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[PC] What approach do we want to take with CW balance changes?
thefabricant
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
Note: Read EVERYTHING before you pass judgement.
If you have been paying attention to the balance changes for SW, HR, GF and GWF, you will notice that 1 of the devs, @amenar (it seems he is responsible for class balance) has been very actively engaging with the community there and has been taking their feedback into consideration. What has also been evident however, is that there is a lot of dissent among the players providing feedback and there isn't really a unified front when it comes to the players providing feedback. There is a visible divide between the PVP players, the PVE players and then those who are ill informed and aren't actually looking to achieve balance. As a result of that, I propose we organize ourselves now, so that when our time does come (which will probably be in 4-5 months would be my guess) communication is smoother between us and the devs that way we come away feeling more satisfied about the result.
Now, as I see it the best way to go about this is to look at how other classes were balanced and assume CW will be balanced in a similar manner. So, what was notice able about the balance changes is they firstly nerfed the over used abilities and then buffed the under used abilities. Lets assume they are going to do the same thing for CW.
So, here is a list of what we can expect to get nerfed (note, I am not proposing to nerf these abilities, I am guessing they will be nerfed based off the devs balance approach for other classes and guessing what the nerf will be.):
1) Chilling Presence. A realistic nerf would be back down to 1/2/3/4%.
2) Disintegrate. This hits about as hard as Ice knife which is a daily power, either its Cooldown will be massively increased, or its damage will be halved. I would like to see its tab mechanic reworked as well.
3) Spell Twisting. Completely kills CW cooldowns and eliminates recovery. Used by almost all CWs. I imagine it would be decreased to 5% per stack.
And possibly Icy Veins. The ones listed above are used by pretty much every single CW regardless of paragon. As a result, they perform, "above the power level" and are likely to be brought down. Storm Spell is actually balanced and I don't see it being nerfed any time soon, so it is not going onto that list.
Here is a list of what I expect would be buffed:
1) Arcane Power Field. This entire mechanic needs to be changed, it just doesn't work. Its damage is far too low and its condition is too specific to make it any good. Maybe if it was on encounter use gain arcane power field and even then, the damage would need to be increased.
2) Frost Wave. Similar to Arcane Power Field, the mechanic is too specific and the effect is too small. I would change it to on daily power use, reduce the control resistance of nearby enemies by 5/10/15/20% for 10 seconds. This would then work nicely with orb of imposition to make controlling monsters less of a fantasy.
3) Imprisonment. Make it no longer a channeled power, make it slow nearby enemies.
4) Storm Fury. Change it to when you or an ally within 30'are hit shock an enemy with a bolt. Give it an ICD and remove the reference to 50% HP.
5) Oppressor feats in general. I would change Shatter Strike so that it reduces opponents control resistance by 30%.
And possibly Maelstrom of Chaos.
Now, there are some changes I would like to be made to the class which are not on this list, specifically, I would like Storm Spell and Critical Conflagration to no longer be class features, I would like them to be built into each paragon. This way, SS CWs always have Storm Spell proccing on crits and MoF CWs always have smolder on crits. Those are the elements that make each paragon unique and it seems silly that you should only get the proper feeling of those paragons when using a single class feature. Now, this may sound unbalanced as it means that you are essentially gaining a class feature as a passive part of the class and freeing up a new slot, but this would likely be countered by a reduction in the effectiveness of chilling presence. I would realistically expect chilling presence to be halved in effectiveness, to 1/2/3/4% for a total of 24% on 6 stacks and 48% on frozen targets and that would still make it good in comparison to other class features. As it currently is, its a no brainer for CW and its the strongest class feature in the game. Changing Chilling Presence like this would essentially be like losing a class feature, because as it currently stands, chilling presence is currently as good as any other 2 class features added together, CW is essentially running around with 3 class features. By halving its effectiveness, we could then make room for CW having storm spell built into SS and Crit Conflag built into MoF.
Now, this means that there are 2 less class features for CW as those 2 are now built into the class. I would recommend changing them to further augment those parts of the paragon, so a feature I will currently call Äugmented Storm Spell" reducing the ICD of SS by 0.1s per rank and making it also proc on non crits, whilst "Augmented Crit Conflag" makes smolder proc on non crits and increases the damage dealt by smolder by 15% per rank.
Finally, I would like the Thaum capstone to also grant 10% more damage and for phantasmal destruction to provide the critical severity as a party wide buff. This would help each of the 3 paths to become more individual in and of themselves and highlight each of the paths as either a DPS, a Controller or a Buffer.
Now, as a PVE player, I can safely say we don't need much more damage as a CW, we don't need a huge DPS buff, which means that if more DPS is needed in PVP (which I don't know much about) it needs to be in a way that doesn't make CW OP in PVE. As a result, if you are a PVP player responding to this thread and asking for a damage boost, try to propose your boost in a way that doesn't inflate us in PVE, so for example making a particular attack do piercing damage at 50% effectiveness in pvp or something like that. Also, if your Suggestion is aimed at PVP or PVE, please identify it as such.
In addition, the bugs on this thread should be fixed.
Lets keep this constructive people
If you have been paying attention to the balance changes for SW, HR, GF and GWF, you will notice that 1 of the devs, @amenar (it seems he is responsible for class balance) has been very actively engaging with the community there and has been taking their feedback into consideration. What has also been evident however, is that there is a lot of dissent among the players providing feedback and there isn't really a unified front when it comes to the players providing feedback. There is a visible divide between the PVP players, the PVE players and then those who are ill informed and aren't actually looking to achieve balance. As a result of that, I propose we organize ourselves now, so that when our time does come (which will probably be in 4-5 months would be my guess) communication is smoother between us and the devs that way we come away feeling more satisfied about the result.
Now, as I see it the best way to go about this is to look at how other classes were balanced and assume CW will be balanced in a similar manner. So, what was notice able about the balance changes is they firstly nerfed the over used abilities and then buffed the under used abilities. Lets assume they are going to do the same thing for CW.
So, here is a list of what we can expect to get nerfed (note, I am not proposing to nerf these abilities, I am guessing they will be nerfed based off the devs balance approach for other classes and guessing what the nerf will be.):
1) Chilling Presence. A realistic nerf would be back down to 1/2/3/4%.
2) Disintegrate. This hits about as hard as Ice knife which is a daily power, either its Cooldown will be massively increased, or its damage will be halved. I would like to see its tab mechanic reworked as well.
3) Spell Twisting. Completely kills CW cooldowns and eliminates recovery. Used by almost all CWs. I imagine it would be decreased to 5% per stack.
And possibly Icy Veins. The ones listed above are used by pretty much every single CW regardless of paragon. As a result, they perform, "above the power level" and are likely to be brought down. Storm Spell is actually balanced and I don't see it being nerfed any time soon, so it is not going onto that list.
Here is a list of what I expect would be buffed:
1) Arcane Power Field. This entire mechanic needs to be changed, it just doesn't work. Its damage is far too low and its condition is too specific to make it any good. Maybe if it was on encounter use gain arcane power field and even then, the damage would need to be increased.
2) Frost Wave. Similar to Arcane Power Field, the mechanic is too specific and the effect is too small. I would change it to on daily power use, reduce the control resistance of nearby enemies by 5/10/15/20% for 10 seconds. This would then work nicely with orb of imposition to make controlling monsters less of a fantasy.
3) Imprisonment. Make it no longer a channeled power, make it slow nearby enemies.
4) Storm Fury. Change it to when you or an ally within 30'are hit shock an enemy with a bolt. Give it an ICD and remove the reference to 50% HP.
5) Oppressor feats in general. I would change Shatter Strike so that it reduces opponents control resistance by 30%.
And possibly Maelstrom of Chaos.
Now, there are some changes I would like to be made to the class which are not on this list, specifically, I would like Storm Spell and Critical Conflagration to no longer be class features, I would like them to be built into each paragon. This way, SS CWs always have Storm Spell proccing on crits and MoF CWs always have smolder on crits. Those are the elements that make each paragon unique and it seems silly that you should only get the proper feeling of those paragons when using a single class feature. Now, this may sound unbalanced as it means that you are essentially gaining a class feature as a passive part of the class and freeing up a new slot, but this would likely be countered by a reduction in the effectiveness of chilling presence. I would realistically expect chilling presence to be halved in effectiveness, to 1/2/3/4% for a total of 24% on 6 stacks and 48% on frozen targets and that would still make it good in comparison to other class features. As it currently is, its a no brainer for CW and its the strongest class feature in the game. Changing Chilling Presence like this would essentially be like losing a class feature, because as it currently stands, chilling presence is currently as good as any other 2 class features added together, CW is essentially running around with 3 class features. By halving its effectiveness, we could then make room for CW having storm spell built into SS and Crit Conflag built into MoF.
Now, this means that there are 2 less class features for CW as those 2 are now built into the class. I would recommend changing them to further augment those parts of the paragon, so a feature I will currently call Äugmented Storm Spell" reducing the ICD of SS by 0.1s per rank and making it also proc on non crits, whilst "Augmented Crit Conflag" makes smolder proc on non crits and increases the damage dealt by smolder by 15% per rank.
Finally, I would like the Thaum capstone to also grant 10% more damage and for phantasmal destruction to provide the critical severity as a party wide buff. This would help each of the 3 paths to become more individual in and of themselves and highlight each of the paths as either a DPS, a Controller or a Buffer.
Now, as a PVE player, I can safely say we don't need much more damage as a CW, we don't need a huge DPS buff, which means that if more DPS is needed in PVP (which I don't know much about) it needs to be in a way that doesn't make CW OP in PVE. As a result, if you are a PVP player responding to this thread and asking for a damage boost, try to propose your boost in a way that doesn't inflate us in PVE, so for example making a particular attack do piercing damage at 50% effectiveness in pvp or something like that. Also, if your Suggestion is aimed at PVP or PVE, please identify it as such.
In addition, the bugs on this thread should be fixed.
Lets keep this constructive people
Post edited by thefabricant on
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Comments
IF Thaumaturges and renegades want to control and deal and damage then to use chill powers! SO chilling presence is the free damage or icy veins instant 5 chills from every encounter?
ICY veins didnt make any sense since mod 6 non cold damage powers add chills? And not only apply chills but and 5!
ABOUT icy veins u use it and i get the boost from freeze with a lot better feats from thaumaturge tree. thanks for buffing my build:) AND also monsters have high cc resist if i remember well in all cases opressive force will have the full benefit from frozen state? or get icy veins vs castle never mobs?
ALSO about spell twisting there is no need to change. go make build without spell twisting with recovery if you like the recovery stat.
We already both talked in game about adding Storm Spell and Smolder on crits as class features of each paragon path, which would clear up both practically mandatory feature spots in many builds, opening up the door for more diversity. But with that, we should ask ourselves what we really want.
I think we need to more clearly define the feat trees. Oppressor needs to be a viable CC path. Thaumaturge should be a very competitive DPS tree (and possibly contain some goodies for PvPers). Renegade can be the buff/debuff support tree.
We know the Oppressor path is terrible and all but useless end game and on bosses. I'd love to see that addressed.
Thaumaturge and Renegade are in good spots, but they overlap a lot, too. Again, I'd be happy to see some DPS "oomph" added back up to the Thaumaturge tree to make it the clear DPS winner, but see more buff/debuff utility added into the Renegade.
The difference between the MoF and the SS is fairly clear right now. MoF brings more group debuffs. SS brings more DPS. I think that's fine. It gives you two more clear levers to pull when building out a character, and as long as those distinctions remain pretty clear, I'd be happy with it.
Of course there's also a ton of unused powers that should probably be buffed/re-worked to make them more viable as well.
I don't think the CW is in a bad spot right now. Honestly, I think from a DPS perspective, we're good...some classes need to be brought up, some down, but the CW is a good measuring stick (especially since it's done without relying on bugs). But I really would love to see the words CONTROL made meaningful again to the class.
That would be cool!
Regarding PvP I feel we have enough control with oppressor (some classes like GF/Pally have to much control resistance). I think we have good enough buffs with renegade (if they fix capstone). Thaum needs a buff because it lacks control/survivability and kills nothing with all the self-healing going on (I rather see them remove self-healings).
In PvE I feel oppressor needs a buff because most targets cant even be controlled.
Master of flame could need some more smolder damage.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
So is the expected trend with class balance is that they're nerfing everything current builds are centered on and buffing some bad powers slightly? This happened with SW and HR because they were bugged and GF because it was overperforming. CW doesn't really do any of that.
After the over reaction from the swiftness of the fox changes they'll probably be a little more delicate about how they deal with Spell twisting though (if they do anything to it at all; swiftness primarily was changed because it was bugged). I think they'd have a lot more specific language about them wanting to make cooldowns more significant and increase the importance of recovery if it was a central focus of their balance pass. They'd have to re-work all three trees for this to work out otherwise going thaum means about 10 of your feat points don't matter.
1) Elemental Synergies - similar to how the warlocks curse functions, synergies between element types would make the class even more dynamic and create diverse paths for builds & power rotations, while also adding to reward. For instance, ice could enhance lightning damage, while fire used before it even after lightning might trigger a stun or daze ( think thunderclap ).
2) Elemental masteries - why be a master of flame if you're only going to use 1 or 2 fire spells, if even that? Warlocks have a fireball animation and even a fiery at will power. We have FOF which just looks like a swirly kaboom. I wouldn't hate it if the skill trees became mastery trees, instead of the way they're current set up.
3) someone please give me a staff and an actual robe. If you're that stuck on the orb, just mount it on top of a staff = everybody wins.
I agree, CW doesn't seem in a bad spot right now. My only wishes were for a better support build being possible and control coming back in.
And the big elephant in the room is Crowd Control. The Control Wizard was literally suppose to be just that...a master of crowd control.
Again, the problem is that CC is useless against mobs you WANT to control, especially boss mobs. And it's useless against the mobs that you CAN control, because it's more efficient to just kill them quickly.
That's the fundamental question that needs to be addressed. What is the definition of "Control" for the Control Wizard?
Crowd Control doesn't have to be hard CC like stuns. And honestly, we've seen the problems that can happen when you add too many buffs. So maybe the solution is to make most of the CW's CC debuff-centric?
For example, have Chill reduce the movement speed of everything, even bosses. At six stacks, it won't root bosses, but they'll move 60% slower. Also given Oppressors a feat that makes Chill reduce the recharge on powers, or increase the cast time. For example, if a boss puts a splat down that activates in 2 seconds, if a CW debuffs the bosses cast time, it'll take 3 seconds, giving your group much more time to avoid the splat.
As it stands now, I think some of the damage buffs that are included in the class are fine, but maybe you can make it really shine with some unique debilitating powers in the Oppressor tree that actually make a difference in the hardest fights.
Something being overused is the definition of a balance problem under any reasonable system, and the devs have made it abundantly clear in the HR and SW reworks that they do follow such a system.
At the end of the day to various degrees the SW, the HR, the CW and the GWF at least have the same basic set of issues. Highly limited build options because all of the effective builds rely on one or two must have powers and/or feats.
I don't know know if we'll get combustive action by default. Were more likely to see an overall overhaul of what and when it's applied so that putting it on and keeping it up becomes more practical. In that respect i'd imagine one of the things they'll change is to push the paragon path at wills as the primary at wills for those paths outside of maybe specific optional feat paths. And i suspect the inevitable spells twisting and chill presence nerfs will do that all on their own. Having to stack more recovery is going to make charge based powers more practical and higher damage, and being able to unslot chilling presence is going to very harshly depreciate the value of chill applying powers. I also suspect we'll see our AoE's gain a common target cap to deal with ice conduit's current clear superiority.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
gwf after the balance on hr sw will be over the cw which is normal since they cant something else than to buff stamina with battle fury for pt and if they play battle fury.
ALSO we get a fix-buff in mod10 is big case to have 5 stacks of arcane in single target fights at the start( disintegrate now adds a arcane stack). ON live you cant stack arcane fast vs 1 target boss is already on half hp until you go 5;p
Good job this isn't that then isn't it.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
Secondly, nothing in the HR nerfs/buffs was done because anything was being overused or even overpowered. All the nerfs were dealing with bugs and all the buffs were an attempt to make Combat and Archery viable. They've even stated that they want to let Trapper continue to have low cooldowns. Literally nothing about the idea of a Spell Twisting nerf makes sense given the intent they've shown when balancing HR because they've essentially decided that all the supposed problems with Swiftness of the Fox are not problems. So when someone says Spell Twisting needs to be nerfed because it makes recovery useless and eliminates cooldowns they're basically saying that it's a problem for CW but not for HR.
Anyone that has decided there is an incoming spell twisting nerf is basically just screaming "PLEASE NERF THIS EVEN THOUGH YOU WEREN'T GOING TO." One thing people really need to deal with is the idea of not being defeatist and asking for nerfs that frankly don't need to happen.
1) Chilling Presence: Even without Icy veins, its REALLY easy to build chill stacks, about 2 seconds into combat you get the full benefit from this class feature. 48% is more than ANY other class feature in the game and the situational 96% is just absurd. I mean seriously, compare it to other CW class features, its twice as good as even the second best competitor, which just highlights how it is pretty much an auto include in every single build. This is not good, it is clearly above the power level of everything else and it limits diversity. This is why I expect it to get nerfed. The reason I guess 1/2/3/4% is because that totals to 24%, which puts it in line with other class features. Players will NOT swap back to eye of the storm like in mod 5, because we now have linear stat curves and the much higher amount of crit means you get better returns from other class features. This creates a choice between evocation, chilling presence and arcane presence, which is enhancing build diversity.
2) Disintegrate is also used in every build. Its used in single target rotations, its used in PVP, its used in AoE rotations. A very clear indicator that it is above the power level is to just compare it to Ice Knife. Ice Knife is a daily power, it costs action points and it is also a hard hitting single target ability. It does the same damage as Disintegrate and yet it consumes all your action points and doesn't have a base 8 second cooldown. Due to these factors, I think disintegrate will be brought down.
3) Spell Twisting is in the same situation as the above 2 things which is why it will likely be brought down. It is used by every build and creates less build diversity.
The reason I do not think Icy Veins should be nerfed and the reason I think it won't be nerfed is because firstly, it isn't used by every build, people alternate between it and abyss of chaos and secondly, it is easy to build chill stacks on bosses and maintain them, its not a necessary feat so much as a QoL improvement. Its main benefit is the additional burst damage it gives you at the start of a short fight, or clutch moment control.
Now, the reason zerg and I want Crit Conflag and Storm Spell to be a default mechanic built into either MoF or SS, is because the smolder and lightning mechanic are pretty much what define the paragons. As it currently stands, if you don't go out of your way to take storm spell, you are pretty much playing just a, "CW" when going SS and the paragon choice is completely meaningless. Whilst this is not true for MoF and its more a QoL change, it would be a change that makes the paragon feel a lot less clunky. Furthermore, by doing this, you make up for the damage you lose by nerfing chilling presence by building it into the class itself. This way, you have more options, whilst not nerfing the class. Finally, the replacement class features I proposed to where SS and Crit Conflag currently are, enable building non crit toons as well as enhancing the features and being potentially useful replacements, which is important as we don't want to lock all CWs into playing crit builds.
Secondly, nothing in the HR nerfs/buffs was done because anything was being overused or even overpowered. All the nerfs were dealing with bugs and all the buffs were an attempt to make Combat and Archery viable. They've even stated that they want to let Trapper continue to have low cooldowns. Literally nothing about the idea of a Spell Twisting nerf makes sense given the intent they've shown when balancing HR because they've essentially decided that all the supposed problems with Swiftness of the Fox are not problems. So when someone says Spell Twisting needs to be nerfed because it makes recovery useless and eliminates cooldowns they're basically saying that it's a problem for CW but not for HR.
Anyone that has decided there is an incoming spell twisting nerf is basically just screaming "PLEASE NERF THIS EVEN THOUGH YOU WEREN'T GOING TO." One thing people really need to deal with is the idea of not being defeatist and asking for nerfs that frankly don't need to happen.
They explicitly singled out overuse, (in the competitive DPS builds) of a handful of powers as an issue in the blogs. They explicitly singled out overuse of a specific feat build (trapper) as an issue.
Spell twisting and chilling presence are excellent examples of overuse of specific feats and class powers. They're explicitly the type of things they're setting out to address.
And yes you can deal with overuse by buffing underused stuff. Provided doing so results in the overused stuff being replaced in existing builds instead of people just combining the buffed stuff with the old well used stuff to perform even better.
The problem is that that just isn't really possibble with CHilling presence or Spell Twisting IMO. Chill stacks come too easily and encounter power are, and are intended to be a vital component of DPS in a working class for any source of cooldown reduction to not be a flat DPS buff.
I admit i'm a hardcore MOFF, (i like blowing up Alderaan's
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
That said, we could ask for the introduction of control eficiency:
for some targets you would have 'full control' -> slow (movement and recharge) freeze (root and hold) etc etc
for some targets you would have 'reduced control' -> slow maybe only on recharge speed, freeze root only (meaning the target can still swing at you) and so forth, each being a degraded version of the full control but that lasts the same length of time that the full control
In rare cases, targets would be control imune probably for mechanics (imagine a case a foe that is damage imune unless you let it enter a debuff zone in a limited timeframe or the mechanics make you wipe... if the target were controled it could be... problematic)
This could be applied in PvP along thel lines of if you have enough tenacity, yo go from potentially full controled to lesser controled
But as you can see it becomes a question of game mechanics not class mechanics
Failing that the control would need to come from things like walls of ice or other physical obstacles to throw on the path of the ennemies.
EDIT-
Another under developped concept is the elemental damage resistance. Nowadays, wether you hit with fire, lightning, cold, arcane, necrotic, radiant, psychic or whatever, it counts only for very specific self-buffs mainly for CW (the need for distinction disappear on SW with the rework of creeping death)
If the different foes had different elemental resistances, we could have more diversity. CW with its variety of elements could be less affected in certain cases. We could even push for having the wepon enhancement enchant add its element type to the 'normal damage' of the powers used in order to overcome some resistances or profit from some vulnerabilities.
The only way in which they compared the dailies in the blog was in terms of frequency of usage.
The thing is as i noted it's clear they want paragon specific stuff to be the core of each paragon. So with combustive action being seen as so necessary they've got two options, Incorporate combustive action by default and rework all 3 powers to make them still really desirable. Or nerf/change combustive action and make minor if any, (depending on how they address the DPS loss from chilling presence and spell twisting nerfs), to the paragon specifics and just let the new meta push us towards using them.
IMO if they made combustive action default MOFF's would require a much more radical redesign to keep paragon specific powers relevant.
If i had to shortlist things i'd like/expect to see i'd say on top of CP and ST nerfs we'd see:
Smoulder can now stack upto 6 times, applying cold refresh's the duration and transforms the stacks to rimfire smoulder. Arcane refreshes and transforms to arcane smolder.
Furious Immolation, Fanning the Flame, and Scorching Burst now apply extra stacks = to your arcane mastery ranks and Fanning the Flame applies smoulder to all targets in the area regardless of spell mastery.
Scorching Burst gain's decreased channeling time, (-0.1 to -0.2 seconds a rank), based on extra ranks.
Furious Immolation i'd like to see some back interaction with smoulder stacks, possibly bonus damage or maybe just boosting the damage of smoulder stacks on the target, (but stacking with this would have to be tightly controlled or else).
Critical Conflagration increases the number of stacks of smoulder, (but not rimefire or arcane) you can have by 2 per rank. Excess smoulder ranks beyond the cap will not be converted
Combustive action has it's bugs with non-smoulder damage boosting fixed and only works/triggers off arcane and rimefire smoulder.
The later two in particiular create an obvious dichotomy between smoulder stacking to the max and mixing your elements. 2 different builds for 2 different situations.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/comment/12854068/#Comment_12854068
Tyrannical threat is a terrible comparison given that it was letting SW melt bosses. Spell Twisting has a lot more in common with Swiftness of the Fox because it's also a feat that reduces cooldowns. I'd also argue that it's a bit silly to say that cooldowns are important when the class topping the DPS charts is doing it with at-wills and doesn't stack recovery at all.
The quest for that mythical balance where CW can use a bajillion class features and powers is a also bit silly. We all know that will never happen. They're never going to spend enough time on CW to do that. Advocating for balance based around that idea is just going to end up with the option to use a bunch of powers that are worse than what we already had or something will be broken and float to the top. Do you really trust cryptic enough to implement this properly? I'd have my doubts about them taking on such an ambitious project without HAMSTER something up and leaving it for a few mods.
The Shatter debuff applied on mobs is instantly consumed while they're already frozen, 5 second stun utterly wasted.
That wasn't why they changed it though. They changed tyrannical threat because it was overused.
You keep bringing up swiftness of the fox lie it has bearing here. It doesn't. They were fine with trappers using it to get low CD's and those low CD's. They where explicitly not fine with everyone having to go trapper to get swiftness of the fox, (and other stuff), to have an effective DPS build. And that is why Spell Twisting WILL get a nerf. Because it's somthing every build HAS to get to be effective.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin