You can Start with Simple things like Lowering the Stats and Damage of the Ascendant weapon Sets
We don't have any intentions of lowering the item level on the ascendant weapons, because the majority of a weapon's effectiveness comes from its base damage, you should not expect the difference between the weapons to be as extreme as 15-20%. We will be adjusting the set bonuses. We are aware of the balance concerns, especially in regard to the firesoul weapons and appreciate the feedback as we make adjustments.
If the only difference is the set bonus then I am cautiously optimistic. Gives players more choice which is always nice. And I think every one will agree that we don't want some super overpowered set bonus that is then nerfed later after we invest. Balance them before live and thanks for your time
You can Start with Simple things like Lowering the Stats and Damage of the Ascendant weapon Sets
We don't have any intentions of lowering the item level on the ascendant weapons, because the majority of a weapon's effectiveness comes from its base damage, you should not expect the difference between the weapons to be as extreme as 15-20%. We will be adjusting the set bonuses. We are aware of the balance concerns, especially in regard to the firesoul weapons and appreciate the feedback as we make adjustments.
How do you expect to give them the same base dmg and adjust the set bonuses to give no more than 10% damage that the Relic set give SOMETIMES.... -.-
Even if the Firesoul effectively gave 5% dmg buff occasionally.... many people would go for it instead of relic because of the lessened costs to get it...
Please don't gut the motivation of some people to get the relic set completed... this would be a dev self-nerf lol
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
I just wanted to chime in and let you all know that the design team is aware of your feedback. I mentioned during the time that Sea of Moving Ice was on preview that the intent was for relic weapons to be one of the strongest weapon options for some time—we will be ensuring that this is the case.
Module 11 has only just hit preview and we will continue to make adjustments before the update goes live. There's a balancing act regarding when things go to preview, often times certain features will hit preview before a tuning pass, and I'd like to apologize for the frustration this can cause.
That being said, I'd also like to clarify the place we see these new, ascended weapons vis-à-vis their relic counterparts. Many of you have pointed to twisted weapons being stronger than their elemental counterparts, this is the relationship we are aiming for when comparing ascended weapons with relic weapons. If you'll recall, twisted weapons and elemental weapons shared the same item level, with the set bonus setting twisted apart from its contemporaries.
It's possible that the ascended weapons set bonuses are too strong, so we'll be taking a look at their set bonuses, as well as how difficult the weapons are to obtain and making adjustments. Ascended weapons are designed to be a slightly inferior and more narrow option for those to whom the relic weapons remain out-of-reach or as a stepping stone towards reaching those weapons. Your continued feedback as we make our final adjustments is invaluable and we appreciate it.
Rest assured we will absolutely not be releasing ascended weapons in a state that obsoletes relic weapons. In truth, we will be aiming to ensure that relic weapons are still the optimal choice.
The idea behind making new artifact weapons for different set boni is awesome, same as them having the same stats as relic weapons. If you decide to make them to have a relationship between elemetal and twisted artifact weapons, please leave the stats and weapon damage as they are now in preview. Petrified Fey, Corrupted Aboleth, Faulty Mirage weapons might be damage and stat wise same as current Relic artifact weapons from SKT Content, but their set Bonus isnt. The only exception might be Defunct Lifeforged. BUT due to the Plaguetower quest bug, they still are not available on PTS. All the complains from now, are just from People , who like to conclude about the strenght about the weapon Bonus without actual testing it. The tooltip doesnt state how much defense is transfered, which defense is transfered and how much ICD the Bonus has. I like the idea to give Feedback about items or weapons, if you have actually tested them, but current Feedback is just Imagination of a few Players, sadly.
And about the new sets being easier to archieve. Well, I think at current Point, I am still the only Player who actually obtained 1 Piece of the weapons and i can say, you still Need to farm alot. I spend Close to 18hours of farming skirmish, heroic Encounters and dig site from new Zone to get restoration materials to restore the weapon (only the Mirage off Hand). (I am still far away from acutally buying the main Hand from the vendor and i doubt i will be able to without quest fix.) The grind behind the new weapons and SKT differs only in 1 simple Point: new weapons dont have the gated daily quest Profession reward, else weapon restoration would be at same Speed. Relic weapons might have been pricy to restore due to sellable Profession items, but on the other Hand we got immense ammount of free artifact weapon refinement Point items from playing SKT Content (I still got 15m relic weapon rp left). Only itchy Thing about both weapons is the mark upgrading. Legendary mark drop rate is low and to get Ild marks (gated behind 1.5 tries a day due to daily quests) you Need Close to a month worth dailies or just legendary keys without chest decline Option. New weapons don't require Special marks anymore, which is probably main reason for some negative Feedback. But even here, we Players asked for it. We didnt want to have the same grind of SKT with Special marks again. Thats why, Thank you, at this Point.
