test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

T9 and CoDG - 16K is not good enough

135

Comments

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User
    I ride the bus for an hour and a half on days that I go to school. Days that I work, it's closer to three hours. my family live 25 miles away. It's a three hour bus ride. One way. So, if one of my uncles has a bar-b-que, I get to spend six hours on the bus in order to spend less than two hours with my family. I guess some people would consider that a convenient excuse for not seeing my family. I find it damned inconvenient.

    I'm on my fourth or fifth guild. Even the "casual friendly" guild that advertise n PE zone chat have their limits, I guess. When SKT dropped I was on my third guild. The guild leader was the only player that could survive the zone. He would spend an hour or so twice a week running guildies thru the opening quests. But when he unlocked MSVA, or even NSVA, he would have to go to PE & find a LFG pug-run. Eventually a couple of guildies caught up, & they would be LFM, instead of LFG. But they still had to go to PE to get a run. Inconvenient was not one of the words I saw in guild chat. I thought we were gonna be over run with HAMSTERS for a while there.

    I started posting to the forums because the longer I played, the less I saw my experience represented in the threads. I'm gonna keep posting it as I see it. Nobody has to like it. Unfortuntely, nobody can dislike it :/ But, they'll just have to pull up their Big Boy Pants and deal with it. I ain't going anywhere. At least not until I finish Ravenloft. I love that gothic horror HAMSTER.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    For those assuming I am asking for a carry by higher GS player have never ran with me or seen how I form groups.

    The way I form groups is first come first serve. I typically grab whoever is available and the main setup I have is 1 Tank, 1 DC and 3 DPS. Typically I'm on my near BiS DC, so I am usually soloing content. T9 and I have even soloed CoDG as a DC, yeah solo healer/buffer. So before you make assumptions about anything know well in advance I have no specific group make up I like to run with.

    Next up is IL requirement. The only thing I have is that you can run the content in a private group. I have taken many players through T9 on my DC, most were DPS and a few others were DCs or Tanks. My only requirement is you try your best and play your role.

    Second, rarely do I fail with any group I create, maybe 3 total failed T9 runs out of hundreds I have formed over the months. Average T9 runs with me on my DC with a 2nd DC is around 15-20 minutes. Same with my CW with only 1 DC, for most groups. Longest T9 I had was 3 hours and that was helping out 3 new players through T9 and teaching them everything. Yeah we beat it and I got 4 UES out of it during double enchantment, so it was worth my time.

    What i was doing on my CW is simply seeing how LFG was after CoDG dropped on PS4. Also, my CW is near BiS other than needing to tweak a few enchantments and getting a legendary mount. Both of which will only add to my IL but is not a game changer for my CW.

    I also was doing this in the Port and outside of my alliance, simply seeing how LFG was. Even with me being 16K on my CW, 14-15K tanks and DC were leaving my group when I was trying to get CoDG run together.

    Since this post I ran a bunch of T9, CoDG, etc...and reality is that NW content here is easy, it is just the mindset you need 17-18K players to beat the latest content. I did a 35 minute T9 on my 15K GF with the rest of the group between 13-14K IL. No wipes, nothing, just a fairly smooth run. Yeah it took 2x as long as quick runs but we didn't use the meta and only had 1 DC that was 13K.

    What this game needs is a revamp to content to make it challenging based on the group overall IL; meaning content gets harder the higher the IL of the group is in the game. So, if you go into T9 with a 17K group, enemies stats are increase so content is not super easy. This way, all players face the same challenge. This would encourage groups include some lower IL players. Also, the dungeon difficulty refreshes few minute, this way, there is no I'm going to unequip X and than go into the dungeon and it is now easier.

  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?
  • itsme#5853 itsme Member Posts: 14 Arc User

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    im 17635 and I am a pretty decent little dps, however i have to make my own groups. you prolly have to do the same. that dam simple, mate.
  • mirajanesitrimirajanesitri Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    15.6k cw mine can 14.50min easy tong as only dps...16.5k sw dps can easy 12-13min it.... gwf 15.2k can easy 14-16min it(have not mastered gwf yet so there is mistakes but still) all im saying is if you want to complete tong and do it in decent time you only require skilled playes who have the right builds and decent gear( i can 16min tong with a 44k base power ac dc on my sw)just saying even if its not wonderful geared support as long as they can play you will finish it in decent time... op dc gf sw/cw/hr+main if the dc is do the op can just use clense to remove cc...2nd boss trap ust move red circle to dwarfs so party dont get perma stun..idk less meta the party more you have to adjust think nubs thinks..but still whatever the case you can finish it under 30min with any support setup if all can play

    yes yes those 17k++til people want speed runs but how many actually get under 14min? i doubt many..see what i do here they try to be elitist but fail hard so no dont bother to much about trash in server..rather make friends with competent people
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    Indeed. Once you get above a certain minimum, there is little correlation between IL and time it takes to run ToNG - skill and well, knowing how to play your class becomes much more important than a thousand or two IL points.

    One of my recent ToNG runs was with a "random" GWF/OP/ACDC/DODC(me)/GF group, with everyone in the 17-18K range. Should have been quick and easy, right ? Well, no - the DPS just wasn't there....the group just barely managed to finish Orcus off before the TempHP pool of the person on ball duty ran out, and well, the build/enchants/etc of some of the people were just plain wrong - total time was over 30 minutes - way higher than you would have expected from the IL.

    Another run was a guild run, with 3 really experienced people, and two not so experienced, with the lowest IL around 14K. Group was GWF/CW/SW/OP/DODC, and despite one small mishap (the OP fell off the platform, so we wiped and restarted the Ras Nsi fight), the total time was just under 20 minutes.

    Lower IL than the first one, but the big difference is that people knew how to build and play their characters.

    Which again brings us back to the original subject of this thread - IL does not make you a better player, but for the DPS classes in particular it sure helps you getting into groups.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.



  • itsme#5853 itsme Member Posts: 14 Arc User

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.



    Well then don't run with them and stop complaining as there is no reason to "when it does not effect you". But i have seen your advice in the past and can not blame anyone that does not want to take it either.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    Maybe I wasnt clear with what I said, nobody is a pain to me. I specifically stated that the game can be a pain in the HAMSTER and a real headache, especially if you spend alot of ad and grinding to get to where you are now (16-17k). Only to be introduced to one dungeon and more grinding in a future module. I think you all took what I said personally and completely out of context. Also, Im in that 16-17k bracket and havent found anyone that undesirable to run with. Its just amatter of you not reading or completely taking what I said out of context.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.



    Well then don't run with them and stop complaining as there is no reason to "when it does not effect you". But i have seen your advice in the past and can not blame anyone that does not want to take it either.
    @itsme#5853 How about you actually read what ppl post for a change. My previous comment had nothing to do with running with 17k players, thats something u cooked up after not reading anything I posted and saw where it said 17k then got triggered lol. What I said was that those high il players tend to run with other high il players, So its not like they are specifically choosing not to run with you. They already have friends who they generally run with anyhow. Why would you change what your doing if its always worked for you. Im not changing the way I do dungeons just for some lowbie who is complaining on the forums.

    @mebengalsfan#9264 was simply posting their opinion of why they dont prefer running with low item level or high il pugs (maybe even pugs in general) or unknowns. and with good reason. They're an unknown. This is what a friends list or an alliance is for. So u dont have to run with unknowns. And again to be fair to the high il players, You're just not going to find many that are going to run with 13k-14k and etc. And we were all in the same spot not too long ago. Instead of whining about 17k players not inv you to tongand other endgame content, how about looking into your alliance, and gaining friends to some high il alliance players. Alliance and guild members typically dont have a problem carrying you since they were carried by other guild/alliance members in the past. If that doesnt work, grindlike the 17k players did, spend zen, and/or work on your build. You'll rarely find a pug group sitting in pe all day thats going to carry u into tong and codg...
  • itsme#5853 itsme Member Posts: 14 Arc User

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.



