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OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD: Changes to Random Queues
asterdahl
Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258Cryptic Developer › Cryptic Developer
Greetings adventurers, this thread is for providing bug reports and feedback on the following topic:
These changes do not affect requirements such as item level, and players must still meet the item level requirement for the highest item level queue in a random queue before they are able to join it. However, players may now queue for a random queue without unlocking the content. When in a random queue in this situation, you will still be placed into that content that you have not unlocked. However, you may not manually queue for that content, even if you have completed it in a random queue, without first completing whatever existing prerequisites are in place for that queue.
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Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use CYAN. If you are replying to another user's post, or just engaging in general discussion, please do not color your posts, general discussion is welcome and we will read all of it, regardless of color! You can use BBCode to color your text:
Examples:
Bug: When I completed the advanced random queue for the first time today I only received 2,000 AD.
Feedback: Please don't include Demogorgon in the intermediate queue!
- Changes to Random Queues
Categories Reworked
One of the largest changes will be in the categories themselves. Previously a random queue category existed for each type of content: skirmish, dungeon, epic dungeon, epic trial, and also for the current highest item level content (hero's accord.) Based on feedback we have reorganized the random queues by item level bands and reduced the number of queues from 5 to 4.- Random: Leveling Queue — All pre level 70 content as well as Illusionist's Gambit (Master) and Dread Legion.
- Random: Intermediate Queue — All level 70 content up to item level 9000, including Merchant Prince's Folly (now item level 9000), but excluding Demogorgon (Master.)
- Random: Advanced Queue — All level 70 content between item level 9000 and 13000, as well as Demogorgon (Master.)
- Random: Expert Queue — All level 70 content item level 13000 and above, Castle Ravenloft only.
- Random: Leveling Queue — 8,000 AD 60 Seals of the Brave (Repeat: 1,000 AD / 20 Seals)
- Random: Intermediate Queue — 12,000 AD 100 Seals of the Brave (Repeat: 2,000 AD / 30 Seals | Role Bonus: 2,400 AD)
- Random: Advanced Queue — 15,000 AD 120 Seals of the Brave (Repeat: 3,000 AD / 40 Seals | Role Bonus: 3,000 AD)
- Random: Expert Queue — 2,500 RP 20 Seals of the Crown (Repeat: 1,000 RP / 10 Seals | Role Bonus: 5,000 AD)
Daily Bonus is Now Per Account
To coincide with adjustments to astral diamonds that will see the astral diamond refinement cap increased and made account wide, daily random queue bonuses will now also be account wide. For example, you will only be able to earn the daily bonus for completing the Advanced Queue on one character, per account, per day. Because these daily bonuses have been changed to account bonuses, as you may have noted above, the rewards have been significantly increased. Role bonuses; which also received a significant increase, along with repeat bonuses, will both continue to be available as many times as you run queues on any character.Adjustments to Stronghold Quests
Because the random queue categories have been adjusted, the stronghold quests to earn Dungeoneer's Shards of Power have been adjusted to fit the new system. The quests have been simplified overall and there are now two quests (doen from three): Doing Your Part, and Doing Your Part Expertly. The first quest requires completing any random queue, while the second quest requires completing either the advanced or expert queue. To clarify, completing either the advanced or expert queue will earn you completion for both quests. In addition, as the number of quests has been reduced from three to two, the quests both now grant 15 shards (up from 10) which means 30 shards will continue to be available each day from random queues.Adjustments to Queue Requirements
Starting in the upcoming module it will no longer be necessary to gain access to a queue by completing necessary prerequisite quests or campaign unlocks in order to queue for a random queue containing that individual queue. The one exception to this rule is the expert queue. The expert queue which features only the most recent content will still requires unlock the queues within it in order to access it.These changes do not affect requirements such as item level, and players must still meet the item level requirement for the highest item level queue in a random queue before they are able to join it. However, players may now queue for a random queue without unlocking the content. When in a random queue in this situation, you will still be placed into that content that you have not unlocked. However, you may not manually queue for that content, even if you have completed it in a random queue, without first completing whatever existing prerequisites are in place for that queue.
Providing Feedback
Random queues is a feature that we believe has had a significant positive impact on the game, but we know that the initial release was not perfect, and we appreciate all of your feedback over the last few months. As always, thank you all for playing and taking the time to provide feedback! Your feedback is invaluable. See you on the preview shard!----
Formatting Your Feedback and Bugs
For posting feedback and bugs, please follow the following format to ensure your feedback and bugs are seen clearly and processed in a timely manner, thank you!Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use CYAN. If you are replying to another user's post, or just engaging in general discussion, please do not color your posts, general discussion is welcome and we will read all of it, regardless of color! You can use BBCode to color your text:
<font color=cyan>This text will display in cyan.</font>
<font color=red>This text will display in red.</font>Examples:
Bug: When I completed the advanced random queue for the first time today I only received 2,000 AD.
Feedback: Please don't include Demogorgon in the intermediate queue!
Post edited by asterdahl on
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Comments
People that queue for it specifically are there for gold runs, people that get it for random queues are there for bronze.
Putting people who want gold with people who want bronze leads to toxic behavior and frustrating experiences for everyone. Due to the voting system in the skirmish it's best just to leave it out entirely.
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If you're going to put IG in the random system, put it in intermediate not levelling (or put a lower level version in levelling), it's no fun getting 3 5K chars expecting your 15K to carry them to gold.
If you're concerned about the backlog on the AD exchange then remove the player based element of it. Simply allow 500:1 AD:Zen exchanges to happen as default. There is absolutely no benefit to the current system and the is no benefit of reducing the amount of earnable AD in game.
What makes it worse is, random Q is supposed to be a reasonable way for new/levelling players to make AD to get better items. Seems like the logic is backtracking and now is the bane of all players' lives as they have to senselessly grind through outdated content receiving mediocre rewards on RNG loot tables that will have you more likely to win the European lottery. All because the logical approach - that should've been undertaking YEARS ago, to abandon player based AD exchange - was gutted and binned because the greed of this company is unreal. Now the plan is to infuriate the player base further with an inadequate at best "solution"?
Tong is not very completeable with 3 "DPS" outside of a small number of very specific configurations (such as Primary DPS/CW-MoF/SW-Temp/OP-Prot/DC)
Short of major balance changes to the classes, this will lead to TONG having a similar problem in that queue to the one FBI currently does in the Random Epic Dungeon queue.
To this point, I've only ever done 2 queues on 1 or 2 toons, because the others didn't qualify for the Queues.
Thank you for not requiring me to unlock content on all of my toons just to be able to RQ.
Will level 70's still be partied with pre-70's?
Is each que item-level locked if your character is within that range? Meaning, can my 13.4k TR que for anything below Expert? Is a level 70 able to que for pre-70 content, or can only pre-70's que for that?
Will I also be able to take a single character through each tier of queue, or will I need to play one each across 4 characters for the full rewards?
I'm also concerned that with my 13.4k TR that, if the queues are ilv-locked, it would really suck to only be able to que for one "random," if indeed the only 13k dungeon upcoming is Ravenloft. And let's face it; no one wants you for endgame unless you're ~16k right now. Not sure if devs are aware of this. I don't see Expert Randoms being queued up at all very much, and if they are, it's probably going to be with an in-house party and not pugged. (I'm probably lucky I have awesome guildies taking my 12k and 13k characters through ToNG right now. Still haven't even gotten a group for CoDG though!)
I agree with leaving IG Master out of leveling skirmishes. Do you guys really even play your own content? Have you run as a level 50 with mediocre gear, with a group of people level 20-35 who are more than likely poorly geared, who insist on going for gold because you barely carried them through bronze? No new player is prepared for the mess that is leveling IG. It's tedious, time-consuming, and no one likes to listen when you tell them IG Gold before level 70 doesn't pay off. IG is a crapshoot as it is, and anyone who's leveling and queuing for it deliberately before level 70 is there to speed-level to 70.
If you're going to throw IG into leveling skirmish forever and make it the only que that ever pops because the system for some reason can't find 5 people in a narrow range for the quest skirmishes, then just lock it at Bronze-only so people don't have to deal with a difficult and unrewarding, time-consuming chore. It also takes away the frustration of dealing with "Stay" trolls and people who don't understand you don't need Gold to be given the rAD.
Here's what leveling looks like on an alt:
"Ok, time to que for my "random" skirmish for some ad... Oh look, it's IG. I didn't see that coming. Please don't let me be the only decently geared player here, I don't want to spend 15 minutes on this."
Also, if you insist regardless of the above issues, raise the adjusted level to 69. A lv69 player having their stats cut by 1/4 to match a perceived "average" 60 is absurd, while a level 40's stats suddenly outdoes the 69's. I once had my leveling cleric outlast 4 other higher level, higher *item-level* players, due to the absurd algorithm by which the game adjusts stats. And... IG Master? Why? Who thought that would be a good idea?
Personally, I think it would be nice to see the quest skirmishes exist outside of CTAs, and accessible to everyone in a broader range than 3-6 levels. There's a ton of skirmishes, some of which are actually a lot of fun, that many people never get to play because guess what, they never pop, or if they do, someone has to sit in its que for 30 minutes or even a couple hours. The likelihood of someone even in your guild/alliance being in the same narrow level range as you to que with on purpose is also very low. You wanted leveling dungeons popping up for lowbies, and then left skirmishes behind.
/endrant
On another note, are we ever going to see an Omu-related skirmish, similar to MPF, where we can somewhat easily and reliably grind for Lost Idols like we can do right now for Totems?
Also, can you shorten the vote kick timer to 5 minutes?. It's really annoying when you spawn in and someone deicded to simply log off so they dont get the leaver penalty and the rest have to sit and wait 15 minutes before we can even start the run like on ToDG, PoM, IG. Or when we get to the final boss in any dungeon.
So we get seal of the Brave from every queue now? On one hand, I kind of like this since I haven't done enough ToNG/CoDG for even one piece of primal gear. On the other hand, every scrub will be decked out in primal gear in a few weeks after launch. I'm already kind of sick of seeing 11K toons getting out-DPSed by 9K or even 8K toons.
Demog
nSVA
mSVA
CoDG
All of them have been adapted for 5 players? Only few premaid teams are able to run CoDG with only 5 players
You have a big difference between Demogorgon (master) and CoDG.
Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
If you do, you have make it much harder, as it is way too easy compared to the other challenges. That of course would require to adjust the loot table, as Master Demogorgon had the purpose to provide currency for the twisted artifact weapons when it was released. Those weapons are outdated legacy items.
Players will be very happy about Master Demo popping up of course, for quick AD rewards. But that also means there ALWAYS will be players queuing the advanced queue in hope of Demogorgon to happen, and leave on ALL other instances, forcing the other players to wait for reinforcements.
Hence, the 2,500RP ≅ 3750 AD (which can go up to about 5,000 AD). This is an unworthy amount for an expert dungeon.
To even just match the Advanced Queue value of 15,000AD, you would need to provide 10,000 RP for completion of an Expert dungeon (repeat: 4,000 RP for a proportional increase).
5 are currently eligible for RED three are not.
I run five or six RLD, 5 RED and eight Random skirmishes, before jumping into chosen content for salvage.
With the changes, I will simply need to run the first 3 RQs on ONE toon, along with that toons weeklies.
With VIP and Invoke RAD bonus stacks, I will need a couple of chosen dungeons worth of salvage/seals tops to hit the daily limit of 100k.
3 instead of 18-20...
So, thanks a lot for officially making Random Queues the fetid pile of donkey stools I've been calling it since day one.
No more pretense that it is there to make queues pop faster...
These changes are too little, too late, and would have worked if you'd made them back when you were inundated with the advice to do so.
Bringing these changes in alongside the derisory cap on daily RAD is simply a last gasp attempt to keep up the illusion that Random Queues as a primary RAD source was ever a good idea.
I will now have plenty of time to try that Fortnite thing everyone keeps going on about.
Intermediate queue will disproportionately place people in Throne, POM or Folly due to there being no role requirements there. The heavy skew of DPS classes in the player base will make the skirmishes the most common result except for premades, support characters and people in groups with support characters, the last two going to ETOS/ELOL/Shores a lot. On the plus side, wait time for DPS characters will no longer be an issue.
Seals of the Brave will be the lower tier of seals now? Will the weekly cap be removed? If it is not removed will it be fixed to actually work?
And since it is strongly connected to queues, have you guys considered a reworked release of the vote kick system for M14?
I have 10 chars. 7 of them can run random level dungeon ans skirmish.
I get 140 shards and ~112.000 AD.
After these changes, i get only 105 shards for the guild and 15.000 AD for me (not all my chars can run Intermediate Queue).
The needed grinding time is reduced to 50%.
The shard gain is reduced to 75%.
The AD gain is reduced to ~13,5%.
So everyone has to choose between guild progress and char progress?
Would it be possible to make the quests repeatable with lesser rewards or a third quest for level dungeons?
The reality is that in the current system most groups skip FBI, and MSP when it pops in the random epic queue because a large subset of players still cannot manage to finish these dungeons in anything resembling a timely manner... I would suggest that you strongly consider having FBI, MSP, and Tong included in the Expert Queue, Etos through Demogorgon master in the advanced queue, etc. Most groups are not playing random queues to have fun with a surprise! dungeon, but rather to get in, make their AD, and then get out so they can do something they actually want to do. Also, lets be honest, there is a huge difficulty and experience difference between Master Demo and Fang Breaker Island; whereas there is a much shorter difficulty distance between FBI and Tomb of the Nine Gods... It's a more logical grouping, which also means that groups have a better expectation of what they need to bring for success.
Also, I admit that I didn't like the AD changes and account based refinement changes (this does impact me directly), but after reflecting on this overnight, I do believe overall it is a step in the right direction to help fix the economy.
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"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
I know of no one who can party with a team of 11k IL players and successfully complete any of those mentioned. CN maybe but the teams that play it usually have a very strong Tank, and great DPS toons
unless of course you are reducing the difficulty of these by a factor of 25-50% then maybe they would fit the advanced catagory.
if you're putting IG into the lowest catagory then make it bronze only !!!! far too many problems with ppl wanting to do IGgold and others wanting rAD Options for silver and gold should be excluded from random queue options.
Give something unique to MDemo rewards other than twisted ichor, that is worth completing it for
The adjustments you described are in my opinion a good development into the right direction even if there are a few things that might work out in a different way than you intended.
Please don't mix Dungeons, Skirmishes and Trials.
As some other players mentioned, mixing dungeons, skirmishes and trials may have some unwanted side effects. Chances are very high that only skirmishes will plop because there are no specific roles needed for that content.
Additionally, if I do queue for a dungeon (or skirmish), I do not want to play a trial, because it is a significantly different game experience.
Please don't put Tomb of the Nine Gods into the Advanced Queue
One problem with the current random queues system is the variety of dungeon difficulty is too great. You tackle this with the new level brands.
While considering my suggestions above, leaving out skirmishes/trials, you approach is fitting. Putting Fangbreaker Island / Masters Spellplague in their own category is a really good thing. But still I think it is too early to put Tomb of the Nine Gods on par with this two dungeons. For the average advanced player with fitting item level the difficult spike in Tomb of the Nine Gods might be too high.
Overall, this is my suggestion for the reworked categories
- Random Leveling Queue: all pre level 70 dungeons
- Random Skirmish: all skirmishes (except Shores of Tuern and Kessel's Retreat because they are dungeons after all)
- Random Trial: Demogorgon (Normal and Master), Assault on Svardborg (Normal and Master), Tiamat
- Intermediate Queue: all level 70 dungeons except the ones mentioned below
- Advanced Queue: Fangbreaker Island, Spellplague Caverns
- Expert Queue: Tomb of the Nine Gods, Castle Ravenloft, Craddle of the Death God
I must admit, that from a reward point of view that might be a lot of different queues – rewards must be adjusted for sure. But form a playing experience perspective separating the content by its difficulty is a good thing.