for the ap dc i think it was must to stop those 4 sec dailies
Correct: to stop 4sec dailies the virtuous path is now destroyed with no value if other changes are not made. Go righteous and take GoH if needed. GoH + big buffs = great. 2 DC paths in the trash (PvE) = no real design behind this nerf.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Many of you are of happy the Bubble was destroyed to the ground, but they did not stop there, they pretty much took the OP out of PVP altogether. They took Heroism out too, now a paladin is close to useless. When you guys scream nerf, Cryptic will give it to you, and they did. Good job people.
I didn't see any reason to nerf heroism to hell. Buff yourself, that's nice. It doesn't save your party.
I see a huge problem here if GFs are allowed to freely get full AP every moment and spam dailies while the OP can't.
The nerf to Divine Protector is a bit excessive. 20 secs all the way to 6 secs? That coupled with the Shield of Faith change will pretty much make the Pally less desirable in groups. 10 to 12 secs would be a good place to start with Divine Protector.
I hope that this is true. While I love playing my DC I just dislike the fact that Everyone wants a Haste DC. It gets boring to grant haste and spam Sunburst. It gets boring to Debuff. I feel like while it will help the DC become a healer again in this game, I feel like the demand for a Haste DC could be slightly greater in certain situations. While the Faithful is already a great clutch healer, an healing op could still be in greater demand than it. Maybe I'm wrong. Is the a way to slightly buff the Faithful tree of the devoted cleric? Or maybe some of it's passive abilities? Maybe that is a bit too much to ask. Just wanted to know
I main a Buff/Debuff AP Gain DC... I haven't had trouble keeping my team alive since I came back in late Mod 6... lol. No reason to have to go "full heals" with a DC... if your team is decent.
True. Which is very good for premades. I'm just saying why does there only have to be one way to play one class.. I have an ap cleric and I can't see how the class is fun anymore. I find myself respeccing to righteous and faithful more often just to enjoy it more. I came back from mod 5 to the previous mod a few months back and while I did like the ap gain at first, the DC in general has become a lazy class because of the changes. No need to heal when there's a pally, just support the team with ap and spam constant dailies. Press 1, sun burst a couple of times, redo it again, etc. It's like why play to become better if this is all I have to do.
A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.
Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals. Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
These are great news! Thanks Devs for finally taking action on these issues.
My mains are a Bullwark Palladin and an Opressor Control Wizard.
The changes to daily wont affect my Bullwark. I can even tank Orcus with no Bubble and have zero problem. And maybe CC can be actually useful now. Lets see how that will work for my Opressor...
A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.
Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals. Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.
Righteous shoudn't be the only path to take is what I'm saying. Righteous is a beast and I love it for dps and debuffing which is cool, but that's why I have multiple chars. I personally don't care for dmg on my cleric. I just want a really great healer but it sucks that I can't even heal now. I might as well make a healing Paladin regardless of all the time and effort I spent into my cleric. Yes Virtuous is nice but maybe if it wasn't played so lazily I could accept it. Maybe at least provide dmg mitigation for both Virtuous and Faithful. That I could maybe see. Maybe when I'm 3k+ I'll stick with righteous but as far a now I feel like there are no real options for the dc except for what the daily spamming classes along with the pally wants. Maybe I'm just a little stubborn, I could really see Righteous path with Virtuous feats, but still, the point is, I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing to be a great player or to make it a great class.
A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.
Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals. Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.
Righteous shoudn't be the only path to take is what I'm saying. Righteous is a beast and I love it for dps and debuffing which is cool, but that's why I have multiple chars. I personally don't care for dmg on my cleric. I just want a really great healer but it sucks that I can't even heal now. I might as well make a healing Paladin regardless of all the time and effort I spent into my cleric. Yes Virtuous is nice but maybe if it wasn't played so lazily I could accept it. Maybe at least provide dmg mitigation for both Virtuous and Faithful. That I could maybe see. Maybe when I'm 3k+ I'll stick with righteous but as far a now I feel like there are no real options for the dc except for what the daily spamming classes along with the pally wants. Maybe I'm just a little stubborn, I could really see Righteous path with Virtuous feats, but still, the point is, I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing to be a great player or to make it a great class.
