty of artisans as you continue to play.
Ok specifically related to:
Old people-assets give, in “Asset Exchange Credit”: White: 1 Green: 2,000 Blue: 8,000 Purple: 20,000
I saw this in the new PREVIEW build, but noted my HERO's have a value of 80,000! Mean while Adventurers award at 40,000 asset credit each and I didn't check the Leadership Green Professionals! So I reported some wild variations here:
So while it's true (most) award Rare Professionals 8,000 and Epic at 20,000. Why not maintain the 10,000 for Rare and 20,000 for Epic for all Professionals similar to the ratio given in Leadership above?
I admit my next thought was similar to the person above, wondering if there is a slightly higher chance at Rare or Epic Artisan's, from packs purchased with Asset Credit? From my experience opening about 50-100 of the Professional Artisan Recruitment you're likely see about 87.5% Common, 10% Rare, 2.5% Epic -- and while that's not a statistical analysis it seems very close to about that. So spending 200,000 Credit unless you have a lot of Leadership Professionals the vast majority of players will be lucky to purchase at most 1 maybe 2 if there lucky! Given a 87.5% chance at common it be nice to offer a special pack just purchased with Asset Credit Asset Credit Artisan Pack that perhaps is bound to Character that at least doubles, the drop rate by 2x to perhaps 75% Common, 20% Rare, and 5% Epic as an example! Unless of course there re-evaluating the drop rate from the Professional Artisan Recruitment packs?
Though I was glad to see the Retainer however at least guarantee 2x Common, 3x Rare, 3x Epic Artisan via the Retainer based on the Professional slots you had previously unlocked. Though I noticed 1 Epic Artisan couldn't be purchased I'm pretty sure it was for obtaining the Tier 3 result in one profession despite I had unlocked all 9 slots--so I definately had completed that!
Will they be fixing this the 3rd Epic Artisan from Retainer so you can indeed claim them?
I'm fine with Mithral tools providing 5,000 credit as is even if they are slightly less than Professionals--except I think as denoted above Rare Professionals should be given 10,000 to the Epic's 20,000 the same as the ratio for Leadership.
My only concern however is 200,000 credit for a Professional Artisan Recruitment pack given most epic's only give 20,000 that giving up 10x Epic's for a very good chance at Common! So unless the drop rates are slightly improved, then the price of the 200,000 pack should be reduced to at least 150,000?
But I guess deciding to reduce the credit for the pack, will depend upon if Leadership Voucher Credit is an error?
Guess we'll have to wait to see how this progresses!
Post edited by strathkin on
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zephyriahMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,980Arc User
For an ordinary player, the chance of making improved tools is zero. An attempt to perform adamantine tools in the hope of obtaining the +1 version only leads to the loss of gold. Chance to +1 from 3-25% focus Performed 60 Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer.. Result: 0 products +1. Again, you punish players who have the least. Chance should be increased. Remove this HAMSTER RNG This HAMSTER hammer gives only +20 focus. We will not earn millions of ad on him ... Such an attempt would last on live serwer six days or would cost 240k AD. Is this really okay?
I don't know how much it will affect the numbers, and I don't have a character adequate to check. I know if I was trying for a +1 tool, I would be teying to use +1 ingredients. I would craft/acquire all the ingredients before attempting the tool.
That may make up the difference you are looking for in focus, but I don't know. I know that will be difficult to check on the preview unless someone managed to get a jack of all trades crafter past the level 25 in one skill bug.
@asterdhal I put my Workshop to R4 (nice AD sink by the way, getting 5M credits with 2-3k for one item is quite hardcore otherwise), and I fell underwhelmed by the visual changes. With such an investment, I only got a red carpet and a painting on a corner. That's nice, but close to nothing! Look at the upstairs, the walls are rusty, it's a big mess.
=> Will we have some opportunities to decorate further our workshop? While not everyone will do that, I believe that could be some easy sink for something. Could we craft some fireplace the same way we craft the stronghold ones? New shelves, new tables, chairs and stuff. Would be great. I almost won't do professions, just will finish MW5, as I don't find anything interesting to craft. But nonetheless I would spend a bit to personalize my workhop over time.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@asterdahl i still not see anything addressing my epic artisan from live to get exchanged for mod 15 artisans, you wont be making me buy artisan all over again thats for sure spend alot of ad buy tons of profession pack on the past to find out they are becoming currency for tool and ingredients wtf.
