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Update on the Dungeon Key Change

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  • bitt3rnightmar3bitt3rnightmar3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 788 Arc User



    What good is first change without the second part?! I think you all were pretty clear on that, and you are right!

    We hear you. I hear you. We are going to fix this.

    I will hold you guys to this. I want this game to be better because I really like the gameplay, community and DnD vibe.

    I will ask you for one thing. Please for the love of Tymora and all of her holiness do not force your players to do any more Heroic Encounters. I want to do dungeons and instance content to get the things that I need. Allow doing HEs to be optional not forced for progression like the are right now. That includes Stronghold content. Let me get some awesome Influence and stronghold Stuff by doing challenging dungeons that will help the required influence for SH to progress while making it rewarding for us. Let me trade my Dungeon shards for Heroic shards or Conqueror's Shards or trade shards 1:1 for a different kind? We work for our communities by donating to our strongholds and build them up for our friends. As it is right now it's a pea drop of water on a forest fire with the influence reward we get from doing dungeons from our boon structures. Strongholds and alliances help the community. Please help us help each other too.

    We're all tired of doing the same thing every day. Give us the option to get a reward from dungeons instead of just Heroic encounters.

    And please- don't lock armor gear behind a heroic encounter that you can't get anywhere else. (I'm looking at those relic boots- Maybe look at drop rate for support roles in heroic encounters).


    I'm glad to hear you're working on things and taking us seriously. There isn't anything I've wanted from this game in terms of gear since mod 8 and nothing at all that I want from mod 10 or 10B. I'm watching closely to see what comes of it.

    These people have good suggestions. I hope you continue to listen to feedback.

    Consider this a tentative- THANK YOU.

    Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
    --
    I'll never retrace my steps.

    Some of my best friends are Imaginary.


  • andorrabellandorrabell Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 437 Arc User

    As you may have heard, we recently announced, and put up on Preview, a new system for dungeon keys wherein viewing rewards would no longer be an option without using the key. Then you spoke to us: loudly, clearly and - amazingly so and in many ways - that this breaks something in the game that you have relied upon. A fail safe for checking to see if you are going to use your keys on loot - at least loot that is a return on investment on the key and time in the dungeon. Our forward looking goal has always been to be able to create better rewards tables in those (and other) chests, but we needed to secure the dungeon chest system first. We totally put the cart before the horse here. We’re all sorry for the heartache such a half move has caused.

    What good is first change without the second part?! I think you all were pretty clear on that, and you are right! When I’m reading on the forums that Aulduron opened 1,000 chests and used only a dozen keys on rewards he liked, this made me get my team really looking into the bigger issue here. The Rewards. Not just the rewards but the percentage chances of getting them.

    We hear you. I hear you. We are going to fix this.

    So, here’s what we are going to do. We are pulling back the dungeon key change for our upcoming update, Sea of Moving Ice, and scheduling time to evaluate and rebuild the rewards for the dungeon chests. This change will still happen, but when it does it will be with better rewards and a much better chance of actually getting the chase loot. Once the change is in, the plan is to schedule updates to these rewards each major expansion so that there is reason to revisit the dungeons.

    With that in mind, we would love to hear from you. What do you want to see in your Dungeon chests? I’m serious about this. Your feedback is important. Reply in this post!

    Regards,
    Thomas “Mimic King” Foss

    Thank you. Good on ya. Applause.
  • rapo973rapo973 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    As you may have heard, we recently announced, and put up on Preview, a new system for dungeon keys wherein viewing rewards would no longer be an option without using the key. Then you spoke to us: loudly, clearly and - amazingly so and in many ways - that this breaks something in the game that you have relied upon. A fail safe for checking to see if you are going to use your keys on loot - at least loot that is a return on investment on the key and time in the dungeon. Our forward looking goal has always been to be able to create better rewards tables in those (and other) chests, but we needed to secure the dungeon chest system first. We totally put the cart before the horse here. We’re all sorry for the heartache such a half move has caused.

    What good is first change without the second part?! I think you all were pretty clear on that, and you are right! When I’m reading on the forums that Aulduron opened 1,000 chests and used only a dozen keys on rewards he liked, this made me get my team really looking into the bigger issue here. The Rewards. Not just the rewards but the percentage chances of getting them.

    We hear you. I hear you. We are going to fix this.

