Control Wizard's the class that got nerfed the most out of all the classes. There wasn't any thought given into it, it was just a plain nerf due to disabling a lot of spells to stop making a critical strike, furthermore preventing the biggest damage potential to make a critical strike at specific times (from 100% down to 33% and still can't crit).
Furthermore, the controlling powers and features are seriously useless due to the overpowered CC reduction that elite mobs possess. Furthermore, bosses cant' be controlled and/or frozen, thus making the use of controlling powers completely stupid to take.
So it is no wonder that CWs are going to the damage output. Now, here's the problem. At least 4 classes in the Neverwinter community are completely holding the left click to win anything. Melee weapons are currently the best output due to their increased single-target damage as well as high crit chances. The game practically became what it shouldn't be - a playground for the Great Weapon Fighter. It's mod 2-3 all along again but this time with tremendously weakened CWs in terms of the controlling powers. Back then you'd cast a Singularity and you'd have actual mob controlling options at your disposal and furthermore you'd invest in recovery like any CW should do. But that doesn't happen now and MoF builds are in serious advantage thanks to their Daily power, leaving SS CWs in dust.
Current gameplay doesn't take any tactics, whatsoever, just a good DC/GF/OP combo and some damage dealer, specifically GWF paired with either HR or SW.
There's little to no room there for a CW, other than to cast Icy Terrain and insta-freeze mobs in order to make the sleepy GWF even less worried that his left-clicking will somehow skip a skeleton.
And then you do that over and over and over and over and over again in the same dungeons with same content and no real sense of progression since as a CW you need to do this whole lot of things in order to time your powers properly in order to be a viable class, whilst others can simply hold left click and still beat you in everything that you do. All they need is power and crit with a slash of the left click. And that's it. That's what's wrong with the game right there.
---------------------------------------------------- I'd like to see CW powers getting back their Critting abilities. ----------------------------------------------------
That is : - Storm Spell to hit on every crit with a 33% chance to deliver an additional hit. This would make AoE that much more useful! - Assailing Force to hit Critical strikes yet again. What use of it if it only hits for the Weapon Damage bonus, yet CWs have one of the lowest weapon damage numbers? - Eye of the Storm to Crit 100% for 6 seconds, like before. This would give some more viable builds for the SS Control Wizards and furthermore make the rotations to count massively. It would make a good distinction between players with skill and players without any. - An Increase to the base weapon damage for the Control Wizard Artifacts. Why should the CWs be the only class that's left out? - Power, Crit and Recovery armors. Current armors are silly to the core. - Better Recovery stat in order to make it a viable choice. Say 1000 Recovery to make a 10% cooldown reduction. Such a thing would balance-out the Plain damage versus a balanced build. - 3/3 Set Artifacts for Control Wizards that add 100% controlling bonus if we can't already freeze things the way we'd like to. - A reworked difficulty. Bosses hitting for 500.000 damage? Seriously? - Drop the "Healer+Tank" bullcrap that's been going on since MOD6. It's been four mods, and I'd like to run with Health Potions, if possible, without the fear that a tiny spider will kill me in a single hit since that really, really doesn't make any sense.
This game used to be fun before MOD6 hit, make it fun once again and not just for the melee classes who spam a single button, but for the people who actually put a lot of thought into the builds and seek the proper gameplay.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
I love a lot of the ideas in this thread, but some mostly obvious comments:
1. Anything elaborate is likely never going to happen 2. The track record for balance changes is to look at; 1) anything out of whack on the damage meter and 2) usage stats to determine if some powers are used too often and others not enough 3. Using #2 the bulk of changes will likely be felt there
I'd like to see more internal balance with Thaum getting a bit more dps, Rene a bit more on the buffs and Oppressor needs lot of help, but mostly if control was actually viable in PvE as a mechanic then that would be a good start for all paths. My pessimism with that is the changes to make control "work" in PvE are more than just tweaking skills, it has to do with mobs and more than just what is internal to the CW. Anyway, I like the thoughts here, great thread!
One of the things we can acknowledge is that we have 2 paragons and 2 feat trees that are usable. I won't begrudge anyone who would like to have a little dust up on these and a bit of bug clean up on top but contrary to some classes we are in no desesperate situation.
As an aside just ook at what there is in mod 9 pre mod 10 changes:
SW one parangon left alone, feat trees bugged as 'where their contracts come from' (adressed)
HR with only one bugged feat tree viable (adressed)
GWF with again one unique workable feat tree that has its own sets of problems
OP with one feat tree regardless of the parangon
and of course before change
GF an DC overperforming in the buff area (adressed)
So, I'm not sure if CW is the priority in the balance scheme. In my opinion (but reality will possibly run contrary to it) the nex two to get on the balance table are probably GWF and OP. If we're hit with something it would be more along the lines of adressing a specific issue like we saw with bubble rework, or now weapons of light fix. So I wouldn't start counting my changes before CW is anounced as next in line for a round of balance.
