so aside of the traditional speculation of Mr This and Ms That, the traditional non-sense of Mr That and Ms This, the traditional bad suggestions from the couple This That, any real information?
I'm still waiting for Andy to get logged on. It's still earlier in the day than when he usually logs on. Someone should have some official information within 2 - 3 hours.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
So the gateway's closed-source nature doesn't prevent exploiting. Anyone clever enough to use an API can already automate the gateway, but it's difficult for skilled programmers to create a legitimate alternative to the gateway that benefits all players.
The real solution to exploitation is to adjust how professions work so that a human player and a bot will have about the same benefit (e.g. worthwhile tasks that take 24 hours, not 4 hours), allow limited task queuing, and make sure the total resources granted per day from crafting are reasonable.
You still have to deal with the fact that some players have 50 characters on their account and will have the same economic gain as 10 players that have 5 characters per account. That horse is out of the barn, though. PWE took money for those character slots and it would be very messy to walk that back.
PS - Botters can also automate the game client. This was proven when Leadership was temporarily removed from the gateway (back when you could directly generate raw AD).
In large part, this is my thinking too. In addition to allowing saavy players to add QoL features, the other important part here is that EVERYONE can be on equal footing. Build the automation in so there's simply isn't an exploit here. As suggested above, build the rewards around the fact that they can be automated, then allow the automation. Opening the source simply means those of us with the expertise can create/contribute legit QoL enhancements to the game experience of all players. Instead of writing code, whoever is running the gateway becomes a system architect instead of a pure developer - perhaps creating and publishing feature wishlists for the community to build rather than having to code it him/herself, then vetting the stuff that's committed, organizing it, and stewarding it through QA - probably under more or less the existing dev processes.
The gateway client is already "open source" simply because it's run client-side on the browser. I would never suggest they open source their server software, but the web client is just standard JS/HTML/CSS - if you want to look at every single line of code, you already can without doing anything particularly special. My suggestion is simply that rather than fighting against a community that is seeking a reduction is the rote clickityclick, they should consider options (my suggestion being one of many possibilities) to embrace the community's enthusiasm and harness their talent to their benefit.
Just exposing JSON or similar API (with more stuff), even read only one, and people can have the things that were asked for years now, like guild roster with modern search with autocomplete, automatic events like raffles, and a lot of stuff...
Just exposing JSON or similar API (with more stuff), even read only one, and people can have the things that were asked for years now, like guild roster with modern search with autocomplete, automatic events like raffles, and a lot of stuff...
Yeah, I built that a couple years ago to aggregate all the Cloaks guild membership into a single searchable roster (which included membership trending) using the existing JSON - but there's no way to get it in an automated way without violating the rules, and digging the JSON out from the browser console is a pain, so I rewrote my app to use the CSV output from /ExportGuildMemberList instead. The only real difference is that the JSON exposed rank numbers as well as names, but the in-game command only has the name - no big deal unless you use wacky names (like the Cloaks do) that don't sort well.
There's TONS of cool things we could do - automation of professions totally aside. Just the QoL possibilities for guild leaders alone would be awesome.
so aside of the traditional speculation of Mr This and Ms That, the traditional non-sense of Mr That and Ms This, the traditional bad suggestions from the couple This That, any real information?
I'm still waiting for Andy to get logged on. It's still earlier in the day than when he usually logs on. Someone should have some official information within 2 - 3 hours.
It's 10:30 PDT and he still hasn't logged in? He sure seems to be on top of things.
so aside of the traditional speculation of Mr This and Ms That, the traditional non-sense of Mr That and Ms This, the traditional bad suggestions from the couple This That, any real information?
I'm still waiting for Andy to get logged on. It's still earlier in the day than when he usually logs on. Someone should have some official information within 2 - 3 hours.
It's 10:30 PDT and he still hasn't logged in? He sure seems to be on top of things.
He is on and making posts about PVP 1v1 and stuff. So he is around....gateway just must not be a priority - that or it was down on purpose and they just don't want to say why.
It's 10:30 PDT and he still hasn't logged in? He sure seems to be on top of things.
He doesn't make the call on official announcements like that, he just posts them (and perhaps drafts them), but there's no doubt an approval process he has to go through, so cut Strumslinger some slack on that. He does have a job to do, which he's clearly doing. I'm not being an apologist - SOMEONE from Cryptic should absolutely have put a statement out on Friday and it's the worst kind of negligence that it didn't happen, but at this point waiting another hour or so for them to explain what's going probably isn't a big deal. It's already a poopit - another dollop won't make it smell any worse.....
He deals with twitter, posts things like that pvp blog entry, works on copy for other upcoming blogs, probably has meetings... Look, clearly, to Cryptic, this isn't a drop-everything priority. I'm not going to argue whether *I* think it should or shouldn't be (I've already made my feelings clear, I think) - but if they're not jumping on this as a company, I don't think we can expect Strumslinger to jump on it on his own when he has whatever work he already had planned for today to get done.
Do you have a job? What if you got to work and someone without any actual authority over your work told you to stop doing your job and do this other person's job - but oh, wait, you still have to get all your normal work done as well. When you ask your boss about it, your boss basically says not to pay any attention to that person or, at least, don't do anything other than what you're supposed to normally do until your boss tells you otherwise. What would you do? Disobey your boss and do both jobs, or do your actual job as instructed? It's not Strumslinger we should be upset with - it's Cryptic as a whole. Yes, the irony that strum IS part of Cryptic as a whole isn't lost on me... but as I've LONG said, the problem is with Cryptic's systemic (mis)management that's the root cause of all the issues, not any one individual.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they never brought it back up. The Neverwinter team at Cryptic seems to be running on a skeleton crew as it is, just enough staff to keep rehashing old content into "new" content. Like someone else said on earlier in the thread, it's waaaayyyy down on the priority list.
He deals with twitter, posts things like that pvp blog entry, works on copy for other upcoming blogs, probably has meetings... Look, clearly, to Cryptic, this isn't a drop-everything priority. I'm not going to argue whether *I* think it should or shouldn't be (I've already made my feelings clear, I think) - but if they're not jumping on this as a company, I don't think we can expect Strumslinger to jump on it on his own when he has whatever work he already had planned for today to get done.
Do you have a job? What if you got to work and someone without any actual authority over your work told you to stop doing your job and do this other person's job - but oh, wait, you still have to get all your normal work done as well.
This reminds me of that Meme of a road with the newly painted divider down the middle going over a dead possum stating that it's somebody else's job.
Seriously though, he posts every week about the various maintenance and patches, I don't think it's a stretch to consider this part of his job. Either the gateway is under maintenance or it's not.
He deals with twitter, posts things like that pvp blog entry, works on copy for other upcoming blogs, probably has meetings... Look, clearly, to Cryptic, this isn't a drop-everything priority. I'm not going to argue whether *I* think it should or shouldn't be (I've already made my feelings clear, I think) - but if they're not jumping on this as a company, I don't think we can expect Strumslinger to jump on it on his own when he has whatever work he already had planned for today to get done.
Do you have a job? What if you got to work and someone without any actual authority over your work told you to stop doing your job and do this other person's job - but oh, wait, you still have to get all your normal work done as well.
This reminds me of that Meme of a road with the newly painted divider down the middle going over a dead possum stating that it's somebody else's job.
Seriously though, he posts every week about the various maintenance and patches, I don't think it's a stretch to consider this part of his job. Either the gateway is under maintenance or it's not.
Isn't it obvious, why does he need to state the obvious? On a serious note, I am willing to bet there has been a serious security breach which is why it is taking so long!
LOL! It's 7:35 AM on the East Coast in the US. So like 4:35 AM in California. Pretty sure the devs are all still asleep. Please wait 12 hours before complaining.
D@mn, only 3:30pm EST. I can't complain for another 4 hours. :P
So, it has been 3 hours since @kreatyve said it should take 2 - 3 more hours for someone to make a statement. Does this game really need another foundry?
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
So, it has been 3 hours since @kreatyve said it should take 2 - 3 more hours for someone to make a statement. Does this game really need another foundry?
I haven't been able to get in touch with him, not sure if he's really busy, in a lot of meetings, or what. Usually I have talked to him before now, maybe he won't be back in until tomorrow. Not sure.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
So, it has been 3 hours since @kreatyve said it should take 2 - 3 more hours for someone to make a statement. Does this game really need another foundry?
I haven't been able to get in touch with him, not sure if he's really busy, in a lot of meetings, or what. Usually I have talked to him before now, maybe he won't be back in until tomorrow. Not sure.
I imagine that the reason they took gateway down must have to be resolved before they open it back up. Hopefully now that they are back into a work week they will address the issue.
Wow, really? Nothing. Apparently since Gateway is for PC only(I hear) not considered a service but bonus?
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
So.. Andy isn't back yet. He won't be back until tomorrow. Still trying to get some solid information, but with him on a plane at the moment, it's kinda hard.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
@kreatyve - thanks for trying to keep on top of this.
Doesn't it seem a little peculiar that there's no one else at Cryptic who could hop on the forum and post a simple message about the Gateway being down? Just one paragraph acknowledging the issue and giving us a few sentences about what's going on and when they expect to have it back online? Doesn't feel to me like that's too much to ask.
@kreatyve - thanks for trying to keep on top of this.
Doesn't it seem a little peculiar that there's no one else at Cryptic who could hop on the forum and post a simple message about the Gateway being down? Just one paragraph acknowledging the issue and giving us a few sentences about what's going on and when they expect to have it back online? Doesn't feel to me like that's too much to ask.
Devs are generally busy doing dev things, but I will see what I can do.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I have had a Ticket open since just before the gateway went down. this is their reply today: "Hello,
Thank you for the update.
Unfortunately, we cannot provide any specific information or timeline on when the Gateway will be available, however what we can only confirm is a fix already being conducted. We highly suggest to keep on checking the forums for any news and updates.
Should you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us."
Devs are generally busy doing dev things, but I will see what I can do.
I suppose so - but at my job if some component of the production environment my team operates goes down, regardless of what things I'm doing, I'm also expected to send out appropriate notifications as well as provide some sort of estimate on when it might be fixed. If the outage is planned, I'm expected to have provided notification in advance. If I can't (or, since I'm the boss, don't want to) do it myself, I can designate someone else in my area to do it for me, and if I'm unavailable for some reason, there's at least two other people that will take care of it. If appropriate notifications are not given, I would end up getting my backside chewed for inadequate communication. Mind you, I probably won't be the one actually fixing anything - I have other things to do. But in the event of an outage, there are basic communication steps that need to be covered, regardless of whether your normal comms guy is there or not.
No one is asking for a detailed RCA here - we just want to see that Cryptic is has acknowledged the problem, know whether it was an unexpected failure or if they took it down on purpose, and when we can expect it to be back online.
There is a part of the game, that part is broken. Even if the devs are doing dev stuff, taking care of that broken part has to be part of that "dev stuff", especially after this issue has been around for days, even if it has been a holiday weekend. The players didn't just stop playing the game during that time.
Now since they MUST know about this by now, how hard can it be for someone who actually knows about stuff to make one simple statement on the matter? Writing that up and posting it would take what, 5 minutes? Not something that would break the flow of "doing dev stuff" in any way.
0
erosennin92Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 38Arc User
I really hope they will bring gateway up soon, as a guild Officer I control the inactive accounts from gateway in order to keep free spots in our guild and contact/unguild long inactive ones. I cannot do it know and being 150/150 full accounts atm has caused various issues over the weekend, having people waiting in queue because I am unable to check accounts activity. Those data can be found easily only in the gateway as far as I know and are a significant part of every guild's daily organisation.
Azeroth Godwill - (Half)Drow - Virtuous AC DC - iLvL 4k
Comments
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
There's TONS of cool things we could do - automation of professions totally aside. Just the QoL possibilities for guild leaders alone would be awesome.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
It's 10:30 PDT and he still hasn't logged in? He sure seems to be on top of things.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Do you have a job? What if you got to work and someone without any actual authority over your work told you to stop doing your job and do this other person's job - but oh, wait, you still have to get all your normal work done as well. When you ask your boss about it, your boss basically says not to pay any attention to that person or, at least, don't do anything other than what you're supposed to normally do until your boss tells you otherwise. What would you do? Disobey your boss and do both jobs, or do your actual job as instructed? It's not Strumslinger we should be upset with - it's Cryptic as a whole. Yes, the irony that strum IS part of Cryptic as a whole isn't lost on me... but as I've LONG said, the problem is with Cryptic's systemic (mis)management that's the root cause of all the issues, not any one individual.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Click banner for the Dragon Dogs Family guild page.
Seriously though, he posts every week about the various maintenance and patches, I don't think it's a stretch to consider this part of his job. Either the gateway is under maintenance or it's not.
game - Human/real life - ???
OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
Murphster - SS CW | Jennsen Rahl - MoF CW
Taarna - GWF
Eowyn - Protector OP | Leela - Devoted OP
Mara Jade - TR
Leeloo - Tempt SW | Kahlan Amnell - Fury SW | Galadriel - Damnation SW
Sturm Nightblade - GF
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Doesn't it seem a little peculiar that there's no one else at Cryptic who could hop on the forum and post a simple message about the Gateway being down? Just one paragraph acknowledging the issue and giving us a few sentences about what's going on and when they expect to have it back online? Doesn't feel to me like that's too much to ask.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
"Hello,
Thank you for the update.
Unfortunately, we cannot provide any specific information or timeline on when the Gateway will be available, however what we can only confirm is a fix already being conducted. We highly suggest to keep on checking the forums for any news and updates.
Should you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us."
No one is asking for a detailed RCA here - we just want to see that Cryptic is has acknowledged the problem, know whether it was an unexpected failure or if they took it down on purpose, and when we can expect it to be back online.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Now since they MUST know about this by now, how hard can it be for someone who actually knows about stuff to make one simple statement on the matter? Writing that up and posting it would take what, 5 minutes? Not something that would break the flow of "doing dev stuff" in any way.
I cannot do it know and being 150/150 full accounts atm has caused various issues over the weekend, having people waiting in queue because I am unable to check accounts activity. Those data can be found easily only in the gateway as far as I know and are a significant part of every guild's daily organisation.
Azeroth Godwill - (Half)Drow - Virtuous AC DC - iLvL 4k