M15: Scourge Warlock Class Changes

balanced

Hey Scourge Warlocks,

Scourge Warlock has historically had some clunky gameplay issues with power rotations and long animation times. A good amount of powers have been re-tuned to be slightly faster and to chain into other powers in a more smooth way. There were also interactions, like with Warlock’s Curse, where trying to use another power while one was activating would cause the initial power to be canceled before it was cast.

Other than animation times, we wanted to spend some time cleaning up the Damnation tree and really focusing on the Soul Puppet for the theme of that build. Along with this came many improvements to the Soul Puppet and how it interacts with the warlock, which can be seen below.

For Damnation, we really wanted to focus on making a viable Soul Puppet encounter based build. We also wanted to make Soul Puppet more reliable at lower levels, and just in general. To do this, we have made it so that the Soul Puppet no longer dissipates after 5 attacks and instead does so after 20 seconds. This time also does not count down while you are not in combat and summoning another soul puppet refreshes the duration of your current one and heals it to full. This should make your Soul Puppet much easier to maintain and a lot more manageable to keep alive.

We also saw some bugs, weird behaviors, or player requests in powers that we wanted to touch on and get fixed. Killing Flames was a common complaint in that it didn’t do enough damage against high health targets. As a result, it now deals less damage based on the target’s current health, but hits harder at a baseline. Other powers, like Brood of Hadar, have had small adjustments in an attempt to fix a bug (but let us know if it’s still happening!).

Animation Changes

• Warlock's Curse: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Killing Flames: Activate time slightly reduced
• Killing Flames: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Dreadtheft: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Fiery Bolt: Activation time slightly reduced
• Curse Bite: Activation time slightly reduced
• Curse Bite: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Soul Scorch: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Harrowstorm: Activation time slightly reduced
• Harrowstorm: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Wraith's Shadow: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Wraith's Shadow: No Longer shows a cast bar when used
• Warlock's Bargain: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Hadar's Grasp: Activation time slightly increased
• Hadar's Grasp: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Blades of Vanquished Armies: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Accursed Souls: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Flames of Phlegethos: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Tyrannical Curse: Now has priority in being cast, will not be interrupted by other powers
• Gates of Hell: Activation time reduced

Soul Puppet Changes:

• Soul Puppet: Duration reduced to 20 seconds.
• This time now only counts down while in combat
• Soul Puppet: No longer vanishes after 5 attacks
• Soul Puppet: Summoning another Soul Puppet will now refresh the duration of the current Soul Puppet and heal it to full.
• Soul Puppet: Now gains Critical Strike chance equal to your critical strike chance
• Soul Puppet: Now has a base critical severity rating of 50%
• Soul Puppet: Attacks can now critically strike

Powers:

• Killing Flames: Base damage increased by 20%
• Killing Flames: Damage based on hit points reduced to 2x damage when the target is at/below 25% hit points (from 2.4x)
• Fiery Bolt: No longer deals increased damage to enemies around the application target
• Fiery Bolt: Damage increased by ~20%
• Hadar's Grasp: Damage increased by ~20%
• Hadar's Grasp: Base duration increased to 2 seconds (up from 1.5)
• Hadar's Grasp: Rank-up duration reduced to 0.5s (down from 1s)
• Hadar's Grasp (Curse Consume): Duration changed to be +1.5s (instead of +50%)
• Hadar's Grasp (Curse Consume): Curse and Soul Puppet damage increased to 25% (up from 15%)
• Immolation Spirits: Removed a 1-2 second delay that would cause the spirits to delay their initial attacks
• Immolation Spirits: Fixed an issue where these would deal increased damage in certain cases
• Brood of Hadar: Fixed an issue where these would deal increased damage in certain cases
• Curse Bite: This power now has 2 charges
• Dreadtheft: Fixed an issue where Dreadtheft would deal 0 damage multiple times
• Dreadtheft: Fixed an issue where Dreadtheft would not allow you to use powers for a small period of time after it was finished being cast
• Dreadtheft: No longer allows you to sometimes activate other powers while casting
• Dreadtheft: Activating and cancelling this power should now be much more responsive
• Dreadtheft: Now deals damage 10 times (down from 12)
• Dreadtheft: Damage increased by 20%