Hopefully Plaguetower quest gets soon fixed in PTS, so we are able to actually test the weapons for real Feedback about the set boni
After reading this thread last night I don't even want to play my main today. I am one of those who hated/hates/is hating fishing and before key change I was using dragon keys for that box. Since key change I've been fishing because I refuse to buy as many keys as I'd need to finish my relic set. I buy zen from Arc for convenience/fun items, not because I feel I have to. I am 7 marks from finishing, the levelling is done - just working on the marks. I'd probably have been done if it wasn't for the key change. Now I'm to understand all the work I put into the relic set is pretty much for naught?
End game in any game is supposed to be a reward, of sort, for those who grind all the easier stuff to get the best in game. The grind may be done in different ways - loot to sell, loot to upgrade what you have, loot as mats - but it's still, technically, a grind. This grind was a bit over the top - lanolin, moults, voninblood - but I evened my grind by farming some mats, farming some loot and selling it and trading some refinements. The voninblood and marks are really the only thing a person needs to get for themselves. The voninblood can be got in a number of ways so I don't think it's unattainable by anyone, just mix it up a bit so it's more palatable. It's what people do for end game stuff - repitition.
The marks are a different story, after the key change - before then, it too was doable.
I say again - now I'm to understand all the work I put into the relic set is pretty much for naught?
I'm actually LOVING how sinse mod 7 the devs are kinda arm twisting the anti-social Soloists into doing some USEFUL for other people... unlike before
I ***really*** take issue with this statement. In our guild (Order of the Raven), we've made a point to welcome people who are not power-gamers. These people have day jobs, families, kids, school at night, you name it. In other words, they are casual gamers who often don't have time to grind group content. They play to take a break from life and socialize with new online friends. That's not to say that we don't do group content, we do, but we know that people who either prefer to solo most of the time (or have to, due to life circumstances) need a place too.
They're not antisocial, and I resent the implication. We have people who are shy; we have people for whom English isn't their first language; we have many people who are not only new to the game but new to MMOs. We have people who play primarily with their significant others, and people who play alongside their kids (and who are understandably very careful of those with whom they interact).
I take this personally because I lead the guild, and I know better.
As for the issue of grinding SVA, I hasten to point out Mod 5: you had a **choice**: you could earn Linus by grinding Tiamat, or by turning in coffers or dragon treasures. Of those, you could either loot coffers or buy them on the AH, and you could buy dragon treasures in the bazaar or make them yourself in campaign tasks. This is what has been sorely missing.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I am torn on whether or not I want new weapons that are better than SKT weapons. I ran a lot of SVA pre-key nerf and still couldn't find enough superior marks. Now I run it every chance I get, even bought some dragon keys and have not had a single superior mark drop for me since the key change. I think I am up to 30 or so extra greater marks of each type (wth am I going to do with these?) . The issue for me is I am starting to feel like I will never get my weapon to legendary because the RNG is so bad. On top of that its always nothing but junk in those chests that you have to work so hard to get to. I do think the best items should come from the hardest content but the RNG is burning me out of the game. So if they will not make the loot better or change the keys back to being able to look first I say put better stuff in the next mod because players will not put up with this RNG to get the best gear.
Even if you already got the gear I understand how frustrated you are that new BIS weapons may be coming but as things are now after the key change a lot of players will burn out of this game trying to do SVA to get their marks and it's no fun being the best in a game where the population is low.
I'm actually LOVING how sinse mod 7 the devs are kinda arm twisting the anti-social Soloists into doing some USEFUL for other people... unlike before
I ***really*** take issue with this statement. In our guild (Order of the Raven), we've made a point to welcome people who are not power-gamers. These people have day jobs, families, kids, school at night, you name it. In other words, they are casual gamers who often don't have time to grind group content. They play to take a break from life and socialize with new online friends. That's not to say that we don't do group content, we do, but we know that people who either prefer to solo most of the time (or have to, due to life circumstances) need a place too.
They're not antisocial, and I resent the implication. We have people who are shy; we have people for whom English isn't their first language; we have many people who are not only new to the game but new to MMOs. We have people who play primarily with their significant others, and people who play alongside their kids (and who are understandably very careful of those with whom they interact).
I take this personally because I lead the guild, and I know better.
As for the issue of grinding SVA, I hasten to point out Mod 5: you had a **choice**: you could earn Linus by grinding Tiamat, or by turning in coffers or dragon treasures. Of those, you could either loot coffers or buy them on the AH, and you could buy dragon treasures in the bazaar or make them yourself in campaign tasks. This is what has been sorely missing.
My guild has similar people in it... I'm the ONLY hardcore player in my guild... with this in mind I have dedicated a lot of time to planning out simplified paths of progressions and departments of of the guild to provide resources to those who genuinely can not play the game much... (whether people help with doing that or not is another story)... so.. when i say anti-social I'm not talking about those who can't play much.. but those who refuse to interact with others any more than they interact with a NPC Companion. Together... everything is doable in game... maybe it takes longer.. but but it's doable.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
I see a lot of complains because of these Firesoul weapons but i will tell you my story:
I'm playing NW since Closed Beta and i had (and have) a lot of fun. With M6 they brought artifact weapon sets and i got them within no time. After that M7 has Stronghold weapons and i never managed to get even one. M8 and twisted weapons arrived but a lot of months i don't cared about them. M9 came close and this was the time i changed to twisted weapons, most of my toons use them since today and my main too. M10 was a grind even for the campaign, M10.5 is untouched since now.
