The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
The first sentence and the last part of the second sentence sum up the reasons why you choose a Scourge Warlock.
That's not a very funny joke. This sentence must be rewritten.
Lol, and that wasn't even the joke. That first image is direct from the character creation screen and that is what the class is meant to be. The Scourge Warlock is not a healer, nor is he a support class. It isn't a 'Buff Warlock' or a 'Healing Warlock', it is a 'Scourge Warlock'. The SWs powers are granted by Belial, a greater Devil from the Nine Hells. Since freaking when does a Devil go around buffing teammates or healing people? They don't, they destroy things.
That's why a lot of people are saying the class is unbalanced with a very strong need to fix the damage dealt parts of both the Hellbringer and Soul Binder paragons. Even the name, 'Hellbringer', what part of that implies buffs and healing?
So please, no more talk about changing the class to a healer or a full support class. That is not what the SW is meant to do. And if that is what you want your toon to be, make a Paladin or Cleric.
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Do you know how close damage wise the SW, CW and TR are in mod 15? I'm asking to see if these 3 classes damage on the DPS side are similar and if so, how close are we talking about? Also, does the DO DC damage align with these 3 class dps builds?
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Do you know how close damage wise the SW, CW and TR are in mod 15? I'm asking to see if these 3 classes damage on the DPS side are similar and if so, how close are we talking about? Also, does the DO DC damage align with these 3 class dps builds?
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
HR are affected in mod 15 we don't need to wait for a future, so the only pure and viable dps class in the game is GWF and maybe GF. Other classes should run as support because you know....the META.
All text specified below is only my opinion, and, obiously, you may not agree with me. I'm not trying to offend something but.....
I think all this suggestions, proposals about what should be changed to balance SW, what should be done right now to make SW as playable DPS class, which can stand in the one line with GWF and GF, or at least with HR are useless. There is no way that someone from balance team read this and realise that they should change their changelog, buff class and etc. Balance team has its own vision how balance should look like, and if the decide to make SW the worst class in the game they will do this. And we can not do anything with this. None of the Cryptic team is interested in our feedback about this changelog, they only interested in making money, and until tons of people donate a lot of money, situation won't change. They can say a lot of beatiful words about how much they want to create balanced game which everyone would like to enjoy, but it is only words. The reality says that you should play only on GWF if you want to do damage. You have no choice. So you can ask support team to take a look on this forum, this thread, this suggestions about improving SW gameplay, but, you must realise that they don't care about these. So, in a few words:
no one want to hear you
no one will here you
no one won't care about what you are writing here
no one is thinking about your current game experience
btw, even if they will listen to community, a lot of time is required to implement, test and release new changes. So even if someone care about us, we cannot expect improvements in the nearest future.
Thank you for few minutes which you dedicated to read this comment, and have a nice day. All hail Cryptic!
From my point of view Fury should be better DPS buff (Pillar is basically already great in groups with 3 DPS, in groups with the SW being the main DPS it's much less effective in total, so basically unbalanced), Fury Soulworker single target roughly up with the GWF while having... interesting mechanics to maintain your damage output and Temp have better damage mitigation and also at least a crutch heal out of combat maybe a save heals mechanics like DC faithful capstone so you get at least always some heals flowing when needed. No idea which encounters or feats I would change since I rarely play my SW.
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Is the buffer the puppet or the one who does 3 billion DPS by holding R2? Gaze into the puppet and the puppet gazes into you...
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Do you know how close damage wise the SW, CW and TR are in mod 15? I'm asking to see if these 3 classes damage on the DPS side are similar and if so, how close are we talking about? Also, does the DO DC damage align with these 3 class dps builds?
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
HR are affected in mod 15 we don't need to wait for a future, so the only pure and viable dps class in the game is GWF and maybe GF. Other classes should run as support because you know....the META.
The thing is, in another thread, dev mention mod 16 and how these changes will impact the class. My guess is SW will be a healer role and here is why I think that.
Right now the game has two possible tanks classes GF and OP and two possible healer OP and DC. With mod 16 that may change and we may see an added role, dev stated it another thread. Here are my thoughts on where the game is going...
Tank: GF, GWF, and OP Healer: DC, OP and SW New Role Buffer: HR, TR, CW New class with DPS role: DC, GF
I feel what we see now are some minor changes to the game and if the community can let itself open up to the idea of changing the game and allowing us to play more than one singular role the game will expand as will the Q system. The devs will be able to adjust buffs more and debuff and setup the game around 1 real tank with some buffing but not like we see today, 1 healer that provides modest buffing like a tank but not to the level we see now and than 1 buffer that is the primary group member for buffing and debuffing. Last and not least are the two DPS classes that like the tank and healer can bring some buffs and debuff to the table but not like the buffer role.
