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T9 and CoDG - 16K is not good enough

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  • commanderdata002commanderdata002 Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    Dps chars should be as high as possible.
    Support characters can be 15+ if they know their stuff. And their gear should make sense. Like radiants everywhere in DC/OPs.
    stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
  • odskyr#3177 odskyr Member Posts: 42 Arc User

    ... Like radiants everywhere in DC/OPs.

    Why should DC's have radiants everywhere?

  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    ... Like radiants everywhere in DC/OPs.

    Why should DC's have radiants everywhere?

    Ideally radiants + whatever gives most power from assaassin's covenant in defense slots. And thats about it.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Assassins Cvenant: You lose 10% of your Defense, Deflection, and Life Steal, and gain the combination of lost stats as Power.
    ->Black Ice in defense slots is best option for max powershare.
    Use that "Help me Michaela guide" to be informed, best guide ever for DC in NWO.
  • odskyr#3177 odskyr Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Please don't missunderstand me. @commanderdata002 said: "radiants everywhere". Therefore i dont's understand why a radiant enchantment in an utility slot or a defense slot is usefull.
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User

    Therefore i dont's understand why a radiant enchantment in an utility slot or a defense slot is usefull.

    Good point.
  • commanderdata002commanderdata002 Member Posts: 312 Arc User


    Why should DC's have radiants everywhere?

    I meant radiant in every offensive slot, black ice in every defensive slot and silvery on pet.

    stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
  • odskyr#3177 odskyr Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    What you meant was not what you wrote. Unexperienced players don't understand what you mean. They just read what you write. ;)
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    Why should DC's have radiants everywhere?

    I meant radiant in every offensive slot, black ice in every defensive slot and silvery on pet.
    Actually that's not correct either ;)

    For AC DCs, yes (well, some prefer Draconic in defense slots), but not for DO DCs.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    ... Like radiants everywhere in DC/OPs.

    Why should DC's have radiants everywhere?

    Ideally radiants + whatever gives most power from assaassin's covenant in defense slots. And thats about it.
    Not that's about it..you need recovery as well on a AC DC and you get that from silveries on the companion.

    Also if you are lazy and play both you need also armor pen around 10K to achieve the 85% defense ignore stat. So balancing a character out and getting proper stats is not all that easy.

    As for CoDG and my CW; last few days were better after I swapped over some enchants from my DC and got my CW IL to around 17K. The difference was pretty low between a 16.2K and 17.1K for my CW. Stat wise, I loss some crit about 2% but gained around 1.4K in recovery. Even with my CW at 17K, I definitely see where there is still work to be done to improve the character and I know it won't happen over night but at the same time, ESO has been a much more engaging game and the more I play that the more appeal it has to me over the repeating quest that NWO is all about. I like questing and ESO has some really good quest compared to NWO. Though NWO has better combat, IMO. But those are for another topic all together.

  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    micky1p00 said:



    That's the whole point, the community is not pugging, the community is in the guilds, custom channels, friends lists.

    For those of us not in guilds, custom channels, etc. pugging is the community. If the devs create a game environment that is hostile for pugging they are excluding a lot of players.

    Edit: my main is about 13K. I have no idea where I'm supposed to get another 4K from. He's got mythic artifacts, legendary artifact gear, etc. Enchants are rank 9-10, doesn't seem that there's that much to gain in IL from improving them and it's disgustingly expensive to do so.

    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • jazzfongjazzfong Member Posts: 1,079 Arc User

    micky1p00 said:



    That's the whole point, the community is not pugging, the community is in the guilds, custom channels, friends lists.

    For those of us not in guilds, custom channels, etc. pugging is the community. If the devs create a game environment that is hostile for pugging they are excluding a lot of players.

    Edit: my main is about 13K. I have no idea where I'm supposed to get another 4K from. He's got mythic artifacts, legendary artifact gear, etc. Enchants are rank 9-10, doesn't seem that there's that much to gain in IL from improving them and it's disgustingly expensive to do so.

    Armor & Jewel kits, Insignia, Companion and boons.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    micky1p00 said:



    That's the whole point, the community is not pugging, the community is in the guilds, custom channels, friends lists.

    For those of us not in guilds, custom channels, etc. pugging is the community. If the devs create a game environment that is hostile for pugging they are excluding a lot of players.

    Edit: my main is about 13K. I have no idea where I'm supposed to get another 4K from. He's got mythic artifacts, legendary artifact gear, etc. Enchants are rank 9-10, doesn't seem that there's that much to gain in IL from improving them and it's disgustingly expensive to do so.

    Well, a guild can add up to 1500 IL - If you choose not to be in one, that is the single biggest IL boost you are missing.

    Upgrading your enchants from 9/10 to 13 (I'm not even considering 14 (as that is horrendously slow and expensive) would add 1200 or so.

    What about companions? Each legendary companion adds 100 and gives you a boost.

    Jewels and kits on gear (also companion gear) ? Might be a few hundred there.

    Got a full stable? What is the quality of the insignia - green, blue or purple? Again, some points to be had there,

    Finally - boons. Got any unfinished campaigns? Those boons really add up.

    The maximum is somewhere around 18400 right now, but that may actually force people to use sub-optimal gear, just for the IL.....a "BiS" maximum is closer to 18000, but getting there is really slow and expensive.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    The implematation of strongholds was discussed ages ago.
    You miss 16000 stats like power/Lifesteal if you do not join a guilds and you are not competetive in PVP on top.
    Cryptic thought that guildboons are a "must have" in their game, I think it was one reason for many players to step out.
    adinosii said:


    The maximum is somewhere around 18400 right now, but that may actually force people to use sub-optimal gear, just for the IL.....a "BiS" maximum is closer to 18000, but getting there is really slow and expensive.

    Many player prefer the IL push > the BIS solution, nerdfactor is pretty high sometimes, also at endgame.
  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 215 Arc User
    Well, a guild can add up to 1500 IL - If you choose not to be in one, that is the single biggest IL boost you are missing.

    In a guild but it's nowhere on stronghold progression and not improving. Not likely to change because the pugging situation doesn't let you meet new people.

    Upgrading your enchants from 9/10 to 13 (I'm not even considering 14 (as that is horrendously slow and expensive) would add 1200 or so.

    13 is hideously slow and expensive....

    What about companions? Each legendary companion adds 100 and gives you a boost.

    5 legendaries. Main one is an Owl with three rank 9 (or maybe 10, I forget) bondings and full Gateway companion gear.

    Jewels and kits on gear (also companion gear) ? Might be a few hundred there.

    Absurdly expensive for tiny bonuses and require changing every time you upgrade gear. (Rank 25 in all crafting...no masterwork, of course.)

    Got a full stable? What is the quality of the insignia - green, blue or purple? Again, some points to be had there,

    Full. Blue with some purple.

    Finally - boons. Got any unfinished campaigns? Those boons really add up.

    Ravenloft not full, of course. Others are except for the last two boxes in Storm King's Thunder and Well of Dragons because of insane requirements.

    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    You can run tong with any DPS class in 15 minutes. But...this is nothing special my friend.
    I didnt claim that SW can do tong like every other dps class. I dont believe it. Thats all.

    You claim a 15min tong run isnt anything special but this is whats still considered a speed run for the majority of players. You even said yourself the average run time is 25 min or somewhere around that. So when the SW as main dps completes it in 15 min or a little more its a different story in your book? You contradict yourself every step of the way.

    You originally claimed that a group cant complete a tong run in under 15min with an SW. Just because you don't beieve it doesn't mean it hasn't been done, or that other ppl dont believe it. Its just a matter of you never running with a good SW that knows what he's doing. Honestly why do I keep replying to you when al you do is contradict yourself and/or lie as if ppl cant backtrack and look at the comments you made regarding the SW?

    Example: itsme#5853 said:


    "12-13 minutes is considered a speed run now go look up the definition of a speed run !!!."

    "You replied with: True. But not with an SW and not if you play legit. But thx for your deffinition. Finally i know what speed run means. Thx."

    Now, 3 mins more with a SW as main dps is nothing to me. as I've said many times before ive seen slower runs with higher dps and many others here have also said the samething here. Again, you dont ever run with an SW that knows what he's doing and someone else said that as well. so where does your assumptions come from?
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited July 2018


    You originally claimed that a group cant complete a tong run in under 15min with an SW.