    Sounds good.
    Indeed the value for money of this game is not the best.


    So, here’s what we are going to do. We are pulling back the dungeon key change for our upcoming update, Sea of Moving Ice, and scheduling time to evaluate and rebuild the rewards for the dungeon chests. This change will still happen, but when it does it will be with better rewards and a much better chance of actually getting the chase loot. Once the change is in, the plan is to schedule updates to these rewards each major expansion so that there is reason to revisit the dungeons.

    With that in mind, we would love to hear from you. What do you want to see in your Dungeon chests? I’m serious about this. Your feedback is important. Reply in this post!

    Regards,
    Thomas “Mimic King” Foss

    This is a much more reasonable approach: please next time don't unleash the revolution again.
    What do I want to see in your Dungeon chests? The feeling that I've made a progress, that I haven't wasted my time.
    I've some unstructured ideas at the moment.
    My two cents: I would make a better use of the professions to make them valuable again. The chest can drop always "ingredients", while the professions mix and match the ingredients to provide the items that the player really wants.To some extent we already had such mechanism back in mode 3 when we used to run MC/VT to find the pieces to produce the main weapon with the professions. I would include the companion items.
    The chests opened with zen keys always drop rare/valuable ingredients with a higher chance and rarely an equipment.
    Ingredients should be located everywhere: the same ingredient can be found in a dungeon/skirmish/HE so we're not forced to run the same content over and over to find what we need.
    At the end the ingredients can be sold (BoE), while the items from profession shoud be BoA. Some ingredients of course will have a higher value than others, but alone they are nothing because they are not equipment or gear set.
    In such a mechanism I would define a limit to the RNG: if something is not drop, then after X tries you get it (there are statistical methods to find X). This helps to have the feeling that you progress a bit everytime you complete a content. This mechanism also helps to keep the value of an ingredient limited to some extent.
    I also agree that a cohalescent would be nice to have occasionally. :p
    Post edited by rapo973 on

    Oltreverso guild leader
    Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
  • vikoonvikoon Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    Not to be a downer, but what exactly are people thanking the devs for? They haven't given us anything yet, the only thing that they have done is make a promise. Thanking them for not rolling back a ridiculous change in the first place is beyond sad. They are only doing this because of the exodus of people that are tired of feeling like we are being stomped on. Don't you understand that nothing has changed at all? People still don't want to run FBI for the terrible loot drops and many haven't even started mod 10 because of the grind on top of the grind.

    If they are so intent on listening to the community, then why did they bring back Black Ice empowerment with a new name on it? Where is the foundry, and gateway at? I can list a huge number of broken promises, but what is the point. If you really want to see a change you won't go running back to the game at this moment. Remember, nothing has changed. Nobody in all of Faerun gained a single thing today, and it's important that you understand that.
  • rapo973rapo973 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    vikoon said:

    Not to be a downer, but what exactly are people thanking the devs for? They haven't given us anything yet

    But you cannot negate that they listened well: this is the first time they review their approach.
    We have now the opportunity to discuss something concrete: the loot.
    Then ofc they will be evaluated again when they publish the new proposal. For the time being, we have avoided another nerf.
    It's up to them to not disappoint again the expectations.
    Honestly I didn't expect such decision: the past experiences shows that they usually go straight and no listening.

    Oltreverso guild leader
    Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    vikoon said:

    Don't you understand that nothing has changed at all? People still don't want to run FBI for the terrible loot drops and many haven't even started mod 10 because of the grind on top of the grind.

    It's a promising first step that they listened and reacted to the community. All eyes are on the follow-through. This is a fantastic opportunity to make many players loyal to the game. Loyal players spend money. If they only pay lip service to the loot table changes, it will make many unhappy campers (unhappy campers don't spend money) and push some people away forever.

    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
  • bitt3rnightmar3bitt3rnightmar3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 788 Arc User
    vikoon said:

    Not to be a downer, but what exactly are people thanking the devs for? Remember, nothing has changed. Nobody in all of Faerun gained a single thing today, and it's important that you understand that.

    I don't think that anything has changed yet and that is not why I'm thanking them. I am acknowledging that they are listening and I'm giving them my thanks for ACTUALLY listening. I'm giving feedback, which was asked for and I'm watching to make sure their end of the bargain is upheld.

    Pretty much what everyone is doing. Watching. We're so beat down that we're thanking them for not sticking us with hot pokers.. again.