What exactly is wrong for faithful as a healing DC? you have damage mitigation from a number of available skills, and you save the party from 1 shots with the faithful capstone
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Not a OP but bring it to 10 seconds would still allow perma bubble. with the right items it won't be hard to generate full ap in 10 seconds or close to.
Just buff encounters to give more shield/temp hp. Shield of faith gives paladin equal footing with GF party defensive wise but it is a daily. So OPs should get something desirable that GFs cannot provide.
Maybe bump shield of faith up to 20 seconds so a paladin can use DP whilst that daily is up in emergencies.
I do have a bubble OP, not a main - it was clearly overpowered, still I'm not sure if this 20sec->6sec is the best available solution. It would be better to skip invincibility and make damages bleed through, so people would still need to pay attention to red spots and mechanics - time reduction is not a bad thing again, just it seems like a tiny bit more than needed, 10-15 second long bubble with ~60-70% protection - just an example - it would still keep the skill viable, but mechanics and cautiousness and healers would be required to be competitive. I could live without the bubble (outside the fact that it seems to make jut another trash skill to avoid), but some boss and miniboss are do hit in the hundreds of thousands, with the orcus debuff/buff bug in the 500k-1M range. So if things stay the same, those "tiny" annoyances would be good to get rid of. (Portal phase of Orcus does not reliably removes the defense/damage debuff if you complete it, and pretty damages from black and blue dragons of DF)
Binding Oath fix is good in my opinion, oath killing things was funny, but clearly an exploit.
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
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I built my Pally knowing this day will come....DR to the MAX. I hardly take damage except from elites and bosses, the bubble was just for emergencies. Not for me but for all those peasants who refuse to move out of the red zones. The Perma Bubbles made my cleric useless and everyone else lazy. Now dungeons should be more funner as everyone has to worry about their own mortality!!!
A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.
Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals. Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.
Righteous shoudn't be the only path to take is what I'm saying. Righteous is a beast and I love it for dps and debuffing which is cool, but that's why I have multiple chars. I personally don't care for dmg on my cleric. I just want a really great healer but it sucks that I can't even heal now. I might as well make a healing Paladin regardless of all the time and effort I spent into my cleric. Yes Virtuous is nice but maybe if it wasn't played so lazily I could accept it. Maybe at least provide dmg mitigation for both Virtuous and Faithful. That I could maybe see. Maybe when I'm 3k+ I'll stick with righteous but as far a now I feel like there are no real options for the dc except for what the daily spamming classes along with the pally wants. Maybe I'm just a little stubborn, I could really see Righteous path with Virtuous feats, but still, the point is, I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing to be a great player or to make it a great class.
What exactly is wrong for faithful as a healing DC? you have damage mitigation from a number of available skills, and you save the party from 1 shots with the faithful capstone
I would say, the way I look at it. It's almost like the faithful build is unneeded, or rather unwanted. A few people said it's still relevant in earlier dungeons which is true. True end game is another matter. Righteous is awesome. Faithful is good and can still be great but it's situational. Seems like the game is so dependent on AP that you HAVE to spec for GoH, missing key feats in other trees. If I wanted to be a DPS/Debuff cleric then screw different trees, righteous all the way. Don't ask for haste. I feel the same about faithful. Some dungeons it's great but for people who like the easy route, they get mad and for not being able to generate AP. People actually get mad about stuff like this and ask me to leave (players outside of guild.) Is the game now in these last few mods that dependent on AP. Yes Faithful has a great capstone but people will continue to shoot it down because of what the other trees (particularly Virtuous) can do. I gotta say there are a lot of situations like these and I know it might not change and I should let go of thinking about it. Playing with guildmates and premades is the best route for me to go. I've always felt like this, even before there was a Gift of Haste. I believe I like the rush and the intensity of healing everyone. Heals over time just doesn't do it for me.