Also after i finish my quest when picking my retailer i go talk to him and finish talk to him game locked me on a cinematic frame , and i only could move with my Shift key movement.
For an ordinary player, the chance of making improved tools is zero. An attempt to perform adamantine tools in the hope of obtaining the +1 version only leads to the loss of gold. Chance to +1 from 3-25% focus Performed 60 Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer.. Result: 0 products +1. Again, you punish players who have the least. Chance should be increased. Remove this HAMSTER RNG This HAMSTER hammer gives only +20 focus. We will not earn millions of ad on him ... Such an attempt would last on live serwer six days or would cost 240k AD. Is this really okay?
It does seem they reduced the Focus chance in this build. You now need at least 700/901 focus to even earn a 3% chance at High Quality. To do that you'll want at least an Artisan with +340 Focus and at least an Adamantine Tool at minimum! I also notice each High Quality Material you use further increases it by about another 3%.
Also if you have the Well Worn Tool from Mastercraft I that will increase it another 5%. That's before you add any supplements. Also realize some Artisan's can have a far higher Focus, than they have Proficiency, though most have a Higher Proficiency than Focus. As long as you have at least +340 Focus with Adamantine Tool you'll be OK.
Now realize you'll like need to craft 1428-2000 just to pay for the Workshop 4 upgrade, and that's after you've upgraded to Workshop 3 upgrade which is only 500,000 credits to repay not 5,000,000. So you'll have several chances to create Adamantine Tools +1.
It seems they have reduced the chance of High Quality Gear or Items in this build, which was something I hadn't quite looked into or investigated yet...
While this can be increased further using a High Quality Adamantine Tool, as of this build everyone will need to explore replacing common materials with Adamantine Ingot's +1, Oak Lumber +1, Shimmerweave Cloth +1, Horn Glue +1 as each can improve the chance by 3% for each one used! So it still might be possible to obtain a 25-40% High quality chance.
But getting it over 25% will require mostly High Quality Tools, High Quality Materials, and also Supplements if you want to have the highest chances! Realize if you use the Supplements, they can give +10 Focus or +22 Focus, and those are from normal professions, not including perhaps those from Mastercraft.
It will also cause many to explore Mastercraft, cause a Well-Worn Grinding Wheel, Mailler's Lathe, Picatrix, or Strikers Sledge as examples give: +370 Proficiency & +370 Focus. Not to mention the Mastercraft II Epic Tools provide +400 Proficiency & +375 Focus, and at Mastercraft IV you can even earn several of them over time.
Whereas a Adamantine Cross-pein Hammer or others provide: +360 Proficiency & +360 Focus, though I think a High Quality Hammer +1 may provide something similar to the single Well-Worn one from Mastercraft I at least.
Still some artisan's also have +350 Focus, or even +360 Focus if you care less about Proficiency and more about Focus but each is a plus & minus proposition you need to weigh. So being higher in one will mean there only likely lower in the other!
So it seems were at least now finally closer to what we might expect for LIVE - just surprised it never made patch notes! Cause the biggest change is you just really have to consider High Quality Materials if you want High Quality Gear!
My Epic Artisan Tia Ingelri +400 Proficiency & +330 Focus with Adamantine Tool +360 focus gives 690 so doesn't break 700/901 so remains at 0% chance. If I use my Well Worn Striker's Sledge from Mastercraft I he then only get's a 3% chance cause he tops 700/901 Focus. If I use a High Quality Material in place of a standard materials I can possibly extend the chance out by 3% x 6 materials another 18% before any supplement slotted.
My Common Artisan Trodinn Deepstone +380 Proficiency & +340 Focus with Adamantine Tool +360 gives 700/901 so obtains a 3% chance. If I switch to my Well Worn Striker's Sledge from Mastercraft I he then obtains a 8% chance with 710/901 focus. Now if I extend him all High Quality Materials that may also grow by 18% chance before any supplement as they can earn +10, +22 to proficiency or focus!
A good reason DEVs may want a BLOG talking about High Quality features & crafting - perhaps players filling that role though?
I've spoken about a few other things here but it was mostly focused on bugs/issues and hadn't yet fully explored High Quality Tools in this most recently build yet... Now I need to spend more time reviewing the notes or issues around that in more detail.
So thank you @mushellka for drawing people's attention to this. Still a keen observation by the cat even if you learned a lot in the process - as it is constantly changing week by week.
