also wondering If pvp records will get published for the private Q and mess/ mix up leader board and standings as well
there should be no records of kills or deaths or anything for private Q as it will discourage new and old people alike from trying / participating / being shamed / bragging
I mean half the reason why they'd have private queues is for the epeen warriors to beat each other up instead of pugs. If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made.
No one pvp's for pvp rewards lmfaooo, you guys are clearly pve players. None of this will change the SKILL gap between players all of these changes disregard the fact that some people are just better than others, regaurdless of IL or tenacity or premades or solo Q some people just .... suck
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
also wondering If pvp records will get published for the private Q and mess/ mix up leader board and standings as well
there should be no records of kills or deaths or anything for private Q as it will discourage new and old people alike from trying / participating / being shamed / bragging
I mean half the reason why they'd have private queues is for the epeen warriors to beat each other up instead of pugs. If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made.
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
different Qs should have different records is all im saying nothing to do with epeen everything to do with making it comfortable for new people .. and allow for testing of powers and comps which should not reflect in overall leaderboard just like you could game rewards you could game / farm kills
@urabask said " If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made." by clicking on where exacly ?? you dont even know... so dont pretend to just like you thought way back in a thread that tenacity was not working for me LOL
dude who said such options exists or does not exist.. thats why i'm asking ...
also wondering If pvp records will get published for the private Q and mess/ mix up leader board and standings as well
there should be no records of kills or deaths or anything for private Q as it will discourage new and old people alike from trying / participating / being shamed / bragging
I mean half the reason why they'd have private queues is for the epeen warriors to beat each other up instead of pugs. If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made.
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
different Qs should have different records is all im saying nothing to do with epeen everything to do with making it comfortable for new people .. and allow for testing of powers and comps which should not reflect in overall leaderboard just like you could game rewards you could game / farm kills
@urabask said " If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made." by clicking on where exacly ?? you dont even know... so dont pretend to just like you thought way back in a thread that tenacity was not working for me LOL
dude who said such options exists or does not exist.. thats why i'm asking ...
What does it matter if they do or do not exist? The whole point in a feedback thread is to ask the devs to make changes. Asking them to restrict things further as you did makes absolutely no sense. Furthermore they could get rid of the leaderboard for all it matters. It's just a ruler for people that are compensating for something. Plenty of better games don't have leaderboards and do just fine.
I mean ffs why do you even care about leaderboard records for a game that pairs 7k ilvl vs 16k ilvl players? Nothing about it is remotely competitive enough to even justify a leaderboard existing.
No one pvp's for pvp rewards lmfaooo, you guys are clearly pve players. None of this will change the SKILL gap between players all of these changes disregard the fact that some people are just better than others, regaurdless of IL or tenacity or premades or solo Q some people just .... suck
Pfft. Throw the average NW PvPer into a game of Dota or CSGO and they'd get slaughtered. Playing in a small pool makes bad players think they're better than they are. Actually competitive gamers don't play PvP in games like Neverwinter. They might play in other less competitive FPSes/Mobas/etc but very few games lower the bar as far as Neverwinter.
also wondering If pvp records will get published for the private Q and mess/ mix up leader board and standings as well
there should be no records of kills or deaths or anything for private Q as it will discourage new and old people alike from trying / participating / being shamed / bragging
I mean half the reason why they'd have private queues is for the epeen warriors to beat each other up instead of pugs. If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made.
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
different Qs should have different records is all im saying nothing to do with epeen everything to do with making it comfortable for new people .. and allow for testing of powers and comps which should not reflect in overall leaderboard just like you could game rewards you could game / farm kills
@urabask said " If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made." by clicking on where exacly ?? you dont even know... so dont pretend to just like you thought way back in a thread that tenacity was not working for me LOL
dude who said such options exists or does not exist.. thats why i'm asking ...
What does it matter if they do or do not exist? The whole point in a feedback thread is to ask the devs to make changes. Asking them to restrict things further as you did makes absolutely no sense. Furthermore they could get rid of the leaderboard for all it matters. It's just a ruler for people that are compensating for something. Plenty of better games don't have leaderboards and do just fine.
I mean ffs why do you even care about leaderboard records for a game that pairs 7k ilvl vs 16k ilvl players? Nothing about it is remotely competitive enough to even justify a leaderboard existing.
No one pvp's for pvp rewards lmfaooo, you guys are clearly pve players. None of this will change the SKILL gap between players all of these changes disregard the fact that some people are just better than others, regaurdless of IL or tenacity or premades or solo Q some people just .... suck
Pfft. Throw the average NW PvPer into a game of Dota or CSGO and they'd get slaughtered. Playing in a small pool makes bad players think they're better than they are. Actually competitive gamers don't play PvP in games like Neverwinter. They might play in other less competitive FPSes/Mobas/etc but very few games lower the bar as far as Neverwinter.
You ignored the entire point of my comment lol so therefore you are clearly a pve player lmfaooooo, as a pvp player who started at a low IL and got on my grind strictly to pvp the biggest issue I could say is that who ever makes changes to the game doesn't take pvp into account so much so some classes do too much damage or tank too much. With this player base its only normal to have a big gap or no gap at all, but tenacity isn't the gap if you guys wanted to know, it only takes 30 days to get a full prestige set which is easy, but can take way longer to get something from pve and no one sees a problem with that lol ridiculous. Premades isn't an issue neither just join a premade of your own, now joining a premade of your own wont mean you will be an equal match for others but it will be better than moaning. IL doesn't really mean much its all about stats anyway so idk why people bring this up. In pve we have groups who only team up with high IL to get things done so what do you think people are gonna do in pvp lets be real now. All these arguments about why pvp sucks only comes from people who lose in pvp and refuse to take blame for the losses so they make ridiculous arguments about things that have nothing to do with why they lost.
also wondering If pvp records will get published for the private Q and mess/ mix up leader board and standings as well
there should be no records of kills or deaths or anything for private Q as it will discourage new and old people alike from trying / participating / being shamed / bragging
I mean half the reason why they'd have private queues is for the epeen warriors to beat each other up instead of pugs. If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made.
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
different Qs should have different records is all im saying nothing to do with epeen everything to do with making it comfortable for new people .. and allow for testing of powers and comps which should not reflect in overall leaderboard just like you could game rewards you could game / farm kills
@urabask said " If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made." by clicking on where exacly ?? you dont even know... so dont pretend to just like you thought way back in a thread that tenacity was not working for me LOL
dude who said such options exists or does not exist.. thats why i'm asking ...
