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[PC] Combating Gold Spammers

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  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    I am not sure a high threshold is a wise idea.
    If my wife starts playing (and paying) NWO tomorrow I cannot give her an enchantment or buy her an ensorcelled weapon from the ZAX? Think of the impact these regulations have on legit players as well!
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • mysticbricksmysticbricks Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    metalldjt said:

    Make an auto profession and auto invoking feature

    And make one of the core components of an of a good rpg a set and forget function. -1
    metalldjt said:

    make the auto proffesion ingame

    Surely if you are in game you can do it yourself, or is there a side of laziness that i have not discovered yet!.. whats next? in game auto leveling, in game auto dungeons, or why not just pay cryptic to play the game for you
    fastrean1 said:

    and for the mails, how about make a contact list that only allow to mail accepted friends & guild mates?

    +1, This ^ create a mailbox filter. and set the defaults to only accept mail from friends & guild mates so even new players will never get harassed.


    To fix gateway botting just add in profession tasks specially for leveling professions, when you hit or pass the required profession xp to level up in a profession you must first complete another profession task that grants you access to higher level profession tasks. One of the the requirements for the task is a BOP (and cannot be discarded.. stored in the professions tab) item that is found in game while questing. This does not have to be for every profession level increase, say only for increases from level 9-10, 14-15, 19-20 etc. similar to the way the leveling of black ice shaping is handled.
  • jaysun1977jaysun1977 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 177 Arc User

    new characters will be subject to the following restrictions until you have progressed a certain amount in the main quests:

    - No ability to use the AD Exchange
    - No ability to perform in-person trades
    - No ability to send a mail message that contains items
    - No ability to post a message to Say, Trade, Zone, and LFG chat
    - No ability to use “Say” in static zones
    - No ability to post on the Auction House

    I find my self dumbfounded by these changes. Surely no one at Cryptic is under the illusion that a botting rogram is unable to run a few simple story quests. If success stories like wowglider and similar product are any indication that that overcoming such trivial hurdles provides no challenge to botting programs, whatsoever. What it certainly will do, however, is increase load on the server the moment all those bots start running quest chains.

    Why would you do that? It makes no sense and reeks of terrible desperation.
  • krakenckrakenc Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    This is good, now I will have less emails to delete every other day. now if they would just fix the arc login in browser I use chrome
    the same chrome browser. but everytime i log in I have to get a otp code from my email and sublit the pin same computer same browser but every single time
  • fourdeefourdee Member Posts: 1 New User
    Excellent! I don't blame farmers/sellers (except for being annoying on chat and email) but the people who buy from them because it does disrupt the economy. However, someone once pointed out to me that those who work long hours should be able to spend their cash to buy stuff that compensates for the little time they can play. I believe that NW does give additional vacation xp, though, and items are available to buy through purchasing zen or arc money which pays for game development. So cheers for a clever strike in the ongoing battle.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    krakenc said:

    This is good, now I will have less emails to delete every other day. now if they would just fix the arc login in browser I use chrome
    the same chrome browser. but everytime i log in I have to get a otp code from my email and sublit the pin same computer same browser but every single time

    That indicates that you are not accepting cookies from Gateway, so of course it triggers the security measures every time.

    How else is the website meant to remember you?
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  • lordgio1984lordgio1984 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 17 Arc User
    Everything you do to reduce gold sellers and/or bots is well done.
    I like NW very much, I've been playing here for about 2 years. I come from another online game, I won't write its name here but I'll tell you about how they blocked all the bot users and spammers. They were aware of the increasing number of players using bots and other not licit instruments to farm in-game values and/or items. They announced to the community that bots were not allowed in the game and that some restrictions would have been taken against those who used them. After that announcement, the silence: Bot users were increasing more and more, characters that were useless both in pve and pvp became quickly holy beasts. People playing honestly were totally discouraged as they see their own efforts totally overwelmed by bot users's easy and free growth. Many of us quickly ceased each pvp activity: it was totally useless: no matter how much you were good at pvp, if you were a honest, self-made player you were sistematically defeated (and often insulted as well). We finished to play in a strict circle of friends, that simply were not bot users. For weeks and weeks, they did not do anything to stop them, and we started to get more and more angry as they seemed not to have interest in stopping them.
    But it was just a wrong sensation of ours. Developers launched a sort of program that tracked the connections to the servers for a long period and it was able to find all the accounts that were driven by bots and... a nice day, after a patch, the ban-hammer hit them all with a perma ban.
    Temporary bans and other restrictions are not enough to stop bot users, as they continue with their activities after those restricions expire. But hitting them with a perma ban (and, therefore, they cannot have access anymore to the resources they have saved on their own accounts) would be the best therapy against them.
    Moreover, let's talk about "leadership" and about all those programs that auto run it. You've already removed ADs from it, but it's not enough. What about binding to the account everything that comes from it? You could also do the same with the items coming from the spoils of war that we drop from quartermaster enchantments. AH is full of items coming from players who farm them with bots and it's simply discouraging.
    I pray everyday for a nice perma-ban wave that would make this game much cleaner.
  • lythaguslythagus Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    I agree, seems like us who have been loyal players keep losing more things with added restrictions but get nothing back....I guess they just want us to spend lots of actual money. Oh wait, I do that and still get nothing more as a benifit for loyalty.