Hello I have some ideas to suggest. 1) They would be interesting in recipes where it would be very nice to be able to create a frame like Kwalish / Gond or a mechanical mount. 1A) Being able to craft a legendary mount? Even employing us several months or years. 2) Create an elixir that can increase the level of a mount up to the legendary? 3) To be able to modify or add a bonus of a mount? 4) Change appearance for pets? Transmutation? Too many equal companions.
" Old people-assets give, in “Asset Exchange Credit”: White: 1 Green: 2,000 Blue: 8,000 Purple: 20,000 "
On some of my crafters, I spend days and days for very little gain (a few craft XP), making 4 tier 1s, combining them into a tier 2, repeat 3 more times, combine them into a tier 3, repeat the whole process 3 or 6 or 9 times... it was a pretty significant undertaking even though I didn't 'pay' for those higher whites.
A tier 3 white can undertake significantly higher tasks than a tier 1 white. Giving 1 point for 'any white' seems a bit ridiculous.
would make a lot more sense and reduce a little of the burn factor Cryptic is creating by, in effect, saying "All that time, effort and Zen you spent on crafting over the years? Yeah, we're just wiping that out and replacing it with 1/10th of your current functionality. But fear not! By spending a lot of time, effort, and most especially Zen over the next few years, you can replace all your lost functionality in time for us to wipe it out on the next rewrite!"
master crafting materials are accepting normal, but not +1 goods. which is a pain as have loads of +1 goods but no normal goods for the lv2 master crafting 2nd stage in alchemy, blacksmithing, leather working, tailoring. ATM it can be hard to not make +1 goods once you've made a few.
@asterdahl Thanks for fixing the tutorial problem and the full delivery box problem. Now, when can we expect to see the guild crates' recipes on Preview? I'm starting to feel like you guys are intentionally leaving this stuff out to give us less time to give any usable feedback on it. I mean, IF you get them up in this next build on Friday, that leaves only two weeks for us to have a look and try them out. I haven't even gotten my workshop to level 3 on Preview because I have to hire 10 artisans and neither the exchange nor the playtest recruitment are working for me. So I'm stuck waiting for artisans to apply....
"I still don’t see what’s going to happen to elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements."
They have yet to finish adding all the recipes into the new professions. This includes the enforcement kits which will most likely require the same inputs as before including Unified Elements, Dragon Eggs, AD Cost etc. They DO know that the kits are not there and they will be forthcoming.
Those elemental resources are used in more than just the armor kits. For example, they’re used in the MW V potions in the current system, but they’ve been removed-and-replaced in the preview system as it currently stands.
More importantly, they were used extensively in the items needed to complete the MW I quests, which is what gave them an AH market value. I don’t currently see in the preview system any of the “gemmed” or “superior” or “elemental” items used in those quests, nor can I see what they might be replaced with, so I still don’t know what the value of those elemental resources is going to be.
So I was hoping for an answer from the devs….
Maybe its just me but I thought they were doing away with the elemental stuff since they were removing leadership that generated the elemental coffer that rewarded them (remember that leadership is now gathering). And yes they have not put out any information as to what will happen to the those kits and what professions will be able to generate them... still eagerly awaiting the full list of recipes and tasks for this new system...
For an ordinary player, the chance of making improved tools is zero. An attempt to perform adamantine tools in the hope of obtaining the +1 version only leads to the loss of gold. Chance to +1 from 3-25% focus Performed 60 Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer.. Result: 0 products +1. Again, you punish players who have the least. Chance should be increased. Remove this HAMSTER RNG This HAMSTER hammer gives only +20 focus. We will not earn millions of ad on him ... Such an attempt would last on live serwer six days or would cost 240k AD. Is this really okay?
Not true... If you just use fully levelled 70 artisan's even if Common quality and give that at least a Steel Tool, your chance is isn't a guarantee but it's quite reasonable, now it may take you 4-9 attempts, or even if you create a normal Admanatine Tool, you can then slot it to try again to make a Adamantine +1 tool.
Now realize you'll like need to craft 1428-2000 just to pay for the Workshop 4 upgrade, and that's after you've upgraded to Workshop 3 upgrade which is only 500,000 credits to repay not 5,000,000.
