M15: Devoted Cleric Class Changes

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  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    the buffs they give us are not going to make us strong dps. LOL. we are still the weakest of any dps class inthe game. we already get buffs from ti. they're just adding a tiny bit more. yeah we'll be able to load into random que and get kicked. no party will ask for us. we are not as strong as the ac path will be. there is no reason we should not be equal to an ac if built right going forward. the stance you are taking is that the ac is better than do and should remain so. I disagree with that. they are two paths and both should be valid and relevant to end game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.

    they are worried about power creep they should be addressing that instead of killing the do.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    as far as the difference in enchantments. a dedicated do looks different than one or two different enchants. the companion on a ac should be all silvery. a do is going to be azures and ruthless and gigantic. with more of the same on the person.
    Incorrect. With my AC DC, I can achieve 30k recovery without silveries on my companion, which is more than enough for my daily needs. I prefer Draconic to reach the armor penetration cap as I'd still like to do respectable damage with my AC DC in end-game content. This also makes it easy to transition to a DO loadout when I want to.

    While a DO DC would likely slot azures or ruthless, why can't an AC DC benefit from this too? Swapping to an AC loadout even with DO-optimised gear would not make the AC DC suboptimal, unless you were min-maxing or are with a party which only demands BiS toons, which would be unfortunate. No one should be dictating what you should have/wear when speccing to either build.
    you must live a very sheltered life.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    meirami said:


    Brand of the Sun: This power will no longer generate Divine Power while the player is in Divine Mode, this should fix an "issue" where players would sometimes not leave Divine Mode after casting all 3 divine encounter powers

    Please revert this because:
    1) The best part about Brand of the Sun is that it ticks while you are in divine mode, so us clerics can start empowering while waiting for the bar to finish filling up.
    2) We already have a way of leaving Divine Mode. It's called Tab.
    Agree with this. Brand of the Sun doesn't generate more divinity in Divine Mode than in normal Mode, and it is supposed to give divinity back over time (tested it, the divinity regeneration stops as it is supposed to already)

    This will just stuff up the divinity rotation, and make playing it even more clunky.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    the buffs they give us are not going to make us strong dps. LOL. we are still the weakest of any dps class inthe game. we already get buffs from ti. they're just adding a tiny bit more. yeah we'll be able to load into random que and get kicked. no party will ask for us. we are not as strong as the ac path will be. there is no reason we should not be equal to an ac if built right going forward. the stance you are taking is that the ac is better than do and should remain so. I disagree with that. they are two paths and both should be valid and relevant to end game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.

    they are worried about power creep they should be addressing that instead of killing the do.
    No, I am not saying the AC is more powerful than the DO.

    I have written down that I use both builds.

    You are asking for a nerf for the AC, so that what, the DO can be better? That doesn't make any sense to me. They are both part of the same class. I am saying that a DO can also be an AC, and they do not play like night and day (I play BOTH), and that DO is not getting "nuked".
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited September 2018

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    as far as the difference in enchantments. a dedicated do looks different than one or two different enchants. the companion on a ac should be all silvery. a do is going to be azures and ruthless and gigantic. with more of the same on the person.
    Incorrect. With my AC DC, I can achieve 30k recovery without silveries on my companion, which is more than enough for my daily needs. I prefer Draconic to reach the armor penetration cap as I'd still like to do respectable damage with my AC DC in end-game content. This also makes it easy to transition to a DO loadout when I want to.

    While a DO DC would likely slot azures or ruthless, why can't an AC DC benefit from this too? Swapping to an AC loadout even with DO-optimised gear would not make the AC DC suboptimal, unless you were min-maxing or are with a party which only demands BiS toons, which would be unfortunate. No one should be dictating what you should have/wear when speccing to either build.
    you must live a very sheltered life.
    And you are resorting to insults?

    Shame ...

    I thought you were better than this. You are just upset that your preferred playstyle is not going to get the TI +20% buff BY JUST STANDING AROUND. I mean, how lazy are you?
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    the buffs they give us are not going to make us strong dps. LOL. we are still the weakest of any dps class inthe game. we already get buffs from ti. they're just adding a tiny bit more. yeah we'll be able to load into random que and get kicked. no party will ask for us. we are not as strong as the ac path will be. there is no reason we should not be equal to an ac if built right going forward. the stance you are taking is that the ac is better than do and should remain so. I disagree with that. they are two paths and both should be valid and relevant to end game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.

    they are worried about power creep they should be addressing that instead of killing the do.
    No, I am not saying the AC is more powerful than the DO.

