Good enough to clear all dungeons. True. Good enough to get easy thru T2s. Espacially 2nd boss in eToS is good for every DPS class to hit high. It doesnt compare to your 41 mio hit with your MF but its pretty high. Nice one.
Good enough to clear all dungeons. True. Good enough to get easy thru T2s. Espacially 2nd boss in eToS is good for every DPS class to hit high. It doesnt compare to your 41 mio hit with your MF but its pretty high. Nice one.
Indeed - can't compare to bugged MF but is high enough. And we'd keep in mind that soul scorch has curse consume effect which double it's damage over time and it's necrotic, so it's counted for creeping death and executioners gift feats. On top of that, you can cast 5-8 in a row so it's good for high hp targets like heralds, tiamat od demogorgon.
Deja vu. Another honest thread turned buff me/nerf them. This board, and game, are getting very depressing now.
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revan06100Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
GWF,TR or SW, it depends on the build/IL/Group... Saw TR outdps me badly (20M ahead of me...), i'm 3.8 GWF. Same with SW in ETOS once. Usually i'm first party dps, and from far... But GWF are not definate highest dps, loads of things can alterate how much damages you deal...
I would love to see some dps gf gameplay video's. My gf (conq) has about 65% crit and trans&r12 gear, but still cw's gwf's etc. do at least double my damage. So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited May 2016
3 Pages of posts and not a single member knows what a true dps is. What you are afraid the most ? What puts fear in the heart of players and dragons at the same time ? There is only one thing in this game that can kill you, your spirit and will or that boss.
RNGessus !
All hail the great RNGesuss and his evil minion, the lag.
Just let me roll that class and I'll show you the real damage I can do with lock-boxes and pwards.
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
In certain circumstances, it can happen. 1 GF buffing another GF that's buffing themselves in a raid can tip the DPS scale pretty high and make the GF look like a real pain-giver. The same buffs make the GF PvP burst damage look incredible (and it is). The GF has buffs that with the current power creep, do push the DPS pretty high. Like Knight's Challenge and Into the Frey.
When you have a Tiamat head or demo with tons of debuffs and is only alive for 10 seconds, then tack on 200% extra damage buffs for those 10 seconds, you start seeing Anvil of Doom hits in the millions before other classes can build dmg stacks or even get attacks in.
Why most of us GFs don't see a possible GF paingiver because we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.), but when we are buffed by another GF, a DPS GF can compete with DPS classes and those DPS class paingiver-junkies are very upset. My opinion is too much energy is expended on complaining about DPS in a game with 9,000 other broken things but I'm not saying it should stay the way it is, but that it is blown out of proportion for the amount of noise being generated on the topic. Cyptic isn't going to turn off the NWO servers because 3 GFs won paingiver in eDemo this week.
I put the idea out there about fixing ITF back like 9 'Nerf them/buff me' threads ago. Cap it to max 50%, but modify the Tactician-only feet that gives 5% and make it 25%. Add more party tmp HP. Tactician is really just a ITF buff-bot.
Knight's Challange in PvP probably needs a nerf. Or PvE and PvP but make the cooldown like ITF so the cool-down clicks while it's running and nerf its damage. It's a skill that could be nerfed to uselessness easily. It's only good in short fights and the cooldown is awful.
I heard the idea about the Conq and protector capstones getting swapped, so the Conq gets stacks from attacking and the protector gets stacks from getting hit. Not a bad idea. So a GF PvP block-then-pounce burst dmg would be less unless it attacks.
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
There are other RPGs out there that have skills that offer more DPS at the expense of defense. That would be cool to add one to the Conq tree.
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
So gf actually ain't top damage dealing class (not surprised)
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
3 Pages of posts and not a single member knows what a true dps is. What you are afraid the most ? What puts fear in the heart of players and dragons at the same time ? There is only one thing in this game that can kill you, your spirit and will or that boss.
RNGessus !
All hail the great RNGesuss and his evil minion, the lag.
