Forum GFs are constantly trying to mislead the devs by saying GF is a bad tank, has low DPS, can't compete in PVP, etc. But, we know the truth. Hopefully things are done to balance GF once and for all without listening to these voices.
Why don't you and your GF Nerf requests rack off back to your GWF feedback thread and keep your QQing there. Do you see the GF's posting drivel on the GWF feedback thread like you seem to like doing here or on the multitude of other GF nerf threads that have been going on for the last few months?
Seriously its like he has a vendetta with it or something.
@zman81420, ITF only scaled off DR since mod 6. that is a pretty loose definition of years you have. GF is not ruined, just changed. all your gear is perfectly fine still. Adaption is something you face in every single MMO out there and all of them have reworks on a larger scale than this
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@zman81420, ITF only scaled off DR since mod 6. that is a pretty loose definition of years you have. GF is not ruined, just changed. all your gear is perfectly fine still. Adaption is something you face in every single MMO out there and all of them have reworks on a larger scale than this
i concur this, and doesnt tactician gain more AP based on their DR ?
I agree, DR is still useful, although not if you've stacked it over 80%.
I think the Tact AP gain is based on the damage you take, not sure if this is before or after DR reduction. I'm not sure and can't check
0
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
AOD
Anvil of Doom: No longer deals double damage to targets below 40% health. Instead, deals full damage again over 5 seconds to targets below 50% health
Does anyone know if the full damage again (as DOT) is really double damage (i.e. takes into account crit, buffs etc.) or is more like the LOL set where it is the full weapon damage again as a DOT.
Because if its the same amount of damage as before, just half of it as DOT. Then that's nothing really to complain about at all and I'd be happy enough with the GF balancing (but I would like to see TOI and LS un-nerfed plz).
Anvil of Doom: No longer deals double damage to targets below 40% health. Instead, deals full damage again over 5 seconds to targets below 50% health
Does anyone know if the full damage again (as DOT) is really double damage (i.e. takes into account crit, buffs etc.) or is more like the LOL set where it is the full weapon damage again as a DOT.
Because if its the same amount of damage as before, just half of it as DOT. Then that's nothing really to complain about at all and I'd be happy enough with the GF balancing (but I would like to see TOI and LS un-nerfed plz).
yes, if you crit and do 50k anvil damage you get 5 hits of 10k damage (also classed as crits). I have no idea if that dot would be boosted in damage if an extra buff/debuff got applied while the dot was ticking but after anvil landed
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Feedback: Power: Steel Grace Awesome change,but not for the right power.GFs are slow snails and thus both Iron Vanguards and Sword Masters should have this,not just SMs.
Feedback: Power: Steel Grace FEEDBACK: I agree with @peregr1nus. This is awesome change, but not for the right power. I think this kind of change, for instance, of "Shield talent" would be better.
I agree, DR is still useful, although not if you've stacked it over 80%.
AFAIK that's not correct. The 80% DR cap is applied after armor penetration et. al. were applied (at least this is what one of the devs posted a long time ago).
In PvP a DR higher than 80% helps. In PvE it should help if monsters have something like ArP (which I don't know).
Steel defense: Either get rid of your lag spikes, animation time for dailies and powers or raise the immunity frame again. When tanking Orcus I have either my shield raised, dmg immunity from steel defense or I am dead. He one shots me with T.Feytouched and more than 80% DR. As is, it is a challenge with the lags. to use ITF etc, before the immunity frame runs out.
If this changes go live I will spec conqueror, so I can at last deal some dmg, while turtle tanking the boss.
@zman81420, ITF only scaled off DR since mod 6. that is a pretty loose definition of years you have. GF is not ruined, just changed. all your gear is perfectly fine still. Adaption is something you face in every single MMO out there and all of them have reworks on a larger scale than this
i concur this, and doesnt tactician gain more AP based on their DR ?
Of course you would. You're not looking 5+ million AD to rework your character after this patch.
Bug: Feat: Powerful Strike this feat doesn't work, Line Breaker Assault cooldown is not reduced when you hit targets.
Bug: General On the preview server there is an huge bug regarding Action points gain which doesn't increase when you get hitted.
Feedback: Power: Line Breaker Assault even with the upcoming changes no one will use this power, it's almost useless: insignificant dmg, long cooldown, and the dazing effect is too short. i've tried it on preview and there is no chance to use it: that short dazing effect doesn't give you any pro due to the time lost during the power animation... i would suggest an increase of the dazing effect maybe up to 3 or 4s.
Feedback: Power: Knight's Challenge This power is way too overpowered in PVP, please take a look at it. My suggestion is to make it less effective against players. With this power GFs can hit (with not even a complete rotation) a fully geared player with full tenacity for more than 220k hit points without any debuffs on target. Under some circumstances (debuffs), reaching that amount of damage just needs a Bullcharge.
Quit comparing "The Few PvP" to the many "PvE". Knights challenge is what helps up smoke the enemies that cc, stun and root us to death. So what's so bad about us having our own advantage? If I can fight through a 1 v 4 and survive it's huge but 11 times out of 10 this is not the case. Knights challenge is very useful for soloing dailies. Leave it be, we can all find a way to have an advantage over any class so quit complaining. Where class balancing occurs is when people whine and cry about getting owned, can't spec properly and in doing so ruin classes along the way with their salty trail of tears.
Guardian Fighter: SM Conqueror
[]Full Metal Witch[] 4149 TiL Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best" "Nobody does it better" #TLO BiS
@zman81420, ITF only scaled off DR since mod 6. that is a pretty loose definition of years you have. GF is not ruined, just changed. all your gear is perfectly fine still. Adaption is something you face in every single MMO out there and all of them have reworks on a larger scale than this
i concur this, and doesnt tactician gain more AP based on their DR ?
Of course you would. You're not looking 5+ million AD to rework your character after this patch.
As urabask said,they dont main GF so the dont care for this since they will not be spending milions of ADs to adapt build.Meanwhile they care a lot for KC nerf,though this demand is fair but-
Forum GFs are constantly trying to mislead the devs by saying GF is a bad tank, has low DPS, can't compete in PVP, etc. But, we know the truth. Hopefully things are done to balance GF once and for all without listening to these voices.
Id hope for less voices of other classes demanding nerfs over nerfs.
Nice day.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited July 2016
There were two skills you had to nerf, TWO. Into The Fray and Knight's Challenge. You managed to miss 50% of them. Instead you go ahead and tweak the whole class with clueless changes like the reduced target cap of Enforced threat or reduced duration of Villain's Menace, or the damage resistance debuff of Tide of Iron that wil now affect only the GF (lol). Powers that had done nothing wrong and caused no trouble, but you decided to go ahead and nerf them just because. Well done.
Commander's Strike: Increased the damage at Rank 1, and decreased the damage bonus gained for Rank Ups to 10%, down from 15%. Net effect is ~10% more damage at Rank 1, and a very slight damage increase at Rank 4. Commander's Strike: Now generates Action Points at roughly the same rate as other Encounter powers, instead of generating no Action Points. Commander's Strike: Now has an activation time of 0.8s, instead of having no activation time. Commander's Strike: Range reduced to 12', down from 13'. Commander's Strike: Recharge time increased to 12s, up from 10s. Commander's Strike: Reworked the buff this power provides. First, instead of triggering the one-shot bonus damage from any damage dealing power, it now only triggers from Encounter powers, insuring a decent amount of damage is dealt. Second, instead of only working against the specific target that was hit by Commander's Strike, it now triggers when hitting any Marked target. This should make it easier for your allies to find an appropriate target to get the benefit. The buff duration is no longer increased by ranking this power up. Commander's Strike: This power is now properly affected by damage bufs, debuffs, and damage resistances.
Feedback: Power: Commander's Strike FEEDBACK: If the intent is to insure a decent amount of damage wouldn't it be better to proc from both encounter and daily use?
Enforced Threat: Damage increased ~50%. Enforced Threat: Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 15s. Enforced Threat: Target cap reduced to 10, down from 20. Enforced Threat: Updated the rank up information to show that this power gains an additional 10% damage per rank. This is the existing behavior, and this is just a display change.