    Well then don't run with them and stop complaining as there is no reason to "when it does not effect you". But i have seen your advice in the past and can not blame anyone that does not want to take it either.
    @itsme#5853 How about you actually read what ppl post for a change. My previous comment had nothing to do with running with 17k players, thats something u cooked up after not reading anything I posted and saw where it said 17k then got triggered lol. What I said was that those high il players tend to run with other high il players, So its not like they are specifically choosing not to run with you. They already have friends who they generally run with anyhow. Why would you change what your doing if its always worked for you. Im not changing the way I do dungeons just for some lowbie who is complaining on the forums.

    @mebengalsfan#9264 was simply posting their opinion of why they dont prefer running with low item level or high il pugs (maybe even pugs in general) or unknowns. and with good reason. They're an unknown. This is what a friends list or an alliance is for. So u dont have to run with unknowns. And again to be fair to the high il players, You're just not going to find many that are going to run with 13k-14k and etc. And we were all in the same spot not too long ago. Instead of whining about 17k players not inv you to tongand other endgame content, how about looking into your alliance, and gaining friends to some high il alliance players. Alliance and guild members typically dont have a problem carrying you since they were carried by other guild/alliance members in the past. If that doesnt work, grindlike the 17k players did, spend zen, and/or work on your build. You'll rarely find a pug group sitting in pe all day thats going to carry u into tong and codg...
    Well yeah that is the normal in this game and seems to just be getting worse as nothing stays BiS for very long. just look at weapons we get new ones every mod now and it is all just getting to old. By the time we have them upgraded we are on to the next mod and all ready chasing the next BiS rather than getting to use the gear we just worked so hard to get. And then you have the people calling PTW or Elitists because they do make sure to keep a head of the game and make changes as soon as they see whats going on. Most of the players that get thought of as PTW can not be further than the truth. most have done lots of research and testing into what is the best route to take on builds or how to get geared. And then to keep up with the changes they want to run with like minded people that do the same.

    From what i have noticed there are a few on his forum that no mater what the thread is about. They will make attempts to twist words or derail the thread into there own opinion on a subject that they keep trying to bring up over and over. The 3 subjects that keep getting brought up by the same few people are.
    1st. blaming elitists for not being able to run dungeons.
    2nd. Blaming buffs for not being able to run dungeons.
    3rd. Blaming one class having top DPS or there class getting nerfed and not able to run dungeons.
    Not sure if they just read what they "think" they are reading and then twist other thread to meet one of the 3 criteria's. and if not then they start another thread once again just to repeat the same old same with maybe just making the view point of the topic seem like it is about something else.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    Indeed. Once you get above a certain minimum, there is little correlation between IL and time it takes to run ToNG - skill and well, knowing how to play your class becomes much more important than a thousand or two IL points.

    One of my recent ToNG runs was with a "random" GWF/OP/ACDC/DODC(me)/GF group, with everyone in the 17-18K range. Should have been quick and easy, right ? Well, no - the DPS just wasn't there....the group just barely managed to finish Orcus off before the TempHP pool of the person on ball duty ran out, and well, the build/enchants/etc of some of the people were just plain wrong - total time was over 30 minutes - way higher than you would have expected from the IL.

    Another run was a guild run, with 3 really experienced people, and two not so experienced, with the lowest IL around 14K. Group was GWF/CW/SW/OP/DODC, and despite one small mishap (the OP fell off the platform, so we wiped and restarted the Ras Nsi fight), the total time was just under 20 minutes.

    Lower IL than the first one, but the big difference is that people knew how to build and play their characters.