What does it matter if they do or do not exist? The whole point in a feedback thread is to ask the devs to make changes. Asking them to restrict things further as you did makes absolutely no sense. Furthermore they could get rid of the leaderboard for all it matters. It's just a ruler for people that are compensating for something. Plenty of better games don't have leaderboards and do just fine.
I mean ffs why do you even care about leaderboard records for a game that pairs 7k ilvl vs 16k ilvl players? Nothing about it is remotely competitive enough to even justify a leaderboard existing.
No one pvp's for pvp rewards lmfaooo, you guys are clearly pve players. None of this will change the SKILL gap between players all of these changes disregard the fact that some people are just better than others, regaurdless of IL or tenacity or premades or solo Q some people just .... suck
Pfft. Throw the average NW PvPer into a game of Dota or CSGO and they'd get slaughtered. Playing in a small pool makes bad players think they're better than they are. Actually competitive gamers don't play PvP in games like Neverwinter. They might play in other less competitive FPSes/Mobas/etc but very few games lower the bar as far as Neverwinter.
You ignored the entire point of my comment lol so therefore you are clearly a pve player lmfaooooo, as a pvp player who started at a low IL and got on my grind strictly to pvp the biggest issue I could say is that who ever makes changes to the game doesn't take pvp into account so much so some classes do too much damage or tank too much. With this player base its only normal to have a big gap or no gap at all, but tenacity isn't the gap if you guys wanted to know, it only takes 30 days to get a full prestige set which is easy, but can take way longer to get something from pve and no one sees a problem with that lol ridiculous. Premades isn't an issue neither just join a premade of your own, now joining a premade of your own wont mean you will be an equal match for others but it will be better than moaning. IL doesn't really mean much its all about stats anyway so idk why people bring this up. In pve we have groups who only team up with high IL to get things done so what do you think people are gonna do in pvp lets be real now. All these arguments about why pvp sucks only comes from people who lose in pvp and refuse to take blame for the losses so they make ridiculous arguments about things that have nothing to do with why they lost.
First of all: Holy run-on sentences Batman.
No, I didn't ignore the point of your post. PvP players like to brag about skill but the thing is when you have a game as dead as Neverwinter PvP it never gets to the point where it's actually competitive. The community is too small and it doesn't attract the types of players that make it competitive. It's missing all of the basic features of any remotely competitive PvP game so the only players left are those that refuse to admit there are problems.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
"The whole point in a feedback thread is to ask the devs to make changes. Asking them to restrict things further as you did makes absolutely no sense."
Wait... lol the point of this thread is to ask for changes no ? ... but a restriction is NOT a change or feedback in your book gotcha *check off box* I can play the semantics game all day lol
and not placing and scoreING ON A LEADERBOARD in a free for all match (TO NAME AND SHAME NEW PLAYERS )is not RESTRICTION IN MY BOOK.. .
and having a different leaderboard FOR SOLO q VS 5 MAN Q IS ALSO NOT A RESTRICTION bro
the devs said they are fixing the leaderboard " low hanging fruit" bro thats why i care
the custom Q is a testing/ premade environment ... and some one already posted those records are not calculated with the main leaderboard..
"I mean ffs why do you even care about leaderboard records for a game that pairs 7k ilvl vs 16k ilvl players? Nothing about it" is remotely competitive enough to even justify a leaderboard existing"
did you ever consider fixing the leader Board may fix the matchmaking system as well and that they are related ?> and if so then is the leaderboard justified in your salty mind ??
you are just one salty dude
I love how you chose to ignore answering any of my good points ....
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors acording to you ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
thanks for offering useful positive feedback bro or go back to PVE since pvp is not competitive like you say why are wasting your time in this thread then ??
awwee shucks you must still care lol
this is coming from a guy that told me tenacity was not working for me when I had the lowest deaths from any Cw on the Server .. I guess it was not working for him.... and he likes to project
"The whole point in a feedback thread is to ask the devs to make changes. Asking them to restrict things further as you did makes absolutely no sense."
Wait... lol the point of this thread is to ask for changes no ? ... but a restriction is NOT a change or feedback in your book gotcha *check off box* I can play the semantics game all day lol
The thing is that restrictions like you're asking for actually prevent the types of matches that would actually matter for a leaderboard from being counted. pugstomps where one team sit at a campfire just skew data in ways that aren't helpful whereas a premade match is more relevant towards evaluating a player.
"I mean ffs why do you even care about leaderboard records for a game that pairs 7k ilvl vs 16k ilvl players? Nothing about it" is remotely competitive enough to even justify a leaderboard existing"
did you ever consider fixing the leader Board may fix the matchmaking system as well and that they are related ?>
This assumes that there enough people queuing for PvP for it to have a noticeable effect. Even if it could, the degree to which it would have to separate the player population to create competitive matches would result in insane wait times anyways. The changes they'd have to make to the leaderboard in order to actually make matchmaking competitive would be so drastic that they're far from low hanging fruit.
It's also disingenuous to imply that the primary motivation behind wanting the leaderboard fixed is primarily for that when we all know why leaderboards exist.
I love how you chose to ignore answering any of my good points ....
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors acording to you ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
It's not even a good point because one of the clear benefits of a private queue would be to allow premades (epeen warriors) to play against each other (as they claim to want). For most players any other result is secondary. Then you're going to take away their leaderboard points and they'll just go back to pugstomping.
thanks for offering useful positive feedback bro or got back to PVE since pvp is not competitive like you say why are wasting your time in this thread then ??
