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Official Feedback Thread: Scourge Warlock changes

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    pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    Feedback: No Pity, No Mercy (Hellbringer Class Feature)
    No Pity, No Mercy should rather remove the initial hit from Hellish Rebuke and boost the DoT component further. This would sync better with both the aspect of having HR as a secondary at-will to run while casting for example Hand of Blight, and it would work with the Gatekeeper's Empowerment feat.
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    fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    Bug: Borrowed time passive doesn't work (Doesn't heal when I have full sparks), tested with rank4 borrowed time.

    Video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnXKZdQR_B8


    Also HR dmg is nuts, SW dmg is trash, we need our base dmg to be increased not individual encounters that no one uses.

    That's a real problem @amenar, I hope you can fix it befoure launch.

    Edit: There're no sparks on the tray, so I think you just made it working 'HUD-based'. Which seem it was triggering from tray (like in 'Soul Scorch bug' video I posted here).
    I'm just downloading recent PTS but I believe it affects all spark-related buffs.


    Edit2: Rest of things seems to be working fine on first look, need to test it with ACT.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 196 Arc User
    Yeah, I can confirm that BT's healing doesn't seem to be working as intended atm (tested w/ both R3 and R4 BT).

    Rather, BT's healing seems to act like D2D's AP now: only giving you healing when soul sparks are removed.


    That can't be intended.
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
    - Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    That may be the reason, why my "borrowed time spends 11k healing ticks in WoD, gives a permanent 15%deflect, but doesn't spend any lifesteal nor does spark related lifesteal work like from Vampire Sparks...weard
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    treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    This is the dps data from my sw doing 2 air cult assaults and 1 sladdi HE, sladdi almost to the end:




    My point with this is eldricht blast is very weak, Hand of blight was used simply when i had 1 target only to hit, wich was probably 10% of the time look at the graphs and judge by yourself.

    Feedback eldricht blast:

    My sugestion make flames of empowrment stack on all targets hit by the secondary burst of eldricht blas and increase it's area significativelly.



    Feedback harrowstorm:
    Arrow storm animation isn't bad but activation on target it's really bad, it's so bad i can cast aiming a target, target another mob with my mouse and it will cast harrowstorm around the second target.


    And 2 bugs i found Infernal spheres and DT :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnrwkS5ohGk&amp;feature=youtu.be

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    schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    About DT and the buff that's running out immidiately I wrote 3 vor 4 pages ago.
    It seems to stack downwards the moment you hit less than 3 mobs...at least that's what's happening in WoD few days ago
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    fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    This is the dps data from my sw doing 2 air cult assaults and 1 sladdi HE, sladdi almost to the end:




    My point with this is eldricht blast is very weak, Hand of blight was used simply when i had 1 target only to hit, wich was probably 10% of the time look at the graphs and judge by yourself.

    Feedback eldricht blast:

    My sugestion make flames of empowrment stack on all targets hit by the secondary burst of eldricht blas and increase it's area significativelly.



    Feedback harrowstorm:
    Arrow storm animation isn't bad but activation on target it's really bad, it's so bad i can cast aiming a target, target another mob with my mouse and it will cast harrowstorm around the second target.


    And 2 bugs i found Infernal spheres and DT :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnrwkS5ohGk&amp;feature=youtu.be

    I won't comment rest as you stated it pretty well on video - pure mechanics bugs (I've one with Warlock Curse too - will upload tomorrow). But this ACT - you used it on same 3 dummies? Why the heck didn't you use TC? I know 'TC nerf' etc. but... :) Cheers!
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
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    candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    fernuu said:

    candinho2 said:

    I've tested both HB/SB, Borrowed Times is the same on live, no change at all, Hadar Grasp used to boost our damage for 15%, now it only apply to curses, so 15% more damage for lesser curse kkkk(doesn't affect WB), used to be for all powers, it also got a damage nerf. Infernal Spheres, it's useless regardless where you plan to use it, as it grant 25% dr for the first strike only, after 2,5 secs you are out of it and wasted a encounter power. in pvp it just need a dot to completely wipe your flying balls.
    Dust to Dust - why it was used anyway? Do you realy play warlock??? why it was used?? maybe to fill ap(80% ap)? Not everyone have mother's credit card to buy every mount/weapons in the game so we need to use what the game give to us.
    Dreadtheft. nerfed, no more damage buff after casting it or full stacks on a crit+all consuming...
    Immolation Sparks, gor nerfed(no more damage bonus from sparks) but got buffed(base damage increased) result=0 (+1-1=0)

    Watch some of my videos. I never used Dust to Dust and I'm quite perma AP, but yeah it's Sigil of Devoted+Flail Snail. But. Now as Soul Scorch generates AP too it will be useless.

    Dreadtheft - I agree, buff disappearing after cast is done isn't good. But it's still buffing party. And Crit+All Consuming will be fixed.

    Immolation Sparks - yeah, but it's no longer consuming sparks so you still have sparks damage buff and sparks survivability buff, also - they attack faster and generates more sparks so, so +1+1+0,5+0,5 and your -1=2
    It'll be useless bacause how sparks works now, or can you fill ap with just 5 SS? and for sparks gem, mobs need to be alive to get so how are you planing to do with GWF/CW killing everything long time before you can cast a atwill?
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    fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    candinho2 said:

    fernuu said:

    candinho2 said:

    I've tested both HB/SB, Borrowed Times is the same on live, no change at all, Hadar Grasp used to boost our damage for 15%, now it only apply to curses, so 15% more damage for lesser curse kkkk(doesn't affect WB), used to be for all powers, it also got a damage nerf. Infernal Spheres, it's useless regardless where you plan to use it, as it grant 25% dr for the first strike only, after 2,5 secs you are out of it and wasted a encounter power. in pvp it just need a dot to completely wipe your flying balls.
    Dust to Dust - why it was used anyway? Do you realy play warlock??? why it was used?? maybe to fill ap(80% ap)? Not everyone have mother's credit card to buy every mount/weapons in the game so we need to use what the game give to us.
    Dreadtheft. nerfed, no more damage buff after casting it or full stacks on a crit+all consuming...
    Immolation Sparks, gor nerfed(no more damage bonus from sparks) but got buffed(base damage increased) result=0 (+1-1=0)

    Watch some of my videos. I never used Dust to Dust and I'm quite perma AP, but yeah it's Sigil of Devoted+Flail Snail. But. Now as Soul Scorch generates AP too it will be useless.

    Dreadtheft - I agree, buff disappearing after cast is done isn't good. But it's still buffing party. And Crit+All Consuming will be fixed.

    Immolation Sparks - yeah, but it's no longer consuming sparks so you still have sparks damage buff and sparks survivability buff, also - they attack faster and generates more sparks so, so +1+1+0,5+0,5 and your -1=2
    It'll be useless bacause how sparks works now, or can you fill ap with just 5 SS? and for sparks gem, mobs need to be alive to get so how are you planing to do with GWF/CW killing everything long time before you can cast a atwill?
    You can fill it up with SS (and rest of encounters).

    Have you actually tried it on preview? Even in etos there's plenty time to land Soul Scorches, there's always some big mob to take 2-4 hits and some lesser mobs that can take >4 hits overall. And the weaker the party you can spam more.

    Keep in mind this is feedback topic on PTS server, <10 days before going live - it would be lovefull if you write some info about situation on PTS mostly after testing it and then, later, some new ideas.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
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    treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    hello @fernuu I didn't use dummies in the act I wanted a act with a real gameplay situation so I went to avia landing and did some HE's I didn't use TC because It wasn't worth, for example sladdi HE I dragged all 20 (they are 20 I think) Sladii so I could have a good value on the max eldricht could ever reach and kill them all at once, there is no way TC could ever beat 75k+ gates of hell. This was also the least bufed I could get, temptation, and no buffing encounters.