    Which again brings us back to the original subject of this thread - IL does not make you a better player, but for the DPS classes in particular it sure helps you getting into groups.

    there is a difference between guild runs, alliance runs, and open world runs and the type of people you encounter in each sphere. higher il just gives you better odds of having a decent experience.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.




    what weird statements for someone who has a 17k character. did you buy your il then? why do you assume that everyone bought their IL. I know very very few people who bought in. most DID grind it out. I really don't know where you find the people you run with because what you say makes no sense as a whole. I know a few bad high il people but most of them that i know kick butt. the runs in high il parties DO tend to be Faster and more efficient. Lower il parties can also be fast and efficient but unless you are runnign with rockstars that you know and love it is also A LOT more hit and miss. the problem I see with people in general more than not is just not knowing how to build a party. that can result in some frustrating runs.

    I read your post as pandering to a certain group of people here so you don't look bad (fail) lol
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User

    16.5k sw dps can easy 12-13min it....

    Sure....
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    Sure, every 17k+ player is PTW. You can play for years grinding and once you reach 17k you will get a brain freeze, forget everything you learned about your class, forget how to earn AD ingame and spent huge amounts of money to stay geared. Sarcasm off.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,560 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    asterotg said:

    Sure, every 17k+ player is PTW. You can play for years grinding and once you reach 17k you will get a brain freeze, forget everything you learned about your class, forget how to earn AD ingame and spent huge amounts of money to stay geared. Sarcasm off.

    This is what I'm afraid off !

    Now that I'm going towards 16.7k, I'm considering quitting. Power creep and new mod... Add a thing there, some stuff there, one mistake, you get over 16,999 and 5 years of game knowledge gone. And no way I can afford my char value either!
  • itsme#5853 itsme Member Posts: 14 Arc User

    16.5k sw dps can easy 12-13min it....

    Sure....
    Guess you have never ran with a SW that knows how to play there class then.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    16.5k sw dps can easy 12-13min it....

    Sure....
    Guess you have never ran with a SW that knows how to play there class then.
    12-13 min? I really, really doubt you can do that without using exploits or at least some buggy powers. I'd say 14-15 min was pretty much the minimum for a totally legit run.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • itsme#5853 itsme Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    16.5k sw dps can easy 12-13min it....

    Sure....
    Guess you have never ran with a SW that knows how to play there class then.
    12-13 min? I really, really doubt you can do that without using exploits or at least some buggy powers. I'd say 14-15 min was pretty much the minimum for a totally legit run.
    12-13 minutes is considered a speed run now go look up the definition of a speed run !!!. But case in point is there is no case when it comes to the OP and his rant over item level. This is nothing new and no reason it should not be. If you are a random player making a random group then all you have to gauge another random on is item level. But why anyone would go random and expect anything less should be the real question. This whole thread is pretty much just one person making a foolish attempt to make/join a party then based the results on nothing but common knowledge.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User



    what weird statements for someone who has a 17k character. did you buy your il then? why do you assume that everyone bought their IL. I know very very few people who bought in. most DID grind it out. I really don't know where you find the people you run with because what you say makes no sense as a whole. I know a few bad high il people but most of them that i know kick butt. the runs in high il parties DO tend to be Faster and more efficient. Lower il parties can also be fast and efficient but unless you are runnign with rockstars that you know and love it is also A LOT more hit and miss. the problem I see with people in general more than not is just not knowing how to build a party. that can result in some frustrating runs.

    I read your post as pandering to a certain group of people here so you don't look bad (fail) lol

    I played my DC from level one up to IL 14.5K. I got a nice bonus and dropped a bit into my DC. Not a lot but enough to improve my DC to around 15.8K and than I grinded her up to 17K+. I did put some money but not like others have.

