4k players will never ask for bubble. Why should they? A GF is 100 times more helpfull to clear dungeons fast and easy. It would make no sense, if you know any 4k player and this players needs a bubbledin ^^
Thats my point... Even at 3k you don't really need the bubble, but the nerf will shxt on the ppl that look for group in PE, and are around 2k IL, which are most of this game's players. The Protector pally and the Virtuous cleric didn't make the dungeons trivial, it was Cryptyc with the awful and TRIVIAL rewards, also the millions of surplus equipment and AD being asked on a daily basis (mod 7) that makes us run the same dungeons a 1000 times just looking for some shxtty purple rings and some salvage.
about the 5 5k gwf - figure of speach for "they finally fixed the clock so phases take less time but they did not acount for that in the rewards section so it is balanced for the now removed bugged clock" i guess.
Yea 3k players do not need bubble and they prefer a GF over a OP, that is my problem, now 2k players will do that too couse of lack of bubble or any GF-like partyboost
Post edited by wildfirede on
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
In my opinion the Daily of OP Divine Protector could be on this way. I think it's the best change to balance the pve and pvp content.
a) Reduction 50% of damage and Duration 10 secs b) Can choose one or two allies only to protect and this targets marked redirect 80% of the damage to yourself
I think this nerf will fix the game me and a guildy proved gf's healing pallys are irrelevant we used player skill and communication duoing a dg with only a dps cleric and a tr we honestly ended up doing it quicker then what we can do it with 5 randoms this game doesn't take skill anymore and hasn't since mod 5. this game is dieing theirs no communication once so ever skill lvl req=0 80% or higher of players could not do pve without a pally or tank. the biggest problem is tho after this nerf players are more then likely going to quit flat line is npcs hit way to hard /npc should never be able to crit ever that's a terrible idea on dev part. half the damage everything in every dung does so a cleric can heal people right now a dc without a gf or a pally with a bubble is useless how many clerics can solo keep everyone alive I think your only looking at base problems you have so much more to look at your to blind to see it.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited April 2016
i dont think so. i am regularly doing elol on my cleric alt (2500IL with basic things) and it heals a lot. players just need to relearn moving a bit to avoid one-shotting. i dont even have GOH, paladins sometimes complain they cant permabubble, but then adapt with no problems. otherwise certain individuals should be "adjusted", see you Orcus, still trying to find how to handle him as iron warrior conqueror....
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
i dont think so. i am regularly doing elol on my cleric alt (2500IL with basic things) and it heals a lot. players just need to relearn moving a bit to avoid one-shotting. i dont even have GOH, paladins sometimes complain they cant permabubble, but then adapt with no problems. otherwise certain individuals should be "adjusted", see you Orcus, still trying to find how to handle him as iron warrior conqueror....
Scorpions are an easy situation to get around. Unlike the boss in eToS where you gotta be aware of spawning spitters all the time or they will snipe down your DPS. You can dodge but it'll eventually not help you from being pounced in the back by a blademaster and shot by a spitter. Same goes for eCC.
I picked up 2 of the EE boons (which basically mitigated the loss of VIP HP from Live). Ran with a DC (DO Virt/Right) and a 3.7k Trapper HR (who killed stuff for us )
With my current spec (in the OP section of the forum) at 2964 iL running Shield of Faith the three of us had no problems clearing eToS and the DC and I both concluded that our current build would not need to change after these changes go live.
Divine Protector is definitely a "OMG we need a save now" power. Shield of Faith worked fine in its place and Heroism is fine for running about if there is a lot of CC.
Guess that makes me happy with things, from where I stand its now about fixing:
Relentless Avenger & Bane so they cannot target allies for Protectors as a priority.
Binding Oath so it creates the agro its tooltip says it does.
Upping the damage on Divine Touch so that it is worth putting some points in (and fixing its text so that it reflects its mechanics for its shield).
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
So you survived and a 3.7k class not affected for the Lostmauth changes carry you? Good to hear...
How dare we bring 1 dps along to cover for up to 3 of them, us utter cheats!
You missed the point, it would be nice if you do it with 2k DPS though. Like I said before, at 3k you don't need the bubble, and most of the times don't even need a healer.
So you survived and a 3.7k class not affected for the Lostmauth changes carry you? Good to hear...
How dare we bring 1 dps along to cover for up to 3 of them, us utter cheats!
You missed the point, it would be nice if you do it with 2k DPS though. Like I said before, at 3k you don't need the bubble, and most of the times don't even need a healer.
Even more 3k and up not likely join a queue to carry strangers
Well, after a LOT of testing everything related to the DC and OP-OoP personally (my views on the LM set are already clear), here are my overall findings.
It's well known I play every Class/every Paragon Path, some not as a main sure but I have full experience with them and I know of the dozens upon dozens of problems that exist with each of them.
DC: The GoH
While I dislike it and don't use it, I don't deny its utility and the change to it is indeed sound. The prior 5% p/s was ridiculous, even with the restrictions of power cooldowns. 5% over 5s, even time stackable is much more in-line as a Feat. and as a personal thing, I hop that this will see Haste Clerics actually making use of FF or BtS for their impressive buff/debuff effects.
GoH should however be moved from a Tier 3 feat to a Tier 4 or 5. This isn't about discussing the shortcomings of Feat Paths so hold your outrage and complaints.
OP: I'm going to split this in 2, Divine Protector and everything else.
First everything else.
- The change to Heroism is so clearly based on a PvP standpoint that it amazes me that PW actually bothered, they haven't shown any interest in PvP at all besides allowing 10^10 problems to proliferate unchecked in it. The last time I saw the power used in PvE Lv60+ (where face it, is the only time things start to matter) was... ummmm... Never. It simply isn't a PvE power, I know it probably is supposed to be but it simply isn't. DJ, SoF, DP and to a lesser extent LoH and HF are the Dailies that are used in PvE. We all know this and as this is about PvE the change is fine as is because who cares.
Please take your PvP complaints regarding it elsewhere.
- Shield of Faith. Basically, this is for a OoD OP, not a OoP except prior to unlocking DP. So I will speak about it and its changes from a OoD perspective. I can still 100% uptime it with the change, no problem. I removed Echoes while testing and my Recovery is around 2k. So the change is IMO, not a problem.
What I would like to speak about it is its activation size and target number as well as stacking properties. I believe its current range is 150 feet, this is fine and a good activation range for the power. As for target group size, I feel that it should be set to 10 max. with priority given to group members and self. As for stacking properties, make it none. 12 seconds of 30% DR increase is a good amount.
- Echoes of Light. I'll keep it simple; the change is fine. The difference with and without is so negligible and the increase in proc. chance so good that the overall CD difference will disappear very quickly. Those complaining make me feel as if no-one ever uses Aura of Wisdom. Which ofc. is just ridiculous, right?
All other changes are fine also.
Now, for Divine Protector.
I bet that you expected this to be long and exposition filled but honestly, it's a very cut and dry situation.
I agree that the current duration is far too long, however 6 seconds is also too short a duration, we seek balance don't we? So ofc. a compromise would be the ideal solution.
With the change to 50% DR, a 10 Second duration at Max Rank is what is optimum. It preserves the viability of the skill without allowing it to be an infinite invincibility button, a severe increase in Recovery is required to even come close to a Perma-build and I tested a few options and I can say that in doing so... well to put it politely, the OP becomes a burden in every other way. Oh and the Flail Snail becomes a 100% requirement to even attempt the build.
Now two last things I wanted to address: A question to all those who existed pre-OP era and an personal view on 2 OP abilities that I's appreciate the Dev. considering.
First the latter.
Relentless Avenger: A lot of people talk about this and personally, it's not something I've ever had an issue with outside of it's use while I'm using TT as a SW but when I first saw the power I envisioned that as a Protector OP instead of it causing Knockback, it should have the opposite effect; pull enemies toward the origin point and thusly, the OP itself.
You should be able to see yourself the various useful applications it would have in synergy with other classes.
Divine Touch: This has the total effect of hitting a titanium door with a feather and that's just sad honestly. However another of the OP's powers offers a solution that could make it a skill worthy of a support class while adding slightly to the DPS capability during boss fights.
Binding Oath is a Defensive damage-burst skill, why not make Divine Touch an Offensive one?
Here is a potential rework of the skill, thought about over a period of time with considerations toward power creep and remaining unbroken due to it.
Divine Touch: Place a divine glyph upon the target that absorbs 10% of the damage inflicted upon the target from all sources while active. When the glyph expires it detonates, dealing the accumulated damage to the target. Can only affect a single target at a time. No additional effects.
Initial time is 2.5s with increase of 2.5s per level up to 10s duration. Cooldown is 12 seconds and doesn't begin until the effect ends or the target is dead.
Lastly a question to ponder for all those who predate the OP-era, particularly those that are strongly against the changes:
If OPs and the GoH came to us with the changes above as default, do you really think we'd be having this argument now?
TL;DR
This is a Preview Shard forum, if you're not here to read why are you here?
DC: The GoH While I dislike it and don't use it, I don't deny its utility and the change to it is indeed sound. The prior 5% p/s was ridiculous, even with the restrictions of power cooldowns. 5% over 5s, even time stackable is much more in-line as a Feat. and as a personal thing, I hop that this will see Haste Clerics actually making use of FF or BtS for their impressive buff/debuff effects.
GoH should however be moved from a Tier 3 feat to a Tier 4 or 5. This isn't about discussing the shortcomings of Feat Paths so hold your outrage and complaints.
I can talk about DC only and I agree with you. Moving GoH from a Tier 3 feat to a Tier 4 is a good option imo. I want to add that GoH is no more a stats-indipendent feat. It's still good but you've to focus the DC build on the % AP gain stats to get the max out of it. Indeed as a haste cleric with a high AP gain, this allows me to have BtS slotted permanently in my rotations (and I started doing it long time ago). Concerning the virtuous path, I do believe that the nerf had an overall negative impact on it. Too many healing feats and that's why I suggest to rework it to improve the mitigation feats. In the end, the dc meta could be something like: - mitigation -> virtuous - healing -> faithful - buff/debuff -> righteous
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Relentless Avenger: A lot of people talk about this and personally, it's not something I've ever had an issue with outside of it's use while I'm using TT as a SW but when I first saw the power I envisioned that as a Protector OP instead of it causing Knockback, it should have the opposite effect; pull enemies toward the origin point and thusly, the OP itself
+1 on that sorry cant quote from mobile
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
Nerf herorism is much more aim for pvp, reduce to 10 sec is try to prevent u spam it. Double hp is just bouns effect, mainly you want its cc immune >:)
Beat way to nerf a bubble is to ask legitimate bubbles. I run a permabubble. To nerf him you don't drop bubble duration, you drop it's mitigation. They still take 20% from allies, but so does the ally, If bubble is targeted directly they get no mitigation benefit from its use.
Basically I'm in a party with 4 squishy dps. I keep my bubble up constantly. Something hits one of the dps for 100k. Pally takes 20k, dps takes 20k. Something hits pally for 100k. Pally takes 100k. An are hits everyone for 100k. Each dps takes 100k. Pally takes 180k (his hundred, plus 20 from each dps).
The glaring issue with pallys is threat generation. Everything else can be handled, but threat gen is the core point of a tank - not DR.
Just adjust Aura of Radiance. Give it a fixed amount of damage (say the equivalent of 3 points currently) but have it fire faster with more points: 1 point - every 4 secs 2 points - every 3 secs 3 points - every 2 secs etc
Firing every second (at 4 points) should create enough threat to hold aggro.
I have 3 points there atm and I've been experimenting with it and whilst it does generate threat, it doesn't really hold the aggro successfully with decent dps in the team. I see them running my way then turn back and go for the GWF or HR.
But honestly, what I'd really like to see is the removal of the bubble altogether. Replace it with a daily that increases Pally DR by 20% but forces ALL enemies within 30' to attack the pally!
A serious, hard taunt daily that gives the pally a bit of a DR increase - now that is a real tank daily and would be v. useful for a team.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
The Pally like this is almost useless. Hes not a tank anymore, his dmg is weak, his healing is weaker than a DC so what is he good for now? Cryptic nerfing another thing about NW. Every update you fix very little and make things a lot worse. Uninviting for new players. Too bad since it`s a decent game. But you`re nerfing things too much. Reducing is ok but making things useless...
Comments
Yea 3k players do not need bubble and they prefer a GF over a OP, that is my problem, now 2k players will do that too couse of lack of bubble or any GF-like partyboost
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
a) Reduction 50% of damage and Duration 10 secs
b) Can choose one or two allies only to protect and this targets marked redirect 80% of the damage to yourself
I picked up 2 of the EE boons (which basically mitigated the loss of VIP HP from Live).
Ran with a DC (DO Virt/Right) and a 3.7k Trapper HR (who killed stuff for us
With my current spec (in the OP section of the forum) at 2964 iL running Shield of Faith the three of us had no problems clearing eToS and the DC and I both concluded that our current build would not need to change after these changes go live.
Divine Protector is definitely a "OMG we need a save now" power. Shield of Faith worked fine in its place and Heroism is fine for running about if there is a lot of CC.
Guess that makes me happy with things, from where I stand its now about fixing:
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Reduce activation time
of some DC spells, i hate when encounters or at-wills cancel each otherIt's well known I play every Class/every Paragon Path, some not as a main sure but I have full experience with them and I know of the dozens upon dozens of problems that exist with each of them.
DC:
The GoH
While I dislike it and don't use it, I don't deny its utility and the change to it is indeed sound. The prior 5% p/s was ridiculous, even with the restrictions of power cooldowns. 5% over 5s, even time stackable is much more in-line as a Feat. and as a personal thing, I hop that this will see Haste Clerics actually making use of FF or BtS for their impressive buff/debuff effects.
GoH should however be moved from a Tier 3 feat to a Tier 4 or 5. This isn't about discussing the shortcomings of Feat Paths so hold your outrage and complaints.
OP:
I'm going to split this in 2, Divine Protector and everything else.
First everything else.
- The change to Heroism is so clearly based on a PvP standpoint that it amazes me that PW actually bothered, they haven't shown any interest in PvP at all besides allowing 10^10 problems to proliferate unchecked in it. The last time I saw the power used in PvE Lv60+ (where face it, is the only time things start to matter) was... ummmm... Never. It simply isn't a PvE power, I know it probably is supposed to be but it simply isn't. DJ, SoF, DP and to a lesser extent LoH and HF are the Dailies that are used in PvE. We all know this and as this is about PvE the change is fine as is because who cares.
Please take your PvP complaints regarding it elsewhere.
- Shield of Faith. Basically, this is for a OoD OP, not a OoP except prior to unlocking DP. So I will speak about it and its changes from a OoD perspective. I can still 100% uptime it with the change, no problem. I removed Echoes while testing and my Recovery is around 2k. So the change is IMO, not a problem.
What I would like to speak about it is its activation size and target number as well as stacking properties.
I believe its current range is 150 feet, this is fine and a good activation range for the power.
As for target group size, I feel that it should be set to 10 max. with priority given to group members and self.
As for stacking properties, make it none. 12 seconds of 30% DR increase is a good amount.
- Echoes of Light. I'll keep it simple; the change is fine. The difference with and without is so negligible and the increase in proc. chance so good that the overall CD difference will disappear very quickly. Those complaining make me feel as if no-one ever uses Aura of Wisdom. Which ofc. is just ridiculous, right?
All other changes are fine also.
Now, for Divine Protector.
I bet that you expected this to be long and exposition filled but honestly, it's a very cut and dry situation.
I agree that the current duration is far too long, however 6 seconds is also too short a duration, we seek balance don't we?
So ofc. a compromise would be the ideal solution.
With the change to 50% DR, a 10 Second duration at Max Rank is what is optimum. It preserves the viability of the skill without allowing it to be an infinite invincibility button, a severe increase in Recovery is required to even come close to a Perma-build and I tested a few options and I can say that in doing so... well to put it politely, the OP becomes a burden in every other way. Oh and the Flail Snail becomes a 100% requirement to even attempt the build.
Now two last things I wanted to address: A question to all those who existed pre-OP era and an personal view on 2 OP abilities that I's appreciate the Dev. considering.
First the latter.
Relentless Avenger: A lot of people talk about this and personally, it's not something I've ever had an issue with outside of it's use while I'm using TT as a SW but when I first saw the power I envisioned that as a Protector OP instead of it causing Knockback, it should have the opposite effect; pull enemies toward the origin point and thusly, the OP itself.
You should be able to see yourself the various useful applications it would have in synergy with other classes.
Divine Touch: This has the total effect of hitting a titanium door with a feather and that's just sad honestly. However another of the OP's powers offers a solution that could make it a skill worthy of a support class while adding slightly to the DPS capability during boss fights.
Binding Oath is a Defensive damage-burst skill, why not make Divine Touch an Offensive one?
Here is a potential rework of the skill, thought about over a period of time with considerations toward power creep and remaining unbroken due to it.
Divine Touch:
Place a divine glyph upon the target that absorbs 10% of the damage inflicted upon the target from all sources while active. When the glyph expires it detonates, dealing the accumulated damage to the target. Can only affect a single target at a time. No additional effects.
Initial time is 2.5s with increase of 2.5s per level up to 10s duration.
Cooldown is 12 seconds and doesn't begin until the effect ends or the target is dead.
Lastly a question to ponder for all those who predate the OP-era, particularly those that are strongly against the changes:
If OPs and the GoH came to us with the changes above as default, do you really think we'd be having this argument now?
TL;DR
This is a Preview Shard forum, if you're not here to read why are you here?
Moving GoH from a Tier 3 feat to a Tier 4 is a good option imo.
I want to add that GoH is no more a stats-indipendent feat. It's still good but you've to focus the DC build on the % AP gain stats to get the max out of it.
Indeed as a haste cleric with a high AP gain, this allows me to have BtS slotted permanently in my rotations (and I started doing it long time ago).
Concerning the virtuous path, I do believe that the nerf had an overall negative impact on it. Too many healing feats and that's why I suggest to rework it to improve the mitigation feats. In the end, the dc meta could be something like:
- mitigation -> virtuous
- healing -> faithful
- buff/debuff -> righteous
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
+1 on that sorry cant quote from mobile
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
Basically I'm in a party with 4 squishy dps. I keep my bubble up constantly. Something hits one of the dps for 100k. Pally takes 20k, dps takes 20k. Something hits pally for 100k. Pally takes 100k. An are hits everyone for 100k. Each dps takes 100k. Pally takes 180k (his hundred, plus 20 from each dps).
Tada, for from invincible. *mic drop*
Just adjust Aura of Radiance. Give it a fixed amount of damage (say the equivalent of 3 points currently) but have it fire faster with more points:
1 point - every 4 secs
2 points - every 3 secs
3 points - every 2 secs
etc
Firing every second (at 4 points) should create enough threat to hold aggro.
I have 3 points there atm and I've been experimenting with it and whilst it does generate threat, it doesn't really hold the aggro successfully with decent dps in the team. I see them running my way then turn back and go for the GWF or HR.
But honestly, what I'd really like to see is the removal of the bubble altogether. Replace it with a daily that increases Pally DR by 20% but forces ALL enemies within 30' to attack the pally!
A serious, hard taunt daily that gives the pally a bit of a DR increase - now that is a real tank daily and would be v. useful for a team.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox