I am of the view, that if Cryptic was genuinely solely interested in decreasing the amount of AD in the market, they would drastically clamp down on the profits being earned from Mastercrafting, create new and more AD sinks that the player base actually desire (Cryptic needs only read through this thread, and in particular the AD changes thread for numerous salient suggestions; it's free too!), and at the very least include the economics concept of supply & demand in their decision making - something they appear to have completely disregarded. (If anyone seriously expects to see affordable legendary mounts, and companion legendary upgrade costs below 1 million AD, then I hear someone's got a plot of land to sell in Arizona that'll become prime beach estate any day now....)
I never said that I think that decreasing the amount of AD was Cryptic's sole interest, I only said that despite previous changes to AD income that caused the community to see the end of the world ended in even more AD in the system than ever.
As a relatively new player (tried the game for a bit several years ago, lost interest quickly and am trying it out again), the random dungeon feature so far has been an extremely negative experience, especially early on in a character's career. Essentially you get in cue, get dropped into one of 2 or 3 dungeons repeatedly, and have to try and desperately keep up in a futile footrace with random lvl 70's (equipped with movement enhancements) that are only interested in getting to the end as fast as possible and are not in the slightest bit interested in the fact that someone new to the dungeon might want or need to take their time a bit, or worse, have to deal (solo) with the train of mobs left behind by the sprinters...
How's this for a nice cherry on the top: after they sprint to the end boss, they start sending you threats to get out of the instance because you're taking too long to get to the encounter and they're too impatient to wait for you to find/fight your way to the end room - yeah, I actually got a threat from one jerk who said he would report me for being afk in a dungeon when I was trying desperately to fight/survive/find my way to the last room in an unfamiliar dungeon.
Needless to say, my initial experiences with random dungeons was nearly enough to make me lose interest in playing again. Skirmishes aren't quite as bad since everyone more or less has to work together in a smaller area (a couple of skirmishes still end up being races between anonymous randoms that are interested in only getting to the end as fast as possible).
Making this a 'feature' that forces players to put up with this on a regular basis to have access to AD has got to be one of the worst ideas I've ever seen in an online game.
As a relatively new player (tried the game for a bit several years ago, lost interest and am trying it out again), the random dungeon feature so far has been an extremely negative experience - ESPECIALLY in the early phase of the game for newcomers.
Invariably you get dropped in with random lvl 70's (equipped with movement enhancements) that are only interested in getting to the end as fast as possible and are not in the slightest bit interested in the fact that someone new to the dungeon might want or need to take their time a bit. There's simply no way the newer player can keep up, especially if they have to deal solo with the train of mobs left behind/ignored by the sprinter.
The cherry on top - I had one speed racer actually do this: they race to the end, get impatient because I couldn't catch up to him fast enough (I was struggling to fight off/stay alive through all the mobs he left behind, then find my way to the end in an unfamiliar multi-level dungeon) send me a tell threatening me that they would report me for being afk in a dungeon. I was too busy getting through the mobs to reply immediately. Eventually I choose to just leave the instance on my own rather than deal with nonsense.
This was nearly enough to make me consider whether this game was worth it. All in all the random dungeon experience has been a joke; forcing players to go through a similar experience repeatedly to get a decent supply of AD is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen.
I'm sorry you had this experience. I will admit that I and my wife tend to sprint through the dungeons. However, we're also mindful that lower level players can't carve their way through the mobs by themselves. So we tend to kill everything along the way (though sometimes we do group mobs a bit). Anything not killed directly by one of our characters is either killed by our companions or left in a severely injured state. We also don't get impatient with other players who can't run as fast as we can. (We play warlocks with a 3350 movement bonus. When we shadow slip, we move faster than most people on legendary mounts.) Anyway, I hope you'll stick with the game and just know that there are players that don't mind the time lower level characters (and newer players) take to run through the dungeons. Not only that, but we often feel a bit bad about leaving a mostly empty dungeon for those players to run through since that's pretty boring. Hopefully, these changes will improve the situation for both people like us and people like you.
... the random dungeon feature so far has been an extremely negative experience - ESPECIALLY in the early phase of the game for newcomers.
Setting a 14K player loose in the Cloak Tower is more of a menace than Vansi. They either get lower level players killed, or they ruin the run for them.
Random: Leveling Queue — All pre level 70 content as well as Illusionist's Gambit (Master) and Dread Legion
At first I thought this meant that only pre-level 70 characters could run these. I kind of mentioned this earlier, but I really don't see why that shouldn't be the case. pre-level 70s aren't allowed in HighK content, so why are HighKs allowed in pre-level 70 content? They. Don't. Belong. There.
70s have their own versions of those dungeons. If they can't run them, that's their problem - though to be fair, the only content that new-intermediate 70s can really run are things like: Karrundax, Master of the Hunt, Dread Legion, Regular Mad Wizard's Lair, and ToDG. They can run PoM too, but they've got little hope of earning Gold in there. Those are the areas that should be open to characters with an IL of 7000-9000.
I think a good rule of thumb is - if you can speed run an entire dungeon/skirmish solo, you don't belong there. If you can't solo portions of a dungeon/skirmish, you don't belong there. If you can solo at least a portion of a dungeon/skirmish, you're right where you belong.
...we're also mindful that lower level players can't carve their way through the mobs by themselves. So we tend to kill everything along the way (though sometimes we do group mobs a bit). Anything not killed directly by one of our characters is either killed by our companions or left in a severely injured state.
While this is a lot more considerate than speed scumming, it still makes the content a real drag for those lower level players.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be critical since you're obviously making an effort to accommodate the lower characters you get queued with. That's one way to handle that huge disparity in levels.
The only other considerate methods I've seen are: - the 70 lags behind the other two and lets them fight while the 70 helps "thin the herd," a bit. - the 70 alternates between mob squashing and observer. Everyone gets a turn. - the 70 fights alongside the rest of the party - weakening enemies to the point where the other two can dispatch them, though that's impossible for really highK players who OHK everything just by looking at them.
And all three of those methods are a real drag for 70s.
I think two of the most irritating players to be stuck with are on either extreme: - the slow, low level character who keeps stepping on leg traps and is too miserly or poorly prepared to use an injury kit, and has a penchant for exploration, and - the highK narcissist dressed in shiny pants, underwear, or a courtesan's loincloth who has a throne quickslotted
...we're also mindful that lower level players can't carve their way through the mobs by themselves. So we tend to kill everything along the way (though sometimes we do group mobs a bit). Anything not killed directly by one of our characters is either killed by our companions or left in a severely injured state.
While this is a lot more considerate than speed scumming, it still makes the content a real drag for those lower level players.
I acknowledged this. I'm not happy about it. I've been the lower level player paired with well-equipped 70's who ends up doing nothing but running through an empty dungeon. It's boring as hell, not at all fun, and you end up glad when it's over. Now I'm often the well-equipped 70 who ends up clearing the dungeon in under 5 minutes. When my wife and I are both on our warlocks, it's even worse (for the lower level player ... and the poor mobs who don't stand a chance and who would probably fail a morale check instantly if such a mechanic were possible).
Don't take this wrong, but there's no way that I'm going to attempt your other suggestions. I would be bored to tears and the lower level player would probably get frustrated that I'm not helping out (or not helping out much). With the way things currently are, the best thing everyone can do when they're so poorly matched is to just end everyone's misery and finish the dungeon as quickly as possible.
I am of the view, that if Cryptic was genuinely solely interested in decreasing the amount of AD in the market, they would drastically clamp down on the profits being earned from Mastercrafting, create new and more AD sinks that the player base actually desire (Cryptic needs only read through this thread, and in particular the AD changes thread for numerous salient suggestions; it's free too!), and at the very least include the economics concept of supply & demand in their decision making - something they appear to have completely disregarded. (If anyone seriously expects to see affordable legendary mounts, and companion legendary upgrade costs below 1 million AD, then I hear someone's got a plot of land to sell in Arizona that'll become prime beach estate any day now....)
I never said that I think that decreasing the amount of AD was Cryptic's sole interest, I only said that despite previous changes to AD income that caused the community to see the end of the world ended in even more AD in the system than ever.
master crafting isn't creating new ad. it's just recycling ad that was already there. the rq system is pumping new ad into the economy
I am grateful that you are dinging those who change characters without exiting a q. That is a very nice change.
Can we get something done to those who kill Thoon Hulks? Maybe a 90% damage debuff and 50% movement reduction for 5 minutes? The Thoon Hulks green blood sticks to your armor and weapons, making it impossible to fight effectively! With a dubuff icon of a dunce hat? And your companion repeatedly says, "I am with stupid?"
I ignore people who are poor/AFK players. Can you respect my ignore list when you create my group in RQ? I keep getting paired with people I ignored.
While this is a lot more considerate than speed scumming, it still makes the content a real drag for those lower level players.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be critical since you're obviously making an effort to accommodate the lower characters you get queued with. That's one way to handle that huge disparity in levels.
The only other considerate methods I've seen are: - the 70 lags behind the other two and lets them fight while the 70 helps "thin the herd," a bit. - the 70 alternates between mob squashing and observer. Everyone gets a turn. - the 70 fights alongside the rest of the party - weakening enemies to the point where the other two can dispatch them, though that's impossible for really highK players who OHK everything just by looking at them.
And all three of those methods are a real drag for 70s.
I think two of the most irritating players to be stuck with are on either extreme: - the slow, low level character who keeps stepping on leg traps and is too miserly or poorly prepared to use an injury kit, and has a penchant for exploration, and - the highK narcissist dressed in shiny pants, underwear, or a courtesan's loincloth who has a throne quickslotted
Perspective is the most important thing. There is no great answer, but as has been stated, the best thing overall is to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible, since the primary reason people use the RQ is AD rewards.
If you want to explore a dungeon, Q it up solo. You can do that.
I had a cry baby who did not know how to send a tell. If they had asked me to "slow down" or "let me explore a bit", then I would have no problem allowing it. Instead, after the first few fights, they did not move. When we were at the end of the dungeon, they did not move until someone went to them. Then they used the "say" command to cry about how we went thru the dungeon. They finally moved up to the end boss and used say again "F*** Off".
It is important to know how to use /party and /tell commands. If you do not know know how to use the pixie dust trail to follow quests, then learn that important skill. It allows you to go through dungeons more efficiently.
Let people know what you prefer for the dungeon. Worst case, they speed through it. With all the stuff going on in the world, this is No Big Deal.
...the best thing overall is to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible...
Translation: Sprint to the end and AFK for several minutes while the character 10,000 item levels lower tramps along alone. Nice.
Two things: - Standing there in the circle doesn't make things go faster. In some cases, and with certain players, it just ensures the run will take longer. If I'm in a dungeon with some tryhard running amuck up ahead, I generally take my time even if I'm in there with my SW or GWF - especially if there's a slower player around. I'm not interested in racing if it means someone's going to get left behind, so I don't even bother trying to keep up. I stick with the slower character. We open all the chests, visit all the skill checks, and ignore the one up ahead. He/she's just going to go AFK anyway, so who cares. If we're trailing a scummer, after I finish blocking her/him, I'll initiate a kick if the option comes up. - Tryhards who sprint/sslip ahead to slaughter everything because they think they're the only ones capable of killing anything are just kidding themselves. It's not like the other two CAN'T kill the same stuff. They're simply not given the chance. It's obnoxious, and frankly, a +10K running maniacally around the Cloak Tower OHKing everything looks pretty silly.
Yeah, I occasionally meet new players who like to wander, or who take a dozen swings to kill a goon, but they're incredibly rare. By the end of an entire month, I can count on one hand the number of instances like that, and I'd still have fingers left over.
So no, I don't think sticking with lower characters and letting them get some kills slows things down all that much. Most of the time they kill grunts pretty quick - tankier enemies too if you hit them first. If your teammate's attack is passing through an enemy a split second after you kill it, chances are pretty good you're not doing them any favors, and you're simply being obnoxious.
But whatever - it's kind of pointless to suggest that people might want to be more considerate of other human beings in an MMO. I think what this highlights though, is that level 70s really don't belong in the leveling dungeons with pre-70s. The idea that they're somehow going to behave any differently once mod 14 hits is silly. I hope the devs consider excluding them from those dungeons just like they already do for the leveling skirmishes.
I don't do the random leveling dungeon because I feel like I'll be either the jerk who runs ahead and leaves the newbie/lowbie far behind, or the patronizing guy babysitting the newbie/lowbie as they painstakingly whittle down the trash. There is very little middle ground when a level 70 can one-shot an entire group of trash mobs with an aoe encounter.
Sadly, I am seeing some of this in VT also. The group runs ahead, gets to the end while leaving some trash mobs behind, and the poor newbie that queued up for VT is still trying to figure out how to get past the two cubes.
... the patronizing guy babysitting the newbie/lowbie as they painstakingly whittle down the trash...
It really does feel patronizing sometimes. But it can be engaging to find ways to help them out without coming across like that. For instance, while they're dispatching the grunts, I keep an eye out for an enemy that can take a hit, or if there are six enemies, I kill four of them - stuff like that. But it's not usually like that for me. Most of the time I queue with lower characters, they handle themselves just fine if I keep my distance.
I think it's good to remember that millions of lower level players run this content every day without some HighK helicopter nanny to guide them through.
...the best thing overall is to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible...
Translation: Sprint to the end and AFK for several minutes while the character 10,000 item levels lower tramps along alone. Nice.
Two things: - Standing there in the circle doesn't make things go faster. In some cases, and with certain players, it just ensures the run will take longer. If I'm in a dungeon with some tryhard running amuck up ahead, I generally take my time even if I'm in there with my SW or GWF - especially if there's a slower player around. I'm not interested in racing if it means someone's going to get left behind, so I don't even bother trying to keep up. I stick with the slower character. We open all the chests, visit all the skill checks, and ignore the one up ahead. He/she's just going to go AFK anyway, so who cares. If we're trailing a scummer, after I finish blocking her/him, I'll initiate a kick if the option comes up. - Tryhards who sprint/sslip ahead to slaughter everything because they think they're the only ones capable of killing anything are just kidding themselves. It's not like the other two CAN'T kill the same stuff. They're simply not given the chance. It's obnoxious, and frankly, a +10K running maniacally around the Cloak Tower OHKing everything looks pretty silly.
Yeah, I occasionally meet new players who like to wander, or who take a dozen swings to kill a goon, but they're incredibly rare. By the end of an entire month, I can count on one hand the number of instances like that, and I'd still have fingers left over.
So no, I don't think sticking with lower characters and letting them get some kills slows things down all that much. Most of the time they kill grunts pretty quick - tankier enemies too if you hit them first. If your teammate's attack is passing through an enemy a split second after you kill it, chances are pretty good you're not doing them any favors, and you're simply being obnoxious.
But whatever - it's kind of pointless to suggest that people might want to be more considerate of other human beings in an MMO. I think what this highlights though, is that level 70s really don't belong in the leveling dungeons with pre-70s. The idea that they're somehow going to behave any differently once mod 14 hits is silly. I hope the devs consider excluding them from those dungeons just like they already do for the leveling skirmishes.
haha...you are too much. You make it sound as though most level 70's with high iLevel are inconsiderate. Yet you are inconsiderate and waste their time. Did it occur to you that maybe they wanted to get through an easy quick dungeon while their spouse bathed their child. Then they wanted to read their child a bed time story? That you wasted 10 minutes of their time meant their spouse put the child to bed. And they lost the time with their kid.
This knife cuts both ways. Maybe you should think a little more about others and not just about yourself. LOL =p
You make it sound as though most level 70's with high iLevel are inconsiderate. Yet you are inconsiderate and waste their time.
Trust me. I do it with great consideration.
Besides, like I said. No one's getting out of there ahead of the slowest team mate, and I always enter the circle with the team - the TEAM - not some irrelevant prima donna AFK up ahead.
It is good that random queue bonus now includes seals of brave? But dungeon that dropped seals of protector are still droppping them (at least queue description says so). It is not clear if intentional or triansitional state.
1. Will the seals of protector be replaced by seals of brave in dungeon drop at time of patch? I would like if they drop seals of brave. The seals protector now could be used only to convert to seals of brave anyway.
The current situation is the MAJOR NERF if we consider AD salvage income, guild mark income from equipment dontations, and shard buying. It is cut 3 times because seals need to be converted to seal of brave at cost of 3x, and only then used. 3 times more dungeons are required to achieve the same result under new system. It is much harder to earn RAD in new system, and this makes it harder again.
2. I also request some item (for example just 1 copper or seal of adventurer at other seal vendor), that could be bought for seals for elements and seals for protector at rate 1x. I have remaining 1-2 seals of elements on some characters, and they cannot be removed. The same should be done for seals of protector to seals for brave conversion. Or just make obsolete seals discardable.
3. Allow mass conversion of seals of protector to seal of brave with slider. I have 1200 seals, I need to click 1200 times to spend them all (double click on seal, mouse move, click, mouse move back). And unless you fix 1 item, it has to be done after every dungeon.
4. While we are on mass operations, PLEASE, PLEASE make bags mass openable (add open all action). I have about 2k of leadership bags on all characters at 2*rp-stones items event. My hand REALLY HURT after I open all of them. And it does not make sense to open them outside of that event. Bots do not have this problem, but human do. So not having this action is anti-human rather than anti-bot measure in the game.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
I am grateful that you are dinging those who change characters without exiting a q. That is a very nice change.
Can we get something done to those who kill Thoon Hulks? Maybe a 90% damage debuff and 50% movement reduction for 5 minutes? The Thoon Hulks green blood sticks to your armor and weapons, making it impossible to fight effectively! With a dubuff icon of a dunce hat? And your companion repeatedly says, "I am with stupid?"
I ignore people who are poor/AFK players. Can you respect my ignore list when you create my group in RQ? I keep getting paired with people I ignored.
Are the people killing the hulks intentionally griefing or just not aware of what they're supposed to be doing with the hulks? That makes a difference.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Are the people killing the hulks intentionally griefing or just not aware of what they're supposed to be doing with the hulks? That makes a difference.
When I am doing Thrones, I always say as the 6 seconds tick down before the skirmish, "Please do not kill the THOON HULKS." If I notice people killing the Thoon Hulks, I call them out. The issue seems to be that they do not read English. It happens at least 30% of the time now. Maybe it would be better to have 20 second stun with large flashing words in their mother tongue telling them they are not supposed to kill the Thoon Hulks. Please run them into the shield or doors.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
And it is entirely possible that they are not reading chat at all. No one should be penalized for running content. If they are doing it wrong they shouldn't be beaten with a stick during the encounter.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
...the best thing overall is to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible...
Translation: Sprint to the end and AFK for several minutes while the character 10,000 item levels lower tramps along alone. Nice.
I used to see this quite often. However, it has been quite a while since I have observed this. I, myself, do not do this. It's rude and it slows things down. It's in my own self-interest to help the lower level or lower item level player out and make sure they can get through the dungeon smoothly. Yes, I'm often out in front - sometimes way out in front - but I'm killing 95% of the monsters and anything left alive in my wake either is mostly dead or decided it wanted to live and stayed away from me. My ranger has a 4050 movement bonus, my paladin is up to 3100, and mine and my wife's warlocks are 3550. The speed difference between those characters and someone under 70 is so dramatic that it would mean I would have to stand around for a minute, then I could start moving and I would almost immediately catch up to that player. Hell, there are many level 70's that I end up running with who have very good gear (sometimes including legendary rings!) and yet their movement bonus is only 700 or 800. I can't stand running slowly and it has nothing to do with saving time; it just plain feels like I'm wading through molasses and it drives me crazy. The rest of my characters have movement bonuses down around 1000 and I hate it. All but one of my characters is level 22 Leadership or higher now (and the one who isn't is 21), and one of the first things I intend to do with all those refinement points is to increase their movement speed. Forget the artifacts and the enchantments, these HAMSTERS need to get the lead out!
I think what this highlights though, is that level 70s really don't belong in the leveling dungeons with pre-70s. The idea that they're somehow going to behave any differently once mod 14 hits is silly. I hope the devs consider excluding them from those dungeons just like they already do for the leveling skirmishes.
On this, we can most certainly agree. I wish the game would only put my level 70 characters into random dungeons with other level 70 characters. I hate that the fact I can mow stuff down by running past it (OP with Aura of Radiance or SW with BoVA and a soul puppet) is ruining the fun for lower level characters. I also don't like that I can get to the end of the dungeon a full minute or more ahead of some of these players and end up having to wait for them. (This is a minor annoyance; my main concern is that I'd rather them have more fun in the dungeon without me in it.)
> @ithnew said > > How's this for a nice cherry on the top: after they sprint to the end boss, they start sending you threats to get out of the instance because you're taking too long to get to the encounter and they're too impatient to wait for you to find/fight your way to the end room - yeah, I actually got a threat from one jerk who said he would report me for being afk in a dungeon when I was trying desperately to fight/survive/find my way to the last room in an unfamiliar dungeon.
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons unlike if you are in lets say, Omu, they will follow you for a certain amount and lose aggro. As someone who runs ahead in dungeons in RQ I see it all the time, the player behind just runs all the way to the end. Your story seems a bit exaggerated.
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons unlike if you are in lets say, Omu, they will follow you for a certain amount and lose aggro. As someone who runs ahead in dungeons in RQ I see it all the time, the player behind just runs all the way to the end. Your story seems a bit exaggerated.
Interesting. Because when I was being left behind, the mobs tend to give up the chase after some way and just stand there. This is particularly noticeable in Caverns of Karrundax at the staircase. The group of mobs ends up standing along the staircase and anyone who has fallen behind ends up attacked by a fire giant, many fire archons, and several magma spiker guys (and possibly a couple of other types I have forgotten). There are other places they'll end up standing around waiting to ambush any latecomers. I've also seen it happen in other dungeons where the mobs will give up the chase and wander back to their starting positions. So, no, if you can run fast enough, you can actually outrun many of the mobs in the dungeons and they will give up the chase.
...the best thing overall is to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible...
Translation: Sprint to the end and AFK for several minutes while the character 10,000 item levels lower tramps along alone. Nice.
Two things: - Standing there in the circle doesn't make things go faster. In some cases, and with certain players, it just ensures the run will take longer. If I'm in a dungeon with some tryhard running amuck up ahead, I generally take my time even if I'm in there with my SW or GWF - especially if there's a slower player around. I'm not interested in racing if it means someone's going to get left behind, so I don't even bother trying to keep up. I stick with the slower character. We open all the chests, visit all the skill checks, and ignore the one up ahead. He/she's just going to go AFK anyway, so who cares. If we're trailing a scummer, after I finish blocking her/him, I'll initiate a kick if the option comes up. - Tryhards who sprint/sslip ahead to slaughter everything because they think they're the only ones capable of killing anything are just kidding themselves. It's not like the other two CAN'T kill the same stuff. They're simply not given the chance. It's obnoxious, and frankly, a +10K running maniacally around the Cloak Tower OHKing everything looks pretty silly.
Yeah, I occasionally meet new players who like to wander, or who take a dozen swings to kill a goon, but they're incredibly rare. By the end of an entire month, I can count on one hand the number of instances like that, and I'd still have fingers left over.
So no, I don't think sticking with lower characters and letting them get some kills slows things down all that much. Most of the time they kill grunts pretty quick - tankier enemies too if you hit them first. If your teammate's attack is passing through an enemy a split second after you kill it, chances are pretty good you're not doing them any favors, and you're simply being obnoxious.
But whatever - it's kind of pointless to suggest that people might want to be more considerate of other human beings in an MMO. I think what this highlights though, is that level 70s really don't belong in the leveling dungeons with pre-70s. The idea that they're somehow going to behave any differently once mod 14 hits is silly. I hope the devs consider excluding them from those dungeons just like they already do for the leveling skirmishes.
You sir, are an insightful gentleman and a thoughtful hero. I wish to be your friend and president of your fan club.
> How's this for a nice cherry on the top: after they sprint to the end boss, they start sending you threats to get out of the instance because you're taking too long to get to the encounter and they're too impatient to wait for you to find/fight your way to the end room - yeah, I actually got a threat from one jerk who said he would report me for being afk in a dungeon when I was trying desperately to fight/survive/find my way to the last room in an unfamiliar dungeon.
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons unlike if you are in lets say, Omu, they will follow you for a certain amount and lose aggro. As someone who runs ahead in dungeons in RQ I see it all the time, the player behind just runs all the way to the end. Your story seems a bit exaggerated.
You sir... may I suggest your reading and response of my post, is in fact exaggerated and distorted by your experience and perception? (seems to be confirmed by above poster) I have to wonder, when was the last time you were at the back of a scum train? I've gotten mobbed by critters left behind by speed scummers more than a few times.
No exaggeration at all. The guy threatened to report me for being afk because I wasn't fast enough in a new dungeon with a new character.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,220Arc User
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons unlike if you are in lets say, Omu, they will follow you for a certain amount and lose aggro. As someone who runs ahead in dungeons in RQ I see it all the time, the player behind just runs all the way to the end. Your story seems a bit exaggerated.
Interesting. Because when I was being left behind, the mobs tend to give up the chase after some way and just stand there. This is particularly noticeable in Caverns of Karrundax at the staircase. The group of mobs ends up standing along the staircase and anyone who has fallen behind ends up attacked by a fire giant, many fire archons, and several magma spiker guys (and possibly a couple of other types I have forgotten). There are other places they'll end up standing around waiting to ambush any latecomers. I've also seen it happen in other dungeons where the mobs will give up the chase and wander back to their starting positions. So, no, if you can run fast enough, you can actually outrun many of the mobs in the dungeons and they will give up the chase.
I agree. If your toon (the front running toon) is fast enough, you won't draw all the aggro either. I used to do that solo. My TR (both fast and lower threat) could run all the way to the door without anything came. However, if you run an OP who is slow and higher threat and also don't know the short cut, you tend to invite a lot to follow and that is fine for the OP.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons unlike if you are in lets say, Omu, they will follow you for a certain amount and lose aggro. As someone who runs ahead in dungeons in RQ I see it all the time, the player behind just runs all the way to the end. Your story seems a bit exaggerated.
Interesting. Because when I was being left behind, the mobs tend to give up the chase after some way and just stand there. This is particularly noticeable in Caverns of Karrundax at the staircase. The group of mobs ends up standing along the staircase and anyone who has fallen behind ends up attacked by a fire giant, many fire archons, and several magma spiker guys (and possibly a couple of other types I have forgotten). There are other places they'll end up standing around waiting to ambush any latecomers. I've also seen it happen in other dungeons where the mobs will give up the chase and wander back to their starting positions. So, no, if you can run fast enough, you can actually outrun many of the mobs in the dungeons and they will give up the chase.
I agree. If your toon (the front running toon) is fast enough, you won't draw all the aggro either. I used to do that solo. My TR (both fast and lower threat) could run all the way to the door without anything came. However, if you run an OP who is slow and higher threat and also don't know the short cut, you tend to invite a lot to follow and that is fine for the OP.
Yeah. I generally don't mind when my OP draws things along with him. I run with Aura of Radiance on. Anything I don't feel like actively squashing is left to the aura to clean up along the way. This is particularly useful in Cloak Tower, Cragmire, and other low level dungeons. However, my OP isn't particularly slow. His movement bonus is up over 3100 now and soon will be higher than that.
However, when I'm on my CW (in particular), fast running characters who leave most of the mobs alive are basically condemning me to a very long slog through the dungeon to get to the end. I can do it, but it won't be pretty and it certainly won't be anywhere near "fast". LOL
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,220Arc User
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons unlike if you are in lets say, Omu, they will follow you for a certain amount and lose aggro. As someone who runs ahead in dungeons in RQ I see it all the time, the player behind just runs all the way to the end. Your story seems a bit exaggerated.
Interesting. Because when I was being left behind, the mobs tend to give up the chase after some way and just stand there. This is particularly noticeable in Caverns of Karrundax at the staircase. The group of mobs ends up standing along the staircase and anyone who has fallen behind ends up attacked by a fire giant, many fire archons, and several magma spiker guys (and possibly a couple of other types I have forgotten). There are other places they'll end up standing around waiting to ambush any latecomers. I've also seen it happen in other dungeons where the mobs will give up the chase and wander back to their starting positions. So, no, if you can run fast enough, you can actually outrun many of the mobs in the dungeons and they will give up the chase.
I agree. If your toon (the front running toon) is fast enough, you won't draw all the aggro either. I used to do that solo. My TR (both fast and lower threat) could run all the way to the door without anything came. However, if you run an OP who is slow and higher threat and also don't know the short cut, you tend to invite a lot to follow and that is fine for the OP.
Yeah. I generally don't mind when my OP draws things along with him. I run with Aura of Radiance on. Anything I don't feel like actively squashing is left to the aura to clean up along the way. This is particularly useful in Cloak Tower, Cragmire, and other low level dungeons. However, my OP isn't particularly slow. His movement bonus is up over 3100 now and soon will be higher than that.
However, when I'm on my CW (in particular), fast running characters who leave most of the mobs alive are basically condemning me to a very long slog through the dungeon to get to the end. I can do it, but it won't be pretty and it certainly won't be anywhere near "fast". LOL
My comment was more about the effect of the front runner. i.e. the front running slow OP can attract the mob while the front running fast TR may not.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons...
No, they won't. They only go so far and stop leading to a roadblock that the people behind may not be strong enough to hack their way through.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
It doesn't matter how long it takes for the first person to get to the purple circle, it only matter how long it takes for the slowest person to get there. If you're doing anything that makes it take longer for that slowest person (leaving mobs in their way, not sharing ITF, etc.), you're just slowing yourself down. It's like instant, self-inflicted karma.
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How's this for a nice cherry on the top: after they sprint to the end boss, they start sending you threats to get out of the instance because you're taking too long to get to the encounter and they're too impatient to wait for you to find/fight your way to the end room - yeah, I actually got a threat from one jerk who said he would report me for being afk in a dungeon when I was trying desperately to fight/survive/find my way to the last room in an unfamiliar dungeon.
Needless to say, my initial experiences with random dungeons was nearly enough to make me lose interest in playing again. Skirmishes aren't quite as bad since everyone more or less has to work together in a smaller area (a couple of skirmishes still end up being races between anonymous randoms that are interested in only getting to the end as fast as possible).
Making this a 'feature' that forces players to put up with this on a regular basis to have access to AD has got to be one of the worst ideas I've ever seen in an online game.
They. Don't. Belong. There.
70s have their own versions of those dungeons.
If they can't run them, that's their problem -
though to be fair, the only content that new-intermediate 70s can really run are things like: Karrundax, Master of the Hunt, Dread Legion, Regular Mad Wizard's Lair, and ToDG. They can run PoM too, but they've got little hope of earning Gold in there. Those are the areas that should be open to characters with an IL of 7000-9000.
I think a good rule of thumb is - if you can speed run an entire dungeon/skirmish solo, you don't belong there.
If you can't solo portions of a dungeon/skirmish, you don't belong there.
If you can solo at least a portion of a dungeon/skirmish, you're right where you belong.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be critical since you're obviously making an effort to accommodate the lower characters you get queued with. That's one way to handle that huge disparity in levels.
The only other considerate methods I've seen are:
- the 70 lags behind the other two and lets them fight while the 70 helps "thin the herd," a bit.
- the 70 alternates between mob squashing and observer. Everyone gets a turn.
- the 70 fights alongside the rest of the party - weakening enemies to the point where the other two can dispatch them, though that's impossible for really highK players who OHK everything just by looking at them.
And all three of those methods are a real drag for 70s.
I think two of the most irritating players to be stuck with are on either extreme:
- the slow, low level character who keeps stepping on leg traps and is too miserly or poorly prepared to use an injury kit, and has a penchant for exploration, and
- the highK narcissist dressed in shiny pants, underwear, or a courtesan's loincloth who has a throne quickslotted
Don't take this wrong, but there's no way that I'm going to attempt your other suggestions. I would be bored to tears and the lower level player would probably get frustrated that I'm not helping out (or not helping out much). With the way things currently are, the best thing everyone can do when they're so poorly matched is to just end everyone's misery and finish the dungeon as quickly as possible.
Can we get something done to those who kill Thoon Hulks? Maybe a 90% damage debuff and 50% movement reduction for 5 minutes? The Thoon Hulks green blood sticks to your armor and weapons, making it impossible to fight effectively! With a dubuff icon of a dunce hat? And your companion repeatedly says, "I am with stupid?"
I ignore people who are poor/AFK players. Can you respect my ignore list when you create my group in RQ? I keep getting paired with people I ignored.
If you want to explore a dungeon, Q it up solo. You can do that.
I had a cry baby who did not know how to send a tell. If they had asked me to "slow down" or "let me explore a bit", then I would have no problem allowing it. Instead, after the first few fights, they did not move. When we were at the end of the dungeon, they did not move until someone went to them. Then they used the "say" command to cry about how we went thru the dungeon. They finally moved up to the end boss and used say again "F*** Off".
It is important to know how to use /party and /tell commands. If you do not know know how to use the pixie dust trail to follow quests, then learn that important skill. It allows you to go through dungeons more efficiently.
Let people know what you prefer for the dungeon. Worst case, they speed through it. With all the stuff going on in the world, this is No Big Deal.
Two things:
- Standing there in the circle doesn't make things go faster. In some cases, and with certain players, it just ensures the run will take longer. If I'm in a dungeon with some tryhard running amuck up ahead, I generally take my time even if I'm in there with my SW or GWF - especially if there's a slower player around. I'm not interested in racing if it means someone's going to get left behind, so I don't even bother trying to keep up. I stick with the slower character. We open all the chests, visit all the skill checks, and ignore the one up ahead. He/she's just going to go AFK anyway, so who cares. If we're trailing a scummer, after I finish blocking her/him, I'll initiate a kick if the option comes up.
- Tryhards who sprint/sslip ahead to slaughter everything because they think they're the only ones capable of killing anything are just kidding themselves. It's not like the other two CAN'T kill the same stuff. They're simply not given the chance. It's obnoxious, and frankly, a +10K running maniacally around the Cloak Tower OHKing everything looks pretty silly.
Yeah, I occasionally meet new players who like to wander, or who take a dozen swings to kill a goon, but they're incredibly rare. By the end of an entire month, I can count on one hand the number of instances like that, and I'd still have fingers left over.
So no, I don't think sticking with lower characters and letting them get some kills slows things down all that much. Most of the time they kill grunts pretty quick - tankier enemies too if you hit them first. If your teammate's attack is passing through an enemy a split second after you kill it, chances are pretty good you're not doing them any favors, and you're simply being obnoxious.
But whatever - it's kind of pointless to suggest that people might want to be more considerate of other human beings in an MMO. I think what this highlights though, is that level 70s really don't belong in the leveling dungeons with pre-70s. The idea that they're somehow going to behave any differently once mod 14 hits is silly. I hope the devs consider excluding them from those dungeons just like they already do for the leveling skirmishes.
Sadly, I am seeing some of this in VT also. The group runs ahead, gets to the end while leaving some trash mobs behind, and the poor newbie that queued up for VT is still trying to figure out how to get past the two cubes.
I think it's good to remember that millions of lower level players run this content every day without some HighK helicopter nanny to guide them through.
This knife cuts both ways. Maybe you should think a little more about others and not just about yourself. LOL =p
I do it with great consideration.
Besides, like I said. No one's getting out of there ahead of the slowest team mate, and I always enter the circle with the team - the TEAM - not some irrelevant prima donna AFK up ahead.
1. Will the seals of protector be replaced by seals of brave in dungeon drop at time of patch? I would like if they drop seals of brave. The seals protector now could be used only to convert to seals of brave anyway.
The current situation is the MAJOR NERF if we consider AD salvage income, guild mark income from equipment dontations, and shard buying. It is cut 3 times because seals need to be converted to seal of brave at cost of 3x, and only then used. 3 times more dungeons are required to achieve the same result under new system. It is much harder to earn RAD in new system, and this makes it harder again.
2. I also request some item (for example just 1 copper or seal of adventurer at other seal vendor), that could be bought for seals for elements and seals for protector at rate 1x. I have remaining 1-2 seals of elements on some characters, and they cannot be removed. The same should be done for seals of protector to seals for brave conversion. Or just make obsolete seals discardable.
3. Allow mass conversion of seals of protector to seal of brave with slider. I have 1200 seals, I need to click 1200 times to spend them all (double click on seal, mouse move, click, mouse move back). And unless you fix 1 item, it has to be done after every dungeon.
4. While we are on mass operations, PLEASE, PLEASE make bags mass openable (add open all action). I have about 2k of leadership bags on all characters at 2*rp-stones items event. My hand REALLY HURT after I open all of them. And it does not make sense to open them outside of that event. Bots do not have this problem, but human do. So not having this action is anti-human rather than anti-bot measure in the game.
>
> How's this for a nice cherry on the top: after they sprint to the end boss, they start sending you threats to get out of the instance because you're taking too long to get to the encounter and they're too impatient to wait for you to find/fight your way to the end room - yeah, I actually got a threat from one jerk who said he would report me for being afk in a dungeon when I was trying desperately to fight/survive/find my way to the last room in an unfamiliar dungeon.
If players are running ahead the enemies will follow them until the end of dungeons unlike if you are in lets say, Omu, they will follow you for a certain amount and lose aggro. As someone who runs ahead in dungeons in RQ I see it all the time, the player behind just runs all the way to the end. Your story seems a bit exaggerated.
You sir... may I suggest your reading and response of my post, is in fact exaggerated and distorted by your experience and perception? (seems to be confirmed by above poster) I have to wonder, when was the last time you were at the back of a scum train? I've gotten mobbed by critters left behind by speed scummers more than a few times.
No exaggeration at all. The guy threatened to report me for being afk because I wasn't fast enough in a new dungeon with a new character.
I used to do that solo. My TR (both fast and lower threat) could run all the way to the door without anything came.
However, if you run an OP who is slow and higher threat and also don't know the short cut, you tend to invite a lot to follow and that is fine for the OP.
However, when I'm on my CW (in particular), fast running characters who leave most of the mobs alive are basically condemning me to a very long slog through the dungeon to get to the end. I can do it, but it won't be pretty and it certainly won't be anywhere near "fast". LOL