Class Feats:

• All-consuming Curse: Critical Strikes now apply lesser Curse 100% of the time (at rank 1)
• All-consuming Curse: Now increases Lesser Curse damage by 20%
• All-consuming Curse: Now increases Lesser Curse damage by 10% per rank

Feats:

Damnation:

• Warding Spirits (reworked): Now causes 5/10/15/20/25% of the damage you take to be transferred to your Soul Puppet
• Warding Spirits: Now increases your Soul Puppet's maximum hit points by 10/20/30/40/50% of your maximum hit points
• Note: Having 5 points in this feat means that your Soul Puppet has as much Maximum Health as you do
• Mocking Spirit: No longer increases the Maximum hit points of your Soul Puppet
• Mocking Spirit: The damage Resistance of your Soul Puppet is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%
• Spiritfire: This feat can now critically strike
• Spiritfire: This feat should now correctly scale with power / damage bonuses
• Spiritfire: Damage reduced to 5/10/15/20/25% (from 15/30/45/60/75%)
• Soul Desecration (Reworked): Your Soul Puppet no longer dissipates after 20 seconds and its attacks now recharge your encounter powers by 1 second on each hit. Your Warlock's Curse now corrupts targets, causing them to spawn a Soul Puppet when killed and when Warlock's Curse is Consumed. Soul Investiture now increase your encounter power damage by 10% per stack. Additionally, if you do not have a Soul Puppet active, you will automatically summon one, this effect has a 15 second cooldown.

Fury:

• Murderous Flames: Now causes your fire-based single target at-will and encounter powers to deal 5/10/15/20/25% of their damage to all enemies (split equally) within 20 feet of the primary target. Does not trigger from DoT effects.
• Powers included: Killing Flames, Infernal Sphere, Hellish Rebuke, Soul Scorch, Eldritch Blast

daaaqe

Still no self buff? FoE definitely need to be %rdmg bonus instead of % resistance debuff
Well... Was hoping for more

onewingedmenace

THANK YOU for these changes, I was so sad when I had to stop using my damnation build.. very grateful for any changes!

Unknown

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daaaqe

scorpioneitaa said:

daaaqe#8284 said:

Still no self buff? FoE definitely need to be %rdmg bonus instead of % resistance debuff
Well... Was hoping for more

Fury:

Murderous Flames: Now causes your fire-based single target at-will and encounter powers to deal 5/10/15/20/25% of their damage to all enemies (split equally) within 20 feet of the primary target. Does not trigger from DoT effects.


This is your self buff. I know you have trouble with a bunch of basic stuff.




@balanced#2849 Can you also consider reducing soul scorch animation time by 0.5s? </p>

Ntm fdp
This is an aoe effect you mong

strykr75601

daaaqe#8284 said:

Still no self buff? FoE definitely need to be %rdmg bonus instead of % resistance debuff
Well... Was hoping for more

Soul Investiture now increase your encounter power damage by 10% per stack.


There is your self buff. 50% buff, too

daaaqe

strykr75601 said:

daaaqe#8284 said:

Still no self buff? FoE definitely need to be %rdmg bonus instead of % resistance debuff
Well... Was hoping for more

Soul Investiture now increase your encounter power damage by 10% per stack.


There is your self buff. 50% buff, too

Decent with SB only then

daaaqe

daaaqe#8284 said:

strykr75601 said:

daaaqe#8284 said:

Still no self buff? FoE definitely need to be %rdmg bonus instead of % resistance debuff
Well... Was hoping for more

Soul Investiture now increase your encounter power damage by 10% per stack.


There is your self buff. 50% buff, too

Decent with SB only then

Encounter only tho.. idk let's see

lordtweety

While I was hoping for a boost that would put SWs on a par with other DPS classes, this is hopefully an advance in that direction. I'll see for myself once I launch into preview. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to playing around with the soul puppet again.

vorphied

lordtweety#3604 said:

While I was hoping for a boost that would put SWs on a par with other DPS classes, this is hopefully an advance in that direction. I'll see for myself once I launch into preview. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to playing around with the soul puppet again.