Because the devs finally seem to care and the only feedback that PvP players (admittedly not all of them but there are plenty like chefouey) will give is to preserve their circle jerk.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
It's also disingenuous to imply that the primary motivation behind (me / people ) wanting the leaderboard fixed is for selfish reasons.
disingenuous for who lol?
how could you possible know my motivations for wanting the leaderboard fixed or someone elses... always assuming conspiracy theories
actually you are right there is q problem here
some people might not fight if results in private are published .. and other might want them published for bragging rights .. or not at all cause they are training / helping . its a slippery slope
regardless in solo regular 5 man / GG they should always be published I think
It's also disingenuous to imply that the primary motivation behind (me / people ) wanting the leaderboard fixed is for selfish reasons.
disingenuous for who lol?
how could you possible know my motivations for wanting the leaderboard fixed or someone elses... always assuming conspiracy theories
actually you are right there is q problem here
some people might not fight if results in private are published .. and other might want them published for bragging rights .. or not at all cause they are training / helping . its a slippery slope
regardless in solo regular 5 man / GG they should always be published I think
Oh Christ. The primary reason why leaderboards exist is to be epeen measuring sticks. It's like that in every game.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I actually mostly used the leaderboard to rank myself to see how I do compared to other people ( CWS ) in my class aside from that you are right ...but as a guildy of mine suggested maybe there should be ranks of tiers within leader board so you can still fight people in your weight class
Some of you are missing the point of the changes - they are for the purpose of getting more people into pvp. That means new players and casual 'dippers' who like to have a go now and then.
These players won't have the time-investment to earn pvp gear and it's often the case that their first couple of matches put them off entirely and they never go back. That is a huge negative for the pvp community as much as it is for pve players who could learn to like this alternative aspect of the game.
Yes, the IL gap and tactical experience means the dedicated pvp'ers will still win most matches, but if the others can at least have some fun by improved survivability, living long enough to have a bit of a fight, then the amount of people actually queuing will go up and the pvp community will grow.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
I am having trouble following this conversation. What are people debating?
Leaderboard fix would be good. Sure, why not? Adds a bit of epeen reward.
However, I don't think private q should count towards leaderboard. Looks like it doesn't count towards leaderboard on ptr, so that's good. Primary Reason: anyone can q 1v1 for domination vs an alt and get 5000 wins 50000 kills 0 losses 0 deaths. This would make the leaderboard completely useless, even if fixed.
This has all been told to the PVPers before, and frankly I do not think cryptic will invest any time of note to fix the hugely broken PVP system. It is nice to have dialogue for once in a very long time, but given the three month schedule of modules the PVPers are in for more disappointment...all 20 of them.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
I actually mostly used the leaderboard to rank myself to see how I do compared to other people ( CWS ) in my class aside from that you are right ...but as a guildy of mine suggested maybe there should be ranks of tiers within leader board so you can still fight people in your weight class
YOU cant rankyourself in a teamplay mode. NO matter how many kills -deaths you have that doesnt coming only from you if you have 4 other team members assisting you how you can rank yourself vs other wizards when you dont know what teams they have what build they have what is their role of their build and how much help get in a match.
Set a ranked ladder on PVP. And make queues match rank not IL.
Example.
Maximum offset is the amount of points you lose or gain in a match, so if you are at rank 1500 and gain, lets say a match gives 45 points(random number), you are now at 1545 and can be put up against rank 1500-1590 toons.
Or if you lose 45 points u are now rank 1455 and go against 1410-1500 rank toons. If none available it will expand the que both ways until a match is found. The greater the rank difference the greater the rise or fall in rank can be.
It will balance itself, because of the skills and gear, highly skilled and geared will go up in rank fast and soon the BIS and most skilled are at the top and unskilled and low geared will remain lower.
So theres no way u ever have to fight 20 stomp matches a row against BIS or highly geared players, only when the rank ladder begins there might be some fights as the ladder forms but after that its likely to remain pretty even gear and skill wise, at times there will be new players who are starting at 1500 but soon will be set where the skills and gear are.
Getting better powers or items does not raise your rank, the only way is to fight and win.
Every match, either lost or won, awards you with glory or some other currency to better your gear/items etc. in both PVP and PVE.
The problem of PVP is not gear or IL its the que system, if it was purely rank based we would not have these issues of pug stomping and BIS premades vs PVE pugs, or lower gear PVP pugs.
Its good if the private que gets on live, but make a solo 1vs1 to 5vs5 ques based on rank, not IL, if you want more competetive PVP in neverwinter.
At this point. PvP pop dwindles each module. Unless changes happen soon, it'll be beyond repair. The changes that need to happen are overarching changes... not necessarily "current meta balancing". Making it accessible for all players and a game where retired players can come back and have incentive to actually play again... Where NEW players can hit 70 and que up for PVP without FIRST being forced to get mounts, insignias, farm dailies for over a month, etc....
So... The over arching changes that need to happen. 1) Tenacity removed from all gear and instead BUFF everyones "base tenacity" levels to where appropriate. (I would probably start with: 40% DR, 40% Crit Resist, 50% ARP resist and 40% CC resist and tweak from there)
2) Crit resist moved. Crit resist will now be applied to your crit SEVERITY - not the "crit damage".
3) ARP universally changed to 200:1 or 300:1 for both PVE and PVP. Dr reworked in PVE to about ~35% (which when THIS is done - we can remove ARP resist COMPLETELY as a stat).
4) whatever they have planned for CC Dim returns. Possibly at the removal of CC resist in pvp. Maybe hardcap all CC to 3sec and each subsequent CC lowered by 1sec, min of .5 or 1sec. Unsure though. (POSSIBLY also accompanied with a REMOVAL CC resist... POSSIBLY...)
5) some form of stat equalization. - Wow model. - Iyons diminishing returns curves -remove boons from PvP. - A "bolster" system for lower item level players @ 70.
TO elaborate on these: #1 Removing tenacity on gear and providing ALL players with a BASE level of tenacity removes 1 barrier to entry - tenacity. So now ANY player can do PVP: New, PVE, etc. While "tenacity" on gear isnt a BAD idea... it completely SPLITs the community. We need PVE players feeling welcomed and competitive in PVP. We also want NEW players able to grab some gear and hop into PVP with fewer barriers. Tenacity on GEAR provides a significant barrier to entry... Even a few small %s add up to a large difference in tenacity DR. Especially when your factor in the multiplictive impacts of more DR, crit resist and ARP resist... It makes for a VERY VERY lopsided fight....
#2 Crits are a VERY weird place right now. If you have "decent" effectiveness (like ~40%) (meaning what % of damage actually applied to your enemy in PVP) your crits will actually deal LESS damage than non crits (assuming you have 75% severity and attack a 43% tenacity player). Also, due to crit resist being a separate "layer" of damage reduction this actually places ARP at an INVERSE relationship with Crits... Where as you increase your effectiveness above the 20% minimum "floor" the actual "bonus damage over non crits" crits provide is LESS and LESS - rather than MORE.