I think even with a Common Artisan at Level 70 and even a Steel tool you chance is likely about 18-24% because I'm guessing since I don't have Steel tools only Adamantine. With a 70 Common Artisan with 340 Focus & Adamantine Tool the Focus Chance is 38%; so depending on your Common 70 level Artisan & Steel tool 20-27% is likely very probable.
Yet realize different Common Artisan range in the Proficiency & Focus attributes that's why I said between 18-24% chance. Cause while a Steel &/or Steel +1 provide the same Proficiency & Focus as do all Adamantine & Adamantine +1 tools the Artisans themselves can vary slightly.
And if your worried buy a few Mithral tools on AH now before MOD 15 so you have at least 1 of each Admantine Tool to make others down the road...
Realize you'll likely need to craft 1428-2000 Adamantine Tools just to pay for the Work 4 upgrade once you've gotten past Workshop 3, so you'll like have several +1 left over by the time that is done?
Maybe you did not notice, but I have the Admanatine tool The workshop is upgraded to level 4. Artisan blue level 70 (the only one I have) If I did not use Adept's Electuary +1, the chance of getting a tool +1 in this process would be 0%. Exactly for the same reason, I can not create Adamentine Ingot +1 That's what I want to show: the average player will get random artisans. Some of them are bad, and some are hopeless, just like mine: RNG additionally takes away the opportunity to improve the result. I have a 25% chance of getting a +1 product. However, after 60 attempts failed to AN ANY TIME.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
Just noticed that the Begum's South Sea Trading Company Exchange to upgrade your workshop changes the items they are looking for. I had sent my gatherers to get the materials for items listed yesterday. I made the items this morning, then saw they are no longer on the exchange. How often do they change the items on the exchange? Given that we have to gather resources for the upgrade, it would be good to know what to expect so we gather the proper resources. This is going to be a big brick wall for casual players who want to craft but do not take the time to understand the mechanics.
I understand that rare and epic artisans are not always better than normal ones. I think the stats still are too low for them. If I am going to have some epic artisans charge me 3 times commission rates (200% increase) then I would hope their stats would be significantly better. Roughly 10% better than common artisans is not that great IMHO. Rare Artisans at 20% better and Epic up to 40% better stats seems more in line given they like to be paid so much more and for Masterwork Recipes, these increased stats seem to be needed.
Very frustrating that my main crafting character never got the forgehammer of gond. I ended up getting one last Christmas on another character and it was bind to character rather than bind to account. The forgehammer is pretty much required if you want to do masterwork crafting .
@onodrain The SSTC commissions change daily. It was mentioned earlier in this thread, though considering that this is the 32nd page it would be easy to miss.
All workshop levels only allow for a maximum of 32 workers.
During the level up history there is a moment they say that the delivery box and the number of workers increases with every new workshop level, unfortunately right now only the delivery box increases in number, so we are limited to only 32 workers.
> However, after 60 attempts failed to AN ANY TIME.
60 failures on a 25% chance. Sounds like something is wrong with the high-quality system.
In total, it took me more attempts. Finally, I made Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer +1, using the advice to increase the odds through +1 items. I got a 37% chance and after 7 attempts I made the desired + 1 tool.
For live it would take me a few weeks and it would cost over 400 gold. (Including the cost of producing ingredients and supplements) I do not know if it really encourages players to use the new profession system. I'm rather discouraged, I hate RNG and I consider it to be the most HAMSTER thing in the game.
Regardless of everything, I think that artisans have fatal stats in most cases.The commission devours us gold at the speed of light, which in turn will force us to abandon professions in a short time.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
get a Admanatine Tool, from the asset currency from selling the old tools and you've fair chance of getting a +1 one for most my test ones it was 3-9th after maxing artisan and I've done 3+ sets of professions due to the delivery box problem
DEVs, read this, IT is nightmare processing from old format to new and now it is too costly, i knew Mod 15 would be the disaster and worst ever of all time, and may become the most hated and abandoned content because it is costing too much, no benifit to any players, you devs are suppose to provide entertainments but not nerfing and taking things from players, we are fed up with bad RNG and high rate of failings.
let me ask you, is this suppose to be Role Play Game but it feel like that you are turning into casino? honestly?
i prefer older format because it doesnt cost players, so this newer "workshop" is awful and unfavorable that will sink us.
Comments
The time, effort, and whatever expenses involved in getting greens, turning them into blues, and turning blues into purples warrants a greater than 4X redemption value over the next lower rarity.