I will speak as a DC player of all 3 paths. First of all, i know these permabubble is one of the real issue and should be solved as soon as possible. However, nerfing GoH until 1% per sec without stacking is an overkill, let me tell you why:
For most of us who had a clear understanding on DC, each path (V/F/R) are designed for different purpose and have different playstyle. I guess none of the devs mained a DC or even tried to advance as a DC from level 1 to level 70 and then from 2k il to 4k il. The experience and playstyle is totally different for each small il progression and we DC have to cope seriously when we pug or even premade with others. In other words, we are everything at anytime. If ppl need heal, we heal, if ppl need dps, we multiply their damage, if ppl need someone to tank, we will go front and try not to die, if ppl need AP, we will try our best to spam some HoT to keep our OP daily up and so on bla bla bla....
Personally, i was a virtuous dc with GoH, pvp faithful tank with GoH and a righteous heavy debuffer with GoH. The magnitude of AP shared as virtuous is totally different as the other two. As the virtuous feat does apply HoT quite frequently, GoH starts to shine as a potential key feature to have for low il party. As a faithful and righteous, though we can still apply GoH, the effect is too small as we dont always have HoT skill in our bar and we dont have extra virtuous feat to trigger it. Thus, GoH only shines in the hand of virtuous. By limiting it to 1% per sec without stacking, virtuous and the other 2 paths have no difference anymore, losing its signature ability. Moreover, the amount of AP gain is drastically reduced until the feat is totally useless. I will give you an example. If i cast 5 HoT skills in 5 sec i should get 5x5%=25% AP, but with the new mechanic i will only get 5% by the time i casted all 5 HoT, even i included another 4% after 4 sec i still only have 9% extra AP. A artifact necklace can do better than 5 points in this feat in terms of triggering condition and AP/s, is this what you all want to see?
Previously, when daily spamming from TR (SE) due to legendary DC sigil, what the devs did is not nerf the sigil but nerf two DC daily until we cant gain AP for 15 sec+. After that, the DC who didnt use their sigil previously has problem to cast their daily while the daily spamming TR are still spamming their daily like nothing. This time i saw the same thing happening again. The way to solve perma bubble from their artifact weapons, DC sigil and AP stat gain is to nerf DC's GoH. Is that related? Yes but only in lower bracket il where OP is still not geared enough. I would like to say, dont consider nerfing DC as the ultimate solution for daily spamming, how many times we are not the culprit but yet we get no bug fixing but more nerfs??
From my perspective, there is some good solutions without hurting DC too much but can also solve the problem of TR SE spamming and OP perma bubble: 1. GoH changed to 0.5% AP/s for 5 sec but allow to stack (no more burst AP but slower steady AP gain per sec) 2. Tune down the duration of OP bubble (you all already did so i will skip) 3. Change the DC sigil active to be double AP gain rate for 10 sec at mythic instead of giving full AP bar per min.
If you really think perma bubble is not because of your luxury snail, hard to grind burning weapon set, mythic DC sigil, gorgon and embellished apparatus mount but is only our DC feat, go on to nerf it as your like and kill the virtuous path. We are not needed for pve as healer over 2.5k il, no more AP buff for team as virtuous so faithful will be more superior in healing that it. If you really want to nerf GoH, go ahead but remember to remove the AP gain penalty on DC dailies which last time you all nerf us without reason. Do not hurt DC anymore when you dont have to, if you need more information abt DC, please ask the devs who mained a DC to go into temple forum to discuss with us, ty!! (though i think this guy not exist)
No, dungeons will be longer with the same lack of rewards and DPS classes doing much less damage. The rewards now need to be improved to make the extra time worth it.
No, dungeons will take the time they had always intended to take. You arn't getting short changed, you were enjoying a free ride. Be glad they arnt going to ask for a return of all the stuff you gained while enjoying that free ride.
