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Official Feedback Thread: M12 Private PvP Queues (& a bit about where PvP is headed)

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  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    People gear to get better, there needs to be a source of income to the game, the game doesn't run on esthetic visuals, probably in the future we will some kind of diminishing influence of stats, which is not a bad thing in pve if content gets adapted and surely not in pvp since devs can control the range of builds better. But one thing i do agree is removing guild boons, overloads it's fine, most guilds can purchase from alliance guilds, when it comes to boons there are people with for example defense, incoming healing and life steal boons, none of those can compare to HP.

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,932 Arc User
    Well, if private matches count toward the Stronghold pvp daily then it's a good way of earning extra shards for barracks by getting pve guildies to participate in 'non-hostile' matches against people they know - some may even decide they like it and start queuing for public matches - which is good for the pvp community.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    I skipped a few pages, but I like that you are looking at PvP a bit, it's something that should be fun and currently is not. The main reason I think it is not as fun as it could be, is because of the great disparity of character strength.

    Example, my close to BiS PvE toon goes in and wrecks the lower level toons, sorta fun for me but i'm sure it is not for them and it gets boring quickly...then I too get wrecked by the more serious PvP players, the premade groups and the juicers, probably fun for them but not for me.

    The current PvP match has almost nothing at all to do with 'skill', it is about tweaking your toon to near exploit levels with stacking of things that were probably never meant to be stacked to see if you can go wreck the ones that did not stack or max out their toons yet....

    I would much rather see a bare knuckles style PvP and would love to see the potions consumption limited or removed completely from the game, they trivialize the content in their current state...what are we down to 9 minute FBI's now...

    I am unclear how the private Q helps at all, unless it let's me have a close and fun match while others are distracted elsewhere, I don't think people need yet another testing ground for PvP powers... Honestly you should scrap the 5v5 public Q and leave solo Q only and give Private Q rewards only one per day.


    Where/ what exactly is this lag free/ pet free testing ground for pvp you speak of sir ?? that we dont need another *sigh*

    perhaps you should not skip and skim posts(by your own admission ) and read why the devs actually implemented it (private Qs) there are a lots of changes coming to mod 12b pvp and they need proper feedback

    a 10 v 10 preset match in guantlegyrm is fun(also not to get stomped ) and has nothing to do with "TESTING POWERS"

    -10000000000 to your suggestion to scrap the public Q

    Quote from you

    "I am unclear how the private Q helps at all, unless it let's me have a close and fun match while others..."

    Bingo !!!!! a close fun match ... ? now why would anyone want that *major sarcasm*

    so in summary you want to scrap the public Q and dont see a need for private Q

    I got news for you latest dev stream hinted about more pvp maps that are ready in the wings where does that fall into your theories >?
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    edited August 2017


    * The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).

    Are there any defense net positive mobs with full ArP (85%) ? (in PvE)
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:


    * The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).

    Are there any defense net positive mobs with full ArP (85%) ? (in PvE)
    Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?

    I can't think of anything else... unless we're talking dino topple shields but I don't think that's what he means (or intends).
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    dupeks said:

    micky1p00 said:


    * The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).

    Are there any defense net positive mobs with full ArP (85%) ? (in PvE)
    Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?

    I can't think of anything else... unless we're talking dino topple shields but I don't think that's what he means (or intends).
    Not seeing it, only one reduction (right now on preview):




    And the same but with WR 21% debuff:


  • rgutscheradevrgutscheradev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 133 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2017
    dupeks said:

    Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?

    LoL, I should have known this thread would want the gory details!

    OK, here follows TMI for my fellow math nerds:
    * Before the piercing changes, SD tracked all the damage you did (after resistances) and then did 50% of that (ignoring resistances).
    * With the big piercing fix, SD did 50% of damage *including* resistances (but had a big bundle of ArPen attached to it to make it piercing). That meant it was now double-dipping.
    * In the most recent change, I made SD track all the damage you did BEFORE resistances, and then do 50% of that (including resistances, and with its big bundle of ArPen -- ie, I kept the piercing fix). So now it is single-dipping again.
    * It turns out this is how HR Piercing Blade was working already (tracking damage you do before resistances, and, with the piercing fix, having the bonus damage include resistances, with a bundle of ArPen). That's why PB didn't need a further fix (post-piercing changes) but SD did.

