Is VIP still worth it?

urlord283 · February 2016

Yes

santralafax · February 2016

To a degree, but it is going back on what was offered. A bait and switch, as it were. If I offered you a tasty and nourishing meal every day for a year for $4 a day, please pay up front--and only delivered on nourishingfor 2/3 of the year--wouldn't you complain?

tupac · February 2016

lets riot against cryptic

healary · February 2016

Several things players need to realize before they spend their money on any online game/virtual world:

(1) They don't own any of the virtual properties regardless of how much they pay and how they pay for it whether through subscription or microtransactions. If the game is advertised as buy-to-pay, all you own is the box and the player manual (if it has one).

(2) All game features are subject to change any time, solely based on the decisions of the developers.

(3) You are offered a service, not a product.

An online game is an entertainment similar to a movie or a concert. Suppose you buy a ticket to Miley Cyrus's concert, you are not given any promise on what songs she is going to sing, what clothes she will wear or if she will wear anything at all, what guest singers, band and dancers will show up and whether she will stick her tongue out. You ticket only entitles you to the show, anything beyond that is solely decided by the organizer of the concert. Likewise, in an online game, you are only offered access to the game world and everything virtual inside the game is owned and controlled by their rightful owners, sorry, not the players.

That said, whether it is worth it to see Miley should not be decided by the songs, the guests, the music and her tongue. Only you can decide whether you pay or not and don't complain if she doesn't sing your favorite songs or stick her tongue out. She can change it without given you any notice.

regenerde · February 2016

And you should realize that Xbox users can get a refund from MS, so much for your EULA talk...

And if Miley Cyrus only shows up, but doesn't sing or stops singing in the middle of the concert without any reason, you can demand your ticket money back.

Anyway, back on topic, another point you might want to consider, what will Cryptic/PWE also change in the future?
You should think about this as well, before you start or continue your ViP.

healary · February 2016

regenerde said:
And you should realize that Xbox users can get a refund from MS, so much for your EULA talk...

And if Miley Cyrus only shows up, but doesn't sing or stops singing in the middle of the concert without any reason, you can demand your ticket money back.

Anyway, back on topic, another point you might want to consider, what will Cryptic/PWE also change in the future?
You should think about this as well, before you start or continue your ViP.

Miley did sing although she sang a different song than what was announced before. Neverwinter Online VIP buyers do get VIP benefits although content from the Trade Bar shop was changed. Either case, nothing can the consumers complain since their agreements do not cover exactly what fixture content is covered.

When xbox users get a refund from MS, it is between MS and THEIR xbox users. The EULA between Cryptic and NWO players have nothing to do with MS. It is the extremely obvious.

smulch · February 2016

It's really akin to buying a pass to eat at a subway for a month and them removing 2 ingredients available to you later on. It's really not a big deal.

wildfirede · February 2016

yea, except if the two ingredents are bread and meat

smulch · February 2016

wildfirede said:
yea, except if the two ingredents are bread and meat

more like pickle and jallapinos. The main part of vip is still there, every bonuses and the keys are there. It's just one thing you get while opening lockboxes that's gone. It's really a silly over reaction.

healary · February 2016

smulch said:

wildfirede said:
yea, except if the two ingredents are bread and meat
more like pickle and jallapinos. The main part of vip is still there, every bonuses and the keys are there. It's just one thing you get while opening lockboxes that's gone. It's really a silly over reaction.

I can understand the mostly negative reactions since nobody wants to get less for the same price they paid. However, this is what they paid even though they don't agree or in self denial even if they know this is going to happen. Subway can take away just the pickles or even all the breads and meat if their customers agreed to their terms from the beginning. They probably won't take away the bread and meat but it doesn't mean they can't, if such a mutually agreed upon agreement exists. Yes, it will be bait and switch but it happens in many all-you-can-eat-buffet eateries. Their menus are always subject to change (in small print).

wildfirede · February 2016

Yea and if they happen to do the bait and switch ppl stop buying monthly passes from them, until they offer anything better and ppl bait again atleast. If you were a pickle addict i guess you would not renew your monthly membership and think twice buying the pickles extra for 1000zen/each

anyway sorry for derailing the topic.