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    fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    @treesclimber sure, I got that... but TC is still go to, single target and groups for sure. FBI run below:



    @amenar - Also, I don't know how Murderous Flames is calcuated but it's underperforming now. It's no more than 18% of Killing Flames. Either make it real 30% of Killing Flames or rework it like Executioner's Gift.

    Even on screen shot above it's less effective than... Lesser Curse. Cheers!
    Post edited by fernuu on
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • Options
    treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    The thing with tc in situation I used is I only had same hp sladii so If I cursed one, not just the ods of hiting him with a ss would be small because I was surrounded by targets but also he would die very fast so using aoe's was definitively the best option here, I chose this situations similar to these because if eldricht blast wasn't good here it wouldn't be anywhere else. And don't forget you made act with a furylock a damnation or temptation would have different results.

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    fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 196 Arc User
    I'll try to do some mucking around w/ ACT parses and diff power setups for the SW (mostly looking at HB- still seems to be a bit behind atm) after I get some rest. I'm pretty curious how we are on the AoE front atm in general.
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
    - Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    tenetombtenetomb Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Bug : Fiery Bolt

    Visual FX displays twice. The first one when you cast the spell and the second one when you perform an other attack.

    Bug : Harrowstorm

    Spell cancelled when you spam other powers (if you don't wait the end of the cast).

    Harrowstorm is a really nice encounter. Good damages, big AP generation, aoe,... But is a real pain to cast.
    Please fix this and make the utilisation of this power smooth like the CW's Conduit of Ice is.


    Feedback : Tyrannical Curse

    I'm still using this power even after nerf because it's the most powerful daily of the SW.
    However, it's completely useless when the target gets insta-killed by your team mates.

    So i suggest to diminish its cast time.

    As SW's sprint is faster than before, it's the fastest class in the game.
    So, i think that if SW could cast TC fast enough to attack before party members arrive to the target, there shouldn't be any problem with target dying before SW could strike !

    Video of Fiery Bolt and Harrowstorm bugs:
    https://youtu.be/cBcPWul6umE
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    candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    fernuu said:

    candinho2 said:

    fernuu said:

    candinho2 said:

    I've tested both HB/SB, Borrowed Times is the same on live, no change at all, Hadar Grasp used to boost our damage for 15%, now it only apply to curses, so 15% more damage for lesser curse kkkk(doesn't affect WB), used to be for all powers, it also got a damage nerf. Infernal Spheres, it's useless regardless where you plan to use it, as it grant 25% dr for the first strike only, after 2,5 secs you are out of it and wasted a encounter power. in pvp it just need a dot to completely wipe your flying balls.
    Dust to Dust - why it was used anyway? Do you realy play warlock??? why it was used?? maybe to fill ap(80% ap)? Not everyone have mother's credit card to buy every mount/weapons in the game so we need to use what the game give to us.
    Dreadtheft. nerfed, no more damage buff after casting it or full stacks on a crit+all consuming...
    Immolation Sparks, gor nerfed(no more damage bonus from sparks) but got buffed(base damage increased) result=0 (+1-1=0)

    Watch some of my videos. I never used Dust to Dust and I'm quite perma AP, but yeah it's Sigil of Devoted+Flail Snail. But. Now as Soul Scorch generates AP too it will be useless.

    Dreadtheft - I agree, buff disappearing after cast is done isn't good. But it's still buffing party. And Crit+All Consuming will be fixed.

    Immolation Sparks - yeah, but it's no longer consuming sparks so you still have sparks damage buff and sparks survivability buff, also - they attack faster and generates more sparks so, so +1+1+0,5+0,5 and your -1=2
    It'll be useless bacause how sparks works now, or can you fill ap with just 5 SS? and for sparks gem, mobs need to be alive to get so how are you planing to do with GWF/CW killing everything long time before you can cast a atwill?
    You can fill it up with SS (and rest of encounters).

    Have you actually tried it on preview? Even in etos there's plenty time to land Soul Scorches, there's always some big mob to take 2-4 hits and some lesser mobs that can take >4 hits overall. And the weaker the party you can spam more.