We're only three people in my whole guild who ever completed FBI, only one is doing Svardborg for relic weapons (I never tried Svadborg and not planing doing so). What does that mean? Are we low casual gamers? No, we're not. For us fun is not having the highest equipment of all times, so grinding can't be the middle of our "ingame life". And we never wanted to skip moduls but we have to, cause it's not fun. For me fishing and treasure hunting was great, loved it. Most of the other guild folks declined that so i never fulfilled the campaign cause doing it all alone is.. Yeah, it's boring.
What i want to say is that we need stuff we could enjoy (And man, the first three chapters of the new story really are! I had to keep off myself playing it on preview cause i want the german version but.. Must.. Resist..!). And if there are new weapons on par with relic weapons i'm happy, i really am! Cause this means my guild won't be that distant to that so called 'elitism' and is able to play with all other people on the server even if they not grinded the hamster out of themself.
I don't need the best stuff, my guild don't need it. We just need fun and having so, i'm pleased as there leader. So thank you for this Firesoul weapons, it means a lot to us.
@asterdahl - Just make the Relic weapons as easy to upgrade as the new ones. This is the main concern here, it's that the difficulty in upgrading them. We already went through pain and suffering to restore them, we shouldn't have to suffer to upgrade them (even though there are some that would say we suffer from the amount of RP, or whatever).
I personally don't get why SKT grinding makes people better humans, but I would agree it's a bad idea to invalidate the Weapon Sets for several reasons. The system is however not ALT friendly at all. Account Marks is the only thing it has going for itself, but the restoration process and corresponding tasks are just too painful.
I actually like introducing Relics as BIS in Mod 10 and following up with slightly inferior but noticeably easier to get Weapons Sets a Mod later. It enables players to keep pace with other toons. The best thing is that you can skip the progression on anyone that already owns Relics, which frees up time and resources for other chars.
Don't forget that there are even lots of people that will never even see Relic Weapons on their mains. Be it because they are not active enough or choose to play many toons instead of one, they are effectively excluded from progression. That's bad business. With earlier Weapon Sets you might not have been able to get them to orange, but you at least could still participate. If you can't restore your weapons in SKT or don't have a toon that can reliable run Svardborg, then you're simply <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and the whole mod takes place without you.
pc players are a minority, "elites" on pc are, again, a minority of these pc players...
i wonder how much these minorities of minorities will influence the game of xbox and ps4-players who are but starting the relic weapons grind...
i wonder how much feelings that look back and defending a higher status (elitism! :-) ) acquired through M10/10.5 harsh grind will determine what the majorities and all new players (play play play, it's a game, yes?) find in neverwinter...
play is opposed to "elitism" (which locks us in restriction) play seeks open doors, open phantasy, new colors of all kinds play feels what is now and is full of expectation... of of of... :-))
pc players are a minority, "elites" on pc are, again, a minority of these pc players...
i wonder how much these minorities of minorities will influence the game of xbox and ps4-players who are but starting the relic weapons grind...
i wonder how much feelings that look back and defending a higher status (elitism! :-) ) acquired through M10/10.5 harsh grind will determine what the majorities and all new players (play play play, it's a game, yes?) find in neverwinter...
play is opposed to "elitism" (which locks us in restriction) play seeks open doors, open phantasy, new colors of all kinds play feels what is now and is full of expectation... of of of... :-))
Mod 10/10.5 was pretty much made entirely to cater to the players who you're labeling elitist.
0
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
pc players are a minority, "elites" on pc are, again, a minority of these pc players...
i wonder how much these minorities of minorities will influence the game of xbox and ps4-players who are but starting the relic weapons grind...
i wonder how much feelings that look back and defending a higher status (elitism! :-) ) acquired through M10/10.5 harsh grind will determine what the majorities and all new players (play play play, it's a game, yes?) find in neverwinter...
play is opposed to "elitism" (which locks us in restriction) play seeks open doors, open phantasy, new colors of all kinds play feels what is now and is full of expectation... of of of... :-))
The minority that influence the game (so badly) is the developer "team", you should address your posts there. The majority of the PC community provides feedback about the game from the very beginning, despite the fact that 95% of all this feedback was and is ignored, leading to the total demise of NW to the current mess we are facing. We, the PC players, are TANKING all the bad decisions so you can come AFTERWARDS and "enjoy" the game after we lived through all the "bugs", deliberate or not, and the sheer incompetence of the game design.
2
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
About grinding in general.
I have 14 alts. I used to play the majority of them, but now I only play a single one. Why? Well, I like having good gear, but the time required to have more than one character in BiS (or close to it) is just excessive.
