Make an shop for new seals where you can trade the seals (you get them in FBI) for rewarding stuff like epic mounts, epic companions, artifacts etc. or even some unique stuff like the old T2 sets or just fashion. The same thing you did with the seals of the protector. All in all the lootable should be more than just salvage the loot and getting AD.
Add Underdark +5 rings to that, even for a ridiculously high amount of seals. We need finally some reliable way to get them :C
underdark rings should come from underdark content. if i can run FBI and get them guaranteed after enough runs i am never doing edemo or CN again unless it is for fun. Make the rings cost 20k demonic ichor (mod 10 has removed to 400 per week earning cap) and put them in a shop and make the rings BoA but bind to character when they are equipped. That is fair i think to make the +5 rings that drop 'better' in that they stay moveable between characters
There is not just a cap on how many ichor you can earn, there is a cap on how many you are able to own. We can only hold 1200 ichor at one time.
I am all for removing seals and ichor caps completely to make way for a shop where very rare things can be bought for a large amount of them.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Even tho an important thread, it isnt getting too much opinions, maybe because its all said here in a nut shell already in these few posts, dont get me wrong, hopefully we get lots of more suggestions on how to make FBI worth running but, the baseline loot is already pointed out pretty much here.
and yeah, the "a chance to have..." im not happy with this. Somewhere a few mods ago, totally kittened dungeon runs, yes, there were issues, but instead of bringing us back the old dungs and the thrill of the chase, theyre killed and left us chances and basicly "skirmishes".
I loved, seriously loved to run SC and DV and all the dungs for guaranteed epic loot+a chance<<<<<<<<. And the atmosphere was also good.
It took us a better half of an hour to run all those, sometimes even longer and all that strategy talk and wipes and boasts of "now were gonna kill it" and the thrill of the completion and the wait for a set piece u need or if someone else got pcs to get his/hers full set or a piece of it, all gone...
Im still tending my toons, cos im hoping that this stuff is gonna come back again somehow.
Hopefully we get a good MOD on the 16th, and the class balances play out.
Signing out until 16th, good luck in MOD 10.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited August 2016
Would like to see purple campaign currency SH vouchers. Addition of shards of all types like Heroic, Conquerors etc...
And regardless, as was said, undedark & this campaign currency should be donateable or exchangeable for donateable stuff.
I fully agree with @micky1p00. SH progress is what determines a very large part of my gaming schedule. The Siege of Neverwinter is the best example that people will farm endlessly for their SHs. Add to the "usual" chance at loot a guaranteed purple campaign voucher and I'll run this as much as I possibly can!
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited August 2016
Feedback - high-end challenge requires high-end rewards (copypasta'd from other thread but then modified) The things players want in order to keep improving their characters are costly. Back again to the need to treat the game as an AD vending machine, because the game dictates that you need millions of ADs in order to continue seeing personal improvements. At the same time, improving the SH continues to dictate the activity of many players (because we still usually can't get Influence at the same time as doing anything else remotely productive).
Things needed/wanted: Wards (both Pres and Coal) Marks of Potency (Greater/Superior) Companion Upgrade Tokens (pack of 15 because the upgrade costs are all multiples of 15, either unbound or account-bound) Cubes of Augmentation (cheaper than they were because of lockboxes and events but still unacceptably expensive if you gear multiple characters) Epic Reinforcement Kits/Jewels (unless y'all finally reconsider the AD cost on these) Epic Insignias Mounts (thought here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many) Bonding runestones (lol) Epic stronghold vouchers or other SH donation items (not just 10 shards from the "run FBI" cleric quest I assume will be added)
Just some thoughts on items players would likely be happier to see than R8 gems.
Thank you all for your continued feedback on this thread, it's extremely helpful! As some of you have pointed out, the bosses were not dropping loot, I want to reiterate that this was a known issue and that we turned on Fangbreaker on preview knowing this because we wanted the valuable feedback on the dungeon itself sooner rather than later.
Bosses will drop loot including armor which can be salvaged. As I mentioned before, we have no intention of Fangbreaker being inferior to Castle Never in regards to a rewards-to-time ratio. We'll continue to work towards the goal of making Fangbreaker loot match the difficulty as we make adjustments to the length and difficulty of the dungeon. Keep providing that valuable feedback even after Fangbreaker is live.
cromejohnsenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 207Arc User
Right now it takes about 30 minutes to finish the dungeon (before health upgrade) with a good group and the right composition. Thats approximately 3 Cn runs with the same group. So even if you double the rewards inside the right chest of FBI, its still not going to be worth it to run. Feedback: We need guaranteed chance of worthwhile rewards.
Feedback: Just a small, but necessary improwement Add Dread enchantment shards to loot table with high chance. This enchantment exists in two modules and there is still no way to get it by farming ingame content.
Will removed non set items be added to the loot tables at some point in the future?
Examples: Armor of Lolth Firegiant Coronet Psionic Shards Stormcaller Tunic
So many unique armor looks have been removed from the game, any chance we will see these coming back? I know you've reintroduced old armor set looks that are no longer available, but it would be nice to get these non set pieces back as well.