To achieve such an idea CHANGE has to happen to each class. What we are seeing is part of that change with mod 15. DO DC buffing being reduced and their own personal damage side increased. CW getting reworked. TR getting a buffng type path. SW with additional modification. GF and GWF getting some tweaking and than HR also getting tweaked.
I believe this idea that the devs have not really dived into is still in the work and will require mod 16 to implement and 17 and 18 will be balancing out the DPS and support sides of the classes to ensure that each class and the roles it play are feasible and worth wild to take along in end game content.
I'm all about accepting changes in life and this game simply will change to provide us more as player, it is what many want but when the dev try there are pitchforks and torches at their doorstep than they need to implement such changes. I sometimes join that crew but if we all take a step back and give them the room and time they need they should be able to improve the game for all and not just a select few individuals.
The only thing I dislike about all of mod 15 has been a serious lack of communication. More was need up front about long term plans for the game so we as players would have at least been a bit more on board if we knew the devs were doing these changes for long term changes for us as players.
And if we as players don't like the changes we have option that are not NWO that are available to us as a form of entertainment.
I know I will play less than normal now that the fall shows are airing again.
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Do you know how close damage wise the SW, CW and TR are in mod 15? I'm asking to see if these 3 classes damage on the DPS side are similar and if so, how close are we talking about? Also, does the DO DC damage align with these 3 class dps builds?
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
HR are affected in mod 15 we don't need to wait for a future, so the only pure and viable dps class in the game is GWF and maybe GF. Other classes should run as support because you know....the META.
The thing is, in another thread, dev mention mod 16 and how these changes will impact the class. My guess is SW will be a healer role and here is why I think that.
Right now the game has two possible tanks classes GF and OP and two possible healer OP and DC. With mod 16 that may change and we may see an added role, dev stated it another thread. Here are my thoughts on where the game is going...
Tank: GF, GWF, and OP Healer: DC, OP and SW New Role Buffer: HR, TR, CW New class with DPS role: DC, GF
I feel what we see now are some minor changes to the game and if the community can let itself open up to the idea of changing the game and allowing us to play more than one singular role the game will expand as will the Q system. The devs will be able to adjust buffs more and debuff and setup the game around 1 real tank with some buffing but not like we see today, 1 healer that provides modest buffing like a tank but not to the level we see now and than 1 buffer that is the primary group member for buffing and debuffing. Last and not least are the two DPS classes that like the tank and healer can bring some buffs and debuff to the table but not like the buffer role.
To achieve such an idea CHANGE has to happen to each class. What we are seeing is part of that change with mod 15. DO DC buffing being reduced and their own personal damage side increased. CW getting reworked. TR getting a buffng type path. SW with additional modification. GF and GWF getting some tweaking and than HR also getting tweaked.
I believe this idea that the devs have not really dived into is still in the work and will require mod 16 to implement and 17 and 18 will be balancing out the DPS and support sides of the classes to ensure that each class and the roles it play are feasible and worth wild to take along in end game content.
I'm all about accepting changes in life and this game simply will change to provide us more as player, it is what many want but when the dev try there are pitchforks and torches at their doorstep than they need to implement such changes. I sometimes join that crew but if we all take a step back and give them the room and time they need they should be able to improve the game for all and not just a select few individuals.
The only thing I dislike about all of mod 15 has been a serious lack of communication. More was need up front about long term plans for the game so we as players would have at least been a bit more on board if we knew the devs were doing these changes for long term changes for us as players.
And if we as players don't like the changes we have option that are not NWO that are available to us as a form of entertainment.
I know I will play less than normal now that the fall shows are airing again.
I agree with you. Changes are just the part of the game... but, I have one question. How much time do we need to wait until balance will be fixed? 1 module? 2? 3? I don't want to play 2 years, just waiting for the bless from developers to play game in equal conditions with other classes. And if you say that I should wait this 2 years, please, tell me why?
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Do you know how close damage wise the SW, CW and TR are in mod 15? I'm asking to see if these 3 classes damage on the DPS side are similar and if so, how close are we talking about? Also, does the DO DC damage align with these 3 class dps builds?
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
HR are affected in mod 15 we don't need to wait for a future, so the only pure and viable dps class in the game is GWF and maybe GF. Other classes should run as support because you know....the META.
The thing is, in another thread, dev mention mod 16 and how these changes will impact the class. My guess is SW will be a healer role and here is why I think that.
Right now the game has two possible tanks classes GF and OP and two possible healer OP and DC. With mod 16 that may change and we may see an added role, dev stated it another thread. Here are my thoughts on where the game is going...
Tank: GF, GWF, and OP Healer: DC, OP and SW New Role Buffer: HR, TR, CW New class with DPS role: DC, GF
I feel what we see now are some minor changes to the game and if the community can let itself open up to the idea of changing the game and allowing us to play more than one singular role the game will expand as will the Q system. The devs will be able to adjust buffs more and debuff and setup the game around 1 real tank with some buffing but not like we see today, 1 healer that provides modest buffing like a tank but not to the level we see now and than 1 buffer that is the primary group member for buffing and debuffing. Last and not least are the two DPS classes that like the tank and healer can bring some buffs and debuff to the table but not like the buffer role.
To achieve such an idea CHANGE has to happen to each class. What we are seeing is part of that change with mod 15. DO DC buffing being reduced and their own personal damage side increased. CW getting reworked. TR getting a buffng type path. SW with additional modification. GF and GWF getting some tweaking and than HR also getting tweaked.
I believe this idea that the devs have not really dived into is still in the work and will require mod 16 to implement and 17 and 18 will be balancing out the DPS and support sides of the classes to ensure that each class and the roles it play are feasible and worth wild to take along in end game content.
I'm all about accepting changes in life and this game simply will change to provide us more as player, it is what many want but when the dev try there are pitchforks and torches at their doorstep than they need to implement such changes. I sometimes join that crew but if we all take a step back and give them the room and time they need they should be able to improve the game for all and not just a select few individuals.
The only thing I dislike about all of mod 15 has been a serious lack of communication. More was need up front about long term plans for the game so we as players would have at least been a bit more on board if we knew the devs were doing these changes for long term changes for us as players.
And if we as players don't like the changes we have option that are not NWO that are available to us as a form of entertainment.
I know I will play less than normal now that the fall shows are airing again.
I don't want to see SW as a healer, it's killing the main essence of the class, like someone said it's Scourge Warlock, not healing Warlock, nurse warlock, band-aid warlock. Always a GF or GWF gonna be a lot better than a warlock as dps, because they can't balance their damage or ours, like i said or they are too powerful or we're too weak. I'm tired of this GWF meta as the only viable dps class, this game has a monopoly of damage and they can't or want to balance. Now they're messing the other dps classes, TR and HR as buff bot slaves for GWFs, it's a nightmare.
1
espasbadfistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 39Arc User
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Do you know how close damage wise the SW, CW and TR are in mod 15? I'm asking to see if these 3 classes damage on the DPS side are similar and if so, how close are we talking about? Also, does the DO DC damage align with these 3 class dps builds?
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
HR are affected in mod 15 we don't need to wait for a future, so the only pure and viable dps class in the game is GWF and maybe GF. Other classes should run as support because you know....the META.
The thing is, in another thread, dev mention mod 16 and how these changes will impact the class. My guess is SW will be a healer role and here is why I think that.
Right now the game has two possible tanks classes GF and OP and two possible healer OP and DC. With mod 16 that may change and we may see an added role, dev stated it another thread. Here are my thoughts on where the game is going...
Tank: GF, GWF, and OP Healer: DC, OP and SW New Role Buffer: HR, TR, CW New class with DPS role: DC, GF
I feel what we see now are some minor changes to the game and if the community can let itself open up to the idea of changing the game and allowing us to play more than one singular role the game will expand as will the Q system. The devs will be able to adjust buffs more and debuff and setup the game around 1 real tank with some buffing but not like we see today, 1 healer that provides modest buffing like a tank but not to the level we see now and than 1 buffer that is the primary group member for buffing and debuffing. Last and not least are the two DPS classes that like the tank and healer can bring some buffs and debuff to the table but not like the buffer role.
To achieve such an idea CHANGE has to happen to each class. What we are seeing is part of that change with mod 15. DO DC buffing being reduced and their own personal damage side increased. CW getting reworked. TR getting a buffng type path. SW with additional modification. GF and GWF getting some tweaking and than HR also getting tweaked.
I believe this idea that the devs have not really dived into is still in the work and will require mod 16 to implement and 17 and 18 will be balancing out the DPS and support sides of the classes to ensure that each class and the roles it play are feasible and worth wild to take along in end game content.
I'm all about accepting changes in life and this game simply will change to provide us more as player, it is what many want but when the dev try there are pitchforks and torches at their doorstep than they need to implement such changes. I sometimes join that crew but if we all take a step back and give them the room and time they need they should be able to improve the game for all and not just a select few individuals.
The only thing I dislike about all of mod 15 has been a serious lack of communication. More was need up front about long term plans for the game so we as players would have at least been a bit more on board if we knew the devs were doing these changes for long term changes for us as players.
And if we as players don't like the changes we have option that are not NWO that are available to us as a form of entertainment.
I know I will play less than normal now that the fall shows are airing again.