    So what this means is if your target *has* some (net) resistances, the change will make SD do more damage. That won't matter in PvE with full ArPen, but it will happen in PvP (the global resist if nothing else). But if your target has (net) vulnerability (and remember that, in-engine, vulnerability is basically negative resistance), SD will do less damage than it did during that brief period on live between the piercing changes and this recent fix, when it was double-dipping.

    P.S. Nothing to do with either the 3lvl delta reduction or topple. At least, not intentionally. :P
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    dupeks said:

    Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?

    LoL, I should have known this thread would want the gory details!

    OK, here follows TMI for my fellow math nerds:
    * Before the piercing changes, SD tracked all the damage you did (after resistances) and then did 50% of that (ignoring resistances).
    * With the big piercing fix, SD did 50% of damage *including* resistances (but had a big bundle of ArPen attached to it to make it piercing). That meant it was now double-dipping.
    * In the most recent change, I made SD track all the damage you did BEFORE resistances, and then do 50% of that (including resistances, and with its big bundle of ArPen -- ie, I kept the piercing fix). So now it is single-dipping again.
    * It turns out this is how HR Piercing Blade was working already (tracking damage you do before resistances, and, with the piercing fix, having the bonus damage include resistances, with a bundle of ArPen). That's why PB didn't need a further fix (post-piercing changes) but SD did.

    So what this means is if your target *has* some (net) resistances, the change will make SD do more damage. That won't matter in PvE with full ArPen, but it will happen in PvP (the global resist if nothing else). But if your target has (net) vulnerability (and remember that, in-engine, vulnerability is basically negative resistance), SD will do less damage than it did during that brief period on live between the piercing changes and this recent fix, when it was double-dipping.

    P.S. Nothing to do with either the 3lvl delta reduction or topple. At least, not intentionally. :P
    Thanks for the clarification and the engagement, much appreciated!

    So SoD may do more damage in PvE only if you were not fully mitigating the enemy DR with your RI. Put another way, SoD will be more effective for lower-geared folks but quite a bit less effective for most end-game groups, where DR is fully mitigated. It's a fix to the double-dip, and nothing more.

    In PvP it's a whole other beast. Not even going to touch that.

    PS: We always want more gory details. The gory-er and mathy-er, the better-er :)
  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Guess I'll be hanging up pvp on my DC till gf and pally change


    Edit: joking but good to see tr get a little love tho it'll still be bad
    Post edited by andre#8369 on
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    Hello all!

    I wanted to let people know what's happened with a few loose threads that are still hanging.

    * Potions: People seemed to be pushing for fewer rather than more categories, and I appreciate that. It's what I would do if we were starting from scratch. But after thinking about it some more, I wanted to preserve the value of alchemy (I know, I know, much more is needed, but I didn't want to make it *worse*), which pretty much required it have a category separate from the elixirs. And I didn't want to nuke everyone's investment in various Event Foods (collapsing them with Stronghold Foods would make it hard for both to have a place) so I kept that category. That means we're at 7 instead of 5, but that's still way better than 27.

    * Empowered DC Astral Shield: yes, it's really insane in PvP. We have a fix coming in soon where it gives 1% per level (instead of the current 3% per level) in PvP. It's still really good in PvP. We also slightly reduced the duration on it (10s to 8s) in both PvE and PvP, because the uptime was just too much (it was way too easy to get it to 100% uptime).

    * There were some questions about the 60% AP reduction number. That 60% came from the simple fact that for a typical amount of Tenacity (for a well-geared player) you got about 40% of the other PvP stats, and 60% AP reduction. So it doesn't represent a change so much as a continuation. That said, if people test it and find it's too high or too low, we can certainly tune it. But my starting point was "about equal to what was there before" simply because there didn't seem to be a consensus for either raising it or lowering it from where it is now.

    * After some more testing, and some more mulling over things, Rogue's Shocking Execution has been given a 25% increase in base damage to make up a bit for its losing its old (somewhat broken, see discussion above and in the other threads) version of piercing.

    * The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).

    * The infamous leaderboard bug has been tracked down and fixed. Because the leaderboard math was also feeding into the matchmaking math, I'm hoping this will make the PvP experience much better even for players who care nothing about leaderboards. We can't test leaderboard progression in a truly realistic way internally, so when this fix goes live, it would be awesome if people watched their ratings and let us know if there are still any problems.

    These changes are probably about it until the next module goes live on preview, at which point we should have a new feedback thread talking about the changes and what tuning is needed.

    Good work with the outreach and hard work behind they scenes we appreciate it a lot. The number of potions a person could use definitely needed to be toned down along with the DC shield. But I wanted to give you a few suggestions to do what you will with and maybe a few questions.

    Suggestion:
    1. Turn the global armor pen reduction number to 50%. This way it will be much easier to understand exactly how much you need to fight your opponent and this way we can have a bit more power so more people will be likely to die for instance Hunter rangers and TR's I hate them so much lol.
    2. Make different leaderboards for each classes k/d and WIN/LOSS so we can more accurately see where we stand.
    3. Please consider turning the radius down of Astral shield and pillar of power (or as I call it Island of power).
    4. Maybe we should start to look at Guardian fighters seemingly unlimited stamina and combat hunter rangers with their 100% deflection chance if they are specced right.

    Questions:
    1. When do you guys plan on removing tenacity on gear and moving it to your character as a "global pvp buff"?
    2. When do you think we are getting those control changes that were hinted?
    3. Can you give console players a definitive date we will get chult?

    Thank you again for keeping us informed.
    -Trent


    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • sin#5686 sin Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    * Empowered DC Astral Shield: yes, it's really insane in PvP. We have a fix coming in soon where it gives 1% per level (instead of the current 3% per level) in PvP. It's still really good in PvP. We also slightly reduced the duration on it (10s to 8s) in both PvE and PvP, because the uptime was just too much (it was way too easy to get it to 100% uptime).

    Lol, I actually feel the people you get your information from are clueless do you just get you information from poorly geared players and people and just think yeah AS is OP lets nerf it (no offence)

    ALLOW ME to explain why this is DUMB.

    Todays meta is ALL CC (even though we ALL HATE CC) for example, 2 Courage break Trs, 2 oppressor Cdubs and a DC or trapper, no damage so Astral shield is relatively pointless in this instance,

    BECAUSE we're all fed up of being stuck in 1 spot (Courage break TR) or being pushed around the node (Oppressor CDUB) we now run rainbow teams (as the name suggests never two of 1 class)

    A GF, that you've apparently nerfed can easily 1 rotate my FULLY DEFENSIVE best in slot top DC on Xbox...

    A combat HR can 100-0 me if I was to stand still (ESPECIALLY IF AS SHIELD GET NERFED MY WHOLE TEAM WOULD MELT...

    A Renegade Cdub can 100-0 me if I let it too....

    When you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>TOP PLAYERS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< playing against OTHER TOP PAYERS astral shield is a vital instrument to keep your team alive, I have a 2 second cool down on my astral shield and in those 2 seconds I'm literally always fighting for my life and fighting to stay alive WHILST SITTING IN SMOKEBOMBS, there is SO MUCH DAMAGE it's not even funny perhaps with the upcoming changes to piercing damage I won't have to worry about some classes anymore, but my biggest fear is a GF, the TOP DC's on xbox are building there character around surviving a 500k+ DAMAGE ROTATION FROM A CLASS THAT YOU'VE "NERFED".