My opinion:
At this point barely worth it for convenience and more like a lottery subscription (with some luck it pays itself via the key but 10 companion kits in a row and you loose money from it)

araneax · February 2016

regenerde said:
And you should realize that Xbox users can get a refund from MS, so much for your EULA talk...

And if Miley Cyrus only shows up, but doesn't sing or stops singing in the middle of the concert without any reason, you can demand your ticket money back.

Anyway, back on topic, another point you might want to consider, what will Cryptic/PWE also change in the future?
You should think about this as well, before you start or continue your ViP.

You, i like you.
I enjoy reading your posts.
Thank you for making it worth a read.

regenerde · February 2016

healary said:

regenerde said:
And you should realize that Xbox users can get a refund from MS, so much for your EULA talk...

And if Miley Cyrus only shows up, but doesn't sing or stops singing in the middle of the concert without any reason, you can demand your ticket money back.

Anyway, back on topic, another point you might want to consider, what will Cryptic/PWE also change in the future?
You should think about this as well, before you start or continue your ViP.
Miley did sing although she sang a different song than what was announced before. Neverwinter Online VIP buyers do get VIP benefits although content from the Trade Bar shop was changed. Either case, nothing can the consumers complain since their agreements do not cover exactly what fixture content is covered.

When xbox users get a refund from MS, it is between MS and THEIR xbox users. The EULA between Cryptic and NWO players have nothing to do with MS. It is the extremely obvious.

The payments go through MS to Cryptic/PWE for those "services", which might also give some players ground to get their money back on the PC side, if they paid through Steam, and if Steam is willing to go through with this like MS is.
And MS is pretty much stepping over Cryptic/PWE and giving the players the money back, but MS will take back this money from Cryptic/PWE in return... that should also be obvious.

And we can do this dance all night long with different real life examples, but this doesn't change one simple fact:
If you advertise and then deliver a certain "service" for a payment, and the contract goes over a certain period of time, you can't just alter the content of that "service" in the middle of it.
You either have to pay back the customer, or you have to deliver the advertised "service" until the contract ends.

In this case, the Coals/Pres/Rubies should stay in the TB market for the same price, until the ViP runs out. After that, they can remove those, and the players can decide if they want to continue the ViP under the new terms.

And i'm also pretty sure, that depending on where you reside, there are allready court decisions about EULAs, and that those can't cut out every right of the customer with just one wall of text and a simple click.

Something else is also "extremely obvious", this whole thing is a two way street... and that games need players, and that it's not the other way around.
To still make a profit from ViP, you need other players to buy the loot from lockboxes... and to keep the ViP up and running, you either have to spend your money on ZEN, or trade your time/AD for ZEN on the ZAX.

And i'm also not sure about what to make of doing this ViP change so close to the release of the next module... the worth of ViP might change with that release too.

plasticbat · February 2016

VIP gives you one lockbox key per day + many other things.
Lockbox gives you t-bar + many other things
t-bar could be used to buy stuff in t-bar store which contained c-ward and many other things.

If all these cannot be changed, we will not have new lockbox (which may not contain certain items when VIP was created).
We may not have many new stuff from T-bar store.

When I got my VIP, c-ward was 200 t-bar and next to nothing else to be bought.
I am not saying there are a lot of stuff right now but it is way more than when I got my VIP.

I am not saying I am happy with it.
But the c-ward "promise" is based on only one post long time ago and most people who bought VIP might never read that post.
Many people based on assumption nothing would be changed and in fact, a lot of thing had been changed already before this disaster.

We may say VIP means c-ward but technically, it is only whatever VIP provides (stated in its description) which is one lockbox key (+ other VIP stuff).

wildfirede · February 2016

plasticbat said:
VIP gives you one lockbox key per day + many other things.
Lockbox gives you t-bar + many other things
t-bar could be used to buy stuff in t-bar store which contained c-ward and many other things.

If all these cannot be changed, we will not have new lockbox (which may not contain certain items when VIP was created).
We may not have many new stuff from T-bar store.

