The Artisan in the guild does not accept +1 Lacquered Ebony when trying to buy Artificing MW3 recipes. I am assuming the same goes for all recipes.
I would suggest not making MW4 quests available until the MW3 recipes have been bought. This would keep the progression logical and if someone wanted to then buy the items instead of make them, they would still be able to do so.
Just noticed that the Begum's South Sea Trading Company Exchange to upgrade your workshop changes the items they are looking for. I had sent my gatherers to get the materials for items listed yesterday. I made the items this morning, then saw they are no longer on the exchange. How often do they change the items on the exchange? Given that we have to gather resources for the upgrade, it would be good to know what to expect so we gather the proper resources. This is going to be a big brick wall for casual players who want to craft but do not take the time to understand the mechanics.
The list changes daily. I found out the same way when it first came out. Ya, this will probably take a month or two to get to rank 4 but I don't see the rush need to do so if ye have many mule toons to add to the gathering.
> However, after 60 attempts failed to AN ANY TIME.
60 failures on a 25% chance. Sounds like something is wrong with the high-quality system.
In total, it took me more attempts. Finally, I made Adamantine Cross-Pein Hammer +1, using the advice to increase the odds through +1 items. I got a 37% chance and after 7 attempts I made the desired + 1 tool.
For live it would take me a few weeks and it would cost over 400 gold. (Including the cost of producing ingredients and supplements) I do not know if it really encourages players to use the new profession system. I'm rather discouraged, I hate RNG and I consider it to be the most HAMSTER thing in the game.
Regardless of everything, I think that artisans have fatal stats in most cases.The commission devours us gold at the speed of light, which in turn will force us to abandon professions in a short time.
Ok seems you used all High Quality results, as suggested so wonderful!
But you were at least correct, they did slightly reduce the chance of High Quality Gear dropping, now you won't stand a very good chance unless, you at least use High Quality Materials, Tools, and Possibly also Supplements far more often!
Previous builds 0924.a1 & 0924.a2 you could more easily obtain High Quality, even without High Quality Material, High Quality Tools, or even Supplements, and I think this previously made it a little too easy! Which likely wasn't as intended!
And I agree with you about the Gold consumption... …merchants in PE needs to offer far more silver for crafted gear! As it stands with: 0% Commission Modifier you loose 2.19x over your cost to create it - verses what a PE Merchant will even offer for it!
I commented in the linked thread below, when I asked 'wasn't it enough we going to loose lots of gold' just to craft all the items for Workshop 3 &/or 4 upgrades! I mean I'm not expecting them to make it easy either... ...but I also think they seriously need to rethink Alchemy! The only profession to allow high stacked x11 items in Delivery Box? That will allow Alchemy to level Workshop 4 in 7.2 days, if you even have the 10's & 10's of 100's of gold sitting in your bank which most don't, where every other profession could take almost 79d or more!
Seems at least too stark a contrast, even if Alchemy should be given a slight advantage - I've suggested several things they need to reconsider here:
The list changes daily. I found out the same way when it first came out. Ya, this will probably take a month or two to get to rank 4 but I don't see the rush need to do so if ye have many mule toons to add to the gathering.
At rank 4 you have a chance at recruiting epic artisans. At workshop rank 3 you can get rare artisans. At least, I believe that is what was said. So getting to rank 4 gets you "free" epic artisans.
On the second of my characters, the following mistakes prevented the further development of the workshop: 1. I quickly clicked on the Profession Starter Kit, bypassing the click on the tutorial field. The tutorial did not register the Starter pickup and still ask me to pick it up "click on ". 2. I can not do the "Craft an Item at the worktable" task because all items are "grayed out". And now I do not know where the problem came from, is it connected with 1 bug, or was it caused by inserting into the slot "Well-worn Alembic" ? On the third toon: The character has 9 slots unlocked in the old profession system, however, he received only two purple artisans.
edit: I managed to solve the problem and I know that it was caused by an attempt to use the wrong alembic. After removing it from the slots, I could do the job.
The first bug unfortunately still occurs, even on the next copied char.
edit: Another character with 9 unlocked slots received only 2 epic artisans.
Post edited by mushellka on
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
Definitely! Someone noted that very early on, I believe in this very thread as a bug!
That issue with the Professional Starter Kit has existed since prior to 0924.a1 or 0924.a2 - likely existed since the first Preview we got of Heart of Fire! But it's always good to remind or repost, especially cause this is such a potential show stopper for most! If you open the Professional Starter Kit prior to the Retainer specifically instructing you to open the kit you'll be completely stuck!
This is still awaiting a FIX and is a major thing they still need to address before going LIVE!
They too early in the Quest, give you the Professional Starter Kit, and then Green Tooltip appears right away encouraging you to open it, yet if you do so before the quest objective allows it to be recognized - you get stuck in limbo unable to proceed! So you have to wait till the quest objective says to open it!
At least being PREVIEW you can delete the character, and try again.
Still this is next very major issue, they require to fix before this MOD goes LIVE! I've since added this to the list of my 5 new PROFESSIONS issues as Issue 1d in 1008a.2 despite it being there from the start - simply to like you bring it up again & hopefully it's tracked & corrected soon!
I'm sure Cryptic Developers have there own Bug tracking system! Still anything we can do to list or flag - bugs, issues, or concerns, of the community; well it can't hurt to ensure something isn't forgotten!
I and several others have also commented, they are only getting 2 of the 3 Epic Artisan's as well. That's I also listed a few days ago in the thread above. But still an excellent catch regardless!
"I still don’t see what’s going to happen to elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements."
They have yet to finish adding all the recipes into the new professions. This includes the enforcement kits which will most likely require the same inputs as before including Unified Elements, Dragon Eggs, AD Cost etc. They DO know that the kits are not there and they will be forthcoming.
I hope that some of these new recipes that they add (or that can be discovered or unlocked or whatever they do) include maces and other different weapons.
Very interesting question. I would like to know if we will still have Elemental Aggregates and Unified Elements in new mod. And, most of all... those are resources to craft Armor Reinforcement Kits... Will we still be able to craft these kits or not ? Will we have to give up reinforcements on the armor? Thanks a lot
"I still don’t see what’s going to happen to elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements."