Interesting thoughts but i ask myself "What sense does it make?". IMHO every class should have its dedicated job. Tank, Healer, DPS and Buffing. When looking at the queue system that is exactly what is recommend for a normal party - except "Buff" which is kind of undefined up to now and distributed to several other classes, esp. DC, Pala, GF, CW and nowadays SW. In this scheme the only thing that is really missing is a dedicated buffer classe. If introduced it would be meaningful from my point of view to reduce the buffing in other classes and put it into such a dedicated buffer. This separation of competences makes completly sense i think, because there are people who like to do the support part be it healing, mitigating or tanking. Others prefer dealing the damage.
I think it is an abomination if a tank or a healer is going to out dps any class that is dps centric (given same IL, to make things comparable).
And i think for the dps classes there should be only a difference by skill and not by class (same IL). Meaning that a HR, a TR, a CW, a GWF and a SW should be able to do the same amount of damage if they take the dps role in the same party. If a SW runs together with a OP he should profit from the buffs that the OP provides as much as a GWF does. If my SW uses a specific enchantment it should give the same benefit as the GWF has. And if this is not the case there must be a chance that the SW can compensate such differences by other well known means. Same knowledge, same IL and same skill --> same DPS.
My feeling is that this is definetly not true for the current state of the game. Even if i think that great steps have been made - and thanks again to balance for this - there is a lot of work still ahead.
The actual role of Sw class is a support mediocre buff role, nobody see SW as a dps class. I made my warlock as dps, a damage dealer, but i feel cheated because it's description isn't actually the role of SW, devs turn this class a support/healer class and the worst dps class in the game. The actual role of warlocks in a party is to place Pillar of Power and curse to buff other dps classes, we're the puppets in the party.
Do you know how close damage wise the SW, CW and TR are in mod 15? I'm asking to see if these 3 classes damage on the DPS side are similar and if so, how close are we talking about? Also, does the DO DC damage align with these 3 class dps builds?
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
HR are affected in mod 15 we don't need to wait for a future, so the only pure and viable dps class in the game is GWF and maybe GF. Other classes should run as support because you know....the META.
The thing is, in another thread, dev mention mod 16 and how these changes will impact the class. My guess is SW will be a healer role and here is why I think that.
Right now the game has two possible tanks classes GF and OP and two possible healer OP and DC. With mod 16 that may change and we may see an added role, dev stated it another thread. Here are my thoughts on where the game is going...
Tank: GF, GWF, and OP Healer: DC, OP and SW New Role Buffer: HR, TR, CW New class with DPS role: DC, GF
I feel what we see now are some minor changes to the game and if the community can let itself open up to the idea of changing the game and allowing us to play more than one singular role the game will expand as will the Q system. The devs will be able to adjust buffs more and debuff and setup the game around 1 real tank with some buffing but not like we see today, 1 healer that provides modest buffing like a tank but not to the level we see now and than 1 buffer that is the primary group member for buffing and debuffing. Last and not least are the two DPS classes that like the tank and healer can bring some buffs and debuff to the table but not like the buffer role.
To achieve such an idea CHANGE has to happen to each class. What we are seeing is part of that change with mod 15. DO DC buffing being reduced and their own personal damage side increased. CW getting reworked. TR getting a buffng type path. SW with additional modification. GF and GWF getting some tweaking and than HR also getting tweaked.
I believe this idea that the devs have not really dived into is still in the work and will require mod 16 to implement and 17 and 18 will be balancing out the DPS and support sides of the classes to ensure that each class and the roles it play are feasible and worth wild to take along in end game content.
I'm all about accepting changes in life and this game simply will change to provide us more as player, it is what many want but when the dev try there are pitchforks and torches at their doorstep than they need to implement such changes. I sometimes join that crew but if we all take a step back and give them the room and time they need they should be able to improve the game for all and not just a select few individuals.
The only thing I dislike about all of mod 15 has been a serious lack of communication. More was need up front about long term plans for the game so we as players would have at least been a bit more on board if we knew the devs were doing these changes for long term changes for us as players.
And if we as players don't like the changes we have option that are not NWO that are available to us as a form of entertainment.
I know I will play less than normal now that the fall shows are airing again.
Interesting thoughts but i ask myself "What sense does it make?". IMHO every class should have its dedicated job. Tank, Healer, DPS and Buffing. When looking at the queue system that is exactly what is recommend for a normal party - except "Buff" which is kind of undefined up to now and distributed to several other classes, esp. DC, Pala, GF, CW and nowadays SW. In this scheme the only thing that is really missing is a dedicated buffer classe. If introduced it would be meaningful from my point of view to reduce the buffing in other classes and put it into such a dedicated buffer. This separation of competences makes completly sense i think, because there are people who like to do the support part be it healing, mitigating or tanking. Others prefer dealing the damage.