As an example... If you HIT for 10,000 with only 20% effectiveness your damage is 2,000. Very straight forward math. If you then CRIT (with 75% severity) your damage goes from 10k -> 17,500. Your effectiveness is still at the 20% minimum, therefore you will do 3,500! MEANING you essentially had ZERO "crit resist" impact this formula.
So here, regardless of crit resist, your crits dealt the FULL bonus of crit. Heck you could have 80% "crit resist" and due to the 20% "floor aka minimum effectiveness" youll STILL get the full value of crit bonus - because at lower RI %s, the more crit damage bonus does...
What happens if you get more ARP = more "effectiveness"? Well lets instead assume that you raised your effectiveness to 35% (from 20%) in PVP...
Now your 10,000 damage = 3,500. Which is good! Your non-crits now dealt the same as your prior crits! Well what does a crit look like? 3,500 non crit = 6,125 Crit (@75% severity) but NOW we have to add our special "crit resist" layer = 6,125 *( 1-crit resist) = 6,125 *(1-43%) = 3,491 NET result.... Yes... You read this right, LESS damage than a NON CRIT!!!!
So to put this bluntly... Getting MORE ARP/RI in PVP all things being equal made your crits WORSE than non crits!
Now, one might look at this and be tempted to say "well we just need to reduce crit resist from 43% to say 35% then" and yes - this is ONE option, however a poor one IMO. Because this still doesnt remove the inverse relationship these have, it also puts MORE "value" on classes who can get higher crit severity.... (I can detail math but this is very simple to see via damage formula).
No, a BETTER system is to merely remove this "layer" and MOVE IT to your Crit SEVERITY instead. So lets look at our examples again.
Now crits work WITH higher ARP/RI values rather than AGAINST IT! So this fixed BOTH problems with crit resist: 1) Crits dealing less damage than non crits (aka crits not being worth it in PVP). 2) Crits having an INVERSE return with higher RI %.
If this makes "crits too good in PVP" then we can adjust crit resist (when it applies to only severity) to say 50%, or 60%.... but this way ARP/RI work in tandem with crit damage, not against it.
#3 ARP universally changes to 200:1% or 300:1%. This has already been hinted at by @rgutscheradev and is very important IMO. The END GOAL should be remove "Arp Resist" but the only way to do this, is to make it scale at a much more "realistic" rate such as 200:1 or 300:1... Having a counter stat apply at 4x the rate of the stat itself makes the stat itself worthless. The only exception to this would be if defense (stat) were 4x EASIER to get than ARP... but the truth is they are minimally "even" in terms of "ability to stack... such as the SOURCES of defense compared to sources of ARP... You also dont want to make the SH Defense boon worthless for PVP now do we?
Now, If ARP ONLY impacted Defense (stat) then this wouldnt be a big problem - the stat "defense" would just be VERY easy to counter.... But you have classes entirely BUILT around high DR (GWF), you have enchants that are now made useless (Negation) due to being able to easily counter it. You have class abilities (DC Astral Shield) that now are made useless due to the ease in which you can stack ARP. A player can merely throw on a 4k ARP mount, and slot the SH ARP Boon, and have 12k ARP minimum (not including gear or ability score RI) and basically moot out ANY and ALL DR in the game. So things like defensive stat, AC, ability DR, class mechanics ALL made "useless" against this person who frankly - didnt have to give up much to get 12k ARP...
Now the problem with MERELY adjusting it to 200:1 or 300:1% is that PVE now becomes VERY VERY hard if mobs retain their high level of DR %. So mobs would also need to have DR % adjusted.
I would advocate for: looking at the AVERAGE DR levels of all the classes. Pegging MOB DR to be towards the high end (~35%) and then balancing ARP returns off that.
This is the best way to balance. It also retains VALUE of "defense" as a stat - so things like Defense stat indefensive slots are not wasted. As well as things like the Defense SH boon, etc.
#4 I will wait on posting more on this. Bottom line is that CC is too much in PVP. CC combos dominate. Other games have used Diminshing returns as well as "immunity". I have yet to hear a REALLY good solution for this... So I will post my "gut reaction" thoughts:
- Separate out all forms of CC into 3 types: displacement CC (think repel), STUNs (includes daze), and Prone.
Whenever you are hit with ONE form of CC, it will apply an immunity timer for a few seconds to other CC of that FORM. (Example: You are hit with a prone, once you get up you are immune to all prone effects for X seconds, but can still but hit with repel(displacement) OR a stun).
#5 Stat Equalization. The best for last. This I have more or less touched on above: a new player hits 70, wants to PVP. In the EARLY days, there were no boons, no tenacity, so hitting 60 (level cap back then) and MERELY getting some BLUE gear and "decent" enchants were all you needed. Well, today we are about to hit module 12, and how many "boon campaigns" do we have? I have already covered that BOONS = about 2/3rds of a players stats... So a NEW player with no boons goes into PVP and has ~33% (actually less because this assumes full "best in slot" GEAR)
Thus far, I think the BEST solution is some form of stat scaling. One such method could be to come up with an "average item level" for PVP such that if your item level is HIGHER than this, you are DE-BOLSTERED down to that level and if your item level is LOWER you are BOLSTERED UP to that level (akin to the skirmishes or lower tier PVP where say a lvl 42 is boosted up to a 49). I realize the formula is much diffferent so it would require a new one, but this would equalize PVP without removing the value of items or boons....
Bottom line is this: The barriers to entry in PVP are far too high, which prevents NEW players from PVPing and also prevents PVE players from PVPing. This is what has lead to the poor state of PVP... What I have done above is identify the largest barriers to entry and discussed the best ways (IMO) to remove and reduce those barriers all while STILL having "gear progression" be a relevant thing for PVP.
I am happy to chat more about these, PM me if you wish or we can hop in discord and chat too!
There is no fixing PvP when you are trying to make it coexist with PvE. It just won't happen. I've been through the other threads. It just doesn't matter. People who want to dip in can't, and won't be able to compete with the current state, or a fix of the current state. Everyone is so concerned on keeping what they "have worked for". Balance doesn't happen that way. You want balance? Strip all your gear/boons and choose from a set amount that all get to choose from. That is another level of balancing the classes apart from the mechanics of the game. You don't have to worry as much about piercing dmg, or Dr, or armpen, etc, if you only have so much gear, or kits to choose from. Seriously, I will not play Monopoly with someone who insists on starting the game with two houses on boardwalk cuz they had hotels the last time they played, or someone who wants to play poker and start out with a wild card cuz " they have played longer and earned it".
Multiple maps and strategic objectives also change what builds and classes are viable, or wanted/needed. No need to wait on releasing or making them available. Domination is cool, but variety is the spice of life. (And why only one entry point on to the map from spawn?)
It is really awesome that attention is being paid to the problems that plague PvP and I wish all luck in solving them. I also want to say to all, keep the discussion going and don't give up. The game mechanics are great, but Grammy still doesn't want to PvP with Grampy. So sad.
There is no fixing PvP when you are trying to make it coexist with PvE. It just won't happen. I've been through the other threads. It just doesn't matter. People who want to dip in can't, and won't be able to compete with the current state, or a fix of the current state. Everyone is so concerned on keeping what they "have worked for". Balance doesn't happen that way. You want balance? Strip all your gear/boons and choose from a set amount that all get to choose from. That is another level of balancing the classes apart from the mechanics of the game. You don't have to worry as much about piercing dmg, or Dr, or armpen, etc, if you only have so much gear, or kits to choose from. Seriously, I will not play Monopoly with someone who insists on starting the game with two houses on boardwalk cuz they had hotels the last time they played, or someone who wants to play poker and start out with a wild card cuz " they have played longer and earned it".
Multiple maps and strategic objectives also change what builds and classes are viable, or wanted/needed. No need to wait on releasing or making them available. Domination is cool, but variety is the spice of life. (And why only one entry point on to the map from spawn?)
It is really awesome that attention is being paid to the problems that plague PvP and I wish all luck in solving them. I also want to say to all, keep the discussion going and don't give up. The game mechanics are great, but Grammy still doesn't want to PvP with Grampy. So sad.
Wish I could BOTH like and agree to this. I completely agree man. "People who want to dip in can't, and won't be able to compete with the current state, or a fix of the current state." THIS IS SPOT ON!!!
"You want balance? Strip all your gear/boons " - EXACTLY! Problem is I dont see them doing this.... So Ive been trying to specifically identify which areas are causing the biggest gaps. Thats what I wrote above.
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited June 2017
PVP now is burst the enemy better forget it.
A couple of things i think could help beginners and pvp in general:
1. Set a minimum pvp entry requirement, nothing ridiculously high, but something that will grant that whoever queued got ready, something like 8k IL and 500 tenacity.
2. -Change the way insignias work to help fight off bursts of damage "When you are controlled you'll be healed for 5% your HP over 4 seconds", let's suppose that is 1000 every second, well the change would not decrease the total healed HP, instead do something like : Heal 1: 1500; Heal 2: 1250; Heal 3: 750 Heal 4: 500.
-Change Magistrate patience and consideration to 5%/2,5 of enemy life and capped by 10% of player life instead of power to help everyone even beginners wear down the opponent in the same proportion insignias heal in lengthy fights.
-Create a new insignia bonus that will reduce enemy incoming healing up to 20%, can only be applied once every second on the enemy, this because of super lengthy fights.
Would be nice if everyone just had the same base tenacity of 2k so we could all just wear pve armor since that stuff has such nice stats. If anything there should only be pvp rings that increase our "tenacity".
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
Been seeing a lot of "when so-and-so hits 70 and tries to PvP....". I'm thinking most new players have already tried PvP before they hit 70 and already have made a judgement on it. Of course they will most likely try it at 70 and then be convinced that their judgement was correct. It may be too late now to worry about how a new player will react to their first PvP experience, however, that experience has to be as clean as possible for it to have any chance of attracting a casual pvper to come back. Anyone still doing low to mid lvl matches? It doesn't surprise me that they have a general more balanced feel, matches are usually much closer (lower lvl play has always been easier to balance than end game content). But is still so wapper-jawed from equipment, mounts, etc. It is just not a good idea to be able to give them access to high ranking enchants, legendary/epic mounts, mythic artifacts, etc.
I realize this post is fairly repetitive compared to what I have already posted, and what many, many others have posted as well. The reason I revisited it is the huge expectation I had from a game bearing the Neverwinter name. I played Neverwinter Nights forever. It has been hands down the best PvP experience I have had in the DnD world outside of table top. I left the PC world a while back and re entered the console scene mainly for it's lower maintenance and ease of use with the children and the grandchildren. So I am playing Neverwinter from a PS4. The first month or two of PvP was a great experience for me.
Ok, enough of the self pity. Good to see the private and solo ques coming. I must give many thanks for them. For the future maps that have been hinted at - how about a good capture the flag variation where you bust into the enemy fort and grab tokens or gold from a chest. The amount each person can carry based off of a stat or a passive/encounter ability, or anything really that forces people to rethink how they build their character. The amount of dmg you do to the enemy gate can be done the same way, now you have two more things to worry about other than just bashing your opponent's skull (not to mention movement, gotta get the loot back to your base). A team wins after they capture a set amount of tokens/gold. Also, npc guards or guardian at the spawn points, no more hanging out taunting or waiting for your enemy or you might get spanked.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I would pay for access to a PvP arena where all gear, boons, etc were separated from pve.
So something we have been discussing in depth in discord is the idea of using a de-bolster system at 70 - akin to the "Bolster" system used in skirmish and low lvl PVP tiers.
The idea is designed to create "gear/stat equalization" in some form at lvl 70 PVP. Its almost universally agreed that gear gap is one of the #1 issues that plagues PVP. Its a massive barrier to entry for nearly all players as the "power" of a BIS PVP player is on average probably 400% more than an "average" player coming to PVP.
Now, things like tenacity being moved OFF gear and onto character sheet remove 1 barrier. Things like -disabling consumable buffs (pots, food, etc) in PVP also removes another major barrier.
But considering the fact that your GEAR only actually accounts for about 1/3rd of your stats. When a new or "average" player enters PVP, they get completely dominated by some Best In Slot PVP player.
Some level of gear gap is to be desired! This is an MMORPG and gear progression is what its all about.
So rather than "remove" things from PVP. What if the system used a similar formula to the "bolster" system used to equalize the lower level PVP tiers?
Our idea - was once lvl 70, the Bolster/De-Bolster would work based on item level. So hypothetically, lets say 8k becomes the "standard".
So we have a 14k Item level player with 25k Power. ALL his stats would be adjusted as follows: (8k Item Level * Character Item Level) * Stat.
So - 8k/14k*25k Power = 14,285 Power.
Or lets say a 6k Item Level player who has 8k Power goes into PVP=
Comments
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
different Qs should have different records is all im saying nothing to do with epeen everything to do with making it comfortable for new people .. and allow for testing of powers and comps which should not reflect in overall leaderboard
just like you could game rewards you could game / farm kills
@urabask said
" If you want to disable the scoreboard or its affect on your record just make the an option when the queue is made."
by clicking on where exacly ?? you dont even know... so dont pretend to just like you thought way back in a thread that tenacity was not working for me LOL
dude who said such options exists or does not exist.. thats why i'm asking ...
I mean ffs why do you even care about leaderboard records for a game that pairs 7k ilvl vs 16k ilvl players? Nothing about it is remotely competitive enough to even justify a leaderboard existing. Pfft. Throw the average NW PvPer into a game of Dota or CSGO and they'd get slaughtered. Playing in a small pool makes bad players think they're better than they are. Actually competitive gamers don't play PvP in games like Neverwinter. They might play in other less competitive FPSes/Mobas/etc but very few games lower the bar as far as Neverwinter.
No, I didn't ignore the point of your post. PvP players like to brag about skill but the thing is when you have a game as dead as Neverwinter PvP it never gets to the point where it's actually competitive. The community is too small and it doesn't attract the types of players that make it competitive. It's missing all of the basic features of any remotely competitive PvP game so the only players left are those that refuse to admit there are problems.
"The whole point in a feedback thread is to ask the devs to make changes. Asking them to restrict things further as you did makes absolutely no sense."
Wait... lol the point of this thread is to ask for changes no ? ... but a restriction is NOT a change or feedback in your book gotcha *check off box*
I can play the semantics game all day lol
and not placing and scoreING ON A LEADERBOARD in a free for all match (TO NAME AND SHAME NEW PLAYERS )is not RESTRICTION IN MY BOOK.. .
and having a different leaderboard FOR SOLO q VS 5 MAN Q IS ALSO NOT A RESTRICTION bro
the devs said they are fixing the leaderboard " low hanging fruit" bro thats why i care
the custom Q is a testing/ premade environment ... and some one already posted those records are not calculated with the main leaderboard..
@urabask said
"I mean ffs why do you even care about leaderboard records for a game that pairs 7k ilvl vs 16k ilvl players? Nothing about it" is remotely competitive enough to even justify a leaderboard existing"
did you ever consider fixing the leader Board may fix the matchmaking system as well and that they are related ?>
and if so then is the leaderboard justified in your salty mind ??
you are just one salty dude
I love how you chose to ignore answering any of my good points ....
so half the reason they have Q is for Epeen warriors acording to you ? .. and what about the other half reason then according to you ???
thanks for offering useful positive feedback bro or go back to PVE since pvp is not competitive like you say
why are wasting your time in this thread then ??
awwee shucks you must still care lol
this is coming from a guy that told me tenacity was not working for me when I had the lowest deaths from any Cw on the Server .. I guess it was not working for him.... and he likes to project
It's also disingenuous to imply that the primary motivation behind wanting the leaderboard fixed is primarily for that when we all know why leaderboards exist.
It's not even a good point because one of the clear benefits of a private queue would be to allow premades (epeen warriors) to play against each other (as they claim to want). For most players any other result is secondary. Then you're going to take away their leaderboard points and they'll just go back to pugstomping.
Because the devs finally seem to care and the only feedback that PvP players (admittedly not all of them but there are plenty like chefouey) will give is to preserve their circle jerk.
disingenuous for who lol?
how could you possible know my motivations for wanting the leaderboard fixed or someone elses... always assuming conspiracy theories
actually you are right there is q problem here
some people might not fight if results in private are published .. and other might want them published for bragging rights ..
or not at all cause they are training / helping . its a slippery slope
regardless in solo regular 5 man / GG they should always be published I think
aside from that you are right ...but as a guildy of mine suggested maybe there should be ranks of tiers within leader board
so you can still fight people in your weight class
These players won't have the time-investment to earn pvp gear and it's often the case that their first couple of matches put them off entirely and they never go back. That is a huge negative for the pvp community as much as it is for pve players who could learn to like this alternative aspect of the game.
Yes, the IL gap and tactical experience means the dedicated pvp'ers will still win most matches, but if the others can at least have some fun by improved survivability, living long enough to have a bit of a fight, then the amount of people actually queuing will go up and the pvp community will grow.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Leaderboard fix would be good. Sure, why not? Adds a bit of epeen reward.
However, I don't think private q should count towards leaderboard. Looks like it doesn't count towards leaderboard on ptr, so that's good. Primary Reason: anyone can q 1v1 for domination vs an alt and get 5000 wins 50000 kills 0 losses 0 deaths. This would make the leaderboard completely useless, even if fixed.
Iyon the Dark
oh im sorry or was that 20 per game system platform
exaggerate much do we ?
there is plenty of talk from the DEV in the other armor pen feedback thread how they are fixing it ...
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1231983/official-feedback-thread-m12-armor-pen-changes-and-pvp
Example.
Maximum offset is the amount of points you lose or gain in a match, so if you are at rank 1500 and gain, lets say a match gives 45 points(random number), you are now at 1545 and can be put up against rank 1500-1590 toons.
Or if you lose 45 points u are now rank 1455 and go against 1410-1500 rank toons. If none available it will expand the que both ways until a match is found. The greater the rank difference the greater the rise or fall in rank can be.
It will balance itself, because of the skills and gear, highly skilled and geared will go up in rank fast and soon the BIS and most skilled are at the top and unskilled and low geared will remain lower.
So theres no way u ever have to fight 20 stomp matches a row against BIS or highly geared players, only when the rank ladder begins there might be some fights as the ladder forms but after that its likely to remain pretty even gear and skill wise, at times there will be new players who are starting at 1500 but soon will be set where the skills and gear are.
Getting better powers or items does not raise your rank, the only way is to fight and win.
Every match, either lost or won, awards you with glory or some other currency to better your gear/items etc. in both PVP and PVE.
The problem of PVP is not gear or IL its the que system, if it was purely rank based we would not have these issues of pug stomping and BIS premades vs PVE pugs, or lower gear PVP pugs.