They have yet to finish adding all the recipes into the new professions. This includes the enforcement kits which will most likely require the same inputs as before including Unified Elements, Dragon Eggs, AD Cost etc. They DO know that the kits are not there and they will be forthcoming.
Those elemental resources are used in more than just the armor kits. For example, they’re used in the MW V potions in the current system, but they’ve been removed-and-replaced in the preview system as it currently stands.
More importantly, they were used extensively in the items needed to complete the MW I quests, which is what gave them an AH market value. I don’t currently see in the preview system any of the “gemmed” or “superior” or “elemental” items used in those quests, nor can I see what they might be replaced with, so I still don’t know what the value of those elemental resources is going to be.
So I was hoping for an answer from the devs….
Please devs answer those questions: 1) will we still have elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements? 2) will we still have Armor Reinforcement Kits? Those are very important questions and I DO NEED an answer because I still have a lot of those resources and I would like to know what are they going to become in the new module!
"I still don’t see what’s going to happen to elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements."
They have yet to finish adding all the recipes into the new professions. This includes the enforcement kits which will most likely require the same inputs as before including Unified Elements, Dragon Eggs, AD Cost etc. They DO know that the kits are not there and they will be forthcoming.
I hope that some of these new recipes that they add (or that can be discovered or unlocked or whatever they do) include maces and other different weapons.
Very interesting question. I would like to know if we will still have Elemental Aggregates and Unified Elements in new mod. And, most of all... those are resources to craft Armor Reinforcement Kits... Will we still be able to craft these kits or not ? Will we have to give up reinforcements on the armor? Thanks a lot
"I still don’t see what’s going to happen to elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements."
They have yet to finish adding all the recipes into the new professions. This includes the enforcement kits which will most likely require the same inputs as before including Unified Elements, Dragon Eggs, AD Cost etc. They DO know that the kits are not there and they will be forthcoming.
Those elemental resources are used in more than just the armor kits. For example, they’re used in the MW V potions in the current system, but they’ve been removed-and-replaced in the preview system as it currently stands.
More importantly, they were used extensively in the items needed to complete the MW I quests, which is what gave them an AH market value. I don’t currently see in the preview system any of the “gemmed” or “superior” or “elemental” items used in those quests, nor can I see what they might be replaced with, so I still don’t know what the value of those elemental resources is going to be.
So I was hoping for an answer from the devs….
Please devs answer those questions: 1) will we still have elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements? 2) will we still have Armor Reinforcement Kits? Those are very important questions and I DO NEED an answer because I still have a lot of those resources and I would like to know what are they going to become in the new module!
Please we need an answer for that. Having or not Armor Reinforcement Kits is a very important difference: we will have less power, less gs, less Critical Hit if we won't have reinforcementes. Do something about that and please answer our questions. And again: if you change expensive items in worthless items, it could make difference for us. I think that all elemental items will be changed in worthless items, but please BE CLEAR about that.
Laksmi ---> splendid DC Purple Knight ---> scoundrel TR Surya Namaskar ---> strong GWF Golia ---> fair GF Nausicaa ---> dark SW Pallyda ---> growing up OP
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
@asterdahl How about let us upgrade classic sets with the professions?
Can we get "500 Item Level" versions of previously released obsolete "classic" sets? Do you have any plans to release them?
Twined Rope of Dexterity
Owlbear Leather Belt of Intelligence
Company gear
etc.
High quality system as a whole feels short sighted and a bandaid instead of a long term implement within professions. Currently with forgehammer, +1 supplement, and best artisan for focus you have a 10% chance to me a +1 beaded ring. What kind of system reduces the odds to 10% for a +1? I think anyone crafting would expect long term a +3 to +5 crafting system but that's virtually impossible if the best items now have a 10% chance at success. Not to mention.. Rings will go for leg packs and god knows what the price of armor and weapons will be. Players won't spend the ad for mediocre gains, especially with prices reflecting the amount of fails in material and final product the crafters had to eat. I see MC5 chest piece for DC going for 15m if the stats and GS are what I think they'll be. Smh. I wish the devs would explain their thought process here.
Would be nice if there were some (say 5) fashions that could be crafted through each profession tree. Doesn't.make sense someone with MC5 tailoring can't.make a single fashion piece.
Just noticed that the Begum's South Sea Trading Company Exchange to upgrade your workshop changes the items they are looking for. I had sent my gatherers to get the materials for items listed yesterday. I made the items this morning, then saw they are no longer on the exchange. How often do they change the items on the exchange? Given that we have to gather resources for the upgrade, it would be good to know what to expect so we gather the proper resources. This is going to be a big brick wall for casual players who want to craft but do not take the time to understand the mechanics.
The list changes daily. I found out the same way when it first came out. Ya, this will probably take a month or two to get to rank 4 but I don't see the rush need to do so if ye have many mule toons to add to the gathering.
Yes, the NPC woman tells you so during the tutorial, that most of you rushed, so it is absolutely intended.
Such a test. I want to do 100 pieces of adept's electuary, let's say with a 54% chance. It cost me almost 230 gold, 2/100 failed, and a total of 28 adept's electuary +1 were produced.
With the same test with a 34% chance, the cost has not changed, but the failure rate has risen to 6 per 100, and items +1 has created 24 pieces.
It looks like the stat "focus" is also responsible for the percentage of failures.
Another issue concerns the previously discussed quality of artisans. I would like to ask why every one of my epic quality artisans has a commission of 200% and usually negative speed? On what basis did you think that the new artisans are much better than our previous tools bought for the Zen? Only what is noticeably better with them is to drain our wallets from $. However, I would not consider this an advantage ...
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
Focus is mostly the chance of producing a High Quality Items, whereas Proficiency is the chance to successfully produce the Normal result.
As for your specific question about Quality of Artisans:
Common Artisan's 'typically' offer a Special Skill chance of 5-10%. Rare Artisan's 'typically' offer a Special Skill chance of 15-25%. Epic Artisans 'typically' offer a Special Skill chance of 25%.
