yea this is why im calling for them to make mounts and artifacts BOA instead of BOE, so I can easily change to another toon if this is the type of mess we got to deal with, sick and tired of them ruining the fun so to speak, its already bad enough we get 1 shotted every time you turn around much less having to have the perfect party for everything to go right, and I see several people getting ready to say bunk it all together and quit, so this is your strategy, to Kill a couple of classes, run people off from the game and leave the other half mad... this is what to expect lol, well if this is what I got to expect then defintly we need those mounts and artifacts BOA!!!
Can someone please tell me, Seriously??? (And I know its none of the folks I've EVER Tanked for, or DPS'd for) In all my 264 days 4 hrs 35 mins. Not one person has said, Umm can you take half your gear off, Your too strong. We want to struggle thru this dungeon please!! With the new content being as minimal as the rewards, for the MONEY spent: No one in their right mind wants to trudge through this stuff anymore than necessary. We have 3-6 other characters to do this with. when does the improvements to characters start coming? Why are the changes so drastic? I would venture to say that the "Average Player" is 2400-2800 TIL and to be honest, You folks at Cryptic are making this very very hard to justify spending anymore money, to improve something that becomes useless in the next mod or update. What sense does that make? Are you gonna reinburse folks for their OP's when you do the useless changes your thinking of doing? I have about, well you know how much I have invested, Just write me a check. :Heres to hoping you understand something fundamental about this game, Your are taking the FUN out of it !! This is what you should be striving for each and every moment when you try to figure out what is best for your clients. who pay your salary. Just a thought.
Can someone please tell me, Seriously??? (And I know its none of the folks I've EVER Tanked for, or DPS'd for) In all my 264 days 4 hrs 35 mins. Not one person has said, Umm can you take half your gear off, Your too strong. We want to struggle thru this dungeon please!! With the new content being as minimal as the rewards, for the MONEY spent: No one in their right mind wants to trudge through this stuff anymore than necessary. We have 3-6 other characters to do this with. when does the improvements to characters start coming? Why are the changes so drastic? I would venture to say that the "Average Player" is 2400-2800 TIL and to be honest, You folks at Cryptic are making this very very hard to justify spending anymore money, to improve something that becomes useless in the next mod or update. What sense does that make? Are you gonna reinburse folks for their OP's when you do the useless changes your thinking of doing? I have about, well you know how much I have invested, Just write me a check. :Heres to hoping you understand something fundamental about this game, Your are taking the FUN out of it !! This is what you should be striving for each and every moment when you try to figure out what is best for your clients. who pay your salary. Just a thought.
I have to agree with this statement, its very clear, lets just hope yall can see it..
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
oh that devotion watch what did you know devotion dont get passive boost on power! . i used only a green companion to grant me combat advantage ( he was standing opposite from me and hit ). watch the hp 111k hp little things for aura of courage buff and the other feature the aura of wisdom. BALtreyo has to feel shame since majority of paladins report daily progress is very slow and that one lands 45k criticals smites and kill him in 30 seconds? do you want and the phylactery video too?:)
Like someone said in another post, this games 'fixes' and 'balance' is always against the players. What's next?! Let's balance the Trapper HR coz its doing more dmg and has more control than the Archery and Combat!! Balance the other 2?? Why?! This way we only shxt on the Trapper...
Don't give them any ideas. HRs have been at the bottom of the pecking order for a while now and have been nerfed a few times in spite of it. We have every reason to believe that instead of nerfing the broken EZ mode classes that have needed it for months they'll just take a giant dump on HRs again.
Changes to the Paladins are too big. No need to preview it arc. Seriously I wonder whether you should just come out and say you want to make changes so people pay you more money. Well sorry, I now refuse to give you any more so it has backfired.
I think the Paladin changes are not the best way to handle the situation. IMHO, the best way to deal with Divine Protector would be:
1) Reduce the bubble effectiveness from 80% down to 50% (like you are doing) but keep the duration and put in a cooldown of 20 seconds. That would force the Paladin to alternate between bubble and something else. Alternately, if a shorter duration is chosen, the max time at rank 4 should be 12 seconds, not 6. Otherwise Paladins will be unwelcome in PvP since they do not do damage and cannot keep their team alive. Even on Live DC's are better ... but after these changes, Paladins will be shunned in PvP.