Its good if the private que gets on live, but make a solo 1vs1 to 5vs5 ques based on rank, not IL, if you want more competetive PVP in neverwinter.
So... The over arching changes that need to happen.
1) Tenacity removed from all gear and instead BUFF everyones "base tenacity" levels to where appropriate. (I would probably start with: 40% DR, 40% Crit Resist, 50% ARP resist and 40% CC resist and tweak from there)
2) Crit resist moved. Crit resist will now be applied to your crit SEVERITY - not the "crit damage".
3) ARP universally changed to 200:1 or 300:1 for both PVE and PVP. Dr reworked in PVE to about ~35% (which when THIS is done - we can remove ARP resist COMPLETELY as a stat).
4) whatever they have planned for CC Dim returns. Possibly at the removal of CC resist in pvp. Maybe hardcap all CC to 3sec and each subsequent CC lowered by 1sec, min of .5 or 1sec. Unsure though. (POSSIBLY also accompanied with a REMOVAL CC resist... POSSIBLY...)
5) some form of stat equalization.
- Wow model.
- Iyons diminishing returns curves
-remove boons from PvP.
- A "bolster" system for lower item level players @ 70.
TO elaborate on these:
#1 Removing tenacity on gear and providing ALL players with a BASE level of tenacity removes 1 barrier to entry - tenacity. So now ANY player can do PVP: New, PVE, etc. While "tenacity" on gear isnt a BAD idea... it completely SPLITs the community. We need PVE players feeling welcomed and competitive in PVP. We also want NEW players able to grab some gear and hop into PVP with fewer barriers. Tenacity on GEAR provides a significant barrier to entry... Even a few small %s add up to a large difference in tenacity DR. Especially when your factor in the multiplictive impacts of more DR, crit resist and ARP resist... It makes for a VERY VERY lopsided fight....
#2 Crits are a VERY weird place right now. If you have "decent" effectiveness (like ~40%) (meaning what % of damage actually applied to your enemy in PVP) your crits will actually deal LESS damage than non crits (assuming you have 75% severity and attack a 43% tenacity player). Also, due to crit resist being a separate "layer" of damage reduction this actually places ARP at an INVERSE relationship with Crits... Where as you increase your effectiveness above the 20% minimum "floor" the actual "bonus damage over non crits" crits provide is LESS and LESS - rather than MORE.
As an example... If you HIT for 10,000 with only 20% effectiveness your damage is 2,000. Very straight forward math. If you then CRIT (with 75% severity) your damage goes from 10k -> 17,500. Your effectiveness is still at the 20% minimum, therefore you will do 3,500! MEANING you essentially had ZERO "crit resist" impact this formula.
So here, regardless of crit resist, your crits dealt the FULL bonus of crit. Heck you could have 80% "crit resist" and due to the 20% "floor aka minimum effectiveness" youll STILL get the full value of crit bonus - because at lower RI %s, the more crit damage bonus does...
What happens if you get more ARP = more "effectiveness"? Well lets instead assume that you raised your effectiveness to 35% (from 20%) in PVP...
Now your 10,000 damage = 3,500. Which is good! Your non-crits now dealt the same as your prior crits! Well what does a crit look like?
3,500 non crit = 6,125 Crit (@75% severity) but NOW we have to add our special "crit resist" layer =
6,125 *( 1-crit resist) = 6,125 *(1-43%) = 3,491 NET result.... Yes... You read this right, LESS damage than a NON CRIT!!!!
So to put this bluntly... Getting MORE ARP/RI in PVP all things being equal made your crits WORSE than non crits!
Now, one might look at this and be tempted to say "well we just need to reduce crit resist from 43% to say 35% then" and yes - this is ONE option, however a poor one IMO. Because this still doesnt remove the inverse relationship these have, it also puts MORE "value" on classes who can get higher crit severity.... (I can detail math but this is very simple to see via damage formula).
No, a BETTER system is to merely remove this "layer" and MOVE IT to your Crit SEVERITY instead. So lets look at our examples again.
@20% effectiveness. 10,000 damage -> 2,000. Crit @ 75% severity REALLY = (75% * (1-43%)) = 42.75% NEW severity.
2,000 damage = 2,855NEW crit damage.
@35% effectiveness. 10,000 damage -< 3,500. Crit @ 75% severity = 42.75% new severity
3,500 damage crit => 4,996 crit
Now crits work WITH higher ARP/RI values rather than AGAINST IT! So this fixed BOTH problems with crit resist:
1) Crits dealing less damage than non crits (aka crits not being worth it in PVP).
2) Crits having an INVERSE return with higher RI %.
If this makes "crits too good in PVP" then we can adjust crit resist (when it applies to only severity) to say 50%, or 60%.... but this way ARP/RI work in tandem with crit damage, not against it.
#3 ARP universally changes to 200:1% or 300:1%. This has already been hinted at by @rgutscheradev and is very important IMO. The END GOAL should be remove "Arp Resist" but the only way to do this, is to make it scale at a much more "realistic" rate such as 200:1 or 300:1... Having a counter stat apply at 4x the rate of the stat itself makes the stat itself worthless. The only exception to this would be if defense (stat) were 4x EASIER to get than ARP... but the truth is they are minimally "even" in terms of "ability to stack... such as the SOURCES of defense compared to sources of ARP... You also dont want to make the SH Defense boon worthless for PVP now do we?
Now, If ARP ONLY impacted Defense (stat) then this wouldnt be a big problem - the stat "defense" would just be VERY easy to counter.... But you have classes entirely BUILT around high DR (GWF), you have enchants that are now made useless (Negation) due to being able to easily counter it. You have class abilities (DC Astral Shield) that now are made useless due to the ease in which you can stack ARP. A player can merely throw on a 4k ARP mount, and slot the SH ARP Boon, and have 12k ARP minimum (not including gear or ability score RI) and basically moot out ANY and ALL DR in the game. So things like defensive stat, AC, ability DR, class mechanics ALL made "useless" against this person who frankly - didnt have to give up much to get 12k ARP...
Now the problem with MERELY adjusting it to 200:1 or 300:1% is that PVE now becomes VERY VERY hard if mobs retain their high level of DR %. So mobs would also need to have DR % adjusted.
I would advocate for: looking at the AVERAGE DR levels of all the classes. Pegging MOB DR to be towards the high end (~35%) and then balancing ARP returns off that.
This is the best way to balance. It also retains VALUE of "defense" as a stat - so things like Defense stat indefensive slots are not wasted. As well as things like the Defense SH boon, etc.
#4 I will wait on posting more on this. Bottom line is that CC is too much in PVP. CC combos dominate. Other games have used Diminshing returns as well as "immunity". I have yet to hear a REALLY good solution for this... So I will post my "gut reaction" thoughts:
- Separate out all forms of CC into 3 types: displacement CC (think repel), STUNs (includes daze), and Prone.
Whenever you are hit with ONE form of CC, it will apply an immunity timer for a few seconds to other CC of that FORM.
(Example: You are hit with a prone, once you get up you are immune to all prone effects for X seconds, but can still but hit with repel(displacement) OR a stun).
#5 Stat Equalization. The best for last. This I have more or less touched on above: a new player hits 70, wants to PVP. In the EARLY days, there were no boons, no tenacity, so hitting 60 (level cap back then) and MERELY getting some BLUE gear and "decent" enchants were all you needed. Well, today we are about to hit module 12, and how many "boon campaigns" do we have? I have already covered that BOONS = about 2/3rds of a players stats... So a NEW player with no boons goes into PVP and has ~33% (actually less because this assumes full "best in slot" GEAR)
Thus far, I think the BEST solution is some form of stat scaling. One such method could be to come up with an "average item level" for PVP such that if your item level is HIGHER than this, you are DE-BOLSTERED down to that level and if your item level is LOWER you are BOLSTERED UP to that level (akin to the skirmishes or lower tier PVP where say a lvl 42 is boosted up to a 49). I realize the formula is much diffferent so it would require a new one, but this would equalize PVP without removing the value of items or boons....
Bottom line is this: The barriers to entry in PVP are far too high, which prevents NEW players from PVPing and also prevents PVE players from PVPing. This is what has lead to the poor state of PVP... What I have done above is identify the largest barriers to entry and discussed the best ways (IMO) to remove and reduce those barriers all while STILL having "gear progression" be a relevant thing for PVP.
I am happy to chat more about these, PM me if you wish or we can hop in discord and chat too!
Multiple maps and strategic objectives also change what builds and classes are viable, or wanted/needed. No need to wait on releasing or making them available. Domination is cool, but variety is the spice of life. (And why only one entry point on to the map from spawn?)
It is really awesome that attention is being paid to the problems that plague PvP and I wish all luck in solving them. I also want to say to all, keep the discussion going and don't give up. The game mechanics are great, but Grammy still doesn't want to PvP with Grampy. So sad.
"People who want to dip in can't, and won't be able to compete with the current state, or a fix of the current state."
THIS IS SPOT ON!!!
"You want balance? Strip all your gear/boons " - EXACTLY! Problem is I dont see them doing this.... So Ive been trying to specifically identify which areas are causing the biggest gaps. Thats what I wrote above.
A couple of things i think could help beginners and pvp in general:
1.
Set a minimum pvp entry requirement, nothing ridiculously high, but something that will grant that whoever queued got ready, something like 8k IL and 500 tenacity.
2.
-Change the way insignias work to help fight off bursts of damage
"When you are controlled you'll be healed for 5% your HP over 4 seconds", let's suppose that is 1000 every second, well the change would not decrease the total healed HP, instead do something like : Heal 1: 1500; Heal 2: 1250; Heal 3: 750 Heal 4: 500.
-Change Magistrate patience and consideration to 5%/2,5 of enemy life and capped by 10% of player life instead of power to help everyone even beginners wear down the opponent in the same proportion insignias heal in lengthy fights.
-Create a new insignia bonus that will reduce enemy incoming healing up to 20%, can only be applied once every second on the enemy, this because of super lengthy fights.
I realize this post is fairly repetitive compared to what I have already posted, and what many, many others have posted as well. The reason I revisited it is the huge expectation I had from a game bearing the Neverwinter name. I played Neverwinter Nights forever. It has been hands down the best PvP experience I have had in the DnD world outside of table top. I left the PC world a while back and re entered the console scene mainly for it's lower maintenance and ease of use with the children and the grandchildren. So I am playing Neverwinter from a PS4. The first month or two of PvP was a great experience for me.
Ok, enough of the self pity. Good to see the private and solo ques coming. I must give many thanks for them. For the future maps that have been hinted at - how about a good capture the flag variation where you bust into the enemy fort and grab tokens or gold from a chest. The amount each person can carry based off of a stat or a passive/encounter ability, or anything really that forces people to rethink how they build their character. The amount of dmg you do to the enemy gate can be done the same way, now you have two more things to worry about other than just bashing your opponent's skull (not to mention movement, gotta get the loot back to your base). A team wins after they capture a set amount of tokens/gold. Also, npc guards or guardian at the spawn points, no more hanging out taunting or waiting for your enemy or you might get spanked.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I would pay for access to a PvP arena where all gear, boons, etc were separated from pve.
The idea is designed to create "gear/stat equalization" in some form at lvl 70 PVP. Its almost universally agreed that gear gap is one of the #1 issues that plagues PVP. Its a massive barrier to entry for nearly all players as the "power" of a BIS PVP player is on average probably 400% more than an "average" player coming to PVP.
Now, things like tenacity being moved OFF gear and onto character sheet remove 1 barrier.
Things like -disabling consumable buffs (pots, food, etc) in PVP also removes another major barrier.
But considering the fact that your GEAR only actually accounts for about 1/3rd of your stats. When a new or "average" player enters PVP, they get completely dominated by some Best In Slot PVP player.
Some level of gear gap is to be desired! This is an MMORPG and gear progression is what its all about.
So rather than "remove" things from PVP. What if the system used a similar formula to the "bolster" system used to equalize the lower level PVP tiers?
Our idea - was once lvl 70, the Bolster/De-Bolster would work based on item level. So hypothetically, lets say 8k becomes the "standard".
So we have a 14k Item level player with 25k Power. ALL his stats would be adjusted as follows:
(8k Item Level * Character Item Level) * Stat.
So - 8k/14k*25k Power = 14,285 Power.
Or lets say a 6k Item Level player who has 8k Power goes into PVP=
8k/6k *8000 = 10,666 Power.
Same works for HP....
Thoughts?
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