It either a BUG, or more fall out of the guidelines: by reducing/increasing (i) commission, (ii) speed, (iii) special skill change, (iv) Proficiency &/or Focus--to allow variance in artisan's. NOTE: See Artisan Quality Matrix below.
Also you've done a clearly good test, especially seeing how much Gold the new system can easily eat, I mean even with a 0% Commission Modifier most items will cost 2.19x more to produce than you can sell at PE Merchant! They should be consider having merchants, offer slightly more Gold/Silver/Copper for several crafted items! I mean you shouldn't be loosing gold on items with a -50%, 0%, or even a +25% Commission Multiplier! One might expect you to perhaps barely break even with +50% but even then you should recoup likely 50-75% of the cost to produce it.
Still that doesn't consider all the facts: Crafting with two artisan's with +200% Commission is not an ideal Gold Test, perhaps try with -50%, -25%, 0%, +25%, or +50%! Still as I noted above they need to drastically increase the Gold/Silver/Copper for most Crafted Items by 2.5-3.0x at least!
You are correct many Epic Artisan's offer a high Commission Multiplier yet DEVs explained this cause they are Master's of their craft.
So now consider this: If you remember earlier (about you poor chances for High Quality) these Artisan's both have +395 Proficiency & +395 Focus, remember the one Epic you had with +400 Proficiency & +330 Focus you couldn't even get a 0% chance at +1 High Quality even with an Adamantine Tool! So realize these Artisan's will cost you a lot more, but they also will likely greatly improve your High Quality chances--significantly! So they are still likely going to be a highly desired Artisan for sure! But not ideal for every day more common items, that being unless you need High Quality items as paramount.
I think I've only noticed but a single Artisan who at Epic actually gave -25% Commission, but I suspect he's the guy who provides +400 Proficiency yet only +330 Focus. So that likely explains the reason why his commission is less.
I suspect DEVs are still making however some fine tuning over the coming weeks...
PS: I noticed in the chest in AI Headquarters basement, it now offers something interesting! But you're going to have to discover it yourself... ...all I'll say is there is a transmute only options available as well! So hopefully we'll see that available from several older gear's, from more campaign stores with currency in the future?
My biggest issue with rare and epic artisans is that their stats are not that much better than normal artisans. Here are the ranges I have seen for proficiency/focus, all of these are from level 70 artisans on my account on Test.
Normal 330-395 Rare 330-400 Epic 320-400
Also, I have seen normal artisans with up to 25% in special skills.
The rare and epic seems to have higher values for commission and speed. Here is what I have seen for commission and speed
Normal - 75 to +100 Rare - 75 to +150 Epic -75 to + 200
IMHO, rare and epic artisans need much greater proficiency/focus stats...rare up to 450 and epic up to 600 in order to make Masterwork workable
You missed the part where @mushellka pointed out two Epic Artisan had +395 Proficiency & +395 Focus.
Cause he previously had a Epic Artisan with +400 Proficiency & +330 Focus and couldn't even get a 0% High Quality focus, though that was likely a result why that Artisan only had a -25% Commission not +50%, +100%, +150% or even +200%!
And that's also why I updated / revised my comment above to be a little more bold by coloring it in white above.
That will make a HUGE difference in the chances for High Quality...
I'd be OK with a "few" more were charging 25%-100% Commission, if it gave a "few" more better Proficiency & Focus! Still you'd think those with 150-200% be a lot more rare, and those who charge 150-200% Commission should offer but the best Proficiency, Focus, or far higher Speed, regardless of quality.
So much to review, in limited amount of time, everyone has each week.
I think you missed the part where I pointed out above two of the Epic Artisan's @mushellka identified each had +395 Proficiency & Focus. And that's also a recent change which is why I updated / revised it to be in white above. That will make a HUGE difference in the chances for High Quality...
If we see a few more Rare & Epic with higher Proficiency & Focus many (not all) won't mind paying slightly higher Commission, at least for a few more of them! I mean it still be nice to see a variety of offerings across all Quality of Artisan's so none are all virtually the same.
I'd be OK with more charging 150% Commission if their Proficiency & Focus was Higher but those who charge 200% should offer all but the best Proficiency & Focus almost +400 in each as @mushellka example clearly shows he just didn't realize it quite then...
So much to review in limited amount of time everyone has each week.
Please read my above post slowly. It corrects some of your misinformation.
I have some epic artisans with +400 prof/focus. I also have an epic artisan with a 320 proficiency stat. Given I also have a normal artisan with a 395 proficiency, I do not think the 400 is a high enough stat for an epic artisan, especially given the difficulty of mastercraft items. And a 320 stat for an epic artisan at 70 level is way too low.
Also your info on Special Skills is wrong. All artisans can have up to 25%.
Thank you on behalf of cats and my avatar: D I also love cats (and my avatar: D)
What you write helps me in a broader look at the workshop. However, it does not stop me by subsequent tests, maybe they are chaotic, but these are serves me to draw further conclusions. I know that if I want to achieve high quality, I should use a purple artisan. But in the process of producing potions, small items and raw materials, in the long run it is worth choosing a good blue artisan with a reduced commission. Generally, not everything is as it seems at first glance.
And now we will test two artisans with the same chance of 27%. Blue artisan has 94% chance of success, while purple artisan has only 89%. The interesting thing is that despite this, the failure rate is higher at blue: 7 defeats, while purple was only 6.
With 27% chance to do item +1, they both performed it 12 times.
An important difference is the price of services. 4 times higher at the epic. In my opinion, with all the tasks below masterwok, and the occasional creation of better tools +1, it is not a good idea to use epics.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
I think you missed the part where I pointed out above two of the Epic Artisan's @mushellka identified each had +395 Proficiency & Focus. And that's also a recent change which is why I updated / revised it to be in white above. That will make a HUGE difference in the chances for High Quality...
If we see a few more Rare & Epic with higher Proficiency & Focus many (not all) won't mind paying slightly higher Commission, at least for a few more of them! I mean it still be nice to see a variety of offerings across all Quality of Artisan's so none are all virtually the same.