IMHO, the best way to deal with Shield of Faith would be:
2) Reduce the effectiveness down to 40% and the duration 16 seconds (10, +2 per rank). Paladins cannot compete with DC's for team support nor with GF or GWF for damage, so absent a strong team support skill structure Paladins will become unwelcome on PvP teams.
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Someone needs to test whether OPs can tank orcus with these changes.
Of course they can't.
These nerfs need to come with a class reroll token. No way will I play a Paladin after these changes. Why would anyone want a Paladin in their party over a GF after these changes?
Considering I am tanking Ocrus on live without any Bubble at all... You don't need a bubble to tank Orcus.
All these changes look good from what I can tell. And I'm usually the first to complain. The only thing I ask is to ensure that whatever you set Haste AP gain to be that it is still a worthwhile amount to the point of it still being a good feat for clerics. Clerics should feel that having it makes them feel like they are contributing to the group/party.
All these changes look good from what I can tell. And I'm usually the first to complain. The only thing I ask is to ensure that whatever you set Haste AP gain to be that it is still a worthwhile amount to the point of it still being a good feat for clerics. Clerics should feel that having it makes them feel like they are contributing to the group/party.
haha you wouldn't be saying that if you where a paladin or CW or Cleric, because I can say this is excessive side of nerfing and makes no sense what so ever to completely kill a couple of classes badly.
Having a DC as a main character I can only feel sorry for the OPs who aren't going to be getting the same attention as before for being a "free ticket" to a successful dungeon. Since the Paladin class was brought to the Xbox One, I've been preaching for ages to my friends and to the group members in a dungeon about the importance of continuing staying away from AoEs and it seems that finally they'll have no choice but to listen. I'll feel sad for losing the ability of completing dungeons and other tasks with minimum effort in the "lazy days" but overall it seems like it will force the DPS players to shape up and do their part avoiding damage as well.
As for the changes on Gift of Haste, honestly seems alright. There is one thing though, I thought to bring to mention, given the amplitude of this game and so many things needs tweaking or fixing this can be overlooked. Some dailies such as Hallowed Ground and Anointed Army prevent the DC from getting AP back while the daily is in effect (around 15 seconds). I'll submit that with the change in the Gift of Haste mechanics, this could also be updated as so to allow the DC to receive AP right after casting a daily, from Gift of Haste at least. The amount of AP gained by each Gift of Haste hit isn't very large and it will now take 5 seconds to build that small amount, so even if the DC is under the effect of it for the entire 15 seconds with this new "buff" mechanic, it isn't going to build a lot of AP, which at least works as a reward for the DC who has spent paragon points on Gift of Haste.
I support these OP changes as is. (I have little comment on the DC changes since I have not played one since the m5 changes to DC)
As for Devoted OPs, the changes are very minor. The nerf to Shield of Faith and Heroism affects Devoted paragons, but the fact is, these powers allowed a healer to tank more than anything else. Changing SOF to lower Damage Resistance and more healing is more in line with what a healer should be doing. (IMO)
For Protector OPs this effectively kills perma-bubble, may it rest in piece. Bubbles will still be effective, but as the devs said, more as an emergency measure than a way to mitigate all damage during a dungeon run. Originally, I thought that 6 seconds was too short and that 9 or 10 would be more appropriate... I changed my mind and agree with the 6 second max. At 6 seconds, the back to back bubbles are dead... at 10 seconds, with DC sigils, AP gain DCs, high recovery, and normal AP gain can conceivably allow for 2 or even 3 bubbles in a row. It needs to go as short as 6 seconds to effectively kill perma-bubbles. I'm sure that some will still try to do it... and they may come close... but only the cost of being completely ineffective at doing anything else. So I am in favor of no more than 6 second duration. Even with the nerf, I plan to keep it slotted for use in emergencies it will still be a good power to have.
People are arguing that this will kill the class... etc... no, it won't. It will stop the class from being a one power wonder. It will only stop the people that are unwilling or unable to adapt. What does the class have to offer... The class's auras are a gold mine. Aura of courage is a must use on both my Prot and Devoted OPs... it adds damage to every hit from an ally near you... classes that use a lot of at-wills will enjoy the damage boost. (sadly, many DPS toons rarely acknowledge the contribution of support characters to their damage.) Aura of Wisdom is also a fine gem... it increase the recharge speed of powers. And there is Aura of protection as well to increase the damage resistance of your parties.
One of the best powers a OP has to contribute to the party though is Bane. 10% added Damage to the target, and 10% lowered Damage from the target, it stacks up to 3 times. This is a boss killer... with 3 stacks everyone in the party does 30% more damage to the boss, and the boss does 30% less damage... it is even quite helpful in fights against mobs.
Many of you posting are arguing that without a bubble that only GFs will get into parties. Well, tbh, in parties that play well, GFs are already preferred... along with buff DCs (not AP gain DCs). A good GF/DC combo will finish a dungeon much faster than a group using OPs... The caveat is that with a GF/Buff DC, the party knows how to dodge and still have effective DPS (multiplied by the buffs from the DC and GF.) Running dungeons feels slow by comparison when I take my Protector OP instead of my GF. If this is the case, why does everyone want an OP now instead of a GF? Simple... 1) it is easier... when in a bubble, you can leave your brain at the door and just mash buttons without ever worrying about dying 2) To be a good GF takes a lot of effort; it takes time to gear them up and learn how to play them well. While the bubble is going away, GFs will not be any easier to play... OPs will still outnumber the good GFs... and I'm sure this won't change even if a bunch of OPs rage quit.
That being said... OPs can still be effective tanks... without bubble. They can get aggro... through a few auras and VOW they get threat. It just means that to be effective tanks, OPs will need to give up the idea of perma-bubble and learn how to be an aggro monster instead. With Binding Oath, and Templar's Wrath it will still be easier to tank on a OP... These powers will keep your temp hps up so that you can take just as much damage or more than a comparably equipped GF... Even if the GF uses steel defense for damage immunity.
However, I do agree with some in this thread, a small boost to OPs threat would be welcome in light of these changes. It is much more difficult for an OP to get threat than a GF... and nearly impossible to draw threat off of someone. Either an overall threat boost, or added threat on Binding Oath.
cromejohnsenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 207Arc User
The change of the Daily to provide more healing is very unnecessary. Have you guys tried out a heal paladin? Its very easy to dish out 300k + healing with your at will without any kind of daily or buff at 2,3k gs. How is even more healing needed if no one in you group has the amount of hp? You cant overheal your target to prevent a 70k hp geared player from getting oneshotted. The extra healing in the dailies should be changed towards 3 sec of cc immunity and extra dmg etc.
DP Bubble is currently the absolute definition of the Paladin.
The purpose of the class is to provide a constant damage mitigation and aggro pulling to protect the group. As it stands, the aggro generation of Paladins is pathetic - even with the charging bull ring - and the damage mitigation is extremely low given the huge hits of even the smallest enemy npc in T2's.
DP made this not an issue but now it will really come to the fore - and I will just assume this hasn't even occurred to those who thought up this great idea.
When you make such fundamental changes to a class you need to go back to the drawing board and do it properly.
Unless this is done, Cryptic have essentially killed off their newest class. What do you call a good tank with no bubble? A Guardian Fighter.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Have the devs also considered that by removing the bubble (that's what it is) they are also forcing the OP to run defence passives, so reducing group offensive capability on top of the Lostmauth Set nerf? That means everything will take much longer to run. This makes everything less profitable. This will result in even less people playing the game.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
I'll submit that with the change in the Gift of Haste mechanics, this could also be updated as so to allow the DC to receive AP right after casting a daily, from Gift of Haste at least. The amount of AP gained by each Gift of Haste hit isn't very large and it will now take 5 seconds to build that small amount, so even if the DC is under the effect of it for the entire 15 seconds with this new "buff" mechanic, it isn't going to build a lot of AP, which at least works as a reward for the DC who has spent paragon points on Gift of Haste.
What you're saying is true if a cleric has built his playstyle aroung GoH only: that's the worst mistake you can do when you play a cleric. I can cast 2 AAs in few seconds, even without GoH. I will not spam AP to the group as before, but I can live with it. But if you look carefully at what the cleric paths can offer, what powers generates your AP regardless GoH, you can make a build where the tiny amount of AP from GoH doesn't affect your playstyle too much. On the other hand, the GoH nerf is a hard hit for the Virtuous path: imo it should be reworked to increase the mitigation features. I will stay Virtuous for the time being.
Post edited by rapo973 on
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I think the Paladin changes are not the best way to handle the situation. IMHO, the best way to deal with Divine Protector would be:
1) Reduce the bubble effectiveness from 80% down to 50% (like you are doing) but keep the duration and put in a cooldown of 20 seconds. That would force the Paladin to alternate between bubble and something else. Alternately, if a shorter duration is chosen, the max time at rank 4 should be 12 seconds, not 6. Otherwise Paladins will be unwelcome in PvP since they do not do damage and cannot keep their team alive. Even on Live DC's are better ... but after these changes, Paladins will be shunned in PvP.
IMHO, the best way to deal with Shield of Faith would be:
2) Reduce the effectiveness down to 40% and the duration 16 seconds (10, +2 per rank). Paladins cannot compete with DC's for team support nor with GF or GWF for damage, so absent a strong team support skill structure Paladins will become unwelcome on PvP teams.
40% on shield which is DAILY compared to 50% protection from KV which is encounter (and perma) is just laughable. Even 50% is not something that can protect weaklings. I can live with 50% protection, my main is near 4k. I took my archer which was 2.3-2.4k to etos (1st time t2 for him) and there was only GF. Died once, at phase spders coz of lag. No fox used tho, bloodtheft enchant in aror, nothing in weapon. But thats me. With GF I know i have to avoid red areas, and im doing that. Im here for almost 3 years, know how to play. Put fresh player, without boons, even without guild boons. They will fail, some of them will learn and back but someone wont back and just search for new MMO. Thats NW losing players.
Want balance things? Nerf DP but keep shield of faith where it is now, 24 seconds is enough to build ap without broken aura or AP mounts. It will keep OP in pair to GF. Other thing is survive some stupid high damage from some bosses and dragons. But we will work at it. Remember current DP combined with binding is not only protection for party but also help paladin survive those stupid hits. Mine OP sit at 2.6k (stopped upgrading him long time ago), I will try take him to CN on PTR if find people. 12 seconds is not enough for sure to keep shield up on single target like bosses.
Feats: Gift of Haste: Now grants AP over 5 seconds, instead of instantly. If you are already affected by Gift of Haste, having it applied to you again will refresh the duration.
Will you also allow HoTs to be refreshed when re-applied? It seems there is a delay of some sorts, that when I re-cast a heal (like Bastion) for a second time (the first is close to expiry) the ally does not seem to get any healing. However, when I re-cast a 3rd time, when everything should be expired, then healing can continue again. I have noticed this delay quite often. Perhaps it can be addressed by allowing HoTs to be refreshed (at the new heal values, if they are critical for that cast, for example, or vice versa).
Ok, i can understand nerfing OP's. we were over powered in pvp and in pve. Nothing could kill us when we had bubble up. But you took it too far. you decreased bubble duration DRASTICALLY as well as reducing the damage resistance it gave by a whole 30%. that is 2 nerfs in one. then you want to nerf echos of light alos. effectively decreasing our survivability AND our dps. GF's already have more dps that OP's. perhaps you could increase our damage rather than nerf it since you are nerfing our survivability so badly? Ive spent hundreds of hours and a few hundred dollars on my op. if the nerf goes through as written here, i wont see a reason to play the game anymore. I am sure many others with OP's as thier mains feel the same.
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Someone needs to test whether OPs can tank orcus with these changes.
Of course they can't.
These nerfs need to come with a class reroll token. No way will I play a Paladin after these changes. Why would anyone want a Paladin in their party over a GF after these changes?
Considering I am tanking Ocrus on live without any Bubble at all... You don't need a bubble to tank Orcus.
If your tanking Orcus without DP with a GS under 3k and without any enchants higher than a 9 I would certainly like to see you post a vid.
Someone else posted that they can do it too, but hey they had a GS of 3.9k and pretty much rank 12s. If that is what it takes to do something that shouldn't require higher than rank 9s then that is NOT balanced.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
As for Devoted OPs, the changes are very minor. The nerf to Shield of Faith and Heroism affects Devoted paragons, but the fact is, these powers allowed a healer to tank more than anything else. Changing SOF to lower Damage Resistance and more healing is more in line with what a healer should be doing. (IMO)
More in line? The DC provides better protection and debuffs by a wide margin. Bane on a boss doesn't protect players from adds.
No, dungeons will be longer with the same lack of rewards and DPS classes doing much less damage. The rewards now need to be improved to make the extra time worth it.
Thank you sir! I've browsed those hundreds of pages of text after the announced changes and finally saw this. Most of the layers agreed that the game was too easy due to the completely broken class balance/stats/items ect.
Now, when the game dev's started these changes, we would welcome rewards being adjusted. Of course one can say that the extra challenge is the reward! yes! but some better loot at the end wouldn't hurt would it?
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Also, some bosses (such as Orcus), can do massive damage to a tank even through bubble. And orcus doesnt show a red mark on the ground indicating he is about to activate this stomp of his. i have a 2.7k OP. IF i didnt have bubble up for him, his stomp would HAMSTER me. it happens too often for me to stay alive without bubble. and even though a DC can keep me healed for the first few stomps, eventually a situation is going to occur where their healing encounters are on CD while my temp hp is gone. and stomp im dead. orcus is supposed to be possible for 2.5kIL groups. with reducing duration and damage resistance of bubble, he wont be possible for any group lower than 3k IL. the same is true for grey wolf den and the final boss there. I would activate sanctuary to help survive this, but there is a long delay between the time i press shift and the time sanctuary actually pops up. the delay is longer than his animation. I can understand not wanting PvE content to be trivial. but you have made it harder than most groups can handle that fit the required IL. this will also drastically affect lower geared player more than higher geared players. making it even harder for them to gear up.
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Someone needs to test whether OPs can tank orcus with these changes.
Of course they can't.
These nerfs need to come with a class reroll token. No way will I play a Paladin after these changes. Why would anyone want a Paladin in their party over a GF after these changes?
Considering I am tanking Ocrus on live without any Bubble at all... You don't need a bubble to tank Orcus.
Yes, but a GF can do it as well plus buff the party way better.
Once more Cryptic is going to make changes to the classes. Once more several classes (though most affected is going to be OP) are going to be trashed, and as always after this nerf they'll notice how awful this change was and then they'll say sorry and hopefully it will take them around less than 4 modules to make Paladin really balanced. All you do is keep nerfing. Now, CW and GWF are the most balanced classes in the game so far. NO, let's keep nerfing them, hah? Trs and Hrs should've been nerfed a REALLY long time ago, I'm not even going to start about their balance, not enough pages and time, but the point is that you do everything like you're always right, and then say *ohh HAMSTER, we done a mistake, lets say sorry and act like nothing happened*. What I mean is that you most of the time listen to a few newbies complaining how they, a 1,2k players were killed by BiS players. That's another theme - making PvP equal, and stopping the 5 2k IL players Vs 5 4,2K IL BiS player premades, but it has to do A LOT with class balance.
You gave paladins bubble because you've done elemental evil where a pally is almost a necessity, then you suddenly make paladin's main reason as a tank go down to the trash can. Why not? Let's give them 6 seconds instead of 20. Okay, 20 is too much, but HOW ABOUT instead of making this decision - LISTEN not to only opinions, but also to where those opinions are coming from? I mean, the most people complaining about bubble are PvP players. So why don't you make changes to bubble against players?
Another HUGE problem you (as always) missed, is that paladins don't need a nerf in tanking, they need a nerf in damage. When my GWF had 2,6k IL, a 2,7k paladin outdpsed me almost 1,5 times. Now my GWF is 2,9k IL and still i deal just a bit more than a 3k pally.
Please note this -> Do not make changes on your own. Next time ask the players or something as such, stop listening to a pair of opinions and making something so drastic, start making votes and such, because a lot of people want to nerf palys and keep on going to the forums complaing about it, awhile players that are fine with it and dont want a nerf (Not only people who play paladin) what do they think and how to properly change the numbers, because you just made paladin go down from class Nr.1-2 to class Nr.8 (There's 8 classes in total).
And still I have to say, you did look into making some changes for the better of the players, so I am putting hope, that you will think about the changes you're about to make, and not make it as a huge fall as you did with module 6
12 seconds is not enough for sure to keep shield up on single target like bosses.
If you know how the boss tactics, you dont need a perm bubble. Ofc no one will learn a tactic if you cant get any incoming damage.
I dont need bubble in dungeon, yes. Done all with GF and no problem for me. But you forgot about people with low gear, with low skill. How they are suppose to get epic gear? Put 2k real fresh party with fresh gf, no boons, no idea how to tank properly... I have seen geared OP who was struggled against orcus (watched stream). Bubble was indeed easy mode, but for some people it was only mode to obtain gear and stay in game, making profit. Thing is NW is not only for skilled, geared people, NW is also for casuals who dont want to wipe all over again. They play mmo with friends, some of them leave dollars in game.
We need challenge but it should be rather higher tier dungeons for people 3k+. Right now 2k can put their step in CN... So... You will always complain things are easy, coz you outgear it. Its cheesy to play with 3-4k gear. Now OP's head will roll coz they made it totally easy mode. Its breaking class not balancing it. Real balance should allow them intercept damage from party members like GFs dooing, no perma bubble but allow them tank with shield of faith.
And all keep defending old sets and bonding multiproc... Oh yeah, its easy, its so easy to play. OP are bad, but bondings and old sets are gut, keep them please!
Comments
I have to agree with this statement, its very clear, lets just hope yall can see it..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x41r3ep
oh that devotion watch what did you know devotion dont get passive boost on power! . i used only a green companion to grant me combat advantage ( he was standing opposite from me and hit ). watch the hp 111k hp little things for aura of courage buff and the other feature the aura of wisdom. BALtreyo has to feel shame since majority of paladins report daily progress is very slow and that one lands 45k criticals smites and kill him in 30 seconds? do you want and the phylactery video too?:)
1) Reduce the bubble effectiveness from 80% down to 50% (like you are doing) but keep the duration and put in a cooldown of 20 seconds. That would force the Paladin to alternate between bubble and something else. Alternately, if a shorter duration is chosen, the max time at rank 4 should be 12 seconds, not 6. Otherwise Paladins will be unwelcome in PvP since they do not do damage and cannot keep their team alive. Even on Live DC's are better ... but after these changes, Paladins will be shunned in PvP.
IMHO, the best way to deal with Shield of Faith would be:
2) Reduce the effectiveness down to 40% and the duration 16 seconds (10, +2 per rank). Paladins cannot compete with DC's for team support nor with GF or GWF for damage, so absent a strong team support skill structure Paladins will become unwelcome on PvP teams.
Having a DC as a main character I can only feel sorry for the OPs who aren't going to be getting the same attention as before for being a "free ticket" to a successful dungeon. Since the Paladin class was brought to the Xbox One, I've been preaching for ages to my friends and to the group members in a dungeon about the importance of continuing staying away from AoEs and it seems that finally they'll have no choice but to listen. I'll feel sad for losing the ability of completing dungeons and other tasks with minimum effort in the "lazy days" but overall it seems like it will force the DPS players to shape up and do their part avoiding damage as well.
As for the changes on Gift of Haste, honestly seems alright. There is one thing though, I thought to bring to mention, given the amplitude of this game and so many things needs tweaking or fixing this can be overlooked. Some dailies such as Hallowed Ground and Anointed Army prevent the DC from getting AP back while the daily is in effect (around 15 seconds). I'll submit that with the change in the Gift of Haste mechanics, this could also be updated as so to allow the DC to receive AP right after casting a daily, from Gift of Haste at least. The amount of AP gained by each Gift of Haste hit isn't very large and it will now take 5 seconds to build that small amount, so even if the DC is under the effect of it for the entire 15 seconds with this new "buff" mechanic, it isn't going to build a lot of AP, which at least works as a reward for the DC who has spent paragon points on Gift of Haste.
All the best.
As for Devoted OPs, the changes are very minor. The nerf to Shield of Faith and Heroism affects Devoted paragons, but the fact is, these powers allowed a healer to tank more than anything else. Changing SOF to lower Damage Resistance and more healing is more in line with what a healer should be doing. (IMO)
For Protector OPs this effectively kills perma-bubble, may it rest in piece. Bubbles will still be effective, but as the devs said, more as an emergency measure than a way to mitigate all damage during a dungeon run. Originally, I thought that 6 seconds was too short and that 9 or 10 would be more appropriate... I changed my mind and agree with the 6 second max. At 6 seconds, the back to back bubbles are dead... at 10 seconds, with DC sigils, AP gain DCs, high recovery, and normal AP gain can conceivably allow for 2 or even 3 bubbles in a row. It needs to go as short as 6 seconds to effectively kill perma-bubbles. I'm sure that some will still try to do it... and they may come close... but only the cost of being completely ineffective at doing anything else. So I am in favor of no more than 6 second duration. Even with the nerf, I plan to keep it slotted for use in emergencies it will still be a good power to have.
People are arguing that this will kill the class... etc... no, it won't. It will stop the class from being a one power wonder. It will only stop the people that are unwilling or unable to adapt. What does the class have to offer... The class's auras are a gold mine. Aura of courage is a must use on both my Prot and Devoted OPs... it adds damage to every hit from an ally near you... classes that use a lot of at-wills will enjoy the damage boost. (sadly, many DPS toons rarely acknowledge the contribution of support characters to their damage.) Aura of Wisdom is also a fine gem... it increase the recharge speed of powers. And there is Aura of protection as well to increase the damage resistance of your parties.
One of the best powers a OP has to contribute to the party though is Bane. 10% added Damage to the target, and 10% lowered Damage from the target, it stacks up to 3 times. This is a boss killer... with 3 stacks everyone in the party does 30% more damage to the boss, and the boss does 30% less damage... it is even quite helpful in fights against mobs.
Many of you posting are arguing that without a bubble that only GFs will get into parties. Well, tbh, in parties that play well, GFs are already preferred... along with buff DCs (not AP gain DCs). A good GF/DC combo will finish a dungeon much faster than a group using OPs... The caveat is that with a GF/Buff DC, the party knows how to dodge and still have effective DPS (multiplied by the buffs from the DC and GF.) Running dungeons feels slow by comparison when I take my Protector OP instead of my GF. If this is the case, why does everyone want an OP now instead of a GF? Simple... 1) it is easier... when in a bubble, you can leave your brain at the door and just mash buttons without ever worrying about dying 2) To be a good GF takes a lot of effort; it takes time to gear them up and learn how to play them well. While the bubble is going away, GFs will not be any easier to play... OPs will still outnumber the good GFs... and I'm sure this won't change even if a bunch of OPs rage quit.
That being said... OPs can still be effective tanks... without bubble. They can get aggro... through a few auras and VOW they get threat. It just means that to be effective tanks, OPs will need to give up the idea of perma-bubble and learn how to be an aggro monster instead. With Binding Oath, and Templar's Wrath it will still be easier to tank on a OP... These powers will keep your temp hps up so that you can take just as much damage or more than a comparably equipped GF... Even if the GF uses steel defense for damage immunity.
However, I do agree with some in this thread, a small boost to OPs threat would be welcome in light of these changes. It is much more difficult for an OP to get threat than a GF... and nearly impossible to draw threat off of someone. Either an overall threat boost, or added threat on Binding Oath.
Murphster - SS CW | Jennsen Rahl - MoF CW
Taarna - GWF
Eowyn - Protector OP | Leela - Devoted OP
Mara Jade - TR
Leeloo - Tempt SW | Kahlan Amnell - Fury SW | Galadriel - Damnation SW
Sturm Nightblade - GF
The extra healing in the dailies should be changed towards 3 sec of cc immunity and extra dmg etc.
The purpose of the class is to provide a constant damage mitigation and aggro pulling to protect the group. As it stands, the aggro generation of Paladins is pathetic - even with the charging bull ring - and the damage mitigation is extremely low given the huge hits of even the smallest enemy npc in T2's.
DP made this not an issue but now it will really come to the fore - and I will just assume this hasn't even occurred to those who thought up this great idea.
When you make such fundamental changes to a class you need to go back to the drawing board and do it properly.
Unless this is done, Cryptic have essentially killed off their newest class. What do you call a good tank with no bubble? A Guardian Fighter.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
But if you look carefully at what the cleric paths can offer, what powers generates your AP regardless GoH, you can make a build where the tiny amount of AP from GoH doesn't affect your playstyle too much.
On the other hand, the GoH nerf is a hard hit for the Virtuous path: imo it should be reworked to increase the mitigation features.
I will stay Virtuous for the time being.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Want balance things? Nerf DP but keep shield of faith where it is now, 24 seconds is enough to build ap without broken aura or AP mounts. It will keep OP in pair to GF. Other thing is survive some stupid high damage from some bosses and dragons. But we will work at it. Remember current DP combined with binding is not only protection for party but also help paladin survive those stupid hits. Mine OP sit at 2.6k (stopped upgrading him long time ago), I will try take him to CN on PTR if find people. 12 seconds is not enough for sure to keep shield up on single target like bosses.
It seems there is a delay of some sorts, that when I re-cast a heal (like Bastion) for a second time (the first is close to expiry) the ally does not seem to get any healing. However, when I re-cast a 3rd time, when everything should be expired, then healing can continue again. I have noticed this delay quite often. Perhaps it can be addressed by allowing HoTs to be refreshed (at the new heal values, if they are critical for that cast, for example, or vice versa).
Someone else posted that they can do it too, but hey they had a GS of 3.9k and pretty much rank 12s. If that is what it takes to do something that shouldn't require higher than rank 9s then that is NOT balanced.
Most of the layers agreed that the game was too easy due to the completely broken class balance/stats/items ect.
Now, when the game dev's started these changes, we would welcome rewards being adjusted. Of course one can say that the extra challenge is the reward! yes! but some better loot at the end wouldn't hurt would it?
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
game - Human/real life - ???
OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
You gave paladins bubble because you've done elemental evil where a pally is almost a necessity, then you suddenly make paladin's main reason as a tank go down to the trash can. Why not? Let's give them 6 seconds instead of 20. Okay, 20 is too much, but HOW ABOUT instead of making this decision - LISTEN not to only opinions, but also to where those opinions are coming from? I mean, the most people complaining about bubble are PvP players. So why don't you make changes to bubble against players?
Another HUGE problem you (as always) missed, is that paladins don't need a nerf in tanking, they need a nerf in damage. When my GWF had 2,6k IL, a 2,7k paladin outdpsed me almost 1,5 times. Now my GWF is 2,9k IL and still i deal just a bit more than a 3k pally.
Please note this -> Do not make changes on your own. Next time ask the players or something as such, stop listening to a pair of opinions and making something so drastic, start making votes and such, because a lot of people want to nerf palys and keep on going to the forums complaing about it, awhile players that are fine with it and dont want a nerf (Not only people who play paladin) what do they think and how to properly change the numbers, because you just made paladin go down from class Nr.1-2 to class Nr.8 (There's 8 classes in total).
And still I have to say, you did look into making some changes for the better of the players, so I am putting hope, that you will think about the changes you're about to make, and not make it as a huge fall as you did with module 6
We need challenge but it should be rather higher tier dungeons for people 3k+. Right now 2k can put their step in CN... So... You will always complain things are easy, coz you outgear it. Its cheesy to play with 3-4k gear. Now OP's head will roll coz they made it totally easy mode. Its breaking class not balancing it. Real balance should allow them intercept damage from party members like GFs dooing, no perma bubble but allow them tank with shield of faith.
And all keep defending old sets and bonding multiproc... Oh yeah, its easy, its so easy to play. OP are bad, but bondings and old sets are gut, keep them please!