The Soul Puppet business is interesting. Not so much because of the Soul Puppet itself, but because of the increase in damage to Encounters from Soul Investiture. I'm curious to see what our resident spreadsheet gurus come up with in comparing the Damnation overhaul and the further-tweaked Fury tree.

azazel

Definitely a step in the right direction, I was hoping for more but these changes should make Sw a viable dps again (I'm hoping).

zeatrex

I pretty much play SW to hang around with my partner in crime > Mr. Soul Puppet, so this is a huge plus for me so far.... Hopefully it is as good in-game than it is on text.

lordtweety

First thoughts, I'm liking the tweaks to FB, KF and TC, the response times are noticeably improved. I haven't run any trackers (ACT) to see what damage difference this has made to my fury build but any reduction in casting time is going to be an increase. I'm yet to make another damnation build to test but might do tomorrow. So far so good though.

darkzod

I ran with Tracker(ACT) and found that Combat Advantage is no longer possible. Will be triggered to 0%. Please fix the Bug.

The weapon enchantment (Weapon Damage) is even worse than before?

espasbadfist

Dear @balanced#2849 , thank you very much for all of this. I am quite sure that damantion will get really powerfull with all those changes. Allowing the puppet to crit and giving it full buffs will be going to be amazing imho. I really thought that you had have forgotten us a bit, but it seems that you used the time well. There is only that one thing that i like to get looked at in more detail and maybe there is a kind of misconception on my side, but maybe other could support my point: i have the strong fealing, that murderous flames not really is a buff but only an additional AoE. My impression is that those 30% (nowadays) are subtracted from the initial hit and then spreaded to the surrounding or given to that single target again as stated in the tooltip. Maybe i am wrong but i really would like to get a confirmation that it was really intended to make damage greater and not only redistribute it.
But as said: after all great work i think, making me looking gladly at the things that are up to come.

tom

is there more coming? seems okish but wish there would be some more changes to Fury aswell

darkzod

Why is Hellish Rebuke declined? 10k damage instead of 40k damage.

Many Powers and Talens have no or very low Critical Strike chance. (Murderous Flames, creeping death etc.)

The weapon damage from the weapon enchantment is even worse. There are too few trigger.....

mebengalsfan

My CW is done and I will be moving my enchantments over to my sw.

habeeb

Can u give sw combat advantage wen the puppet is summoned?

Thank u

ibz4ez

So I've just come off from doing a lot of testing with the new changes to SW. I'm actually going to make a video on these changes because they are legion.

But to summarise, the buffs are just not that strong. Instead of pushing the SW back into HDPS category you've just moved the damnation tree into the same damage tables as Fury - which is great don't get me wrong that featline was beyond useless before this update. But like many have said and will continue to say the lack of self buffing (and stacking self buff) mechanics are hitting this class hard.

My main criticism is of the new feature: Soul Investure.
- This is too hard to gain quick stacks of this buff, especially when fighting against dungeon bosses.
- Suggested change: Gain a stack of Soul Investure every time your soul puppet attacks.
- Add 6 stacks (up from 5)

Other criticisms:
- The power killing flames still does not do very much damage against targets with more than 25% HP.
- And to make things worse, instead of hitting millions of damage when a target had 1% HP, all the way through >25% HP the target takes around 400k damage at best. Which is underpowered by quite some amount.
- Suggested change: buff the baseline of the power by another 20%. + When targets get to 25% HP buff the power by another 40% damage.

Unknown

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slyef

The changes look decent so far.

However there is a BUG in the new Damnation Capstone that may hinder its viability:

When you are at 5 stacks, you can no longer refresh the buff duration
This means that when you reach 5 stacks, you loose all your stacks 20 seconds later.