    > @two30 said:
    > Lock the Gateway for characters that haven't met these game-play requirements and bring it back up for the rest of us, please.
  • sasagerusasageru Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    I really like this idea, but i agree with suggestions to extend this to the gateway for professions (or just add captcha's or something).
    DPS Rogue | Heal/Buff Cleric
     
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    @sasageru "or just add captcha's or something"

    I agree. Captcha is a simple solution.

    Require Captcha every time you change maps, open gateway or open AH.

    It would be an irritation to us honest (non-botting) human players at first.
    But I bet most of us would accept a 5 second Captcha delay in exchange for the total elimination of bots.

    I've seen this mentioned a few times in the past 2 years.
    I don't recall the devs ever commenting or considering it.
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  • lordgio1984lordgio1984 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    @sasageru "or just add captcha's or something"

    I agree. Captcha is a simple solution.

    Require Captcha every time you change maps, open gateway or open AH.

    It would be an irritation to us honest (non-botting) human players at first.
    But I bet most of us would accept a 5 second Captcha delay in exchange for the total elimination of bots.

    I've seen this mentioned a few times in the past 2 years.
    I don't recall the devs ever commenting or considering it.

    Captcha is an exhausting solution and it would make most people quit the game.
    I play with 3 characters and often switch them, not counting how many times I switch maps. Moreover I play marginally with other 3 small characters (they do twice normal ToS) to gain and spare some extra ADs. I would go crazy at the second day, if they introduced captcha for each change of map/toon.

    I sincerely hope they will find a more incisive solution, without causing annoyances or restrictions to legit players.
  • virsalus#4183 virsalus Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    fourdee said:

    Excellent! I don't blame farmers/sellers (except for being annoying on chat and email) but the people who buy from them because it does disrupt the economy. However, someone once pointed out to me that those who work long hours should be able to spend their cash to buy stuff that compensates for the little time they can play. I believe that NW does give additional vacation xp, though, and items are available to buy through purchasing zen or arc money which pays for game development. So cheers for a clever strike in the ongoing battle.

    You know what disrupts the economy even further? Bad design decisions that prevent new players from catching up to old players.
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    metalldjt said:

    @weaver936 i belive you dont understand logic.



    Reason why auto profession will help is that.

    1. More people will get into it, therefor the supply will be high

    2. New players will be able to enter in this systen aswell and get their refinement.

    3. If players will do it, for boters will be less profit.



    Remove it from gateway, make the auto proffesion ingame , there you have a higher number of players logged, more activity.





    So what do you win ?

    1. A new player gets in the system and affords upgrading.

    2. There will always be a supply

    3. We get rid of bots, by makin it far more accesible for players.

    No matter how easy you make getting AD, there will be the lazy or ignorant that don't want to do it.. They will buy from Gold Spammers anyways. If you make getting AD easier it will drive up prices by an equal ratio.

    The only thing you will change is making it easier to not put money into legitimate systems that keep the game Company in business and providing us a service and lower the number of people actually PLAYING the game, which increases the griping about high Queue wait times. Yes, they could monetize the automated system, but everything else they offer for sell would have to have their prices increased for them to make any money out of it. And the prices are already too high relative to the Auction House for informed individuals to buy Zen to get them. If the item can only be bought with Zen, then just make the Ad to get the Zen and boom.. done.. No need to deposit.

    ANY method you do to make AD generation will benefit illegitamate AD generators more than anyone else... making the game less profitable for the Game Company, and thereby forcing them to make stupidly repatative content like Mod 10 for people to get what they want. Which makes people even more tempted to buy from Gold Spammers.
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


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  • darkstarrfoffdarkstarrfoff Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    dread4moor wrote: »
    @sasageru "or just add captcha's or something"

    I agree. Captcha is a simple solution.

    Require Captcha every time you change maps, open gateway or open AH.

    It would be an irritation to us honest (non-botting) human players at first.
    But I bet most of us would accept a 5 second Captcha delay in exchange for the total elimination of bots.

    I've seen this mentioned a few times in the past 2 years.
    I don't recall the devs ever commenting or considering it.

    This is probably quite literally the dumbest suggestion I have seen for this game so far. I change maps a lot and occasionally I open the AH to price something. Other times I check a price a few times a day to see if someone prices it far lower so I can get a deal. Other times I need to quickly buy some potions. This would be an asinine way to try and deal with botters since it would very quickly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off a majority of the players who the game needs to, you know actually play the damn game and use the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AH.

    TBH the bot spam really isn't that bad at all. Sure it's annoying but basically anything they do WILL affect legitimate players.​​
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    yuhbumbuh said:

    I agree with all those measures except limiting say and zone posts. With this new players will be unable to ask questions "for a few hours".

    The game is NOT that complicated and what needs to be done for basic game play is stated in the early quests... although, they really do need to take a look at the early quests and instructions in game content to make sure of this.

    In PE Zone chat I see more morons than helpful people.. so.. limiting access to PE ZOne Chat for new players might actually help them enjoy the game more. :D.
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


    FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User

    Not everyone has the time to play 10 characters up to the point where these restrictions don't hold for them anymore. Hell, my main character doesn't even have an ilvl of 2.5k and I have been playing for months.

    You're doing it wrong. :D
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


    FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User

    fourdee said:

    Excellent! I don't blame farmers/sellers (except for being annoying on chat and email) but the people who buy from them because it does disrupt the economy. However, someone once pointed out to me that those who work long hours should be able to spend their cash to buy stuff that compensates for the little time they can play. I believe that NW does give additional vacation xp, though, and items are available to buy through purchasing zen or arc money which pays for game development. So cheers for a clever strike in the ongoing battle.

    You know what disrupts the economy even further? Bad design decisions that prevent new players from catching up to old players.
    Guilds help New Players catch up to Old players.. if they are decent and not just focused on Pixels (the guilds and the players).
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


    FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
  • dragoness10dragoness10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    weaver936 said:

    metalldjt said:

    Make an auto profession and auto invoking feature , u can monotize the leadership/profession , you will not b the first to let features work on auto pilot, there are other games aswell tht to combat boting they had to accept these as features , and i dont see anythin about it goin wrong.

    This or something similar to it is another way that the Gold Sellers have AD to sell... AND also the reason there's been a stupid amount of free ad in game that makes the AH's prices so high. In short, you don't know what you are talking about if you think auto would be good.
    It is better to make things manual so there are less lines of code for bots to pick up on punishing us legit players who actually want to do things.

    In NWN Classic often hack-er used bot programs were banned (and the players that used them) so that people whom weren't online didn't reap more benefits over those whom were online to actually play with others, and even roleplay with others. It was often a banable from a server offense to use bots for professions, or leveling.

    If you're just going to autopilot everything why bother to play? Please log off instead, and do not contribute to the lag the rest of us have to plod through. That's what bot programs can do - LAG LIKE A (censored word). I hate 'em.

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  • fishwhisperer#8695 fishwhisperer Member Posts: 44 Arc User

    While we can’t share the specifics of these changes, new characters will be subject to the following restrictions until you have progressed a certain amount in the main quests

    May I ask why it is a character unlock (removing the restriction) and not an account unlock?
    If I have played through the requirements I should have proven that the account is not driven by a bot.
    I really do hope that if you "ban" someone you don't only ban one character but the whole account.
    THIS. Every legit account will have at least one character that has a lot of time put into. It would make so much more sense to impose HIGHER restrictions but only on ONE char to lift restrictions for the entire account.
    A-FRICKIN-MEN here!
  • fishwhisperer#8695 fishwhisperer Member Posts: 44 Arc User

    weaver936 said:

    metalldjt said:


    If you're just going to autopilot everything why bother to play? Please log off instead, and do not contribute to the lag the rest of us have to plod through. That's what bot programs can do - LAG LIKE A (censored word). I hate 'em.

    Or better yet, just go play one of the games that lets you be lazy and bot everything and leave NW alone.
  • virsalus#4183 virsalus Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    weaver936 said:

    fourdee said:

    Excellent! I don't blame farmers/sellers (except for being annoying on chat and email) but the people who buy from them because it does disrupt the economy. However, someone once pointed out to me that those who work long hours should be able to spend their cash to buy stuff that compensates for the little time they can play. I believe that NW does give additional vacation xp, though, and items are available to buy through purchasing zen or arc money which pays for game development. So cheers for a clever strike in the ongoing battle.

    You know what disrupts the economy even further? Bad design decisions that prevent new players from catching up to old players.
    Guilds help New Players catch up to Old players.. if they are decent and not just focused on Pixels (the guilds and the players).
    Show me the guild that will just outfit all of their members with full rank 12 enchants, then.
  • h3llbentwisph3llbentwisp Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    When it comes to gateway there should be a captcha put on it. Yes they are annoying but it takes five seconds to type in the little box and prevents a computer program from using the system. If somebody wants to sit there all day and play SCA or do professions or what not to farm gold, AD, and gear. Then well Cryptic should hire them because apparantely they really want to work for them.

    For the AH they should put a cap in there on items. I know that it would cut into legit players AD revenue, but it would prevent third party sellers from exchanging AD like they do. They ask you to list any random blue/purple item for 1 million and in house cost. To make the exchange of the AD. So you can't list a level 20 set of Agile boots of parrying (not sure if that is a actual item I'm just trying to make an example) That has really crappy stats on it for 1,110,000 Astrals. The cap would prevent this.

    Just my opinions. In all honesty I have yet to see a free MMO that doesn't have some type of botting and exploits going on. Sadly to say we don't live in a fair and honest world. (Not that I agree with it)
  • xreverusxxreverusx Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    two30 said:

    Lock the Gateway for characters that haven't met these game-play requirements and bring it back up for the rest of us, please.

    ^GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oh and here's another good question, will players who buy a "Premade" character be required to do pre lvl 60 quests?
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,435 Arc User


    THIS. Every legit account will have at least one character that has a lot of time put into. It would make so much more sense to impose HIGHER restrictions but only on ONE char to lift restrictions for the entire account.

    I like it!!!
  • coliercolier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Again, They have been monitoring the system, viewing logs and accumulating data. Nothing is stopping Cryptic from Perma Banning these people. Seems like they are trying to weed out the lower level Spammers/Bots by implementing these progress filters and placing the above rules in place (which in-turn can hurt new legitimate players just starting the game wanting to seek help in-game...by silencing them for so many levels). The good from this is, it will force the higher level bots out into the open (Someone will have to advertise) and they can grab their accounts as well.

    These higher level accounts would have a bit more to lose I would think. The point is, will Cryptic follow through...or just keep killing off game mechanics players use? I keep asking myself...why would a company that knows who is exploiting and using bots not do anything about it. Instead just keep implementing hindering adjustments to the game mechanics that regular players feel useful and beneficial.

    So many conspiracy theories pop into my head, I get dizzy.

    Perma-Ban these bots and lets get to playing the game. So what if it makes it look like the games population drops. The game will get many more players in return and gain the ability to retain them if you do not cripple the mechanics any further.
  • nylatlthesecondnylatlthesecond Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    So...this is interesting, but I feel it might screw over legitimately new players seeking for help. If they can't access the main two chats to talk to others or ask others' help, how are they to figure out what to do? Sure, there's the ole "playing yourself" but not everyone can spare the amount of time needed to get to the point where you unlock everything.

    And no, it doesn't take a "couple of hours", it takes definitely a good 4 or more hours to get to that point, and not everyone has that many hours to spare on any given day.

    Also, saying pre-existing characters would not get affected by it, is not true, as I've heard people getting some of their alts affected by it.
This discussion has been closed.