Just let me roll that class and I'll show you the real damage I can do with lock-boxes and pwards.
lol, love it
best post ive read for a while
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
In certain circumstances, it can happen. 1 GF buffing another GF that's buffing themselves in a raid can tip the DPS scale pretty high and make the GF look like a real pain-giver. The same buffs make the GF PvP burst damage look incredible (and it is). The GF has buffs that with the current power creep, do push the DPS pretty high. Like Knight's Challenge and Into the Frey.
When you have a Tiamat head or demo with tons of debuffs and is only alive for 10 seconds, then tack on 200% extra damage buffs for those 10 seconds, you start seeing Anvil of Doom hits in the millions before other classes can build dmg stacks or even get attacks in.
Why most of us GFs don't see a possible GF paingiver because we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.), but when we are buffed by another GF, a DPS GF can compete with DPS classes and those DPS class paingiver-junkies are very upset. My opinion is too much energy is expended on complaining about DPS in a game with 9,000 other broken things but I'm not saying it should stay the way it is, but that it is blown out of proportion for the amount of noise being generated on the topic. Cyptic isn't going to turn off the NWO servers because 3 GFs won paingiver in eDemo this week.
I put the idea out there about fixing ITF back like 9 'Nerf them/buff me' threads ago. Cap it to max 50%, but modify the Tactician-only feet that gives 5% and make it 25%. Add more party tmp HP. Tactician is really just a ITF buff-bot.
Knight's Challange in PvP probably needs a nerf. Or PvE and PvP but make the cooldown like ITF so the cool-down clicks while it's running and nerf its damage. It's a skill that could be nerfed to uselessness easily. It's only good in short fights and the cooldown is awful.
I heard the idea about the Conq and protector capstones getting swapped, so the Conq gets stacks from attacking and the protector gets stacks from getting hit. Not a bad idea. So a GF PvP block-then-pounce burst dmg would be less unless it attacks.
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
There are other RPGs out there that have skills that offer more DPS at the expense of defense. That would be cool to add one to the Conq tree.
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
In certain circumstances, it can happen. 1 GF buffing another GF that's buffing themselves in a raid can tip the DPS scale pretty high and make the GF look like a real pain-giver. The same buffs make the GF PvP burst damage look incredible (and it is). The GF has buffs that with the current power creep, do push the DPS pretty high. Like Knight's Challenge and Into the Frey.
When you have a Tiamat head or demo with tons of debuffs and is only alive for 10 seconds, then tack on 200% extra damage buffs for those 10 seconds, you start seeing Anvil of Doom hits in the millions before other classes can build dmg stacks or even get attacks in.
Why most of us GFs don't see a possible GF paingiver because we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.), but when we are buffed by another GF, a DPS GF can compete with DPS classes and those DPS class paingiver-junkies are very upset. My opinion is too much energy is expended on complaining about DPS in a game with 9,000 other broken things but I'm not saying it should stay the way it is, but that it is blown out of proportion for the amount of noise being generated on the topic. Cyptic isn't going to turn off the NWO servers because 3 GFs won paingiver in eDemo this week.
I put the idea out there about fixing ITF back like 9 'Nerf them/buff me' threads ago. Cap it to max 50%, but modify the Tactician-only feet that gives 5% and make it 25%. Add more party tmp HP. Tactician is really just a ITF buff-bot.
Knight's Challange in PvP probably needs a nerf. Or PvE and PvP but make the cooldown like ITF so the cool-down clicks while it's running and nerf its damage. It's a skill that could be nerfed to uselessness easily. It's only good in short fights and the cooldown is awful.
I heard the idea about the Conq and protector capstones getting swapped, so the Conq gets stacks from attacking and the protector gets stacks from getting hit. Not a bad idea. So a GF PvP block-then-pounce burst dmg would be less unless it attacks.
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
There are other RPGs out there that have skills that offer more DPS at the expense of defense. That would be cool to add one to the Conq tree.
SO if a gf use commander strike doing it on purpose to show is the highest damage dealer or to help the run to go faster?
we look for balance when a 4k player run ahead and clear 2k content and in that case is the great weapon fighter. BUT what happens if the same gwf is a 2k be at the same item level as the dungeon epic tos lets say. IN that case more possible a control wizard or a rogue to deal more damage because they have the control and the dodge to survive but even then it would be better for them to have a tank and heal to have a safe and fun run.