Asterdahl has spoken and everyone's feedback appears to have fallen on deaf ears. All they plan to do is make sure some crappy salvageable armor is added to bosses that currently aren't dropping loot... Something they already planned to fix, as it was a known issue.
Bosses will drop loot including armor which can be salvaged. As I mentioned before, we have no intention of Fangbreaker being inferior to Castle Never in regards to a rewards-to-time ratio..
If the only useful thing you're dropping in the dungeon is *maybe* armor for salvage how is that going to help players feel rewarded? There isn't any other dungeon that doesn't offer the same thing and nothing else for much less time/effort.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Asterdahl has spoken and everyone's feedback appears to have fallen on deaf ears. All they plan to do is make sure some crappy salvageable armor is added to bosses that currently aren't dropping loot... Something they already planned to fix, as it was a known issue.
Grats on that rare r8!
Nobody was running FBI anyway, it's too deep in the campain progress so only after 1 month or so we would see a reasonable amount of people avaliable.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Asterdahl has spoken and everyone's feedback appears to have fallen on deaf ears. All they plan to do is make sure some crappy salvageable armor is added to bosses that currently aren't dropping loot... Something they already planned to fix, as it was a known issue.
Grats on that rare r8!
Nobody was running FBI anyway, it's too deep in the campain progress so only after 1 month or so we would see a reasonable amount of people avaliable.
Ummm, @treesclimber there is a campaign unlock on preview, so anyone can run it.
Feedback: @asterdahl We console only players have very little say in content/development. FBI could be used to give us some love. Please add "of the Loyal" or some other 2 slot companion only gear to the drop tables, It could even be Bind to Account
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
You could also addd BoE armor reinforcement kits if you don't want to lower the ad cost on those.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Asterdahl has spoken and everyone's feedback appears to have fallen on deaf ears. All they plan to do is make sure some crappy salvageable armor is added to bosses that currently aren't dropping loot... Something they already planned to fix, as it was a known issue.
Grats on that rare r8!
Nobody was running FBI anyway, it's too deep in the campain progress so only after 1 month or so we would see a reasonable amount of people avaliable.
Ummm, @treesclimber there is a campaign unlock on preview, so anyone can run it.
The "was" was intended to sound loe "is going to be". Like when somebody says "i wasn't going anyway".
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Feedback: We console only players have very little say in content/development. FBI could be used to give us some love. Please add "of the Loyal" or some other 2 slot companion only gear to the drop tables, It could even be Bind to Account
This isn't a terrible idea. Their usefulness has not gone away and having them only on one platform at this point is really unfair. Consoles have had to cobble together their companion outfits from crafted gear, the excessively gated Adorable items*, and the fairly garbagy random SH drops.
People who only do SCA and never run dungeons might not like it, but they have had their exclusive access for a long time.
*Companion equipment alternatives to Loyal, like Legendary profession tools, only provide the illusion of availability. They exist, but for most players, they might as well not and should be ignored as far as a "well you could use X" option.
The gear quality is far too low too be considered worth running.
Make Gear from Dungeon BoE, Add some incentive too continue too farm it.
Give Changes at other Epic / Legendary Loot, Epic Artifact neck/belts would be a welcome addition, even if you just used it for Refinement of your own ones.
Epic Mount would be nice also.
Rank 9's Should be possible to get.
Personally I think adding a low chance for a bound coal ward / Bound Pres wards would also make the dungeon very attractive too people (WOW, a way too get them OTHER than ZEN/Invoke spamming)
Lesser Weapon enchants low chance too drop.
Remove all the green/grey trash, an Epic dungeon should drop High quality loot all throughout. Even just adding aquamarines/sapphires/black opal drops would be awesome, because then even if you dont get some of the better stuff, at least you've got a bunch of refinement from killing all the trash mobs.
Another thing you could add is those Artisan profession packs / legendary tools. There are FAR too little legendary tools out there at the moment.
I also Agree With basically all of Beckylunatics points in the below post that I didnt mention.
beckylunatic said:Feedback - high-end challenge requires high-end rewards (copypasta'd from other thread but then modified) The things players want in order to keep improving their characters are costly. Back again to the need to treat the game as an AD vending machine, because the game dictates that you need millions of ADs in order to continue seeing personal improvements. At the same time, improving the SH continues to dictate the activity of many players (because we still usually can't get Influence at the same time as doing anything else remotely productive).
Things needed/wanted: Wards (both Pres and Coal) Marks of Potency (Greater/Superior) Companion Upgrade Tokens (pack of 15 because the upgrade costs are all multiples of 15, either unbound or account-bound) Cubes of Augmentation (cheaper than they were because of lockboxes and events but still unacceptably expensive if you gear multiple characters) Epic Reinforcement Kits/Jewels (unless y'all finally reconsider the AD cost on these) Epic Insignias Mounts (thought here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many) Bonding runestones (lol) Epic stronghold vouchers or other SH donation items (not just 10 shards from the "run FBI" cleric quest I assume will be added)
Just some thoughts on items players would likely be happier to see than R8 gems.
