That is because of overpowered buffs and debuffs that Paladins do not have. They ruin the game. We are told there is a new tier of dungeons coming. If buffs and debuffs are not toned down these will be no more difficult than elol speed kills.
Compare a CN-run with a Paladin and a GF...lasts 3 times longer, that´s issue enough to me.
Huh, I'm not seeing things like that though. Without GF buffs and OP to tank everything that exists, CN runs usually are not even possible. Not even with many Yeti pets. Hmm This might change soon though, but truth be told OP and GF have a much higher chance of completing a dungeon than any other class.
I'm sure that a 4man GF+DC party would HAMSTER CN.
I also don't see buffs and debuffs as an issue, tbh. Some broken 2x procs, yes, but overall BUFFs and DEBUFFS are the thing why there're different people in the team. That's a good thing imho.
And it's a win-win situation for everyone since even without a lot of DPS, you're still a good player since buffs are given regardless of your IL/skill. A low lvl Renegade is super-useful to the team, for instance, and a welcomed member. Same goes for buff/debuff GF/DC. I can't see the issue with that.
The only problem, as I see it, is that people due to the change of the nature of game circa MOD6, learned to use buffs/debuffs far more than before to their own advantage. The 5man CW run became obsolete. Same like the 5man GWF run became obsolete after MOd3 got introduced. Variety is a good thing.
Problem is with the classes that don't really bring anything to the table unless super-equipped. Such is the Thaumaturge tree, for instance. You don't really need CWs anymore in the PT imho since OP/GF mitigate all damage + Yeti as compatriots (HA!) furthermore supplemented by one SW + one GWF + one HR and there you go. Control's not useful to anyone since it doesn't work as much as it used to be and there's a fine line of work where it becomes unnecessary for CW to play at all since damage is mitigated at all times. And many people like playing with a CW, so CW should be useful again and not just like a buff-bot.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Can someone explain what needs to happen for a hit to reach 10mil?
I'm super excited when I see a 300K hit, how are ppl getting 10mil? Fair enough I don't have any real DPS spec'd toons . . . . . but 10mil that's 30 times more
Something definitely feeds fixing when those numbers are happening, surely.
Bring back the diminishing return curves??
a lot of buffs from DC, GF, CW, Hunter... and selfbuffs from Wheel, companionboni, critseveritiyboni etc. plus all your class can offer by selfbuffs. But I heared that a GF can deal those numbers even without having a 500% statboost from Bondings, this player uses an Augment,lol. I saw those ACT logs posted by fabricant in this forum, these numbers pop by different classes with an effectiveness of 1000%. Means your anvil deals ten times more damage than he would deal normally, so a 500k anvil is a 5 mio hit, a 1 million (double damage when at 40%) is a 10 million hit. Not much to say, it happens in a buffer party, when people play that know how to play their class and know the mechanics, timing their buffs exactly. No magic i guess. I never had those numbers by pugging, but that´s also no magic because I meet 24/7 player, who spend their featpoints by chance, running bad stuffed companions and low level enchantements (that´s okay) but this is not okay--> a GF, that doesn´t mark, doesn´t use Tide of Iron, has near 8k defense a DC, that doesn´t use hollowed ground and Astral shield, meeting a GF and more to tell a CW´s that does near no buffs...in case you ever run with a mof-buffer build, you know what this class can do, I would say he is the best buffer in this game beside a DC, I would say even stronger
I ran with this guys.
The GF does not use ToI, bc it does less dmg.
DC does not use AS, bc he does not know about the ITF synergy or the GF does not use ITF (happened often enough to me, but if you ask, the GF thinks you are joking either way).
CWs deal more personal dmg as SS thraum, so every second player changes from rene to thraum, thinking, that they are better players and wondering, why the runs take more time. I run as HV SS CW with a renegade build. IMO a solid compromise between group buffs and personal dps.
OFcourse a high vizier set suits more on a renegade but that doesnt mean a thauma will be useless with that set.hv debuff increases the damage for any passive a thauma has creeping frost warped magics. after the bonding changes you will see how faster goes and for poeple dont have many debuffs starting a fight and end a fight with stable 50k power you will laugh.
btw I play a GF and i run CN and I did some PVP and there is nothing to discuss, except for some ppl who allways discuss, even in case their class would be a "one-button-onehit-winning-machine"
Your *main* is a GF? We all have a lot of toons.