    I have written down that I use both builds.

    You are asking for a nerf for the AC, so that what, the DO can be better? That doesn't make any sense to me. They are both part of the same class. I am saying that a DO can also be an AC, and they do not play like night and day (I play BOTH), and that DO is not getting "nuked".

    but going forward the do IS nuked. it will not be viable in group content. ppl will not ask for it in parties. the ac will be more powerful. by A LOT. and they do play day and night. I agree that TI was too powerful passively. but they should just make us have to build for it. other than that the classes were pretty equal. but very very different. If you don't see how different they are I'm going to have to guess you probably weren't playing at least one of them correctly lol
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    I run 3 classes at endcontent, DC, SW, GF my DC has two paragon an builds actually that I use both of them are meta, no matter what happens.
    My warlock got one viable build near meta, if Devo-Gf-AC/DC-DO/DC is meta and, if GF is a dps GF.
    My GF is a tank and not a dps, so he is maybe meta if I find a devo pally, that wants to join plus a TR.
    I have no issue with those changes, run DO and AC, but as said, maybe a HG nerf was a better choice to to make DO the go for fresh 70's and AC for endgeared DC's.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User

    <
    How ist hat done 62% for DO ? Did I missed numbers?

    All buffs multiply vs each other.

    1.35*1.20 =1.62.

    (Funnily enough, I think additive team wide buffs would start to shift the meta away from a "get all the buffers!" meta).

    I only used the live version of TI in my comparison to reason why the devs thought an unchanged DO would still promote a double DC metagame.


    DO-DC will bring HG 35% + ePoD 27% debuff, if dps-DO was happy to run a debuff instead of dps.
    TI will be a personal buff or a group debuff? noch checked so far.

    The Mod15 TI will be personal buff (and adds a 10% damage increasing debuff).

  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

    Read the threat and check your options to get to the result that DO DC still can act as a supporter/dps , that´s what you prefer to do, go for it. You want to be meta-one click to do so, stop being childish please.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

    Read the threat and check your options to get to the result that DO DC still can act as a supporter/dps , that´s what you prefer to do, go for it. You want to be meta-one click to do so, stop being childish please.
    more name calling. check yourself please!

    and the do can still act as support yes but they won't be called upon to do that because EVERY other support class is now better. LOL. the ac will be able to do everything we can do.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited September 2018

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

    Read the threat and check your options to get to the result that DO DC still can act as a supporter/dps , that´s what you prefer to do, go for it. You want to be meta-one click to do so, stop being childish please.
    more name calling. check yourself please!

    and the do can still act as support yes but they won't be called upon to do that because EVERY other support class is now better. LOL. the ac will be able to do everything we can do.
    You can run AC-DO-OP- and still be equal or better in terms of buffs/debuffs than other combos simply by debuffing 37% and buffing 35%, on top encounter reset plus mititgation buffs, nothing those other classes provide on top.
    Templock, mof , hunter are similar range. Check your options and stop being childish please.
  • heavensake#5599
    heavensake#5599 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    Really i am all for the removal of TI's group buff never liked it and allowed for unskilled players that had no understanding of the class become overnight rock stars...... But the nerf to forgemaster flame is going to far. DCs all ready have enough useless encounters. And forgemaster is one of the few that have a short casting animation making it very lag free and user friendly. Please please PLEASE !!!! Reconsider the changes to forgemaster and allow it to keeps its damage buff like The fabricant said better to remove the damage buff from break the spirit "laggy at times long casting animation" and leave FF alone. Yet why even wast the time on our divine atwills? They are still 100% useless i would think you guys could manage your time better than this.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

    Read the threat and check your options to get to the result that DO DC still can act as a supporter/dps , that´s what you prefer to do, go for it. You want to be meta-one click to do so, stop being childish please.
    more name calling. check yourself please!

    and the do can still act as support yes but they won't be called upon to do that because EVERY other support class is now better. LOL. the ac will be able to do everything we can do.
    You can run AC-DO-OP- and still be equal or better in terms of buffs/debuffs than other combos simply by debuffing 37% and buffing 35%, on top encounter reset plus mititgation buffs, nothing those other classes provide on top.
    Templock, mof , hunter are similar range. Check your options and stop being childish please.
    you are wrong. and stop calling me childish because you disagree with me. that's called ad hom. I have a valid point. the removal of TI makes DO's absolutely noncompetitive for end game.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User


    Finally. Don't make balance choices based on pvp. pvp is dead. there are like 99 pvp players left and thousands of pve players. if you still want to waste your time on pvp it needs to be entirely separate from how pve is handled. pve should be the focus.

    Incorrect!

    PVP is not dead. You just don't play it.

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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    the buffs they give us are not going to make us strong dps. LOL. we are still the weakest of any dps class inthe game. we already get buffs from ti. they're just adding a tiny bit more. yeah we'll be able to load into random que and get kicked. no party will ask for us. we are not as strong as the ac path will be. there is no reason we should not be equal to an ac if built right going forward. the stance you are taking is that the ac is better than do and should remain so. I disagree with that. they are two paths and both should be valid and relevant to end game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.

    they are worried about power creep they should be addressing that instead of killing the do.
    No, I am not saying the AC is more powerful than the DO.

    I have written down that I use both builds.

    You are asking for a nerf for the AC, so that what, the DO can be better? That doesn't make any sense to me. They are both part of the same class. I am saying that a DO can also be an AC, and they do not play like night and day (I play BOTH), and that DO is not getting "nuked".

    but going forward the do IS nuked. it will not be viable in group content. ppl will not ask for it in parties. the ac will be more powerful. by A LOT. and they do play day and night. I agree that TI was too powerful passively. but they should just make us have to build for it. other than that the classes were pretty equal. but very very different. If you don't see how different they are I'm going to have to guess you probably weren't playing at least one of them correctly lol
    Playing "correctly", to whom? To your end-game party compositions, that to me, sound elitist and counterproductive.

    I've learned to play both paragons of the DC class. You seem to not want to entertain that idea at all.
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited September 2018

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

    Told you again, and I'll you once more, I play both. DO for practically all solo content, and also in parties where AC is not needed.

    DO is still viable. It has been strengthened for all solo content, and only takes a +20% TI nerf to party members (but strengthened personally), while still providing a persistent +56% damage increase (68.5% with divine glow if you are the only DC using it) with 100% up time which other secondary buffers do not. It will also still provide a constant 27.5% debuff via DG and TI (without PoD, and not including the Righteous class features which is open to both paragons). With hastening light, a DO DC will still be a useful addition to a team.
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  • putzboy78
    putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,944 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    vordayn said:

    The Devs clearly have the 2-DC meta firmly within their sights and are actively trying to do something about it.

    Terrifying insight was not a party-wide buff a few mods ago, so clearly they are tweaking it back and forth to adjust the popular party compositions.

    These changes are a step towards making the DC a secondary DPS char, but I believe that even with these changes the DO DC will still probably be a tertiary DPS character. A DO DC can still provide HG to the group, and Prophecy of Doom, so they still can contribute effectively in a 10-man team.

    I think the DO DC should still have more buffs to make them provide even more damage than is current with this preview revamp.

    The only reasons the devs are targeting 2DC is because they don't understand the problem. They are reacting to player feedback that is inarticulate without doing the research.

    Making DC a secondary DPSr is pointless unless you allow the second DC to queue as a DPS for random queues. Otherwise you have completely removed that group content/that income source from these players.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited September 2018

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

    Read the threat and check your options to get to the result that DO DC still can act as a supporter/dps , that´s what you prefer to do, go for it. You want to be meta-one click to do so, stop being childish please.
    more name calling. check yourself please!

    and the do can still act as support yes but they won't be called upon to do that because EVERY other support class is now better. LOL. the ac will be able to do everything we can do.
    You can run AC-DO-OP- and still be equal or better in terms of buffs/debuffs than other combos simply by debuffing 37% and buffing 35%, on top encounter reset plus mititgation buffs, nothing those other classes provide on top.
    Templock, mof , hunter are similar range. Check your options and stop being childish please.
    you are wrong. and stop calling me childish because you disagree with me. that's called ad hom. I have a valid point. the removal of TI makes DO's absolutely noncompetitive for end game.
    My opinion is also valid: DO's are still competitive for end-game.

    You first used the ad-hominem attack, crouched in your term of being 'tongue-in-cheek'. Sure ... So you did the ad hom, and you are calling me wrong when it is my opinion.

    Pot calling kettle?

    You know, it is players like you who relied on the lazy TI +20% stand-around-and-do-nothing buff that make me happy seeing this change. Learn to adapt and play the game instead of getting lost in your perceived entitlement to a paragon.
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  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    DO is still viable. It has been strengthened for all solo content


    While the other aspects of DO gameplay are fair to debate (x% buff in y situation, etc.), let's not accidentally lend any credibility to the notion that this "solo content strengthening" matters in any significant way.

    When we start getting bonus rewards for overkill, people might start caring, but DO didn't need any help at all for solo content.

    As for the buff debate, I think it's important to keep in mind that, while ACs who can maintain very high double-daily coverage aren't incredibly common, it should still be considered for end-game group composition that Hallowed Ground isn't a DO exclusive.

    Now there's a thought...perhaps it should be.

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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    as far as the difference in enchantments. a dedicated do looks different than one or two different enchants. the companion on a ac should be all silvery. a do is going to be azures and ruthless and gigantic. with more of the same on the person.
    Incorrect. With my AC DC, I can achieve 30k recovery without silveries on my companion, which is more than enough for my daily needs. I prefer Draconic to reach the armor penetration cap as I'd still like to do respectable damage with my AC DC in end-game content. This also makes it easy to transition to a DO loadout when I want to.

    While a DO DC would likely slot azures or ruthless, why can't an AC DC benefit from this too? Swapping to an AC loadout even with DO-optimised gear would not make the AC DC suboptimal, unless you were min-maxing or are with a party which only demands BiS toons, which would be unfortunate. No one should be dictating what you should have/wear when speccing to either build.
    you must live a very sheltered life.
    And you are resorting to insults?

    Shame ...

    I thought you were better than this. You are just upset that your preferred playstyle is not going to get the TI +20% buff BY JUST STANDING AROUND. I mean, how lazy are you?
    that is not an insult. that is a tongue in cheek response to you saying that you don't know of anyone dictating what you should or shouldn't wear or use or when or how. micromanaging IS a thing. if you haven't seen it then you must be playing with only a few people



    If we are only using TI we are a very bad DO and people don't want you around. if that is why you think you can just be built however then....

    the reason we're good is because we're also doing empowered bts and hg constantly along with a small amount of dps. and helpful at wills. with this change the ac will be doing bts empowered and because they aren't going to have to worry about exhalt because the double dip into ff will be gone they probably will have time to also throw out hg.

    we have nothing but a paltry extra 10 percent personal dps for the party. there is no one that will prefer a do over ac going forward.



    our dps is not up to par even with a temp lock and ten percent more isn't going to change that LOL


    they need to look at other things than just flat out making TI personal. I"m fine with having to build for it or work for it. they can do additive buffs or make only one power share work at a time. there are a lot of options out there other than nuking us.

    and the only reason you're making this personal is because you are mainly an ac and what I am saying makes sense and you find that TERRIFYING INSIGHT
    LOL. You made this personal about your beloved DO class that is why you are getting defensive and hysterical. " Oh the DO is nuked to the ground". No it isn't. You even described that the DO is much more than TI.

    Gosh. Get your argument straight.
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  • rickcase276
    rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,399 Arc User
    Maybe if they would buff Hammer of Fate up to what its AC counterpart is, Annointed Army, then maybe DO would have a good exclusive daily. That being said, I use it as it is, only because I do not like flamestrike.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    putzboy78 said:

    vordayn said:

    The Devs clearly have the 2-DC meta firmly within their sights and are actively trying to do something about it.

    Terrifying insight was not a party-wide buff a few mods ago, so clearly they are tweaking it back and forth to adjust the popular party compositions.

    These changes are a step towards making the DC a secondary DPS char, but I believe that even with these changes the DO DC will still probably be a tertiary DPS character. A DO DC can still provide HG to the group, and Prophecy of Doom, so they still can contribute effectively in a 10-man team.

    I think the DO DC should still have more buffs to make them provide even more damage than is current with this preview revamp.

    The only reasons the devs are targeting 2DC is because they don't understand the problem. They are reacting to player feedback that is inarticulate without doing the research.

    Making DC a secondary DPSr is pointless unless you allow the second DC to queue as a DPS for random queues. Otherwise you have completely removed that group content/that income source from these players.
    I see your point. They do not understand how party compositions are chosen because they do not understand the problem.

    Buffs have become mandatory for all classes now (even the tank, in which teams prioritise an OP > GF), and even benefits the primary DPS if they are self-buffing. Making buffs additive (to function more like debuffs) instead of multiplicative, may ameliorate this meta.

    It would be good to see the DO DC take place as a DPS character. Which is why I think more should be done to improve the DPS for this build, improve self-buffs, and also allow them to queue as DPS.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • bluebubbl3s
    bluebubbl3s Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 121 Arc User
    @vordayn

    i can see your perspective. but, perhaps you should reserve your opinion until the new mod drops, and try to get into an endgame dungeon run with a DO dc (that isnt being formed by your mates who will bring you along cause they like you). I would like to know how you go with that, and i promise i am not being a smart HAMSTER, i am honestly curious.

    the problem is that once dpsers know they arent getting the bonus damage buff, they wont want you, or your nerfed pod or your nerfed ff. so you tell me what you will bring to the table in an end game dungeon on a DO? and please dont say dps... cause no one is going to bring a cleric along for dps when other classes will do that better.

    and fyi - i run ac. so this nerf doesnt affect me half as much.
    Myth (CW & DC)
    Guild Leader - Valaurakari Ascension


    VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
  • heavensake#5599
    heavensake#5599 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    > @rickcase276 said:
    > Maybe if they would buff Hammer of Fate up to what its AC counterpart is, Annointed Army, then maybe DO would have a good exclusive daily. That being said, I use it as it is, only because I do not like flamestrike.

    Hammer of fate is to buggy very long casting animation and if you have to dodge in the middle of cast you loose the daily and deal little damage. There are only a few Powers that DCs have that have a clean cast and forgemaster was at the top of the list of user friendly DC encounters and now the @Devs had to make it 100% useless.

    And the devs do not seem to care one bit that many real people have been playing this game together for years. And now they want to go and make it so the one friend is now going to be excluded from some of the runs. Why they think there is something evil behind friends wanting to run dungeons together is beyond any reasoning. All they see is 2 of a certain class and do not think that there are real people on the other end that they are messing with. really they have gone a tad overboard with the nerfs FF should be left alone and still be a viable encounter.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    vorphied said:

    vordayn said:

    DO is still viable. It has been strengthened for all solo content


    While the other aspects of DO gameplay are fair to debate (x% buff in y situation, etc.), let's not accidentally lend any credibility to the notion that this "solo content strengthening" matters in any significant way.

    When we start getting bonus rewards for overkill, people might start caring, but DO didn't need any help at all for solo content.

    As for the buff debate, I think it's important to keep in mind that, while ACs who can maintain very high double-daily coverage aren't incredibly common, it should still be considered for end-game group composition that Hallowed Ground isn't a DO exclusive.

    Now there's a thought...perhaps it should be.

    Your first two points matter particularly in end-game group content.

    I don't think mid-game content will be affected that much by the TI changes to party performance. Mid-game ACs will not be able to reach overlapping dailies for perhaps more than 10-20% of the time if at all. For early-game content, HG plus the debuff from TI would still have an impact, arguably more so than a powersharer AC with teammates without optimised companions to actually benefit from it, and early game DCs probably do not have 100% uptime of ANY daily.

    This is an end-game DC problem, so how much of the playerbase is it going to affect?

    Furthermore, on a different tangent, end-game DCs should have the knowledge, ability, and perhaps even extra gear to swap between AC and DO seamlessly.

    In my opinion, DO DC and AC DC should function differently, they should not provide the same X% of buffs, but rather a different way to play the game; hence secondary DPS (or even primary DPS with lesser geared parties) vs buffer.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • keadron#3660
    keadron#3660 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Luckily I already have an AC loadout that I switch to (grudgingly) when there is already a DO in the group. However I hate playing AC and if these changes make DO unwelcome in group content (most likely) a break from the game may be needed. AC will now be using bts, which doesn't stack, and occasionally hg leaving DO without a place. The only form of complaint that matters will be refusing to buy zen until DO is as viable as AC.