Nobody really enjoys grinding - it is perceived as a "necessary evil", as long as it is not taken to far - people really don't enjoy being forced to grind content they hate, just to be able to do content they like.
Now - if the new weapons in M11 can be obtained with a more reasonable effort, I might actually get them for some of my alts, and not continuing focusing just on my main. So, I am happy with what I have heard so far in that respect.
However, I am actually not sure if I will get the new weapons for my main - my primary is a DC, and I am currently using the Drowned set there. As a DC, the damage I generate is not my priority, but staying alive is important to me, and that became harder after regeneration in combat was removed.
Hoping for improvements...
3
lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
When the plague tower will be fixed? Tried it today and it still bugged
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
There are a lot of complaints, but not many proposed solutions, other than possibly not to provide a set bonus or not allow the sets altogether, neither of which seems realistic. I think most people can agree that the current wording of Firesoul "appears" to outperform current relic weapon sets. The datamined language for the other proposed sets may give a good starting point for alternate implementation. Most of those appear to provide a much smaller DPS boost, which would be in line with being inferior to current relic weapon sets, except for possibly the acquisition cost.
"Fey When you damage an enemy or heal an ally, there is a chance you become Fey-Touched, which restores 10% of your AP, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Outgoing Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only be Fey-Touched once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Sounds like it was made for a DC/Healadin. 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Illusion When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you become a Master of Illusion for 10 seconds! As a Master of Illusion will summon three illusions of yourself to fight for you, though results may vary. A Master of Illusion also does 3% more damage, which increases by 10% against enemies with Shields and Temp HP. You can only be a Master of Illusion once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option for people fighting Tanks, likely a pvp focus, though addressing targets with high Deflect is not included. Roughly a 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Aberrant When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you will become a Far-Influenced, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 4% and grants you a random buff for 10 seconds. Lifestealer: Increases your Lifesteal by 2500. Tainted Attack: Enemies you attack will take additional damage over time. Impeding Death: Enemies you attack will explode on death, doing damage to other foes. You can only be Far-Influenced once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option of a more general nature favoring solo/PVE play. Roughly a 4% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs, though that may depend on the buff provided and the damage from a corpse explosion (I'm looking forward to seeing the animations for this).
How to keep Firesoul in line with these? It looks like there needs to be a place for tanks. I would propose the wording for the set bonus should read:
"Firesoul When you damage an enemy or take damage from an enemy, there is a chance you become Fortified, which increases your defense by 5%, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Incoming Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only become Fortified once every 30 seconds."
This prevents defense/power stacking causing the damage bonus from outperforming current Relic Weapons, though the Relic Weapon activation proc is something players still need incorporate into their play style to avoid triggering the wrong proc. The base weapon damage would still mean that the new weapon set would outperform Twisted Weapons.
For comparison, the current Relic Weapon set Overcharge reads:
"If you dodge, block, sprint or shadow slip, you gain Overcharge: Defense, which decreases your Incoming Damage by 10% and increases your Run Speed by 15% for 10 seconds. If you use an Encounter power, you gain Overcharge: Attack, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 10% and heals you 15% of your health over 10 seconds. You can only activate an Overcharge power once every 30 seconds."
Mod 10/10.5 was pretty much made entirely to cater to the players who you're labeling elitist.
yes, likely so... and let me try to explain this a little bit better: i wouldn't like to label a player elitist i'd prefer to flag "elitism", any player (including myself) can display in (parts of) his/her attitude as something that makes our atmosphere here "less playful"
thus i always try to call myself out to "really play", it's a kind of effort too and enjoy most of all playing together
0
lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
There are a lot of complaints, but not many proposed solutions, other than possibly not to provide a set bonus or not allow the sets altogether, neither of which seems realistic. I think most people can agree that the current wording of Firesoul "appears" to outperform current relic weapon sets. The datamined language for the other proposed sets may give a good starting point for alternate implementation. Most of those appear to provide a much smaller DPS boost, which would be in line with being inferior to current relic weapon sets, except for possibly the acquisition cost.
"Fey When you damage an enemy or heal an ally, there is a chance you become Fey-Touched, which restores 10% of your AP, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Outgoing Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only be Fey-Touched once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Sounds like it was made for a DC/Healadin. 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Illusion When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you become a Master of Illusion for 10 seconds! As a Master of Illusion will summon three illusions of yourself to fight for you, though results may vary. A Master of Illusion also does 3% more damage, which increases by 10% against enemies with Shields and Temp HP. You can only be a Master of Illusion once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option for people fighting Tanks, likely a pvp focus, though addressing targets with high Deflect is not included. Roughly a 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Aberrant When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you will become a Far-Influenced, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 4% and grants you a random buff for 10 seconds. Lifestealer: Increases your Lifesteal by 2500. Tainted Attack: Enemies you attack will take additional damage over time. Impeding Death: Enemies you attack will explode on death, doing damage to other foes. You can only be Far-Influenced once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option of a more general nature favoring solo/PVE play. Roughly a 4% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs, though that may depend on the buff provided and the damage from a corpse explosion (I'm looking forward to seeing the animations for this).
How to keep Firesoul in line with these? It looks like there needs to be a place for tanks. I would propose the wording for the set bonus should read:
"Firesoul When you damage an enemy or take damage from an enemy, there is a chance you become Fortified, which increases your defense by 5%, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Incoming Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only become Fortified once every 30 seconds."
This prevents defense/power stacking causing the damage bonus from outperforming current Relic Weapons, though the Relic Weapon activation proc is something players still need incorporate into their play style to avoid triggering the wrong proc. The base weapon damage would still mean that the new weapon set would outperform Twisted Weapons.
For comparison, the current Relic Weapon set Overcharge reads:
"If you dodge, block, sprint or shadow slip, you gain Overcharge: Defense, which decreases your Incoming Damage by 10% and increases your Run Speed by 15% for 10 seconds. If you use an Encounter power, you gain Overcharge: Attack, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 10% and heals you 15% of your health over 10 seconds. You can only activate an Overcharge power once every 30 seconds."
Totally agree.
Best solution [or maybe the only solution?] given about the firesoul weapon. Anyway, if those weapon go live withou changes, many ppl will cry and say "buuuh cryptic, I will never play again nw... I grinded and bleeded for those relic weapons, spent millions on ad and now you do this? buuuh for you", but everyone knew [or at least had any suspects] that relic weapons wouldn't be the ONLY BIS for everyone and we would have more options sooner or later. And IMO, those new weapons are nice, worth the grind to get all of them and have some option.
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
1
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
The minority that influence the game (so badly) is the developer "team", you should address your posts there. The majority of the PC community provides feedback about the game from the very beginning, despite the fact that 95% of all this feedback was and is ignored, leading to the total demise of NW to the current mess we are facing. We, the PC players, are TANKING all the bad decisions so you can come AFTERWARDS and "enjoy" the game after we lived through all the "bugs", deliberate or not, and the sheer incompetence of the game design.
you know, i'm pc player myself, since beta and of course agree that the developer team influences this game most (and very likely some business interests behind it do so too)
apart from this, i also agree that we have been going through highs and lows in neverwinter but it never felt totally dramatic to me ("it's a game!")
sometimes it surprises me, i'm still here -- it was some years what keeps me in game each time "i'm about to pause" is other players i meet literally "last moment" and it can be real adventure
@asterdahl - Just make the Relic weapons as easy to upgrade as the new ones. This is the main concern here, it's that the difficulty in upgrading them. We already went through pain and suffering to restore them, we shouldn't have to suffer to upgrade them (even though there are some that would say we suffer from the amount of RP, or whatever).
There are a lot of complaints, but not many proposed solutions, other than possibly not to provide a set bonus or not allow the sets altogether, neither of which seems realistic. I think most people can agree that the current wording of Firesoul "appears" to outperform current relic weapon sets. The datamined language for the other proposed sets may give a good starting point for alternate implementation. Most of those appear to provide a much smaller DPS boost, which would be in line with being inferior to current relic weapon sets, except for possibly the acquisition cost.
"Fey When you damage an enemy or heal an ally, there is a chance you become Fey-Touched, which restores 10% of your AP, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Outgoing Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only be Fey-Touched once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Sounds like it was made for a DC/Healadin. 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Illusion When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you become a Master of Illusion for 10 seconds! As a Master of Illusion will summon three illusions of yourself to fight for you, though results may vary. A Master of Illusion also does 3% more damage, which increases by 10% against enemies with Shields and Temp HP. You can only be a Master of Illusion once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option for people fighting Tanks, likely a pvp focus, though addressing targets with high Deflect is not included. Roughly a 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Aberrant When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you will become a Far-Influenced, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 4% and grants you a random buff for 10 seconds. Lifestealer: Increases your Lifesteal by 2500. Tainted Attack: Enemies you attack will take additional damage over time. Impeding Death: Enemies you attack will explode on death, doing damage to other foes. You can only be Far-Influenced once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option of a more general nature favoring solo/PVE play. Roughly a 4% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs, though that may depend on the buff provided and the damage from a corpse explosion (I'm looking forward to seeing the animations for this).
How to keep Firesoul in line with these? It looks like there needs to be a place for tanks. I would propose the wording for the set bonus should read:
"Firesoul When you damage an enemy or take damage from an enemy, there is a chance you become Fortified, which increases your defense by 5%, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Incoming Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only become Fortified once every 30 seconds."
This prevents defense/power stacking causing the damage bonus from outperforming current Relic Weapons, though the Relic Weapon activation proc is something players still need incorporate into their play style to avoid triggering the wrong proc. The base weapon damage would still mean that the new weapon set would outperform Twisted Weapons.
For comparison, the current Relic Weapon set Overcharge reads:
"If you dodge, block, sprint or shadow slip, you gain Overcharge: Defense, which decreases your Incoming Damage by 10% and increases your Run Speed by 15% for 10 seconds. If you use an Encounter power, you gain Overcharge: Attack, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 10% and heals you 15% of your health over 10 seconds. You can only activate an Overcharge power once every 30 seconds."
Totally agree.
Best solution [or maybe the only solution?] given about the firesoul weapon. Anyway, if those weapon go live withou changes, many ppl will cry and say "buuuh cryptic, I will never play again nw... I grinded and bleeded for those relic weapons, spent millions on ad and now you do this? buuuh for you", but everyone knew [or at least had any suspects] that relic weapons wouldn't be the ONLY BIS for everyone and we would have more options sooner or later. And IMO, those new weapons are nice, worth the grind to get all of them and have some option.
If Firesoul goes live as is... WHO will it still be best in Slot for? And please stop with this stupid it was bound to not be BiS argument... it's only been HALF A MOD... no one should have to loose 10's of millions of ad and countless hours for half a mods enjoyment ( I might get 2 months use out of my almost legendary weapons before I should replace them).. unless (maybe) they invest in something that's CLEARLY not working as intended.... (some recently nerfed pets, items, and builds come to mind.).
Relic gives basically a 3% (10% for 10 secs every 30 secs) dmg buff IF you stand still and don't accidently proc the defensive Overcharge Power. That;s VERY little room to give any kind of alternate Set Bonus that won't make the other set BiS.....
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
One of the problems with the current Firesoul wording is that we don't know much about its mechanics because its description is so poorly worded. It may have an ICD of 30 secs like the other weapon sets, but it could be substantially longer (if the ICD was 2-mins for example, I'd have a problem justifying its use, maybe even just swapping it in for a long boss fight, but I hate the thought of carrying 2 more items just for a limited scenario). The duration of the buff is undefined and could be 10 secs like the other weapon sets, but it could be substantially shorter. As others have indicated it's also unclear how bonding/pets/feats interact with its buff. Preview testing may be able to determine the actual metrics, which will give a better idea as to its actual value in relation to Relic Weapons. However, theorycrafting can quickly develop scenarios as to how the current wording could be easily abused with the right gear, particularly for GFs, GWFs, and OPs or other classes who stack power and defense, made even more extreme with guild boons. A flat Outgoing Damage bonus eliminates some of the possible abuses from stacking that led to the ITF nerf.
To keep it inferior to Relics, the bonus needs to be less than 10% outgoing damage bonus for 10 secs every 30 secs, which actually does leave some room for implementation. The 3%-4% for 10 secs every 30 secs on the other sets would take this into consideration along with the quirky proc activation on Relic Weapons that can be frustrating.
If it went live as most people are interpreting it, I would certainly trade in my Legendary Relic set for it, which I think is the scenario that everyone wants to avoid. If tweaked down to 3-4% Outgoing Damage instead, I'd have to think about it, but would likely pass. A 10% DPS boost for 10 secs every 30 secs that I sort of control (assuming I don't hit Shift and disable the sprint double tap option) is worth more to me than a 3-4% DPS boost for 10 secs every 30 secs (this is assuming that its ICD matches the other sets) that I have no control over. Others may disagree, and for them it would deflate the efforts they made to get their relic weapons. However, if the difference is too close, people may never take the step of later getting their Relic Weapons as Mod 11 gear may be "good enough" particularly depending on the difficulty in acquiring, which is also subject to change prior to release on live. For me, I've given up even considering doing the Relic Weapon grind again on alts, 200+ mSVA runs for a single toon was enough.
Comments
How do you expect to give them the same base dmg and adjust the set bonuses to give no more than 10% damage that the Relic set give SOMETIMES.... -.-
Even if the Firesoul effectively gave 5% dmg buff occasionally.... many people would go for it instead of relic because of the lessened costs to get it...
Please don't gut the motivation of some people to get the relic set completed... this would be a dev self-nerf lol
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
Petrified Fey, Corrupted Aboleth, Faulty Mirage weapons might be damage and stat wise same as current Relic artifact weapons from SKT Content, but their set Bonus isnt. The only exception might be Defunct Lifeforged.
BUT due to the Plaguetower quest bug, they still are not available on PTS.
All the complains from now, are just from People , who like to conclude about the strenght about the weapon Bonus without actual testing it. The tooltip doesnt state how much defense is transfered, which defense is transfered and how much ICD the Bonus has.
I like the idea to give Feedback about items or weapons, if you have actually tested them, but current Feedback is just Imagination of a few Players, sadly.
And about the new sets being easier to archieve.
Well, I think at current Point, I am still the only Player who actually obtained 1 Piece of the weapons and i can say, you still Need to farm alot. I spend Close to 18hours of farming skirmish, heroic Encounters and dig site from new Zone to get restoration materials to restore the weapon (only the Mirage off Hand).
(I am still far away from acutally buying the main Hand from the vendor and i doubt i will be able to without quest fix.)
The grind behind the new weapons and SKT differs only in 1 simple Point: new weapons dont have the gated daily quest Profession reward, else weapon restoration would be at same Speed.
Relic weapons might have been pricy to restore due to sellable Profession items, but on the other Hand we got immense ammount of free artifact weapon refinement Point items from playing SKT Content (I still got 15m relic weapon rp left).
Only itchy Thing about both weapons is the mark upgrading. Legendary mark drop rate is low and to get Ild marks (gated behind 1.5 tries a day due to daily quests) you Need Close to a month worth dailies or just legendary keys without chest decline Option.
New weapons don't require Special marks anymore, which is probably main reason for some negative Feedback.
But even here, we Players asked for it. We didnt want to have the same grind of SKT with Special marks again.
Thats why, Thank you, at this Point.
Hopefully Plaguetower quest gets soon fixed in PTS, so we are able to actually test the weapons for real Feedback about the set boni
End game in any game is supposed to be a reward, of sort, for those who grind all the easier stuff to get the best in game. The grind may be done in different ways - loot to sell, loot to upgrade what you have, loot as mats - but it's still, technically, a grind. This grind was a bit over the top - lanolin, moults, voninblood - but I evened my grind by farming some mats, farming some loot and selling it and trading some refinements. The voninblood and marks are really the only thing a person needs to get for themselves. The voninblood can be got in a number of ways so I don't think it's unattainable by anyone, just mix it up a bit so it's more palatable. It's what people do for end game stuff - repitition.
The marks are a different story, after the key change - before then, it too was doable.
I say again - now I'm to understand all the work I put into the relic set is pretty much for naught?
They're not antisocial, and I resent the implication. We have people who are shy; we have people for whom English isn't their first language; we have many people who are not only new to the game but new to MMOs. We have people who play primarily with their significant others, and people who play alongside their kids (and who are understandably very careful of those with whom they interact).
I take this personally because I lead the guild, and I know better.
As for the issue of grinding SVA, I hasten to point out Mod 5: you had a **choice**: you could earn Linus by grinding Tiamat, or by turning in coffers or dragon treasures. Of those, you could either loot coffers or buy them on the AH, and you could buy dragon treasures in the bazaar or make them yourself in campaign tasks. This is what has been sorely missing.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Even if you already got the gear I understand how frustrated you are that new BIS weapons may be coming but as things are now after the key change a lot of players will burn out of this game trying to do SVA to get their marks and it's no fun being the best in a game where the population is low.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
I personally don't get why SKT grinding makes people better humans, but I would agree it's a bad idea to invalidate the Weapon Sets for several reasons. The system is however not ALT friendly at all. Account Marks is the only thing it has going for itself, but the restoration process and corresponding tasks are just too painful.
I actually like introducing Relics as BIS in Mod 10 and following up with slightly inferior but noticeably easier to get Weapons Sets a Mod later. It enables players to keep pace with other toons. The best thing is that you can skip the progression on anyone that already owns Relics, which frees up time and resources for other chars.
Don't forget that there are even lots of people that will never even see Relic Weapons on their mains. Be it because they are not active enough or choose to play many toons instead of one, they are effectively excluded from progression. That's bad business. With earlier Weapon Sets you might not have been able to get them to orange, but you at least could still participate. If you can't restore your weapons in SKT or don't have a toon that can reliable run Svardborg, then you're simply <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and the whole mod takes place without you.
"elites" on pc are, again, a minority of these pc players...
i wonder how much these minorities of minorities will influence the game of xbox and ps4-players
who are but starting the relic weapons grind...
i wonder how much feelings that look back
and defending a higher status (elitism! :-) )
acquired through M10/10.5 harsh grind will determine
what the majorities and all new players (play play play, it's a game, yes?) find in neverwinter...
play is opposed to "elitism" (which locks us in restriction)
play seeks open doors, open phantasy, new colors of
all kinds
play feels what is now
and is full of expectation... of of of...
:-))
I have 14 alts. I used to play the majority of them, but now I only play a single one. Why? Well, I like having good gear, but the time required to have more than one character in BiS (or close to it) is just excessive.
Nobody really enjoys grinding - it is perceived as a "necessary evil", as long as it is not taken to far - people really don't enjoy being forced to grind content they hate, just to be able to do content they like.
Now - if the new weapons in M11 can be obtained with a more reasonable effort, I might actually get them for some of my alts, and not continuing focusing just on my main. So, I am happy with what I have heard so far in that respect.
However, I am actually not sure if I will get the new weapons for my main - my primary is a DC, and I am currently using the Drowned set there. As a DC, the damage I generate is not my priority, but staying alive is important to me, and that became harder after regeneration in combat was removed.
"Fey
When you damage an enemy or heal an ally, there is a chance you become Fey-Touched, which restores 10% of your AP, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Outgoing Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only be Fey-Touched once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Sounds like it was made for a DC/Healadin. 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Illusion
When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you become a Master of Illusion for 10 seconds! As a Master of Illusion will summon three illusions of yourself to fight for you, though results may vary. A Master of Illusion also does 3% more damage, which increases by 10% against enemies with Shields and Temp HP. You can only be a Master of Illusion once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option for people fighting Tanks, likely a pvp focus, though addressing targets with high Deflect is not included. Roughly a 3% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs.