It is best to reply to a post, but could you only reply that you read posts?
It is three weeks until the release, and I am worried that the similar posts will be repeatedly if there is no reply at all.
Additionally confirmed defects
In tailoring:
Shimmerweave Thread +1 is not exist or cannot referable.
In jewelcrafting:
Rubellite, Scintillant, Silverspruce and Sphene Ring +1's item level is low (+0 is 560, +1 is 540).
There is no doubt that the success rate matters, but I imagine a lot of people would trade some of their chance at success to increase their chances of getting a higher-quality item, to pay less for the job to begin with, or to bring any of the various special abilities into play.
I'll grant that for the high-end jobs speed probably doesn't matter as much because that is where most people will likely be spending most of their morale, but all of those other things do, even if not for you.
And there isn't really any speculating going on. Asterdahl was just here and said as much. I won't pretend to know how much weight they give the different things, never said I did, but they all have weight.
But if you only value proficiency then I guess you wouldn't think that anything could possibly balance artisans with different proficiency numbers. I made an error. I already admitted to that error when it was pointed out earlier. I took level upgrades for common workers and mixed it all up in my brain with the quality upgrades for uncommon and rare workers.
You know... Not trying to be snippy or anything, but this reminds me of someone that points out a typo and thinks that that it negates the substance of whatever the person said.
Green workers and tools should not be worth 1/4 of blue workers or tools and blue workers and tools should not be worth 1/4 of purple workers or tools because the time spent upgrading workers and tools and the expense and effort of getting them should be worth something.
But looking at the market right now, purple laborers are undervalued in every skill that I checked.
The prices in weaponsmithing, for example, are, for the low prices, around 4K/9K/24K for green/blue/purple (just looking at the current low prices).
Looking at needles, though, they are following a more sensible pattern with blues worth a little over 4X greens and purples worth a little over 4X blues.
So if they used the market to help then figure redemption prices, as Asterdahl said, this would explain things.
Laborers are disproportionately valuable at the lower rarity levels and tools are more valuable in proportion at the higher levels.
An attempt to perform adamantine tools in the hope of obtaining the +1 version only leads to the loss of gold.
Chance to +1 from 3-25% focus
Performed 60 Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer.. Result: 0 products +1.
Again, you punish players who have the least.
Chance should be increased. Remove this HAMSTER RNG
This HAMSTER hammer gives only +20 focus. We will not earn millions of ad on him ...
Such an attempt would last on live serwer six days or would cost 240k AD.
Is this really okay?
Old people-assets give, in “Asset Exchange Credit”:
White: 1
Green: 2,000
Blue: 8,000
Purple: 20,000
I saw this in the new PREVIEW build, but noted my HERO's have a value of 80,000! Mean while Adventurers award at 40,000 asset credit each and I didn't check the Leadership Green Professionals! So I reported some wild variations here:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/5-new-professions-issues-since-1008a-2
So while it's true (most) award Rare Professionals 8,000 and Epic at 20,000. Why not maintain the 10,000 for Rare and 20,000 for Epic for all Professionals similar to the ratio given in Leadership above?
I admit my next thought was similar to the person above, wondering if there is a slightly higher chance at Rare or Epic Artisan's, from packs purchased with Asset Credit? From my experience opening about 50-100 of the Professional Artisan Recruitment you're likely see about 87.5% Common, 10% Rare, 2.5% Epic -- and while that's not a statistical analysis it seems very close to about that. So spending 200,000 Credit unless you have a lot of Leadership Professionals the vast majority of players will be lucky to purchase at most 1 maybe 2 if there lucky! Given a 87.5% chance at common it be nice to offer a special pack just purchased with Asset Credit Asset Credit Artisan Pack that perhaps is bound to Character that at least doubles, the drop rate by 2x to perhaps 75% Common, 20% Rare, and 5% Epic as an example! Unless of course there re-evaluating the drop rate from the Professional Artisan Recruitment packs?
Though I was glad to see the Retainer however at least guarantee 2x Common, 3x Rare, 3x Epic Artisan via the Retainer based on the Professional slots you had previously unlocked. Though I noticed 1 Epic Artisan couldn't be purchased I'm pretty sure it was for obtaining the Tier 3 result in one profession despite I had unlocked all 9 slots--so I definately had completed that!
Will they be fixing this the 3rd Epic Artisan from Retainer so you can indeed claim them?
I'm fine with Mithral tools providing 5,000 credit as is even if they are slightly less than Professionals--except I think as denoted above Rare Professionals should be given 10,000 to the Epic's 20,000 the same as the ratio for Leadership.
My only concern however is 200,000 credit for a Professional Artisan Recruitment pack given most epic's only give 20,000 that giving up 10x Epic's for a very good chance at Common! So unless the drop rates are slightly improved, then the price of the 200,000 pack should be reduced to at least 150,000?
But I guess deciding to reduce the credit for the pack, will depend upon if Leadership Voucher Credit is an error?
Guess we'll have to wait to see how this progresses!
That may make up the difference you are looking for in focus, but I don't know. I know that will be difficult to check on the preview unless someone managed to get a jack of all trades crafter past the level 25 in one skill bug.
I put my Workshop to R4 (nice AD sink by the way, getting 5M credits with 2-3k for one item is quite hardcore otherwise), and I fell underwhelmed by the visual changes.
With such an investment, I only got a red carpet and a painting on a corner. That's nice, but close to nothing! Look at the upstairs, the walls are rusty, it's a big mess.
=> Will we have some opportunities to decorate further our workshop? While not everyone will do that, I believe that could be some easy sink for something. Could we craft some fireplace the same way we craft the stronghold ones? New shelves, new tables, chairs and stuff. Would be great. I almost won't do professions, just will finish MW5, as I don't find anything interesting to craft. But nonetheless I would spend a bit to personalize my workhop over time.
Also after i finish my quest when picking my retailer i go talk to him and finish talk to him game locked me on a cinematic frame , and i only could move with my Shift key movement.
Also if you have the Well Worn Tool from Mastercraft I that will increase it another 5%. That's before you add any supplements. Also realize some Artisan's can have a far higher Focus, than they have Proficiency, though most have a Higher Proficiency than Focus. As long as you have at least +340 Focus with Adamantine Tool you'll be OK.
Now realize you'll like need to craft 1428-2000 just to pay for the Workshop 4 upgrade, and that's after you've upgraded to Workshop 3 upgrade which is only 500,000 credits to repay not 5,000,000. So you'll have several chances to create Adamantine Tools +1.
It seems they have reduced the chance of High Quality Gear or Items in this build, which was something I hadn't quite looked into or investigated yet...
While this can be increased further using a High Quality Adamantine Tool, as of this build everyone will need to explore replacing common materials with Adamantine Ingot's +1, Oak Lumber +1, Shimmerweave Cloth +1, Horn Glue +1 as each can improve the chance by 3% for each one used! So it still might be possible to obtain a 25-40% High quality chance.
But getting it over 25% will require mostly High Quality Tools, High Quality Materials, and also Supplements if you want to have the highest chances! Realize if you use the Supplements, they can give +10 Focus or +22 Focus, and those are from normal professions, not including perhaps those from Mastercraft.
It will also cause many to explore Mastercraft, cause a Well-Worn Grinding Wheel, Mailler's Lathe, Picatrix, or Strikers Sledge as examples give: +370 Proficiency & +370 Focus. Not to mention the Mastercraft II Epic Tools provide +400 Proficiency & +375 Focus, and at Mastercraft IV you can even earn several of them over time.
Whereas a Adamantine Cross-pein Hammer or others provide: +360 Proficiency & +360 Focus, though I think a High Quality Hammer +1 may provide something similar to the single Well-Worn one from Mastercraft I at least.
Still some artisan's also have +350 Focus, or even +360 Focus if you care less about Proficiency and more about Focus but each is a plus & minus proposition you need to weigh. So being higher in one will mean there only likely lower in the other!
So it seems were at least now finally closer to what we might expect for LIVE - just surprised it never made patch notes! Cause the biggest change is you just really have to consider High Quality Materials if you want High Quality Gear!
My Epic Artisan Tia Ingelri +400 Proficiency & +330 Focus with Adamantine Tool +360 focus gives 690 so doesn't break 700/901 so remains at 0% chance. If I use my Well Worn Striker's Sledge from Mastercraft I he then only get's a 3% chance cause he tops 700/901 Focus. If I use a High Quality Material in place of a standard materials I can possibly extend the chance out by 3% x 6 materials another 18% before any supplement slotted.