    Keep in mind this is feedback topic on PTS server, <10 days before going live - it would be lovefull if you write some info about situation on PTS mostly after testing it and then, later, some new ideas.</p>
    I already have tested and told how to fix it, but it's impossible now as we are NOT getting anymore buffs for this mod!
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    candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    @amenar can you make Warlock Curse an AoE? that would be a huge QoL increase.
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    naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    What worried me about Hadar's Grasp not increasing damage from all sources anymore is the reasoning amenar gave to that. From what I've tested on live, on dummies and dragons, Hadar's Grasp did provide an increase in damage from all powers even as I had already the max bonus from my RI. Amenar removed that since he considered it useless for someone who capped RI already. So, was I doing something wrong on my testing or did I just read ACT wrong? (I had about 97% RI)

    And about the new bonus on hadar's grasp, could it be turned from increasing damage from curses to increasing damage from any DoT's? That would make it somewhat useful specially if it worked for party members.
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    desertravelerdesertraveler Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    On preview server. I am a BIS SW since conception. Spent last night and today changing through various feat trees and paths and doing 1vs1 against fellow BIS players in IWD with no pets. I am thoroughly disgusted with warlock performance. I see alot of number crunching and so forth, but has anyone actually done 1v1 pvp also? I went against GF, CW and HR. I simply could not compete. I will keep changing out builds and trying new ideas but as far as i can see nothing was done to improve ACTUAL performance only theory crafting. Please someone make me eat my words and say they actually have a viable pvp warlock that they have put through actual game play in pvp. Thank you.
    Post edited by desertraveler on
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    divectoredivectore Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    fernuu said:

    I never saw 200k bullcharge on myself unless there was GF+DC with AS. Max I saw 1v1 was ~90k.


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    flowcytoflowcyto Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    I still feel that Harrowstorm is a bit too slow for what it does, although the dmg buff is nice. I think the issue isn't w/ speeding up the anim, per se, but w/ making the activation of the spell occur earlier in the anim.

    Atm, there's a bit of a delay after ur toon fully raises their casting arm up for when the spell actually hits. I feel like this activation point should instead come closer to the mid-point of that final arm-raise anim. This way, by the time the SW has raised that arm fully they can be assured the power has hit, and they can use that as a cue to slip (if they want to). Atm, if you slip at that point in the anim, ur likely to have still caused it to cancel at the last sec, which is irritating.
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
    - Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    Burning guidance once worked with temploc but it crashed the game frequently, for all the team if burning guidance was set to work with temptations it would need at least 10 times increase and cooldown of 2 second to make it minimally use full.

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    weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Maybe someone knows.. Will a equally equipped HB Fury SW be able to do Comparable dmg as a SB Damnation SW in Mod 10? has there been any testing? I'm wanting to focus on Curses and WB, BoVA, and DT... just curious if that'll work like it did in Mod 5 (my glory days).

    If NOT.. then the Devs basically have wasted their time and everyone else's with tweaking HB. No one really wants to feel inferior in DPS role just because they want to do something other than SB.
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

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    gomok72gomok72 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Bug: Class feat: Warlocks bargain

    Spec: Soul binder
    Once applied to a individual when a dot is applied from any class power, boon (Feythistle), enchant, it causes a huge loop back of damage, on top of the 15% initial loss of health. This can be seen especially when hellish rebuke or HR DoT effects is applied to the Warlock applying the Warlock's bargain.

    Post edited by gomok72 on
    I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.

    -Kymos
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    fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    candinho2 said:

    I am a BIS SW since conception. Spent last night and today changing through various feat trees and paths and doing 1vs1 in IWD with no pets. I am thoroughly disgusted with warlock performance. I see alot of number crunching and so forth, but has anyone actually done 1v1 pvp also? I went against GF, CW and HR. I simply could not compete. I will keep changing out builds and trying new ideas but as far as i can see nothing was done to improve ACTUAL performance only theory crafting. Please someone make me eat my words and say they actually have a viable pvp warlock that they have put through actual game play in pvp. Thank you.

    You can aways do as fernuu, open your wallet, buy all the good stuffs and you will do fine in pvp, also helps if you get to same guild as all are visa warriors xD
    Good one. I'm barely 3.6k, playing this game since it was out of beta, which gives me over two years.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • Options
    gomok72gomok72 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Bug: Class mechanic: Warlocks Curse

    Spec: Hellbringer
    Once Warlock's curse is applied to high deflect build TRs and HRs both classe's deflect was at 72%, it causes major damage to the Warlock and often death.
    Damage taken was identified as the "Darkness" damage.
    I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.

    -Kymos
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    martianmnhuntermartianmnhunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Overall in regards to PvP this class is still the weakest. In the past, the only things that kept the class relevant were Lostmauth set, Wheel of elements, cancel animations, since then all 3 of those were nerfed. I want to demonstrate the nerfs with a detailed video but I'm not sure if it's worth my effort, is the dev even still there reading these posts or it's too late to make any changes?
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    schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    @gomok you found that bug

    @weaver936 i run IWD with HB fury , 10 points in damnation for PoP, and i did better than SB soloing , using pop, bova, hadar Hand plus hellgate NPNM+ ACC
    If HB is > SB in dungeons i can't tell

    The feadback about PVP is not very encouraging...
    But also not very surprising, since the best defense 1vs1 was Dreadtheft stacking up to 5 and not expiring instantly, IS seem to not work or help that much too...sad imo waiting > 2 years to be competetive
    At least i would be interested in a vid about performance since i did no PVP on PTR, only thought about the options you got facetanking a GF or a GWF.
    In case you do PVP you will have to switch encounter and feats all time facing different classes i guess?
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    agante22agante22 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Been testing live game pvp situations all week with every build/enchantment rotation one can think of working with hellbringer. Heres a bit of an overview of the experiences.

    SW Vs HR:
    This ends up being a lifesteal vs heavy deflect/healing fight. With HR new piercing damage rotations they are able to one rotate and at times one shot you. Mobility is the key in the matchup but the overall outcome will be the same as hellbringer lacks reliable healing to compete.

    SW Vs TR:
    Hellbringer has nothing to compete in this matchup. Couragebreak/Smokebomb combo is absolutely lethal while we are specced hellbringer due to lack of healing. Gone through every possible encounter and daily for some sort of reprive but it just isn't viable. When able to avoid the rotation and break clear steathled target will heal to full while you stand around without a target to proc lifesteal heals. Its actually pretty embarrassing how sad we under perform in this match up

    SW Vs GF:
    This actually ends up being a decent matchup if you are able to maintain all your dodges. Expect to lose but I'm consistently bringing my target to within 25%. Challenge here is the far superior GF dodge/Shield mechanic as well as one rotation prone instagib on your back (thought this was getting "balanced" think again).

    SW Vs CW:
    I haven't lost once in this matchup with all BIS CW's coming through test. Obviously timing stuns is key with their dodge mechanic obviously but you can expect win this matchup consistently.

    SW Vs GWF:
    Enjoy your respawn, nuff said

    SW vs SW:
    Very buggy fight as gomork posted from last warlocks bargain is having issue. There is also an issue with hellish rebuke. When two warlocks cast hellish rebuke on each other the damage is looped back and fourth until one dies (the darkness). Winner is whoever stuns first

    When you take all of this as a whole the class under performs and rolling hellbringer just feels clunky to play. Top encounter rotation with hellbringer being haders,pillar,killing flames- at will hellish (slotted merci) you are able to put out substantially more dps then live but our lack of healing and party utility leave a lot to be desired. I seriously doubt the changes implemented for MOD 10 will have a positive effect in bringing back any sort of healthy SW population to pvp.

    In my opinion the DEV team has bitten off more then they can chew trying to balance GF/HR/SW in module. GF rotation is just as strong, HR's got a great piercing damage buff, and we are left with broken mechanics in soulbinder plus glass BB gun option with hellbringer.
This discussion has been closed.