I'd be OK with more charging 150% Commission if their Proficiency & Focus was Higher but those who charge 200% should offer all but the best Proficiency & Focus almost +400 in each as @mushellka example clearly shows he just didn't realize it quite then...
So much to review in limited amount of time everyone has each week.
Please read my above post slowly. It corrects some of your misinformation.
I have some epic artisans with +400 prof/focus. I also have an epic artisan with a 320 proficiency stat. Given I also have a normal artisan with a 395 proficiency, I do not think the 400 is a high enough stat for an epic artisan, especially given the difficulty of mastercraft items. And a 320 stat for an epic artisan at 70 level is way too low.
Also your info on Special Skills is wrong. All artisans can have up to 25%.
My INFO is extremely accurate!
I'm not even going to disagree with the ranges you've provided, for Artisans providing Proficiency & Focus ranges of 330-400, cause I actually completely agree with you! But I do think your should be re-reading my Information far more slowly, and following your own advise! You seemed to miss, why I suggested what I did to @mushellka - yet the beautiful cat got & picked up on it cause I thought I explained it quite clearly.
[87.5%] at least initially if not all originally prior to 0924.a1: followed the Common Artisan's giving Special Skills of 5-10%, while Rare often gave Special Skill of 15-20%, and Epic almost always gave Special Skill of 25%! Having said since 0924.a2 & 1008a.2 it then began with 2, 3, possible 4-5 or 'a few' more now seem to indeed fall outside of that, but I'm not sure if those are BUGS or the variance is coming from lower/higher: (i) speed modifier, (ii) commission modifier, or (iii) special skill modifier changes--though the later is looking more & more likely. If Artisans have both a high Proficiency & Focus, then something else is likely to be far less beneficial, I've recognized there were variances right from the start, but things often change every week. In fact with each patch they seem to be increasing, as they likely tweak or modify more Artisan's, so they are all more unique in more ways! What I said is the 'typical' common range for Special Skill is 5-10%, with rare typically between 15-20%, and epic is about 25%. There are just far too many variables, to keep the answers short & concise, but I think what DEVs are doing is explained here:
To the best of my knowledge the relationship of Proficiency & Focus is only compensated higher &/or lower by adjusting commission, speed, &/or special skill values in some fashion. If one is higher, then there is one lower, and vice / versa.
As I pointed out to @mushellka above in regards to two Epic Artisan's who had a +200% Commission, it was likely because both offer an INSANE combined Proficiency & Focus of Proficiency +395 & Focus +395, which is extremely high for a combined +790 total as I denoted above.
I also have no problem you wanting an Artisan's with a Proficiency &/Focus above 400! Yet I think this could be the wrong approach? Realize if they extend both as high as 420, in so doing will only result in one of several other values being far lower! By perhaps reducing (i) speed, (ii) special skill, or increasing (iii) commission, even more! Many won't want an Artisan's who falls into one extreme, still I wouldn't be surprised if there is at least a few who do.
Yet I don't know, if your trying to solve the problem, perhaps in the correct way? I could be wrong?
I think you should be asking for is Well-Worn Mastercraft I, or Epic Mastercraft II tools be perhaps given a little more than +370 &/or +375 Proficiency & Focus than they have! Perhaps Mastercraft I Well-Worn Tools should be given +375, then arguing the Mastercraft II Epic tools given +380/385 or higher, and that my friend I'd likely fully support.
But before you ask for that, please also realize this! Cause I'm not saying they should do it either, as I mostly wanted to get your attention to this next point. At Mastercraft IV you can obtain additional earnable Mastercraft tools currently each at +375 and had you 4x Mastercraft Tools each offering +375 it would likely make a world of difference to you! Not to mention if your Artisan each had close to +395 Proficiency & Focus alone. Still I think they need to reconsider raising the Proficiency & Focus on Several tools! Still if your in Mastercraft you're likely going to need several tools, just so you can run several projects all at once, not to mention the best artisan's for each.
But also have you considered they may want to give back prominence to GOND - my goodness what's do his tools offer at Legendary or even at Mythic? So perhaps I've opened your eyes just a little to what I'm thinking... ...also will Professional Packs once and awhile if your lucky to see a blue moon drop Legendary tools, for some Mastercraft Professions from time to time? Have you thought about that? Cause my goodness I hope they do and if not they really need to re-think things.
Regardless what you claim, I think I've done a very good job, clearly and accurately representing facts, as best I know them to be.
It is true. White artisans can have Special Skills up to 25%. However, it does not mean that they are good.
Oh my favorite cat, you getting very good in how you explain yourself! I would also greatly encourage you & hope you do continue in your testing as that is the best way to learn! I would never discourage anybody in that regard. Realize when I say 'typical' special skill for Common Artisan I mean the base normal, just like they also have a base normal for Common Artisan for Proficiency & Focus as well... ...also you can get High Quality results just as good with a Common &/or Rare Artisan! Just Rare and Epic will generally offer more overall. Later on this in this thread I posted the Artisan Quality Matrix to better explain what I was talking about.
You started saying, "It is true. White artisans can have Special Skills up to 25%. However, it does not mean that they are good." So I think that is a good place to like start the conversation. I fully agree with that statement! Realize to get the non-typical 5-10% special skill as a result, it looks like their Proficiency took a hit of almost -25 to -35 to increase the special skill from 5-10% out to 25%.
Realize (most) Common Artisan's 'typically' will see a 370-380 Proficiency & 340-350 Focus, but each of those will increase or decrease depending how much Commission, Speed, &/or their Special Skill exceeds the typical range as well. Just as equally the Special Skill 'typically' for a Common Artistan is normally 5-10% for their quality. If one increases then another likely decreases somewhere else. But again that's just an example, so if their Speed is greatly higher, then Proficiency, or Focus may be Lower or their Commission Higher.