My Common Artisan Trodinn Deepstone +380 Proficiency & +340 Focus with Adamantine Tool +360 gives 700/901 so obtains a 3% chance. If I switch to my Well Worn Striker's Sledge from Mastercraft I he then obtains a 8% chance with 710/901 focus. Now if I extend him all High Quality Materials that may also grow by 18% chance before any supplement as they can earn +10, +22 to proficiency or focus!
A good reason DEVs may want a BLOG talking about High Quality features & crafting - perhaps players filling that role though?
I've spoken about a few other things here but it was mostly focused on bugs/issues and hadn't yet fully explored High Quality Tools in this most recently build yet... Now I need to spend more time reviewing the notes or issues around that in more detail.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/5-new-professions-issues-since-1008a-2
So thank you @mushellka for drawing people's attention to this. Still a keen observation by the cat even if you learned a lot in the process - as it is constantly changing week by week.
I have some ideas to suggest.
1) They would be interesting in recipes where it would be very nice to be able to create a frame like Kwalish / Gond or a mechanical mount.
1A) Being able to craft a legendary mount? Even employing us several months or years.
2) Create an elixir that can increase the level of a mount up to the legendary?
3) To be able to modify or add a bonus of a mount?
4) Change appearance for pets? Transmutation? Too many equal companions.
"
Old people-assets give, in “Asset Exchange Credit”:
White: 1
Green: 2,000
Blue: 8,000
Purple: 20,000
"
On some of my crafters, I spend days and days for very little gain (a few craft XP), making 4 tier 1s, combining them into a tier 2, repeat 3 more times, combine them into a tier 3, repeat the whole process 3 or 6 or 9 times... it was a pretty significant undertaking even though I didn't 'pay' for those higher whites.
A tier 3 white can undertake significantly higher tasks than a tier 1 white. Giving 1 point for 'any white' seems a bit ridiculous.
Tier 1: 1 point
Tier 2: 5 points
Tier 3: 20 points
would make a lot more sense and reduce a little of the burn factor Cryptic is creating by, in effect, saying "All that time, effort and Zen you spent on crafting over the years? Yeah, we're just wiping that out and replacing it with 1/10th of your current functionality. But fear not! By spending a lot of time, effort, and most especially Zen over the next few years, you can replace all your lost functionality in time for us to wipe it out on the next rewrite!"
The workshop is upgraded to level 4.
Artisan blue level 70 (the only one I have)
If I did not use Adept's Electuary +1, the chance of getting a tool +1 in this process would be 0%.
Exactly for the same reason, I can not create Adamentine Ingot +1
That's what I want to show: the average player will get random artisans.
Some of them are bad, and some are hopeless, just like mine:
RNG additionally takes away the opportunity to improve the result.
I have a 25% chance of getting a +1 product. However, after 60 attempts failed to AN ANY TIME.
I understand that rare and epic artisans are not always better than normal ones. I think the stats still are too low for them.
If I am going to have some epic artisans charge me 3 times commission rates (200% increase) then I would hope their stats would be significantly better. Roughly 10% better than common artisans is not that great IMHO. Rare Artisans at 20% better and Epic up to 40% better stats seems more in line given they like to be paid so much more and for Masterwork Recipes, these increased stats seem to be needed.
Very frustrating that my main crafting character never got the forgehammer of gond. I ended up getting one last Christmas on another character and it was bind to character rather than bind to account. The forgehammer is pretty much required if you want to do masterwork crafting .
60 failures on a 25% chance. Sounds like something is wrong with the high-quality system.
During the level up history there is a moment they say that the delivery box and the number of workers increases with every new workshop level, unfortunately right now only the delivery box increases in number, so we are limited to only 32 workers.
Finally, I made Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer +1, using the advice to increase the odds through +1 items. I got a 37% chance and after 7 attempts I made the desired + 1 tool.
For live it would take me a few weeks and it would cost over 400 gold. (Including the cost of producing ingredients and supplements)
I do not know if it really encourages players to use the new profession system.
I'm rather discouraged, I hate RNG and I consider it to be the most HAMSTER thing in the game.
Regardless of everything, I think that artisans have fatal stats in most cases.The commission devours us gold at the speed of light, which in turn will force us to abandon professions in a short time.
let me ask you, is this suppose to be Role Play Game but it feel like that you are turning into casino? honestly?
i prefer older format because it doesnt cost players, so this newer "workshop" is awful and unfavorable that will sink us.