And is it just me or the Big Dummy in Port Nyanzaru has trouble regenerating health ?

jaime4312

@balanced

Killing Flames:

Still very, very underwhelming, the disparity between min and max damage values remains extreme, it will continue to be a pea shooter for ~70% of a fight. You need to see it like this: we need it to consistently hit hard and that is not going to happen if min - max damage values are so drastically apart (+ ×2 times, I mean, just wow) and it's necessary to have enemy at 25% hp to even reach max damage. That encounter power is supoosed to be our "nuke" but with those limitations left unaddressed yet, how is it supposed to fulfill its purpose. Those mod 15 tweaks do not address the issues that power has therefore Killing Flames will continue to be a joke, hopefully you'll do something about it.

Min damage value needs to be close to max one and hp - damage mechanic needs to go, this encounger is gimped so hard I don't understand why you left its 2 very worst issues unaddressed. Could you tell us why you chose to keep Killing Flames like that even though it's one of the very reasons is inconsistent and underperforming? It literary is the only dps encounter power in the game with such horrible features, it isn't like its max damage value is anything special at all to justify its laughable performance during most of a fight o.O

By the way, Killing Flames changes vs Disintegrate changes... wow, that CW encounter is what KF should have always been...

KF: you can only reach max damage (not extra damage bonuses) when enemy is at 25% hp.

Disintegrate: You hit x2/x3 *times* harder when the enemy is at 25% hp or below.

Is there any chance KF will ever be truly addressed? At least having min - max damage values close to each other and without hp penalty.


SI stacks:

There should be a way to gain them faster, like the poster above said, maybe making the puppet grant one per hit? Otherwise, it will take a while to get the 5 stacks.

Please take a look at what @slyef#6396 said, it's terrible that, once you get the 5 stacks, they simply cannot be refreshed so you lose the buff after 25 seconds.

Puppet:

Needs to be cc immune (at least in pve) otherwise it will get controlled left and right like it does in mod 14.

It would be good if you tweak it so it benefits from player buffs (BtS, Fray, Longstrider's...), that way, it will deal decent damage, consider that Divine Oracle dc is a goner in mod 15 so it isn't like puppet could potentially be buffed to the moon. Or at least please consider increasing its critical severity to 75% - 100% or so. Hmm or why not having the same critical severity as the SW?

Class features:

I thought you were going to tweak a few of them (instead of only ACC). Perhaps at least you can change Flames of Empowerment from a Damage Resistance debuff to a buff? And one of SB (or an universal one) too for another +% damage buff? As you set it, the class will continue to be lacking in this regard.

eclipseblood

I like the increase to the base damage of killing flames but I do agree with @jaime4312#3760 . At 25% HP its usually much easier to burn compared to the beginning of the fight as most dps usually have feats that let them deal more damage as the targets HP diminishes. Maybe change it so that we sacrifice 25% of our HP and in return we deal our max damage with killing flames. warlocks bargain has a similar mechanic to it, sw is usually life steal heavy anyways so this could be a cool mechanic to implement.

jaime4312

@balanced#2849

Update on daylies and why you should tweak at least one of them for balance's sake:

Gates of Hell: Multipurpose daily which situationally is aoe damage king (for SW of course), deals respectable single target damage and knocks non - cc immune targets prone, it's one the best you can use in pvp and imo the most versatile one the class has.

Brood of Hadar: Most damaging daily vs 1 target, meh aoe damage, good cc and it has a relatively fast casting time.

Flames of Phlegethos: Gets outperformed by the aforementioned powers at one or several things so, aside from the looks, technically there isn't a reason to use it; it is worth noting it does not have cc capabilities whatsoever and its casting time is longer than that of Brood of Hadar. Considering this daily is nowhere near as versatile as both GoH and BoH, it is only reasonable to expect it should be able to outperform them at least at 1 thing and significantly, that one thing should be damage vs 1 target.

We could agree versatile powers shouldn't be the best at everything, right? But, please don't get the wrong idea, you shouldn't nerf GoH and BoH... just consider tweaking Flames of Phlegethos so, the very thing it can do, damage, significantly outperforms that of any other.