On the other hand if we knew the classes the dev team will look at before they actually start to work on it we could orgaanize ourselves like this tread so conveniently proposes.
Maybe decrease the cc for thaum and increase its dmg to be competitive! In its capstone maybe. Plus Icy veins should be put higher in Oppressor tiers!
If thaum can't compete with other classes in dps then well just release Sorcerer and we can all abandon our CWs for dps purposes! Leave it for buffers and controllers.
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
But also, I 100% agree with fabricants suggestion to make storm spell and crit conflagration inherit in the paragon class. While we're looking at smolder, it would also be great that if another CW refreshes it by turning it into rim fire, that it doesn't count as THEIR damage.
Sure, make chilling presence half as effective, effectively taking away a HUGE chunk of damage capabilities CWs have and they are not the most damage heavy class out there to begin with (which I know they are not meant to be, but this would take them even further down). IF they do that, they need to increase the base damage of other powers.
Sure, make chilling presence half as effective, effectively taking away a HUGE chunk of damage capabilities CWs have and they are not the most damage heavy class out there to begin with (which I know they are not meant to be, but this would take them even further down). IF they do that, they need to increase the base damage of other powers.
It would be needed indeed. At the moment it is almost impossible to boast any meaningful DPS without Chilling Presence. It quite frankly is a crutch for the wizzards and as such should be adressed. But as you mentioned if your remove the crutch, you have to make sure the cast is gone too and that you can stand on your own without it. So yes I would gladly see the effectiveness of Chilling presence halved but it would need a buff of 50% damage for all powers
Sure, make chilling presence half as effective, effectively taking away a HUGE chunk of damage capabilities CWs have and they are not the most damage heavy class out there to begin with (which I know they are not meant to be, but this would take them even further down). IF they do that, they need to increase the base damage of other powers.
It would be needed indeed. At the moment it is almost impossible to boast any meaningful DPS without Chilling Presence. It quite frankly is a crutch for the wizzards and as such should be adressed. But as you mentioned if your remove the crutch, you have to make sure the cast is gone too and that you can stand on your own without it. So yes I would gladly see the effectiveness of Chilling presence halved but it would need a buff of 50% damage for all powers
And that's the part where Cryptic will screw things up and we'll be left holding the ball for six months.
There's a few general problems for CWs in PvP as it stands right now. - they don't do enough damage to really kill anything that's properly geared and specced. This is at least partially a consequence of the massive self-healing, but also how little Resistance Ignored does currently in many cases. - they lack variety; Shield is pretty much mandatory and practically everyone uses it on tab, Repel is the main useful tool CWs have (because of being unable to kill), Ray of Frost is the at-will and nothing else needs apply. - they are mechanically disadvantaged in some situations; casting times could be lessened on a number of single-target powers, some powers should lock you down for less time when being cast; and they also lack tools for effectively fighting a couple of classes in particular.
Toning down Chilling Presence is logical, as it's far better than anything else around, but it would also mean CWs would be left with even less damage in PvP, and that would probably need to be compensated for, either by boosting the base damage of some powers or by boosting the damage potential of some feats.
I think it wouldn't be overly disruptive to PvE if Magic Missile and Disintegrate had some (but not full) piercing damage (or a substantial resistance ignored bonus) and ignored deflection. You will probably want full RI for the purpose of other powers anyway. That would make them solid sources of damage against particular classes in PvP that have very high DR, and it fits with the source material.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche could use a substantial tune-up, particularly the tab variant. More damage, longer prone, or both.
Chill stacks should stick to players for a set duration regardless of control immunity or resistance.
Shield could be toned down in exchange for other survivability options. Adding some defensive bonuses to other CW powers (i.e. gain 3% deflection chance per rank for 3 seconds after casting Repel) or tweaking some feats that don't see much use (i.e. Brisk Transport could boost teleport range as well movement speed) might accomplish this.
Imprisonment could potentially be an interesting spell for PvP use, but right now it's not really useful for much, so it could need some sort of boost. Targets should be immune to healing as well as damage, at least (if that's not already the case). And with that latter consideration included, it could be an interesting utility spell if it could also target teammates (but that would also make it hard to use in many cases).
Repel is a really strong spell in many cases -- basically the main reason to bring a CW to PvP right now -- but if Spell Twisting and Icy Veins are reduced in power, that would also make Repel less useful.
Guardian Fighter mechanics are particularly bad for CWs to face off against. You can't control them through the block. They are supposed to have the weakness of getting around the block, but in order to do so, you need to get very close, and if they get close to you, they can cc you with Bull Charge or Crescendo and it generally can't be dodged. Their powers have faster activation times, which means this route is pretty much a non-option, not least because while a GF can kill a CW in one rotation, a CW needs multiple rotations to kill a GF. It used to be the case that you could gradually add chill stacks through their block, so you could eventually freeze them, which made the mechanics when fighting on node more balanced against each other, but that was a long time ago. So CWs need some tools to address this match-up in particular. Shard being viable would help, some other spell that could strike from behind the block or break it down a bit would too.
Macjae is right about messing Chilling Presence or anything in general. If Cryptic does not look at everything in detail, it will only hurt something that works, and they will not give us any recourse. Right now, with all the HR talk, I know some HRs that will not switch to anything outside of Trapper because options are really not there.
As far as looking at older things, there are a lot of things that have gotten nerfs over the course of time and need to be restored. Shard of Endless Avalanche used to be a nice source of DPS, but was nerfed. Even Macjae mentioned its DPS. We have a Passive power that was nerfed in reponse to LostMouth, now that that set has been "tweaked", we need our passive back. [I believe it was Storm Spell]
Bottom line, the whole picture has to be looked at as to what we/they want the CW to be (i.e. fix the Oppressor Capstone Feat). If they want her to be a controller, then look at Elven Battle a little carefully in regards to stacks of chill.
Question, why not instead of nerfing certain abilities, we look for ways to bring the other abilities up to par? Consider chilling presence the benchmark, and adjust the rest accordingly
Because if they did that we'd be hilariously overpowered compared to every other class in the game.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
Because if they did that we'd be hilariously overpowered compared to every other class in the game.
Exactly it must be a tradeoff. Chilling presence is a crutch but is necessary because the base damage of our spells is somewhat .... low. Our final damage is in a good range now but look at how many multiplers we have: 30% focuse wizardry - 20% swath of destruction - 53%-101 with chilling presence (and off hand) I over simplify but it means if we are in a good range damage-wise that our 'naked' damage is 40% of what you actually deal the rest comes from the multipliers
This creates a lever phenomenon that masks the true weakness of CW but by the same time prevents any choice but to enact this lever effect.
We should try to adjust the ratio base damage/ multiplier in order to possibly have a choice. It means toning dow chilling presence, buffing base damage of spells and tweaking a few class features.
Personnaly I like the idea of storm spell and crit conflag (the apply smolder part) as core parangon mechanics but I would also see a slight augmentation in the duration of Combustive Action debuff, a quicker activation on ray of frost that I currently find irresponsive...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Because if they did that we'd be hilariously overpowered compared to every other class in the game.
Not really, if it's a trade off. The problem is that CP is essentially mandatory in almost every build, leaving you with one Class Feature to chose from. Storm Spell is the obvious choice, so there's not flexibility there. On the MoF you can consider trade-offs, but dropping CP is a huge cut to personal performance, so in all but the most amazing of groups, I doubt most people do it.
So for our sake, I'd rather see other stuff brought up to the level of CP, and it doesn't necessarily have to mean another DPS feature, but something that brings enough utility to be a trade-off.
As far as our DPS goes, we're pretty much in the middle right now. Who knows after the changes to SWs and HRs go through...we might be lagging towards the back again.
Anyway, let's start with BUFFS and ADDITIONS to the class. IF through testing, things get way out of whack, they can always be dialed back. Let's not immediately start moving our class backwards.
agree with @ironzerg79, balancing doesn't have to start with nerfs. Especially in the case of CP, if other class features were brought up to its level, it would provide more choices that might make CP not so mandatory.
I would really like to see storm spell and CC or even Swath built into paragon mechanics, or even moved to one of the feat trees. That was an excellent suggestion that in itself would allow more build path options. Swath of destruction could be built into the mechanics, possibly adding a cumulative debuff, so it would stack 10% per tick ( up to its max )
Encounter spells need to be looked at as well, considering no matter what your build is, you will most likely end up using COI, IT, ST, D. As it is there are too many encounters that you cant use which need to be improved, before you should look at nerfing things like disintegrate. ( Personally, I think disintegrate should be a daily power anyway. )
Also. FIREBALLS
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Because if they did that we'd be hilariously overpowered compared to every other class in the game.
Not really, if it's a trade off. The problem is that CP is essentially mandatory in almost every build, leaving you with one Class Feature to chose from. Storm Spell is the obvious choice, so there's not flexibility there. On the MoF you can consider trade-offs, but dropping CP is a huge cut to personal performance, so in all but the most amazing of groups, I doubt most people do it.
So for our sake, I'd rather see other stuff brought up to the level of CP, and it doesn't necessarily have to mean another DPS feature, but something that brings enough utility to be a trade-off.
As far as our DPS goes, we're pretty much in the middle right now. Who knows after the changes to SWs and HRs go through...we might be lagging towards the back again.
Anyway, let's start with BUFFS and ADDITIONS to the class. IF through testing, things get way out of whack, they can always be dialed back. Let's not immediately start moving our class backwards.
@ironzerg79 I honestly think buffing other class features up to the level of chilling presence would make CW overpowered. As it is, we are ok when it comes to damage. Not spectacular, not 100% competitive, but definitely balanced. Even pre nerf storm spell was not as good as the current chilling presence. Just because it doesn't show up on ACT as, "chilling presence did x% of your damage" as its a buff doesn't mean it isn't directly comparable to things that do. I would rather take away the boost from CP and put it elsewhere (which is the PERFECT excuse to incorporate crit conflag and SS into the class as class mechanics) than risk a nerf CW thread blown out of proportion like the current ranting on the HR threads, or the complaining about CW in mod 0-5. I would rather have the feedback for CW be coming from concerned CWs, then from angry pvp players who have never played CW at all.
Surely you wouldn't bump everything to a direct equivalent of CP. My suggestion was more to just work towards that level of effectiveness. You could always balance towards CP and then take some off the top. I'm not at all suggesting that evocation, for instance would equal the dmg bonus of CP. However like @ironzerg79 I think the trade off could come with extra utility built into the powers.
Currently most of the class features we have are useless as is, and it would take a major overhaul to make some of them viable, even with a buff.
I think some of the class features should be removed entirely, and replaced with something completely different. I have always wished the CW had more dynamic interactions between the different elements, and maybe the class features could support that. @thefabricant's suggestions to make core ss/mof features mechanics of the paragon path could set the stage for this.
Anyone else want to see lightning with a chance to stun ? Or arc towards multiple enemies? Smoldering ash that blinds targets or suffocates them ? Or more utility built into arcane spells, like "hold person", spell shield, etc? Or what about the ability to combo certain elements together for additional effects ? Revamping class features and assigning paragon mechanics from storm spell and crit conflagration could make room for this
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited August 2016
Here's my fantasy list of possible changes for the CW:
First, overall thoughts. I want to give CWs multiple paths to chose from. Damage? Control? Buff/debuffing? I think all three of those are great paths for this class. Should a CW be great at all three? No. Let's create some choices there, but let's make one viable and useful to groups.
Second, let's get the CW back to being a ranged DPS class. Current meta has them, for the most part, fighting eyeball to eyeball with bad guys. To me, that's not really the classic wizard archetype.
Third, I want to add the damage back to the powers and feats, while making the class features aimed more at adding special effects to your powers.
So that's where I'm starting.
Chill: Chilled targets move 5% slower per stack. Attack speed and ability recharge reduced by 5% per stack. Not affected by CC resistance. Non-CC immune targets will freeze at 7 stacks. Spellstorm Mage: Storm Spell by default: You now have a chance to strike a target for extra damage 20% of the time when you hit with a power Master of Flame: Smolder: Targets hit by your powers have a 20% chance to be inflicted with smolder. Stacks up to 3 times.
Magic Missile: Now each hit adds one stack of Arcane Mastery, with the third cast delivery three stacks. Ray of Frost: Now slows the enemy by 50% while be targeted Chill Strike: Changed to AOE hitting 5 targets, no stun. Mastery: Now stuns each target. Ice Storm: Changed to AOE target. Target cap removed. Now knocks targets up, then leaves them prone. Adds 6 stacks of Chill Orb of Imposition: Re-worked. Damaging powers now have a 5%/rank chance to daze your target for 1 second (can only occur once every 5 seconds). Conduit of Ice: Adds chill stacks, radius increased 50%. Mastery: Increases target cap to 10 Entangling Force: Now affects up to 5 enemies, duration reduced per target beyond 1. Mastery: All targets affected for max duration. Arcane Singularity: Decrease cast time by 50%. Target cap removed. Oppressive Force: No change Repel: Now affects up to five targets. Mastery: Casting a second time pulls the enemies back towards you, renders them prone. Arcane Presence: Increases effectiveness of Arcane mastery 1/2/3/4% per stack. Increases recharge speed by 5% per rank. Chilling Presence: Increases the effectiveness of Chill by 1/2/3/4%. Chills now also reduce damage target deals by 1.5/3/4.5/6% per stack. Chilling Cloud: Will freeze targets Shield: No change Evocation: Increase the damage and size of your AOE powers by 5% per rank Icy Terrain: Range increased to 80'. Mastery: Increases radius by 50%. Doubles the length of the immobilize. Sudden Storm: Range increased to 60'. Width increased by 50% Fanning the Flame: Duration doubled to 8 seconds, always adds smolders: Mastery: Target cap increased to 10 Combustive Action: Targets take more damage from all effects. Duration increased to 10 seconds. Stormfury: Your lightning powers add a DoT effect for 20% of initial damage done for 4 seconds. Storm Pillar: No long a charge power. Pillar created/damage maxed per cast. Scorching Burst: No longer a charge power. AOE/damage maxed per cast Ray of Enfeeblement: No long a DoT, but full damage upfront. Mastery: Adds three charges. Ice Knife: Damage increased by 50% Steal Time: Mastery: 80' range, ground target. Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Changed to ground target. Shard explodes on impact, knocking enemies prone/ Mastery: Adds three charges Maelstrom of Chaos: Decrease activation time by 75%. Increase radius by 50%. Eye of the Storm: Activating a lightning power reduces the CD by 1 second Storm Spell: Targets hit by your lightning damage take 5/10/15/20% damage for 5 seconds. Increases lightning damage by 5/10/15/20%. Critical Conflagration: Increase critical severity by 12.5%/25%/37.5%/50%. All critical hits add/refresh smolder. Swath of Destruction: No change Furious Immolation: Target cap removed. Adds smolder to all targets Disintegrate: No change Arcane Power Field: Increase damage by like a bajillion percent Imprisonment: Duration increased to 10 seconds. Cooldown 15 seconds. Subsequent casts are less effective on the same target. Mastery: 2 charges Frost Wave: When you activate a daily power, targets hit take 1000% weapon damage (affected by buffs, etc) per stack of chill
Feat changes:
Controlling Action: You gain 2/4/6/8/10% of your power as recovery Battlewise: You create 25/50/75% less threat Wizard's Wrath/Blighting Power/Arcane Enhancement? No idea...make these more interesting Lightning Teleport: Increases the range of your teleport by 10/20/30/40/50% (PvP change?) Focused Wizardry: Your single target powers deal 10/20/30/40/50% more damage (again, better for PvP?) Learned Spellcaster: Your AOE powers deal 10/20/30% more damage Prestidigitation: Your allies gain 5/10/15% of your stats as a bonus
As for the paragon trees, I think the Oppressor is the one that needs to be reworked the most:
Brisk Teleport: Increase run speed by 5/10/15/20/25% and adds CC immunity for 3 seconds after you teleport Glacial Movement: Increases control bonus by 30/60/90/120/150% Alacrity: When you deal damage to an enemy, you have a chance to reduce the cooldown of all your ice powers by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%
Shatter Strike: Renamed "Frostbite". Anytime you add a stack of chill to a target, you add one stack of Frostbite (max 1 stack/second). Frostbite increases the damage the target takes by 1% per stack. Maximum 100 stacks. Frostbite last for 10 seconds, and refreshes it's duration when another stack is added.
Post edited by ironzerg79 on
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Something I really like about steal time but which doesn't really see much use these days is the speed bonus. To make it more useful, you should always gain the maximum speed bonus from having it tabbed and on tab you should be able to move during the animation. This makes steal time on tab more like ITF.
Something I really like about steal time but which doesn't really see much use these days is the speed bonus. To make it more useful, you should always gain the maximum speed bonus from having it tabbed and on tab you should be able to move during the animation. This makes steal time on tab more like ITF.
People hate me for using it, which I use whenever they start throwing around the mobs away from the Icy Terrain. Yet, it's one of the most OP things out there mechanic-wise and people generally lack the ability to play as a team and they lack the ability to time things correctly team-wise. It's literally the best skill to fly entire map, especially when combined with 2 CWs.
Currently, it's all about allowing one guy to take the aggro and damage and the rest are to constantly spam skills and/or plain at-will. How people don't get bored out of it is beyond me.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
@ironzerg79 I distinctivly remember you bashing me for saying control wizards were not ranged. Make up your Mind you booze Loving zerger of Iron
Without Joking. Yes we need to get our Range Back. It doesnt Make sense for a clothy to be this close to High hitting adds. My 2k ilvl gwf is already More resistent than my 2.8k cw.
Secondly i want to mention that something needs to be done against the hv setbonus. I dont know the exact setbonus but if such Old gear is still being used because of how good it is than this needs to change imo. Maybe give part of the setbonus Back via feats?
Also while i like your proposed changes it will seriously buff our AoE damage. What would you propose to keep the class around the current level of damage?
To really Make a Wizard able to stand far away you also need icy terrain to be groundtargeted. Much like the current icy terrain on tab.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Move icy veins to tier 4 . Move spelltwisting to tier 4. Move abyss of chaos or the critical feat to tier 4. AFTER you do this alll trees viable.
BEcause: opressor will have the best control and the only and best damage source tbe chilling presence 98% vs thrash and always chills vs boss. Thaumaturge with spelltwisting and feats to selfbuff storm pilar and frozen power transfer. REnegade the purpose is to buff isnt it ? why you need veins or spell twisting?
To really Make a Wizard able to stand far away you also need icy terrain to be groundtargeted. Much like the current icy terrain on tab.
Maybe something along the lines of:
Icy Terrain could be cast at feet with level 1 and then the casting distance could be increased by 10 ft for each power point put into the skill. Putting the skill on tab would increase the radius of icy terrain by 50%.
Comments
Furthermore, the controlling powers and features are seriously useless due to the overpowered CC reduction that elite mobs possess. Furthermore, bosses cant' be controlled and/or frozen, thus making the use of controlling powers completely stupid to take.
So it is no wonder that CWs are going to the damage output. Now, here's the problem. At least 4 classes in the Neverwinter community are completely holding the left click to win anything. Melee weapons are currently the best output due to their increased single-target damage as well as high crit chances. The game practically became what it shouldn't be - a playground for the Great Weapon Fighter. It's mod 2-3 all along again but this time with tremendously weakened CWs in terms of the controlling powers. Back then you'd cast a Singularity and you'd have actual mob controlling options at your disposal and furthermore you'd invest in recovery like any CW should do. But that doesn't happen now and MoF builds are in serious advantage thanks to their Daily power, leaving SS CWs in dust.
Current gameplay doesn't take any tactics, whatsoever, just a good DC/GF/OP combo and some damage dealer, specifically GWF paired with either HR or SW.
There's little to no room there for a CW, other than to cast Icy Terrain and insta-freeze mobs in order to make the sleepy GWF even less worried that his left-clicking will somehow skip a skeleton.
And then you do that over and over and over and over and over again in the same dungeons with same content and no real sense of progression since as a CW you need to do this whole lot of things in order to time your powers properly in order to be a viable class, whilst others can simply hold left click and still beat you in everything that you do. All they need is power and crit with a slash of the left click. And that's it. That's what's wrong with the game right there.
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I'd like to see CW powers getting back their Critting abilities.
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That is :
- Storm Spell to hit on every crit with a 33% chance to deliver an additional hit. This would make AoE that much more useful!
- Assailing Force to hit Critical strikes yet again. What use of it if it only hits for the Weapon Damage bonus, yet CWs have one of the lowest weapon damage numbers?
- Eye of the Storm to Crit 100% for 6 seconds, like before. This would give some more viable builds for the SS Control Wizards and furthermore make the rotations to count massively. It would make a good distinction between players with skill and players without any.
- An Increase to the base weapon damage for the Control Wizard Artifacts. Why should the CWs be the only class that's left out?
- Power, Crit and Recovery armors. Current armors are silly to the core.
- Better Recovery stat in order to make it a viable choice. Say 1000 Recovery to make a 10% cooldown reduction. Such a thing would balance-out the Plain damage versus a balanced build.
- 3/3 Set Artifacts for Control Wizards that add 100% controlling bonus if we can't already freeze things the way we'd like to.
- A reworked difficulty. Bosses hitting for 500.000 damage? Seriously?
- Drop the "Healer+Tank" bullcrap that's been going on since MOD6. It's been four mods, and I'd like to run with Health Potions, if possible, without the fear that a tiny spider will kill me in a single hit since that really, really doesn't make any sense.
This game used to be fun before MOD6 hit, make it fun once again and not just for the melee classes who spam a single button, but for the people who actually put a lot of thought into the builds and seek the proper gameplay.
1. Anything elaborate is likely never going to happen
2. The track record for balance changes is to look at; 1) anything out of whack on the damage meter and 2) usage stats to determine if some powers are used too often and others not enough
3. Using #2 the bulk of changes will likely be felt there
I'd like to see more internal balance with Thaum getting a bit more dps, Rene a bit more on the buffs and Oppressor needs lot of help, but mostly if control was actually viable in PvE as a mechanic then that would be a good start for all paths. My pessimism with that is the changes to make control "work" in PvE are more than just tweaking skills, it has to do with mobs and more than just what is internal to the CW. Anyway, I like the thoughts here, great thread!
As an aside just ook at what there is in mod 9 pre mod 10 changes:
- SW one parangon left alone, feat trees bugged as 'where their contracts come from' (adressed)
- HR with only one bugged feat tree viable (adressed)
- GWF with again one unique workable feat tree that has its own sets of problems
- OP with one feat tree regardless of the parangon
and of course before change- GF an DC overperforming in the buff area (adressed)
So, I'm not sure if CW is the priority in the balance scheme. In my opinion (but reality will possibly run contrary to it) the nex two to get on the balance table are probably GWF and OP. If we're hit with something it would be more along the lines of adressing a specific issue like we saw with bubble rework, or now weapons of light fix.So I wouldn't start counting my changes before CW is anounced as next in line for a round of balance.
On the other hand if we knew the classes the dev team will look at before they actually start to work on it we could orgaanize ourselves like this tread so conveniently proposes.
Plus Icy veins should be put higher in Oppressor tiers!
If thaum can't compete with other classes in dps then well just release Sorcerer and we can all abandon our CWs for dps purposes! Leave it for buffers and controllers.
This. Not having fireball is so wrong : \
I actually like this better than the rest of the suggestions. Screw everything else and just give us fireball.
As far as looking at older things, there are a lot of things that have gotten nerfs over the course of time and need to be restored. Shard of Endless Avalanche used to be a nice source of DPS, but was nerfed. Even Macjae mentioned its DPS. We have a Passive power that was nerfed in reponse to LostMouth, now that that set has been "tweaked", we need our passive back. [I believe it was Storm Spell]
Bottom line, the whole picture has to be looked at as to what we/they want the CW to be (i.e. fix the Oppressor Capstone Feat). If they want her to be a controller, then look at Elven Battle a little carefully in regards to stacks of chill.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
30% focuse wizardry - 20% swath of destruction - 53%-101 with chilling presence (and off hand)
I over simplify but it means if we are in a good range damage-wise that our 'naked' damage is 40% of what you actually deal the rest comes from the multipliers
This creates a lever phenomenon that masks the true weakness of CW but by the same time prevents any choice but to enact this lever effect.
We should try to adjust the ratio base damage/ multiplier in order to possibly have a choice. It means toning dow chilling presence, buffing base damage of spells and tweaking a few class features.
Personnaly I like the idea of storm spell and crit conflag (the apply smolder part) as core parangon mechanics but I would also see a slight augmentation in the duration of Combustive Action debuff, a quicker activation on ray of frost that I currently find irresponsive...
So for our sake, I'd rather see other stuff brought up to the level of CP, and it doesn't necessarily have to mean another DPS feature, but something that brings enough utility to be a trade-off.
As far as our DPS goes, we're pretty much in the middle right now. Who knows after the changes to SWs and HRs go through...we might be lagging towards the back again.
Anyway, let's start with BUFFS and ADDITIONS to the class. IF through testing, things get way out of whack, they can always be dialed back. Let's not immediately start moving our class backwards.
I would really like to see storm spell and CC or even Swath built into paragon mechanics, or even moved to one of the feat trees. That was an excellent suggestion that in itself would allow more build path options. Swath of destruction could be built into the mechanics, possibly adding a cumulative debuff, so it would stack 10% per tick ( up to its max )
Encounter spells need to be looked at as well, considering no matter what your build is, you will most likely end up using COI, IT, ST, D. As it is there are too many encounters that you cant use which need to be improved, before you should look at nerfing things like disintegrate. ( Personally, I think disintegrate should be a daily power anyway. )
Also. FIREBALLS
Currently most of the class features we have are useless as is, and it would take a major overhaul to make some of them viable, even with a buff.
I think some of the class features should be removed entirely, and replaced with something completely different. I have always wished the CW had more dynamic interactions between the different elements, and maybe the class features could support that. @thefabricant's suggestions to make core ss/mof features mechanics of the paragon path could set the stage for this.
Anyone else want to see lightning with a chance to stun ? Or arc towards multiple enemies? Smoldering ash that blinds targets or suffocates them ? Or more utility built into arcane spells, like "hold person", spell shield, etc?
Or what about the ability to combo certain elements together for additional effects ? Revamping class features and assigning paragon mechanics from storm spell and crit conflagration could make room for this
First, overall thoughts. I want to give CWs multiple paths to chose from. Damage? Control? Buff/debuffing? I think all three of those are great paths for this class. Should a CW be great at all three? No. Let's create some choices there, but let's make one viable and useful to groups.
Second, let's get the CW back to being a ranged DPS class. Current meta has them, for the most part, fighting eyeball to eyeball with bad guys. To me, that's not really the classic wizard archetype.
Third, I want to add the damage back to the powers and feats, while making the class features aimed more at adding special effects to your powers.
So that's where I'm starting.
Chill: Chilled targets move 5% slower per stack. Attack speed and ability recharge reduced by 5% per stack. Not affected by CC resistance. Non-CC immune targets will freeze at 7 stacks.
Spellstorm Mage: Storm Spell by default: You now have a chance to strike a target for extra damage 20% of the time when you hit with a power
Master of Flame: Smolder: Targets hit by your powers have a 20% chance to be inflicted with smolder. Stacks up to 3 times.
Magic Missile: Now each hit adds one stack of Arcane Mastery, with the third cast delivery three stacks.
Ray of Frost: Now slows the enemy by 50% while be targeted
Chill Strike: Changed to AOE hitting 5 targets, no stun. Mastery: Now stuns each target.
Ice Storm: Changed to AOE target. Target cap removed. Now knocks targets up, then leaves them prone. Adds 6 stacks of Chill
Orb of Imposition: Re-worked. Damaging powers now have a 5%/rank chance to daze your target for 1 second (can only occur once every 5 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: Adds chill stacks, radius increased 50%. Mastery: Increases target cap to 10
Entangling Force: Now affects up to 5 enemies, duration reduced per target beyond 1. Mastery: All targets affected for max duration.
Arcane Singularity: Decrease cast time by 50%. Target cap removed.
Oppressive Force: No change
Repel: Now affects up to five targets. Mastery: Casting a second time pulls the enemies back towards you, renders them prone.
Arcane Presence: Increases effectiveness of Arcane mastery 1/2/3/4% per stack. Increases recharge speed by 5% per rank.