I will speak as a DC player of all 3 paths. First of all, i know these permabubble is one of the real issue and should be solved as soon as possible. However, nerfing GoH until 1% per sec without stacking is an overkill, let me tell you why:
For most of us who had a clear understanding on DC, each path (V/F/R) are designed for different purpose and have different playstyle. I guess none of the devs mained a DC or even tried to advance as a DC from level 1 to level 70 and then from 2k il to 4k il. The experience and playstyle is totally different for each small il progression and we DC have to cope seriously when we pug or even premade with others. In other words, we are everything at anytime. If ppl need heal, we heal, if ppl need dps, we multiply their damage, if ppl need someone to tank, we will go front and try not to die, if ppl need AP, we will try our best to spam some HoT to keep our OP daily up and so on bla bla bla....
Personally, i was a virtuous dc with GoH, pvp faithful tank with GoH and a righteous heavy debuffer with GoH. The magnitude of AP shared as virtuous is totally different as the other two. As the virtuous feat does apply HoT quite frequently, GoH starts to shine as a potential key feature to have for low il party. As a faithful and righteous, though we can still apply GoH, the effect is too small as we dont always have HoT skill in our bar and we dont have extra virtuous feat to trigger it. Thus, GoH only shines in the hand of virtuous. By limiting it to 1% per sec without stacking, virtuous and the other 2 paths have no difference anymore, losing its signature ability. Moreover, the amount of AP gain is drastically reduced until the feat is totally useless. I will give you an example. If i cast 5 HoT skills in 5 sec i should get 5x5%=25% AP, but with the new mechanic i will only get 5% by the time i casted all 5 HoT, even i included another 4% after 4 sec i still only have 9% extra AP. A artifact necklace can do better than 5 points in this feat in terms of triggering condition and AP/s, is this what you all want to see?
Previously, when daily spamming from TR (SE) due to legendary DC sigil, what the devs did is not nerf the sigil but nerf two DC daily until we cant gain AP for 15 sec+. After that, the DC who didnt use their sigil previously has problem to cast their daily while the daily spamming TR are still spamming their daily like nothing. This time i saw the same thing happening again. The way to solve perma bubble from their artifact weapons, DC sigil and AP stat gain is to nerf DC's GoH. Is that related? Yes but only in lower bracket il where OP is still not geared enough. I would like to say, dont consider nerfing DC as the ultimate solution for daily spamming, how many times we are not the culprit but yet we get no bug fixing but more nerfs??
From my perspective, there is some good solutions without hurting DC too much but can also solve the problem of TR SE spamming and OP perma bubble: 1. GoH changed to 0.5% AP/s for 5 sec but allow to stack (no more burst AP but slower steady AP gain per sec) 2. Tune down the duration of OP bubble (you all already did so i will skip) 3. Change the DC sigil active to be double AP gain rate for 10 sec at mythic instead of giving full AP bar per min.
If you really think perma bubble is not because of your luxury snail, hard to grind burning weapon set, mythic DC sigil, gorgon and embellished apparatus mount but is only our DC feat, go on to nerf it as your like and kill the virtuous path. We are not needed for pve as healer over 2.5k il, no more AP buff for team as virtuous so faithful will be more superior in healing that it. If you really want to nerf GoH, go ahead but remember to remove the AP gain penalty on DC dailies which last time you all nerf us without reason. Do not hurt DC anymore when you dont have to, if you need more information abt DC, please ask the devs who mained a DC to go into temple forum to discuss with us, ty!! (though i think this guy not exist)
I really agree with this guy on the AP gain. What about making Gift of Haste a passive ability in the powers section? Or is that just overkill? Have it set so that when it's active you generate a small amount of AP every few seconds for your team when it's set to active. Maybe then it's too much, idk. Just an idea.
As a virtuous DC, just tested the gift of haste change and i can say: It is still good. Having 1% ap every sec for 5 secs is more than fine and if the cleric can rotate his healing over time effects well, gift of haste can give 1% ap every sec until the daily bar is filled. It now works similar to devote cleric artifact but not as fast as it. Also, the ap generation from the allies themself added to the haste buff will keep AP for them still filled. So gift of haste is still good in my opinion.
About divine glow: It still doesnt proc weapon enchantments. And the wording for ranks is still the same. Each rank mentions "damage buff". Divine glow doesnt buff damage but damage resistance. And about not stacking while in divinity... well I'm used to what it has always been so didnt get my hopes too high... Also i was expecting more fixes and some kinda buff to some Virtuous feats that are not working well and that i have mentioned for some long in old posts, im tired of having to post if i am being ignored.
