OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD: Professions Overhaul

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  • vortex74
    vortex74 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I tried several times to use an empty profession slots copy of my main character from the live server. I choose different starting professions and different Tutorial Quest NPCs. The quest stops at the point getting gathered resources from the delivery box.

    i choose another character from my rooster cleaned the profession slots on live server and with him i could end the the tutorial quest with success.
  • mazeppa79#6238
    mazeppa79#6238 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    I would make the Workshop accessible through the Travel Map.
  • lowjohn
    lowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    Good point - must be a timer of some sort. I have successfully logged back into the Workshop after a short departure, but not after overnight. So - devs - just dispense with the timer.

    Yeah no. Keeping instances that don't have players in them open forever is an extremely bad idea.

    Having a flag for the workshop so that if you logged out there and the instance is now gone, create an instance when you log in, MIGHT work.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User


    The box is "full" of what the other character had delivered.

    For clarity I was never saying that one character could start delivery missions and some other character pick those items up, but that the box seems to be remembering that some other character on the account has a full delivery box and when that happens then no other character can take deliveries at that time.

    Possibly happening, but not what I meant.

    When you transfer a character, the completion status of their crafting tasks is remembered. So if you had tasks under way from the "live" system their products are transferred to the collection box in the "new" system. This is what happened with my first character transferred.

    Now, however the tutorial hangs because the collection box is full (of those hold overs from the "live" system) and so you cannot progress through the tutorial. This would be very bad to take live.
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  • nunya#5309
    nunya#5309 Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    lowjohn said:

    Good point - must be a timer of some sort. I have successfully logged back into the Workshop after a short departure, but not after overnight. So - devs - just dispense with the timer.

    Yeah no. Keeping instances that don't have players in them open forever is an extremely bad idea.

    Having a flag for the workshop so that if you logged out there and the instance is now gone, create an instance when you log in, MIGHT work.
    That might be nice for the workshop. If they did that, it would probably automatically apply to similar zones, such as the SH. For me, the problem would be that I like that my SH deinstances and returns me to the previous zone. This is because it takes longer to load the SH than it does, say, the Grand Emporium and because I don't always want to be in my SH when I log in.

    DISCLAIMER: I recognize this is a personal problem and the devs should not pay any attention to it when deciding whether to implement something like what you suggest.
  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    edited October 2018


    The box is "full" of what the other character had delivered.

    For clarity I was never saying that one character could start delivery missions and some other character pick those items up, but that the box seems to be remembering that some other character on the account has a full delivery box and when that happens then no other character can take deliveries at that time.

    Possibly happening, but not what I meant.

    When you transfer a character, the completion status of their crafting tasks is remembered. So if you had tasks under way from the "live" system their products are transferred to the collection box in the "new" system. This is what happened with my first character transferred.

    Now, however the tutorial hangs because the collection box is full (of those hold overs from the "live" system) and so you cannot progress through the tutorial. This would be very bad to take live.
    Yeah, I got it now.

    It was that my character had missions running on live when I transferred him over.

    It was ultimately only part of the problem, though, as they also had two skills maxed (armor and weaponsmithing) and so their gathering was maxed in the new system and so they couldn't advance the tutorial beyond the gathering step even when they could get things from the box.
    vortex74 said:

    I tried several times to use an empty profession slots copy of my main character from the live server. I choose different starting professions and different Tutorial Quest NPCs. The quest stops at the point getting gathered resources from the delivery box.

    i choose another character from my rooster cleaned the profession slots on live server and with him i could end the the tutorial quest with success.

    See above.

    This was holding me up, too, but at this time I would guess that the character that you chose has a maxed out gathering skill which will happen because they have some skill on live at rank 25 right now.

    You have to use a character that does not have a rank 25 skill. It's the gathering skill that is the issue, but since gathering will be maxed out if your character has any skill at rank 25 on live...


  • vortex74
    vortex74 Member Posts: 5 Arc User


    The box is "full" of what the other character had delivered.

    For clarity I was never saying that one character could start delivery missions and some other character pick those items up, but that the box seems to be remembering that some other character on the account has a full delivery box and when that happens then no other character can take deliveries at that time.

    Possibly happening, but not what I meant.

    When you transfer a character, the completion status of their crafting tasks is remembered. So if you had tasks under way from the "live" system their products are transferred to the collection box in the "new" system. This is what happened with my first character transferred.

    Now, however the tutorial hangs because the collection box is full (of those hold overs from the "live" system) and so you cannot progress through the tutorial. This would be very bad to take live.
    Yeah, I got it now.

    It was that my character had missions running on live when I transferred him over.

    It was ultimately only part of the problem, though, as they also had two skills maxed (armor and weaponsmithing) and so their gathering was maxed in the new system and so they couldn't advance the tutorial beyond the gathering step even when they could get things from the box.
    vortex74 said:

    I tried several times to use an empty profession slots copy of my main character from the live server. I choose different starting professions and different Tutorial Quest NPCs. The quest stops at the point getting gathered resources from the delivery box.

    i choose another character from my rooster cleaned the profession slots on live server and with him i could end the the tutorial quest with success.

    See above.

    This was holding me up, too, but at this time I would guess that the character that you chose has a maxed out gathering skill which will happen because they have some skill on live at rank 25 right now.

    You have to use a character that does not have a rank 25 skill. It's the gathering skill that is the issue, but since gathering will be maxed out if your character has any skill at rank 25 on live...


    Thank you :)

    the second character i choose hasn't the leadership/gathering skill maxed out so i am able to test the workshop with him.

    i'm looking forward to the 6th November if my main character is able to start his workshop career or what bugs are waiting for him.
  • zephyriah
    zephyriah Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,980 Arc User

    zephyriah said:

    krailov said:

    I suspect a lot of us will spend a lot of time in the workshop

    I don't know about that, I certainly don't plan on it. Once out of the tutorial, the main reason to return is to change gathering tasks or restart them if you let the chest get full. Or perhaps, to reset morale if needed.
    Agreed! I'm hoping to very rarely see the inside of the workshop once I get things started.
    I'm thinking once a day to check on new applications and set that days gathering tasks, then do everything else remotely.
  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    Some more feedback on some of the artisans (and this includes adventurers as well) that you can get.

    Compare these two blacksmiths:

    Trodinn Deepstone has +53 proficiency, +47 focus, +0% commission, -50% speed, and the dab hand special, giving him a 5% chance to double the result of his assignment.

    Rinn Giroud, on the other hand, has +53 proficiency, +47 focus, +0% commission, -50% speed, and the dab hand special, giving her a 10% chance to double the result of her assignment.

    They are identical in every way except Rinn Giroud has twice the chance of her bonus activating. This should not happen.

    Compare them to Brynde Oakenhearth and Gront… They both have +47 proficiency, +52 focus, and a 0% speed bonus.

    Where they differ is that Brynde has a 0% commission and a 5% chance of activating her passion project special while Gront has a +25% commission and a 10& chance of activating his passion project special.

    Now, I suspect that Brynde would be better over the long haul in the only way they are different; That the extra 5% activation of passion project that Gront has will not offset the higher commission that he charges over the time that he is used, but at least there is a difference. Someone might be happy to gamble on Gront rather than play the "safe bet" that Brynde offers.


    And this connects with my previous feedback about artisans with identical abilities. While it would be better if Trodinn Deepstone's dab hand had the same chance to activate as Rinn Giroud's, it would still not be ideal if a player got these two as their first two contracts even in that case.

    So I would like to see every artisan be unique in some way while also trying to maintain some basic balance (between those of the same quality, of course), but if this is impossible then I would like to see the starting artisans come in random fixed pairs that ensure that the player get two that are different at the start.

    =============

    Second thing, and this may seem like a terribly minor thing to some, but I would like to know more about my would-be retainers.

    I get what I get from the sentence or three that they say (and I recently made another toon for the sole purpose of seeing how each reacts/responds to characters of both genders), but that doesn't tell me who they are.

    I'm not looking for a deep back-and-forth conversation where I can ask question after question and try to pursue some magic combination of questions and responses to unlock their deepest secrets. I would be happy with a "more information" option when I speak to them that just tells me more about who they are.
    Is this one a distant noble with no chance to claim the family's wealth? That one a retired adventurer? The other a failed businessman looking for a chance at redemption? Where are they from?

    I just want to know from a personal RP perspective if nothing else, and I would like to know up front. Finding out after I have made my one time, no going back decision is not much good to me.

    =============

    Finally (for now), how about some other races thrown into the retainer mix? Are no dwarves or elves interested in working as a retainer? They are certainly willing to work as artisans and adventurers.
    I understand that the shop could get crowded if there were six potential retainers of every race standing about, but I think that at least one dwarf, one elf, one halfling, and one half-orc (two males and two females amongst those four) would really add some needed variety.


    Thank you.


  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    zephyriah said:

    krailov said:

    I suspect a lot of us will spend a lot of time in the workshop

    I don't know about that, I certainly don't plan on it. Once out of the tutorial, the main reason to return is to change gathering tasks or restart them if you let the chest get full. Or perhaps, to reset morale if needed.
    If we can invite others into our workshop, I imagine that a lot of people will spend a lot of time in one workshop or another using them as RP zones.

    At least allowing for them to serve as an invocation zone (or just adding a rest area somewhere in the shop) after some amount of upgrade would probably come in handy for some.
  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    Compare these two blacksmiths:

    Trodinn Deepstone has +53 proficiency, +47 focus, +0% commission, -50% speed, and the dab hand special, giving him a 5% chance to double the result of his assignment.

    Rinn Giroud, on the other hand, has +53 proficiency, +47 focus, +0% commission, -50% speed, and the dab hand special, giving her a 10% chance to double the result of her assignment.

    They are identical in every way except Rinn Giroud has twice the chance of her bonus activating. This should not happen.


    If I'm not mistaken, that is the difference in quality of artisan, common 5%, uncommon 10%. And yes, it most definitely should happen. Of course, it should also happen with their other abilities as well, not just the special ability.

  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    edited October 2018



    If I'm not mistaken, that is the difference in quality of artisan, common 5%, uncommon 10%. And yes, it most definitely should happen. Of course, it should also happen with their other abilities as well, not just the special ability.

    You are mistaken. Those are both common artisans.

    I do not know how you can have not noticed that many common artisans have a 10% bonus to their special.

    So how do you try to defend that it's okay that one player gets Trodinn Deepstone while another player gets Rinn Giroud to start out?
    That one player has a 5% greater chance of getting a double result than the other one because one of them got the "good contract" and one got the "bad contract" to start?

    Every player should be free to decide what artisan to use, and RNG will play it's part in the new system, but there shouldn't be objectively bad contracts of the same quality.

    Trodinn Deepstone doesn't need 10% Dab Hand; I would like to see them avoid that as I said. But that doesn't mean that he shouldn't get a commission discount, a speed bonus, a proficiency or focus increase, or some combination of those to offset the lesser chance that his special ability will activate.

    Give him something that might make him worth using over Rinn Giroud other than "I am running two blacksmithing jobs and he's my only other choice".
    Post edited by mithrosnomore on
  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    I knew there was something else I wanted to add...


    Main and off-hand items are not previewing properly from the crafting window.

    I have not been able to figure out how to get off-hand items to show at all. Some main-hand weapons I can make show by changing the preview pose to combat stance (or re-clicking combat stance).

    Thanks again.

  • chidion
    chidion Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    One of the changes I still have a major problem with is the "chance of failure" that can apparently be reduced with the proper artisan. what's next? Is the game now going to try to sell some kind of special professions token to negate the chance of failure for professions constructs?

    As I recall about the only thing there was a chance of failure on previously was Alchemy and then you still got some kind of mystery potion for your time, effort and resources (at no cost I might add). Those potions could actually be kind of fun... as opposed to spending time, effort, resources and now currency only to get:

    "sorry your resources and money are gone and you get nothing".

    I mean we already have the "chance of failure" upgrading enchantments, runestones and artifacts, for which a player can of course purchase a coalescent ward to negate that failure.

    Having a RNG prospect of failure now attached to professions on top of everything else, just seems to be a bit of overkill to me...
    but I won't be really upset, unless Neverwinter tries later to market some kind of equivalent to a coalescent ward for professions also.

    I understand the game needs to make money, (which would be much easier if astral diamonds couldn't be converted to Zen) but something like that would be just an example of someone creating a problem, then expecting players to pay in order to correct the problem they created.

    That I don't like at all.
  • empalas
    empalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 799 Arc User
    Tonights patch looks to have fixed the delivery box for both the items you had to collect from the old professions and at max level. Did too chars one that had 9 things and one that had zero and both had 25 leadership and both completed the quest.
  • valwryn
    valwryn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,620 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    The toon that was originally bugged was able to get her old stuff out of the box and then able to do the gathering part. She is still bugged on the next part, quest won't count when taking item out of box. Several of my other toons did complete this quest, so it must be just that one.

    +1 Masterwork items still don't count for quests!!! :s

    The focus seems to be a weeee bit off when it comes to masterwork. My focus is at 38%, yet 4 out of 5 times I create a +1 item. :o
  • wylonus
    wylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    i dont like the odds of failing, why add failures to craftings, it isnt powerful or beat the game, just another very bad and costly "gamble" rng make you throw away your time, coins, and wasted resources.

    still cluttered mess of unfinished steps of items and resources needed to complete a crafted product, plus that commission fees.

    providing a story, or an urban myth.
    One day, an adventurer returning to collect the earning, saw one of "write-off" note about one of crafting went busted and failed costly project, and called shop surpervisor and asked who did this and failed.

    Not too long after discussions, adventurer summon a crafter whom failed a previous project, "Come walk with me, and we talk in backyard"
    "Sir?" there no backdoor"
    "it been hidden for good reason" as the secret door revealed as they step out as other crafters curiously look out from work stations.
    Then crafter look around very afraid, "What are those stack of skulls here" as he saw them lined up.
    "Good, Do better next time! they were all terminated!" as adventurer paused, "do that again, you will be fired"

    after re-enter the workshop, Shop Supervisor ask, "Boss, Was that necessary?" as she saw crafter went pale.
    He replied, "Of course not, skulls are props for Nights of the Masquerade for decoration" as he gave her a wink and wicked smirk.
    Post edited by wylonus on
  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User

    You are mistaken. Those are both common artisans.

    I do not know how you can have not noticed that many common artisans have a 10% bonus to their special.

    You're right. I hadn't noticed because with it being bugged I haven't played much. I must have misread something in these 30 pages that lead me to that conclusion though.

    I checked again tonight and I do have an epic artisan with a 20% chance and a couple of commons with 25% chances, so that special skill is just as random as the others.
  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User



    You're right. I hadn't noticed because with it being bugged I haven't played much. I must have misread something in these 30 pages that lead me to that conclusion though.

    I checked again tonight and I do have an epic artisan with a 20% chance and a couple of commons with 25% chances, so that special skill is just as random as the others.

    I may have come across as too harsh there. Not my intention.

    I just don't think that artisans of the same quality (and level, of course) should be objectively better or worse than each other.
    chidion said:

    One of the changes I still have a major problem with is the "chance of failure" that can apparently be reduced with the proper artisan. what's next? Is the game now going to try to sell some kind of special professions token to negate the chance of failure for professions constructs?

    As I recall about the only thing there was a chance of failure on previously was Alchemy and then you still got some kind of mystery potion for your time, effort and resources (at no cost I might add). Those potions could actually be kind of fun... as opposed to spending time, effort, resources and now currency only to get:

    "sorry your resources and money are gone and you get nothing".



    I mean we already have the "chance of failure" upgrading enchantments, runestones and artifacts, for which a player can of course purchase a coalescent ward to negate that failure.

    Having a RNG prospect of failure now attached to professions on top of everything else, just seems to be a bit of overkill to me... but I won't be really upset, unless Neverwinter tries later to market some kind of equivalent to a coalescent ward for professions also.

    I understand the game needs to make money, (which would be much easier if astral diamonds couldn't be converted to Zen) but something like that would be just an example of someone creating a problem, then expecting players to pay in order to correct the problem they created.

    That I don't like at all.
    I want to say up front that I am no expert here. Just want to make that clear.

    But this is okay with me. At least what I have seen of it. If it ends up that the most proficient artisan at the highest level using the best tools has a 5% chance of successfully making something then I would re-think that position, but what I have seen hasn't been that big a deal to me.

    You have some artisans with recycle, which can preserve materials in case of failure, and with a high enough proficiency and tools you can improve or guarantee the chances of success.

    And yes, I did receive supplemental items in the tutorial that increase focus and proficiency, so you can help increase your odds of success, so while I don't know about any sort of coalescent ward equivalent, there are things that can help make sure that the materials will not go to waste and I am sure that they will be for sale, either for gold, AD, Zen, or whatever.


    I am curious, though, if anyone has any numbers regarding a max level artisan of the various rarities using the adamantine tools to try and make the most powerful items.

    What are the chances of success and chances of getting a high-quality version of the item?

    Does anyone even have numbers on what the difference in focus and proficiency is between two level 1 artisans and those same artisans at their level cap? I mean, if one had 47/53 and the other had 53/47 to start, what are those numbers at the cap?


  • mrvincent1959
    mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    The free artisan scrolls from the Playtest Materials box are not working for me. When I open one it says I dont meet the requirements. This is preventing me from advancing the workshop storyline - Hire 10 Artisans.

    Also, the profession materials/asset exchange is not available yet from the retainer. Not sure if that was intentional or not.
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  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    I also get that "don't meet the requirements" message when trying to open a professions artisan recruitment thing from the test helper box.

    On the bright side, I did get bonus artisans for having unlocked slots in live.

    Are our artisans going to be the same level as our skill when this goes live, or is that just for test?
    I was used to getting level 1 artisans these past few says that I have been working on this, and suddenly after the patch and with the character that I was having trouble with able to go now, I am getting level 70 blacksmiths, armorers, and adventurers from the start.
  • ornald
    ornald Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Can't buy "Artisan Recruitments" from retainer.
    Not redeemed "Profession Slot 9 Legacy Unlock" ,even if we achieved the third tier results.
  • vortex74
    vortex74 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I copied again my main character after the last patch with empty profession slots to the preview server, this time i solved the tutorial quest, i could take the gathered resources from the delivery box and the quest line was finished with success.

    Then i copied another character with fully filled profession slots from live to preview server, as soon as i logged into the preview server all finished profession tasks were emptied but only one (create Unified Elements) is still working for some hours. With this character i was able to finish the first tutorial quest, too.

    Now i'm on the Clean Start quest with 3 characters, gathering resources and crafting the materials.
  • hannibalsmith#0854
    hannibalsmith#0854 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    I see they fixed the relationship between level of tool and level of artisan. "All adamantine tools" was fun while it lasted.
  • theothergaliusz#7671
    theothergaliusz#7671 Member Posts: 56 Arc User

    Preview future recept filter in workshop does not show any recipe only show name of category/group "Masterwork" that you did not unlock
  • hannibalsmith#0854
    hannibalsmith#0854 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Grammar bug
    https://imgur.com/ml1TlLp
    Sigh if I could figure out how to post the image directly I would but using the Image tool doesn't work for me.
  • hannibalsmith#0854
    hannibalsmith#0854 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Bug: Profession slot unlock token.
    I have achieved tier 3 results in all professions (except Leadership of course).
    https://imgur.com/VlQUGDq
  • mithrosnomore
    mithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    What level does a character have to be to get the mission from Knox?

    I figured that it would be the same level as when you get to start crafting now, but after leveling a character to that point on live, when I copied them to test Knox did not have the mission for them.