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
In certain circumstances, it can happen. 1 GF buffing another GF that's buffing themselves in a raid can tip the DPS scale pretty high and make the GF look like a real pain-giver. The same buffs make the GF PvP burst damage look incredible (and it is). The GF has buffs that with the current power creep, do push the DPS pretty high. Like Knight's Challenge and Into the Frey.
When you have a Tiamat head or demo with tons of debuffs and is only alive for 10 seconds, then tack on 200% extra damage buffs for those 10 seconds, you start seeing Anvil of Doom hits in the millions before other classes can build dmg stacks or even get attacks in.
Why most of us GFs don't see a possible GF paingiver because we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.), but when we are buffed by another GF, a DPS GF can compete with DPS classes and those DPS class paingiver-junkies are very upset. My opinion is too much energy is expended on complaining about DPS in a game with 9,000 other broken things but I'm not saying it should stay the way it is, but that it is blown out of proportion for the amount of noise being generated on the topic. Cyptic isn't going to turn off the NWO servers because 3 GFs won paingiver in eDemo this week.
I put the idea out there about fixing ITF back like 9 'Nerf them/buff me' threads ago. Cap it to max 50%, but modify the Tactician-only feet that gives 5% and make it 25%. Add more party tmp HP. Tactician is really just a ITF buff-bot.
Knight's Challange in PvP probably needs a nerf. Or PvE and PvP but make the cooldown like ITF so the cool-down clicks while it's running and nerf its damage. It's a skill that could be nerfed to uselessness easily. It's only good in short fights and the cooldown is awful.
I heard the idea about the Conq and protector capstones getting swapped, so the Conq gets stacks from attacking and the protector gets stacks from getting hit. Not a bad idea. So a GF PvP block-then-pounce burst dmg would be less unless it attacks.
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
There are other RPGs out there that have skills that offer more DPS at the expense of defense. That would be cool to add one to the Conq tree.
Except for the fact that freya is very clearly not using commanding strike+steel blitz, which can be seen in any of the combat logs I provided.
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
So gf actually ain't top damage dealing class (not surprised)
By this logic you can take SW out of the race too, bc his insane dmg numbers depend on buffs by other players. There is a difference between solo dps and group play.
The solo content is easy, if you are geared, so we have to look at group content. There we have 5, 10 and 25 player instances. Now we have classes with debuffs on enemies, area buffs and group buffs. To claim, that xy is highest dps is theoretical. I got outdpsed by ppl who deal significantly less dmg in dungeon runs, when we did EDemo, bc they were grouped with a ITF GF.
To claim 'highest' dps, you would have to set some rules, like a) solo or grouped, b) with or without buffs/ debuffs. If buffs and debuffs are considered, you have to state the number of players in the instance, bc in a good group a 25 player instance should have more buffs and debuffs, then with 5 players.
Thats why some ppl say class x has highest dps and others can claim the same for another class and they can all be right, bc one class can profit more from buffs and debuffs, then others and deal in specific situations more dmg then the other class.
This discussion ignores the game mechanic. The OP asked for highest DPS in his group. While any class could do decent dmg, his group would profit from a righteous DC more, than from another DD.
Except for the fact that freya is very clearly not using commanding strike+steel blitz, which can be seen in any of the combat logs I provided.
Sure. I was suggesting that the DPS caused by the skill is redirected to the players that proc it. I'm not insinuating it's the number #1 source of GF raid DPS but it's something that could even the numbers while still providing group support without inflating GF paingiver numbers, which is really what all this is about.
we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.)
In a typical 5 man, the GF can't slot pure DPS skills because they have to slot buff/agro skills. If you bring along a 2nd GF, the 3 encounter slots can now be opened up to be pure DPS skills like AoD, KB, and a 3rd like Florish or whatever.
SO if a gf use commander strike doing it on purpose to show is the highest damage dealer or to help the run to go faster?
Does it matter anymore with this much focusing on the paingiver charts these days? Some chase those stats like a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow and pay big $ to do it. And not like there is much else to do. I started using it (Commander's Strike & SB) on dragon runs in WoD where I want to get it done sooner and there is no paingiver chart.
What I would suggest is lets wait for the bonding stone changes to go live then lets see what's what.
wow specially for me and the other guys, that proves what? other than u pritscreen every time u get paingiver board? i have paingiver title also on my GF iam paingiver in most pug runs, i have even killed bosses alone after every1 dies and so on. when i run with my guild (ppl at my iLv i can tell u gf doesnt even have time to do that much dmg cuz since we are slow class when u get there there nothing to hit.
but i give u credit to print screen compile and post all those top paingiver just to brag.
I'll just point out wrong things here
- Screenshots, while not the most accurate data, are a good pointer to what people have discovered not so long ago. The sooner you accept it's truth, the sooner you will realize that GF class has some broken aspects of it if it can outdps the DPS specced GWF whilst hitting like a turtle. That is wrong no matter how you look at it, be it in PvP or PvE oriented content. - The game's not made so that you can one-on-one against a boss, it's a MMORPG after-all. That doesn't mean that you're highly skilled, it means that you have big damage reduction accompanied with a big damage output, and that generally is a no-no in most RPGs overall. - "People at my ilv" - Whoever accounts personal damage in terms of the ILVL is doing it wrong. Nothing more to add there. - Your gameplay with your guildies doesn't prove anything against the fact that GF has the biggest damage output potential despite having slow attack patterns. It is as it is. You can raise the shield, take a lot of damage, and then one-hit enemies that have less than 40% HP. The bigger and better your gear is with this, more damaging the power it will be, just like some people proved not so long ago with actual data.
In the end, a DPS specced GF is far stronger than a DPS specced GWF in Every aspect. That alone is a major flaw in the game. On the argument "Why so many people don't choose a DPS GF" is rather simple, people expect things to change PvE-wise, and on the topic of PvP GF's are among the most unkillable players, especially with a high tenacity.
(pardon for any grammar mistakes, in a rush)
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Every class has some broken aspects ! Thats a Tiamat-Run and this hunter is by far damagedealer Nr. 1, following some better geared 3k+ GWF, warlocks etc. So in Tiamat Hunter is topdamage, following this random-run, where the group nearly killed all heads in first round. Btw paingiver displays exactly what Act tells me, near same ammounts of damage.
SW: needs outside help to top charts. GWF: needs time to build stacks. Favors longer battles. TR: Depends on build...but the most successful build does best on fast battles
Example: Im 4k gwf on normal demo going against 4k rogue. He kills all mobs by the time i even have them marked. Hes up by 12 milion after phase 1. Phase 2 and 3 I have time to build stacks and buffs, i close the gap and we end at same damage.
If it were epic demo, he wouldn't out damage me in phase 1 since enemies have more life...so he cant 1 shot them...and i have chance to build stacks
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
GWF: needs time to build stacks. Favors longer battles.
TR: Depends on build...but the most successful build does best on fast battles
Example: Im 4k gwf on normal demo going against 4k rogue. He kills all mobs by the time i even have them marked. Hes up by 12 milion after phase 1. Phase 2 and 3 I have time to build stacks and buffs, i close the gap and we end at same damage.
If it were epic demo, he wouldn't out damage me in phase 1 since enemies have more life...so he cant 1 shot them...and i have chance to build stacks
That sounds weird, I"m not sure what is successful build for rogues nowadays, but with all of the widely used the DF bleed is about 30%-40% of the total damage, means that rogues rely on bleed (dot) that takes time to stack (2-3 DF rotation) to get going and needs to be maintained or the stacks drop. Having higher sustained and long fights than burst.
Maybe it's an issue of whom ran first to the mobs ? This usually what determines the 'dps' (paingiver chart) at the BiS levels, one get there first and kills the rest get nothing, it's irrelevant of class, just who finds the mobs first.
the sooner you will realize that GF class has some broken aspects of it if it can outdps the DPS specced GWF whilst hitting like a turtle.
A GF can out DPS a DPS specced GWF when the battles last as long as the GF's buffs last. In PvP and PvE. GWF hitting like a turtle? A little overly dramatic maybe? I see GWFs win more paingivers then most DPS classes combined and with ILs much lower. They're hardly a gimped class and can perform amazingly with no skill and mediocre gear at best.
Like I said before, lets wait for the bonding stone nerf, then make some judgements.
Longer battles will let CWs build up stacks of arcane and GWF of destroyer and last longer then the 10 seconds a GF needs to hit Knight's Challenge/Commander's Strike/Anvil of Doom on a Tiamat head or edemo before the DPS-herd runs off to the next 9 second fight.
Fast, burst encounters are inflating GF DPS numbers and denting paingiver-focused egos. I think the fights lasting longer will help correct the curve.
Another interesting thread but the same in many respects to the other "nerf" threads -
A couple people passing info on some mathematical/engineering principles (thank you) and the rest passing info like they are hoping to make a career in Politics or Marketing........
Please feel free to correct me but so far what I've grasped through all the arguing is:
At 4k (BiS), it's pretty much just who hits first Many different factors also effect paingiver (buffs etc), Gwf suffers the least from lack of buffs (due to selfbuffing?)
SW - Relies on Buffs a lot and is generally just a buggy class
Gwf - After stacking up for a few seconds has the highest dps potential
Tr - Just straight dmg...(Falls off during longer battles?)
So with the bonding changes it sounds like Tr should outperform.....
Do hr's and cw's just not come close even when dps speccd??
Please feel free to correct me but so far what I've grasped through all the arguing is:
This is what I can gather.
The best DPS builds are the most bugged & exploitative. And when enough people find out, some move their trans vorp/negation and R12 stones to that build and it becomes the Flavor of the Month class. When the flavor of the month gets enough attention, the others that don't like to play the FoTM game start crying for nerfs in every possible post they can sneak their agenda into. And when the devs finally get around to a quick&dirty nerf, they often do much more damage then good (i.e SW) and maim a class that most players have been playing as intended the whole time.
So the old FoTM either becomes leadship mules, class full of bitter players, or just mothballed in the closet for when the stars align and the class can be a Mod_God again 7 months from now when Cryptic accidentally adds an incredibly powerful bug to the class--and then the the Flavor of the month game repeats.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Its really not magic when HR or SW does a lot of damage.
HR: Careful attack in tiamat or Hawk Eye.
SW: Murderous Flames or Soul Puppet or Fabled Ilyanbruen set.
Basically, mechanics that will be fixed sooner or later, because they are definitely not doing what they are supposed to be doing, (as in, tool tip says one thing and they do another) which is why nobody complains about how "balanced" they are, since its not even a question of them being balanced.
Comments
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
Espacially 2nd boss in eToS is good for every DPS class to hit high. It doesnt compare to your 41 mio hit with your MF but its pretty high. Nice one.
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
Another honest thread turned buff me/nerf them.
This board, and game, are getting very depressing now.
Saw TR outdps me badly (20M ahead of me...), i'm 3.8 GWF.
Same with SW in ETOS once.
Usually i'm first party dps, and from far... But GWF are not definate highest dps, loads of things can alterate how much damages you deal...
So far i'm not convinced that gf is top dps class in game atm... prove me wrong please
What you are afraid the most ? What puts fear in the heart of players and dragons at the same time ?
There is only one thing in this game that can kill you, your spirit and will or that boss.
RNGessus !
All hail the great RNGesuss and his evil minion, the lag.
Just let me roll that class and I'll show you the real damage I can do with lock-boxes and pwards.
1 GF buffing another GF that's buffing themselves in a raid can tip the DPS scale pretty high and make the GF look like a real pain-giver. The same buffs make the GF PvP burst damage look incredible (and it is).
The GF has buffs that with the current power creep, do push the DPS pretty high. Like Knight's Challenge and Into the Frey.
When you have a Tiamat head or demo with tons of debuffs and is only alive for 10 seconds, then tack on 200% extra damage buffs for those 10 seconds, you start seeing Anvil of Doom hits in the millions before other classes can build dmg stacks or even get attacks in.
Why most of us GFs don't see a possible GF paingiver because we're almost always losing skill-slots to buff/agro-skills instead of being buffed and slotting pure DPS skills (Commander's Strike/Anvil, Kneebreaker, Florish, etc.), but when we are buffed by another GF, a DPS GF can compete with DPS classes and those DPS class paingiver-junkies are very upset. My opinion is too much energy is expended on complaining about DPS in a game with 9,000 other broken things but I'm not saying it should stay the way it is, but that it is blown out of proportion for the amount of noise being generated on the topic. Cyptic isn't going to turn off the NWO servers because 3 GFs won paingiver in eDemo this week.
I put the idea out there about fixing ITF back like 9 'Nerf them/buff me' threads ago. Cap it to max 50%, but modify the Tactician-only feet that gives 5% and make it 25%. Add more party tmp HP. Tactician is really just a ITF buff-bot.
Knight's Challange in PvP probably needs a nerf. Or PvE and PvP but make the cooldown like ITF so the cool-down clicks while it's running and nerf its damage. It's a skill that could be nerfed to uselessness easily. It's only good in short fights and the cooldown is awful.
I heard the idea about the Conq and protector capstones getting swapped, so the Conq gets stacks from attacking and the protector gets stacks from getting hit. Not a bad idea. So a GF PvP block-then-pounce burst dmg would be less unless it attacks.
Commander's Strike DPS stats should go to the attackers that proc it and not the GF that just swung once and collects the DPS. With steel blitz, those numbers skyrocket. You can do DPS by sitting still.
There are other RPGs out there that have skills that offer more DPS at the expense of defense. That would be cool to add one to the Conq tree.
best post ive read for a while
we look for balance when a 4k player run ahead and clear 2k content and in that case is the great weapon fighter. BUT what happens if the same gwf is a 2k be at the same item level as the dungeon epic tos lets say. IN that case more possible a control wizard or a rogue to deal more damage because they have the control and the dodge to survive but even then it would be better for them to have a tank and heal to have a safe and fun run.
The solo content is easy, if you are geared, so we have to look at group content. There we have 5, 10 and 25 player instances. Now we have classes with debuffs on enemies, area buffs and group buffs. To claim, that xy is highest dps is theoretical. I got outdpsed by ppl who deal significantly less dmg in dungeon runs, when we did EDemo, bc they were grouped with a ITF GF.
To claim 'highest' dps, you would have to set some rules, like a) solo or grouped, b) with or without buffs/ debuffs. If buffs and debuffs are considered, you have to state the number of players in the instance, bc in a good group a 25 player instance should have more buffs and debuffs, then with 5 players.
Thats why some ppl say class x has highest dps and others can claim the same for another class and they can all be right, bc one class can profit more from buffs and debuffs, then others and deal in specific situations more dmg then the other class.
This discussion ignores the game mechanic. The OP asked for highest DPS in his group. While any class could do decent dmg, his group would profit from a righteous DC more, than from another DD.
I was suggesting that the DPS caused by the skill is redirected to the players that proc it.
I'm not insinuating it's the number #1 source of GF raid DPS but it's something that could even the numbers while still providing group support without inflating GF paingiver numbers, which is really what all this is about.
The answer to your question I already answered it.
"What about the GWF and CW, do they not get buffed as well if they are in the same party?" In a typical 5 man, the GF can't slot pure DPS skills because they have to slot buff/agro skills. If you bring along a 2nd GF, the 3 encounter slots can now be opened up to be pure DPS skills like AoD, KB, and a 3rd like Florish or whatever.
Your picture is a bit offensive.
I started using it (Commander's Strike & SB) on dragon runs in WoD where I want to get it done sooner and there is no paingiver chart.
What I would suggest is lets wait for the bonding stone changes to go live then lets see what's what.
- Screenshots, while not the most accurate data, are a good pointer to what people have discovered not so long ago. The sooner you accept it's truth, the sooner you will realize that GF class has some broken aspects of it if it can outdps the DPS specced GWF whilst hitting like a turtle. That is wrong no matter how you look at it, be it in PvP or PvE oriented content.
- The game's not made so that you can one-on-one against a boss, it's a MMORPG after-all. That doesn't mean that you're highly skilled, it means that you have big damage reduction accompanied with a big damage output, and that generally is a no-no in most RPGs overall.
- "People at my ilv" - Whoever accounts personal damage in terms of the ILVL is doing it wrong. Nothing more to add there.
- Your gameplay with your guildies doesn't prove anything against the fact that GF has the biggest damage output potential despite having slow attack patterns. It is as it is. You can raise the shield, take a lot of damage, and then one-hit enemies that have less than 40% HP. The bigger and better your gear is with this, more damaging the power it will be, just like some people proved not so long ago with actual data.
In the end, a DPS specced GF is far stronger than a DPS specced GWF in Every aspect. That alone is a major flaw in the game.
On the argument "Why so many people don't choose a DPS GF" is rather simple, people expect things to change PvE-wise, and on the topic of PvP GF's are among the most unkillable players, especially with a high tenacity.
(pardon for any grammar mistakes, in a rush)
Thats a Tiamat-Run and this hunter is by far damagedealer Nr. 1, following some better geared 3k+ GWF, warlocks etc.
So in Tiamat Hunter is topdamage, following this random-run, where the group nearly killed all heads in first round.
Btw paingiver displays exactly what Act tells me, near same ammounts of damage.
GWF: needs time to build stacks. Favors longer battles.
TR: Depends on build...but the most successful build does best on fast battles
Example: Im 4k gwf on normal demo going against 4k rogue. He kills all mobs by the time i even have them marked. Hes up by 12 milion after phase 1. Phase 2 and 3 I have time to build stacks and buffs, i close the gap and we end at same damage.
If it were epic demo, he wouldn't out damage me in phase 1 since enemies have more life...so he cant 1 shot them...and i have chance to build stacks
Maybe it's an issue of whom ran first to the mobs ? This usually what determines the 'dps' (paingiver chart) at the BiS levels, one get there first and kills the rest get nothing, it's irrelevant of class, just who finds the mobs first.
GWF hitting like a turtle? A little overly dramatic maybe?
I see GWFs win more paingivers then most DPS classes combined and with ILs much lower.
They're hardly a gimped class and can perform amazingly with no skill and mediocre gear at best.
Like I said before, lets wait for the bonding stone nerf, then make some judgements.
Longer battles will let CWs build up stacks of arcane and GWF of destroyer and last longer then the 10 seconds a GF needs to hit Knight's Challenge/Commander's Strike/Anvil of Doom on a Tiamat head or edemo before the DPS-herd runs off to the next 9 second fight.
Fast, burst encounters are inflating GF DPS numbers and denting paingiver-focused egos. I think the fights lasting longer will help correct the curve.
Second or dummy acct?
A couple people passing info on some mathematical/engineering principles (thank you) and the rest passing info like they are hoping to make a career in Politics or Marketing........
Popcorn bag is empty though - Cya "_
At 4k (BiS), it's pretty much just who hits first
Many different factors also effect paingiver (buffs etc), Gwf suffers the least from lack of buffs (due to selfbuffing?)
SW - Relies on Buffs a lot and is generally just a buggy class
Gwf - After stacking up for a few seconds has the highest dps potential
Tr - Just straight dmg...(Falls off during longer battles?)
So with the bonding changes it sounds like Tr should outperform.....
Do hr's and cw's just not come close even when dps speccd??
'Drizzt' on the Zerg_Impact channel can kick some butt.
I've been told dread works great for their builds because of using mostly encounters. This is what I can gather.
The best DPS builds are the most bugged & exploitative. And when enough people find out, some move their trans vorp/negation and R12 stones to that build and it becomes the Flavor of the Month class. When the flavor of the month gets enough attention, the others that don't like to play the FoTM game start crying for nerfs in every possible post they can sneak their agenda into.
And when the devs finally get around to a quick&dirty nerf, they often do much more damage then good (i.e SW) and maim a class that most players have been playing as intended the whole time.
So the old FoTM either becomes leadship mules, class full of bitter players, or just mothballed in the closet for when the stars align and the class can be a Mod_God again 7 months from now when Cryptic accidentally adds an incredibly powerful bug to the class--and then the the Flavor of the month game repeats.
HR: Careful attack in tiamat or Hawk Eye.
SW: Murderous Flames or Soul Puppet or Fabled Ilyanbruen set.
Basically, mechanics that will be fixed sooner or later, because they are definitely not doing what they are supposed to be doing, (as in, tool tip says one thing and they do another) which is why nobody complains about how "balanced" they are, since its not even a question of them being balanced.