Just as equally: If you get a Rare Artisan who typically has a 15-20% Special Skill, but suddenly only has a %5 Special Skill in Miracle Worker or Dab Hand for example. This may allow that Rare Artisan to also greatly benefit from Increased Speed, Lower Commission, or a higher Proficiency &/or Focus. But at least this discussion, is likely to make many aware, of the possibilities.
There far too many variables to easily explain: Be nice if DEVs posted a photo BLOG showing several of the initial Artisan's offered at the Launch of HEART OF FIRE! I suspect that would be up to @asterdahl if he thought that would be a good idea, and likely need to speak to the Art Department to put together a BLOG or graphic?
Thought, if you look at the two common Artisan's above, you'll see most values the same--identically in fact. OK not identical. But one only has +10 Proficiency & the other -10 Focus, so the combined total's are the same! The only difference is one guy charged a higher Commission which most would view as a negative, but does make up for it because he's a faster worker, well if that benefits you is really dependant upon the player. A more casual player may not care about the speed increase, only that the proficiency & focus as high as they could be, while other players may not care about the special skills depending what they crafting, there are so many variables, that will apply differently to different people!
Still I think the reason you don't like neither is given the lower Proficiency, and given that fact you're likely to have more failed attempts! But how do you feel about the higher Special Skills each offers, and do they make up for the lost Proficiency you're noticing? or
I would rather see more changes to Special Skills at least at the Rare Artisan or Epic Artisan levels! Cause I think I'd rather see more common Artisan's with 5-10% Special Skill if their Proficiency was typically 370-380 &/or 340-350 Focus cause their less room to play with them than perhaps there is with Rare Artisans or Epic Artisans for sure!
I mean I actually LOVE when a Rare Artisan reduces their typical 15-20% Special Skill dropping it to 5-10%, as you could likely benefit greatly from one of the following increasing:
Proficiency,
Focus,
Reduced Commission,
or Increased Speed.
One things for sure no matter what, were likely to see all possibilities! As each Artisan likely is going to come with their own advantages &/or disadvantages - just like people all do. So like in all things: we need to be reminded, of the good, when considering the bad.
If the advantages of White/Blue/Purple craftsman are not obvious and tied to their rank, this creates player confusion and uncertainty. Making the whole system harder to understand.
Crafting should not require a special study of the crafting system to make sense of the relative value of basic products, it should follow the model of the whole game. White < Blue < Purple should be apparent.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
If the advantages of White/Blue/Purple craftsman are not obvious and tied to their rank, this creates player confusion and uncertainty. Making the whole system harder to understand.
Crafting should not require a special study of the crafting system to make sense of the relative value of basic products, it should follow the model of the whole game. White < Blue < Purple should be apparent.
This was why I was slightly concerned, when I saw a lot more variation being introduced, especially starting in 0924.a1 & 0924.a2, as there was quickly more variance of values across Proficiency, Focus, Commission, Speed, and Special Skill modifier's. I think it's likely not to hard to grasp once you 'get' generally the idea of how it works, but the first time trying to wrap your head around it, I admit especially cause there's no guidelines it's a bit challenging!
Though I think I've tried to explain it fairly clearly above, but I admit, there is a lot more to familiarize with than what we had!
Previously an Epic Artisan represented just a Speed Modifer, whereas a Epic Tool represented a quality Modifier. Then it was just a matter of deciding how many you wanted to slot. Though now all values strongly reside just within the Artisan, while Tools are not a lot more complex, as they are just Proficiency & Focus!
One must first realize PROFICIENCY representing the chance of success, with the later FOCUS representing the chance of a High Quality result.
What complicates things a bit, is that as Artisan's each offers unique things, just like people are much more complex, by reducing a value in Focus may reduce his High Quality Chance, you may gain extra speed of crafting; or by increasing his Commission he may offer a Higher Success Chance &/or Higher High Quality Chance.
But a lot more variety in how each and every Artisan can very, almost just as much as people all can in real life.
Post edited by strathkin on
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited October 2018
lots of the items crafted for neck and belts dont have fisical appearance changes, specialy the bone necklace icon looks awesome but no transmute/graphic appearance to make it justice, sad the game doesnt have anything for these appearance
@strathkin you make a very common error. You think that your subset of information shows a complete picture. You then write a wall of text explaining your thoughts based on a limited subset of information.
I have read your meandering posts. You have misinformation and lots of speculation mixed with very little facts. You don't seem to understand basic statistics and distribution of random numbers.
My posts list out the details I see in my subset of information. People can view my data and come to their own conclusions, adding what I see to their knowledge base.
As I have posted and others have agreed, there is not enough difference in stats between common, rare and epic artisans. Your posts disagree with this basic issue that many people have.
Another major issue I see is based on other people posting about MC recipes added to what I see on Test. The chance of failure in the new system is greater than in the current system. IMHO, a large part of this could be solved by increasing the stats of the rare and epic artisans.
Another issue people bring up is gold. The cost to make recipes seems to be too high based on their analysis. It is unclear if the developers are adding ways to get more gold and/or if they are correcting issues that we had with insignias not working properly. Many people have posted regarding the overall decrease in gold equivalents from drops.
Comments
I would suggest not making MW4 quests available until the MW3 recipes have been bought. This would keep the progression logical and if someone wanted to then buy the items instead of make them, they would still be able to do so.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
Neverwinter Wonderland
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Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
But you were at least correct, they did slightly reduce the chance of High Quality Gear dropping, now you won't stand a very good chance unless, you at least use High Quality Materials, Tools, and Possibly also Supplements far more often!
Previous builds 0924.a1 & 0924.a2 you could more easily obtain High Quality, even without High Quality Material, High Quality Tools, or even Supplements, and I think this previously made it a little too easy! Which likely wasn't as intended!
And I agree with you about the Gold consumption... …merchants in PE needs to offer far more silver for crafted gear! As it stands with: 0% Commission Modifier you loose 2.19x over your cost to create it - verses what a PE Merchant will even offer for it!