    Did i? Mmmhhh...i hope you dont start lying bc you got no arguments. Can you quote where i said tong under 15 min is not possible with an SW ( as a main DPS and legit)? Im very old. Maybe i forgot it. Thx
  • pteriaspterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User

    What about companions? Each legendary companion adds 100 and gives you a boost.

    5 legendaries. Main one is an Owl with three rank 9 (or maybe 10, I forget) bondings and full Gateway companion gear.

    Not IL related, but effectiveness related: you should prioritize upgrading those bonding stones to 12 or 13 as soon as possible, certainly before any other enchants. It's probably the best performance boost you could make at this point.

    As for the rest, yeah, kind of a sucky situation...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    micky1p00 said:



    That's the whole point, the community is not pugging, the community is in the guilds, custom channels, friends lists.

    For those of us not in guilds, custom channels, etc. pugging is the community. If the devs create a game environment that is hostile for pugging they are excluding a lot of players.

    Edit: my main is about 13K. I have no idea where I'm supposed to get another 4K from. He's got mythic artifacts, legendary artifact gear, etc. Enchants are rank 9-10, doesn't seem that there's that much to gain in IL from improving them and it's disgustingly expensive to do so.

    A guild will give you 1.5 IL on PC and 2K on consoles if the guild is max for all boons.

    As for GS there are many things impacting it.

    Legendary Mount vs. Epic - if you have a legendary you get an additional 350 IL.
    Legendary companions - each legendary companion provides 100 IL and you gain additional stats from your companions.
    Companion gear - if your summoned companion can use rings that provides additional IL.
    Enchantments - get them all to R13, it improves IL and stats
    Gear - 510 gear can help as well
    Reinforcement Kits - each kit, up to 8 kits total can provide 35IL per a kit

    Your point about the community extending beyond just alliance guild and friends is valid. LFG is part of the gaming community, anyone who does not think that simply lives in a confine space in this game. LFG is very commonly used in MMOs especially when looking for buffers as most players in MMOs are DPS.

    Typically I use LFG if I cannot find a tank or DC for runs due to a lack of players being online within my group of friend or my alliance. I do go first to friend, than guild and finally alliance. Typically I don't have issues getting into group.

    When I wrote this post, I was actually testing LFG water to see if it was any better, to see if people thoughts on IL were still the same. And they are. As I pointed out I went from a 16K CW to 17K and the difference was I got into groups easier even though my ability and effectiveness for my character really did not change; the only thing that did was around 600 IL total. Kinda sad that IL is such a factor to get into groups but that is the norm, not only here but for many MMOs.

    I know when mod 14 comes out I will expect the LFG community to want 17K IL still, when only 14k is probably all that you really need to beat content.
  • eddyrayne#8598 eddyrayne Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    In all honesty, all these complaints come down to the devs design of group composition. The biggest percentage of players are playing as a DPS. Yet when people set up groups for tong most of the time, they will only have 1 dps on the team and the other 4 are buff/debuff of some sort. The devs need to force team composition so that there is 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 heal/buffer. If dps is the most common type of class that is played, it also means they are the most common to spend money upgrading their characters. But then comes the big question. WHY SHOULD I CONTINUE TO GRIND OR SPEND MONEY TO UPGRADE MY DPS CHARACTER WHEN DPS IS CONSTANTLY ALIENATED FROM THE GROUP EQUATION IN END GAME ACTIVITIES?

    CRYPTIC! FORCE GROUP COMPOSITION PLEASE. PPL WILL NOT SPEND MONEY IF THERE IS NO REASON TO GET TO END GAME CUZ PPL DONT WANT MORE THAN 1 DPS ON THEIR TEAM.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    In all honesty, all these complaints come down to the devs design of group composition. The biggest percentage of players are playing as a DPS. Yet when people set up groups for tong most of the time, they will only have 1 dps on the team and the other 4 are buff/debuff of some sort. The devs need to force team composition so that there is 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 heal/buffer. If dps is the most common type of class that is played, it also means they are the most common to spend money upgrading their characters. But then comes the big question. WHY SHOULD I CONTINUE TO GRIND OR SPEND MONEY TO UPGRADE MY DPS CHARACTER WHEN DPS IS CONSTANTLY ALIENATED FROM THE GROUP EQUATION IN END GAME ACTIVITIES?