Not my main, but a 2.9k GF, and I definitely know the difference between a CN run following a GF and a CN following a paladin. I never run that dungeon with an OP for quite a long time now because it´s my time that´s wasted, so in case you call that balance, I call it BS. All you read in chat is: "LFM GF+DC for CN run" these days and not "Lfm OP-tank/heal for CN run" OP is third choice atm. But this discussion is offtopic anyway.
they have no clue then.PAladin is true dont have itf. BUT he has other powers we can say aura of wisdom and courage are permanent. Who find it bad to have extra recharge speed? or to hit % of paladins hp as extra damage? vs boss bane 30% debuff? paladin tree feat from light that shares 25% of his power to his allies after 6 seconds?
i am very gla my pt to include and paladin and gf and cleric.
Compare a CN-run with a Paladin and a GF...lasts 3 times longer, that´s issue enough to me.
Huh, I'm not seeing things like that though. Without GF buffs and OP to tank everything that exists, CN runs usually are not even possible. Not even with many Yeti pets. Hmm This might change soon though, but truth be told OP and GF have a much higher chance of completing a dungeon than any other class.
I'm sure that a 4man GF+DC party would HAMSTER CN.
I also don't see buffs and debuffs as an issue, tbh. Some broken 2x procs, yes, but overall BUFFs and DEBUFFS are the thing why there're different people in the team. That's a good thing imho.
And it's a win-win situation for everyone since even without a lot of DPS, you're still a good player since buffs are given regardless of your IL/skill. A low lvl Renegade is super-useful to the team, for instance, and a welcomed member. Same goes for buff/debuff GF/DC. I can't see the issue with that.
The only problem, as I see it, is that people due to the change of the nature of game circa MOD6, learned to use buffs/debuffs far more than before to their own advantage. The 5man CW run became obsolete. Same like the 5man GWF run became obsolete after MOd3 got introduced. Variety is a good thing.
Problem is with the classes that don't really bring anything to the table unless super-equipped. Such is the Thaumaturge tree, for instance. You don't really need CWs anymore in the PT imho since OP/GF mitigate all damage + Yeti as compatriots (HA!) furthermore supplemented by one SW + one GWF + one HR and there you go. Control's not useful to anyone since it doesn't work as much as it used to be and there's a fine line of work where it becomes unnecessary for CW to play at all since damage is mitigated at all times. And many people like playing with a CW, so CW should be useful again and not just like a buff-bot.
after mod 6 the game changed. back in time in mod3
Compare a CN-run with a Paladin and a GF...lasts 3 times longer, that´s issue enough to me.
Huh, I'm not seeing things like that though. Without GF buffs and OP to tank everything that exists, CN runs usually are not even possible. Not even with many Yeti pets. Hmm This might change soon though, but truth be told OP and GF have a much higher chance of completing a dungeon than any other class.
I'm sure that a 4man GF+DC party would HAMSTER CN.
I also don't see buffs and debuffs as an issue, tbh. Some broken 2x procs, yes, but overall BUFFs and DEBUFFS are the thing why there're different people in the team. That's a good thing imho.
And it's a win-win situation for everyone since even without a lot of DPS, you're still a good player since buffs are given regardless of your IL/skill. A low lvl Renegade is super-useful to the team, for instance, and a welcomed member. Same goes for buff/debuff GF/DC. I can't see the issue with that.
The only problem, as I see it, is that people due to the change of the nature of game circa MOD6, learned to use buffs/debuffs far more than before to their own advantage. The 5man CW run became obsolete. Same like the 5man GWF run became obsolete after MOd3 got introduced. Variety is a good thing.
Problem is with the classes that don't really bring anything to the table unless super-equipped. Such is the Thaumaturge tree, for instance. You don't really need CWs anymore in the PT imho since OP/GF mitigate all damage + Yeti as compatriots (HA!) furthermore supplemented by one SW + one GWF + one HR and there you go. Control's not useful to anyone since it doesn't work as much as it used to be and there's a fine line of work where it becomes unnecessary for CW to play at all since damage is mitigated at all times. And many people like playing with a CW, so CW should be useful again and not just like a buff-bot.
Even if control works better at high item level will be noticeable when the thrash mobs can go down from att wills due buffsdebuffs power critical 100% ? to fool myself i pug a lot to have the m3 feeling i use characters at 2k item level and sometimes i pick useless strongold boons like overload pve;p and incoming healing on defence.
BACK in m3 i remember very few healing sources and a cleric should be in the pt to kill first-2nd boss in karrundax. many area effects could burn you down + archers they needed at the right time to get control from a wizard or the big giant spawned to make harder the fight? GOOd old days. AND now we have the stupid orcus hit me hit me and i will die thing.
SO if you have an alt cw likes to control. step 1 leave guild 2: play with a stone with enchants r7 3: no mount insignia . 4: choose similar geared pt members and go run the content. then come back and tell us was your control useful? Did your pt took a breath? did your pt with your control-dps help avoided the one shots?
THE module at august seems promising with new tier dungeon lets see
Compare a CN-run with a Paladin and a GF...lasts 3 times longer, that´s issue enough to me.
Huh, I'm not seeing things like that though. Without GF buffs and OP to tank everything that exists, CN runs usually are not even possible. Not even with many Yeti pets. Hmm This might change soon though, but truth be told OP and GF have a much higher chance of completing a dungeon than any other class.
I'm sure that a 4man GF+DC party would HAMSTER CN.
I also don't see buffs and debuffs as an issue, tbh. Some broken 2x procs, yes, but overall BUFFs and DEBUFFS are the thing why there're different people in the team. That's a good thing imho.
And it's a win-win situation for everyone since even without a lot of DPS, you're still a good player since buffs are given regardless of your IL/skill. A low lvl Renegade is super-useful to the team, for instance, and a welcomed member. Same goes for buff/debuff GF/DC. I can't see the issue with that.
The only problem, as I see it, is that people due to the change of the nature of game circa MOD6, learned to use buffs/debuffs far more than before to their own advantage. The 5man CW run became obsolete. Same like the 5man GWF run became obsolete after MOd3 got introduced. Variety is a good thing.
Problem is with the classes that don't really bring anything to the table unless super-equipped. Such is the Thaumaturge tree, for instance. You don't really need CWs anymore in the PT imho since OP/GF mitigate all damage + Yeti as compatriots (HA!) furthermore supplemented by one SW + one GWF + one HR and there you go. Control's not useful to anyone since it doesn't work as much as it used to be and there's a fine line of work where it becomes unnecessary for CW to play at all since damage is mitigated at all times. And many people like playing with a CW, so CW should be useful again and not just like a buff-bot.
ah gf is just a buff bot to if itf or kv would not work as they do no one would take them in either t1 or t2 cause they would only slow us down
Compare a CN-run with a Paladin and a GF...lasts 3 times longer, that´s issue enough to me.
Huh, I'm not seeing things like that though. Without GF buffs and OP to tank everything that exists, CN runs usually are not even possible. Not even with many Yeti pets. Hmm This might change soon though, but truth be told OP and GF have a much higher chance of completing a dungeon than any other class.
I'm sure that a 4man GF+DC party would HAMSTER CN.
I also don't see buffs and debuffs as an issue, tbh. Some broken 2x procs, yes, but overall BUFFs and DEBUFFS are the thing why there're different people in the team. That's a good thing imho.
And it's a win-win situation for everyone since even without a lot of DPS, you're still a good player since buffs are given regardless of your IL/skill. A low lvl Renegade is super-useful to the team, for instance, and a welcomed member. Same goes for buff/debuff GF/DC. I can't see the issue with that.
The only problem, as I see it, is that people due to the change of the nature of game circa MOD6, learned to use buffs/debuffs far more than before to their own advantage. The 5man CW run became obsolete. Same like the 5man GWF run became obsolete after MOd3 got introduced. Variety is a good thing.
Problem is with the classes that don't really bring anything to the table unless super-equipped. Such is the Thaumaturge tree, for instance. You don't really need CWs anymore in the PT imho since OP/GF mitigate all damage + Yeti as compatriots (HA!) furthermore supplemented by one SW + one GWF + one HR and there you go. Control's not useful to anyone since it doesn't work as much as it used to be and there's a fine line of work where it becomes unnecessary for CW to play at all since damage is mitigated at all times. And many people like playing with a CW, so CW should be useful again and not just like a buff-bot.
after mod 6 the game changed. back in time in mod3
Compare a CN-run with a Paladin and a GF...lasts 3 times longer, that´s issue enough to me.
Huh, I'm not seeing things like that though. Without GF buffs and OP to tank everything that exists, CN runs usually are not even possible. Not even with many Yeti pets. Hmm This might change soon though, but truth be told OP and GF have a much higher chance of completing a dungeon than any other class.
I'm sure that a 4man GF+DC party would HAMSTER CN.
I also don't see buffs and debuffs as an issue, tbh. Some broken 2x procs, yes, but overall BUFFs and DEBUFFS are the thing why there're different people in the team. That's a good thing imho.
And it's a win-win situation for everyone since even without a lot of DPS, you're still a good player since buffs are given regardless of your IL/skill. A low lvl Renegade is super-useful to the team, for instance, and a welcomed member. Same goes for buff/debuff GF/DC. I can't see the issue with that.
The only problem, as I see it, is that people due to the change of the nature of game circa MOD6, learned to use buffs/debuffs far more than before to their own advantage. The 5man CW run became obsolete. Same like the 5man GWF run became obsolete after MOd3 got introduced. Variety is a good thing.
Problem is with the classes that don't really bring anything to the table unless super-equipped. Such is the Thaumaturge tree, for instance. You don't really need CWs anymore in the PT imho since OP/GF mitigate all damage + Yeti as compatriots (HA!) furthermore supplemented by one SW + one GWF + one HR and there you go. Control's not useful to anyone since it doesn't work as much as it used to be and there's a fine line of work where it becomes unnecessary for CW to play at all since damage is mitigated at all times. And many people like playing with a CW, so CW should be useful again and not just like a buff-bot.
Even if control works better at high item level will be noticeable when the thrash mobs can go down from att wills due buffsdebuffs power critical 100% ? to fool myself i pug a lot to have the m3 feeling i use characters at 2k item level and sometimes i pick useless strongold boons like overload pve;p and incoming healing on defence.
BACK in m3 i remember very few healing sources and a cleric should be in the pt to kill first-2nd boss in karrundax. many area effects could burn you down + archers they needed at the right time to get control from a wizard or the big giant spawned to make harder the fight? GOOd old days. AND now we have the stupid orcus hit me hit me and i will die thing.
SO if you have an alt cw likes to control. step 1 leave guild 2: play with a stone with enchants r7 3: no mount insignia . 4: choose similar geared pt members and go run the content. then come back and tell us was your control useful? Did your pt took a breath? did your pt with your control-dps help avoided the one shots?
THE module at august seems promising with new tier dungeon lets see
idk i always take cws for t1 or etos it makes them easy and no need for healers with them
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revan06100Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Yes, i just got the information that the GF will get it's class balance patch note around the middle of june/july . So i guess this is a good thing.
i don't see any issues with the gf...
Into the frey is way too powerful Knight's valor is way too powerful. [It's even better than divine protector] Guardian Fighters do way too much burst damage in PVP
Those are just a few of the issues. I'm not being specific since it's been repeated by many others so many times.
You people can't stop complaining, first the TR, then the GWF, then the OP, and now the GF. GF is a pure tank, so, it makes perfect sense that his powers are gonna be more powerful than the op when it comes to tanking. Now buff wise, i don't think his buffs are overpowered, maybe with a DC, but on his own, it's definatly not over the top... Knight's valor = try using it without a DC...
Hardest Hitting doesn't mean highest DPS. There is a lot of talk about how GF's are dominating but its not something I am seeing
I have a 3.2K GF IV Tact and a 3.1K CW SS Ren - neither are the DPS tree of their classes, they are support players.
The CW does a lot more DPS than the GF, a lot.
Sure the GF using Anvil of Doom can hit harder than the CW in a single hit (highest I have got is 330K when soloing strong hold HE's, but when playing in parties the highest hit is horrible) to get a decent hit I need the following to occur:
It needs to crit - my tank specced GF has a crit chance of under 20% and I need to use the following buffs / debuffs
- Mark the target - ITF - Villians menace - Wheel of Elements Fire - max out Shield Warriors Wrath - tide of iron - have the mobs health less than 40% for the 2x damage
that's a pain in the @rse to get all those things to line up and with the crappy crit chance it happens very infrequently
Meanwhile the CW hits regularly in the 200K+ range with ice knife all the time. All you need to do is use a rotation of COI, IT then SS (mobs are frozen) then Ice knife with chilling presence slotted. Easy as when the base crit chance is around 80% . . . Whilst the GF is layering up buffs etc. for one big hit on a single mob, the CW has cleared the pack and is on the next one
Of the GF buffs above - ITF, tide of iron and marked target all affect other party members
My GF's hardest hitting Encounter is Anvil of Doom - 18K base max, 36K (when mob is below 40%) cooldown of 12ish secs
My CW's hardest hitting Encounter is Disintegrate - 85K max base - cool down of 6ish secs
Fair enough, its a tank/buff specced GF so maybe all this becomes irrelevant and a DPS specced GF would have much higher power and crit chance and do more damage , but if they are wanting to use ITF (without another GF buffing them), then they need to stack defence and that takes away from the other offensive stats. But would the buff/tank Vs DPS build difference make up for 1/2 the base damage and 2x cooldown ???
Surely there are other buffs / interactions in play here
Like I said, its not aligning with my experiences in the game and it definitely doesn't apply to the majority of GF's out there
No offense but what the heck u want?? Pick any mmorpg and always be same stuff.. Tank role is not be dmg dealer, his role is to tank=take incoming hits/protect team/party members.. U remind me as guys who choose DC which is supporter class by default and complain that his toon where outdps by gwf. Now lets take for moment your thoughts about GF dmg, Imagine u have highest survivability because u are tank. On top and medium/high dmg output.. It will simply kill reason to choose any other class.. Plus CW originally is Control class with ability to do dmg which is his secondary role. Real dmg dealers or here called strikers are GWF, SW, HR and TR. Enough to check http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Class and look to his primary and secondary role. And neither paladin neither GF have role as striker, neither primary neither secondary.
If u want be striker choose striker class in first place.. I choose warlock so I knew he will not be good as Controller by default and I do not complain about it. Same when I choose DC, I didn't complain about his dmg output, his role and overall class desing where not for this purpose... So once again no offense but stop complain that your GF is not GWF or other striker...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
That's why I stopped using it. Teamwork in this game is hosed. Too much 'it's all about me' and blaming and complaining and nerfing and auction jacking; generally trying to screw over others for their own benefit. This game has done a 180 from team-based to solo-play cover your own butt, stock-broker playing. I laugh when I see someone use the word 'community' on this board. Give me a break. This is a shark den.
It's the same old lines you get on this board from posters now that if you don't play the way they think you should, you're incompetent or don't know how to play your class or you're limited, or your guild/friend list sucks etc. The knee jerk response is shoot for below-the-belt-insults before even seeing a response on why you disagree.
I got told that if I can't run KV without a cleric.. and tank, and buff, and agro, I don't know how to play. Such rhetorical garbage like this. Way of the day of what's left of the player base in this game now. These posts are garbage.
former class reworks made me and many other players doubt the sanity of the Devs and either resulted in other bugs or made a class useless.
I think everyone knows that, and the ones pushing for nerfs don't care. They want superiority but falsely feign a desire for class balance. Post histories tell the truth.
Teamwork in this game is hosed. Too much 'it's all about me' and blaming and complaining and nerfing and auction jacking; generally trying to screw over others for their own benefit.
One poster on reddit says he adds another zero when he sells his stuff. Can confirm.
This game has done a 180 from team-based to solo-play cover your own butt, stock-broker playing. I laugh when I see someone use the word 'community' on this board. Give me a break. This is a shark den.
One GWF wants DC to spam Bastion and Astral Shield and I told him off. If anything a righteous DC should spam on boss fight, it's Prophecy of Doom, Break the Spirit and Divine Glow. I'm not sure what he thinks after that as he went absolutely silent about it. The fact that he doesn't switch aggro between me, him and tactical GF is proof enough he isn't well-versed with teamwork and not willing to compromise. I can't say anything to the trapper HR dying too quickly. I pretty much failed my job to peel him as he went all over the place.
It's the same old lines you get on this board from posters now that if you don't play the way they think you should, you're incompetent or don't know how to play your class or you're limited, or your guild/friend list sucks etc. The knee jerk response is shoot for below-the-belt-insults before even seeing a response on why you disagree.
I, for one, wants players to stop the crusade on Archery HRs and no one complaints about Whisperknife Scoundrel TRs. I agree on different playstyles on different feat paths. But as Sentinel GWF being what it is now, I need to think on how to make it work.
On the subject guild/friend list, I'm pretty much out of touch on it. Never bother. Always PUG and LFG or the legit channel if you get it but I didn't even use it and no one calls for a group on anything in that channel. And the guild runs from the higher ranks, which is a rarity for me (different timezone, can't blame them).
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Hardest Hitting doesn't mean highest DPS. There is a lot of talk about how GF's are dominating but its not something I am seeing
I have a 3.2K GF IV Tact and a 3.1K CW SS Ren - neither are the DPS tree of their classes, they are support players.
The CW does a lot more DPS than the GF, a lot.