    My feedback for their black ice empowerment 2.0 voninblood is that I'm not going to use the gear. I don't need it anyway to do the content.
    Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
    --
    I'll never retrace my steps.

    Some of my best friends are Imaginary.


  • trivialrage#6656 trivialrage Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    null
    Yeah, if they don't follow through I will disappear. I have no problem spending money, in fact I would prefer to spend instead of grind. But if it doesn't change, I will leave. They don't need me in this game, but they need people like me.
  • lyaiselyaise Member Posts: 491 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    '....key change'...?
    I thought it was a bug fix.

    This does not need delaying, it needs consigning to the trash can. The feature should remain that allows players to accept or decline without using up a key.

    An increase in loot drops.....to what?
    The old favorite - "and a chance of one of the following....[insert something you'll never get]"
    What chance? 0.0001% increased to 0.001% ?

    And the gullible queue up to thank you for this as they burn through keys on unknowns.

    But the truth is out now, not a bug fix but a change to a new system - you said it.
    ...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
    "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
    ..............not this one then.............
  • elvalianonelvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    terrify10 said:

    I personally have ran over 350+ castle nevers and have not once pulled a orcus wand

    Teheee! :blush:
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    vikoon said:

    Not to be a downer, but what exactly are people thanking the devs for? They haven't given us anything yet, the only thing that they have done is make a promise. Thanking them for not rolling back a ridiculous change in the first place is beyond sad. (snip)

    A person's promise is as good as their deeds - until they prove it not to be so (IMO), and there has been a promise that what they proposed earlier will be at least suspended along with the promise that they will look into the rewards from the chests...

    Until they are proved wrong, I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt...

    It's not like there haven't been other changes and despite the number of negative comments nothing was done to address those concerns, there have been plenty of those, but at least we got someone to say the players have been heard and by all accounts so far, listened to.

    No doubt because this one particular decision more so than others appeared like it was going to negatively impact their revenue stream but regardless of the reason at least we have word that something is being done.

    That's my opinion anyway - Power to the People!
    DD~
  • cribbzycribbzy Member Posts: 1 Arc User

    First, thank you for pulling back on the change BEFORE fixing the loot, and not after.

    image

    Second, since you asked for it and I cannot resist giving opinions, here's mine:

    Stop being so crazy stingy with gear upgrades in chests, like the Legendary Rings. If you're going to dangle gear upgrades in front of players, make them obtainable. We know the drop rates on Legendary stuff is anywhere from 1:2000 to 1:5000. That's unbelievably painful for players when it comes to gear being obtainable. And my biggest fear for 10b is that the Legendary marks will be so soul-crushingly rare for players, that those Legendary ranks might as well not even exist.

    So make the gear obtainable by committed players. If you anticipate a level of content is going to be the top for the next 90-120 days, then make the drop rates reward players who commit to that content for 90-120 days.

    On the flip side, I'm fine with the super low drop rate items, but make these "extras". Rare mounts, companions, cosmetics, etc...stuff that people WANT but don't view as NEEDS.

    For example, what if a 1:5000 reward for the new 10b content was a BoE mount that was basically a Frost Giant that your rode around on his back? That would be cool as heck, but viewed as an optional reward that added to your prestige as a player, but not add to your overall power. Or rare frost giant cosmetic skins for weapons or armor? Stuff that helps you stand out from the other players, but isn't viewed as a "must have" for a "best in slot" character. Like Drufi's greatsword would be a killer skin for a GWF (no pun intended), and would probably sell well as a rare BoE cosmetic drop, but people aren't going to get frustrated if they never see a cosmetic drop (for the most part).

    And you could do this across all the content. Themed mounts, companions and cosmetics for all the dungeons. Cool Drow themed spider mounts or companions, and outfits for Temple of the Spider. Sweet pirate stuff from Cragmire Crypts. Wolf-themed drops form Grey Wolf...stuff like that. Make them all BoE and sellable on the AH. For two reasons. One, you'll give people rare "cash" drops they can sell. Two, you'll naturally create incentives for people to run different dungeons. If everyone is running Lostmauth or Temple because it's fast, you'll see a lot of those themed drops on the AH, meaning they'll be worth less. But the drops from GWD might be more expensive because they're more rare...so there's incentives for people to try to farm those.

    So when you think about how do you make chest loot exciting, think about what a player views as a NEED and what could be a great WANT, and mix these in so that a player always feels like completing a challenge and getting the loot is worth their time.

    I absolutely love this idea, I can't stress how long I've wanted the old cosmetics back in the game.there isn't too many good unique looking items left and most cost millions due to there rarity which is beyond ridiculous. Another thing apart from what you have mentioned is the revival of all the old dungeons being turned into epic dungeons to add variety to the current dungeon content. One thing I would like to see fixed though is castle never, I don't think it's appropriate for there to be blue salvage in those chest if it's not being constantly packaged with a purple piece of gear as it is a T2 dungeon and should constantly consist of T2 rewards.
  • greyhawk#1973 greyhawk Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    The key change was just the tipping point for a great many people. People no longer trust that their intentions are anything other than malicious.

    Mod 10 is a big problem, as well. No one listened to player feedback about this massive grind and it went live anyway. I've lost several friends because this game has becoming way too grindy.

    A token gesture like this to stop the hemorrhaging of players is nice, but it's just their way to control the bleeding. They need to do so much more to this game than upping drop rates! Though that us a great first step...

    It's too little too late for a huge number of people that have given up and moved on. They should have gotten in front of this the very next day, to stem the tide, instead of waiting more than a week.

    I hope they can make drastic changes to better the game overall, but it's too late I fear.
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User

    What do I want to see in the reward chest? How about some Rank 8 enchants, coal wards, bags(we need more ways to get bags, they don't got to be runic bags, but more bags for our alts please). World of Warcraft has bags that can drop from bosses and they're usually great, the chances aren't amazing to get them, but there have been chances to get bis bags from dungeons/raids. Profession assets would be nice, and also, more loot for salvaging.

    Anything that is easily attainable is easily devalued, in the terms of AD and in the terms of functionality in game content.
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


    FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
  • uptondarkdiamonduptondarkdiamond Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Thanks for listening to us!

    I have to say this might be a first time I have seen the community point out flaws with a system your planning on changing and your quick turn around to halt the change. Again, thanks for listening to us. As long as we have communications going both ways they will be hope for future positive changes!

    Ok, first I will say this about how I would like chests and loot in general to work.

    If what your introducing is a intricate part of the game (i.e. the new armor in SKT) you absolutely have to give us a non-RnG method through which to obtain this gear. This non RnG method can be by using seals (old and new). I don't know why we don't see new seals added with each new mod. This is the prefect system through which to get new gear. You have to play the game to get seals. As long as seals continue to go in our currency tab and not in our inventory this should not be a problem. Also, when i say new and old seal, I mean both should be required to get this gear. Obviously, the new seal should make up the majority of the cost, but i have no issue having to get a small portion of the cost of the new gear with old seals.

    You don't need to re-invent the wheel whenever you do something like this, after all you already have a system in play that support getting gear through a non-RnG method.

    1. You have a spot in Protector's Enclave called the Seven Suns Coster Marker. Here, you will find all kinds of vendors. These vendors probably don't sell many items because the stuff they sell becomes obsolete really fast. I would recommend revitalizing this critical part of the City of Neverwinter by using these already in place vendors as place where you can trade or upgrade your hard fought for and won dungeon loot or even exchange it for currency to buy upgrades for that gear.(or other item you need to exchange).

    The below merchants have not be updated with new stuff in quite sometime:

    Seal Trader: Phileas Gram (Good place to put catch all new stuff)
    Weapon Merchant: Slade Hackman (OP, GWF, GF, TR, and HR), weapon exchange merchant.
    Armor Merchant: Rolf Hamersmith, armor exchange merchant.
    Jewelery Merchant: Quin Carnelian, jewelery exchange merchant.
    Implement Merchant: Ria Talisman (CW, SW, and DC), weapon exchange merchant.
    Potion and Kit Merchant: Nan Redbrew, put armor kit removal solvents here.
    Stronghold Outfitter: Stronghold Outfitter(this guy should have a name he a friend of mine ;p), don't want to use seals or makes more sense to put stuff here to exhange new gear for dragon fangs, gives us another option. It also will keep dragonflight a thing for those High level guilds...

    Absolutely, we need and exhange merchant to help smooth/normalize RnG that is present for gear that is considered to be intricate to the new module. I can not stress this enough... you did great with underdark with demonic ichor requirements and getting the new weapons but then completely went astray from that idea with mod 10...

    2. Next, please consider that you have crafting that can help with the requirements of a new module being released.

    Crafting should be updated every mod and should have obtainable recipes (zen market, trade bar, wondrous bazaar...), or why even bother having such a system???.

    An example I have pointed out in other parts of the forum are items like the pants/shirts. Why they are only obtainable from campaign store is beyond me. We can already craft pants and shirts (probably ones still better campaign store) but can not craft them... I mean comon.... keep crafting relevant!!! Adding those recipes would go along way to keeping crafting relevant.

    Another spot I think Cryptic missed the mark with is Lanolin. You can wiki Lanolin and see what it is made of. With that said, they should have made available to the Leatherworking profession the ability to make Lanolin. Use Elemental Evils template for making Unified elements (Alchemy) and apply it to making lanolin. Even use the same time requirements, sure there would be some objections, but at least you would have another path to getting that stuff beyond mindlessly running those dead horse HE's we have endured since Mod 3 and yet somehow they seem to have multiplied since our dungeon selection was eliminated.

    Again, I can't stress this enough, you guys have said there is only so much time and money to do things. I completely understand that, I have worked in a job where time was critical (sometimes a matter of life or death) and money was short, you have to prioritize correctly or things go south fast. But, if you have a system in place already (crafting/merchants) wouldn't updating some of these old aspects save you time and money??? Just saying.

    3. The UGC and D&D aspect of this game has a lot of draw. With that said I honestly believe that foundry is not support near as much as it should be. This should not be the case. I know the risks of adding good loot to a foundry quest but you should find someway to make this happen. The old way was to run foundry 4(i think that was the number) time to get 8k (RAD). Ok, RAD was enough to get me into the content but AD only goes so far with enjoying content. Please consider adding a process which reviewed and approved foundries gets some teeth that the helps smooth/normalize RnG . I don't know maybe a voucher that improves RnG in your next dungeon run, or a foundry seals that can be used at the seal trader to get a unique look for your character... just give foundry some teeth. Again, people would be more involved in the game and it would save you time and money by utilizing a passionate and talented group of folks that love story telling.

    4. Not everything in the game need to have an RoI based of astral diamonds completely boring and unimaginative (IMHO). Here is an idea I like contained within this thread! However, they should be BoE, that way if the person doesn't want desire said item they can sell it on the auction house.. comon rare drops don't happen everyday (I still i have never seen a +5 ring drop despite my valiant efforts ;p)

    ....continued.....

    Post edited by uptondarkdiamond on
  • uptondarkdiamonduptondarkdiamond Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    What do you want to see in your Dungeon chests?

    Surprise me. That's it.

    In my opinion, one of the most boring things about running dungeons in Neverwinter is that you know what you can get and that there is a very small loot table in each one. I would like to run every dungeon knowing that even the old ones that I haven't visited in days or months can still reward me with something unexpected. If you check the feedback, most players want to see a reward worth the time invested on running the dungeon so we can farm them and it won't feel like a chore, which is ok because that's the core of the game but it would be nice to get items that you are not supposed to farm because you can get them in every dungeon, "by playing the game". It shouldn't be something that everyone must have but stuff that is good to find: fashion items, new rare dyes, mounts, companions, campaign resources (good either for yourself or for the guild), new weapon skins, vouchers, and a huge etc.

    My point is that I don't want to run a dungeon just to open a chest a say: nice, the same loot (ad, seals and 1 epic item) like in my previous 100 runs, how fun. I prefer to say: ok, let's see what I got today in this run... Surprise!

    Just because a dungeon is old or there's a very low ilvl requirement doesn't mean that they are useless or boring by design, we are bored of running the same content just to find the same lame loot. Dungeons are fun, playing with other players is fun and we can go back to these old dungeons if you make them fun by adding the element of surprise in the end of it.

    Please, don't go for the easy route of adding a lot of RP to the chests because you already did this for every chest that requires a legendary key. Take your time, evaluate the situation and make Neverwinter great again (lol).

    The surprise could be anything! Making something hard to get and unique is great as long as its not an intricate part of enjoying your game playing experience. Believe it or not I think you have a lot of this stuff in the game, so again you don't need to reinvent the wheel here:

    Examples of Rare Loot I find desirable but not intricate to my playstyle

    a. Rare companions that were part of giveaways. Celste, SGT Knox, Makos... there are a bunch, but they honestly don't add much to game play but do have a unique look. I know there are some companions out that add to game play (maybe to much Death Slaad, ambush drake, Harper Bard) that should be added to this list, and if there to broken/buggy to add to this list maybe they should be targeted for a fix then.
    b. Mounts (lockbox/trade bar/wondrous bazaar). Do I want a legendary mount?? Who doesn't. They are way out of my price range and only work for one character (i'm an altoholic, well meet). Maybe it doesn't have to be the actual mount maybe just the skin, I honestly don't desire the Tenser's Disk because of it stats and what not... its a brilliant mount that has ties to D&D lore (lots of Tenser spells out there in DnD world), I would love to have that skin....
    c. Choke point RP (coal ward, preservation wards, superior/greater marks of potency). I know we have to be careful here as I know preservation wards are part on the zen market and therefore one of the ways you make a profit. Though I don't have access to your numbers, I doubt you sell many Coal wards beyond somebodies first purchase of one. Coal ward pricing is hard to justify beyond taking an enchant or artifact gear to the final level and even then you talking just under a month of paid game play (subscription based game) to power up 1 item... see what I mean very tough sell. I don't know I guess I wouldn't mind so much seeing this stuff added but I don't see you doing it.

    5. Though this doesn't have much to do with dungeon loot and the key change it does affect how I spend money. Like I said i'm and altoholic and I like being able to play all the class neverwinter has to offer. That said, anything that makes it harder for me to play an alt causes me angst, Mod 10 is an example of alt unfriendly. So, when I look to buy stuff from the zen market if it is not account wide i will turn it down... or buy with converted zen. Truth be told one of my first draws to this game was the fact that I could spend 35 dollars have the fastest mount in game for all my character (current and future). Smart, really smart, other games make you grind for that pleasure that only works on 1 character. When I look at the companions though this is not the case... only 1 character gets that companion.... I'll pass or use converted zen to buy if its really a must have.

    I don't understand why mounts and companions only have 1 option to buy? They should have both an account sale and a character sale. Trust me when I say this, if it is not account wide i will probably not spend RL $ on it. You could maybe add a thrid hybrid option to this where your subsequent purchase for same zen item reduced with each purchase???.... hmm maybe you would get my attention. Actually, maybe you should have all 3 options. My point is this, game has been around for 3 years, you have a hard core following (mod 6 killed the mediocre), we have an account that has more than 1 character, we also want to spend money(some of us do anyway) to support you and the game we love, but there isn't much we desire from zen market atm....


    Sorry for the wall of text, thanks for reading!

    and Thanks again for listening to the community! Despite what some might say (they may never admit it) it is greatly appreciated.
  • foxxy#4211 foxxy Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 563 Arc User
    Thank you for listening to your community.
    Rewards i would expect to get for taking my time to run a dungeon are:
    Elol - valindra - malabogs: These T1 dungeons should have a higher chance to drop the respective artifact set (Cloak, belt and artifact), in addition to their regular rare-salvageable item. Additionaly to this, secondary bosses should have a higher chance to drop either a rare insignia and a salvageable item; insignias dropped to every player, not a need-greed fight.
    Etos - ECC - Egwd: T2 dungeons that need to drop better items by secondary bosses and final boss, as well as rare insignias. Right now, runnin these dungeons is lame, cause the chance to get an epic item from each boss is very low. Final chests, wouldnt be bad to have epic-bind on pickup- insignia.
    Cn: "T2" dungeon, harder than above ones, needs to have better rewards. Secondary bosses need to drop insignias more often, in the same system, for each player, not need/ green. Final chests MUST have r8 enchantments and guarantee a +4 ring and a higher chance for gold rings, in addition to an epic salvageable item.
    FBI: i havent run this, not interested either, but this dungeon should have top rewards.
    finally, all skirmishes should work the same. Kessel should have a higher chance for the artifact to drop. and underdarnk skirmishes a higher chance to drop +4 and gold rings.
  • mimicking#6533 mimicking Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 83 Cryptic Developer

    Oh, and let's not forget about about the stuff from the Gateway (RIP my friend)...