I commented in the linked thread below, when I asked 'wasn't it enough we going to loose lots of gold' just to craft all the items for Workshop 3 &/or 4 upgrades! I mean I'm not expecting them to make it easy either... ...but I also think they seriously need to rethink Alchemy! The only profession to allow high stacked x11 items in Delivery Box? That will allow Alchemy to level Workshop 4 in 7.2 days, if you even have the 10's & 10's of 100's of gold sitting in your bank which most don't, where every other profession could take almost 79d or more!
Seems at least too stark a contrast, even if Alchemy should be given a slight advantage - I've suggested several things they need to reconsider here:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/5-new-professions-issues-since-1008a-2
I'd encourage everyone try to remain HOPEFUL, there is still a lot of fine tuning to be made! Especially in the weeks ahead...
1. I quickly clicked on the Profession Starter Kit, bypassing the click on the tutorial field. The tutorial did not register the Starter pickup and still ask me to pick it up "click on ".
2. I can not do the "Craft an Item at the worktable" task because all items are "grayed out".
And now I do not know where the problem came from, is it connected with 1 bug, or was it caused by inserting into the slot "Well-worn Alembic" ?
On the third toon:
The character has 9 slots unlocked in the old profession system, however, he received only two purple artisans.
edit:
I managed to solve the problem and I know that it was caused by an attempt to use the wrong alembic. After removing it from the slots, I could do the job.
The first bug unfortunately still occurs, even on the next copied char.
edit:
Another character with 9 unlocked slots received only 2 epic artisans.
Definitely! Someone noted that very early on, I believe in this very thread as a bug!
That issue with the Professional Starter Kit has existed since prior to 0924.a1 or 0924.a2 - likely existed since the first Preview we got of Heart of Fire! But it's always good to remind or repost, especially cause this is such a potential show stopper for most! If you open the Professional Starter Kit prior to the Retainer specifically instructing you to open the kit you'll be completely stuck!
This is still awaiting a FIX and is a major thing they still need to address before going LIVE!
They too early in the Quest, give you the Professional Starter Kit, and then Green Tooltip appears right away encouraging you to open it, yet if you do so before the quest objective allows it to be recognized - you get stuck in limbo unable to proceed! So you have to wait till the quest objective says to open it!
At least being PREVIEW you can delete the character, and try again.
Still this is next very major issue, they require to fix before this MOD goes LIVE! I've since added this to the list of my 5 new PROFESSIONS issues as Issue 1d in 1008a.2 despite it being there from the start - simply to like you bring it up again & hopefully it's tracked & corrected soon!
I'm sure Cryptic Developers have there own Bug tracking system! Still anything we can do to list or flag - bugs, issues, or concerns, of the community; well it can't hurt to ensure something isn't forgotten!
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/5-new-professions-issues-since-1008a-2
I and several others have also commented, they are only getting 2 of the 3 Epic Artisan's as well. That's I also listed a few days ago in the thread above. But still an excellent catch regardless!
1) will we still have elemental fire/water/air/earth, Elemental Aggregates, and Unified Elements?
2) will we still have Armor Reinforcement Kits?
Those are very important questions and I DO NEED an answer because I still have a lot of those resources and I would like to know what are they going to become in the new module!
Having or not Armor Reinforcement Kits is a very important difference: we will have less power, less gs, less Critical Hit if we won't have reinforcementes. Do something about that and please answer our questions.
And again: if you change expensive items in worthless items, it could make difference for us.
I think that all elemental items will be changed in worthless items, but please BE CLEAR about that.
Purple Knight ---> scoundrel TR
Surya Namaskar ---> strong GWF
Golia ---> fair GF
Nausicaa ---> dark SW
Pallyda ---> growing up OP
How about let us upgrade classic sets with the professions?
Do you have any plans to release them?
Dead🔪It cost me almost 230 gold, 2/100 failed, and a total of 28 adept's electuary +1 were produced.
With the same test with a 34% chance, the cost has not changed, but the failure rate has risen to 6 per 100, and items +1 has created 24 pieces.
It looks like the stat "focus" is also responsible for the percentage of failures.
Another issue concerns the previously discussed quality of artisans. I would like to ask why every one of my epic quality artisans has a commission of 200% and usually negative speed? On what basis did you think that the new artisans are much better than our previous tools bought for the Zen? Only what is noticeably better with them is to drain our wallets from $. However, I would not consider this an advantage ...
Focus is mostly the chance of producing a High Quality Items, whereas Proficiency is the chance to successfully produce the Normal result.
As for your specific question about Quality of Artisans:
Common Artisan's 'typically' offer a Special Skill chance of 5-10%.
Rare Artisan's 'typically' offer a Special Skill chance of 15-25%.
Epic Artisans 'typically' offer a Special Skill chance of 25%.
NOTE: See Artisan Quality Matrix I appended at the bottom of:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/new-professional-issues-since-1008a-2
- It either a BUG, or more fall out of the guidelines: by reducing/increasing (i) commission, (ii) speed, (iii) special skill change, (iv) Proficiency &/or Focus--to allow variance in artisan's. NOTE: See Artisan Quality Matrix below.
I re-added it as the 3rd Issue here (cause now I had specific examples) that earlier I hadn't previously had:https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/5-new-professions-issues-since-1008a-2
Also you've done a clearly good test, especially seeing how much Gold the new system can easily eat, I mean even with a 0% Commission Modifier most items will cost 2.19x more to produce than you can sell at PE Merchant! They should be consider having merchants, offer slightly more Gold/Silver/Copper for several crafted items! I mean you shouldn't be loosing gold on items with a -50%, 0%, or even a +25% Commission Multiplier! One might expect you to perhaps barely break even with +50% but even then you should recoup likely 50-75% of the cost to produce it.
Still that doesn't consider all the facts: Crafting with two artisan's with +200% Commission is not an ideal Gold Test, perhaps try with -50%, -25%, 0%, +25%, or +50%! Still as I noted above they need to drastically increase the Gold/Silver/Copper for most Crafted Items by 2.5-3.0x at least!
You are correct many Epic Artisan's offer a high Commission Multiplier yet DEVs explained this cause they are Master's of their craft.