The Mount speed token would be a GREAT addition, even if its an extremely low chance,
I don't get the whole "rank 8s is kind of insulting", you can use them to make rank 10s. They sell for 20-50k they're still worth getting. You can be 3.1k and still need rank 8s. Rank 9s would have to be pretty rare drop to not trivialize progression.
Similarly the problem with adding GMoPs, wards etc. is that they need to keep supply low enough that it doesn't it make the AH the sole purveyor of those items. They need to add items where the AH is already the primary source. On that note I agree with this one:
(I already have a set of r12s before anyone says anything)
The supply of bonding runestones is too low and needs a boost. IMO adding lesser bonding runestones as a rare drop would be a step in the right direction like adding r8s to CN was.
The problem with this is that it would affect lockboxes. I'd like to see it because IMO epic insignias are in a position like armor reinforcement kits are. They provide a marginal benefit gated behind excessive cost. Most people I know are using uncommon/rare insignias that don't even necessarily have good stats for the toon. Cryptic has overestimated the importance they'd have and continuing to put them in lockboxes just makes them an unnecessary luxury for most players.
While it is true that Fangbreaker will be the most difficult content at the time of release, keep in mind that this is still content that you will be able to run repeatedly and that after mastering the mechanics won't necessarily take an extraordinary amount of time. We're still working out the exact rewards as more data comes back from playthroughs. Your continued playthroughs and feedback are invaluable.
If it turns out completing Fangbreaker on average is about three times as long as Castle Never, we will be working to ensure the rewards match that relationship. We'll be tweaking Fangbreaker to ensure that it is notably rewarding for content of its length and difficulty. Please keep in mind though that we will not be dramatically changing the scale of rewards over previous dungeons. While we've worked hard to make sure that Fangbreaker provides new and interesting challenges, and worked to implement boss fights that require coordination, this is still an epic dungeon.
We know that the rewards for every piece of content have not always been commensurate with the effort or time required. We're working hard to make sure that happens less and less often and rectify it when it does.
People running this dungeon are already decked out. People will be using rank 9s/10s for this dungeon. Rank 8s as a reward is kinda insulting.
As Urabask pointed out, when you receive an enchant, it's primarily meant to serve as refinement for your current enchantments or at worst, an item to be sold to others and that money converted into whatever you currently need in order to advance. Giving out an enchantment strong enough to be equipped immediately at any noteworthy interval would collapse the market.
Simply put, this is the way the enchantment system in Neverwinter works. This is not particularly unique to Neverwinter, in many games—MMORPG and otherwise—once you've begun to invest in a gem or equivalent socket-able item system, generally you aren't liable to pick one up that will serve as an outright replacement. In fact, it would be almost discouraging to level one up if you were likely to earn an outright replacement.
Equipment on the other hand, is replaced outright, and Fangbreaker will absolutely include new, worthwhile equipment. The relic armor in Fangbreaker should offer a number of new best in slot pieces for many classes. When fully charged, relic armor is item level 150, edging out masterwork and dragonflight.
When you think about whether a rank 8 enchant feels good or not, obviously there are other factors playing into that feeling. How long did the dungeon take? How hard was it? Out of your runs, how often did you see a rank 8? When choosing what to reward, we could of course give out a smaller enchant more often, or a larger enchant less often.
The same concept applies to equipment progression. In the Underdark, equipment progression was primarily earning demonic ichor. There was a steady reward there, you knew how long it would take to progress. With the new relic armor set, there's an element of predictability to some of the components you'll need to restore your armor, but then there's the base piece, and you'll need to obtain that drop from Fangbreaker.
Obviously, when you get a piece of loot that you've been hunting after, there's a feeling of exhilaration. On the other hand, when you are steadily earning what you need to get that piece you've been wanting, there's a contentedness with knowing you're on track. Neither system is perfect, and opinions on which system is superior will vary from adventurer to adventurer.
We'll continue to attempt to strike a balance between the two.
I also want to address briefly some concerns that have been expressed in regards to the new equipment. We currently have no plans to produce a number of similarly-powered sets that must all be kept alongside one another to deal with different encounters. Currently we don't have the systems in place to support this and we know that switching between and maintaining multiple sets is incredibly inconvenient. While I can't talk about our plans post-Storm King's Thunder, it was pointed out in another thread that if this is the case, what about set bonuses like those anti-Demogorgon set bonuses on drowcraft armor?
When we re-approached set bonuses we wanted something that could still feel meaningful without having the sort of gamebreaking impact that a lot of the old set bonuses had. Tying set bonuses into current content was a good solution, however, as adventurers move on to new sets they may not want to lose those valuable advantages against old content. We understand that and we're looking into adjustments to help ease the situation.
DEVs, you really should turn back to hard content with BoE rewards. Take CN back in mod 2 for example.
Since bind on equipment armor is such a popular suggestion I want to take some time to address this particular topic. Bind on equip armor dropping directly from dungeons has not been a part of Neverwinter since the level cap increase and we have no current plans to reintroduce it, I want to talk about why we made that decision. Forgive me for the length of this explanation.