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mutjinninjaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 93Arc User
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
Maybe if the challenge was met with actual rewards. You know, actually desirable things other than salvage. Like..boe insignias, or dropped sets, or like...anything other than what we have now really. What the team fails to grasp is that challenging content will only be done if there is an equal reward for completing it. Not a .005% chance to get a +5 ring or artifact. That can hardly be called a fair chance at a reward.
So if you want to challenge us, don't just beat the living hell out of our toons; give us some compensation for running the paltry endgame offerings that you left us with after stealing our dungeons away (yes I'm still bitter over the devs actually taking away the endgame and never giving it back)
First off...i have only played healadin so my beef isn't that you broke how I play the game. Its that you left it this way for a WHOLE YEAR not working as intended???
IIRC, DC's had AP gain blocked while some dailies are active back in mod 5, not in mod 6 when AP gain was introduced. And the GoH nerf would have stopped a great many paladins from being able to permabubble, but you are correct Jazzfong, the haste nerf would not have stopped the good/geared paladins from doing their own permabubble, which is why they nerfed the uptime on bubble and nerfed haste at the same time.
The number of dailies really was getting too high, paladins aside. And no, haste was not the only ability at fault here. But like with the lostmauth nerf creating a level playing field to balance DPS on, haste is at a level where the devs can see what changes can be made to AP generation in general. I agree that virtuous could use a couple tweaks now to make it a bit more unique again.
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Ya, none of the changes put on Preview today should make it to live. They are too harsh and destroy CW and Paladin.
Yea totally agree, this is total overkill, im sorry but this is completely unacceptable for it to go this far, their should be a grandfather claus in this game to where if you leave something like this for more then X amount of time it becomes grandfathered into the game and cannot be changed, im sick of spending money and time, now I will just spend time to get ad and turn that into zen without spending money, im tired of going threw this where you force us to spend more money to keep up with your content, or else, so again a lot of customers are left wondering a few things..........
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
But what kind of gameplay experience is the playerbase as a whole actually looking for?
If I wanted challenging with a chance for insta-death at every turn, I'd go play something like Path of Exile or a rogue-like. Do the players actually *want* a challenge? Do they *want* to face death and failure on a regular basis? I submit to you that the state of the game suggests, as an aggregate: no, they don't. Maybe what they want is to feel empowered and awesome and HAMSTER. And badasses don't die. Badasses don't get one-shot, especially. They do want to be a meaningful part of something--so while I'll tell them to get used to it, I understand why newer, lower level players might lament that they often see the dungeons they can do turned into a "chase after the level 70 that destroys everything before you can even react" experience.
I am not looking for a game where I have to work hard to succeed on a regular basis. Ultimately, I don't mind a bubble-nerf in principle. I can't always enjoy how good I am at being competent when it doesn't really matter.
But it's also going to make earning my rAD all the more difficult: my AP DCs could know that 90% of the time having an OP in the party meant we're going to succeed no matter what because the two of us combined could overcome nearly any amount of weakness and idiocy from the other three; or any time I see we've got an AP+bubbledin combo in a party on any character, I knew it was very unlikely that my time was about to be wasted. Without an OP, I have to actually look at everyone's ilvl and gear and stats to get a feel for what they might be able to achieve, because there's a lot less idiocy that a GF can compensate for (and a hell of a lot more that a bad GF can add). Failure rates are much higher, and failure is frustrating, and unenjoyable, and does not make me think the game is worth money. Of course, the consequences of the new queue system, the spawning issues that you have still only fixed for CN when it affects all dungeons, and the game's REQUIREMENT that I be efficient about AD generation if I'm to actually get anything or do anything other than screw around for HAMSTER and giggles, means I'm almost never running epic content these days. It's all about doing around 20 instances of Cloak Tower/ToS and invoking. Why? Because it works. Because I don't routinely fail because the party's dumb, or weak, or don't know how to play their classes, or get disconnected, or decide to abandon ship on the group before even I do, etc. etc. etc. I don't run epic party content because the game at this point is designed to actively discourage me from it. There are so many better alternatives out there to get what I want that it's laughable. We keep telling you over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: give us actual, meaningful rewards from doing these things. But you keep ignoring this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Many days I don't even know why I play. It's no longer relevant that I actually do epic content at all, so why am I bothering trying to be HAMSTER at doing it? One way or another, it's definitely not so I can be challenged and frustrated when I could get the same end result much more easily and much more quickly from readily available alternatives.
I think I'm trying to become more powerful so that I can get less frustrated by weak or bad players. If I become powerful enough, eventually I'll be able to remove the frustration and waste-of-my-time-failure factor from content all by myself. Because I would like for there to be something meaningful and good and "epic" to do...but there isn't! Not until you're 3k+ and can carry every party through everything. At which point...what exactly are you trying to get from those runs, again?
Tested GoH. Work as described: 5% over 5 seconds. Now a rigtheous with GoH works +/- as well as a virtuous with this change: no need to have a virtuous dc anymore. Btw there was another DC with GoH close to me: GoH stacks (2x on the GoH icon). Now improve Unbreakable devotion and - why not - rework cleansing fire to provide mitigation instead of GoH\Heals to make this path viable again.
I'll probably have time to get on and poke at this tomorrow. I'm considering trying out AC righteous for max power buffing/debuffing to see what exactly is different on test.
Did any DC ever have time to actually test to see if hastening light actually works when selected in artifact offhand?? I feel with this change it might be worth double checking to see if it's working as intended. I stopped using it when someone brought up that it was bugged and didn't see much difference from anyone in my parties.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Is the Virtuous capstone still bugged in that the HoT aren't doing double healing?
Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Are you going to change bastion and divine SB and healing word to not give a HoT as well? It isn't hard to work a HoT into a rotation no matter what spec you play. any changes to virtuous need to be made to the feats
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Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Is the Virtuous capstone still bugged in that the HoT aren't doing double healing?
Still bugged, cleansing fire is also bugged as not procced by all damaging encounters.
Comments
GoH + big buffs = great.
2 DC paths in the trash (PvE) = no real design behind this nerf.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I see a huge problem here if GFs are allowed to freely get full AP every moment and spam dailies while the OP can't.
Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
My mains are a Bullwark Palladin and an Opressor Control Wizard.
The changes to daily wont affect my Bullwark. I can even tank Orcus with no Bubble and have zero problem.
And maybe CC can be actually useful now. Lets see how that will work for my Opressor...
Leliana C.W. - Opressor CW
Lelian O.P. - Bulwark Paladin
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Just buff encounters to give more shield/temp hp. Shield of faith gives paladin equal footing with GF party defensive wise but it is a daily. So OPs should get something desirable that GFs cannot provide.
Maybe bump shield of faith up to 20 seconds so a paladin can use DP whilst that daily is up in emergencies.
Or cap into the fray at 80% damage bonus.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I'm looking forward to the changes being implemented and adjusting my playstyle accordingly. Like I've done every time they've nerfed something.
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It would be better to skip invincibility and make damages bleed through, so people would still need to pay attention to red spots and mechanics - time reduction is not a bad thing again, just it seems like a tiny bit more than needed, 10-15 second long bubble with ~60-70% protection - just an example - it would still keep the skill viable, but mechanics and cautiousness and healers would be required to be competitive.
I could live without the bubble (outside the fact that it seems to make jut another trash skill to avoid), but some boss and miniboss are do hit in the hundreds of thousands, with the orcus debuff/buff bug in the 500k-1M range. So if things stay the same, those "tiny" annoyances would be good to get rid of. (Portal phase of Orcus does not reliably removes the defense/damage debuff if you complete it, and pretty damages from black and blue dragons of DF)
Binding Oath fix is good in my opinion, oath killing things was funny, but clearly an exploit.
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
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For most of us who had a clear understanding on DC, each path (V/F/R) are designed for different purpose and have different playstyle. I guess none of the devs mained a DC or even tried to advance as a DC from level 1 to level 70 and then from 2k il to 4k il. The experience and playstyle is totally different for each small il progression and we DC have to cope seriously when we pug or even premade with others. In other words, we are everything at anytime. If ppl need heal, we heal, if ppl need dps, we multiply their damage, if ppl need someone to tank, we will go front and try not to die, if ppl need AP, we will try our best to spam some HoT to keep our OP daily up and so on bla bla bla....
Personally, i was a virtuous dc with GoH, pvp faithful tank with GoH and a righteous heavy debuffer with GoH. The magnitude of AP shared as virtuous is totally different as the other two. As the virtuous feat does apply HoT quite frequently, GoH starts to shine as a potential key feature to have for low il party. As a faithful and righteous, though we can still apply GoH, the effect is too small as we dont always have HoT skill in our bar and we dont have extra virtuous feat to trigger it. Thus, GoH only shines in the hand of virtuous. By limiting it to 1% per sec without stacking, virtuous and the other 2 paths have no difference anymore, losing its signature ability. Moreover, the amount of AP gain is drastically reduced until the feat is totally useless. I will give you an example. If i cast 5 HoT skills in 5 sec i should get 5x5%=25% AP, but with the new mechanic i will only get 5% by the time i casted all 5 HoT, even i included another 4% after 4 sec i still only have 9% extra AP. A artifact necklace can do better than 5 points in this feat in terms of triggering condition and AP/s, is this what you all want to see?
Previously, when daily spamming from TR (SE) due to legendary DC sigil, what the devs did is not nerf the sigil but nerf two DC daily until we cant gain AP for 15 sec+. After that, the DC who didnt use their sigil previously has problem to cast their daily while the daily spamming TR are still spamming their daily like nothing. This time i saw the same thing happening again. The way to solve perma bubble from their artifact weapons, DC sigil and AP stat gain is to nerf DC's GoH. Is that related? Yes but only in lower bracket il where OP is still not geared enough. I would like to say, dont consider nerfing DC as the ultimate solution for daily spamming, how many times we are not the culprit but yet we get no bug fixing but more nerfs??
From my perspective, there is some good solutions without hurting DC too much but can also solve the problem of TR SE spamming and OP perma bubble:
1. GoH changed to 0.5% AP/s for 5 sec but allow to stack (no more burst AP but slower steady AP gain per sec)
2. Tune down the duration of OP bubble (you all already did so i will skip)
3. Change the DC sigil active to be double AP gain rate for 10 sec at mythic instead of giving full AP bar per min.
If you really think perma bubble is not because of your luxury snail, hard to grind burning weapon set, mythic DC sigil, gorgon and embellished apparatus mount but is only our DC feat, go on to nerf it as your like and kill the virtuous path. We are not needed for pve as healer over 2.5k il, no more AP buff for team as virtuous so faithful will be more superior in healing that it. If you really want to nerf GoH, go ahead but remember to remove the AP gain penalty on DC dailies which last time you all nerf us without reason. Do not hurt DC anymore when you dont have to, if you need more information abt DC, please ask the devs who mained a DC to go into temple forum to discuss with us, ty!! (though i think this guy not exist)
It is still good. Having 1% ap every sec for 5 secs is more than fine and if the cleric can rotate his healing over time effects well, gift of haste can give 1% ap every sec until the daily bar is filled. It now works similar to devote cleric artifact but not as fast as it. Also, the ap generation from the allies themself added to the haste buff will keep AP for them still filled. So gift of haste is still good in my opinion.
About divine glow: It still doesnt proc weapon enchantments. And the wording for ranks is still the same. Each rank mentions "damage buff". Divine glow doesnt buff damage but damage resistance. And about not stacking while in divinity... well I'm used to what it has always been so didnt get my hopes too high...
Also i was expecting more fixes and some kinda buff to some Virtuous feats that are not working well and that i have mentioned for some long in old posts, im tired of having to post if i am being ignored.
Maybe if the challenge was met with actual rewards. You know, actually desirable things other than salvage. Like..boe insignias, or dropped sets, or like...anything other than what we have now really. What the team fails to grasp is that challenging content will only be done if there is an equal reward for completing it. Not a .005% chance to get a +5 ring or artifact. That can hardly be called a fair chance at a reward.
So if you want to challenge us, don't just beat the living hell out of our toons; give us some compensation for running the paltry endgame offerings that you left us with after stealing our dungeons away (yes I'm still bitter over the devs actually taking away the endgame and never giving it back)
And the GoH nerf would have stopped a great many paladins from being able to permabubble, but you are correct Jazzfong, the haste nerf would not have stopped the good/geared paladins from doing their own permabubble, which is why they nerfed the uptime on bubble and nerfed haste at the same time.
The number of dailies really was getting too high, paladins aside. And no, haste was not the only ability at fault here. But like with the lostmauth nerf creating a level playing field to balance DPS on, haste is at a level where the devs can see what changes can be made to AP generation in general.
I agree that virtuous could use a couple tweaks now to make it a bit more unique again.
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If I wanted challenging with a chance for insta-death at every turn, I'd go play something like Path of Exile or a rogue-like. Do the players actually *want* a challenge? Do they *want* to face death and failure on a regular basis? I submit to you that the state of the game suggests, as an aggregate: no, they don't. Maybe what they want is to feel empowered and awesome and HAMSTER. And badasses don't die. Badasses don't get one-shot, especially. They do want to be a meaningful part of something--so while I'll tell them to get used to it, I understand why newer, lower level players might lament that they often see the dungeons they can do turned into a "chase after the level 70 that destroys everything before you can even react" experience.
I am not looking for a game where I have to work hard to succeed on a regular basis. Ultimately, I don't mind a bubble-nerf in principle. I can't always enjoy how good I am at being competent when it doesn't really matter.
But it's also going to make earning my rAD all the more difficult: my AP DCs could know that 90% of the time having an OP in the party meant we're going to succeed no matter what because the two of us combined could overcome nearly any amount of weakness and idiocy from the other three; or any time I see we've got an AP+bubbledin combo in a party on any character, I knew it was very unlikely that my time was about to be wasted. Without an OP, I have to actually look at everyone's ilvl and gear and stats to get a feel for what they might be able to achieve, because there's a lot less idiocy that a GF can compensate for (and a hell of a lot more that a bad GF can add). Failure rates are much higher, and failure is frustrating, and unenjoyable, and does not make me think the game is worth money. Of course, the consequences of the new queue system, the spawning issues that you have still only fixed for CN when it affects all dungeons, and the game's REQUIREMENT that I be efficient about AD generation if I'm to actually get anything or do anything other than screw around for HAMSTER and giggles, means I'm almost never running epic content these days. It's all about doing around 20 instances of Cloak Tower/ToS and invoking. Why? Because it works. Because I don't routinely fail because the party's dumb, or weak, or don't know how to play their classes, or get disconnected, or decide to abandon ship on the group before even I do, etc. etc. etc. I don't run epic party content because the game at this point is designed to actively discourage me from it. There are so many better alternatives out there to get what I want that it's laughable. We keep telling you over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: give us actual, meaningful rewards from doing these things. But you keep ignoring this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Many days I don't even know why I play. It's no longer relevant that I actually do epic content at all, so why am I bothering trying to be HAMSTER at doing it? One way or another, it's definitely not so I can be challenged and frustrated when I could get the same end result much more easily and much more quickly from readily available alternatives.
I think I'm trying to become more powerful so that I can get less frustrated by weak or bad players. If I become powerful enough, eventually I'll be able to remove the frustration and waste-of-my-time-failure factor from content all by myself. Because I would like for there to be something meaningful and good and "epic" to do...but there isn't! Not until you're 3k+ and can carry every party through everything. At which point...what exactly are you trying to get from those runs, again?
Did any DC ever have time to actually test to see if hastening light actually works when selected in artifact offhand?? I feel with this change it might be worth double checking to see if it's working as intended. I stopped using it when someone brought up that it was bugged and didn't see much difference from anyone in my parties.
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Is the Virtuous capstone still bugged in that the HoT aren't doing double healing?
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