I think it is an abomination if a tank or a healer is going to out dps any class that is dps centric (given same IL, to make things comparable).
And i think for the dps classes there should be only a difference by skill and not by class (same IL). Meaning that a HR, a TR, a CW, a GWF and a SW should be able to do the same amount of damage if they take the dps role in the same party. If a SW runs together with a OP he should profit from the buffs that the OP provides as much as a GWF does. If my SW uses a specific enchantment it should give the same benefit as the GWF has. And if this is not the case there must be a chance that the SW can compensate such differences by other well known means. Same knowledge, same IL and same skill --> same DPS.
My feeling is that this is definetly not true for the current state of the game. Even if i think that great steps have been made - and thanks again to balance for this - there is a lot of work still ahead.
They made it as intended, they made Bloody buff to proc better on GWF and GF, classes like HR or CW can't proc it at all, devs only create this lack of balance to benefit some classes and we, the "other classes" to be a secondary role in this game, feeling the frustration to get kicked or not wanted as dps because we're better as support. They are working to do the same on HRs and TRs, there's no option if you're forced to play support, i'm a 16k warlock and i can't get a party as dps because i'm expected to play as support, when i can see GWFs with less item level playing as main dps, not only because they haven't viable support build, it's beacuse they are a lot better than other classes, TRs got their good spot in mod 14, but devs don't want a class that can compete with GWFs. I can't see a balance when a tank class can be a lot better than a dps class, a 17k GF is better dps than a 17k SW, or CW, etc. They can proc buffs better than us, they have better self buffs, that's not an option to get more roles on classes, when it can contribute to the unbalance, what people wants? a dps GF or a dps SW? the one that have better burst of damage and better procs of course. If we can't change it, we SW gonna play support for a dps DO as main dps for mod 15. Or a HR buffing GFs encounter's damage.
I want to point out that NWO was based originally off 4e rules but is slowly moving to 5e. I know that was stated by a dev a while back. I know the average build for a warlock in 5e is DPS; however, you can create a warlock healer for your group in 5e as well.
NWO has to modify how the rules are applied to the game and due to this NWO is a bit different than 4e or 5e rules. But like the pen and paper game a warlock in NWO can be a DPS or healer. So no issues from my point of view if the devs want the warlock to be a healer and a DPS.
Since NWO is a bit different and a MMO game all damage classes should be able to produce similar damage over a set amount of time. Over say 30 seconds all classes should be able to produce like damage. What is frustrating is that GWF and GF can produce much more damage over a shorter time frame than other classes, say in the first 10 seconds and that is where these classes surpass other classes as that is all the time that is needed to clear out a set of adds and on bosses with the right buffs, the damage of a GF/GWF goes up further making them even more potent.
If NWO had a buff soft and hard cap than we would see damage balance out due to classes that self buff would receive a smaller % or no increase from the buffers in the group making self buffing class damage lower and close the gap between classes would shrink.
As for being able to play as a healer and a DPS that will provide the warlock more options. No one is forcing you to play as a healer. That is a choice you can make in the game but having it as an option is just that an option. Just like OP they can play as a healer or tank and no one can force any OP to play one way or another.
As someone who likes the ability to play a DPS or support on my characters I'm liking the way the devs are making this change.
As for balance, hopefully mod 16 as they expand roles and the Q system they continue to try to balance out the classes.
My only gripe with any type of balancing in a game is if the devs play the game and play a specific class that class tends to be a bit stronger than other damage dealing classes. That has been an ongoing issue I see in many MMOs. I hope this development team is not doing this and if they are they are only hurting themselves and the overall game. Yeah you want your class to be a strong DPS but you should realize that as a developer the job is about making it so that all classes can play as a DPS and do the job of providing damage to clear content equally.
The problem also comes in if you have a group working on the classes and if one of the devs is unwavering in willing to change the damage side of an over powered class than that falls on management to step and and enforce the change.
I hate to say but I have a feeling we will see the higher damaging classes taking a damage adjustment come mod 16 when they get modified for their 2nd role.
I finished my tests on SW (alone and in buff party) and i have to say : it's a great step in the right direction !
First of all : AoE dps is really nice now ! You did a great job when speeding up animations.
- GoH is now playable and does really good damages - MF doesn't add a lot in AoE but it's always good to take - Curse Bite was already good but is now really strong ! I didn't think 2 charges would change a lot but it does ! Plus, it procs AoC twice per cast so... It's a great addition !
I got best results in HB with GoH, PoP, FB, CB and 1 or 2 HR to hit lasts mobs.
This is a parse of the thrash mobs at the beginning of ToNG.
Then : Single target dps
On a long fight, we can now do the same dps than a Conqueror GF (yeah one of those that can 3 shots the whole game) so... we are good. Problem is : this game is all about burst and not long fights. I don't think Creeping death is the problem. 6 seconds to deal full damage is okay. The biggest problem, for me, and lots of other SW is that we deal huge damage too late in a fight due to KF mechanic.
If we compare this mechanic to the GWF's IBS, paired with Executionner's style feat, IBS always deals its full damage but gets buffed as the target's health diminishes. This feat also buffs Sure Strike (so it buffs every damage a GWF deals on bosses). SW also has a similar feat (Executionner's gift) but it only gives 15% as target's health diminishes. GWF gets 30%.
My suggestions are : - Get rid of the KF buff mechanic and make it always deal its full damage. - Rework Dark Prayers useless class feature that nobody uses to : "Your single target powers deal 5% more damage as the target's health diminishes. (+5%/+5%/+50% more damage to Lesser Curse)
This would help a little bit to tackle the 2 SW remaining issues : useless class features and lack of selfbuff.
Dps parses of GF and SW on Ras Nsi, in an under buffed party, where we had both time to deal our full damage.
And finally : Damnation path
In one word : it's not worth it.
Soul investiture is too long to stack (on ToNG 2nd boss, you get your full stacks when you already took 1/4 of the boss health, when playing as only dps...) and it's not even reliable on the long term because you lose stacks after 20 seconds. Plus, Wraith Claw dps stays inferior to Creeping Death. Even with Spiritfire (that scales really well) and 50% buff on your encounters, it's not strong enough to beat what Fury path brings to us.
Suggestions : - Make Soul Investiture stacks able to refresh instead of losing them after 20 seconds. - Make Soul Puppet inherit the SW's crit severity - Make Soul desecration spawn a Soul puppet when SW applies Warlock's curse instead of when it removes it. This way, we could get the first stacks a little bit faster.
Why allow more time, when balancing is an essential and basic mandatory requirement for actual games?
Why allow more time, when SW was already bugged and unbalanced since it's creation (many years)?
Why allow more time, when staff have absolutly no idead where they are going?
Complete agreement. I think anyone excusing the devs as having some master plan ignore the past history. Balancing didn't just start for M15. They've been trying to balance the game for years now. And @mebengalsfan#9264 preaches patience to us and states things like more balancing coming in M16 and then 17 & 18 for adjustments. Let's not forget they've now lost the dev that handled the current balancing. As history has taught us, there is probably no documentation left for the other devs to pick up if something goes awry.
I don't know about most of you but 4+ years to balance the game seems ridiculous to me (taking into account the time spent on balancing the classes already and then adding M15 & 16 and if they do need 2 more mods to tweak further).
I get that change and tweaking is a necessity but waiting for mod releases to get class balancing is ridiculous. Balancing should be an ongoing game function that gets patched as bugs/etc get located and fixed. Obviously a major rework of all classes is a beast of it's own so I'm really talking about the way they've handled balancing up to this point.
@schietindebux Actually, dps hasn't been nerfed. It hasn't really been buffed either. On live, you can already match the dps of a conq GF, in HB, on CR in a party that completes the run in 20 min. Why ? Because you gain damage on AoE and bosses are long enough for you to deal full damage. MF is a nice addition but the biggest one is just animations speeded up. And this alone nearly covers the loss of the Hadar's bug.
For Sparks, as KC and CP crit, you're always full sparks. It's as fast as it is on live.
And yes, conq GF will always have more utility than a dps SW. I'm not against GF dealing damage but I think it shouldn't be able to do it while slotting ITF. But it's an other topic
Comments
This may be more correct.....
And yes, I am basically bad.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
That's why a lot of people are saying the class is unbalanced with a very strong need to fix the damage dealt parts of both the Hellbringer and Soul Binder paragons. Even the name, 'Hellbringer', what part of that implies buffs and healing?
So please, no more talk about changing the class to a healer or a full support class. That is not what the SW is meant to do. And if that is what you want your toon to be, make a Paladin or Cleric.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
waiting for a fair dialogue and feedback on companies side to solve open issues, until then no more support from my side.
Suggestion: If a soul puppet attacks a target effected by TC, it's damage should also be shared.
These are all things to consider that maybe the DPS side of the game is being brought down and other classes like HR, GF and GWF have not been hit but maybe hit in the future. Just a thought.
waiting for a fair dialogue and feedback on companies side to solve open issues, until then no more support from my side.
I think all this suggestions, proposals about what should be changed to balance SW, what should be done right now to make SW as playable DPS class, which can stand in the one line with GWF and GF, or at least with HR are useless.
There is no way that someone from balance team read this and realise that they should change their changelog, buff class and etc.
Balance team has its own vision how balance should look like, and if the decide to make SW the worst class in the game they will do this.