Chilling Presence: Increases the effectiveness of Chill by 1/2/3/4%. Chills now also reduce damage target deals by 1.5/3/4.5/6% per stack.
Chilling Cloud: Will freeze targets
Shield: No change
Evocation: Increase the damage and size of your AOE powers by 5% per rank
Icy Terrain: Range increased to 80'. Mastery: Increases radius by 50%. Doubles the length of the immobilize.
Sudden Storm: Range increased to 60'. Width increased by 50%
Fanning the Flame: Duration doubled to 8 seconds, always adds smolders: Mastery: Target cap increased to 10
Combustive Action: Targets take more damage from all effects. Duration increased to 10 seconds.
Stormfury: Your lightning powers add a DoT effect for 20% of initial damage done for 4 seconds.
Storm Pillar: No long a charge power. Pillar created/damage maxed per cast.
Scorching Burst: No longer a charge power. AOE/damage maxed per cast
Ray of Enfeeblement: No long a DoT, but full damage upfront. Mastery: Adds three charges.
Ice Knife: Damage increased by 50%
Steal Time: Mastery: 80' range, ground target.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Changed to ground target. Shard explodes on impact, knocking enemies prone/ Mastery: Adds three charges
Maelstrom of Chaos: Decrease activation time by 75%. Increase radius by 50%.
Eye of the Storm: Activating a lightning power reduces the CD by 1 second
Storm Spell: Targets hit by your lightning damage take 5/10/15/20% damage for 5 seconds. Increases lightning damage by 5/10/15/20%.
Critical Conflagration: Increase critical severity by 12.5%/25%/37.5%/50%. All critical hits add/refresh smolder.
Swath of Destruction: No change
Furious Immolation: Target cap removed. Adds smolder to all targets
Disintegrate: No change
Arcane Power Field: Increase damage by like a bajillion percent
Imprisonment: Duration increased to 10 seconds. Cooldown 15 seconds. Subsequent casts are less effective on the same target. Mastery: 2 charges
Frost Wave: When you activate a daily power, targets hit take 1000% weapon damage (affected by buffs, etc) per stack of chill
Feat changes:
Controlling Action: You gain 2/4/6/8/10% of your power as recovery
Battlewise: You create 25/50/75% less threat
Wizard's Wrath/Blighting Power/Arcane Enhancement? No idea...make these more interesting
Lightning Teleport: Increases the range of your teleport by 10/20/30/40/50% (PvP change?)
Focused Wizardry: Your single target powers deal 10/20/30/40/50% more damage (again, better for PvP?)
Learned Spellcaster: Your AOE powers deal 10/20/30% more damage
Prestidigitation: Your allies gain 5/10/15% of your stats as a bonus
As for the paragon trees, I think the Oppressor is the one that needs to be reworked the most:
Brisk Teleport: Increase run speed by 5/10/15/20/25% and adds CC immunity for 3 seconds after you teleport
Glacial Movement: Increases control bonus by 30/60/90/120/150%
Alacrity: When you deal damage to an enemy, you have a chance to reduce the cooldown of all your ice powers by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%
Shatter Strike: Renamed "Frostbite". Anytime you add a stack of chill to a target, you add one stack of Frostbite (max 1 stack/second). Frostbite increases the damage the target takes by 1% per stack. Maximum 100 stacks. Frostbite last for 10 seconds, and refreshes it's duration when another stack is added.
Yet, it's one of the most OP things out there mechanic-wise and people generally lack the ability to play as a team and they lack the ability to time things correctly team-wise. It's literally the best skill to fly entire map, especially when combined with 2 CWs.
Currently, it's all about allowing one guy to take the aggro and damage and the rest are to constantly spam skills and/or plain at-will.
How people don't get bored out of it is beyond me.
I distinctivly remember you bashing me for saying control wizards were not ranged. Make up your Mind you booze Loving zerger of Iron
Without Joking. Yes we need to get our Range Back. It doesnt Make sense for a clothy to be this close to High hitting adds. My 2k ilvl gwf is already More resistent than my 2.8k cw.
Secondly i want to mention that something needs to be done against the hv setbonus. I dont know the exact setbonus but if such Old gear is still being used because of how good it is than this needs to change imo.
Maybe give part of the setbonus Back via feats?
What would you propose to keep the class around the current level of damage?
To really Make a Wizard able to stand far away you also need icy terrain to be groundtargeted. Much like the current icy terrain on tab.
AFTER you do this alll trees viable.
BEcause: opressor will have the best control and the only and best damage source tbe chilling presence 98% vs thrash and always chills vs boss.
Thaumaturge with spelltwisting and feats to selfbuff storm pilar and frozen power transfer.
REnegade the purpose is to buff isnt it ? why you need veins or spell twisting?
Icy Terrain could be cast at feet with level 1 and then the casting distance could be increased by 10 ft for each power point put into the skill. Putting the skill on tab would increase the radius of icy terrain by 50%.