Class Balance: Scourge Warlock

strumslinger · July 2016

In this blog, we’ll go over the changes we made to the Scourge Warlock in the upcoming expansion.

Once again, please keep all discussion respectful rather than throwing around any insults. Class balance is a touchy topic, which is highly subjective, but with the data we have we try and make changes that may not be obvious, but work for the game as a whole; not just the class itself. Most players have their own thoughts on how to balance out a class among a sea of possible changes. It's also a two-sided coin in the end.

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10074093-class-balance:-scourge-warlock

romotheone · July 2016

Going into explaining mechanics and where the issues were is insanely appreciated. Do not be afraid of admitting errors and discussing issues. This is what wins a community's trust. Great read.

sundance777 · July 2016

I don't run a warlock yet, but great write up, I might build one now!

hadestemplar · July 2016

strumslinger said:
In this blog, we’ll go over the changes we made to the Scourge Warlock in the upcoming expansion.

Once again, please keep all discussion respectful rather than throwing around any insults. Class balance is a touchy topic, which is highly subjective, but with the data we have we try and make changes that may not be obvious, but work for the game as a whole; not just the class itself. Most players have their own thoughts on how to balance out a class among a sea of possible changes. It's also a two-sided coin in the end.

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10074093-class-balance:-scourge-warlock

Good changes on paper.. Now let see how do it work in action...
And top question from me would be, do devs visited warlock forum to get ideas for these changes or they come with own ideas...

therapho · July 2016

I've been testing the changes on preview and I don't see Tyrannical Curse damage being split with nearby targets as Tyrannical Threat did. For example, I curse a target dummy and dreadtheft it, the two nearby dummies do not take any damage.

fjdksls · July 2016

So with this and the HR change, are there any chances you guys will distribute re-spec tokens to those characters in case they want to re-spec in light of these changes?

ggedamed · July 2016

I'm sure they will.

kolatmaster · July 2016

Great write up, and thanks for the clear description of the issues...

Loved the humor inserted also... Much funny. Wow.

reposterz · July 2016

Any thoughts as to how to change pillar of power for hellbringer? It is still an under used power, I was thinking they made the pillar of power sustain itself despite an enemy walking over it and triggering the attacking effect of the pillar of power... its good that other powers are changing but pillar of power could use some looking into honestly... just think about it.

goodyearbadday · July 2016

therapho said:
I've been testing the changes on preview and I don't see Tyrannical Curse damage being split with nearby targets as Tyrannical Threat did. For example, I curse a target dummy and dreadtheft it, the two nearby dummies do not take any damage.

Only the target is affected by the Tyrannical curse now. But, You can have Tyrannical curse & Warlock's curse on 2 different targets
.

midnightflares · July 2016

goodyearbadday said:

therapho said:
I've been testing the changes on preview and I don't see Tyrannical Curse damage being split with nearby targets as Tyrannical Threat did. For example, I curse a target dummy and dreadtheft it, the two nearby dummies do not take any damage.
Only the target is affected by the Tyrannical curse now. But, You can have Tyrannical curse & Warlock's curse on 2 different targets
.

What he means is the tooltip on preview still indicates that Tyrannical Curse will retain the "Your target is damage linked, and and 15% of the damage you deal to them to other targets within 30'" effect. Currently on preview this is not the case, and no damage is being dealt to targets within 30' of your Tyrannical Cursed target.

donnyth · July 2016

No changes to the "healing" third tree? It's basically useless. I've yet to see any SW go temptation.
1) maybe this could be a pvp spec with survivability
2) if it's a healing spec, it will need to contend with DC (meaning buffs/dbuffs)
3) how about a spec that loses some dps but focuses on CC

therapho · July 2016

I would love to see another healing option beyond DC. I personally would not switch since I have a DC.

Another suggestion I have is the ability to switch builds based on need. That way I can take on a different role if required. Maybe limit it to happening only in town and costing gold or something to do. Maybe an epic quest to unlock the "build slot".

For example, if a group needs a healer, I could switch to Temptation.

Other MMORPGs have this and it works well.

flowcyto · July 2016

My HB Firelock is pretty happy w/ what's been offered so far (and yes, it def needs major work for all the tools and survival it gives up by forgoing SB and most Necrotic dmg- I can't really think of anything it does better than my 2 SB SWs atm, aside from dying much easier).

Its also pretty funny when you guys had that bit of self-reflection when noting the old Gates of Hell charge time. Good to see some earnestness from ya guys. Hope Temptation also gets a look at (hopefully better direction, imo the tree needs to decide what its trying to be: a healer that takes up a Devo OP or DC's spot, a dps w/ healing as a perk ala a Renegade CW, a 'buff' tree, a CC/pvp tree, etc).

truckula · July 2016

One issue I did not see addressed about my soul puppet. In any dungeon area boss fight, where the fight is locked from reentry after death. If my SP dies, he can not respawn inside the fight, he is actually stuck outside the fight. This makes him totally useless for a large portion of the fight.

bratleyray · July 2016

They fixed the puppet being locked out a while ago. You just need to get 100 ft from the door and he will respawn beside you.

sm0key04 · July 2016

therapho said:
I would love to see another healing option beyond DC. I personally would not switch since I have a DC.

Already have one....OP Oath of Devotion

therapho · July 2016

Is OP Oath of Devotion truly as good a healer as a DC?

beckylunatic · July 2016

therapho said:
Is OP Oath of Devotion truly as good a healer as a DC?

As good or better healer, worse buffer.

ghoulz66 · July 2016

You guys have A LOT more work to do if you're trying to improve the class.

mykael31 · July 2016

Stop changing the classes and the game would be good you mess it up by trying to balanced the classes and destroy some of them in the process like I'm pretty sure your about to do to the gf.

alphastream · July 2016

Maybe I'm not reading right... what is helping an average player that hits 70 with their warlock? I see a 5% boost to curse damage, but that is split up if you have more than one target cursed (often the case), so it isn't a big bump. Some powers are boosted, but we also see the popular powers being changed... do these changes make an okay warlock competitive?

Here is my perspective. Warlock was my third PC. My fourth was an OP. My OP always beat out my warlock at both damage and survivability, despite being vastly lower in gear. It took a ton of effort to bring up my warlock to where it could, say, solo an easier HE in our stronghold... and my OP had been doing that for ages. Or, to where my warlock could at all survive solo in the Dread Ring quests. Do these changes restore a warlock to being viable? If they do, I'm not understanding what changes do that.

treesclimber · July 2016

@strumslinger pls ask the devs to consider temptation having a bit more buffing for party pve focus, we will still be the ones dragged. Not only the devs have a sad face, me too.

P.s. Prism is activating too many times with soul bonding, i think game will crash in herals and tiamat. Hellbringer is still worse than soulbinder, Combat advantage comes from everywhere in pve, and armour penetration, we are kicking it out, flames of empowerment is useless.

therapho · July 2016

alphastream said:
Maybe I'm not reading right... what is helping an average player that hits 70 with their warlock? I see a 5% boost to curse damage, but that is split up if you have more than one target cursed (often the case), so it isn't a big bump. Some powers are boosted, but we also see the popular powers being changed... do these changes make an okay warlock competitive?

Here is my perspective. Warlock was my third PC. My fourth was an OP. My OP always beat out my warlock at both damage and survivability, despite being vastly lower in gear. It took a ton of effort to bring up my warlock to where it could, say, solo an easier HE in our stronghold... and my OP had been doing that for ages. Or, to where my warlock could at all survive solo in the Dread Ring quests. Do these changes restore a warlock to being viable? If they do, I'm not understanding what changes do that.

I agree. It took a lot investment of time and money to make my SW viable. It should be a glass cannon, a buffing healer, or something in between. Why a GWF can out DPS a SW with less effort makes no sense. They are tougher, so they should do less damage.

There should be a balance between toughness and damage. I liked soulbinder damnation because it did good damage but had some survivability that was based on strategic use of soul sparks, and plain old running around to dodge and position. The puppet's healing and tanking helped significantly. I found the fury build to do a little more damage for a whole lot less survivability.

darkdruid8 · July 2016

I have a simple suggestion......stop everything you are doing! It does not matter at this point if the warlock has parts that do not work the way you envision. It is fine. There are always going to be underappreciated builds. The fact that the class even works at all after the brutal lifesteal nerf is a miracle. Please just do the right thing and leave it alone. The classes have been extremely unbalanced for a long time.

We accept that. It is fine.

Some classes do things better that others can not. I really do not see the value in altering the way curses work, or the soul puppet benefits. If I would do anything.....it would be to leave the game alone and develop new content, maps and such. Try working on maps. It might be nice to take my fully capable working warlock on a walk in a new area for once.

magnusg15 · July 2016

All I have to say is that... when I saw that you were "balancing" classes... it's amazing to me to see you publish 2 posts about boosting 2 of the top end classes in the game. 2 wildly different versions of SW are currently competing for TOP dps with the nearest class being GWF about 30 million behind..

Great you're nerfing the soul puppet (a little?).. but doing nothing to stop the one-shot-lock murderous flames stacks exploit...

You're taking the HR which yes most people go trapper, and saying HMMM only one build of hunter ranger is top 3 in DPS... lets make other builds top 3...

boy I better see some serious love come down for TR's and CW's in the future.

magnusg15 · July 2016

magnusg15 said:
All I have to say is that... when I saw that you were "balancing" classes... it's amazing to me to see you publish 2 posts about boosting 2 of the top end classes in the game. 2 wildly different versions of SW are currently competing for TOP dps with the nearest class being GWF about 30 million behind..

Great you're nerfing the soul puppet (a little?).. but doing nothing to stop the one-shot-lock murderous flames stacks exploit...

You're taking the HR which yes most people go trapper, and saying HMMM only one build of hunter ranger is top 3 in DPS... lets make other builds top 3...

boy I better see some serious love come down for TR's and CW's in the future.

What's next a base buff to ITF damage boost? lol...

beckylunatic · July 2016

magnusg15 said:

Great you're nerfing the soul puppet (a little?).. but doing nothing to stop the one-shot-lock murderous flames stacks exploit...

Fixed internally, coming soon to a preview build near you.

ITF has been drastically reduced.

Please familiarize yourself with all the changes before running off at the keyboard.

metalraro · July 2016

really.. funny... tragic , leveling down.
after all what we are now ?
dps are not
which thought of doing such HAMSTER?
serious. I tested in preview.
why not remove the way soon? let all the characters with only one way . if they can not do something to work , and destroy what they do, why not simplify ?

metalraro · July 2016

spent time, money to let my character at the level of a gwf 3.4 ( am sw 3.9) , and now comes you guys because of external bufs and destroy all the character? first removing the buf gf and dc should not lay a finger on sw without testing .
is there any adm playing ?
You know the outcome ? I will stop playing and look for a game where the characters are leveled up and not down

deadeye2239 · July 2016

Ok I normally don't post on here but I will and hoping strumslinger can read and acknowledge my post any maybe itll help somewhat with the class for us SW.

Firstly the fix to the puppet is great, make it work as intended thats fine. Don't nerf killing flames it is our single strongest move but has to be used at the right time with all the right buffs going on. Now beside that my issues I have seen whilst running a SW for 2 years now(only character I've used beside a TR for pvp purposes at one point) is that we are so easily controlled or we die to easily, now I see the shadow walk class feat got buffed it sounds really nice it does, but what about adding a dodge mechanic of some sort? Like as soon as you activate it your DR is 100% for .2 seconds? and immediately drops to 60% afterwards, it honestly is needed to play pvp and for myself and many others we would like to be able to use a SW effectively in pvp without having to be carried by other classes or making a new class just to play a certain mode. Ok besides that I see some great cool features you added with the powers and feats, seems like with certain powers set up a certain way you can be more tanky but lose some dps, Example BoVa, spheres, soul scorch. Youd have more tankieness but still your main DPS encounter and now that IS Doesn't consume your SS you can keep a few up always whilst casting your daily, good move. Reduce casting time for Harrowstorm it prones the enemy but takes ages to cast, whats the point in that? LOL. A slightt buff on casting speed of essence defiler would be nice even if its tiny.

TL; DR
Give us a .2 invincibility frame once we activate shadow walk.
Buff harrowstorms casting speed.
Slight buff to essence defiler would be nice too.

PLEASE, I know many people complained about the Puppet being bugged and it was a cheap way to obtain dps, so now those people will be happy and im okay with that but giving us some better casting speeds AND a dodge, invincibility frame once we activate our shadow would is NEEDED.

Class Balance: Scourge Warlock

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