show me the same gf otudps everyone to every dungeon and then i will believe you. IN SO MANY stacked buffs debuffs like demogorgon everything can happen. AND still waiting those monsters gf to see them in action like a cn run for example.
http://imgur.com/a/asiHr Specially for you, 50 paingiver charts from my personal collection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7LVup_8s3Q And a CN run, sadly it's only a duo run, full party CN is too easy and boring to record. (You can also check some videos of GF soloing dungeons in my signature, if you want of course )
when you dealing damage you have 5% chance to strike again at least 50% of your weapon damage rank 2 +12 % rank 3 +12 %rank 4 + 12 %. that is the steel blitz tooltip so explain how that low propability also is a weapon damage affected from debuffs only (or and buffs ? who knows) make that big difference?
I thought exactly the same when I first heard about CS + Blitz combo, but after 2 weeks of testing it in various instances I can definitely say that it makes a HUGE difference.
O.O Thank you for all the feedback everyone, a lot of good opinions and points that I don't think I'm experienced enough to even discuss with you guys, so I'll leave you to it
&Just so people stop saying it, we're only competitive amongst ourselves, if we're getting gold all the time, or running dungeons really easily then the only way to have fun through that is trying to best each other....
But from everything I've read..
I want to pick either a TR, HR or SW all full dps speccd
TR:
Pro - Seems fun, I enjoy the class & most mechanics are great once you understand them. High dps & I can keep my Vorpal
Con - The duplicate class in the party problem & think I would have a hard time playing with bad pugs
SW (Full dps, Fury build):
Pro - Really really enjoy this class (apart from 60-70 -_-), and I've seen crazy numbers from high ranking sw's Also love the amount of numbers on screen with TT.
Con - Could be patched/fixed/nerfed at anytime.
HR (Full dps Trapper):
Pro - My first dps class & the only one where I've been outdps'ing higher il's (could just be their builds) definitely do like this guy and if I get a dread enchant....
Con - I HATE running out of charges which seems to happen too often, probably won't be much of a problem once I'm stronger but I doubt I'll enjoy myself getting to that stage. Not too fond of the shift either.
I highly recommend that you don't waste your time with sw. Currently it's very bad class outside of party buffs. Or if you decide to play pvp, it's gonna be really tough class to play.
Oh, is the SW that bad? I've been following Daigotsu (Kolat) and Fernu and they seem to do really well with a Soulbinder Fury setup....But it looks like A LOT of effort just to reach the same numbers as everyone else. But I like a challenge...
i have 4k sw, but class is so bad that i decided to move my enchants to my alt. As said damage is great when you are in buff party, but that's only good thing i can say about sw. I recommend to wait for promised sw fix (over a year ago), currently you won't find many (if any) happy sw player.
my GF is speed demon "group buffer" Into the Fray made the team hit more and faster for spell durations and primarly use Dark enchants to get GF out of web and root effects quicker.
it really help the team to run off and away from nasty red ring effects.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Depends on content run. In ETOS my GWF (or possibly another) regularly get paingiver (post-nerfs), though SWs take it from time to time. Orcus swats me down nearly every time, however, and others overtake me completing the boss. As examples. Had a CW steal my thunder in an ETOS the other day, however....
I'm not overly concerned about BEING paingiver, but I do like to watch the numbers.
I haven't done Tiamat or EDemo lately, so can't say there.
I love how every1 makes GF top dps in mod9 but it still hard to find GF in game, in every mode when there was a OP DPS class 50%+ were playing it. Now every1 says GF its the highest DPS in game but i dont see them playing GF... strange.
the top dps class depends on play style and what we take in consideration, if its paingiver board it changes from a dungeon with alot of trash or just 1 boss. same if u have a dc/gf buffing or not.
Just play the game get better try to improve your build/gear/play style and u end up on top of paingiver sooner or later.
if its just for showoff do a pug run record it and at the end say "I did more dmg than every1 else combined". and be happy..lol
Oh wow, I think I'm just going to leave my sw then... So Hr vs Tr.. Good point, I regularly get paingiver and it's not that great, ESPECIALLY with pugs..Kind of boring
Going against what I said, I may just make a DC...Could be more fun watching my friends fighting to get to the top of paingiver lol Any build/guide recommendations for a DC? I'd prefer to heal more than buff/debuff but either's cool
It isn´t worth to discuss because it´s quite obvious, but yes, again, it is a problem if a tank has the highest burst in PVP...in case anyone cares about PVP atm. Regarding PVE, I really don´t care who takes the crown, take it, eat it or pin it on your wall All in all , play the class you enjoy, and if joy is the measure I also would not recommend to play warlock, not in PVP and not in PVE, there are classes wich are quite more rewarding atm.