    • Lightfoot Thief
    • Loyal Companion Gear
    Ironzerg, never forgotten.
    Cheers
    M.K.
    Go ahead, click on the chest...
  • mimicking#6533 mimicking Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 83 Cryptic Developer

    What do you want to see in your Dungeon chests?

    Surprise me. That's it.

    In my opinion, one of the most boring things about running dungeons in Neverwinter is that you know what you can get and that there is a very small loot table in each one. I would like to run every dungeon knowing that even the old ones that I haven't visited in days or months can still reward me with something unexpected. If you check the feedback, most players want to see a reward worth the time invested on running the dungeon so we can farm them and it won't feel like a chore, which is ok because that's the core of the game but it would be nice to get items that you are not supposed to farm because you can get them in every dungeon, "by playing the game". It shouldn't be something that everyone must have but stuff that is good to find: fashion items, new rare dyes, mounts, companions, campaign resources (good either for yourself or for the guild), new weapon skins, vouchers, and a huge etc.

    My point is that I don't want to run a dungeon just to open a chest a say: nice, the same loot (ad, seals and 1 epic item) like in my previous 100 runs, how fun. I prefer to say: ok, let's see what I got today in this run... Surprise!

    Just because a dungeon is old or there's a very low ilvl requeriment doesn't mean that they are useless or boring by design, we are bored of running the same content just to find the same lame loot. Dungeons are fun, playing with other players is fun and we can go back to these old dungeons if you make them fun by adding the element of surprise in the end of it.

    Please, don't go for the easy route of adding a lot of RP to the chests because you already did this for every chest that requires a legendary key. Take your time, evaluate the situation and make Neverwinter great again (lol).

    Lazaroth, Thanks for the input. I feel the same way you do about dungeon love, and I assure you that we are not going the easy route. We are really working towards a cohesive change.
    Cheers
    M.K.
    Go ahead, click on the chest...
  • flyingleonflyingleon Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    I would restrict my suggestions on loots and chest rewards.

    When I started to play this game, I think there are 4 pillars of game play. PVE, especially dungeons, PVP, Foundary and AH. Yes, play AH too. One thing connecting PVE and AH is bound to equipment loots. Yes, you get good loots in dungeons and you get profit by selling them in AH. With BoE loots, even if one have them, one can still sell them. And yes, BoE loots stimulate the market. We will have a healthy economy and people have fun by playing AH. I really hope we can BoE loots again in dungeons.

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  • sneak#6191 sneak Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    I wouldn't mind a higher drop rate for +5 rings in general and for gold rewards in Throne (and whichever other are like this) to actually give better rewards. This means whenever there is a gold reward there should be a certain set of possible item drops and some/one of them should drop. Higher value items would have a lower chance in this category to drop while lower value ones are more common but because the player achieves gold they deserve gold-level rewards.

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  • bitt3rnightmar3bitt3rnightmar3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 788 Arc User

    because the player achieves gold they deserve gold-level rewards.

    I've wondered why we still get HAMSTER for loot for Gold as well. There isn't any reason for this ranking system if you don't actually achieve anything by meeting it's requirements.
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  • goatfaceonegoatfaceone Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    i just want a few things
    - Loyal Companion Gear
    - Nothing Bind to Character
    - secondary way to earn rare drop, if i burn a 100 keys and 50+ hours, should be able to out right buy rareloot+5
  • lordseth1985lordseth1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 315 Arc User
    What I wanna see changed on dungeon chest?

    hmmm let's see:

    please remove some drops from chests and put others: like removing r5 enchants and peridots/aquamarines in exchange for r8 [and maybe r9], blue rp stones [resonance, thaumaturge, artifact stones] and sapphires; also, increase rng for artifacts and make bosses drop stuff. thats awfull when you kill orcus and all you got is a peridot [if orcus drop anything]. also, make the rewards on bonus chests really worth the time and effort we put on doing those content.

    create more gear with diverse stats. making each piece drop only on certain dungeons [like pre-mod6 was] surely will make ppl do more and more dungeons and spent all those keys. and pls, don't forget to make then unbound and only boe! it was fun to run all those dungeons just to get the piece of gear you wanted... and the ones you don't wanted? just sell it on ah! this would create a diversity of gear, and not everyone using the same drow/alliance/elven armor...

    let us craft a unique and universal dungeon/skirmish key created with campaign currencies. also, reduce the time needed to craft those keys. it's a pain in the HAMSTER waiting 20 hours to get them, which make us running it only once a day for the bonus chest.

