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Lostmauth's Vengeance changes

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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    at least now my gwf with imperial set can have a fair competition vs other gwf with lol set i am so happy i didnt invest for my gwf to this broken set.
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  • nejaa#9803 nejaa Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    EVen though I understand this was too over powered this is not good at all. The end game is far from being too easy. Don't use the exploiters guilds guide your changes. People with BiS everywhere shouldn't have to worry much about the end game since they have maxed out everything.

    Your way of handling things by making the game harder for people with full BiS builds is completely killing the game for all the other players. I'm a GWF at almost 2.5kIL and even if it's not the best and I'm not fully geared yet certain part of the game that should be decently easy to go through are insanely hard even in group. Those nerfs without giving other ways to keep up with the difficulty is going to induce a massive departure of players. Well done, you just killed you game even more.

    You should start to stop pretend that most of the game is doable solo (which one the main reason I started to play, because I could be solo most of the time and social the rest). As it's going it's about to stop being possible soon.
  • pawlo97pawlo97 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    If LM after fix is dealing really low dmg, it will be nonsense. Maybe just change set bonus to something like fire from Wheel of Elements? In arti it's 30% additional damage with every hit. In LM it can be 10%-15% from your crits. Then it won't be weak like another sets and not overpowered too.
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  • thameng11thameng11 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2 Arc User
    Imo lostmauth nerf is ok, but let it crit? Useless for SW now...
  • wizardpiffy#2999 wizardpiffy Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Anybody got any damage charts to see how bad this affects the control wizard we have had enough game breaking nerfs hope this doesn't put us in the usless category
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  • zyriss87zyriss87 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    This really sucks. I really don't want to have to level up another artifact set when I have not even finished leveling up this one.
  • zyriss87zyriss87 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I also just wanted to add that this is really going to screw over great weapon fighters. It looks like our so called "year" got cut short. How about making the new content harder rather than the same difficulty or easier. Then it would make more sense to buff up other classes and artifact sets without having to redesign the entire game. Honestly when I play a game I think I speak for all when I say that it is much more enjoyable to advance your character rather than have to rebuild it.
  • masterogamasteroga Member Posts: 474 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    I'm just worried damage only classes (GWF, Scourge Warlock) will end up doing roughly the same damage as Hunter Rangers because of this change. Who's going to want a GWF if a Ranger can do roughly the same damage AND control mobs with roots?

    EDIT: I'm 100% certain it will make CW's very undesirable too. They are going to bring literally nothing to the table other than Chaos Magic from renegade tree..nothing else. No one cares if you can control the weak pointless mobs, if you bring virtually no damage to the table the entire dungeon. Hunter rangers can control about as well, and still deal damage.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    zyriss87 said:

    I also just wanted to add that this is really going to screw over great weapon fighters.

    It's really not, and people who play GWFs should can the hysterics.

    I have a GWF alt that I have never played seriously (I also have a GWF I play a lot, so I do have some clue what I'm doing). Equipment is a mix of guild gear and elemental, so a little bit better than random-drop blues, but not significant. Level 70 epic neck from Neverember and Mulhorand weapon. Blue DC/TR/CW sigils ranked up using character-bound stones from invoking, and artifact sword knot is at purple from the same. Inscribed undies. Dragonborn pack artifact and ring. Weapon and armor enchants from the Hero of the North pack (low-powered junk, but account-unlocked) and azures in his utility slots. The items from packs are really nice for equipping alts (all the more when starting out), but they're not massively powerful and don't typically have a place in BiS setups. Just to say, this character is better off than one on an account with nothing, but he's got none of the nice toys and likely never will. Item level is probably under 2k; I don't really pay attention to it.

    Last night, I took him to IWD for the first time. Keep in mind, he has no boons from other campaigns. He doesn't even have a bag from Neverdeath. I made him to test something I needed a level 10 GWF for, and kept the character rather than delete.

    He killed bears, he killed barbarians, he killed yetis, and he killed demons for his heroic encounter. I was careful to not pick a fight with any bugged too-strong mobs. It was fine. Not nearly as quick as when playing the 3k GWF, but totally doable and never a near-death moment.

    Summoned companion is a Squire with no gear or runes at all. He does come with a debuff that makes him a better option than a free healer, but the main thing is that I wasn't relying on binding procs to make up for lack of other equipment.

    There is nothing in the LM fix that is going to make GWFs unplayable, because you can successfully play a GWF without having LM at all.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    morenthar said:

    desisti said:



    I'm speaking this as a CW with bloody LM set and i will not refine it into something else no mater what. I wasted enough RP into this sh*t and return of 80% during 2x refinement is RIPOFF. And, face it, they won't give us exchange "orange LM for orange something" because we would like it. They will benefit from this (I still think that some of those gold/AD/item sellers are working for them).

    Keep using LM and hope for the best!

    Look, this Lostmauth fiasco isn't a bed of roses. By letting it go for so long, with no comment on the situation, Cryptic essentially let a broken set become a part of the meta. This is why I originally was against the fix. I don't like to see people pigeonholed into one direction, because if they don't, they won't have a competitive build.

    That being said, the fix affects everyone and it is a FIX. It is obviously for the better of the game, which is why common sense had me changing my mind real quick. The temporary inconvenience to players is worth it for the long term health of the game. Also, I would bet my bottom dollar that a 2x RP event will be popping up in the not too distant future. The amount of RP it takes to get an artifact up to purple level is relatively small. You then drop your old artifact in and you have your new legendary.

    Should players get more compensation like a 3x RP event? Sure. I don't think they will go quite that far though. But the 2x will get it done. In the meantime, with your Lostmauth set, you'll live.
    To all you ppl speaking of a fix instead of a nerf. Do you remember, that they 'fixed' it before. It procced from dot dmg. It was to much. They adjusted it. Seriously, how many adjustements or fixes can they do, before we are allowed to call it a nerf.

    They release untested OP HAMSTER. Players tell them, that things are broken OP, they release it anyway. You can wait for a few month, they 'fix' it. Now at last, if they released it, reevaluated it and audjusted it after month of 'testing' by us, they SHOULD be able to make an adjustment and stick to it.

    Forget this vanilla talk, this verbal white washing of failures and failed releases. I would be lauhing, if I did not know, that some of you are serious, when you call me an exploiter for running leadership, for using HP or HV set etc.

    CMs gave advice for LS armies, they were used for YEARS, the company policy changes and suddenly ppl got banned as 'exloiters'.

    HV set is BIS for CWs since BETA (present tense used intentional), but now I am a 'bug user'?

    LM set was released and 'fixed' after a few month. AFTER the fix I bought it refined it and used it. NOW I am supposed to say halleluja and thank you for this 'fix'.

    It is their game. They can do what they want. Players can react to their action, by leaving the game, most of them did. Have the decency to allow me to call things as they are. If it looks like a HAMSTER and smells like a HAMSTER, it most likely is a HAMSTER. Dont try to sell it to me as a candy bar. This is insulting.

    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    morenthar said:

    @ashkrik23 @asterotg

    If you want to argue semantics or the quality of the initial fix, you can go ahead and do that.

    The fact remains that the set effect hasn't been working properly for a very long time. It is only half of the problem but it needed to be addressed. The other half, as some players are willing to mention, is Bonding Runestones and their relationship to non-augment companions. This used to be a rather hush-hush topic. The cat eventually got out of the bag and it is now the worst kept secret of NWO.




    What is properly. You think, that another hit with weapon dmg should be just weapon dmg and this is properly, think again. There are many things with similar description and different effect. Sometimes the effect is not even close to the description. You might have read one or two of these patch notes, when they 'changed the description of XY, to better match the effect'.

    'Another hit with XY dmg' is not the same as 'another hit with XY dmg'. Why? Bc this describes EITHER a hit/ dmg proc with XY FIXED dmg OR a dmg proc with XY BASE dmg. LS WAS base dmg and is CHANGED to fixed dmg. First of all, the text can stand for the effect as it is now AND for the proposed changes, so the effect was WAI. Second argument, no one is THAT stupid and redoes a effect, waits for a few more years and claims, that everything before was a slight oversight. This is a nerf, not a fix.

    Some ppl might think, that it is needed, but it is not. You want to make things more challenging, give us more difficult dungeons and no 2k IL dungeons for 4k players. Even this IL gate is BS. I could get 4.1k IL on my CW, just by adding some armor enhancements, effect close to zero for a BIS char, but ~200 IL. I have SH R 7 boons, and all the other pretty stuff, that adds ZERO IL. There is no way to create a dungeon, that is doable by most of the players and a challenge to ppl with great gear, who know how to play.

    Go ahead 'fix' all the buffs, debuffs, synergies etc. It will not change a thing. The power creep, creating a bigger and bigger gap between BIS and the rest, makes everything easy for some and difficult for the rest.

    The bonding runestones are trivial compared to some other 'featues' in this game, if you know them. I dont talk about bugs, but effects in game since release or at last some modules, properly used.


    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • masterogamasteroga Member Posts: 474 Arc User
    morenthar said:

    @ashkrik23 @asterotg

    If you want to argue semantics or the quality of the initial fix, you can go ahead and do that.

    The fact remains that the set effect hasn't been working properly for a very long time. It is only half of the problem but it needed to be addressed. The other half, as some players are willing to mention, is Bonding Runestones and their relationship to non-augment companions. This used to be a rather hush-hush topic. The cat eventually got out of the bag and it is now the worst kept secret of NWO.

    How are bonding runestones a problem and/or a secret? Sure they occasionally proc too many times, and are reset upon companions springing back to life. But that's a drop in the bucket as far a glitches resulting in extra damage. The only secret was 11 and 12's having an incorrect tooltip
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    This is silly. A set that worked up to 40 times as good as any other sets, that increased the damage of some classes by 50%+, after they said set bonuses from mod 6 on were supposed to be small symbolic bonuses only. And people think that was working as intended?
    They were just afraid of this rage storm, that's why it took so long for a change. This community is one of the most hostile, conspirancy mongering one's I've ever seen. Damage increasing bugs don't get reported either. That's why everything takes so long to actually fix.
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    masteroga said:



    How are bonding runestones a problem and/or a secret? Sure they occasionally proc too many times, and are reset upon companions springing back to life. But that's a drop in the bucket as far a glitches resulting in extra damage. The only secret was 11 and 12's having an incorrect tooltip

    285% extra stat transfer on top of an active companion that can fight with you, compared to a passive augment that gives only 100% stats. That's the problem. Bonding stones need to stop stacking if augments are meant to stay a thing in the game.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited April 2016

    This is silly. A set that worked up to 40 times as good as any other sets, that increased the damage of some classes by 50%+, after they said set bonuses from mod 6 on were supposed to be small symbolic bonuses only. And people think that was working as intended?
    They were just afraid of this rage storm, that's why it took so long for a change. This community is one of the most hostile, conspirancy mongering one's I've ever seen. Damage increasing bugs don't get reported either. That's why everything takes so long to actually fix.

    Yea, they dont fix things bc of the HAMSTER storm comming up. They 'fixed' leadership, they 'fixed' dragonhoard enchants, they 'fixed' tradebar store, they 'fixed' every class once or twice, but the did NOT fix LM set bc of the community outrage. Wait, they HAD a fix a year ago and siad it is ok now. Wait for it. Now they claim, that their first fix is still broken and they need to fix it again.

    Plz inform yourself about the facts, before you claim things you obviously dont know anything about. Nobody reports bugs? You know, that there is a bug report feat in game. You cant know how many ppl reported bugs that way. Furthermore, take a look at preview comment sections. If a bug is found on preview, it gets reported. You blame the wrong party here. There are bugs, that have been reported and confirmed by Devs for more than a year, before they got fixed. But sure, if we would have prayed for the programmers every night and sung a 'cumba ya', they would have fixed it after 9 month, so my bad...

    BTW there was a certain bug involving astral resonators, that got fixed after someone posted a 'how to' - video, bc his bug reports were ignored and the bug ruined the in game ecconomy, forcing them to act after half a year. Sure all is shiny, bad players, good company... .

    You will never find posts about real heavy duty bugs on live server, bc anything like that will be deleted. Trust me on that.

    I feel so sorry for all the Devs living in constant fear of the mighty rage of the community. There are some number crunchers, who tell them what to do, if they like it or not. Some players complaining is nothing, some players leaving is a calculated risk. Losing 80% of their players in a few years and claiming all is shiny and dandy is bold.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    There were people who actually wanted to sue the company for changing the contents of an ingame vendor. That's how insane this community is, and there is no denying that no matter what you say.
  • ideisaideisa Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    ok, so i've read all the patch notes and comments ect...I have a lvl 70 sw, my til is around 3400 with the dragonflight set almost complete....when the prior mod come out i switched from hellbringer to soul scorchin cuz obvious reasons..when the two new sets come out i went for the valindra set.completed it..it never really did much i that i could tell for me...everyone was saying switch cuz of the amazzzzzzzzing damage lostmouth set did..ok well i switched, trashed mah valindra set and got my lostmouth set up to legendary..n guess what...i couldn't tell a bit of difference...ive seen two warlocks in nw that was just out of this world damage, but they had a bit higher gear n one over 4k til..i know I'm not top but that lostmouth set didn't do a thing...and as far as the guardian fighters..they can double my damage already, i don't see why they need the help tbh..i go into a dungeon now, and if they is a pally and guardian..by the time i get there , its pretty much dead..i do know i could be alot better by uping my enchants more and such..but this huge damage you say we are all getting, i don't see it..not on my toon and i am crit based..i know there is always gonna be bigger dogs in the pin but honestly i don't see what your seeing as far as the sw class..i do believe you guys work hard on this game and its appreciated..i also have a lvl 70 cleric that will be nerfed, i can see the point on ap gain..maybe see where that can be taken down a little but by all means the new enemies to fight with all this madness n such..i just hope you are leveling it accordingly and not leaving us all sitting ducks.
    <3 ideisa
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    It was a fix because the set was doing something that wasn't intended for it to do. As such, many people bought it immediately and it reflected negatively for a longer time period. Nobody asked anyone to buy it or to fill it with RP. Player himself takes the responsibility for it, not the developers.

    So, it wasn't a nerf. Nerf wouldn't be so drastic.

    Also, take into the consideration various NDA that devs might have which prevents them from speaking publicly about various in-game issues.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User

    It was a fix because the set was doing something that wasn't intended for it to do. As such, many people bought it immediately and it reflected negatively for a longer time period. Nobody asked anyone to buy it or to fill it with RP. Player himself takes the responsibility for it, not the developers.

    So, it wasn't a nerf. Nerf wouldn't be so drastic.

    Also, take into the consideration various NDA that devs might have which prevents them from speaking publicly about various in-game issues.

    There are various feats giving xy dmg and this one description stands for either a flat number or base dmg. So you can either assume, that the first 'fix' was a failure, they had something better to do for the 1 1/2 years to come and NOW they realize the mistake and fix it (again) or they realized, that it is still OP and they need to nerf it. My money is on option two.

    BTW nobody forced you to ... is one of the stupidest arguments in the world. Nobody forced you to buy a VW, why do you complain about their CO2 emissions. It is still the same car. Nobody forces me to play this game, so I am NEVER allowed to comment or complain about ANYTHING the company does.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    You may complain all that you want, I'm not the one to tell you not to. However I also advise rationality.

    In my tests the LM set was alone responsible for super-damage. In fact, for many of the people it still is the most viable option in their builds.

    But developers have been changed. Those who came with MOD6 are not the same ones who left it in the anarchy with the mobs dealing 2.000.000 damage per second.

    Most of the things developer is the new and better content, ways to deal with the queue system etc etc. So, they decided to nerf the LM set for now and see how it goes for some time. Then implement new set bonuses, new buffs to old sets maybe. We don't know and as such we can't say.

    You are correct. A year is A LOT to let it go to that extent, but think of everything that you've accomplished for that year and got away with a broken set. Many people built a fortune upon it, raised their enchants by at least 50 %, as well as artifacts. That's not a small thing.

    Long overdue, but rightfully fixed in MOD9. Time to move on. : }
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User

    clonkyo1 said:

    . . .

    Sorry, I were typing my answer to you but i just noticed that you, basically, used my argument to make yours. I mean, obviously, a player will not wait 30 secs to cast, in example, Icy Terrain to deal inmense damage. So, the trade-off is "faster cast times in exchange of damage" yet you want that... but not JUST that, you also want to CONTROL a mob with that very same power too which, imo, its a bad situation for everyone... like happened back on mod4, no one picking GFs, DCs, HRs, and all other classes but CWs and GWFs to run dungeons (A party which could self-heal, deal inmense damage and control mobs like madmen) . So, my question to you is why do you really think that the CW-class is "really handicapped"? Hope your answer has nothing to do which "fill 2 or more roles on 1 team" as happened before mod6... and, on which, sadly, we stand on almost that very same spot again...
    Your responses are idiotic and dumbfounding. You've obviously never played a CW or you wouldn't make half of these unbiased comments. You state that our "role" is CC, when CC is dead. So if they gave CWs back the CC they had from vanilla-Mod 3, you wouldn't HAMSTER? If our Arcane Singularity, Shard of the Endless Avalanche and Steal Time went back to having no target limits? Face is, CC 'is' dead, as I said. That leaves only the "role" of DPS. Since there are only tanks/healers/DPS in this game now, you can't cherry-pick what one class gets and the others don't. Until they fix CC, CW should have an equal shot at highest DPS. And there's nothing you can say that would make it otherwise. They have a CC tree, which is dead. They have a buff tree, from which the DPS is dead. And they have a pure DPS tree, which is pretty weak right now. The fact that CWs have a pure DPS Paragon path completely nullifies everything you've said and you're just a relic of the past that still hasn't been un-butthurt by the few moments CWs were actually viable.
    Oh look, it's the pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you need to be reminded about another important role CWs can fill: debuffer. But then all CWs ever cared about is MOAR DAMAGE!
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • uptondarkdiamonduptondarkdiamond Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    lirithiel said:

    clonkyo1 said:

    . . .

    Sorry, I were typing my answer to you but i just noticed that you, basically, used my argument to make yours. I mean, obviously, a player will not wait 30 secs to cast, in example, Icy Terrain to deal inmense damage. So, the trade-off is "faster cast times in exchange of damage" yet you want that... but not JUST that, you also want to CONTROL a mob with that very same power too which, imo, its a bad situation for everyone... like happened back on mod4, no one picking GFs, DCs, HRs, and all other classes but CWs and GWFs to run dungeons (A party which could self-heal, deal inmense damage and control mobs like madmen) . So, my question to you is why do you really think that the CW-class is "really handicapped"? Hope your answer has nothing to do which "fill 2 or more roles on 1 team" as happened before mod6... and, on which, sadly, we stand on almost that very same spot again...
    Your responses are idiotic and dumbfounding. You've obviously never played a CW or you wouldn't make half of these unbiased comments. You state that our "role" is CC, when CC is dead. So if they gave CWs back the CC they had from vanilla-Mod 3, you wouldn't HAMSTER? If our Arcane Singularity, Shard of the Endless Avalanche and Steal Time went back to having no target limits? Face is, CC 'is' dead, as I said. That leaves only the "role" of DPS. Since there are only tanks/healers/DPS in this game now, you can't cherry-pick what one class gets and the others don't. Until they fix CC, CW should have an equal shot at highest DPS. And there's nothing you can say that would make it otherwise. They have a CC tree, which is dead. They have a buff tree, from which the DPS is dead. And they have a pure DPS tree, which is pretty weak right now. The fact that CWs have a pure DPS Paragon path completely nullifies everything you've said and you're just a relic of the past that still hasn't been un-butthurt by the few moments CWs were actually viable.
    Oh look, it's the pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you need to be reminded about another important role CWs can fill: debuffer. But then all CWs ever cared about is MOAR DAMAGE!
    Way to group all CW's into 1 category. I liked my pure control builds from mod2 to mod5. I would still be using pure control if it actually did something other than make fights incredibly long or make me dead. Control is this way because of nerf's to the Oppressor tree and the way Mod 6 was implemented. Admittedly, I have not done a control build (renegade/thaum) now because the mobs are somewhat toned down it might actually be OK. Then again why would I spec control when in dungeons everything is dead in 2.2 seconds and others do just as good at control or even better than I would while still have a significantly higher dps?
    Not every CW's is screaming for more dps, but as far as our striker abilities(for an average IL CW) are concerned we have been at the bottom of the pile even with using a LM set. I have changed my mind about nerfing LM, I was totaly angainst it because it was 37 percent of my dps, not a small number. If/when LM nerf happens I will adapt to it as will most of the CW's. Many of us never really wanted the LM set to begin with but the proof that it did so much for our class was showing over and over again that it made sense to use it. Even with the nerf many will still use it because of how they are spec'ed and it would cost way to much time/money to jump into a different spec and set. So please don't put us into one category because we are not there. There is lots of discussion on how to make up for the loss in dps when/if this happens.
    As far as debuffing goes I don't think we are the best at that, probably #3 when compared to DC and GF and that is only if your spec'ed MoF, which I think there are more SS the MoF CW players out there, just saying.
  • kievitzkievitz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 260 Arc User
    If you want high damage in pve, get a epic/legendary pet with preferably ring slots with suddens, avengers, fast procing power and high rank bondings (10,11, or 12).

    Currently a lot of class trees and powers are non-viable. If you think tweaking your class trees for better dmg is the way think again.

    Current meta for gaining high dgm in pve is a pet, yes a pet, with bondings and epic/ledendary mounts with epic sigils.

    Happy gaming.
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