Think about it: No cc whatsoever, slower casting time, takes longer to deal full damage and it doesn't generate multiple soulsparks like Immolation Spirits can (so it should be much more powerful than it as well), why wouldn't it be our hardest hitting power then? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Imo, its damage should be ~35% higher than that of Brood of Hadar, it is a good good trade-off in my opinion, it gives it a purpose and a reason to be slotted.

I don't know you, but having mostly 1-2 daylies used for everything doesn't sound right to me, powers that specialize at doing 1 thing or that can only do 1 thing efficiently shouldn't be outperformed by... multipurpose powers.

Hopefully you'll consider this feedback to give Flames of Phlegethos the tweaks that balance and common sense require.

eclipseblood

Overall, these changes are excellent and a great step in the right direction. Something we've all been waiting a long time for. We probably won't get anymore changes until mod 16 at least but I will definitely be looking forward to them. Tyvm and keep up the good work @balanced#2849

vorphied

Side note: I think it's safe to gauge the relative engagement and contentment from the SW community by the comparative lack of replies in this thread at this early stage. I'm sure we'll continue to have things to complain about, but initial outlook is favorable.

You can guess at a glance which classes' adjustments are more contentious by the multiple pages of feedback within 24 hours.

Also, @jaime4312 is completely on point. Flames of Phlegethos has nothing going for it, not even a niche application.

rodosto

I've tried a new build with this changes in theory with my mind and came up with this...

I've liked Soulbinder alot...

All Consuming Curse + Snuff Out / Deadly Curse or Borrowed Time... Warding Curse is also nice option too. I've tried all and found that Deadly Curse is good if you're Human and added the 3 bonus feats into the Deadly/Lesser Curse damage.

Soul Scorch, Killing Flames, Hadar's Grasp...

Soul Scorch and Killing Flames with Fury build deals AOE damage so loss of Pillar of Power from the Hellbringer doesnt hurts the feels. Hadar's Grasp is just there for obvious reasons. If going AoE, Fiery Bolt is nice.

Immolations Spirits / Brood is nice.

But with Damnation tree, Soul Scorch will go insane because its encounter power and its also has zero cooldown. Stacking the Encounter damage is no problem. You dont need recovery at all. Soul Puppet takes care of it. Hadar's Grasp and Killing Flames now also useful because of Soul Puppet.

Soul Scorch / Hadar's Grasp removes the curses so your Soul Puppet basically become immortal cause everytime you remove the curse, you heal puppet to max hp. And All consuming curse adds Lesser Curses... It's not so hard to apply new curse however.

Your At-will become irrevelant because of non stop using the Encounters. For the Soul Spark generation, you need crits so HG is a nice source for the sparks.

Also Soul Puppet takes the aggro so Fiery Bolt for AoE play also good instead of Killing Flames.

This is theory so i'll test out when patch hits official.

vorphied

I still wouldn't bother with Soulbinder for AoE. Hellbringer AoE is much more streamlined and effective with PoP and access to Gates of Hell.

Soulbinder is still my preferred single-target spec, however. I'm excited about the synergy with Damnation, but the Soul Investiture drop-off isn't necessary, and I hope it'll be fixed.

Yes, you can reach a point (even now) where you no longer require At-Wills as Soulbinder. You will still need Recovery even with the Damnation capstone; you don't get enough reduction on your encounters to maintain sparks indefinitely with the Soul Puppet alone.

rodosto

vorphied said:

I still wouldn't bother with Soulbinder for AoE. Hellbringer AoE is much more streamlined and effective with PoP and access to Gates of Hell.

Soulbinder is still my preferred single-target spec, however. I'm excited about the synergy with Damnation, but the Soul Investiture drop-off isn't necessary, and I hope it'll be fixed.

Yes, you can reach a point (even now) where you no longer require At-Wills as Soulbinder. You will still need Recovery even with the Damnation capstone; you don't get enough reduction on your encounters to maintain sparks indefinitely with the Soul Puppet alone.