    each dungeon could reward us with especific themed itens, like cosmetics, mounts, companions. I.E. gwd could drop wolf mounts and armor transmutes, cc and pirate lair could drop pirate outfit, tos could drop the so loved spider armor [really, many cw use it and just don't change their gear cuz of that]. also, cta could have a greater chance to drop those items or drop companions and mounts at higher lvl [dungeons could drop green companions and mounts, while cta drop blue ones]

    for now, that's all I'm asking. really hope someone listen to all those good ideas here.
    Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
  • lordseth1985lordseth1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 315 Arc User

    Oh, and let's not forget about about the stuff from the Gateway (RIP my friend)...

    • Lightfoot Thief
    • Loyal Companion Gear
    Ironzerg, never forgotten.
    Cheers
    M.K.
    that's awesome idea! make bonus chest have a chance droping the loyal or adorable companio gear!!!
    Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
  • uptondarkdiamonduptondarkdiamond Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 169 Arc User
    One more thing.... I know, I know....

    For longer more intense dungeons (like FBI) there should be some reward chest at each boss.. or some currency to provide progress to being able to purchase the new campaign gear... i.e. First boss decent change to progress towards that new piece of gear with chance of arms dropping out right, Second boss decent chance to progress towards new piece of gear with chance of head piece dropping out right, last boss good chance to progress towards new piece of gear, good chance to drop arms/head piece, decent chance to drop chest piece. Just example for FBI....

    I honestly don't know how anyone does this dungeons under 30 minutes... my best time so far was 50 mins, my worst time was just a little over 2 hours, both times walked away with very little in terms of being able to progress towards getting the gear...

    With the exchange vendors in place (even if this gear remains btc) you could exchange it for campaign currency and buy some other trinket for those exchange vendors...
  • zman81420zman81420 Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Better variety of loot drops is all I ask for. Opening a chest I like eating at McDonald's hamburger bland same old expectations with the one exception of a free item in your drive through bag. We are salvaging gear that's been irrelevant for 2-4 mods now for established players. The odds of a jump out your seat item is laughable and the ones who happen upon usually have countless times before that. We the players have sadly settled with this available bad gear drops. Can you wow us again cryptic? Choice ring chest would be amazing if you could get a +5 to drop.
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  • mimicking#6533 mimicking Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 83 Cryptic Developer

    Mr Foss,

    First I would like to thank you for delaying this change.
    It is somewhat encouraging to know that the team at Cryptic has finally listened to the community.

    I for one, over the past week, have seriously begun to rethink my involvement in this game. I have logged in everyday, since I'm a VIP member, but every time I did, my thoughts were always "what for?" or "why bother?"

    It was becoming more and more difficult to justify my time and money to this game.

    In a small way, you have restored my faith in the game.
    I have to say, that now, I look forward to what proposed changed you and your team will come up with. There are many people in the community that are passionate about the game. A number of them have provided feedback in a number of threads about this particular issue. Taking some of those to heart would do wonders for the community.

    There are other things that can be done as well, like the return of the missing dungeons, the Foundry, or a host of otherquality of life proposals that have been offered.

    So again, thank-you.

    Rifter, thanks for your faith in the game. We are (not the royal we, I have a team) actually looking at all the posts. We may not answer them all, but we are looking and filling a white board with feedback.
    And a lover of dungeons, I'm right there with you. Keep a weather eye.
    Regards,
    M.K.
    Go ahead, click on the chest...
  • forums700forums700 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    I'm glad to see good sense prevailed, but I'm not sure we're out of the woods just yet.

    The fact that the company came so close to implementing such a potentially disastrous change implies there is a serious problem with your understanding of what is important to the community and of your own internal processes for criticism and review of these decisions.

    This isn't meant to sound like sour grapes, but you really need to take more away from this than thinking it was a once-off problem and everything is better now. Look at how you make these decisions, how well you are taking the community's pulse, and think about how this occurred within the context of some people already being quite irritated with the state of the game and some other recent decisions.

    Community good will seems to be at a very low point right now, and it would be in your best interests to do what you can to repair the relationship for the sake of keeping people in game and spending money.

    Retaining long term players is important to the health of the game; find ways to make spending money more attractive to them too, instead of this revolving door model you seem to favour, and you will be laughing all the way to the bank.

    Thanks.
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