do not give me the lie that a Conq can't tank as good as the other paths.
You're believing what you want to. The protector tree gives amazing tank buffs, and so does the TACT. The Conq tree gives none, nadda, zero tanking buffs/percs,etc. Not even any party buffs. Nothing for survivability. They are class cannons. All the ACT logs are always in areas where the GF doesn't even need to pretend to be a tank.
They even have Bull Charge, which is a prone. All these nerfs to GWF survivability for what? We just lost our Temp HP that was our main survival tool. It is wrong, GWFs should get all the Mod 4 nerfs reversed, the Temp HP nerf reversed as well as Takedown back as a prone if it is okay now for a tank to be DPS.
When I do any content with other high level players, the GWF is still the majority, so they can't be that broke... In my opinion, they are still the best, especially with a warlock with perfect +bondings.
You hollering at the top of your lunges to nerf a class that's had it bad for a long time out of jealousy won't get your GWF God-status back. Sorry.
In my opinion, GWF's determination gain is crazy-fast now because of power creep. With high crit, you keep unstoppable going, so you're still godly. I don't see GWF's has having it awful. There is just so many of you, you have a very large voice on these boards to complain about tiny changes.
Scrub GF with negation and feytouched and a higher IL then 90/95% of the other players. Right. A perfect GF combo in PvP in a PvP video. About as balanced account as Fox News right there.
DPS for any class right now with gears good as your 'scrub' (or better) is getting out of control. The SH buffs are over the top. 4/6k pet buffs. Mount bonuses. I think bonding stones really need to be fixed. The cool-down reset bug is a borderline exploit.
Is the GF OP in PvP if played right? Kind of yeah, and they have been. When have they not been popular? I don't have a problem if the % of ITF is changed in PvP vs PvE. Yeah, self-buffing in PvP for 100% damage is kind of busted. But if you drop it to like 50% in PvE, most will stop using it and the GF will be less welcomed to party play again.
The GF class didn't wake up one day and just be overpowered. The power creep effected it like the rest. Because the notion that all GF's have to be a tank persistence for a large ammount of non GF players, there is now shock and outcry the DPS explosion of mod8/9 has hit this class as well.
Conq GF are not tanks. Sure they can block, but can they are agro and knights valor in Castle Never? Can they tank in Eedemo with knights valor without a DC or healer? You can't life steal demo.
The DPS for GFs that aren't min-maxed to be ACT heros helps keeps agro.
We're going around and around in circles here, you get that right?
Did some more damage tests together with @thefabricant (thanks for being my target dummy!).
I am too lazy to upload the videos but will post raw numbers - my damage multiplier conditions were the same as in the video with the GWF.
CW with 9k defense and 0 Tenacity:
1. 370k crit Bullcharge
2. 270k non-crit Bullcharge
3. CW with shield on TAB: 100k Bullcharge + fire wheel damage.
I don't know how anyone can call this balanced.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anyone seeing this,i mean raw numbers ,will assume that it is just single encounters hit,and not buffed.
that is your point and the CW's point and target anyway.
So....can you please post that video.
Cause i am 100% certain you used knight's challenge before that.And buffed yourself to max.
if you were in a court ,this would be called "falsified data by fully malevolent intent" and you would lose case
So...a video please.With these numbers please.Not another.;)
----------------------------
Common.....we all waiting!!!!! not that you or Sharp would lie in order to pass and prove your point.i would never accuse you for that
Video please....
0
arandompandaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 107Arc User
edited May 2016
GF will likely be nerfed quicker than it took for the devs to nerf Bubbledins. In any case once one of the 3 remaining classes is released (druid, bard, monk) GFs day in the sun - if it's still going - will end. Devs always make newest class the dps kings to incentivize the player base to spend money gearing up the new kid on the block.
Example: Taking my D&D book off the shelf I can see how 4K GWF and 4K TRs (current dps kings) will come to a screeching halt when a 2.5K-3K Monk class dps-er shows up. Even in table-top games I've seen long threads on other sites complaining Monks can easily take down mobs 2-3 times their own level (2 hits per round [Flurry of Blows] vs other classes 1 is just one example).
And table-top monks have the ability to self-heal like a DC and OP [Wholeness of Body at lvl 6] AND have high Deflect like TRs AND get Stunning Strikes (a TR daze type of attack at level 5) and at level 18 gain the TR ability to go invisible (Empty Body). If they choose the Way of Four Elements tree they can cast Chi element attacks that are basically CW attacks. Spending Chi (Ki is how Japanese pronounce Chi since they can't easily make the 'ch' sound) will likely be their tab-ability.
So monks will have high deflect, self-heal and invisibility - all with the ability to dish out double damage from whatever any other class can dish out within the same time span and one variation will give their chi-based attacks CW-like Elemental and/or CC abilities [examples - spend Chi to cast Hold or Stoneskin or Cone of Cold] too. I'm shaking my head in wonder at just how the Devs are gonna pull it off to not create the next round of "Nerf this class NOW!" calls once Monk class rolls out - the hollering from GWF, TRs and CWs will be especially high. Looking at Cryptic's history monks may well go 2-3 mods before being dethroned.
Just like people are calling for nerfs right now for GFs and did so earlier for GWFs and CWs. There are posters on the CW class forums whom are still angry at the "balancing" done to what they feel is a Striker class right up there with GWFs (they have a point I admit - CC is a fluff feature these days - just like tanking is - just like healing is).
The point of my post is to show that the idea that this MMO will ever achieve some kind of 'class parity' between all these classes (which is the philosophy that drives the 'nerf-others-buff me' meta) is a chimera. GF won't last long as dps kings even if they are now. Cryptic is constantly asked to do something they seem unable to do based upon the budget allocated and time allotted between WotC table-top product releases they're contractually obligated to synergize with.
Post edited by arandompanda on
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Closed while I clean up the bickering and ego-contests.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Comments
The Conq tree gives none, nadda, zero tanking buffs/percs,etc. Not even any party buffs. Nothing for survivability.
They are class cannons. All the ACT logs are always in areas where the GF doesn't even need to pretend to be a tank. When I do any content with other high level players, the GWF is still the majority, so they can't be that broke...
In my opinion, they are still the best, especially with a warlock with perfect +bondings.
You hollering at the top of your lunges to nerf a class that's had it bad for a long time out of jealousy won't get your GWF God-status back. Sorry.
In my opinion, GWF's determination gain is crazy-fast now because of power creep. With high crit, you keep unstoppable going, so you're still godly. I don't see GWF's has having it awful. There is just so many of you, you have a very large voice on these boards to complain about tiny changes.
A perfect GF combo in PvP in a PvP video. About as balanced account as Fox News right there.
DPS for any class right now with gears good as your 'scrub' (or better) is getting out of control.
The SH buffs are over the top. 4/6k pet buffs. Mount bonuses. I think bonding stones really need to be fixed.
The cool-down reset bug is a borderline exploit.
Is the GF OP in PvP if played right? Kind of yeah, and they have been. When have they not been popular?
I don't have a problem if the % of ITF is changed in PvP vs PvE. Yeah, self-buffing in PvP for 100% damage is kind of busted.
But if you drop it to like 50% in PvE, most will stop using it and the GF will be less welcomed to party play again.
The GF class didn't wake up one day and just be overpowered. The power creep effected it like the rest. Because the notion that all GF's have to be a tank persistence for a large ammount of non GF players, there is now shock and outcry the DPS explosion of mod8/9 has hit this class as well.
Conq GF are not tanks. Sure they can block, but can they are agro and knights valor in Castle Never?
Can they tank in Eedemo with knights valor without a DC or healer? You can't life steal demo.
The DPS for GFs that aren't min-maxed to be ACT heros helps keeps agro.
We're going around and around in circles here, you get that right?
Anyone seeing this,i mean raw numbers ,will assume that it is just single encounters hit,and not buffed.
that is your point and the CW's point and target anyway.
So....can you please post that video.
Cause i am 100% certain you used knight's challenge before that.And buffed yourself to max.
if you were in a court ,this would be called "falsified data by fully malevolent intent" and you would lose case
So...a video please.With these numbers please.Not another.;)
----------------------------
Common.....we all waiting!!!!!
not that you or Sharp would lie in order to pass and prove your point.i would never accuse you for that
Video please....
Example: Taking my D&D book off the shelf I can see how 4K GWF and 4K TRs (current dps kings) will come to a screeching halt when a 2.5K-3K Monk class dps-er shows up. Even in table-top games I've seen long threads on other sites complaining Monks can easily take down mobs 2-3 times their own level (2 hits per round [Flurry of Blows] vs other classes 1 is just one example).
And table-top monks have the ability to self-heal like a DC and OP [Wholeness of Body at lvl 6] AND have high Deflect like TRs AND get Stunning Strikes (a TR daze type of attack at level 5) and at level 18 gain the TR ability to go invisible (Empty Body). If they choose the Way of Four Elements tree they can cast Chi element attacks that are basically CW attacks. Spending Chi (Ki is how Japanese pronounce Chi since they can't easily make the 'ch' sound) will likely be their tab-ability.
So monks will have high deflect, self-heal and invisibility - all with the ability to dish out double damage from whatever any other class can dish out within the same time span and one variation will give their chi-based attacks CW-like Elemental and/or CC abilities [examples - spend Chi to cast Hold or Stoneskin or Cone of Cold] too. I'm shaking my head in wonder at just how the Devs are gonna pull it off to not create the next round of "Nerf this class NOW!" calls once Monk class rolls out - the hollering from GWF, TRs and CWs will be especially high. Looking at Cryptic's history monks may well go 2-3 mods before being dethroned.
Just like people are calling for nerfs right now for GFs and did so earlier for GWFs and CWs. There are posters on the CW class forums whom are still angry at the "balancing" done to what they feel is a Striker class right up there with GWFs (they have a point I admit - CC is a fluff feature these days - just like tanking is - just like healing is).
The point of my post is to show that the idea that this MMO will ever achieve some kind of 'class parity' between all these classes (which is the philosophy that drives the 'nerf-others-buff me' meta) is a chimera. GF won't last long as dps kings even if they are now. Cryptic is constantly asked to do something they seem unable to do based upon the budget allocated and time allotted between WotC table-top product releases they're contractually obligated to synergize with.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!