    You seem to be basing all your statistics on 1v1s, yes if 1 person is sitting on me they won't kill me AND THEY SHOULDN'T! taking down a healer should be a team effort, coordinating your attack to bring down the most BULLIED viable healer class in PvP.

    You have made 3 classes near enough obsolete for the last 3 mods, Warlocks in PvP are laggy, Warlocks bargain is still so broken it's not even funny, GWFs are just terrible and run aimlessly around nodes and nobody will play against a paladin with the deflect damage loop that wipes your entire team and healadins are just face palm.

    My biggest fear with the upcoming changes to tenacity and armour resist is that it's going to be a melt fest, GF's will run rampant.

    GF's are the scariest most OP damage class out there right now, they can do STUPID damage with 2k armour pen LOOL.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I INVITE YOU (the Devs)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    to look at a top pre made the best of the best against each other and base your decisions on that because half of these things you're considering nerfing and buffing have the potential to further kill the smallest community in the game

    NO PVE GEARED TOON should come into pvp expecting to do damage or not die! It;s football and hockey THEY'RE DIFFERENT

    NO 1 CLASS should have the ability to 1 rotate you with 500k+ damage with stuns, knock backs etc

    IF you're standing on a node with astral shield up which usually has SMOKE BOMBS ALL OVER IT ANYWAY then the nerf is a nerf times 10000000

    I'm literally SICK of literal NOOBS MOANING about things and YOU implementing them when there GAME KNOWLEDGE is PANTS.

    THE MAJORITY of FOOLS that come onto this forum HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT!

    LITRALLY F.O.O.L.S





  • whitestaruawhitestarua Member Posts: 175 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    @rgutscheradev

    What about HR Trapper damage in pvp? Is so low...
    You can half CC but please make something with this damage - it is horrible.

    Not right now, but in new module. Please look into this theme.


    P.S: i can make a lot of text explanation or video records of fights if you need.

  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    No need to touch DCs again not like I have a rotation to kill someone. Smh.

    Lets do a quick tweak to gfs and pallies....they're becoming even more unstoppable.
  • toplaymoretoplaymore Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    @rgutscheradev
    What about fast AP gain in PVP? Oppressors, perma Courage Breaker and other daily-spammers?
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    @rgutscheradev
    What about fast AP gain in PVP? Oppressors, perma Courage Breaker and other daily-spammers?

    +1
    reducing cooldowns on dailies and on action points gain (just like healing depression )was already suggested/ mentioned and listed in this thread

    Dc artifact Sigil (daily refiller )is going to need a nerf or a limitation on dailies per miniute
  • whisper5610#3927 whisper5610 Member Posts: 1 New User
    Tr, hits hard in pve, fix the bug, tr is op in pvp fix the bug, ive been playing the tr since NW came out on ps4. The tr is a class thats not like the the typical Dps class like the GWF l. If anything the Gwf needs to get fixed or corrected, when was the last time the tr got an upgrade in anything like a buff. Yet if the tr gets a slight edge of damage increase whether in pve or pvp. Let's correct or fix a bug. To be able to play the other dps classes takes some form of intelligence, Unlike the. Gwf whom is just cookie cut Dps. Why take away, nerf, correct, bug or negate any of the power moves "bread and butter" of the tr and make them totally non viable to play in pve or pvp because the player using the tr is good in knowing how to utilize the tr. It's a shame that the tr is an unappreciated character whom is always the scapegoat for getting fixed, corrected or "Nerfed".
  • mafiadelperro#8853 mafiadelperro Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    All this complain about TR in pvp but seriously i think less of the 5% nw comunity plays pvp so making nerf to the TR cause is ok on pvp and now is useless on pve lol serious
  • darthtzarrdarthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User

    How about they delete all the classes' individualities and make them all the same? Let Neverwinter have one class?

    That is the only way to create the perfect balance so many people seem to desire.

    This is how it should work though:

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

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