Feedback: Power: Enforced Threat FEEDBACK: Reducing the target cap is a BAD idea for two reasons: Fist it is a major damage NERF, since it now hits half as many targets and is one of our few AOE encounters. Second this also means we can only taunt half as many targets, reducing our ability to tank. SUGGESTION: Leave the target cap at 20.
Into the Fray: No longer increases damage by a percentage of your damage resistance. Now grants a flat +15% damage bonus, + 5% more per rank. Into the Fray: Now also increases the amount of Temp HP conversion with each rank up.
Feedback: Power: Into the Fray FEEDBACK: Obviously a major reduction in a GF's damage buffing ability AND personal damage ability, which is of course intended. SUGGESTION: Make the amount of Temp HP this gives actually noticeable (on X-Box I actually cannot even see the yellow bar for temp HP this gives to my party) Such as 5% plus 5% per rank. Also: Reduce activation time and make it usable while moving.
Lunging Strike: Acquiring Rank 4 of this power will now properly increase its range by 5'.
Lunging Strike: Damage to secondary targets increased to 2/3, up from 1/3.
Lunging Strike: No longer generates additional AP when hitting multiple targets.
Lunging Strike: Recharge time increased to 12s, up from 8s.
Lunging Strike: Using this power near the maximum range of the lunge will now bring you closer to the target, and should not leave you out of range of your other powers (unless your target is moving away from you fast enough to get back out of range).
Feedback: Power: Lunging Strike FEEDBACK: The increase in recharge time is unnecessary: This is one of the GF's primary mobility skills to allow us to do our duties esp in large battles such as Demogorgon. (And it is fun.)
Tide of Iron: Range increased to 12', up from 11'.
Tide of Iron: The Damage Resistance debuff now only applies for the caster, instead of the entire party.
Feedback: Power: Tide of Iron FEEDBACK: The change to the damage resistance debuff to caster only is completely unnecessary, the power's main purpose was to apply this dubuff for the party.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
@dannydark007#2612 has a knack for identifying truly salient issues. Many of the GF changes are fine (to my jack-of-all-trades eyes), but the above includes all the ones I see causing more problems than they solve.
Bug: Power: Into the Fray Temp hitpoints from ITF don't drop off when combat ends. This isn't a preview-specific bug, as it behaves this way on live as well. The amount of temp HPs you get is utterly miniscule, so the actual effect is moot, but it is inconsistent with the changes to temp HPs in general.
@dannydark007#2612, Regarding the "nerf" to ET, How often do you fight more than 10 mobs at once in a dungeon? how about in solo content? Mobs come in packs of 5-6 a piece. If you pull 2 packs you now have 10-12 to fight. I would say that 95% of the player base is not pulling 20 mobs to fighting a dungeon (exceptions are in CN at the start and in the Hall of mirrors, trash mobs that are easily cleared so EF hitting more of them is negligible, and if your party has trouble fighting 20 mobs then you should be making smaller pulls). In solo play people rarely pull 20 mobs together to beat up unless they are doing one of the supply HEs in the Stronghold, and there if you are good enough to handle those 20 mobs the decrease in the target cap to ET is unlikely to increase your clear time by more than 10-15 seconds.
Simply put, in the vast, vast majority of use cases, and for most of the population, ET has been buffed significantly because of the damage boost and reduced cooldown.
your other points however are very valid and I fully support them
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Would it be possible to look into Anvil and how it bugs out (deals no damage but goes on cooldown) if your target is lower than yourself (due to either you jumping at that moment, or because of elevation issues (stairs, hills)
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Steel Defense: Reduced immunity duration to 2s +0.5s per rank up (3.5s max), down from 3s +1s per rank up (6s max).
Why take it down to 3.5 , a pally bubble last 6 seconds and it protects the whole team, Steal defence is only effects GFs. This was never abused to begin with, when u cut fray and the other powers u pretty much killed the buffing gfs, so having no high AP gain, therefore stopping this from being abused if at all. And if...... and I mean if .....it was too powerful it was only cause the DR was so high it was proc'ing off the tact. Endcap making it come back abnormally fast. Which again won't happen anymore cause it's pointless to stack over 80% DR!