There are a number of sources of power in the game right now that one can buy off the auction house. Equipment (namely those pieces which are displayed on your character) is an area that we would like to represent your own personal achievement. When you see an adventurer in relic armor, we want you to know that they personally completed Fangbreaker Island. When you see an adventurer in dragonflight armor, we want you to know that they worked hard with their guild to down the dragonflight.
The reasons for this extend beyond simply preserving these slots as a status symbol. We want these slots to represent an area that can drive you forward to obtain something truly epic that you can use immediately upon obtaining it, and that in most cases, it's always going to be better than what you could've bought on the auction house, without having to upgrade it. We want you to run Fangbreaker to get the loot from Fangbreaker.
That's not to say that bind on equip armor does not have a place in Neverwinter. We introduced masterwork equipment to help fill this gap. Before masterwork, professions were in a sad state in terms of tangible, non-consumable items they could create. Mastework did not solve everything, and to be clear we don't intend to only introduce new recipes through the masterwork system. However, we are quite satisfied with how well masterwork items have continued to maintain their value. Not only have these items maintained their value but their value is entirely tied up in the work of numerous players who collaborated, directly or through the auction house to bring those items to market.
Any direct equipment drops would compete heavily with this market and the drop rates would need to be abysmally low not to crash that market. We want those who have chosen to place a lot of emphasis on professions to have a place in Neverwinter. It's worth noting that this market is not merely represented by those that have invested heavily enough to have obtained masterwork recipe books themselves, but also those that provide materials.
Of course, we also introduced the dusk set with Underdark, and now the frostborn and warborn sets with Module 10. We want to give players an option to quickly gear up so that they can play with their friends, but we don't want those options to represent the best available equipment.
Hopefully this gives a bit of background into why we have continued to not include bind on equip armor in dungeons. That being said, we understand the sentiment that it would be great to see exciting drops that can be sold on the auction house for large sums. This is an attractive area from a design perspective as well, as items like this have a high value early on and naturally lose value as the supply increases.
There are some issues, such as that drop rates for those sort of items that felt reasonable as party rollable loot tend to feel too low when split among 5 individual players' loot rolls. On the other hand, there's potential for abuse with rollable loot. That being said, we've not given up on including valuable items that can be sold. We're continuing to examine possibilities moving forward.
As Urabask pointed out, when you receive an enchant, it's primarily meant to serve as refinement for your current enchantments or at worst, an item to be sold to others and that money converted into whatever you currently need in order to advance. Giving out an enchantment strong enough to be equipped immediately at any noteworthy interval would collapse the market.
Simply put, this is the way the enchantment system in Neverwinter works. This is not particularly unique to Neverwinter, in many games—MMORPG and otherwise—once you've begun to invest in a gem or equivalent socket-able item system, generally you aren't liable to pick one up that will serve as an outright replacement. In fact, it would be almost discouraging to level one up if you were likely to earn an outright replacement.
What is the estimated gameplay to achieve all rank 12 enchantments through upgrades?
Hopefully this gives a bit of background into why we have continued to not include bind on equip armor in dungeons. That being said, we understand the sentiment that it would be great to see exciting drops that can be sold on the auction house for large sums. This is an attractive area from a design perspective as well, as items like this have a high value early on and naturally lose value as the supply increases.
Do you have an estimate projection gameplay for a player to grind for +5 underdark rings by repeatedly doing an appropriate dungeon/skirmish to farm until at least one +5 ring finally drops?
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
While it is true that Fangbreaker will be the most difficult content at the time of release, keep in mind that this is still content that you will be able to run repeatedly and that after mastering the mechanics won't necessarily take an extraordinary amount of time. We're still working out the exact rewards as more data comes back from playthroughs. Your continued playthroughs and feedback are invaluable.
If it turns out completing Fangbreaker on average is about three times as long as Castle Never, we will be working to ensure the rewards match that relationship. We'll be tweaking Fangbreaker to ensure that it is notably rewarding for content of its length and difficulty. Please keep in mind though that we will not be dramatically changing the scale of rewards over previous dungeons. While we've worked hard to make sure that Fangbreaker provides new and interesting challenges, and worked to implement boss fights that require coordination, this is still an epic dungeon.
We know that the rewards for every piece of content have not always been commensurate with the effort or time required. We're working hard to make sure that happens less and less often and rectify it when it does.
People running this dungeon are already decked out. People will be using rank 9s/10s for this dungeon. Rank 8s as a reward is kinda insulting.
As Urabask pointed out, when you receive an enchant, it's primarily meant to serve as refinement for your current enchantments or at worst, an item to be sold to others and that money converted into whatever you currently need in order to advance. Giving out an enchantment strong enough to be equipped immediately at any noteworthy interval would collapse the market.
Simply put, this is the way the enchantment system in Neverwinter works. This is not particularly unique to Neverwinter, in many games—MMORPG and otherwise—once you've begun to invest in a gem or equivalent socket-able item system, generally you aren't liable to pick one up that will serve as an outright replacement. In fact, it would be almost discouraging to level one up if you were likely to earn an outright replacement.
Equipment on the other hand, is replaced outright, and Fangbreaker will absolutely include new, worthwhile equipment. The relic armor in Fangbreaker should offer a number of new best in slot pieces for many classes. When fully charged, relic armor is item level 150, edging out masterwork and dragonflight.
When you think about whether a rank 8 enchant feels good or not, obviously there are other factors playing into that feeling. How long did the dungeon take? How hard was it? Out of your runs, how often did you see a rank 8? When choosing what to reward, we could of course give out a smaller enchant more often, or a larger enchant less often.
The same concept applies to equipment progression. In the Underdark, equipment progression was primarily earning demonic ichor. There was a steady reward there, you knew how long it would take to progress. With the new relic armor set, there's an element of predictability to some of the components you'll need to restore your armor, but then there's the base piece, and you'll need to obtain that drop from Fangbreaker.
Obviously, when you get a piece of loot that you've been hunting after, there's a feeling of exhilaration. On the other hand, when you are steadily earning what you need to get that piece you've been wanting, there's a contentedness with knowing you're on track. Neither system is perfect, and opinions on which system is superior will vary from adventurer to adventurer.
We'll continue to attempt to strike a balance between the two.
I also want to address briefly some concerns that have been expressed in regards to the new equipment. We currently have no plans to produce a number of similarly-powered sets that must all be kept alongside one another to deal with different encounters. Currently we don't have the systems in place to support this and we know that switching between and maintaining multiple sets is incredibly inconvenient. While I can't talk about our plans post-Storm King's Thunder, it was pointed out in another thread that if this is the case, what about set bonuses like those anti-Demogorgon set bonuses on drowcraft armor?
When we re-approached set bonuses we wanted something that could still feel meaningful without having the sort of gamebreaking impact that a lot of the old set bonuses had. Tying set bonuses into current content was a good solution, however, as adventurers move on to new sets they may not want to lose those valuable advantages against old content. We understand that and we're looking into adjustments to help ease the situation.
DEVs, you really should turn back to hard content with BoE rewards. Take CN back in mod 2 for example.
Since bind on equipment armor is such a popular suggestion I want to take some time to address this particular topic. Bind on equip armor dropping directly from dungeons has not been a part of Neverwinter since the level cap increase and we have no current plans to reintroduce it, I want to talk about why we made that decision. Forgive me for the length of this explanation.
There are a number of sources of power in the game right now that one can buy off the auction house. Equipment (namely those pieces which are displayed on your character) is an area that we would like to represent your own personal achievement. When you see an adventurer in relic armor, we want you to know that they personally completed Fangbreaker Island. When you see an adventurer in dragonflight armor, we want you to know that they worked hard with their guild to down the dragonflight.
The reasons for this extend beyond simply preserving these slots as a status symbol. We want these slots to represent an area that can drive you forward to obtain something truly epic that you can use immediately upon obtaining it, and that in most cases, it's always going to be better than what you could've bought on the auction house, without having to upgrade it. We want you to run Fangbreaker to get the loot from Fangbreaker.
That's not to say that bind on equip armor does not have a place in Neverwinter. We introduced masterwork equipment to help fill this gap. Before masterwork, professions were in a sad state in terms of tangible, non-consumable items they could create. Mastework did not solve everything, and to be clear we don't intend to only introduce new recipes through the masterwork system. However, we are quite satisfied with how well masterwork items have continued to maintain their value. Not only have these items maintained their value but their value is entirely tied up in the work of numerous players who collaborated, directly or through the auction house to bring those items to market.
Any direct equipment drops would compete heavily with this market and the drop rates would need to be abysmally low not to crash that market. We want those who have chosen to place a lot of emphasis on professions to have a place in Neverwinter. It's worth noting that this market is not merely represented by those that have invested heavily enough to have obtained masterwork recipe books themselves, but also those that provide materials.
Of course, we also introduced the dusk set with Underdark, and now the frostborn and warborn sets with Module 10. We want to give players an option to quickly gear up so that they can play with their friends, but we don't want those options to represent the best available equipment.
Hopefully this gives a bit of background into why we have continued to not include bind on equip armor in dungeons. That being said, we understand the sentiment that it would be great to see exciting drops that can be sold on the auction house for large sums. This is an attractive area from a design perspective as well, as items like this have a high value early on and naturally lose value as the supply increases.
There are some issues, such as that drop rates for those sort of items that felt reasonable as party rollable loot tend to feel too low when split among 5 individual players' loot rolls. On the other hand, there's potential for abuse with rollable loot. That being said, we've not given up on including valuable items that can be sold. We're continuing to examine possibilities moving forward.