"Aberrant
When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you will become a Far-Influenced, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 4% and grants you a random buff for 10 seconds. Lifestealer: Increases your Lifesteal by 2500. Tainted Attack: Enemies you attack will take additional damage over time. Impeding Death: Enemies you attack will explode on death, doing damage to other foes. You can only be Far-Influenced once every 30 seconds."
Thoughts: Looks like a DPS option of a more general nature favoring solo/PVE play. Roughly a 4% DPS boost 10 secs/30 secs, though that may depend on the buff provided and the damage from a corpse explosion (I'm looking forward to seeing the animations for this).
How to keep Firesoul in line with these? It looks like there needs to be a place for tanks. I would propose the wording for the set bonus should read:
"Firesoul
When you damage an enemy or take damage from an enemy, there is a chance you become Fortified, which increases your defense by 5%, as well as increases your Outgoing Damage by 3% and your Incoming Healing by 6% for 10 seconds. You can only become Fortified once every 30 seconds."
This prevents defense/power stacking causing the damage bonus from outperforming current Relic Weapons, though the Relic Weapon activation proc is something players still need incorporate into their play style to avoid triggering the wrong proc. The base weapon damage would still mean that the new weapon set would outperform Twisted Weapons.
For comparison, the current Relic Weapon set Overcharge reads:
"If you dodge, block, sprint or shadow slip, you gain Overcharge: Defense, which decreases your Incoming Damage by 10% and increases your Run Speed by 15% for 10 seconds.
If you use an Encounter power, you gain Overcharge: Attack, which increases your Outgoing Damage by 10% and heals you 15% of your health over 10 seconds.
You can only activate an Overcharge power once every 30 seconds."
and let me try to explain this a little bit better: i wouldn't like to label a player elitist
i'd prefer to flag "elitism", any player (including myself) can display in (parts of) his/her attitude
as something that makes our atmosphere here "less playful"
thus i always try to call myself out to "really play", it's a kind of effort too
and enjoy most of all playing together
Best solution [or maybe the only solution?] given about the firesoul weapon. Anyway, if those weapon go live withou changes, many ppl will cry and say "buuuh cryptic, I will never play again nw... I grinded and bleeded for those relic weapons, spent millions on ad and now you do this? buuuh for you", but everyone knew [or at least had any suspects] that relic weapons wouldn't be the ONLY BIS for everyone and we would have more options sooner or later. And IMO, those new weapons are nice, worth the grind to get all of them and have some option.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
and of course agree that the developer team influences this game most
(and very likely some business interests behind it do so too)
apart from this, i also agree that we have been going through highs and lows in neverwinter
but it never felt totally dramatic to me ("it's a game!")
sometimes it surprises me, i'm still here -- it was some years
what keeps me in game each time "i'm about to pause" is other players i meet literally "last moment"
and it can be real adventure
If Firesoul goes live as is... WHO will it still be best in Slot for? And please stop with this stupid it was bound to not be BiS argument... it's only been HALF A MOD... no one should have to loose 10's of millions of ad and countless hours for half a mods enjoyment ( I might get 2 months use out of my almost legendary weapons before I should replace them).. unless (maybe) they invest in something that's CLEARLY not working as intended.... (some recently nerfed pets, items, and builds come to mind.).
Relic gives basically a 3% (10% for 10 secs every 30 secs) dmg buff IF you stand still and don't accidently proc the defensive Overcharge Power. That;s VERY little room to give any kind of alternate Set Bonus that won't make the other set BiS.....
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
To keep it inferior to Relics, the bonus needs to be less than 10% outgoing damage bonus for 10 secs every 30 secs, which actually does leave some room for implementation. The 3%-4% for 10 secs every 30 secs on the other sets would take this into consideration along with the quirky proc activation on Relic Weapons that can be frustrating.
If it went live as most people are interpreting it, I would certainly trade in my Legendary Relic set for it, which I think is the scenario that everyone wants to avoid. If tweaked down to 3-4% Outgoing Damage instead, I'd have to think about it, but would likely pass. A 10% DPS boost for 10 secs every 30 secs that I sort of control (assuming I don't hit Shift and disable the sprint double tap option) is worth more to me than a 3-4% DPS boost for 10 secs every 30 secs (this is assuming that its ICD matches the other sets) that I have no control over. Others may disagree, and for them it would deflate the efforts they made to get their relic weapons. However, if the difference is too close, people may never take the step of later getting their Relic Weapons as Mod 11 gear may be "good enough" particularly depending on the difficulty in acquiring, which is also subject to change prior to release on live. For me, I've given up even considering doing the Relic Weapon grind again on alts, 200+ mSVA runs for a single toon was enough.