And we can not do anything with this. None of the Cryptic team is interested in our feedback about this changelog, they only interested in making money, and until tons of people donate a lot of money, situation won't change. They can say a lot of beatiful words about how much they want to create balanced game which everyone would like to enjoy, but it is only words. The reality says that you should play only on GWF if you want to do damage. You have no choice.
So you can ask support team to take a look on this forum, this thread, this suggestions about improving SW gameplay, but, you must realise that they don't care about these.
So, in a few words:
- no one want to hear you
- no one will here you
- no one won't care about what you are writing here
- no one is thinking about your current game experience
btw, even if they will listen to community, a lot of time is required to implement, test and release new changes. So even if someone care about us, we cannot expect improvements in the nearest future.Thank you for few minutes which you dedicated to read this comment, and have a nice day.
All hail Cryptic!
Right now the game has two possible tanks classes GF and OP and two possible healer OP and DC. With mod 16 that may change and we may see an added role, dev stated it another thread. Here are my thoughts on where the game is going...
Tank: GF, GWF, and OP
Healer: DC, OP and SW
New Role Buffer: HR, TR, CW
New class with DPS role: DC, GF
I feel what we see now are some minor changes to the game and if the community can let itself open up to the idea of changing the game and allowing us to play more than one singular role the game will expand as will the Q system. The devs will be able to adjust buffs more and debuff and setup the game around 1 real tank with some buffing but not like we see today, 1 healer that provides modest buffing like a tank but not to the level we see now and than 1 buffer that is the primary group member for buffing and debuffing. Last and not least are the two DPS classes that like the tank and healer can bring some buffs and debuff to the table but not like the buffer role.
To achieve such an idea CHANGE has to happen to each class. What we are seeing is part of that change with mod 15. DO DC buffing being reduced and their own personal damage side increased. CW getting reworked. TR getting a buffng type path. SW with additional modification. GF and GWF getting some tweaking and than HR also getting tweaked.
I believe this idea that the devs have not really dived into is still in the work and will require mod 16 to implement and 17 and 18 will be balancing out the DPS and support sides of the classes to ensure that each class and the roles it play are feasible and worth wild to take along in end game content.
I'm all about accepting changes in life and this game simply will change to provide us more as player, it is what many want but when the dev try there are pitchforks and torches at their doorstep than they need to implement such changes. I sometimes join that crew but if we all take a step back and give them the room and time they need they should be able to improve the game for all and not just a select few individuals.
The only thing I dislike about all of mod 15 has been a serious lack of communication. More was need up front about long term plans for the game so we as players would have at least been a bit more on board if we knew the devs were doing these changes for long term changes for us as players.
And if we as players don't like the changes we have option that are not NWO that are available to us as a form of entertainment.
I know I will play less than normal now that the fall shows are airing again.
I think it is an abomination if a tank or a healer is going to out dps any class that is dps centric (given same IL, to make things comparable).
And i think for the dps classes there should be only a difference by skill and not by class (same IL). Meaning that a HR, a TR, a CW, a GWF and a SW should be able to do the same amount of damage if they take the dps role in the same party. If a SW runs together with a OP he should profit from the buffs that the OP provides as much as a GWF does. If my SW uses a specific enchantment it should give the same benefit as the GWF has. And if this is not the case there must be a chance that the SW can compensate such differences by other well known means. Same knowledge, same IL and same skill --> same DPS.
My feeling is that this is definetly not true for the current state of the game. Even if i think that great steps have been made - and thanks again to balance for this - there is a lot of work still ahead.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
- Why allow more time, when balancing is an essential and basic mandatory requirement for actual games?
- Why allow more time, when SW was already bugged and unbalanced since it's creation (many years)?
- Why allow more time, when staff have absolutly no idead where they are going?
Deals are dues to devils, not to those poor warlocks...NWO has to modify how the rules are applied to the game and due to this NWO is a bit different than 4e or 5e rules. But like the pen and paper game a warlock in NWO can be a DPS or healer. So no issues from my point of view if the devs want the warlock to be a healer and a DPS.
Since NWO is a bit different and a MMO game all damage classes should be able to produce similar damage over a set amount of time. Over say 30 seconds all classes should be able to produce like damage. What is frustrating is that GWF and GF can produce much more damage over a shorter time frame than other classes, say in the first 10 seconds and that is where these classes surpass other classes as that is all the time that is needed to clear out a set of adds and on bosses with the right buffs, the damage of a GF/GWF goes up further making them even more potent.
If NWO had a buff soft and hard cap than we would see damage balance out due to classes that self buff would receive a smaller % or no increase from the buffers in the group making self buffing class damage lower and close the gap between classes would shrink.
As for being able to play as a healer and a DPS that will provide the warlock more options. No one is forcing you to play as a healer. That is a choice you can make in the game but having it as an option is just that an option. Just like OP they can play as a healer or tank and no one can force any OP to play one way or another.
As someone who likes the ability to play a DPS or support on my characters I'm liking the way the devs are making this change.
As for balance, hopefully mod 16 as they expand roles and the Q system they continue to try to balance out the classes.
My only gripe with any type of balancing in a game is if the devs play the game and play a specific class that class tends to be a bit stronger than other damage dealing classes. That has been an ongoing issue I see in many MMOs. I hope this development team is not doing this and if they are they are only hurting themselves and the overall game. Yeah you want your class to be a strong DPS but you should realize that as a developer the job is about making it so that all classes can play as a DPS and do the job of providing damage to clear content equally.
The problem also comes in if you have a group working on the classes and if one of the devs is unwavering in willing to change the damage side of an over powered class than that falls on management to step and and enforce the change.
I hate to say but I have a feeling we will see the higher damaging classes taking a damage adjustment come mod 16 when they get modified for their 2nd role.
First of all : AoE dps is really nice now ! You did a great job when speeding up animations.
- GoH is now playable and does really good damages
- MF doesn't add a lot in AoE but it's always good to take
- Curse Bite was already good but is now really strong ! I didn't think 2 charges would change a lot but it does ! Plus, it procs AoC twice per cast so... It's a great addition !
I got best results in HB with GoH, PoP, FB, CB and 1 or 2 HR to hit lasts mobs.
This is a parse of the thrash mobs at the beginning of ToNG.
Then : Single target dps
On a long fight, we can now do the same dps than a Conqueror GF (yeah one of those that can 3 shots the whole game) so... we are good.
Problem is : this game is all about burst and not long fights.
I don't think Creeping death is the problem. 6 seconds to deal full damage is okay.
The biggest problem, for me, and lots of other SW is that we deal huge damage too late in a fight due to KF mechanic.
If we compare this mechanic to the GWF's IBS, paired with Executionner's style feat, IBS always deals its full damage but gets buffed as the target's health diminishes. This feat also buffs Sure Strike (so it buffs every damage a GWF deals on bosses).
SW also has a similar feat (Executionner's gift) but it only gives 15% as target's health diminishes. GWF gets 30%.
My suggestions are :
- Get rid of the KF buff mechanic and make it always deal its full damage.
- Rework Dark Prayers useless class feature that nobody uses to : "Your single target powers deal 5% more damage as the target's health diminishes. (+5%/+5%/+50% more damage to Lesser Curse)
This would help a little bit to tackle the 2 SW remaining issues : useless class features and lack of selfbuff.
Dps parses of GF and SW on Ras Nsi, in an under buffed party, where we had both time to deal our full damage.
And finally : Damnation path
In one word : it's not worth it.
Soul investiture is too long to stack (on ToNG 2nd boss, you get your full stacks when you already took 1/4 of the boss health, when playing as only dps...) and it's not even reliable on the long term because you lose stacks after 20 seconds.
Plus, Wraith Claw dps stays inferior to Creeping Death. Even with Spiritfire (that scales really well) and 50% buff on your encounters, it's not strong enough to beat what Fury path brings to us.
Suggestions :
- Make Soul Investiture stacks able to refresh instead of losing them after 20 seconds.
- Make Soul Puppet inherit the SW's crit severity
- Make Soul desecration spawn a Soul puppet when SW applies Warlock's curse instead of when it removes it. This way, we could get the first stacks a little bit faster.
waiting for a fair dialogue and feedback on companies side to solve open issues, until then no more support from my side.
I don't know about most of you but 4+ years to balance the game seems ridiculous to me (taking into account the time spent on balancing the classes already and then adding M15 & 16 and if they do need 2 more mods to tweak further).
I get that change and tweaking is a necessity but waiting for mod releases to get class balancing is ridiculous. Balancing should be an ongoing game function that gets patched as bugs/etc get located and fixed. Obviously a major rework of all classes is a beast of it's own so I'm really talking about the way they've handled balancing up to this point.
waiting for a fair dialogue and feedback on companies side to solve open issues, until then no more support from my side.
waiting for a fair dialogue and feedback on companies side to solve open issues, until then no more support from my side.
On live, you can already match the dps of a conq GF, in HB, on CR in a party that completes the run in 20 min.
Why ? Because you gain damage on AoE and bosses are long enough for you to deal full damage.
MF is a nice addition but the biggest one is just animations speeded up. And this alone nearly covers the loss of the Hadar's bug.
For Sparks, as KC and CP crit, you're always full sparks. It's as fast as it is on live.
And yes, conq GF will always have more utility than a dps SW. I'm not against GF dealing damage but I think it shouldn't be able to do it while slotting ITF. But it's an other topic