@asterdahl forgive me for saying this, but for the most part, the gear for fangbreaker island is only BiS if you running fangbreaker island. I won't swap to a piece of gear unless it has both power and crit on it, for the most part, the gear on fangbreaker island has neither. Yes, it has higher item level, but I don't want the stats on that gear. This means that the gear rewards to me are largely irrelevant. As for the whole mechanics thing, from my run throughs of fangbreaker on preview, we were getting through the dungeon in 30-40 minutes. After the first boss, there is almost no time lost to anything. At the last boss, we were killing him before his mechanics even triggered. The only place we could save time is at the beach before Hati, we lost about 3-4 minutes in that section I would guess. The point is, we looking at a 25 minute run through here, for rewards that look like they came from CN. As for the enchantments you get being intended to refine your gear further, most people at 3.1k or higher are running with rank 10s. A chance at rank 9s and guaranteed rank 8s would maybe incentivize people to run it, but as it stands, once I have the 1 piece of gear that has power and crit on it, I don't see myself running fangbreaker any further.
Any direct equipment drops would compete heavily with this market and the drop rates would need to be abysmally low not to crash that market. We want those who have chosen to place a lot of emphasis on professions to have a place in Neverwinter. It's worth noting that this market is not merely represented by those that have invested heavily enough to have obtained masterwork recipe books themselves, but also those that provide materials.
This makes +5 rings sound like the perfect candidate for BoE drops. +4 rings in most cases already outright replace masterwork rings for most players anyways but the abysmal drop rate on +5 rings means most players don't bother grinding content for them. They're in a position where you don't assume the player earned it; you assume they got lucky. To me that sounds like the exact kind of item that should be BoE.
@asterdahl forgive me for saying this, but for the most part, the gear for fangbreaker island is only BiS if you running fangbreaker island. I won't swap to a piece of gear unless it has both power and crit on it, for the most part, the gear on fangbreaker island has neither. Yes, it has higher item level, but I don't want the stats on that gear. This means that the gear rewards to me are largely irrelevant. As for the whole mechanics thing, from my run throughs of fangbreaker on preview, we were getting through the dungeon in 30-40 minutes. After the first boss, there is almost no time lost to anything. At the last boss, we were killing him before his mechanics even triggered. The only place we could save time is at the beach before Hati, we lost about 3-4 minutes in that section I would guess. The point is, we looking at a 25 minute run through here, for rewards that look like they came from CN. As for the enchantments you get being intended to refine your gear further, most people at 3.1k or higher are running with rank 10s. A chance at rank 9s and guaranteed rank 8s would maybe incentivize people to run it, but as it stands, once I have the 1 piece of gear that has power and crit on it, I don't see myself running fangbreaker any further.
Guaranteed rank 8s crashes the price on rank 8s and suddenly you won't want them anymore. What you should want is an increase in guaranteed salvage. Dropping a guaranteed piece of salvage on each boss and a guaranteed two from each chest would already put it ahead of CN. IMO they should also have them all function like Orcus where he can drop an enchant, RP, and salvage. I mean lets say they all drop a blue/green piece of RP, a rank 7 enchant, and a piece of salvage; that would put it miles ahead of any other dungeon without really affecting the AH much.
Comments
I am all for removing seals and ichor caps completely to make way for a shop where very rare things can be bought for a large amount of them.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
and yeah, the "a chance to have..." im not happy with this. Somewhere a few mods ago, totally kittened dungeon runs, yes, there were issues, but instead of bringing us back the old dungs and the thrill of the chase, theyre killed and left us chances and basicly "skirmishes".
I loved, seriously loved to run SC and DV and all the dungs for guaranteed epic loot+ a chance<<<<<<<<. And the atmosphere was also good.
It took us a better half of an hour to run all those, sometimes even longer and all that strategy talk and wipes and boasts of "now were gonna kill it" and the thrill of the completion and the wait for a set piece u need or if someone else got pcs to get his/hers full set or a piece of it, all gone...
Im still tending my toons, cos im hoping that this stuff is gonna come back again somehow.
Hopefully we get a good MOD on the 16th, and the class balances play out.
Signing out until 16th, good luck in MOD 10.
Would like to see purple campaign currency SH vouchers.
Addition of shards of all types like Heroic, Conquerors etc...
And regardless, as was said, undedark & this campaign currency should be donateable or exchangeable for donateable stuff.
The things players want in order to keep improving their characters are costly. Back again to the need to treat the game as an AD vending machine, because the game dictates that you need millions of ADs in order to continue seeing personal improvements. At the same time, improving the SH continues to dictate the activity of many players (because we still usually can't get Influence at the same time as doing anything else remotely productive).
Things needed/wanted:
Wards (both Pres and Coal)
Marks of Potency (Greater/Superior)
Companion Upgrade Tokens (pack of 15 because the upgrade costs are all multiples of 15, either unbound or account-bound)
Cubes of Augmentation (cheaper than they were because of lockboxes and events but still unacceptably expensive if you gear multiple characters)
Epic Reinforcement Kits/Jewels (unless y'all finally reconsider the AD cost on these)
Epic Insignias
Mounts (thought here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many)
Bonding runestones (lol)
Epic stronghold vouchers or other SH donation items (not just 10 shards from the "run FBI" cleric quest I assume will be added)
Just some thoughts on items players would likely be happier to see than R8 gems.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Bosses will drop loot including armor which can be salvaged. As I mentioned before, we have no intention of Fangbreaker being inferior to Castle Never in regards to a rewards-to-time ratio. We'll continue to work towards the goal of making Fangbreaker loot match the difficulty as we make adjustments to the length and difficulty of the dungeon. Keep providing that valuable feedback even after Fangbreaker is live.
Feedback:
We need guaranteed chance of worthwhile rewards.
Feedback:
Just a small, but necessary improwement
Add Dread enchantment shards to loot table with high chance.
This enchantment exists in two modules and there is still no way to get it by farming ingame content.
How about adding Crag Cat mount as a possible chest drop? It's been in the game since mod3, yet it's unavailable anywhere.
Will removed non set items be added to the loot tables at some point in the future?
Examples:
Armor of Lolth
Firegiant Coronet
Psionic Shards
Stormcaller Tunic
So many unique armor looks have been removed from the game, any chance we will see these coming back? I know you've reintroduced old armor set looks that are no longer available, but it would be nice to get these non set pieces back as well.
Grats on that rare r8!
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
like this, sry that can't now screen this weapon from other side
@asterdahl We console only players have very little say in content/development. FBI could be used to give us some love.
Please add "of the Loyal" or some other 2 slot companion only gear to the drop tables, It could even be Bind to Account
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
People who only do SCA and never run dungeons might not like it, but they have had their exclusive access for a long time.
*Companion equipment alternatives to Loyal, like Legendary profession tools, only provide the illusion of availability. They exist, but for most players, they might as well not and should be ignored as far as a "well you could use X" option.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The gear quality is far too low too be considered worth running.
Make Gear from Dungeon BoE, Add some incentive too continue too farm it.
Give Changes at other Epic / Legendary Loot, Epic Artifact neck/belts would be a welcome addition, even if you just used it for Refinement of your own ones.
Epic Mount would be nice also.
Rank 9's Should be possible to get.
Personally I think adding a low chance for a bound coal ward / Bound Pres wards would also make the dungeon very attractive too people (WOW, a way too get them OTHER than ZEN/Invoke spamming)
Lesser Weapon enchants low chance too drop.
Remove all the green/grey trash, an Epic dungeon should drop High quality loot all throughout. Even just adding aquamarines/sapphires/black opal drops would be awesome, because then even if you dont get some of the better stuff, at least you've got a bunch of refinement from killing all the trash mobs.
Another thing you could add is those Artisan profession packs / legendary tools. There are FAR too little legendary tools out there at the moment.
I also Agree With basically all of Beckylunatics points in the below post that I didnt mention.
beckylunatic said:Feedback - high-end challenge requires high-end rewards (copypasta'd from other thread but then modified)
The things players want in order to keep improving their characters are costly. Back again to the need to treat the game as an AD vending machine, because the game dictates that you need millions of ADs in order to continue seeing personal improvements. At the same time, improving the SH continues to dictate the activity of many players (because we still usually can't get Influence at the same time as doing anything else remotely productive).
Things needed/wanted:
Wards (both Pres and Coal)
Marks of Potency (Greater/Superior)
Companion Upgrade Tokens (pack of 15 because the upgrade costs are all multiples of 15, either unbound or account-bound)
Cubes of Augmentation (cheaper than they were because of lockboxes and events but still unacceptably expensive if you gear multiple characters)
Epic Reinforcement Kits/Jewels (unless y'all finally reconsider the AD cost on these)
Epic Insignias
Mounts (thought here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many)
Bonding runestones (lol)
Epic stronghold vouchers or other SH donation items (not just 10 shards from the "run FBI" cleric quest I assume will be added)
Just some thoughts on items players would likely be happier to see than R8 gems.
The Mount speed token would be a GREAT addition, even if its an extremely low chance,
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
People running this dungeon are already decked out. People will be using rank 9s/10s for this dungeon. Rank 8s as a reward is kinda insulting.
Similarly the problem with adding GMoPs, wards etc. is that they need to keep supply low enough that it doesn't it make the AH the sole purveyor of those items. They need to add items where the AH is already the primary source. On that note I agree with this one: (I already have a set of r12s before anyone says anything)
The supply of bonding runestones is too low and needs a boost. IMO adding lesser bonding runestones as a rare drop would be a step in the right direction like adding r8s to CN was. The problem with this is that it would affect lockboxes. I'd like to see it because IMO epic insignias are in a position like armor reinforcement kits are. They provide a marginal benefit gated behind excessive cost. Most people I know are using uncommon/rare insignias that don't even necessarily have good stats for the toon. Cryptic has overestimated the importance they'd have and continuing to put them in lockboxes just makes them an unnecessary luxury for most players.
If it turns out completing Fangbreaker on average is about three times as long as Castle Never, we will be working to ensure the rewards match that relationship. We'll be tweaking Fangbreaker to ensure that it is notably rewarding for content of its length and difficulty. Please keep in mind though that we will not be dramatically changing the scale of rewards over previous dungeons. While we've worked hard to make sure that Fangbreaker provides new and interesting challenges, and worked to implement boss fights that require coordination, this is still an epic dungeon.
We know that the rewards for every piece of content have not always been commensurate with the effort or time required. We're working hard to make sure that happens less and less often and rectify it when it does. As Urabask pointed out, when you receive an enchant, it's primarily meant to serve as refinement for your current enchantments or at worst, an item to be sold to others and that money converted into whatever you currently need in order to advance. Giving out an enchantment strong enough to be equipped immediately at any noteworthy interval would collapse the market.
Simply put, this is the way the enchantment system in Neverwinter works. This is not particularly unique to Neverwinter, in many games—MMORPG and otherwise—once you've begun to invest in a gem or equivalent socket-able item system, generally you aren't liable to pick one up that will serve as an outright replacement. In fact, it would be almost discouraging to level one up if you were likely to earn an outright replacement.
Equipment on the other hand, is replaced outright, and Fangbreaker will absolutely include new, worthwhile equipment. The relic armor in Fangbreaker should offer a number of new best in slot pieces for many classes. When fully charged, relic armor is item level 150, edging out masterwork and dragonflight.
When you think about whether a rank 8 enchant feels good or not, obviously there are other factors playing into that feeling. How long did the dungeon take? How hard was it? Out of your runs, how often did you see a rank 8? When choosing what to reward, we could of course give out a smaller enchant more often, or a larger enchant less often.
The same concept applies to equipment progression. In the Underdark, equipment progression was primarily earning demonic ichor. There was a steady reward there, you knew how long it would take to progress. With the new relic armor set, there's an element of predictability to some of the components you'll need to restore your armor, but then there's the base piece, and you'll need to obtain that drop from Fangbreaker.
Obviously, when you get a piece of loot that you've been hunting after, there's a feeling of exhilaration. On the other hand, when you are steadily earning what you need to get that piece you've been wanting, there's a contentedness with knowing you're on track. Neither system is perfect, and opinions on which system is superior will vary from adventurer to adventurer.
We'll continue to attempt to strike a balance between the two.
I also want to address briefly some concerns that have been expressed in regards to the new equipment. We currently have no plans to produce a number of similarly-powered sets that must all be kept alongside one another to deal with different encounters. Currently we don't have the systems in place to support this and we know that switching between and maintaining multiple sets is incredibly inconvenient. While I can't talk about our plans post-Storm King's Thunder, it was pointed out in another thread that if this is the case, what about set bonuses like those anti-Demogorgon set bonuses on drowcraft armor?
When we re-approached set bonuses we wanted something that could still feel meaningful without having the sort of gamebreaking impact that a lot of the old set bonuses had. Tying set bonuses into current content was a good solution, however, as adventurers move on to new sets they may not want to lose those valuable advantages against old content. We understand that and we're looking into adjustments to help ease the situation. Since bind on equipment armor is such a popular suggestion I want to take some time to address this particular topic. Bind on equip armor dropping directly from dungeons has not been a part of Neverwinter since the level cap increase and we have no current plans to reintroduce it, I want to talk about why we made that decision. Forgive me for the length of this explanation.
There are a number of sources of power in the game right now that one can buy off the auction house. Equipment (namely those pieces which are displayed on your character) is an area that we would like to represent your own personal achievement. When you see an adventurer in relic armor, we want you to know that they personally completed Fangbreaker Island. When you see an adventurer in dragonflight armor, we want you to know that they worked hard with their guild to down the dragonflight.
The reasons for this extend beyond simply preserving these slots as a status symbol. We want these slots to represent an area that can drive you forward to obtain something truly epic that you can use immediately upon obtaining it, and that in most cases, it's always going to be better than what you could've bought on the auction house, without having to upgrade it. We want you to run Fangbreaker to get the loot from Fangbreaker.
That's not to say that bind on equip armor does not have a place in Neverwinter. We introduced masterwork equipment to help fill this gap. Before masterwork, professions were in a sad state in terms of tangible, non-consumable items they could create. Mastework did not solve everything, and to be clear we don't intend to only introduce new recipes through the masterwork system. However, we are quite satisfied with how well masterwork items have continued to maintain their value. Not only have these items maintained their value but their value is entirely tied up in the work of numerous players who collaborated, directly or through the auction house to bring those items to market.
Any direct equipment drops would compete heavily with this market and the drop rates would need to be abysmally low not to crash that market. We want those who have chosen to place a lot of emphasis on professions to have a place in Neverwinter. It's worth noting that this market is not merely represented by those that have invested heavily enough to have obtained masterwork recipe books themselves, but also those that provide materials.
Of course, we also introduced the dusk set with Underdark, and now the frostborn and warborn sets with Module 10. We want to give players an option to quickly gear up so that they can play with their friends, but we don't want those options to represent the best available equipment.
Hopefully this gives a bit of background into why we have continued to not include bind on equip armor in dungeons. That being said, we understand the sentiment that it would be great to see exciting drops that can be sold on the auction house for large sums. This is an attractive area from a design perspective as well, as items like this have a high value early on and naturally lose value as the supply increases.
There are some issues, such as that drop rates for those sort of items that felt reasonable as party rollable loot tend to feel too low when split among 5 individual players' loot rolls. On the other hand, there's potential for abuse with rollable loot. That being said, we've not given up on including valuable items that can be sold. We're continuing to examine possibilities moving forward.