    Such as in T9 with a 18K GWF and he says, this is weird, after spending $5K on my character you would think I should be beating a 15K SW. Not once but quite a few times I have seen such comments from 17-18K players. I have ran with a bunch of players who simply don't have the time to invest but have the funds to invest and they always tend to under perform than those that are between 15-16K IL. I know not all players are like that but it seems when I need a single role to fill in my group I get a Pay to Advance player that does not know how to properly build up their character or play them. Just bad luck probably but given how often this has happen to me over the past year, I would state this is probably more common than many realize or are willing to admit.



    @mebengalsfan#9264 was simply posting their opinion of why they dont prefer running with low item level or high il pugs (maybe even pugs in general) or unknowns. and with good reason. They're an unknown. This is what a friends list or an alliance is for. So u dont have to run with unknowns. And again to be fair to the high il players, You're just not going to find many that are going to run with 13k-14k and etc. And we were all in the same spot not too long ago. Instead of whining about 17k players not inv you to tongand other endgame content, how about looking into your alliance, and gaining friends to some high il alliance players. Alliance and guild members typically dont have a problem carrying you since they were carried by other guild/alliance members in the past. If that doesnt work, grindlike the 17k players did, spend zen, and/or work on your build. You'll rarely find a pug group sitting in pe all day thats going to carry u into tong and codg...

    I have plenty of friends. I been playing other games as of late and logged in the other day just to get my daily key. While I was logged on a friend sent me a tell asking if I wanted to a T9 run. I joined, we did 3 runs and than I logged.

    Again, I was simply testing the PUG waters at the Port and it was not a good experience at that time. Just like it was not good when FBI was launched or MPSC. It is what it is and it is not a surprise that so many think IL = ability in this game.



    micky1p00 said:

    asterotg said:

    Sure, every 17k+ player is PTW. You can play for years grinding and once you reach 17k you will get a brain freeze, forget everything you learned about your class, forget how to earn AD ingame and spent huge amounts of money to stay geared. Sarcasm off.

    This is what I'm afraid off !

    Now that I'm going towards 16.7k, I'm considering quitting. Power creep and new mod... Add a thing there, some stuff there, one mistake, you get over 16,999 and 5 years of game knowledge gone. And no way I can afford my char value either!
    IL does not impact your ability to deliver in this game. If you are good you are good, IL won't change that.

    This game though does need an overhaul and these fixes the devs do is just delaying a full revamp to this game.

    I like NWO but it is well getting old and I have only played for about 2 years. I played DCUO for 4 years and I left that because things were getting old.

    MMOs in general are getting old and it is why I'm playing solo player games that definitely are more engaging and definitely more entertaining the doing the same mission or dungeon 5+ times a day/week/month, etc..

  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.




    what weird statements for someone who has a 17k character. did you buy your il then? why do you assume that everyone bought their IL. I know very very few people who bought in. most DID grind it out. I really don't know where you find the people you run with because what you say makes no sense as a whole. I know a few bad high il people but most of them that i know kick butt. the runs in high il parties DO tend to be Faster and more efficient. Lower il parties can also be fast and efficient but unless you are runnign with rockstars that you know and love it is also A LOT more hit and miss. the problem I see with people in general more than not is just not knowing how to build a party. that can result in some frustrating runs.

    I read your post as pandering to a certain group of people here so you don't look bad (fail) lol
    Most ppl I know at high il have done both the grinding and paying. Its not like u cant do both in the game. I have one guildmate out of the entire guild that hasnt payed a cent on the game or at the very least payed very little in comparison to the rest of my guild, and they are like 14-15k. Sure it can be done, might take longer, but that doesnt mean someone who pays more vs someone who grinds out the content is any better or worse. You'd be surprise how unique ppl are..

    Theres no reason to believe the p2w person has less knowledge about his/her class simply because they decided to pay more. It just means, they decided to pay more over spending yrs grinding. Sometimes it is the case however, if ppl want to spent alot of money to get through content faster then so be it, just means they might have to get advice from a friend or someone more knowledgeable about how the class works. Doesnt really affect anyone in the longrun tbh.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    16.5k sw dps can easy 12-13min it....

    Sure....
    It has been done,In fact ive been in plenty of groups with my templock and they just didnt want me to dps, they only want me to heal and buff. then on boss phase I go single target and become top paingiver. especially in fbi runs, in the beginning im templock. giving the main dps a potential 100mil head start. then on hati i end up catching up just to show sw isnt as underpowered as some want to believe. I go back to temp giving main dps another boost then wipe the floor on boss phase once more.then again in a high il party with a very good dps gwf or hr, its a different story, but there arent a whole lot of good gwfs in this game. Ive seen pretty good hrs though. outside of buff parties is where u really see how bad ppl play...
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,560 Arc User

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.




    what weird statements for someone who has a 17k character. did you buy your il then? why do you assume that everyone bought their IL. I know very very few people who bought in. most DID grind it out. I really don't know where you find the people you run with because what you say makes no sense as a whole. I know a few bad high il people but most of them that i know kick butt. the runs in high il parties DO tend to be Faster and more efficient. Lower il parties can also be fast and efficient but unless you are runnign with rockstars that you know and love it is also A LOT more hit and miss. the problem I see with people in general more than not is just not knowing how to build a party. that can result in some frustrating runs.

    I read your post as pandering to a certain group of people here so you don't look bad (fail) lol
    Most ppl I know at high il have done both the grinding and paying. Its not like u cant do both in the game. I have one guildmate out of the entire guild that hasnt payed a cent on the game or at the very least payed very little in comparison to the rest of my guild, and they are like 14-15k. Sure it can be done, might take longer, but that doesnt mean someone who pays more vs someone who grinds out the content is any better or worse. You'd be surprise how unique ppl are..

    Theres no reason to believe the p2w person has less knowledge about his/her class simply because they decided to pay more. It just means, they decided to pay more over spending yrs grinding. Sometimes it is the case however, if ppl want to spent alot of money to get through content faster then so be it, just means they might have to get advice from a friend or someone more knowledgeable about how the class works. Doesnt really affect anyone in the longrun tbh.
    And more so, I've seen long time players like "I've played since release" "I've played since beta" or I've played when there were no cars, only horses and we used abacus to play and pigeons for internet, that have no clue what they are doing.

    There are people on the extreme side of things on each end. But I think we all agree that the OP generalization and assumptions are just wrong, mostly trying to insult and put in bad light highly geared players. At the same time a statement could have been "In all the guilds I've been the high geared players take the lower geared to runs without consideration of IL" (just an example), or most of high geared players know their class and play better than lower geared players...
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    But I think we all agree that the OP generalization and assumptions are just wrong, mostly trying to insult and put in bad light highly geared players...

    Hardly. Just because a few people take it personally doesn't mean he's trying to be insulting. And he's clearly not trying to put highly geared players in a bad light. SOME players who are highly geared do that themselves. Trust me, they don't need anyone's help with that. They were already making a bad impression before they even crossed Neverwinter Fields.

    You can put a scrub in epic gear, but you can't always get the scrub out.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,560 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    micky1p00 said:

    But I think we all agree that the OP generalization and assumptions are just wrong, mostly trying to insult and put in bad light highly geared players...

    Hardly. Just because a few people take it personally doesn't mean he's trying to be insulting. And he's clearly not trying to put highly geared players in a bad light. SOME players who are highly geared do that themselves. Trust me, they don't need anyone's help with that. They were already making a bad impression before they even crossed Neverwinter Fields.

    You can put a scrub in epic gear, but you can't always get the scrub out.
    Then explain to me what is this:


    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.

    If you write that once you hit 17k you became:

    1. without proper enchants or gear.
    2. Lack awareness.
    3. Have the wrong mindset and run with only elite players, thought it's contradictory to the rest of the statements, because elite=the best.
    4. And lack skill.


    Where is the " clearly not trying to put highly geared players in a bad light" ?

    Let me quote again:
    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above.


    If that's not generalization of 17k+ and putting a group in bad light, then what you need to write ?


    There is a difference between your "some" which we have everywhere, there are some crappy low geared players, and there are some great, the same with well geared, and etc... It's called the normal distribution / bell curve / Gauss curve
    Yet, this is not what was written and quoted above.


    The description above may apply to some random pugs, at any gear level, but as is, it is exactly elitism at it's worst. The writer grouped exactly the same way as others and got into the same group, but all the rest in the group are skills, gear buyers with no awareness. Who said that someone in that group didn't think about the OP the same way?
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    That's post #60 something, and I still have no problem maintaining my comment based on the qualifiers he used and the overall context of the thread, but it's sufficient to say we disagree - which was my point. You said everyone thinks he's wrong, and I don't.

    I actually agree with a number of points in the counter posts in this thread - just not the hostile tone in which they were presented, nor with some of the fevered accusations.
    micky1p00 said:

    The description above may apply to some random pugs, at any gear level

    Yes, I agree - even at 18K. That's the essential point here. bis, sky high IL - those aren't the only qualities of an exceptional player, but there are plenty of players who propagate the belief that these are all that matter. It's not that uncommon to meet someone in Neverwinter who has the stats of a champion but the soul of a scrub.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    micky1p00 said:

    To be fair to some of the elitist 17k-18k players, this game can be a real headache and pain in the HAMSTER. Not because of low geared players in your group but simply because cryptic :D. I think some of them feel like they actually have a purpose after hitting 17k or whatever il, simply because they were in the same spot as lfg 14k lowbies some mods ago. I can understand how it feels to be locked out of content,since i do main one of the less desirable classes.

    Point is, farming, spending ridiculous amounts of ad, grinding boons, ranking enchantments, etc, can all mess with your head to the point that your brain becomes a scrambled mesh of grits and these type tend to run alongside one another. was I making a point here really or did my scrambled mesh of a brain speak for me?

    How can they be a pain or even effect you? If 17/18 k players want to run with others 17/18 players then there should be zero impact to your playing.
    I personally hate running with other 17-18K players I don't know and here is why...

    1) IL <> proper gear or enchantments <> better time in completing content
    2) Lack of awareness, because the player has bought their way to end game they lack awareness and use to many scrolls or spend time in the run complaining about things instead of doing their job.
    3) Mindset - the 17-18K players mindset are we only want to run with other elite players that are equal to our IL. From what I have seen, a 14-16K player who grinds out their character tend to be better and know how to get the most out of their character
    4) Longer runs - most random 17-18K IL players I pick up result in our 20 minute or less T9 runs taking 35 minutes. Why does my primary group where if we plug one friends we typically for a random has a significant increase in our time if we do a random pickup of a 17-18K player? Lack of skill!

    I'm 17K+ on my DC and yeah I hate being 17K just for the reasons I listed above. I find that even with me being 17K, some people want a 18K DC for CoDG and T9. The difference between me and a 18K DC is not all that much, just the difference between my CW at 16 and 17K is not all that much of a difference. IL <> improvement in damage. Knowledge of how to play the class and positioning, etc... matter more. Try telling that to a 17-18K IL pug you pick up, most don't want to hear as they don't want to hear how to improve their character after spending X amount of money on hitting IL 18K.




    what weird statements for someone who has a 17k character. did you buy your il then? why do you assume that everyone bought their IL. I know very very few people who bought in. most DID grind it out. I really don't know where you find the people you run with because what you say makes no sense as a whole. I know a few bad high il people but most of them that i know kick butt. the runs in high il parties DO tend to be Faster and more efficient. Lower il parties can also be fast and efficient but unless you are runnign with rockstars that you know and love it is also A LOT more hit and miss. the problem I see with people in general more than not is just not knowing how to build a party. that can result in some frustrating runs.

