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Official Feedback Thread: Scourge Warlock changes

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    Everybody dies who gets hit by the scorpion claw. The point is to not get hit. The laser is supposed to be intercepted by the tank. I am getting confused here.

    a warlock tracking him with DT buff 5 stack+debuff doesn´t get onehittet allways, did that many times and survived those hits, no soulforged involved nor shift as far as I remember, maybe deflect+ PVP build
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    macjae said:

    amenar said:

    Do you guys have a camera in here? This is what I was working on. The patch note will be:

    • Scourge Warlock: Infernal Spheres: No longer attacks enemies that get near you. Instead, sends a sphere out to targets that attack you.
    There are a couple of situations where this change may be undesirable, though. Infernal Spheres can be useful for a Soulbinder to build sparks quickly, and it's useful for tracking down stealthy targets as it hits them even if you can't see them.
    that´s what I used them before they got nerfed and never critted nor recharged my sparks any more...mod 6 i guess, but the damage they dealt that time was before drowned set/wheel/insignia crazyness more or less
    these days they will tickle the target and buff his negation/insignia selfheal, only advantage will be the DR buff i guess
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    Everybody dies who gets hit by the scorpion claw. The point is to not get hit. The laser is supposed to be intercepted by the tank. I am getting confused here.

    There is a big diference between what is suposed and what happens, and tanks shielding the lazer eye is a thing i've seen not happening many times. You can can argue "oh but that's why they have no idea how to tank", ok, true but the way spheres changed, they should at least protect us from danger by expending right(since the damage potential has lowered a lot) and their cleverness to act and do it in the right moment is....being kind, not too good. And the point was not if everybody gets or not one shoted by the scorps, the point was we need take damage to deal it, risking to get clawed because we can not predict how all of our fights will proceed and we may need some extra damage at some point to help the team clean faster and change powers mid battle never seemed like a genius idea to me, that is a protective power being counter productive. Scorpions is just a example, CN 2nd boss, CN fail to defeat adventurers on time.
    Post edited by treesclimber on

  • theraphotherapho Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Is there any chance that we could have the ability to change builds or rotations outside of combat? I have seen this in other MMOs. I'd be willing to pay Zen to be able to switch builds.
    Therapho Sidae
    Are you having a Relapse?

  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    In my memory spheres were/are a situational encounter, some used it in PVP before they broke it, some used it to apply lesser curse/gain sparks + curseconsuming encounter like firy bolt. But it never was a good dps encounter... now it´s has a defensive effect wich might help sometimes/situationally.
    Not sure what the damage will be like atm, but I doubt it can hold against any aoe encounter nor SoulScorch/KF and since we got ACC it´s not that needed anyway to apply LC, if you got enough crit.
    I may use the DR buff up to 35% , wich is huge, and facetank singletargets using BoVa+SS, and I would try it in PVP, where it might help situationally for DR-buff/tracking/spark gain
    Facing a GWF f.e. may work, IS+WB+Bova-shift-HoB-shift, recast IS etc., maybe it will work that ...way mabe not, depends on the GWF, but you can benefit from LC proc+ DR buff even not using ACC but BT+Slip or warding curse.
    I guess a templock will be pretty indestructable, uising elvenbattle+IS+Bova+WB , maybe darkness temp tier4 feat on top... he hardly will kill anyone either :)
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    If you want to use infernal spheres as a way to gain soul sparks, hit the encounter again after its active to force attack. Easy. I argue its better to use essense defiler on a cursed target, though.

    I dont understand the eLoL scorpion bit. The spheres could be designed to not shoot off until x amount of damage is received. Therefore, the first time a scorpion hits you, it could techically take off all spheres or just one.

    Plus, spheres should not keep you alive from the scorpions, but dodging and running should. I dont want a god-mode encounter to solo face tank the scorpions while standing in lava.
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  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    d4rkh0rs3 said:

    If you want to use infernal spheres as a way to gain soul sparks, hit the encounter again after its active to force attack. Easy. I argue its better to use essense defiler on a cursed target, though.



    I dont understand the eLoL scorpion bit. The spheres could be designed to not shoot off until x amount of damage is received. Therefore, the first time a scorpion hits you, it could techically take off all spheres or just one.



    Plus, spheres should not keep you alive from the scorpions, but dodging and running should. I dont want a god-mode encounter to solo face tank the scorpions while standing in lava.

    DT(on live) stacks way over that, stacks damage, deal more damage yet it's not even near to make SW's GOD's or making them swim in lava pools i've seen only a hand full of them doing something similar so far, but if you dodge why use IS? If they just deal damage if you get damage, and the amount of times you can get damage in those dangerous situations is small, slot another encounter, contribute much more to your team progress and dont risk yourself dying.....they simply make no sence to me now honestly, last time on preview a CW consumed them like homer eating donuts, not a single scrathch and i dindn't had my "life expectancy" improved any better with them even trying to gain some distance waiting for Soul sparks to heal me.
    macjae said:

    The legacy Fabled Iliyanbruen Scourge Warlock set from the Sharandar zone may need to be looked at to change the mechanics, as its damage scales far too well. This set is no longer available, but inflicts damage based on a target's total health and can be used to achieve some pretty big damage. Obviously, it doesn't have the stats of level 70 equipment (particularly hit points), but the set bonus scales massively. Of course, this consideration also holds for a number of other old level 60 sets that are now no longer available -- High Vizier, High Prophet, probably others -- having set bonuses that are still the best choice to use in many cases.

    Yessss!! I wrote 2 tickets to the support in the last months about this, KK, HV and HP sets the answer i got something like "we introduce items on the game so players can try and decide wich is better for them, trying it themselves". I honestly hope they get some change soon.

  • pr3stigexpr3stigex Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    pr3stigex said:

    @fernuu
    Thx for testing. It bothers me a bit, since you can be called a pretty good warlock on the server. What will an "average" player look like, since GWF has to be called the most easiest class to play in terms of getting rewarded by a respectabel ammount of damage even without paying too much attention.
    I hope single target damage will stay acceptable.
    I will never spend any point into arms of hadar btw because its an insult and hurts too much using that power.

    LOL, so let me get this straight, a puppet is doing most of your damage yet GWF is the easiest class to play? Who spiked the punch, seems like a bunch of people think that the GWF is easy, make one and out dps me, then you can talk.
    Since I play that class I can judge and I do not want to discuss trivial, known issues in this thread, with someone who personally gets touched by getting told his class is easier than others to level, to play and to deal acceptable damage, no need for epeen games, look for another thread.
    There are 1000 GWF´s wich deal good damage and get there without investing too much into the class, and there are maybe few exeptional player doing astronomic damage.
    Other classes are not by far that rewarding in short time by slotting some azures in offense slots, it takes time, and there is no discussion about broken feats/powers anyway. They are known and only some xbox dudes believe it has to be skill (that´s what I was told by xbox player, no offense in general)
    Anyway, those epeen-competitions normally look like this: Somone runs ahead hyperactivley and prevents any kind of contest or balance investigations by swinging his epeen at the mobs :) i allready experienced those kiddy runs
    Since I also play the class I'm pretty sure I can judge as well, All the classes are easy to play. Non of them are really all that skill based.

    GWF run up mark them, hidden daggers, throw in some WMS to debuff and top off determination a couple SS to make sure destroyer is stacked, tab unstoppable Hidden daggers IBS and then spam SS. Rinse and repeat.

    SW run up pop TT, hit them with WB or HG, DT/BoVA spam SS. while flailing your arms in the air spinning like a demonic stripper, while the puppet kills everything. Or TT, BoVA ,spam SS and finish with broken flames. Seems pretty easy to me.

    I take that back, SW goes like this....group with GF, the end. lol
    Lash Urzoth 3.7k GWF, Pr3sTiGe 3k SW.
  • muckingfuppetmuckingfuppet Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    there is no point in trying to balance the sw if they ain't going to fix mf
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  • candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    macjae said:

    The legacy Fabled Iliyanbruen Scourge Warlock set from the Sharandar zone may need to be looked at to change the mechanics, as its damage scales far too well. This set is no longer available, but inflicts damage based on a target's total health and can be used to achieve some pretty big damage. Obviously, it doesn't have the stats of level 70 equipment (particularly hit points), but the set bonus scales massively. Of course, this consideration also holds for a number of other old level 60 sets that are now no longer available -- High Vizier, High Prophet, probably others -- having set bonuses that are still the best choice to use in many cases.

    It's WAI so no problem at all, you probably savaged it xD
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    Feedback: Tyrannical Curse

    There should be some rework on this one to make it better to use. The damage link should be increased by a bit now that you can only link the x% of damage from 1 target and not 3. Personally I mean it should also work like the old TT with taking the place of the curse tab function so you can replace the TC on a new target if the main dies. The new improved casting time and mobility fixes are very nice though. It should also be possible to cast before entering combat, like the old TT, but the new cast time and animation should remain.

    Feedback: Temptation Cap feat

    I know it has been stated Temptation will have to go for another balance, but one important issue could be adressed. It seems now that the outgoing healing from the cap feat is coming from the target that has been hit, and not the SW. This meaning the SW and the allies have to go up close to the target to be affected by the heal, the range also seem quite short.

    To improve this the outgoing healing should go out from the SW, so that the SW can position itself to heal others and allways be affected by its own heals, like other healers. The range should also be something like the Oath of Devotion range for OP.
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  • amenaramenar Member, NW_CrypticDev Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    OK all, here's another set. Nearing the end of what we'll be doing before this module goes live. We still have some time for emergency fixes and such, but... anymore than that, and I'm gonna get some serious glares from our producers. That doesn't mean no changes will ever happen again, but the builds gotta get all the approvals and translations and blah blah blah. Anyhow, here they are:
    • Scourge Warlock: Arms of Hadar: Prone time is now 1 second, instead of ending almost immediately.
    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Feature: Deadly Curse: Now deals the damage it states in the tooltip, instead of considerably less.
    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Feature: Prince of Hell: Now increases Damage Resistance by 5%, instead of Defense Rating.
    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Feature: Snuff Out: Now causes Snuff Out to have a 50% chance to grant an additional Soul Spark when a target dies within range, instead of granting 150 Life Steal Rating.
    • Scourge Warlock: Dreadtheft: The stacks generated by Curse Synergy with Dreadtheft now cap at 3, down from 5. However, the amount of Damage Resistance granted by each stack has been increased.
    • Scourge Warlock: Eldritch Blast: Increased the damage of the first hit of this combo by ~33%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Flames of Phlegethos: Damage increased ~40%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Gates of Hell: Activation time further reduced to 1.9s, down from 2.2s.
    • Scourge Warlock: Gates of Hell: Prone time is now 1.5 seconds, instead of ending almost immediately.
    • Scourge Warlock: Hellish Rebuke: DoT damage increased another 50%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Hellish Rebuke: The damage reflect component of this power can now be triggered on each target once per second, up from once per 2 seconds.
    • Scourge Warlock: Infernal Spheres: No longer attacks enemies that get near you. Instead, sends a sphere out to targets that attack you.
    • Scourge Warlock: Infernal Spheres: Now regenerates a sphere every 5s while the power is active. Running out of spheres will cause the power to deactivate. Alternatively, you may activate the power again to cause all remaning spheres to explode, dealing damage around you.
    • Scourge Warlock: Killing Flames: Minimum damage increased ~67%. Maximum damage is unchanged, but damage ramping has increased, such that maximum damage is now reached when the target is at or below 25% HP, instead of at 0 HP.
    • Scourge Warlock: No Pity, No Mercy: In addition to its current effect on Combat Advantage, this power now changes the way Hellish Rebuke functions. With this Class Feature slotted, Hellish Rebuke no longer deals damage over time. Instead, the initial hit of damage and any damage reflects caused by Hellish Rebuke deal 50% more damage.
    • Scourge Warlock: Soul Sparks: No longer display the words "Soul Spark" whenever you gain one.
    • Scourge Warlock: Soul Sparks: No longer immediately consumed when combat ends. Instead, one is consumed every 0.5s you are out of combat. This means at full stacks (30) it will take 15 seconds for them all to be consumed. If you re-enter combat, the passive consumption of Soul Sparks will stop.
    • Scourge Warlock: Warlock's Curse: No longer grants less of a benefit when on multiple targets.
    A couple of these are pretty big changes to the feel of powers. The new way Soul Sparks and Infernal Spheres work feels pretty awesome in the play tests we've been doing. Hopefully these changes work out well for you all, it's been awesome working with you guys to get these to you.

    EDIT - I SHOULD MENTION - this won't make it into the patch that should be hitting preview today or earlier next week. That build was made earlier this week, and these changes are just getting into the next build.
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    .
    Post edited by pyrosorcerer on
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    And again, @amenar , fantastic work! Patch notes looks great, looking forward to testing them.
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  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    amenar said:

    OK all, here's another set. Nearing the end of what we'll be doing before this module goes live. We still have some time for emergency fixes and such, but... anymore than that, and I'm gonna get some serious glares from our producers. That doesn't mean no changes will ever happen again, but the builds gotta get all the approvals and translations and blah blah blah. Anyhow, here they are:

    • Scourge Warlock: Arms of Hadar: Prone time is now 1 second, instead of ending almost immediately.
    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Feature: Deadly Curse: Now deals the damage it states in the tooltip, instead of considerably less.
    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Feature: Prince of Hell: Now increases Damage Resistance by 5%, instead of Defense Rating.
    • Scourge Warlock: Artifact Class Feature: Snuff Out: Now causes Snuff Out to have a 50% chance to grant an additional Soul Spark when a target dies within range, instead of granting 150 Life Steal Rating.
    • Scourge Warlock: Dreadtheft: The stacks generated by Curse Synergy with Dreadtheft now cap at 3, down from 5. However, the amount of Damage Resistance granted by each stack has been increased.
    • Scourge Warlock: Eldritch Blast: Increased the damage of the first hit of this combo by ~33%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Flames of Phlegethos: Damage increased ~40%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Gates of Hell: Activation time further reduced to 1.9s, down from 2.2s.
    • Scourge Warlock: Gates of Hell: Prone time is now 1.5 seconds, instead of ending almost immediately.
    • Scourge Warlock: Hellish Rebuke: DoT damage increased another 50%.
    • Scourge Warlock: Hellish Rebuke: The damage reflect component of this power can now be triggered on each target once per second, up from once per 2 seconds.
    • Scourge Warlock: Infernal Spheres: No longer attacks enemies that get near you. Instead, sends a sphere out to targets that attack you.
    • Scourge Warlock: Infernal Spheres: Now regenerates a sphere every 5s while the power is active. Running out of spheres will cause the power to deactivate. Alternatively, you may activate the power again to cause all remaning spheres to explode, dealing damage around you.
    • Scourge Warlock: Killing Flames: Minimum damage increased ~67%. Maximum damage is unchanged, but damage ramping has increased, such that maximum damage is now reached when the target is at or below 25% HP, instead of at 0 HP.
    • Scourge Warlock: No Pity, No Mercy: In addition to its current effect on Combat Advantage, this power now changes the way Hellish Rebuke functions. With this Class Feature slotted, Hellish Rebuke no longer deals damage over time. Instead, the initial hit of damage and any damage reflects caused by Hellish Rebuke deal 50% more damage.
    • Scourge Warlock: Soul Sparks: No longer display the words "Soul Spark" whenever you gain one.
    • Scourge Warlock: Soul Sparks: No longer immediately consumed when combat ends. Instead, one is consumed every 0.5s you are out of combat. This means at full stacks (30) it will take 15 seconds for them all to be consumed. If you re-enter combat, the passive consumption of Soul Sparks will stop.
    • Scourge Warlock: Warlock's Curse: No longer grants less of a benefit when on multiple targets.


    A couple of these are pretty big changes to the feel of powers. The new way Soul Sparks and Infernal Spheres work feels pretty awesome in the play tests we've been doing. Hopefully these changes work out well for you all, it's been awesome working with you guys to get these to you.
    So more like that it.? All balancing stuffs for warlock?

    Ok lets calculate.

    TT dmg boost fixed so instead 40% power boost now does 20%. Ok, so 50% output gone, next instead 3 targets now we have 1. Thats mean another -20% TT performance. So 50% +20% = we lost 70%. daily powers performance. compared to live server,

    Whats done its done so be it.

    Next we received fiery bolt high dmg boost. Sounds nice. So lets say it boost performance by 20%. So now we have -50%.

    Gate of hell dmg buff + puny CC effect. lets assume its boost performance by 15%. So still we have -35%.

    Gatekeeper's Empowerment rework for single target at will only. = -15%. So -50% once again.
    Hellish rebuke buffing, since its kinda least usable power, and kinda hand of blight spaming is better option by HB, I can asume +10% performance boost. so we now have -25%. So close.
    Now add all other changes including shift mechanic. so we get -5%, nothing special.

    But wait, didn't this balancing was to bring sw somewhere near other strikers???

    We twisted warlocks power so that it can compete with himself alone. Furry HB vs damination HB, vs Temptation HB.
    SB vs other soulbinder. maybe with DC. But CW, not a chance.. I so 2.5k Gs Cw master of flame performance in preivew, and my Furry HB have 0 chance to compete with him. Even our gs are not so different. So it will remain as where before, 3k gs sw can compete with 2.5k other striker classes.

    Oh well, was fun to play with SW, but looks like its time to put warlock to coffin and keep for mod 18. when real changes will occur. Till that probably better play with Nuker/Blaster CW or Bulldozer GWF.

    p.s sorry for sarcasm, I expected more. Changes and problems solving why SW performance laging. And that these changes put as near others. Now we will lag behind even more by over all performance.. And I talk about mainstream players... Not 3.5k SW,s who can give competition to 2.6k CW/ gwf, HR
    ========================================================================
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  • agante22agante22 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Well said bloody I have to agree with you. Haven't tested the most recent updates to come back we are still far away from a competitive striker class. The damage output just isn't there and the changes implemented thus far are not enough.
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  • glartyglarty Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 123 Arc User
    Suggestion TC

    Uses 50% AP, activation time half current duration, effect duration half current duration, cannot be applied again till current activation has ended.
  • mutjinninjamutjinninja Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 93 Arc User
    That slower soul spark consumption must have been their answer to the AP gain that out SB SWs for ahead of HB warlocks. Well thanks for that. I didn't know this coffin could take any more nails, but you managed to find a spot to hammer it in. Class "balance" that's heavy on nerfs without a singular buff to make us desirable isn't balance. TT has been nerfed (since its inception) to Narnia and back. Where's my last minute change that saves the day? Like with CWs and Storm Spell back in mod 3 when you broke them terribly. Because as these notes stand, I'm stripping down my SW and moving on to greener pastures. The warlock, with your good intentions paving the way, is now dead and far behind CW and HR and maybe even TR in terms of dps output.

    The question we must ask now, as it is election season, is: "Are we better off now than [a mod] ago?"

    The answer is no. Plain and simple. For all your efforts and thought out plans, you have made us worse off. In the end, this "balance" run with the goal of making the SW competitive and nonreliant on broken buffs and feats has failed.
  • agante22agante22 Member Posts: 13 Arc User

    That slower soul spark consumption must have been their answer to the AP gain that out SB SWs for ahead of HB warlocks. Well thanks for that. I didn't know this coffin could take any more nails, but you managed to find a spot to hammer it in. Class "balance" that's heavy on nerfs without a singular buff to make us desirable isn't balance. TT has been nerfed (since its inception) to Narnia and back. Where's my last minute change that saves the day? Like with CWs and Storm Spell back in mod 3 when you broke them terribly. Because as these notes stand, I'm stripping down my SW and moving on to greener pastures. The warlock, with your good intentions paving the way, is now dead and far behind CW and HR and maybe even TR in terms of dps output.



    The question we must ask now, as it is election season, is: "Are we better off now than [a mod] ago?"



    The answer is no. Plain and simple. For all your efforts and thought out plans, you have made us worse off. In the end, this "balance" run with the goal of making the SW competitive and nonreliant on broken buffs and feats has failed.

    Your doom and gloom post is doing nothing to further our agenda of class balance. The most recent changes they are implementing are a step in the right direction but we need more dialogue, data, and comparisons to others class.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Pah, no change to gates of hell's targeting? Well, at least HB has one decent class feature, if the change to rebuke proves to be good at all...
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    @amenar

    I mean this sincerely, you have been the most attentive Dev in any round of Class Balancing / Feedback / Discussion, ever (this is for all classes).

    The players appreciation cannot be expressed enough, as you've handled yourself professionally, patiently, and amazingly.

    @strumslinger

    You need to tell your higher ups how much Amenar rocks, and then tell then again and again. :)
    va8Ru.gif
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    @amenar Thank you so much
    You did 1000% in 2 weeks of what have been done in 2 years
    Never thought this would ever happen
  • flowcytoflowcyto Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Even if in the end this may not all be 'enough' to keep SW's very competitive as Strikers, I do appreciate Amenar giving us all of this crunch-time. Weening the class off of its buggy components and trying to fill that gap w/ more legitimately performing powers while promoting more build variety isn't an easy task, and should be lauded. I do hope that smaller tweaks down the line can come to HB in particular to make it better, and who knows? When/if they ever re-vamp Tempt, we'll prob get another chance at general SW buffs as well.
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  • lihin23nihillihin23nihil Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    @amenar
    Re the Soul Spark change, obviously we need to test this but it sounds like a change that will impact a few builds significantly - some positively, some negatively.

    Have you tested what happens if you removed the 'out of combat' trigger and soul sparks always decayed at that rate whether in or out of combat?
    Would the healing and potential AP gain from Dust to Dust get crazy? Are there other interactions to be wary of?
    Because it feels as if the healing and AP gain has taken a significant nerf otherwise.
This discussion has been closed.