Sure the GF using Anvil of Doom can hit harder than the CW in a single hit (highest I have got is 330K when soloing strong hold HE's, but when playing in parties the highest hit is horrible) to get a decent hit I need the following to occur:
It needs to crit - my tank specced GF has a crit chance of under 20% and I need to use the following buffs / debuffs
- Mark the target - ITF - Villians menace - Wheel of Elements Fire - max out Shield Warriors Wrath - tide of iron - have the mobs health less than 40% for the 2x damage
that's a pain in the @rse to get all those things to line up and with the crappy crit chance it happens very infrequently
Meanwhile the CW hits regularly in the 200K+ range with ice knife all the time. All you need to do is use a rotation of COI, IT then SS (mobs are frozen) then Ice knife with chilling presence slotted. Easy as when the base crit chance is around 80% . . . Whilst the GF is layering up buffs etc. for one big hit on a single mob, the CW has cleared the pack and is on the next one
Of the GF buffs above - ITF, tide of iron and marked target all affect other party members
My GF's hardest hitting Encounter is Anvil of Doom - 18K base max, 36K (when mob is below 40%) cooldown of 12ish secs
My CW's hardest hitting Encounter is Disintegrate - 85K max base - cool down of 6ish secs
Fair enough, its a tank/buff specced GF so maybe all this becomes irrelevant and a DPS specced GF would have much higher power and crit chance and do more damage , but if they are wanting to use ITF (without another GF buffing them), then they need to stack defence and that takes away from the other offensive stats. But would the buff/tank Vs DPS build difference make up for 1/2 the base damage and 2x cooldown ???
Surely there are other buffs / interactions in play here
Like I said, its not aligning with my experiences in the game and it definitely doesn't apply to the majority of GF's out there
No offense but what the heck u want?? Pick any mmorpg and always be same stuff.. Tank role is not be dmg dealer, his role is to tank=take incoming hits/protect team/party members.. U remind me as guys who choose DC which is supporter class by default and complain that his toon where outdps by gwf. Now lets take for moment your thoughts about GF dmg, Imagine u have highest survivability because u are tank. On top and medium/high dmg output.. It will simply kill reason to choose any other class.. Plus CW originally is Control class with ability to do dmg which is his secondary role. Real dmg dealers or here called strikers are GWF, SW, HR and TR. Enough to check http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Class and look to his primary and secondary role. And neither paladin neither GF have role as striker, neither primary neither secondary.
If u want be striker choose striker class in first place.. I choose warlock so I knew he will not be good as Controller by default and I do not complain about it. Same when I choose DC, I didn't complain about his dmg output, his role and overall class desing where not for this purpose... So once again no offense but stop complain that your GF is not GWF or other striker...
I'm not asking for, or wanting anything. Nor am I complaining about anything. Where am I wanting to be a striker? Geez, read it properly before you start shooting your mouth off.
I'm just saying my buff/tank spec'd GF doesn't do much DPS - less than half of my CW (who isn't DPS spec'd either). And (from my perspective anyway) that doesn't align with what other ppl are saying about GF's in general.
On a typical CN run, I'll be second last on paingiver, just above the DC and around 8-10 times lower than the top paingiver (usually a GWF). I'm ok being there.
To this I will add - there are ppl floating around saying that DPS should be halved, even for us tank/buff bot specc'd GFs and with the end game boon grind the way it is (which is all DPS dependent), that's a good way to stop people from playing that class. Also we need some DPS to keep aggro.
But I agree that a tank should not be the highest or even close to the highest DPS class, burst or otherwise.
Just saying, keep the DPS nerf cries focused on the problem, that's all.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
What now players want, that CW will be striker as primary role.
Actually, if you go back to the first computer based RPG's - i.e. Baldur's Gate, IWD etc. the mages and wizards were far and away the highest DPS but dead as soon as they got into melee.
Really if you are holding aggro, KV shouldn't make much/any difference unless ppl are standing in red zones cause the mobs should all be hitting you anyway. Have hardly even noticed it since the start of Mod 6, except during the permabubble times when ppl would just stand in red and wonder why they (and me) died. But maybe that's the difference between being tank and DPS spec'd tho
What now players want, that CW will be striker as primary role.
Actually, if you go back to the first computer based RPG's - i.e. Baldur's Gate, IWD etc. the mages and wizards were far and away the highest DPS but dead as soon as they got into melee.
Really if you are holding aggro, KV shouldn't make much/any difference unless ppl are standing in red zones cause the mobs should all be hitting you anyway. Have hardly even noticed it since the start of Mod 6, except during the permabubble times when ppl would just stand in red and wonder why they (and me) died. But maybe that's the difference between being tank and DPS spec'd tho
I stopped using KV, bc in some runs I was 4th in dmg taken and only the HP DC had less dmg taken under his belt. The first time I dropped KV we needed 4 tries killing the 1st CN boss bc nobody bothered to stop his/ her dmg rotation to move out of red areas.
Paladin and GF are what you should be comparing, GF hits way too hard for a tank and OP hits like it is using a spoon instead of a mace. From the looks of some of those maces OP has, they should be cracking some heads.
I saw an op Prot doing 60M damages in CN, I was ahead of him with over 100M, but don't say that OP hit with a spoon, that's not true, all depends on your build and your gear...
Paladin and GF are what you should be comparing, GF hits way too hard for a tank and OP hits like it is using a spoon instead of a mace. From the looks of some of those maces OP has, they should be cracking some heads.
I saw an op Prot doing 60M damages in CN, I was ahead of him with over 100M, but don't say that OP hit with a spoon, that's not true, all depends on your build and your gear...
Haha. Have you tried farming influence with a Pali? I put Trans. Feytouched on it just to be able to kill anything at all.lol
I think I found the answer on why my OP guildmate gets top 2 in paingiver chart in edemo run.
Firstly, damage done to yourself through Divine Protector and Binding Oath counts towards paingiver. This gives extremely flawed numbers when using Paingiver as a measurement - who would've thought?! - for OP damage. When you're in eDemo, and he's about to fire the 'take shelter in a sanity well'-thingamabob, and fire up DP, your Paingiver skyrockets.
Secondly, there's pretty much one way an OP can get tons of actual damage: Owlbear Cub, High HP (Aura of Courage) and Burning Light. Oh, and that requires low crit, of course. If the party is worth it's salt, most of the stuff will be dead before the OP fires his Burning Light.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
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today all u need is burst damage so GWF is popular, I guess
You mean....DPS....right? What's this about burst? Also, GWF is also overrated because of one thing, expectations. If it's not met, other party members are happy to kick you off the instance. If you can't dish out their expected damage, tanks will leave. Look at Tiamat runs. If GWF use IBS as burst instead of AP gain, you aren't in your primary role anymore. That's TR's and SW's job. Not GWF.
Plus CW originally is Control class with ability to do dmg which is his secondary role. Real dmg dealers or here called strikers are GWF, SW, HR and TR.
You do understand that you're wrong by simply looking at what the primary attribute does for the Control Wizard class?
INT gives Damage Boost, not Controlling power.
WIS adds more controlling power, however not by much. WIS is used primarily by the Oppressor classes and notably in PvP where they're logically going to invest in the Controlling aspects and Recharging speed alongside with the HP/CON options.
Also, controlling powers are super-weak since MOD6, so no CW plays them as their primary skill. Just because it says on the Wiki "Controller/Striker" that implies the level of controlling options for the class i.e. "Have more controlling options and encounters THAN another class", which is completely true if you think about it.
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Comments
I'm sure that a 4man GF+DC party would HAMSTER CN.
I also don't see buffs and debuffs as an issue, tbh. Some broken 2x procs, yes, but overall BUFFs and DEBUFFS are the thing why there're different people in the team. That's a good thing imho.
And it's a win-win situation for everyone since even without a lot of DPS, you're still a good player since buffs are given regardless of your IL/skill. A low lvl Renegade is super-useful to the team, for instance, and a welcomed member. Same goes for buff/debuff GF/DC. I can't see the issue with that.
The only problem, as I see it, is that people due to the change of the nature of game circa MOD6, learned to use buffs/debuffs far more than before to their own advantage.
The 5man CW run became obsolete. Same like the 5man GWF run became obsolete after MOd3 got introduced.
Variety is a good thing.
Problem is with the classes that don't really bring anything to the table unless super-equipped. Such is the Thaumaturge tree, for instance. You don't really need CWs anymore in the PT imho since OP/GF mitigate all damage + Yeti as compatriots (HA!) furthermore supplemented by one SW + one GWF + one HR and there you go.
Control's not useful to anyone since it doesn't work as much as it used to be and there's a fine line of work where it becomes unnecessary for CW to play at all since damage is mitigated at all times.
And many people like playing with a CW, so CW should be useful again and not just like a buff-bot.
paladin tree feat from light that shares 25% of his power to his allies after 6 seconds?
i am very gla my pt to include and paladin and gf and cleric.
BACK in m3 i remember very few healing sources and a cleric should be in the pt to kill first-2nd boss in karrundax. many area effects could burn you down + archers they needed at the right time to get control from a wizard or the big giant spawned to make harder the fight? GOOd old days. AND now we have the stupid orcus hit me hit me and i will die thing.
