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T9 and CoDG - 16K is not good enough

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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,560 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    micky1p00 said:

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.




    what weird statements for someone who has a 17k character. did you buy your il then? why do you assume that everyone bought their IL. I know very very few people who bought in. most DID grind it out. I really don't know where you find the people you run with because what you say makes no sense as a whole. I know a few bad high il people but most of them that i know kick butt. the runs in high il parties DO tend to be Faster and more efficient. Lower il parties can also be fast and efficient but unless you are runnign with rockstars that you know and love it is also A LOT more hit and miss. the problem I see with people in general more than not is just not knowing how to build a party. that can result in some frustrating runs.

    I read your post as pandering to a certain group of people here so you don't look bad (fail) lol
    Most ppl I know at high il have done both the grinding and paying. Its not like u cant do both in the game. I have one guildmate out of the entire guild that hasnt payed a cent on the game or at the very least payed very little in comparison to the rest of my guild, and they are like 14-15k. Sure it can be done, might take longer, but that doesnt mean someone who pays more vs someone who grinds out the content is any better or worse. You'd be surprise how unique ppl are..

    Theres no reason to believe the p2w person has less knowledge about his/her class simply because they decided to pay more. It just means, they decided to pay more over spending yrs grinding. Sometimes it is the case however, if ppl want to spent alot of money to get through content faster then so be it, just means they might have to get advice from a friend or someone more knowledgeable about how the class works. Doesnt really affect anyone in the longrun tbh.
    And more so, I've seen long time players like "I've played since release" "I've played since beta" or I've played when there were no cars, only horses and we used abacus to play and pigeons for internet, that have no clue what they are doing.

    There are people on the extreme side of things on each end. But I think we all agree that the OP generalization and assumptions are just wrong, mostly trying to insult and put in bad light highly geared players. At the same time a statement could have been "In all the guilds I've been the high geared players take the lower geared to runs without consideration of IL" (just an example), or most of high geared players know their class and play better than lower geared players...
    Well...after playing the game since beta and having absolutely no clue of what they're doing, means its either intentional or maybe theyre just slow (no offense to special needs ppl). My answer to that is let them do what they want. Its a free country.

    The OP simply made a generalization based on his/her own experience. and im somewhat leaning with the OP in this discussion. I personally dont see alot of CWs in the endgame content any longer. Sure I've run with an MOF or two, but generally compared to another dps class, I just dont see them as much. In fact, I doubt i have ran with a CW as main dps in tong. MOF is still highly requested in endgame dungeons, however i doubt many enjoy playing a support role as much as they would like to be the main dps role. Could be the reason I dont see many CWs in endgame content. If i did form a group, I'd have no problem inv them if they were hdps or MOF (just play a role is all i care about).. What the OP suffers from is not exclusive to CWs tbh. Any class can face similar type of discrimination. My suggestion to the OP would be to make it a habit of forming your own parties, so you wont have to face that type of attitude. Also, run more with friends. Your friends not gonna tell you (hurr durr u need to be 17k or im quitting hurr durr). Friends generally dont treat friends in that manner. Friends usually try to help u out or give u constructive advise. At the end of the day we're all playing the same game..

    Edit: HAMSTER the meta, I watch TRs dps, HRs dps, ive seen GFs dps and yes even our SWs. And in alot of those runs (not all) you can complete endgame content faster than a dumbass meta. Its thanks to players in this game that say HAMSTER it, were not getting bogged down by what seems good on paper...
    well, few things, first, It's hard to assume about the purpose of the post, but IMO based on previous and followup posts, it's not just some innocent complaint.

    Second, CWs didn't just became TRs, or HRs.. Those that played only CW as main, still do, those that played multiple classes are mostly hunted to be supports for those that only play DPS roles.

    You know why you usually wont see CW as main DPS in Tong?

    Regardless, any DPS have issue to group, due to the game having less need for DPS per group, and much more DPS players overall. CW have the added benefit of having a good and valid support spec.

    Your suggestion about friends is valid, but I think it points out that you didn't read the OP posts carefully, their 'dive' into the public /lfg was intentional. And then tarnish the whole community as a single evil...


    Meta:
    Hard to tell to what you refer exactly as dumbass meta, but in general meta only tells you the best composition, it's up to any player to choose what to do with that knowledge. Some can spend half days looking for that single best variant to make the run 30 seconds faster, others can use the knowledge about group interactions to compensate for players lack of skill and/or gear and thus to allow to make successful groups at 14 IL (for example) with regular average players.
    Knowledge is all about how it's used...
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    Here is a reason, why you will see less CWs ingame, besides the 'need' for more supporters. There was a thing called HV set for a certain class, lets call it CW. This set applied a debuff to the mob with every encounter power used. The debuff stacked. To no surprise at all ppl started building groups with 3+ CWs, so everyone and his mom played CW.

    3 years later there is no HV set anymore (to be precise, they deleted the bonus). Of these CWs most (whom I know of) stopped playing or switched to another class bc a) they dont want to spam in lfg or beg for a party with a dps and b) they can afford it, bc, well they grinded for 4+ years.

    Yes, there are beta players with no gear and no clue. Yes, there are high IL players who dont understand, that highest IL is not BIS and they cant play their class. I knew about the years several players who did drop thousands of dollars in this game, but there are a few basic facts some ppl here tend to ignore.

    1. Math. To some extend this game is depending on gear. With the right companions and gear your dps gets multiplied by factor X. Base dmg depends of gear. Crit chance and RI depend on gear. Sure, a well build 15k player can have (where it matters) similar stats as a well build 17k+ player, but there is still a difference.
    2. Experience. While there are some PTW heros, most ppl with higher IL did grind their gear. They play for years and some of them minmax their build on the testserver. Fun fact, if you play for years in the endgame bracket, you tend to know other ppl, who did the same. Even, if you are not able or interested to play for hours on the testserver, some of your pals do and you can ask them about upcoming changes or look at the forum for advice.

    This geared player bashing is nothing new. I read similar posts, when ppl farmed the old CN, when ppl did synchronized ques for Tiamat, to get grouped with their friends, with the release of FBI, MSVA...

    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • nevian#0931 nevian Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    > @spidey#3367 said:
    > That doesn't sound elitist to you? Not even a little bit?
    >
    >
    > Not at all.

    > @spidey#3367 said:
    > That doesn't sound elitist to you? Not even a little bit?
    >
    >
    > Not at all.

    > @spidey#3367 said:
    > That doesn't sound elitist to you? Not even a little bit?
    >
    >
    > Not at all.

    > @spidey#3367 said:
    > That doesn't sound elitist to you? Not even a little bit?
    >
    >
    > Not at all.

    > @spidey#3367 said:
    > That doesn't sound elitist to you? Not even a little bit?
    >
    >
    > Not at all.
  • nevian#0931 nevian Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    IL = $
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    IL = $

    If you mean that there is a correleation between IL and actual money spent, there is some truth to that...but it is an oversimplification.

    My guess is that most players who have spent a significant amount of money (say $1000 or more) on the game have at least one character at (or near) max IL - however, the reverse is not true.

    There are quite a few players that have one or more BiS characters, and have not spent any money on the game. Perhaps some of them are still enjoying the gains of some old exploit (remember Caturday?), but for the rest it has been about grinding, masterwork or (very often) intelligent use of the AH.

    There is probably a stronger correleation between IL and time spent playing.
    Post edited by adinosii on
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    IL = $

    It feels like that but that is not always the case. I have a friend that dropped $5 when this game launched on PS4. Last time I ran with him he was around 17.5K IL. He has gotten lucky with drops and that has helped him gear up his character; he has also played the AH as well. Luck was his biggest factor though, getting Orcus Shards when they were selling for over 2M helped, getting the Key of the Starts artifact early and selling it helped, etc...ranking and selling enchantments that were of value also helped, he played and learn what to rank and sell and what to buy for this character. He is also an excellent player so that helped him get into groups; he also plays mainly as a tank, which helped him get higher in his IL than others.

    The issue I see is mostly on the DPS side; where you need a higher IL to get invited to content and the new minimum standard is 17K.
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User

    IL = $

    Maybe in your lill world, m8...
  • odskyr#3177 odskyr Member Posts: 42 Arc User

    The issue I see is mostly on the DPS side; where you need a higher IL to get invited to content and the new minimum standard is 17K.

    Not only for DPS classes. More and more it is getting the standard IL even for the support classes. Even with my 16K DC i have some problems getting invited into codg. Funnily enough i am very often the last DC fighting on the codg plattform whereas the 17K and 18K DC's are chilling at the campfire :p

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    micky1p00 said:

    But I think we all agree that the OP generalization and assumptions are just wrong, mostly trying to insult and put in bad light highly geared players...

    Hardly. Just because a few people take it personally doesn't mean he's trying to be insulting. And he's clearly not trying to put highly geared players in a bad light. SOME players who are highly geared do that themselves. Trust me, they don't need anyone's help with that. They were already making a bad impression before they even crossed Neverwinter Fields.

    You can put a scrub in epic gear, but you can't always get the scrub out.
    Then explain to me what is this:


    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.

    If you write that once you hit 17k you became:

    1. without proper enchants or gear.
    2. Lack awareness.
    3. Have the wrong mindset and run with only elite players, thought it's contradictory to the rest of the statements, because elite=the best.
    4. And lack skill.


    Where is the " clearly not trying to put highly geared players in a bad light" ?

    Let me quote again:
    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above.


    If that's not generalization of 17k+ and putting a group in bad light, then what you need to write ?


    There is a difference between your "some" which we have everywhere, there are some crappy low geared players, and there are some great, the same with well geared, and etc... It's called the normal distribution / bell curve / Gauss curve
    Yet, this is not what was written and quoted above.


    The description above may apply to some random pugs, at any gear level, but as is, it is exactly elitism at it's worst. The writer grouped exactly the same way as others and got into the same group, but all the rest in the group are skills, gear buyers with no awareness. Who said that someone in that group didn't think about the OP the same way?
    It helps if you use the full quote... he actually said, "I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...".

    Oh, wait... that doesn't help at all. it actually disproves your point. Oops. My bad. Nevermind. Nothing to see here. Move along.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,560 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    micky1p00 said:

    micky1p00 said:

    But I think we all agree that the OP generalization and assumptions are just wrong, mostly trying to insult and put in bad light highly geared players...

    Hardly. Just because a few people take it personally doesn't mean he's trying to be insulting. And he's clearly not trying to put highly geared players in a bad light. SOME players who are highly geared do that themselves. Trust me, they don't need anyone's help with that. They were already making a bad impression before they even crossed Neverwinter Fields.

    You can put a scrub in epic gear, but you can't always get the scrub out.
    Then explain to me what is this:


    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.

    If you write that once you hit 17k you became:

    1. without proper enchants or gear.
    2. Lack awareness.
    3. Have the wrong mindset and run with only elite players, thought it's contradictory to the rest of the statements, because elite=the best.
    4. And lack skill.


    Where is the " clearly not trying to put highly geared players in a bad light" ?

    Let me quote again:
    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above.


    If that's not generalization of 17k+ and putting a group in bad light, then what you need to write ?


    There is a difference between your "some" which we have everywhere, there are some crappy low geared players, and there are some great, the same with well geared, and etc... It's called the normal distribution / bell curve / Gauss curve
    Yet, this is not what was written and quoted above.


    The description above may apply to some random pugs, at any gear level, but as is, it is exactly elitism at it's worst. The writer grouped exactly the same way as others and got into the same group, but all the rest in the group are skills, gear buyers with no awareness. Who said that someone in that group didn't think about the OP the same way?
    It helps if you use the full quote... he actually said, "I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...".

    Oh, wait... that doesn't help at all. it actually disproves your point. Oops. My bad. Nevermind. Nothing to see here. Move along.
    No it does not disprove. That's the point. Please read again...
    All that I don't know != Some of those I don't know.

    All 17k I don't know must be 1,2,3,4..

    Seriously... It's not difficult. You can draw a Venn diagram...
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018


    12-13 minutes is considered a speed run now go look up the definition of a speed run !!!.

    True. But not with an SW and not if you play legit. But thx for your deffinition. Finally i know what speed run means. Thx.
    You are very wrong. I completed a 10-15 min run just yesterday as templock with a GF as main dps. Believe it or not the fastest Tong runs have been done with SWs. I've also seen SWs as main dps and complete the dungeon in the same amount of time. TBH, A speedrun nowadays is considered 8 mins. Also, outside of Tong runs, I've seen sw in fbi and other dungeons come in top paingiver over ppl ive seen main tong as dps. I've said this beofre, you'd be surprised how many unique players are in this game and I'd always take a skilled player that knows hos class vs a player that simply follows the fray.

    @spidey#3367 If u want to have the absolute most perfect run with the most perfect group, with the most perfect dps, then by all means follow the meta,build an 17k-18k GWF or a paly, with their boring one dimensional builds and rotations, and just go easy mode. Its a free country and no ones stopping u from playing how u want.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018


    12-13 minutes is considered a speed run now go look up the definition of a speed run !!!.

    True. But not with an SW and not if you play legit. But thx for your deffinition. Finally i know what speed run means. Thx.
    You are very wrong. I completed a 10-15 min run just yesterday as templock with a GF as main dps. Believe it or not the fastest Tong runs have been done with SWs. I've also seen SWs as main dps and complete the dungeon in the same amount of time. TBH, A speedrun nowadays is considered 8 mins. Also, outside of Tong runs, I've seen sw in fbi and other dungeons come in top paingiver over ppl ive seen main tong as dps. I've said this beofre, you'd be surprised how many unique players are in this game and I'd always take a skilled player that knows hos class vs a player that simply follows the fray.

    @spidey#3367 If u want to have the absolute most perfect run with the most perfect group, with the most perfect dps, then by all means follow the meta,build an 17k-18k GWF or a paly, with their boring one dimensional builds and rotations, and just go easy mode. Its a free country and no ones stopping u from playing how u want. BTW if you're wondering what the meta is or "legit"as you say, its 2xDC 1xGF xOP 1xGWF, substituting 1 DC for MOF or SW. Honestly though with all those buffs going, anyone could seem like HDPS in a group like that. substitute GWF for any other dps with a decent IL and skill and u have a 10-20 min tong run easy..
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User

    Believe it or not the fastest Tong runs have been done with SWs.

    Sure. I cant find any on YT, but if you say so it must be true. Nvm.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    Believe it or not the fastest Tong runs have been done with SWs.

    Sure. I cant find any on YT, but if you say so it must be true. Nvm.
    Ok bud here ya go:

    SW 14 min tong and as main dps:


    SW as main dps tong:


    Gee, that was just from 1 min of searching around on youtube, gosh I wonder what type of internet you're using.

    I've seen slower runs with higher dps. And like others have posted, speedruns are usually in the 10-15min ballpark. So the real question is why havent we been seeing any 7-8 min runs with GWFs and etc? @adinosii Wow, really? 1-2min less?

    Post edited by mehrunesdagon#1073 on
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Item level says nothing. You can have good stats without high item level. But im not much experienced in pve since i only do 1 or 2 dungeons a month. I only pvp and i have seen a lot... and i mean a lot 16k, 17k and even 18k pve players on my team and they were dying as fast as a 6k item level player.
    Item level doesn't matter in pvp or pve. Few days ago my team had 2x 16k, 1x 17k and 1x 18k item level player and i was shocked how fast they were dying. I mean you get max tenacity by default so it doesn't matter if you have pve or pvp gears.

    TL:DR - Item level doesn't matter. It's about having proper stats/ builds and experience. (dps / buffs / debuffs / healing )
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User


    SW 14 min tong and as main dps:

    Seems legit at the beginning....very legit ^^

    SW as main dps tong:

    24 Minutes...usual time. No matter which DPS. 24 Minutes is a usual time.

    Gee, that was just from 1 min of searching around on youtube, gosh I wonder what type of internet you're using.

    Well...srly? I quoted this:

    16.5k sw dps can easy 12-13min it....

    And i didnt believe it, bc i said this:


    True. But not with an SW and not if you play legit.

    Thx for showing ( after your 1 minute search....gee....) the "legit speedrun" with this SW. Your funny. Really funny ^^

  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    @spidey#3367 14 min isnt legit? really? Fastest I've ever seen recorded was 11-12 min with legit groups lol..
    24 mins where? how'd you get 24 mins from a 2:00 min boss fight with SW as main dps? the whole run wasnt even recorded in that 2nd vid lol.

    You tried to throw the SW under the bus, so I called you out on your bs, and yet here you are, still in complete denial even after seeing one of the fastest recorded tong runs with SW as main dps.
  • agilestoagilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User
    Well the end-screen on your second video does show the paingiver, which shows the timer, 24:57, which is nowhere close to a speedrun
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    @spidey#3367 14 min isnt legit? really? Fastest I've ever seen recorded was 11-12 min with legit groups lol..
    24 mins where? how'd you get 24 mins from a 2:00 min boss fight with SW as main dps? the whole run wasnt even recorded in that 2nd vid lol.

    You tried to throw the SW under the bus, so I called you out on your bs, and yet here you are, still in complete denial even after seeing one of the fastest recorded tong runs with SW as main dps.

    gee...i think you dont know the difference between legit/non legit. I never said SWs are HAMSTER or cant dish a lot of dps. I just said its not possible to run TONG ( now...lets see how fast it will go after mod 14) legit in this time with a SW. So stop putting words in my mouth, m8.
    BTW: In your 14 min "SW" TONG run....do you really think Boss DPS was from SW? I can see the amount of damage from the GF. The only reason why the SW is in front at the end was the buff at orcus. Try to find another vid, my friend ^^
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    gee...i think you dont know the difference between legit/non legit

    The dividing line between legit and non-legit is sometimes a bit blurry.

    ...hmmm... how to phrase this without specifically discuss exploit details...

    There is one situation in a particular dungeon where you can get stuck. There is also a specific "trick", which people use to get past that and avoid having to restart. What I am starting to see (and, it annoys me a lot) is when people use the same trick when they do not have to - that is, when they are not stuck.

    That's clearly non-legit IMO, but the first scenario is basically a workaround for a bug in the game, and it's much more of a gray area.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    adinosii said:

    gee...i think you dont know the difference between legit/non legit

    The dividing line between legit and non-legit is sometimes a bit blurry.

    ...hmmm... how to phrase this without specifically discuss exploit details...

    There is one situation in a particular dungeon where you can get stuck. There is also a specific "trick", which people use to get past that and avoid having to restart. What I am starting to see (and, it annoys me a lot) is when people use the same trick when they do not have to - that is, when they are not stuck.

    That's clearly non-legit IMO, but the first scenario is basically a workaround for a bug in the game, and it's much more of a gray area.
    You don't bring along classes that can exploit this issue and the problem is solved.
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User


    You don't bring along classes that can exploit this issue and the problem is solved.

    Excactly. Good point.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User


    You don't bring along classes that can exploit this issue and the problem is solved.

    Excactly. Good point.
    Or another solution is restart if someone does use a glitch or leave the group.

    I been in so many T9 runs where people glitch, etc... I just leave as you don't need to glitch T9 to get a 15 minute or less run. You just need to ensure that all buffers are getting buffs up during that buff window and DPS are using their hardest hiting abilities during that same window.


  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018


    You don't bring along classes that can exploit this issue and the problem is solved.

    Excactly. Good point.
    Or another solution is restart if someone does use a glitch or leave the group.

    I been in so many T9 runs where people glitch, etc... I just leave as you don't need to glitch T9 to get a 15 minute or less run. You just need to ensure that all buffers are getting buffs up during that buff window and DPS are using their hardest hiting abilities during that same window.


    @spidey#3367 14 min isnt legit? really? Fastest I've ever seen recorded was 11-12 min with legit groups lol..
    24 mins where? how'd you get 24 mins from a 2:00 min boss fight with SW as main dps? the whole run wasnt even recorded in that 2nd vid lol.

    You tried to throw the SW under the bus, so I called you out on your bs, and yet here you are, still in complete denial even after seeing one of the fastest recorded tong runs with SW as main dps.

    gee...i think you dont know the difference between legit/non legit. I never said SWs are HAMSTER or cant dish a lot of dps. I just said its not possible to run TONG ( now...lets see how fast it will go after mod 14) legit in this time with a SW. So stop putting words in my mouth, m8.
    BTW: In your 14 min "SW" TONG run....do you really think Boss DPS was from SW? I can see the amount of damage from the GF. The only reason why the SW is in front at the end was the buff at orcus. Try to find another vid, my friend ^^
    At this point I dont think legit/no-legit even matters when you're able to run a 14min tong with a good group. Be my guest, you can run a 24 min tong killing every mob if you prefer that. Personally I dont really care either way. This was a speedrun whether you accept it or not, done with SW as main dps, even if he took orcus buff over the GF. If the GF wanted to be main dps im sure the group wouldnt have mind. Point is, GF wasnt main dps and the run went smoothly and quick. So if you're asking if a SW can do a "legit" run in 12-13 mins without passing any mobs and etc (Which is alot of nitpicking on your end) I'd say IDK personally, but I know many on this forum have said it is possible. 24 min may be average time for you, but on my templock and the groups I usually run with, 15min is the average time.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    @spidey#3367 14 min isnt legit? really? Fastest I've ever seen recorded was 11-12 min with legit groups lol..
    24 mins where? how'd you get 24 mins from a 2:00 min boss fight with SW as main dps? the whole run wasnt even recorded in that 2nd vid lol.

    You tried to throw the SW under the bus, so I called you out on your bs, and yet here you are, still in complete denial even after seeing one of the fastest recorded tong runs with SW as main dps.

    gee...i think you dont know the difference between legit/non legit. I never said SWs are HAMSTER or cant dish a lot of dps. I just said its not possible to run TONG ( now...lets see how fast it will go after mod 14) legit in this time with a SW. So stop putting words in my mouth, m8.
    BTW: In your 14 min "SW" TONG run....do you really think Boss DPS was from SW? I can see the amount of damage from the GF. The only reason why the SW is in front at the end was the buff at orcus. Try to find another vid, my friend ^^
    Sure, I could post a 16 min legit run with SW as main dps if you'd like. Point I was trying to make was that with Sw in your group as a buffer or even main dps, you can run Tong in a reasonable amount of time, and it doesnt have to even be legit or take your average of 24 min or more. So a few min here and there isnt a huge deal to me and I'll say this again; I've seen slower runs with higher dps, this is simply an instance where everyone knew what they were doing and timed everything perfectly. I'm not doubting theres groups that can do better than this, but in my book, this is considered a great and quick run ^^.

    Edit: dont blame only the Sw if he's using some type of weird exploits, because without some interactions from other party members it wouldnt be possible anyhow, so blame the entire group lol.
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User

    done with SW as main dps, even if he took orcus buff over the GF.

    Simple math:

    Add the orcus buff dps to the dps from gf you will see gf makes much more dps in this run. I dont blame anybody. Why should i? I dont care if someone uses exploits. I dont use them. Its just stupid.

    And yes, i would love to see your 16 min run with the SW as real main DPS. You can send me this link thru pm. Cya
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    done with SW as main dps, even if he took orcus buff over the GF.

    Simple math:

    Add the orcus buff dps to the dps from gf you will see gf makes much more dps in this run. I dont blame anybody. Why should i? I dont care if someone uses exploits. I dont use them. Its just stupid.

    And yes, i would love to see your 16 min run with the SW as real main DPS. You can send me this link thru pm. Cya
    I have ran with plenty of players through T9. And only a handful are truly exceptional DPS. I know a couple GWF, GF, TR, SW, CW and HR that always outperform their IL. A truly exceptional DPS will get near 1b on just Orcus. Not many can do that as a main DPS. Most are around 600-750M.


    Usually on my CW I'm around 500M by the end of Orcus with a exceptional main DPS I won't break 300M because they are just pushing out the damage at the right time.

    Typically by the end of a T9 a true main DPS is well over 1.5B an average to above average will be around 1-1.5B. Below average main DPS won't break 1b.

    I went into T9 as a plenty using my CW as a buff DPS without the Orcus buff and still came out on top. I beat out some 17-18K players. This goes back to my initial thoughts that many players to buy there way to end game and if they didn't; they don't have the optimal build for their character.

    As for speed run; a HR would be better for LSS for the speed boost for moving past adds and damage wise, they are still ahead of SW.
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User

    This goes back to my initial thoughts that many players to buy there way to end game and if they didn't; they don't have the optimal build for their character.

    /Sign
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User

    done with SW as main dps, even if he took orcus buff over the GF.

    Simple math:

    Add the orcus buff dps to the dps from gf you will see gf makes much more dps in this run. I dont blame anybody. Why should i? I dont care if someone uses exploits. I dont use them. Its just stupid.

    And yes, i would love to see your 16 min run with the SW as real main DPS. You can send me this link thru pm. Cya
    You act like we dont get that GF has higher dps, I understand that lol. What im saying is you dont need GF as main dps in tong to complete in around 15 min or less. Run with a good SW for once and see for yourself, why do you always need video confirmation? just load up the game, find a good SW and go to tong.
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    You can run tong with any DPS class in 15 minutes. But...this is nothing special my friend.
    I didnt claim that SW can do tong like every other dps class. I dont believe it. Thats all.
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