Bug: Power/Feat interaction: Combat superiority/Tactical superiority When you put the 5th feat point into tactical superiority it stops combat superiority from proccing. This is probably due to some old code still disabling combat superiority at 5/5 feat points.
Feedback: Steel grace artifact offhand bonus This reworked class feature still has the old artifact offhand bonus of +10% extra control resistance. Perhaps this could be changed so it provides another 1% crit/deflect and 2.5% movespeed?
Feedback: Power: Weapon master strike Making this aoe atwill target locked makes it a lot more annoying to use and can make it harder to hit all enemies from a group. Consider removing the target lock so it works as on live now. The damage bonus on the 'main' target could then be replaced to the first target hit instead. Ideally the increased damage against a single target is simply removed and replaced with a plain 10-30% damage increase instead as this is a very counter intuitive mechanic for an aoe slash
Feedback: Power: Anvil of doom A 5 second dot after a hit under 50% health seems a bit long, chances are the mob is already dead before the dot has ran its course. Consider shortening the duration to 2-3 seconds while maintaining the same total damage.
Feedback: Power: Enforced threat The reduction of the target cap will in some situations lead to not all mobs being aggroed after using this ability forcing you to run after them so they dont murder your partymembers. Consider putting the target cap back to 20 as that should be sufficient for almost every situation.
Feedback: Power: Villain's menace This power is the only one we can use to enjoy a short time of being immune to cc so we can cast some abilities without worrying about being disrupted by mobs in the heat of battle. Looking at the very lengthy cast time it has we need all those precious cc immune seconds. Please consider reverting the duration to its original value.
As for the people that are saying that knight's challenge needs adjusting I disagree. It is a high risk high reward ability that puts the gf in just as much danger as its target and it has a lengthy cast animation as well that leaves the gf totally vulnerable. A true double edged sword.
Comments
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
I think the Tact AP gain is based on the damage you take, not sure if this is before or after DR reduction. I'm not sure and can't check
Anvil of Doom: No longer deals double damage to targets below 40% health. Instead, deals full damage again over 5 seconds to targets below 50% health
Does anyone know if the full damage again (as DOT) is really double damage (i.e. takes into account crit, buffs etc.) or is more like the LOL set where it is the full weapon damage again as a DOT.
Because if its the same amount of damage as before, just half of it as DOT. Then that's nothing really to complain about at all and I'd be happy enough with the GF balancing (but I would like to see TOI and LS un-nerfed plz).
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
FEEDBACK: I agree with @peregr1nus. This is awesome change, but not for the right power. I think this kind of change, for instance, of "Shield talent" would be better.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
In PvP a DR higher than 80% helps. In PvE it should help if monsters have something like ArP (which I don't know).
If this changes go live I will spec conqueror, so I can at last deal some dmg, while turtle tanking the boss.
this feat doesn't work, Line Breaker Assault cooldown is not reduced when you hit targets.
Bug: General
On the preview server there is an huge bug regarding Action points gain which doesn't increase when you get hitted.
Feedback: Power: Line Breaker Assault
even with the upcoming changes no one will use this power, it's almost useless: insignificant dmg, long cooldown, and the dazing effect is too short. i've tried it on preview and there is no chance to use it: that short dazing effect doesn't give you any pro due to the time lost during the power animation... i would suggest an increase of the dazing effect maybe up to 3 or 4s.
This power is way too overpowered in PVP, please take a look at it. My suggestion is to make it less effective against players. With this power GFs can hit (with not even a complete rotation) a fully geared player with full tenacity for more than 220k hit points without any debuffs on target. Under some circumstances (debuffs), reaching that amount of damage just needs a Bullcharge.
[]Full Metal Witch[]
4149 TiL
Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best"
"Nobody does it better"
#TLO BiS
Nice day.
Instead you go ahead and tweak the whole class with clueless changes like the reduced target cap of Enforced threat or reduced duration of Villain's Menace, or the damage resistance debuff of Tide of Iron that wil now affect only the GF (lol). Powers that had done nothing wrong and caused no trouble, but you decided to go ahead and nerf them just because.
Well done.
FEEDBACK: If the intent is to insure a decent amount of damage wouldn't it be better to proc from both encounter and daily use?
Feedback: Power: Enforced Threat
FEEDBACK: Reducing the target cap is a BAD idea for two reasons: Fist it is a major damage NERF, since it now hits half as many targets and is one of our few AOE encounters. Second this also means we can only taunt half as many targets, reducing our ability to tank. SUGGESTION: Leave the target cap at 20. Feedback: Power: Into the Fray
FEEDBACK: Obviously a major reduction in a GF's damage buffing ability AND personal damage ability, which is of course intended. SUGGESTION: Make the amount of Temp HP this gives actually noticeable (on X-Box I actually cannot even see the yellow bar for temp HP this gives to my party) Such as 5% plus 5% per rank. Also: Reduce activation time and make it usable while moving. Feedback: Power: Lunging Strike
FEEDBACK: The increase in recharge time is unnecessary: This is one of the GF's primary mobility skills to allow us to do our duties esp in large battles such as Demogorgon. (And it is fun.)
Feedback: Power: Tide of Iron
FEEDBACK: The change to the damage resistance debuff to caster only is completely unnecessary, the power's main purpose was to apply this dubuff for the party.
Bug: Power: Into the Fray
Temp hitpoints from ITF don't drop off when combat ends. This isn't a preview-specific bug, as it behaves this way on live as well. The amount of temp HPs you get is utterly miniscule, so the actual effect is moot, but it is inconsistent with the changes to temp HPs in general.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Simply put, in the vast, vast majority of use cases, and for most of the population, ET has been buffed significantly because of the damage boost and reduced cooldown.
your other points however are very valid and I fully support them
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We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Why take it down to 3.5 , a pally bubble last 6 seconds and it protects the whole team, Steal defence is only effects GFs. This was never abused to begin with, when u cut fray and the other powers u pretty much killed the buffing gfs, so having no high AP gain, therefore stopping this from being abused if at all. And if...... and I mean if .....it was too powerful it was only cause the DR was so high it was proc'ing off the tact. Endcap making it come back abnormally fast. Which again won't happen anymore cause it's pointless to stack over 80% DR!
When you put the 5th feat point into tactical superiority it stops combat superiority from proccing. This is probably due to some old code still disabling combat superiority at 5/5 feat points.
Feedback: Steel grace artifact offhand bonus
This reworked class feature still has the old artifact offhand bonus of +10% extra control resistance. Perhaps this could be changed so it provides another 1% crit/deflect and 2.5% movespeed?
Feedback: Power: Weapon master strike
Making this aoe atwill target locked makes it a lot more annoying to use and can make it harder to hit all enemies from a group. Consider removing the target lock so it works as on live now. The damage bonus on the 'main' target could then be replaced to the first target hit instead. Ideally the increased damage against a single target is simply removed and replaced with a plain 10-30% damage increase instead as this is a very counter intuitive mechanic for an aoe slash
Feedback: Power: Anvil of doom
A 5 second dot after a hit under 50% health seems a bit long, chances are the mob is already dead before the dot has ran its course. Consider shortening the duration to 2-3 seconds while maintaining the same total damage.
Feedback: Power: Enforced threat
The reduction of the target cap will in some situations lead to not all mobs being aggroed after using this ability forcing you to run after them so they dont murder your partymembers. Consider putting the target cap back to 20 as that should be sufficient for almost every situation.
Feedback: Power: Villain's menace
This power is the only one we can use to enjoy a short time of being immune to cc so we can cast some abilities without worrying about being disrupted by mobs in the heat of battle. Looking at the very lengthy cast time it has we need all those precious cc immune seconds. Please consider reverting the duration to its original value.
As for the people that are saying that knight's challenge needs adjusting I disagree. It is a high risk high reward ability that puts the gf in just as much danger as its target and it has a lengthy cast animation as well that leaves the gf totally vulnerable. A true double edged sword.