SO if you have an alt cw likes to control. step 1 leave guild 2: play with a stone with enchants r7 3: no mount insignia . 4: choose similar geared pt members and go run the content. then come back and tell us was your control useful? Did your pt took a breath? did your pt with your control-dps help avoided the one shots?
THE module at august seems promising with new tier dungeon lets see
GF is a pure tank, so, it makes perfect sense that his powers are gonna be more powerful than the op when it comes to tanking.
Now buff wise, i don't think his buffs are overpowered, maybe with a DC, but on his own, it's definatly not over the top...
Knight's valor = try using it without a DC...
U remind me as guys who choose DC which is supporter class by default and complain that his toon where outdps by gwf.
Now lets take for moment your thoughts about GF dmg, Imagine u have highest survivability because u are tank. On top and medium/high dmg output.. It will simply kill reason to choose any other class..
Plus CW originally is Control class with ability to do dmg which is his secondary role. Real dmg dealers or here called strikers are GWF, SW, HR and TR.
Enough to check http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Class and look to his primary and secondary role.
And neither paladin neither GF have role as striker, neither primary neither secondary.
If u want be striker choose striker class in first place.. I choose warlock so I knew he will not be good as Controller by default and I do not complain about it. Same when I choose DC, I didn't complain about his dmg output, his role and overall class desing where not for this purpose...
So once again no offense but stop complain that your GF is not GWF or other striker...
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Teamwork in this game is hosed. Too much 'it's all about me' and blaming and complaining and nerfing and auction jacking; generally trying to screw over others for their own benefit.
This game has done a 180 from team-based to solo-play cover your own butt, stock-broker playing.
I laugh when I see someone use the word 'community' on this board. Give me a break. This is a shark den.
It's the same old lines you get on this board from posters now that if you don't play the way they think you should, you're incompetent or don't know how to play your class or you're limited, or your guild/friend list sucks etc. The knee jerk response is shoot for below-the-belt-insults before even seeing a response on why you disagree.
I got told that if I can't run KV without a cleric.. and tank, and buff, and agro, I don't know how to play. Such rhetorical garbage like this. Way of the day of what's left of the player base in this game now. These posts are garbage. I think everyone knows that, and the ones pushing for nerfs don't care. They want superiority but falsely feign a desire for class balance. Post histories tell the truth.
On the subject guild/friend list, I'm pretty much out of touch on it. Never bother. Always PUG and LFG or the legit channel if you get it but I didn't even use it and no one calls for a group on anything in that channel. And the guild runs from the higher ranks, which is a rarity for me (different timezone, can't blame them).
I'm just saying my buff/tank spec'd GF doesn't do much DPS - less than half of my CW (who isn't DPS spec'd either). And (from my perspective anyway) that doesn't align with what other ppl are saying about GF's in general.
On a typical CN run, I'll be second last on paingiver, just above the DC and around 8-10 times lower than the top paingiver (usually a GWF). I'm ok being there.
To this I will add - there are ppl floating around saying that DPS should be halved, even for us tank/buff bot specc'd GFs and with the end game boon grind the way it is (which is all DPS dependent), that's a good way to stop people from playing that class. Also we need some DPS to keep aggro.
But I agree that a tank should not be the highest or even close to the highest DPS class, burst or otherwise.
Just saying, keep the DPS nerf cries focused on the problem, that's all.
Secondly, there's pretty much one way an OP can get tons of actual damage: Owlbear Cub, High HP (Aura of Courage) and Burning Light. Oh, and that requires low crit, of course. If the party is worth it's salt, most of the stuff will be dead before the OP fires his Burning Light.
sometimes SW or CW.
in the past CW was the most common due to the need of control
today all u need is burst damage so GWF is popular, I guess
in PVP its different and most high players are PVP spec.
Also, GWF is also overrated because of one thing, expectations. If it's not met, other party members are happy to kick you off the instance.
If you can't dish out their expected damage, tanks will leave. Look at Tiamat runs.
If GWF use IBS as burst instead of AP gain, you aren't in your primary role anymore. That's TR's and SW's job. Not GWF.
INT gives Damage Boost, not Controlling power.
WIS adds more controlling power, however not by much. WIS is used primarily by the Oppressor classes and notably in PvP where they're logically going to invest in the Controlling aspects and Recharging speed alongside with the HP/CON options.
Also, controlling powers are super-weak since MOD6, so no CW plays them as their primary skill. Just because it says on the Wiki "Controller/Striker" that implies the level of controlling options for the class i.e. "Have more controlling options and encounters THAN another class", which is completely true if you think about it.