    I read your post as pandering to a certain group of people here so you don't look bad (fail) lol
    Most ppl I know at high il have done both the grinding and paying. Its not like u cant do both in the game. I have one guildmate out of the entire guild that hasnt payed a cent on the game or at the very least payed very little in comparison to the rest of my guild, and they are like 14-15k. Sure it can be done, might take longer, but that doesnt mean someone who pays more vs someone who grinds out the content is any better or worse. You'd be surprise how unique ppl are..

    Theres no reason to believe the p2w person has less knowledge about his/her class simply because they decided to pay more. It just means, they decided to pay more over spending yrs grinding. Sometimes it is the case however, if ppl want to spent alot of money to get through content faster then so be it, just means they might have to get advice from a friend or someone more knowledgeable about how the class works. Doesnt really affect anyone in the longrun tbh.
    And more so, I've seen long time players like "I've played since release" "I've played since beta" or I've played when there were no cars, only horses and we used abacus to play and pigeons for internet, that have no clue what they are doing.

    There are people on the extreme side of things on each end. But I think we all agree that the OP generalization and assumptions are just wrong, mostly trying to insult and put in bad light highly geared players. At the same time a statement could have been "In all the guilds I've been the high geared players take the lower geared to runs without consideration of IL" (just an example), or most of high geared players know their class and play better than lower geared players...
    Well...after playing the game since beta and having absolutely no clue of what they're doing, means its either intentional or maybe theyre just slow (no offense to special needs ppl). My answer to that is let them do what they want. Its a free country.

    The OP simply made a generalization based on his/her own experience. and im somewhat leaning with the OP in this discussion. I personally dont see alot of CWs in the endgame content any longer. Sure I've run with an MOF or two, but generally compared to another dps class, I just dont see them as much. In fact, I doubt i have ran with a CW as main dps in tong. MOF is still highly requested in endgame dungeons, however i doubt many enjoy playing a support role as much as they would like to be the main dps role. Could be the reason I dont see many CWs in endgame content. If i did form a group, I'd have no problem inv them if they were hdps or MOF (just play a role is all i care about).. What the OP suffers from is not exclusive to CWs tbh. Any class can face similar type of discrimination. My suggestion to the OP would be to make it a habit of forming your own parties, so you wont have to face that type of attitude. Also, run more with friends. Your friends not gonna tell you (hurr durr u need to be 17k or im quitting hurr durr). Friends generally dont treat friends in that manner. Friends usually try to help u out or give u constructive advise. At the end of the day we're all playing the same game..

    Edit: HAMSTER the meta, I watch TRs dps, HRs dps, ive seen GFs dps and yes even our SWs. And in alot of those runs (not all) you can complete endgame content faster than a dumbass meta. Its thanks to players in this game that say HAMSTER it, were not getting bogged down by what seems good on paper...
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User


    12-13 minutes is considered a speed run now go look up the definition of a speed run !!!.

    True. But not with an SW and not if you play legit. But thx for your deffinition. Finally i know what speed run means. Thx.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,560 Arc User

    That's post #60 something,

    Yet the point stands.


    and I still have no problem maintaining my comment based on the qualifiers he used and the overall context of the thread, but it's sufficient to say we disagree - which was my point. You said everyone thinks he's wrong, and I don't.

    Generalizations are a HAMSTER, aren't they.


    micky1p00 said:

    The description above may apply to some random pugs, at any gear level

    Yes, I agree - even at 18K. That's the essential point here. bis, sky high IL - those aren't the only qualities of an exceptional player, but there are plenty of players who propagate the belief that these are all that matter. It's not that uncommon to meet someone in Neverwinter who has the stats of a champion but the soul of a scrub.
    Common or not, humans, and human skill are distributed in a very known way:



    We are all mostly average, some above, some bellow, some have epic skills, others need all the help they can get.

    Now, comes the questions, will on average a high item level player will perform better than low level?
    Does something special happen at 17k ? That we suddenly loose our skill (does something break the normal distribution?)
Sign In or Register to comment.