When I got my VIP, c-ward was 200 t-bar and next to nothing else to be bought.
I am not saying there are a lot of stuff right now but it is way more than when I got my VIP.

I am not saying I am happy with it.
But the c-ward "promise" is based on only one post long time ago and most people who bought VIP might never read that post.
Many people based on assumption nothing would be changed and in fact, a lot of thing had been changed already before this disaster.

We may say VIP means c-ward but technically, it is only whatever VIP provides (stated in its description) which is one lockbox key (+ other VIP stuff).

Yes, you are right here - they didn't just made it worse (censored myself here) for VIP holders, they also made it worse for people buying keys from the ZEN-Store

So the last change is not harming VIP directly but the key you get from it or buy from the ZEN Store.

asthazarf · February 2016

regenerde said:

The payments go through MS to Cryptic/PWE for those "services", which might also give some players ground to get their money back on the PC side, if they paid through Steam, and if Steam is willing to go through with this like MS is.
And MS is pretty much stepping over Cryptic/PWE and giving the players the money back, but MS will take back this money from Cryptic/PWE in return... that should also be obvious.

Hey... they have to make that money back somehow, no? Why not pull a fast one on PC, where MS can't interfere, eh?

Anyway, VIP perks are not bad all in all. I mainly used it to move faster (walking around is a grind itself) and for wards. 1/2 cut off right there.

regenerde · February 2016

You're right, these perks are not bad at the moment, but if that past has taught us anything, that perks can change quickly... therefore it's hard to say what ViP is worth now or in the future.

wumpadump · February 2016

Is VIP worth it anymore?

Let me think....

**** No.

tomerant · February 2016

Name me one f2p game where it's worth buying VIP / Patron / Premium / Subscription status, besides ArcheAge which is sort of pay to play game with free demo.

Seems to me that all games offer you only speeding the things up, which kinda beats the purpose of an RPG for me.
This genre isn't about getting stuff in 2 months of gameplay... I don't know, it can be just me but I like to have some stuff to do and upgrade or farm at any given time.
I hate being "given stuff". I wanna earn them by playing.

When I do spend money it's on mounts and cosmetic stuff like outfits and maybe some housing stuff if game has that feature.

healary · February 2016

regenerde said:

healary said:

regenerde said:
And you should realize that Xbox users can get a refund from MS, so much for your EULA talk...

And if Miley Cyrus only shows up, but doesn't sing or stops singing in the middle of the concert without any reason, you can demand your ticket money back.

Anyway, back on topic, another point you might want to consider, what will Cryptic/PWE also change in the future?
You should think about this as well, before you start or continue your ViP.
Miley did sing although she sang a different song than what was announced before. Neverwinter Online VIP buyers do get VIP benefits although content from the Trade Bar shop was changed. Either case, nothing can the consumers complain since their agreements do not cover exactly what fixture content is covered.

When xbox users get a refund from MS, it is between MS and THEIR xbox users. The EULA between Cryptic and NWO players have nothing to do with MS. It is the extremely obvious.

The payments go through MS to Cryptic/PWE for those "services", which might also give some players ground to get their money back on the PC side, if they paid through Steam, and if Steam is willing to go through with this like MS is.
And MS is pretty much stepping over Cryptic/PWE and giving the players the money back, but MS will take back this money from Cryptic/PWE in return... that should also be obvious.

And we can do this dance all night long with different real life examples, but this doesn't change one simple fact:
If you advertise and then deliver a certain "service" for a payment, and the contract goes over a certain period of time, you can't just alter the content of that "service" in the middle of it.
You either have to pay back the customer, or you have to deliver the advertised "service" until the contract ends.

In this case, the Coals/Pres/Rubies should stay in the TB market for the same price, until the ViP runs out. After that, they can remove those, and the players can decide if they want to continue the ViP under the new terms.

And i'm also pretty sure, that depending on where you reside, there are allready court decisions about EULAs, and that those can't cut out every right of the customer with just one wall of text and a simple click.