Yes, I am soulbinder fury. Yes, soulbinder fury is working mostly around buff-buggy murderous flames. But not only.
Yes, soulbinder fury can do high dps without buff-buggy murderous flames. Soul scorch is the real king there. Top? Probably not. At least not without knowing how to play class and it's tricky mechanics. You will top charts with other characters more sooner and easier than with SW.
As long as this game requires 0 strategy and 0 team-work, everyone will be hyper-focused (and sensitive) on who's doing what DPS, even if the outcomes are highly related to bugs and non-WIA skills/feats/enchantments.
http://imgur.com/a/asiHr Specially for you, 50 paingiver charts from my personal collection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7LVup_8s3Q And a CN run, sadly it's only a duo run, full party CN is too easy and boring to record. (You can also check some videos of GF soloing dungeons in my signature, if you want of course )
wow specially for me and the other guys, that proves what? other than u pritscreen every time u get paingiver board? i have paingiver title also on my GF iam paingiver in most pug runs, i have even killed bosses alone after every1 dies and so on. when i run with my guild (ppl at my iLv i can tell u gf doesnt even have time to do that much dmg cuz since we are slow class when u get there there nothing to hit.
but i give u credit to print screen compile and post all those top paingiver just to brag.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Now i dont know why you have to attack me , when i am not your enemy. If you dont care about the TOP DPS, it means that it shouldn't bother you if the DEVS will goin to tonne down the guardian fighter.
Maybe that's because this is getting dragged into another Nerf the GF discussion and that has the likelihood of affecting the vast majority of GF's in a negative way . . . . . and funnily enough we aren't super excited about it
some of GFs that do not care about class balance just throw that poor excuse in these threads
Are you talking about PvP or PvE? GF's are definitely not creating balance issues with DPS in PvE unless your referring to them buffing the DPS classes too much. There seems to be a few PvP'ers with their noses out of joint that are dragging class balancing issues in PvP into Neverwinter in general (i.e. PvE)
iit goes without sayin'they need to be tonned down
this is your opinion, not all of us agree
With the amount of damage that is coming out DPS classes - GF's need the DPS we have at the moment to hold aggro. In CN, for example, my GF is forced to run Enhanced Mark and Enforced threat just to hold aggro, KV and ITF is expected from everyone so that leaves no DPS options. Tank specced GF's don't need there DPS gimped anymore thank you.
Finally, if this is such a problem in PvE, why is it that 9 out of 10 players have never seen a GF with better than average DPS?
another thread that soon as DPS is mentioned, it degrades into a nerf the GF fest.
wow specially for me and the other guys, that proves what? other than u pritscreen every time u get paingiver board? i have paingiver title also on my GF iam paingiver in most pug runs, i have even killed bosses alone after every1 dies and so on. when i run with my guild (ppl at my iLv i can tell u gf doesnt even have time to do that much dmg cuz since we are slow class when u get there there nothing to hit.
but i give u credit to print screen compile and post all those top paingiver just to brag.
This is not about bragging, but to share data. If you think, that his numbers are from PuG runs with bad players, you are wrong. We are in the same guild and while most of our members are PvP speced, some are BIS PvE players, playing their chars since alpha or beta, tuning them up time after time with the help of ATC, friends, preview or the forums.
I have seen him top paingiver in SH dragon runs, when I ran with my CW. Sure, I run rene for the buffs while a traum could get some more personal dps and I used HV set for the debuffs, but we had 4k+ PvE GWFs, CWs etc. who did less dmg then he did.
I think one of the reasons you dont see many dps GFs is, that they are quite useless without really good gear. I did some runs with a PvE dps GF and they are a pain in the HAMSTER. With low IL he was not able to hold aggro against high dps players and died a lot without significant dmg. Now he deals decent dmg, but by using enhanced mark, knights challenge or tab he grabs aggro and dies or kills other party members (bc of the aggro shift). To elaborate, I ran with my 3k tactican GF, using enhanced mark and all the other goodies, to hold aggro. The thing is, with similar IL, I use ITF and KV and I have to tank while he can deal dmg using 3 encounters without blocking the boss.
I can believe, that BIS or well geared DPS GFs can deal high dps while tanking or be a good dps, if another tank is around. Until then, you will have above mentioned problems. Furthermore many GFs with decent gear prefer high def for ITF to personal dps.
The moment I started my actual mainclass I did not believe it will perform any good anytime..... but the class proved me wrong because I leveled up to 70, run a pure damagespec with damage artifacts, a pVorp and a near maxed companion and so I got the paingivercrown.
There is enough prove not only in this thread, showing that a GF can do good in PVE. Why can´t some people just stop denying it? This is not a discussion about one class, so please to the guys with blue gear and a lesser vorpal and maybe 3 lesser bondings...look 3 lines above what I wrote and in case you want to be a damagedealer go for it.
Good enough to clear all dungeons. True. Good enough to get easy thru T2s. Espacially 2nd boss in eToS is good for every DPS class to hit high. It doesnt compare to your 41 mio hit with your MF but its pretty high. Nice one.
Good enough to clear all dungeons. True. Good enough to get easy thru T2s. Espacially 2nd boss in eToS is good for every DPS class to hit high. It doesnt compare to your 41 mio hit with your MF but its pretty high. Nice one.
Indeed - can't compare to bugged MF but is high enough. And we'd keep in mind that soul scorch has curse consume effect which double it's damage over time and it's necrotic, so it's counted for creeping death and executioners gift feats. On top of that, you can cast 5-8 in a row so it's good for high hp targets like heralds, tiamat od demogorgon.
Deja vu. Another honest thread turned buff me/nerf them. This board, and game, are getting very depressing now.
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revan06100Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
GWF,TR or SW, it depends on the build/IL/Group... Saw TR outdps me badly (20M ahead of me...), i'm 3.8 GWF. Same with SW in ETOS once. Usually i'm first party dps, and from far... But GWF are not definate highest dps, loads of things can alterate how much damages you deal...
I would love to see some dps gf gameplay video's. My gf (conq) has about 65% crit and trans&r12 gear, but still cw's gwf's etc. do at least double my damage. So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited May 2016
3 Pages of posts and not a single member knows what a true dps is. What you are afraid the most ? What puts fear in the heart of players and dragons at the same time ? There is only one thing in this game that can kill you, your spirit and will or that boss.
RNGessus !
All hail the great RNGesuss and his evil minion, the lag.
Just let me roll that class and I'll show you the real damage I can do with lock-boxes and pwards.
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
In certain circumstances, it can happen. 1 GF buffing another GF that's buffing themselves in a raid can tip the DPS scale pretty high and make the GF look like a real pain-giver. The same buffs make the GF PvP burst damage look incredible (and it is). The GF has buffs that with the current power creep, do push the DPS pretty high. Like Knight's Challenge and Into the Frey.
When you have a Tiamat head or demo with tons of debuffs and is only alive for 10 seconds, then tack on 200% extra damage buffs for those 10 seconds, you start seeing Anvil of Doom hits in the millions before other classes can build dmg stacks or even get attacks in.
Why most of us GFs don't see a possible GF paingiver because we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.), but when we are buffed by another GF, a DPS GF can compete with DPS classes and those DPS class paingiver-junkies are very upset. My opinion is too much energy is expended on complaining about DPS in a game with 9,000 other broken things but I'm not saying it should stay the way it is, but that it is blown out of proportion for the amount of noise being generated on the topic. Cyptic isn't going to turn off the NWO servers because 3 GFs won paingiver in eDemo this week.
I put the idea out there about fixing ITF back like 9 'Nerf them/buff me' threads ago. Cap it to max 50%, but modify the Tactician-only feet that gives 5% and make it 25%. Add more party tmp HP. Tactician is really just a ITF buff-bot.
Knight's Challange in PvP probably needs a nerf. Or PvE and PvP but make the cooldown like ITF so the cool-down clicks while it's running and nerf its damage. It's a skill that could be nerfed to uselessness easily. It's only good in short fights and the cooldown is awful.
I heard the idea about the Conq and protector capstones getting swapped, so the Conq gets stacks from attacking and the protector gets stacks from getting hit. Not a bad idea. So a GF PvP block-then-pounce burst dmg would be less unless it attacks.
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
There are other RPGs out there that have skills that offer more DPS at the expense of defense. That would be cool to add one to the Conq tree.
Comments
Specially for you, 50 paingiver charts from my personal collection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7LVup_8s3Q
And a CN run, sadly it's only a duo run, full party CN is too easy and boring to record.
(You can also check some videos of GF soloing dungeons in my signature, if you want of course
I thought exactly the same when I first heard about CS + Blitz combo, but after 2 weeks of testing it in various instances I can definitely say that it makes a HUGE difference.
Here's an exemplary ACT of a Tiamat run from my early CS+Blitz tests:
http://imgur.com/a/AbrO1
&Just so people stop saying it, we're only competitive amongst ourselves, if we're getting gold all the time, or running dungeons really easily then the only way to have fun through that is trying to best each other....
But from everything I've read..
I want to pick either a TR, HR or SW all full dps speccd
TR:
Pro - Seems fun, I enjoy the class & most mechanics are great once you understand them. High dps & I can keep my Vorpal
Con - The duplicate class in the party problem & think I would have a hard time playing with bad pugs
SW (Full dps, Fury build):
Pro - Really really enjoy this class (apart from 60-70 -_-), and I've seen crazy numbers from high ranking sw's
Also love the amount of numbers on screen with TT.
Con - Could be patched/fixed/nerfed at anytime.
HR (Full dps Trapper):
Pro - My first dps class & the only one where I've been outdps'ing higher il's (could just be their builds) definitely do like this guy and if I get a dread enchant....
Con - I HATE running out of charges which seems to happen too often, probably won't be much of a problem once I'm stronger but I doubt I'll enjoy myself getting to that stage.
Not too fond of the shift either.
A dps GF sounds really interesting though xD
But I like a challenge...
I recommend to wait for promised sw fix (over a year ago), currently you won't find many (if any) happy sw player.
it really help the team to run off and away from nasty red ring effects.
I'm not overly concerned about BEING paingiver, but I do like to watch the numbers.
I haven't done Tiamat or EDemo lately, so can't say there.
the top dps class depends on play style and what we take in consideration, if its paingiver board it changes from a dungeon with alot of trash or just 1 boss. same if u have a dc/gf buffing or not.
Just play the game get better try to improve your build/gear/play style and u end up on top of paingiver sooner or later.
if its just for showoff do a pug run record it and at the end say "I did more dmg than every1 else combined". and be happy..lol
So Hr vs Tr..
Good point, I regularly get paingiver and it's not that great, ESPECIALLY with pugs..Kind of boring
Going against what I said, I may just make a DC...Could be more fun watching my friends fighting to get to the top of paingiver lol
Any build/guide recommendations for a DC? I'd prefer to heal more than buff/debuff but either's cool
The steel blitz thing is so bugged though. I did open up a bugs case for it. Steel Blitz proced more then CS did with me standing still.
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1216595/gf-commanders-strike-is-constantly-procing-steel-blitz-with-other-players-attacks
I'd rather see things like this and upcapped ITF fixed then ignorantly applying blanket nerfs to the GF and pushing us back to the days of mod 4.
Regarding PVE, I really don´t care who takes the crown, take it, eat it or pin it on your wall
All in all , play the class you enjoy, and if joy is the measure I also would not recommend to play warlock, not in PVP and not in PVE, there are classes wich are quite more rewarding atm.
Yes, soulbinder fury is working mostly around buff-buggy murderous flames. But not only.
Yes, soulbinder fury can do high dps without buff-buggy murderous flames. Soul scorch is the real king there.
Top? Probably not. At least not without knowing how to play class and it's tricky mechanics. You will top charts with other characters more sooner and easier than with SW.
Is it enjoyable? Hell yes.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
Sad, This is all that's left.
As long as this game requires 0 strategy and 0 team-work, everyone will be hyper-focused (and sensitive) on who's doing what DPS, even if the outcomes are highly related to bugs and non-WIA skills/feats/enchantments.
when i run with my guild (ppl at my iLv i can tell u gf doesnt even have time to do that much dmg cuz since we are slow class when u get there there nothing to hit.
but i give u credit to print screen compile and post all those top paingiver just to brag.
Are you talking about PvP or PvE? GF's are definitely not creating balance issues with DPS in PvE unless your referring to them buffing the DPS classes too much. There seems to be a few PvP'ers with their noses out of joint that are dragging class balancing issues in PvP into Neverwinter in general (i.e. PvE) this is your opinion, not all of us agree
With the amount of damage that is coming out DPS classes - GF's need the DPS we have at the moment to hold aggro. In CN, for example, my GF is forced to run Enhanced Mark and Enforced threat just to hold aggro, KV and ITF is expected from everyone so that leaves no DPS options. Tank specced GF's don't need there DPS gimped anymore thank you.
Finally, if this is such a problem in PvE, why is it that 9 out of 10 players have never seen a GF with better than average DPS?
another thread that soon as DPS is mentioned, it degrades into a nerf the GF fest.
I have seen him top paingiver in SH dragon runs, when I ran with my CW. Sure, I run rene for the buffs while a traum could get some more personal dps and I used HV set for the debuffs, but we had 4k+ PvE GWFs, CWs etc. who did less dmg then he did.
I think one of the reasons you dont see many dps GFs is, that they are quite useless without really good gear. I did some runs with a PvE dps GF and they are a pain in the HAMSTER. With low IL he was not able to hold aggro against high dps players and died a lot without significant dmg. Now he deals decent dmg, but by using enhanced mark, knights challenge or tab he grabs aggro and dies or kills other party members (bc of the aggro shift). To elaborate, I ran with my 3k tactican GF, using enhanced mark and all the other goodies, to hold aggro. The thing is, with similar IL, I use ITF and KV and I have to tank while he can deal dmg using 3 encounters without blocking the boss.
I can believe, that BIS or well geared DPS GFs can deal high dps while tanking or be a good dps, if another tank is around. Until then, you will have above mentioned problems. Furthermore many GFs with decent gear prefer high def for ITF to personal dps.
There is enough prove not only in this thread, showing that a GF can do good in PVE. Why can´t some people just stop denying it? This is not a discussion about one class, so please to the guys with blue gear and a lesser vorpal and maybe 3 lesser bondings...look 3 lines above what I wrote and in case you want to be a damagedealer go for it.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
Espacially 2nd boss in eToS is good for every DPS class to hit high. It doesnt compare to your 41 mio hit with your MF but its pretty high. Nice one.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
Another honest thread turned buff me/nerf them.
This board, and game, are getting very depressing now.
Saw TR outdps me badly (20M ahead of me...), i'm 3.8 GWF.
Same with SW in ETOS once.
Usually i'm first party dps, and from far... But GWF are not definate highest dps, loads of things can alterate how much damages you deal...
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
What you are afraid the most ? What puts fear in the heart of players and dragons at the same time ?
There is only one thing in this game that can kill you, your spirit and will or that boss.
RNGessus !
All hail the great RNGesuss and his evil minion, the lag.
Just let me roll that class and I'll show you the real damage I can do with lock-boxes and pwards.
1 GF buffing another GF that's buffing themselves in a raid can tip the DPS scale pretty high and make the GF look like a real pain-giver. The same buffs make the GF PvP burst damage look incredible (and it is).
The GF has buffs that with the current power creep, do push the DPS pretty high. Like Knight's Challenge and Into the Frey.
When you have a Tiamat head or demo with tons of debuffs and is only alive for 10 seconds, then tack on 200% extra damage buffs for those 10 seconds, you start seeing Anvil of Doom hits in the millions before other classes can build dmg stacks or even get attacks in.
Why most of us GFs don't see a possible GF paingiver because we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.), but when we are buffed by another GF, a DPS GF can compete with DPS classes and those DPS class paingiver-junkies are very upset. My opinion is too much energy is expended on complaining about DPS in a game with 9,000 other broken things but I'm not saying it should stay the way it is, but that it is blown out of proportion for the amount of noise being generated on the topic. Cyptic isn't going to turn off the NWO servers because 3 GFs won paingiver in eDemo this week.
I put the idea out there about fixing ITF back like 9 'Nerf them/buff me' threads ago. Cap it to max 50%, but modify the Tactician-only feet that gives 5% and make it 25%. Add more party tmp HP. Tactician is really just a ITF buff-bot.
Knight's Challange in PvP probably needs a nerf. Or PvE and PvP but make the cooldown like ITF so the cool-down clicks while it's running and nerf its damage. It's a skill that could be nerfed to uselessness easily. It's only good in short fights and the cooldown is awful.
I heard the idea about the Conq and protector capstones getting swapped, so the Conq gets stacks from attacking and the protector gets stacks from getting hit. Not a bad idea. So a GF PvP block-then-pounce burst dmg would be less unless it attacks.
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
There are other RPGs out there that have skills that offer more DPS at the expense of defense. That would be cool to add one to the Conq tree.