Dont you think that you completely destroyed what people worked hard for? Everyone will prefer constant stats from augments instead of bonding companions. With bonding buff up time of just 50% you destroyed more than only bondings.
Exactly. This. However, they couldn't care less because all of the negative reactions from us won't make a difference on whether it goes through or not.
Cryptic Mentality: Let's anger the 93% of the players who are happy with the Bondings to appease the 7% who aren't. Also lets try to get them all to spend as much money as possible while we're doing it.
13
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
If your mobs are getting killed too fast, there's a simple solution: Boost the mobs.
If your Bonding stones are outperforming your Eldritch runestones, and you don't like that, for some reason (despite it opening far more pets than having everyone rely on Augments does), then boost the Eldritch stones. No need to nerf the Bonding Stones.
Bondings far outperform everything else (I have them, I know first-hand). The design choices are to adjust bondings or to adjust everything else in the game.
Power is relative. Increasing mob defense and eldritch performance is the same thing as decreasing bonding performance.
Bringing bonding into the same general realm as other options increases player choice and can only benefit the game.
it's like a young DM playing D&D for the first time, who magics away the Paladin's +5 Holy Avenger out of jealously, because he thinks its his job to "beat" the player, rather than make sure everyone has a good time.
A good DM doesn't hand out a +5 Holy Avenger in the first place if the rest of the party has +1 Daggers, yet that's what happened when bondings went from being a trade-off to being the best choice under all circumstances. In a pen & paper game, it's easy enough for a DM to recover by letting the other party members find nice weapons of their own and toughening up the opposition. In a MMO, it's far more work and risk to rebalance everything around that one +5 Holy Avenger.
If you go through with this, there is only one companion that is Best-in-Slot and it's the Bulette Pup because all other augments have at least one offensive slot. To get the maximum stats, a player needs the 100% from an augment plus the combined 76.5% from three Eldritch Runestones... which is more than the average stat boost of 97.5% from the bonding runestones because of the halved duration. Please, consider this through. Do we really have to go back to a system where only one choice is the best one?
From a perspective average player this really is stupid. Why is it wrong to have something that is OP? It's like everyone needs to get a participation award! I'm not from that generation but it seems ARC is. I spent REAL money to get bondings and that was fine supporting ARC. I don't run thru dungeons like its nothing, there isn't always that high level group. It takes so much time and effort to build a character however you can hit a button and change it like " poof it's gone now deal with it." This is not good customer service to your players or are you hoping the pocket warriors will save you? This will not make me spend more money in the game. If anything it will do the opposite, if I even play anymore. I hope you listen to the comments and rethink what your doing.
So after busting my HAMSTER for 4 months to get my bondings up to 10, now I'm expected to grind 4 more ranks to receive half the bonus? Are you devs gonna take a 50% pay cut, because that's what this feels like to me. How bout you guys bust your <font color="orange">HAMSTERS</FONT> and actually fix some bugs, and oh yeah, do it for 50% pay. Lame
<font color="orange">Hamster filter manually applied by moderator.</font>
Power is relative. Increasing mob defense and eldritch performance is the same thing as decreasing bonding performance.
No, it's not - the key difference being that an NPC doesn't care when you buff or nerf it.
Players might gripe a bit about stronger monsters, but they will gripe a whole lot more about a strategy they've spent hundreds of dollars on and have been using for years is eliminated. Among human beings, if not Mobs, there is a world of difference between opening a new opportunity, and taking away something they already have.
...I mean, unless you're going to give everyone with Rank 12 Bonding Stones and Legendary pets, a free Legendary Bullet Cub and three Rank 14 Eldritch runestones...
And there's no need for this - it's not like there's a whole lotta Augment pets on the market that are being ignored (there's, what, 12 of em, vs. the hundreds of other Companions?), or as if people are just cruising through Temple of the Nine Gods like it was nothing.
...and even if that was the case - who does it harm? This angers everyone, and helps no one.
This nerf on bonding is way out of proportion. BiS player would have to grind for a year to get everything to R14 just to get back to 90% of their current stat level with their peak stat happening only 50% of the time. You are also seriously killing all these 10, 11k players who has a life outside of the game. They already have a hard time finding groups to let them in the hardest contents to enjoy everything you have spent endless hour programmed. With the change, they will never find a group that will take them as the high iL players would be fighting for their own dear life in end game content and will not have any room to carry any of the weaker players.
If you think your customer like to pay money to have gaming company to slap them in the face and HAMSTER them over. You couldn't be more wrong. Those are NOT your player base. The above mentioned people only play Ubisoft games and the 2 dozens of them are still playing the Division.
With these changes, Bonding Runestones won't even be good for a stat boost compared to other runestones of the same level and an augment provides overall more stats than three bondings since at least those stats are up 100% of the time. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
0
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Don't forget that you'd be using Eldritch stones with augments... So that's another 25% each...
I think it worth considering the total game player combat power situation.
They are giving us a fair bit of more combat power from the r14's. So even if the bondings are nerfed the total change in player combat power might not be negative but could even be positive.
Of course we will have to work to grow into that combat power, but that is the nature of mmorpg's.
It is unlikely they would have given us the r14's without the bondings nerf, that would make the players way too powerful versus the content.
With this change we'll have to chose between bursty boost from bondings, and somewhat lower but reliable boost from augments, with both more or less at same total value.
Does the change to bondings mean you’re going to rebalance the Tier 3 and Tier 4 dungeons? Because as it stands the level of difficulty of the dungeons are balanced with the stat boost of the bondings. If the bondings stat boost was to be brought down to 195% instead of 285% it would still be functional, but by cutting the bonding’s uptime in half it means the whole difficulty of the new dungeons need to be readjusted down to a Tier 2 level.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
> @caspur33 said: > Wow. what a horrible idea. > > So your taking us to half the duration AND reduced stats AND harder content. I really don't mind the reduced stats but to give us reduced stats and only 50% up-time is just really a slap in the face. We spent a ton of AD on something that noone's going to want to use anymore. Also we have to spend a ton of more AD to get them to 14 and they're going to be worse than they are now? Or switch to something different that completely needs upgraded? It really and truly does look like Cryptic is doing nothing more than trying to get more money. Not to mention that dungeons are going to take longer and drops are still basically in the toilet. So now it's going to take longer to run FBI and all we're going to get is a peridot? > > The hatred for this is radiating from here and Reddit. At least 90% of all posts are about how angry the player base is with this change. I wonder if all of the players actually hating this idea will have any effect on whether it happens or not. I doubt if from the past experience with the Coal wards on Xbox.
This is how I felt after investing in 3 regeneration artifacts mythic just for regeneration tof not work in combat anymore.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
3
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
> @meirami said: > With these changes, Bonding Runestones won't even be good for a stat boost compared to other runestones of the same level and an augment provides overall more stats than three bondings since at least those stats are up 100% of the time. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
I hate to say.. I told you so....
Wait until you see the other changes coming.. I would say but euls prevents it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I put time and a fair amount of real money into to getting r12 bondings. after reading this, I feel completely swindled by the creators of this game. even though these changes won't be effecting me for awhile since I am on console, it makes me not want to play any more. Why save for anything if at any time it can be made completely useless on a whim? Will there be any kind of buy back or refund for people who invested in bondings?
Come on guys, seriously, this bonding nerf is WAY overboard. You've nerfed r12s by 3/4ths and ranking them up to r14 would just put us back up to 1/3rd of where we are now.
Do you want another keygate? Cause this is how you get another keygate.
If you thought bonding was too strong compared to the other runestones, why wouldn't you just buff the other runestones? You know, exactly the way you did with weapon enchantments?
So are you guys gonna also give me back the 1.2 million ad I just spent to get bondings on two of my characters right before this was announced? I literally spent weeks of farming to get the ad for that, and now they're gonna be useless.
Does the change to bondings mean you’re going to rebalance the Tier 3 and Tier 4 dungeons? Because as it stands the level of difficulty of the dungeons are balanced with the stat boost of the bondings. If the bondings stat boost was to be brought down to 195% instead of 285% it would still be functional, but by cutting the bonding’s uptime in half it means the whole difficulty of the new dungeons need to be readjusted down to a Tier 2 level.
Se my comment earlier in the thread. We are getting a nice power boost from the r14's, so in the end the change in player combat power might even be positive.
We'll have to put in a lot of work/money to grow into that power though.
This change will crush the average players ability to run end game dungeons quite drastically. I see another Colgate exodus in the making.
I joined the game shortly before that event... I have played all this time & the only bonding stone I have is the one that dropped during the temporary chest buff. I'm not going anywhere.
Here's food for thought, make us happy by doing what 95% of the player base always says in every situation ( since we know the game much better then you do gameplay wise ) and then you will see profit in your game, making us unhappy will seriously damage our relationship towards the company and we will not sit by and watch this pan out. you will make much more money with happy customers, sure nerf the bondings, but make it reasonable.. this is just murder.. killing the people who stuck to this game through thick and thin, even during mod 6 screw up, but this will be the last straw i kid you not.. and your timing? couldnt be worse, u announce this one day before double rp? really? now everyone is confused, refine? what to refine? buy an augment? ( just one viable one anyways) so you are basically telling us we will use eldritch and bullette pup and that's that.. nah dudes rethink this very carefully.. i think the anger is justified and i honestly hope you don't brush us off like 90% of the time. balance the classes, forget bondings and all the other hokus pokus, first class balance, then the rest follows. i have been promoting this game indirectly through my youtube channel and i will like to continue doing so.. so tread carefully guys. don't make this silly mistake.
and if you disregard the community atleast make the balance more viable, 50% uptime and lower stats? ridiculous.
I'm hoping this doesn't happen. I'm hoping you really think about this and don't ignore your player base for once. I'm trying to not be furious about this...
This is a terrible idea. Too many people have put way way too much time and money into these bonding stones for you to do this now.
Especially players who have rank 12's in multiple characters. The investment is massive... For some it was real money, others hours and weeks on weeks of their time, don't do this. It isn't the answer. There's other ways.
Bring other runestones up to comparable levels but don't kill the bonding stone. People will leave, in huge numbers, it isn't smart... We will be furious.
Will we be compensated for all our lost time and refinement that went into these stones? How will you make all of us feel like we didn't waste all our time and money? How will we feel like investing I anything in this game is going to be worth out in the future?
You keep nerfing everything into the ground and players will stop playing cuz we feel like it's a waste. Like what good is investing all our time into something and then having it destroyed gonna do? It makes me feel like there's no point in investing time in the game at all because what's the point?
Every time I work hard and finally get something it's worthless so why keep working towards anything?
If your mobs are getting killed too fast, there's a simple solution: Boost the mobs.
If your Bonding stones are outperforming your Eldritch runestones, and you don't like that, for some reason (despite it opening far more pets than having everyone rely on Augments does), then boost the Eldritch stones. No need to nerf the Bonding Stones.
Bondings far outperform everything else (I have them, I know first-hand). The design choices are to adjust bondings or to adjust everything else in the game.
Power is relative. Increasing mob defense and eldritch performance is the same thing as decreasing bonding performance.
Bringing bonding into the same general realm as other options increases player choice and can only benefit the game.
it's like a young DM playing D&D for the first time, who magics away the Paladin's +5 Holy Avenger out of jealously, because he thinks its his job to "beat" the player, rather than make sure everyone has a good time.
A good DM doesn't hand out a +5 Holy Avenger in the first place if the rest of the party has +1 Daggers, yet that's what happened when bondings went from being a trade-off to being the best choice under all circumstances. In a pen & paper game, it's easy enough for a DM to recover by letting the other party members find nice weapons of their own and toughening up the opposition. In a MMO, it's far more work and risk to rebalance everything around that one +5 Holy Avenger.
A good DM , will give out a prize after you finish a dungeon and you kill the last boss. A good DM is always fair to his or her players. He/ She / Apache helicopter knows how to make it interesting for the players to continue playing. Without a need for a nerf.
A good DM will also not make a new dungeon , where Bondings are a must have, that is supremely hard and then nerf Bondings. After waiting for 7 mods , It is like cutting off a hand that feeds you.
Bondings indeed out preform everything else. It did not bother anyone before. Please check the price of a Bonding rank 12 on the AC. They are not something cheap, we play with , for the fun of it.
But you know, it is fine, we can all just go back to augments . "The choice " as mentioned before.
They can just make a new set of them with offense slots and we can do all of this circus once again.
For a Cleric power is never relative.
And if it is a general opinion that this will help the players choice, then it seems there is a need to analyze this idea again. Since the players are claiming it will not.
We can only suggest it is not to be done. What they do with this suggestion is above us.
I have no problems with a new refinement system. The new currency " refinement points " sounds nice. I also have no problems with raising enchantment levels for two more. Fine by me. You can raise it to 20 , for all i care.
Do you want to raise difficulty of dungeons or mobs ? Go for it. If it has to be done, it has to be done.
But nerfing something you made essential to the game , by waiting for too long to make a change in the first place, and on such a way, is never a good idea.
I'm a new player. I started in Feb. My power lvl is now at 13.5k. And it took hundreds of hours out of my life to learn this game, not to mention how much actual hard earned money I put into it.
I felt it was an accomplishment to finally have my r12s when I got them. It was something only the serious gamers grinded to get. It was something special. That's why things like this are in videogames in the first place. New players aren't supposed to have everything just handed to them. You have to work for it. You have to attempt to learn. This isn't GTA 5. I feel like this should be handled differently.
Now I'm seeing that I just took 6 months of my life to learn a system and succeed at something I enjoyed, that is just going to be dismantled. I literally just cried a little bit.
So Ive been away from the game for 2 days and all I return to is that i just lost few milions AD because bonding will be made obsolete?! I really dont get the logic here... everytime something si nerfed or buffed its either made obsolete or overpowered, there is no reasonable balance in anything!
If you go through with this, there is only one companion that is Best-in-Slot and it's the Bulette Pup because all other augments have at least one offensive slot. To get the maximum stats, a player needs the 100% from an augment plus the combined 76.5% from three Eldritch Runestones... which is more than the average stat boost of 97.5% from the bonding runestones because of the halved duration. Please, consider this through. Do we really have to go back to a system where only one choice is the best one?
A Rank 12 Eldritch currently only provides a 12% Augmentation Boost if loaded in Defense slot. You also don't get a +840 buff and only a +700 if loaded in Offence but then you loose the Augmentation.
Comments
Cryptic Mentality: Let's anger the 93% of the players who are happy with the Bondings to appease the 7% who aren't.
Power is relative. Increasing mob defense and eldritch performance is the same thing as decreasing bonding performance.
Bringing bonding into the same general realm as other options increases player choice and can only benefit the game. A good DM doesn't hand out a +5 Holy Avenger in the first place if the rest of the party has +1 Daggers, yet that's what happened when bondings went from being a trade-off to being the best choice under all circumstances. In a pen & paper game, it's easy enough for a DM to recover by letting the other party members find nice weapons of their own and toughening up the opposition. In a MMO, it's far more work and risk to rebalance everything around that one +5 Holy Avenger.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
If you go through with this, there is only one companion that is Best-in-Slot and it's the Bulette Pup because all other augments have at least one offensive slot. To get the maximum stats, a player needs the 100% from an augment plus the combined 76.5% from three Eldritch Runestones... which is more than the average stat boost of 97.5% from the bonding runestones because of the halved duration. Please, consider this through. Do we really have to go back to a system where only one choice is the best one?
<font color="orange">Hamster filter manually applied by moderator.</font>
Players might gripe a bit about stronger monsters, but they will gripe a whole lot more about a strategy they've spent hundreds of dollars on and have been using for years is eliminated. Among human beings, if not Mobs, there is a world of difference between opening a new opportunity, and taking away something they already have.
...I mean, unless you're going to give everyone with Rank 12 Bonding Stones and Legendary pets, a free Legendary Bullet Cub and three Rank 14 Eldritch runestones...
And there's no need for this - it's not like there's a whole lotta Augment pets on the market that are being ignored (there's, what, 12 of em, vs. the hundreds of other Companions?), or as if people are just cruising through Temple of the Nine Gods like it was nothing.
...and even if that was the case - who does it harm? This angers everyone, and helps no one.
game - Human/real life - ???
OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
Ain't even funny...
They are giving us a fair bit of more combat power from the r14's. So even if the bondings are nerfed the total change in player combat power might not be negative but could even be positive.
Of course we will have to work to grow into that combat power, but that is the nature of mmorpg's.
It is unlikely they would have given us the r14's without the bondings nerf, that would make the players way too powerful versus the content.
With this change we'll have to chose between bursty boost from bondings, and somewhat lower but reliable boost from augments, with both more or less at same total value.
Im using it till i droped and didnt brought any bonding... i was thinking about changing it.. no more
> Wow. what a horrible idea.
>
> So your taking us to half the duration AND reduced stats AND harder content. I really don't mind the reduced stats but to give us reduced stats and only 50% up-time is just really a slap in the face. We spent a ton of AD on something that noone's going to want to use anymore. Also we have to spend a ton of more AD to get them to 14 and they're going to be worse than they are now? Or switch to something different that completely needs upgraded? It really and truly does look like Cryptic is doing nothing more than trying to get more money. Not to mention that dungeons are going to take longer and drops are still basically in the toilet. So now it's going to take longer to run FBI and all we're going to get is a peridot?
>
> The hatred for this is radiating from here and Reddit. At least 90% of all posts are about how angry the player base is with this change. I wonder if all of the players actually hating this idea will have any effect on whether it happens or not. I doubt if from the past experience with the Coal wards on Xbox.
This is how I felt after investing in 3 regeneration artifacts mythic just for regeneration tof not work in combat anymore.
> With these changes, Bonding Runestones won't even be good for a stat boost compared to other runestones of the same level and an augment provides overall more stats than three bondings since at least those stats are up 100% of the time. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
I hate to say.. I told you so....
Wait until you see the other changes coming.. I would say but euls prevents it.
Do you want another keygate? Cause this is how you get another keygate.
We'll have to put in a lot of work/money to grow into that power though.
balance the classes, forget bondings and all the other hokus pokus, first class balance, then the rest follows. i have been promoting this game indirectly through my youtube channel and i will like to continue doing so.. so tread carefully guys. don't make this silly mistake.
and if you disregard the community atleast make the balance more viable, 50% uptime and lower stats?
ridiculous.
regards
Galactic Underwear.
This is a terrible idea. Too many people have put way way too much time and money into these bonding stones for you to do this now.
Especially players who have rank 12's in multiple characters. The investment is massive... For some it was real money, others hours and weeks on weeks of their time, don't do this. It isn't the answer. There's other ways.
Bring other runestones up to comparable levels but don't kill the bonding stone. People will leave, in huge numbers, it isn't smart... We will be furious.
Will we be compensated for all our lost time and refinement that went into these stones? How will you make all of us feel like we didn't waste all our time and money? How will we feel like investing I anything in this game is going to be worth out in the future?
You keep nerfing everything into the ground and players will stop playing cuz we feel like it's a waste. Like what good is investing all our time into something and then having it destroyed gonna do? It makes me feel like there's no point in investing time in the game at all because what's the point?
Every time I work hard and finally get something it's worthless so why keep working towards anything?
A good DM is always fair to his or her players.
He/ She / Apache helicopter knows how to make it interesting for the players to continue playing. Without a need for a nerf.
A good DM will also not make a new dungeon , where Bondings are a must have, that is supremely hard and then nerf Bondings.
After waiting for 7 mods , It is like cutting off a hand that feeds you.
Bondings indeed out preform everything else.
It did not bother anyone before.
Please check the price of a Bonding rank 12 on the AC.
They are not something cheap, we play with , for the fun of it.
But you know, it is fine, we can all just go back to augments . "The choice " as mentioned before.
They can just make a new set of them with offense slots and we can do all of this circus once again.
For a Cleric power is never relative.
And if it is a general opinion that this will help the players choice, then it seems there is a need to analyze this idea again.
Since the players are claiming it will not.
We can only suggest it is not to be done.
What they do with this suggestion is above us.
I have no problems with a new refinement system. The new currency " refinement points " sounds nice.
I also have no problems with raising enchantment levels for two more. Fine by me. You can raise it to 20 , for all i care.
Do you want to raise difficulty of dungeons or mobs ? Go for it. If it has to be done, it has to be done.
But nerfing something you made essential to the game , by waiting for too long to make a change in the first place, and on such a way, is never a good idea.
You as well should know that.
I felt it was an accomplishment to finally have my r12s when I got them. It was something only the serious gamers grinded to get. It was something special. That's why things like this are in videogames in the first place. New players aren't supposed to have everything just handed to them. You have to work for it. You have to attempt to learn. This isn't GTA 5. I feel like this should be handled differently.
Now I'm seeing that I just took 6 months of my life to learn a system and succeed at something I enjoyed, that is just going to be dismantled. I literally just cried a little bit.
I really dont get the logic here... everytime something si nerfed or buffed its either made obsolete or overpowered, there is no reasonable balance in anything!