Something else is also "extremely obvious", this whole thing is a two way street... and that games need players, and that it's not the other way around.
To still make a profit from ViP, you need other players to buy the loot from lockboxes... and to keep the ViP up and running, you either have to spend your money on ZEN, or trade your time/AD for ZEN on the ZAX.

And i'm also not sure about what to make of doing this ViP change so close to the release of the next module... the worth of ViP might change with that release too.

How MS deals with xbox users has nothing to do with the EULA Neverwinter Online players signed with Cryptic. MS also did not issue any comment what about Neverwinter at all. That's 1000000% obvious.

We don't have to go over any example at all regarding change of game features any time. The game developers simply can and all of them have done it. If you have to pick a bone with Cryptic, you can even say they were not allowed to change payment model in their games like STO from subscription to free-to-play. Sure players could complain, especially the ones who paid for LIFETIME MEMBERSHIPS. They were not supposed to pay a cent more to buy cash shop items but that's only under the old subscription terms which Cryptic could and had changed. They could complain but nothing they could do since Cryptic had the rights to change any term anytime. Did subscription model players get their money back? Did LIFETIME MEMBERS have to pay more? Did Cryptic break any law? ROFL!!!! ROFL!!!! ROFL!!!! We all know the answer since every online game deverloper has changed their subscription terms. Nobody got their money back. No developers was sued. Nobody can complain anymore now. It has been 5 years since many of these game developers changed their terms, particularly from subscription to free-to-play. They did it and no subscription holders including lifetime members could do anything because they signed EULAs that allowed the game studios to do it.

asthazarf · February 2016

@healary

You've already been told off regarding your comments on EULAs. Pages 20-22 on:

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1212367/update-on-the-trade-bar-store

Any EULA will be debated in a court and shunned if deemed abusive. There have been precedents both to support this as well as otherwise (simple google search). It really only depends on how good a lawyer you get. The fact that nobody tried this against Cryptic yet doesn't mean it's not possible.

As for the MS case, it's doubtful it's over. Give it time. I'm leaning towards the belief that MS will do everything in their power to "collect" what they've lost. Hopefully, it'll set an example.

baeyorn · February 2016

To me, yes.. VIP still worth it.

In my gameplay, Wards were actuallly a tertiary benefit.

The extra AD, the no injuries, the Invokve-anywhere, etc... are all benefits I use all the time while playing.. on every character.

The Wards I need, I can get from Invoke or using the ZAX to get the zen.

And to be honest, only percentages at 10% or less do I ever use a coal ward.

Rest of the time, preservation wards are more than sufficient.

deathbeez · February 2016

wildfirede said:
yea, except if the two ingredents are bread and meat

LOL right.

Unknown · February 2016

This content has been removed.

plasticbat · February 2016

brikkenw#6705 said:
I am new. Not even level 20. Will this game be enjoyable if I plan on spending NO money?

Only you can tell. Everyone has their own opinion and none of them is wrong because it is a personal thing.

Unknown · February 2016

This content has been removed.

lirithiel · February 2016

brikkenw#6705 said:
I am new. Not even level 20. Will this game be enjoyable if I plan on spending NO money?

There are currently many people I bet that are doing just that since the latest change to TB store. I'm sure as HAMSTER not spending another dime on this game until Cryptic get their collective finger out of their HAMSTER.

It will take a bit longer but you can convert AD to Zen to get what you need (epic mount, extra character slots, bank space etc). NO need to spend any hard cash on this game and I don't recommend that you do.

putzboy78 · February 2016

defiantone99 said:

You have to spend money to at least get an Epic Zen mount and extra bank space. If not, you are in for a hard time.

mount yes, but you don't need extra bank space, make 2 characters to store your stuff for you and leveage the mailbox. That's a reasonable amount of storage.

devlonas · February 2016

Okay, you have to spend money to at least get a weapon and armor enchant in order to have any hope of participating in end game PVE content.

commanderkruge · February 2016

tomerant#1526 said:
Name me one f2p game where it's worth buying VIP / Patron / Premium / Subscription status, besides ArcheAge which is sort of pay to play game with free demo.

Ryzom is coming to steam. . .

Is VIP still worth it?

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