Its just a theory so things will change of course. I do not like staying in the melee range for effective use of the Pillar of Power. For soloing stuff, of course PoP and Gates makes easy stuff but i just want to use SB build effectively around the Curses+Puppet+Encounters+Soul Sparks. Apply and consuming curses to maximize damage even just cursing deals better damage:

Class Feats:
All-consuming Curse: Critical Strikes now apply lesser Curse 100% of the time (at rank 1)
All-consuming Curse: Now increases Lesser Curse damage by 20%
All-consuming Curse: Now increases Lesser Curse damage by 10% per rank

Of course we need Recovery. But we need half of the required or maybe abit higher. That makes this stat is not as useful as others. We need to see it to adjust our playstyles when it hits to game.

We dont need to spam Soul Scorch like now because now we can use HG and KF effectively with puppet. Which is better damage with KF and HG. We can simply use HG as a non stop DoT on the target. It deals fast damage and crits. It's like 3+ sparks per second. Not to mention animation changes. Both KF and HG's animations now faster and we are not gonna waste a Soul Scorch anymore.

vorphied

rodosto said:

vorphied said:

I still wouldn't bother with Soulbinder for AoE. Hellbringer AoE is much more streamlined and effective with PoP and access to Gates of Hell.

Soulbinder is still my preferred single-target spec, however. I'm excited about the synergy with Damnation, but the Soul Investiture drop-off isn't necessary, and I hope it'll be fixed.

Yes, you can reach a point (even now) where you no longer require At-Wills as Soulbinder. You will still need Recovery even with the Damnation capstone; you don't get enough reduction on your encounters to maintain sparks indefinitely with the Soul Puppet alone.

Its just a theory so things will change of course. I do not like staying in the melee range for effective use of the Pillar of Power. For soloing stuff, of course PoP and Gates makes easy stuff but i just want to use SB build effectively around the Curses+Puppet+Encounters+Soul Sparks. Apply and consuming curses to maximize damage even just cursing deals better damage:

Class Feats:
All-consuming Curse: Critical Strikes now apply lesser Curse 100% of the time (at rank 1)
All-consuming Curse: Now increases Lesser Curse damage by 20%
All-consuming Curse: Now increases Lesser Curse damage by 10% per rank

Of course we need Recovery. But we need half of the required or maybe abit higher. That makes this stat is not as useful as others. We need to see it to adjust our playstyles when it hits to game.

We dont need to spam Soul Scorch like now because now we can use HG and KF effectively with puppet. Which is better damage with KF and HG. We can simply use HG as a non stop DoT on the target. It deals fast damage and crits. It's like 3+ sparks per second. Not to mention animation changes. Both KF and HG's animations now faster and we are not gonna waste a Soul Scorch anymore.

You will still need a lot of recovery if you want to maximize your Soul Sparks. Remember that Soul Sparks aren't just for spending on Soul Scorch; you gain additional damage based on how many you have if you are using the relevant feat and artifact off-hand power. At the bare minimum you want to be able to use Soul Scorch and your other encounters without stopping to use At-Wills, but "excess" Soul Spark income will boost your overall damage as well. Brood of Hadar is also important for Soul Spark generation, so additional AP gain from recovery is very helpful.

(On a side note, there isn't much else to do past a certain point other than to start building recovery. Additional power beyond what you reasonably build with Black Ice and other multi-stat enchantments isn't worth prioritizing since you'll never notice a few thousand difference in power while buffed to 200k in a party, and extra crit and armor pen are worthless beyond set values.)

To give you an idea, I have around 16.5k recovery on my SB build, and I took it to Preview to test Damnation. The capstone's encounter CD reduction is noticeable and good, but not as game-changing in practice as it appears to be on paper.

Soul Scorch usage isn't going to change from what I can tell. You use it as much as possible and cast your other encounters whenever they come off of CD both for DPS and for Spark generation. If using Damnation, there's now the added goal of cycling through HG and Soul Scorch as quickly as possible to build Soul Investiture stacks since those are the only two powers in the rotation that forcibly remove Warlock's Curse. Reduced cooldowns simply mean that you will maintain higher Soul Spark stacks, hence higher and more consistent damage buff.