    CRYPTIC! FORCE GROUP COMPOSITION PLEASE. PPL WILL NOT SPEND MONEY IF THERE IS NO REASON TO GET TO END GAME CUZ PPL DONT WANT MORE THAN 1 DPS ON THEIR TEAM.

    To get there you need to stomp all open buffs down to a normal level, debuffs could stay as is I´d say.
    A DO-DC buffs one dps x 2-3 , OP more than doubles that number, warlock on top doubles it etc, Artifacts, mountpowers on top etc.
    Buffs multplied with each other lead to what we got.... a 1 dps + 9 buffer group in codg or 2 dps + 8 buffer setup.

    To change things they need to nerf every feature like TI or AoC, encounter like longstrider, PoP, ITF, dailies like HG, powerbuffs and more.
    Like: TI spends 5%, Aura of courage procs once every 3 seconds maybe (internal coooldown), HG buffs for 10%, PoP for 5% , or avoid those buffs to stack/multiplie longstrider: 40% > ITF30-35% > HG 20%=TI 20% =temp capstone > PoP 18% ... sincs those buffs are multiplicative I can´t tell how to make them additive.
    I can´t tell what the plans look like for this game , but I doubt they are going to overhaul the hole game to get there, no manpower, means that 80% of all player stick with a buffer-setup 4ever, in case they want to get into endcontent :(
    I run 3 classes from codg, my main (warlock) is buffer in about 95% of all runs and dps in 5% (rare occasion).
    My DC is ...the most requested class in this game since long and has no problems to get in codg, even if I would push buttons by random choice being oddly dressed, fotm class with high pretty nerd factor :)
    My GF is not maxed but can do the buffer/dps role.
    So in the end I run 3 buffer more or less, since Hunter, GWF, TR and hdps-GF are the classes that are favoured for those 2 dps spots, it´s too expensive to stuff two classes as dps in this game at once for most player.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    If the IL pejudice is getting to you, stop PUGing.

    Just play with friends. Problem solved.
    Form your parties only from friend list/alliance/guild.

    They know you and have a vested interest in investing time in you.

    Don't respond to LFGs that require an IL.
    My toons range 17k to 14k.
    My >16k toons have no barriers.
    The rest I only run endgame w folks I know.
    They already know my exp and don't judge the IL.
    I do the same for them on my 17K to help their 14k.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    In all honesty, all these complaints come down to the devs design of group composition. The biggest percentage of players are playing as a DPS. Yet when people set up groups for tong most of the time, they will only have 1 dps on the team and the other 4 are buff/debuff of some sort. The devs need to force team composition so that there is 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 heal/buffer. If dps is the most common type of class that is played, it also means they are the most common to spend money upgrading their characters. But then comes the big question. WHY SHOULD I CONTINUE TO GRIND OR SPEND MONEY TO UPGRADE MY DPS CHARACTER WHEN DPS IS CONSTANTLY ALIENATED FROM THE GROUP EQUATION IN END GAME ACTIVITIES?

    CRYPTIC! FORCE GROUP COMPOSITION PLEASE. PPL WILL NOT SPEND MONEY IF THERE IS NO REASON TO GET TO END GAME CUZ PPL DONT WANT MORE THAN 1 DPS ON THEIR TEAM.

    most of the classes have a place in end game content. just not with the dps only side of builds available to them. codg runs usually have a full compliment of classes for instance. I've ran t9 with all the different classes as main or second dps.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    In all honesty, all these complaints come down to the devs design of group composition. The biggest percentage of players are playing as a DPS. Yet when people set up groups for tong most of the time, they will only have 1 dps on the team and the other 4 are buff/debuff of some sort. The devs need to force team composition so that there is 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 heal/buffer. If dps is the most common type of class that is played, it also means they are the most common to spend money upgrading their characters. But then comes the big question. WHY SHOULD I CONTINUE TO GRIND OR SPEND MONEY TO UPGRADE MY DPS CHARACTER WHEN DPS IS CONSTANTLY ALIENATED FROM THE GROUP EQUATION IN END GAME ACTIVITIES?

    CRYPTIC! FORCE GROUP COMPOSITION PLEASE. PPL WILL NOT SPEND MONEY IF THERE IS NO REASON TO GET TO END GAME CUZ PPL DONT WANT MORE THAN 1 DPS ON THEIR TEAM.

    To get there you need to stomp all open buffs down to a normal level, debuffs could stay as is I´d say.
    A DO-DC buffs one dps x 2-3 , OP more than doubles that number, warlock on top doubles it etc, Artifacts, mountpowers on top etc.
    Buffs multplied with each other lead to what we got.... a 1 dps + 9 buffer group in codg or 2 dps + 8 buffer setup.

    To change things they need to nerf every feature like TI or AoC, encounter like longstrider, PoP, ITF, dailies like HG, powerbuffs and more.
    Like: TI spends 5%, Aura of courage procs once every 3 seconds maybe (internal coooldown), HG buffs for 10%, PoP for 5% , or avoid those buffs to stack/multiplie longstrider: 40% > ITF30-35% > HG 20%=TI 20% =temp capstone > PoP 18% ... sincs those buffs are multiplicative I can´t tell how to make them additive.
    I can´t tell what the plans look like for this game , but I doubt they are going to overhaul the hole game to get there, no manpower, means that 80% of all player stick with a buffer-setup 4ever, in case they want to get into endcontent :(
    I run 3 classes from codg, my main (warlock) is buffer in about 95% of all runs and dps in 5% (rare occasion).
    My DC is ...the most requested class in this game since long and has no problems to get in codg, even if I would push buttons by random choice being oddly dressed, fotm class with high pretty nerd factor :)
    My GF is not maxed but can do the buffer/dps role.
    So in the end I run 3 buffer more or less, since Hunter, GWF, TR and hdps-GF are the classes that are favoured for those 2 dps spots, it´s too expensive to stuff two classes as dps in this game at once for most player.

    all the other classes have buffer roles for other spots in the roster. it's not like there isn't a place for everyone in that line up
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    In all honesty, all these complaints come down to the devs design of group composition. The biggest percentage of players are playing as a DPS. Yet when people set up groups for tong most of the time, they will only have 1 dps on the team and the other 4 are buff/debuff of some sort. The devs need to force team composition so that there is 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 heal/buffer. If dps is the most common type of class that is played, it also means they are the most common to spend money upgrading their characters. But then comes the big question. WHY SHOULD I CONTINUE TO GRIND OR SPEND MONEY TO UPGRADE MY DPS CHARACTER WHEN DPS IS CONSTANTLY ALIENATED FROM THE GROUP EQUATION IN END GAME ACTIVITIES?

    CRYPTIC! FORCE GROUP COMPOSITION PLEASE. PPL WILL NOT SPEND MONEY IF THERE IS NO REASON TO GET TO END GAME CUZ PPL DONT WANT MORE THAN 1 DPS ON THEIR TEAM.

    CW, SW, HR all offer buffing abilities to a group. Being one of these is easier to get into a CoDG than playing as a TR or a GWF. The problem is that many players want to play only as a DPS.

    I did some testing on my CW and long story short, my MoF and SS Opp buff builds do just as much damage as my CW Thaum build does. Ran some CoDG, T9 and FBI and I am probably going to do a full respec on my Thaum build for a MoF AoE Opp build as I see no point in running Thaum CW ATM. A friend of mine ran his SW only as a DPS and now rarely runs his SW as a DPS because he can get into CoDG all day long as a Templock.

    If you area GWF or a TR you will typically have to fight for 1 or 2 spots in groups as the primary DPS and if you are not beating the SW Temp or the CW Buffer you will typically not be invited back into that group. It happens because you are getting all of these buffs and if you are not captailizing on them, you will be black listed by some players.


    As for my CW, I'm now over 17K and I don't have a lego mount. A lego mount will ensure that I stay over 17K after the removal of PVP boons, but without one come mod 14 I will be a high 16K CW again and that really does not bother me as I have made some CoDG friends and have more than proven myself as a buff CW.

    I will probably never step foot into CoDG again once mod 14 hits as I will be farming the new zone for the BiS gear for my two characters.



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