So now consider this: If you remember earlier (about you poor chances for High Quality) these Artisan's both have +395 Proficiency & +395 Focus, remember the one Epic you had with +400 Proficiency & +330 Focus you couldn't even get a 0% chance at +1 High Quality even with an Adamantine Tool! So realize these Artisan's will cost you a lot more, but they also will likely greatly improve your High Quality chances--significantly! So they are still likely going to be a highly desired Artisan for sure! But not ideal for every day more common items, that being unless you need High Quality items as paramount.
I think I've only noticed but a single Artisan who at Epic actually gave -25% Commission, but I suspect he's the guy who provides +400 Proficiency yet only +330 Focus. So that likely explains the reason why his commission is less.
I suspect DEVs are still making however some fine tuning over the coming weeks...
PS: I noticed in the chest in AI Headquarters basement, it now offers something interesting! But you're going to have to discover it yourself... ...all I'll say is there is a transmute only options available as well! So hopefully we'll see that available from several older gear's, from more campaign stores with currency in the future?
Normal 330-395
Rare 330-400
Epic 320-400
Also, I have seen normal artisans with up to 25% in special skills.
The rare and epic seems to have higher values for commission and speed. Here is what I have seen for commission and speed
Normal - 75 to +100
Rare - 75 to +150
Epic -75 to + 200
IMHO, rare and epic artisans need much greater proficiency/focus stats...rare up to 450 and epic up to 600 in order to make Masterwork workable
You missed the part where @mushellka pointed out two Epic Artisan had +395 Proficiency & +395 Focus.
Cause he previously had a Epic Artisan with +400 Proficiency & +330 Focus and couldn't even get a 0% High Quality focus, though that was likely a result why that Artisan only had a -25% Commission not +50%, +100%, +150% or even +200%!
Depends on what skills/modifiers they adjusted outside the 'typical' standard for the Artisan's Quality Matrix now found here:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/new-professional-issues-since-1008a-2
And that's also why I updated / revised my comment above to be a little more bold by coloring it in white above.
That will make a HUGE difference in the chances for High Quality...
I'd be OK with a "few" more were charging 25%-100% Commission, if it gave a "few" more better Proficiency & Focus! Still you'd think those with 150-200% be a lot more rare, and those who charge 150-200% Commission should offer but the best Proficiency, Focus, or far higher Speed, regardless of quality.
So much to review, in limited amount of time, everyone has each week.
I have some epic artisans with +400 prof/focus. I also have an epic artisan with a 320 proficiency stat. Given I also have a normal artisan with a 395 proficiency, I do not think the 400 is a high enough stat for an epic artisan, especially given the difficulty of mastercraft items. And a 320 stat for an epic artisan at 70 level is way too low.
Also your info on Special Skills is wrong. All artisans can have up to 25%.
However, it does not mean that they are good.
Thank you on behalf of cats and my avatar: D
I also love cats (and my avatar: D)
What you write helps me in a broader look at the workshop.
However, it does not stop me by subsequent tests, maybe they are chaotic, but these are serves me to draw further conclusions.
I know that if I want to achieve high quality, I should use a purple artisan.
But in the process of producing potions, small items and raw materials, in the long run it is worth choosing a good blue artisan with a reduced commission.
Generally, not everything is as it seems at first glance.
And now we will test two artisans with the same chance of 27%.
Blue artisan has 94% chance of success, while purple artisan has only 89%.
The interesting thing is that despite this, the failure rate is higher at blue: 7 defeats, while purple was only 6.
With 27% chance to do item +1, they both performed it 12 times.
An important difference is the price of services. 4 times higher at the epic.
In my opinion, with all the tasks below masterwok, and the occasional creation of better tools +1, it is not a good idea to use epics.
I'm not even going to disagree with the ranges you've provided, for Artisans providing Proficiency & Focus ranges of 330-400, cause I actually completely agree with you! But I do think your should be re-reading my Information far more slowly, and following your own advise! You seemed to miss, why I suggested what I did to @mushellka - yet the beautiful cat got & picked up on it cause I thought I explained it quite clearly.
[87.5%] at least initially if not all originally prior to 0924.a1: followed the Common Artisan's giving Special Skills of 5-10%, while Rare often gave Special Skill of 15-20%, and Epic almost always gave Special Skill of 25%! Having said since 0924.a2 & 1008a.2 it then began with 2, 3, possible 4-5 or 'a few' more now seem to indeed fall outside of that, but I'm not sure if those are BUGS or the variance is coming from lower/higher: (i) speed modifier, (ii) commission modifier, or (iii) special skill modifier changes--though the later is looking more & more likely. If Artisans have both a high Proficiency & Focus, then something else is likely to be far less beneficial, I've recognized there were variances right from the start, but things often change every week. In fact with each patch they seem to be increasing, as they likely tweak or modify more Artisan's, so they are all more unique in more ways! What I said is the 'typical' common range for Special Skill is 5-10%, with rare typically between 15-20%, and epic is about 25%. There are just far too many variables, to keep the answers short & concise, but I think what DEVs are doing is explained here:
To the best of my knowledge the relationship of Proficiency & Focus is only compensated higher &/or lower by adjusting commission, speed, &/or special skill values in some fashion. If one is higher, then there is one lower, and vice / versa.
Since I first made this post as I later APPENDED the Artisan Quality Matrix later on in this thread where it first appeared. I've also since added it to this BUG blog one of 3 I've done so far:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/new-professional-issues-since-1008a-2
As I pointed out to @mushellka above in regards to two Epic Artisan's who had a +200% Commission, it was likely because both offer an INSANE combined Proficiency & Focus of Proficiency +395 & Focus +395, which is extremely high for a combined +790 total as I denoted above.
I also have no problem you wanting an Artisan's with a Proficiency &/Focus above 400!
Yet I think this could be the wrong approach? Realize if they extend both as high as 420, in so doing will only result in one of several other values being far lower! By perhaps reducing (i) speed, (ii) special skill, or increasing (iii) commission, even more! Many won't want an Artisan's who falls into one extreme, still I wouldn't be surprised if there is at least a few who do.
Yet I don't know, if your trying to solve the problem, perhaps in the correct way? I could be wrong?
I think you should be asking for is Well-Worn Mastercraft I, or Epic Mastercraft II tools be perhaps given a little more than +370 &/or +375 Proficiency & Focus than they have! Perhaps Mastercraft I Well-Worn Tools should be given +375, then arguing the Mastercraft II Epic tools given +380/385 or higher, and that my friend I'd likely fully support.
But before you ask for that, please also realize this! Cause I'm not saying they should do it either, as I mostly wanted to get your attention to this next point. At Mastercraft IV you can obtain additional earnable Mastercraft tools currently each at +375 and had you 4x Mastercraft Tools each offering +375 it would likely make a world of difference to you! Not to mention if your Artisan each had close to +395 Proficiency & Focus alone. Still I think they need to reconsider raising the Proficiency & Focus on Several tools! Still if your in Mastercraft you're likely going to need several tools, just so you can run several projects all at once, not to mention the best artisan's for each.
But also have you considered they may want to give back prominence to GOND - my goodness what's do his tools offer at Legendary or even at Mythic?
Regardless what you claim, I think I've done a very good job, clearly and accurately representing facts, as best I know them to be.
It first appears later in this very thread, but I later appended it also to this thread:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/new-professional-issues-since-1008a-2
You started saying, "It is true. White artisans can have Special Skills up to 25%. However, it does not mean that they are good." So I think that is a good place to like start the conversation. I fully agree with that statement! Realize to get the non-typical 5-10% special skill as a result, it looks like their Proficiency took a hit of almost -25 to -35 to increase the special skill from 5-10% out to 25%.
Realize (most) Common Artisan's 'typically' will see a 370-380 Proficiency & 340-350 Focus, but each of those will increase or decrease depending how much Commission, Speed, &/or their Special Skill exceeds the typical range as well. Just as equally the Special Skill 'typically' for a Common Artistan is normally 5-10% for their quality. If one increases then another likely decreases somewhere else. But again that's just an example, so if their Speed is greatly higher, then Proficiency, or Focus may be Lower or their Commission Higher.
Just as equally: If you get a Rare Artisan who typically has a 15-20% Special Skill, but suddenly only has a %5 Special Skill in Miracle Worker or Dab Hand for example. This may allow that Rare Artisan to also greatly benefit from Increased Speed, Lower Commission, or a higher Proficiency &/or Focus. But at least this discussion, is likely to make many aware, of the possibilities.
There far too many variables to easily explain:
Be nice if DEVs posted a photo BLOG showing several of the initial Artisan's offered at the Launch of HEART OF FIRE! I suspect that would be up to @asterdahl if he thought that would be a good idea, and likely need to speak to the Art Department to put together a BLOG or graphic?
Thought, if you look at the two common Artisan's above, you'll see most values the same--identically in fact. OK not identical. But one only has +10 Proficiency & the other -10 Focus, so the combined total's are the same! The only difference is one guy charged a higher Commission which most would view as a negative, but does make up for it because he's a faster worker, well if that benefits you is really dependant upon the player. A more casual player may not care about the speed increase, only that the proficiency & focus as high as they could be, while other players may not care about the special skills depending what they crafting, there are so many variables, that will apply differently to different people!
Still I think the reason you don't like neither is given the lower Proficiency, and given that fact you're likely to have more failed attempts! But how do you feel about the higher Special Skills each offers, and do they make up for the lost Proficiency you're noticing?
I would rather see more changes to Special Skills at least at the Rare Artisan or Epic Artisan levels! Cause I think I'd rather see more common Artisan's with 5-10% Special Skill if their Proficiency was typically 370-380 &/or 340-350 Focus cause their less room to play with them than perhaps there is with Rare Artisans or Epic Artisans for sure!
I mean I actually LOVE when a Rare Artisan reduces their typical 15-20% Special Skill dropping it to 5-10%, as you could likely benefit greatly from one of the following increasing:
- Proficiency,
- Focus,
- Reduced Commission,
- or Increased Speed.
One things for sure no matter what, were likely to see all possibilities! As each Artisan likely is going to come with their own advantages &/or disadvantages - just like people all do. So like in all things: we need to be reminded, of the good, when considering the bad.Crafting should not require a special study of the crafting system to make sense of the relative value of basic products, it should follow the model of the whole game. White < Blue < Purple should be apparent.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Though I think I've tried to explain it fairly clearly above, but I admit, there is a lot more to familiarize with than what we had!
Previously an Epic Artisan represented just a Speed Modifer, whereas a Epic Tool represented a quality Modifier. Then it was just a matter of deciding how many you wanted to slot. Though now all values strongly reside just within the Artisan, while Tools are not a lot more complex, as they are just Proficiency & Focus!
One must first realize PROFICIENCY representing the chance of success, with the later FOCUS representing the chance of a High Quality result.
What complicates things a bit, is that as Artisan's each offers unique things, just like people are much more complex, by reducing a value in Focus may reduce his High Quality Chance, you may gain extra speed of crafting; or by increasing his Commission he may offer a Higher Success Chance &/or Higher High Quality Chance.
Later in this thread I posted the Artisan Quality Matrix and since added here:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1243406/new-professional-issues-since-1008a-2
But a lot more variety in how each and every Artisan can very, almost just as much as people all can in real life.
I have read your meandering posts. You have misinformation and lots of speculation mixed with very little facts. You don't seem to understand basic statistics and distribution of random numbers.
My posts list out the details I see in my subset of information. People can view my data and come to their own conclusions, adding what I see to their knowledge base.
As I have posted and others have agreed, there is not enough difference in stats between common, rare and epic artisans. Your posts disagree with this basic issue that many people have.
Another major issue I see is based on other people posting about MC recipes added to what I see on Test. The chance of failure in the new system is greater than in the current system. IMHO, a large part of this could be solved by increasing the stats of the rare and epic artisans.
Another issue people bring up is gold. The cost to make recipes seems to be too high based on their analysis. It is unclear if the developers are adding ways to get more gold and/or if they are correcting issues that we had with insignias not working properly. Many people have posted regarding the overall decrease in gold equivalents from drops.