Is VIP still worth it?

adinosii

I have in the past recommended that people get VIP - it does offer definite quality-of-live benefits (like the signpost) and the daily key allows the VIP to more than pay for itself. If you sold all the lockbox drops (possibly "upgrading" the Genie's Gift first), you would get back what the VIP cost you in the first place and you should be left with around 200-250K AD in profit per month.

Add to this the fact that you could spend your trade bars to cover your preservation/coalescent ward needs, and the VIP was a pretty sweet deal - one of the best ideas they have had in a while.

This just changed.

So, is the VIP still profitable? According to my calculations, well...it's borderline. You will still get more than enough AD from the lockbox drops to pay for next month's VIP, but as the exchange rate approaches 500, there will be less AD left over. Morover, while you can now for example spend your trade bars on R7 enchants, you are not able to make the amount of AD required to buy the Zen you need to get the wards you would have gotten in the past.

So, as a result I am no longer recommending that people pay for VIP.

The recent change has another effect - it is now much, much more expensive to gear up characters than before - in other words, the game is even less alt-friendly than it was. For people like myself, who really only play one alt, this is perhaps not a big deal. I spent everything I had on refining and gearing up the previous 2xRP weekend. I spent all the trade bars I had accumulated on wards and managed to get my TiL up to 3.5K. All my enchants are R10 and ready to be upgraded to R11. I was planning to spend my future trade bars on Coal wards and upgrade my enchants. Obviously that is not going to happen now, but considering that I don't do PvP, I don't need to push my TiL even higher anyhow. Why bother?

I'm not going to gear up my alts - it is just too expensive.

I'm not leaving, though, but I know that many people are. I don't know why Cryptic keeps making one bad decisions after another - it is like they are focusing on short-term profit, and not caring that the player numbers keep dropping (just take a look at http://steamcharts.com/app/109600

I have a feeling that many PvP players are leaving, though - understandable as at least two eagerly-awaited PvP-focused games are appearing (one with an open beta that started yesterday, and the other will go live in two weeks).

When Neverwinter closes its doors, maybe in a year from now, will it be remembered as a game that started out with great promise, but was driven into the ground because of short-term greed?

dfnce

Agree.

For me and others it is more difficult. I have many characters i treat as mains with which i have been thriving in NW for more than 2 years. Gear up all of them decently as f2p is challenge. Now we returned to point existing before module 8.

I crafted most of enchantments at top levels i wanted. Few left in plans, take me another year or so.

warpet

I can see a lot of ppl just quiting prices of enhancments will be just like before mod 6 while we wont be able to earn 200k+ from drops like then ,we might see a lot of ppl asking for cash return they have on vip since they changed rules of vip

regenerde

If RNGesus is on your side, and if you can still sell all the things you pull out of lockboxes... then ViP might still be worth it for you.

smulch

yes, it will still be worth it.

edit: I do not buy vip with real money but with zen from the exchange.

instynctive

The signpost alone is worth the price of admission.

mercedesman

Folks, If we remove emotion and apply logic and common business sense and look at the state of the game now, it is easy to see that this company has no real long term goals for the game. In order for the F2P model to work you need a strong base of players in which a small percentage of people will play with no capital infusion, a small percentage of people will play with a huge capital infusion and the largest percentage of people will put a small, but continuous, stream of capital into the game. Think of this, the amount of "whales" in the game is very small compared to the whole player base. What we have now, as can easily be seen in day-to-day play is a clear divide of the haves and the have-nots.. meaning that the median base of players that provide a steady stream of income is greatly diminished.

While I state this from "my" observations on the game (I play every day for about 4 hours), I don't see this game lasting as it should/could have. In all of the "economy" adjustments as of recent, they have been clearly in the benefit of Cryptic and not the player base. Why would you state that you were adjusting the economy and revamping the TTB market prices only to rework/revoke the core items purchased from the market? Basically to bait people to come back in and then remove the bait. I strongly believe that Cryptic knows that the ship is sinking on this game (if they don't then we know that the stupid things done is because they ARE stupid) and they are trying their best to nickel and dime us while they can.

This game has become my hobby and I have enjoyed it thus far. I normally spend between $50 and $100 per month on this game and with that said, I watch the state of the game closely because at some point It will be time for that to stop as the end will be near. I don't think we are there yet but we seem to be approaching that time faster and faster with all the changes they have made and the changes that they haven't made. VIP has been whittled down to a small time saver to keep you from having to run across a map to get to the portal or invoke. A small time savings to the hours you just spend mindlessly grinding for nothing.

I worked at my families business a great portion of my life and the old saying "The customer is always right" doesn't actually mean that the customer is always right.. it means you do whatever is needed to keep the customer and thus the revenue..

Cryptic why are we always wrong?

deathbeez

I'm upset, but not shocked. This studio can't shock me anymore.

I've been a VIP since it came out and the best thing I ever got from those boxes is a greater mark of power.
It's the companion/pet enchantment box or something of equal uselessness almost every time. The bars is what made it worth while.

Taking away the wards is a kick. I saved up my bars and stocked up just now (since I just found out this was going down on the down-low @ 6am PST).
Hopefully it will last me till I'm done with this game.

tomiotar

mercedesman said:

Folks, If we remove emotion and apply logic and common business sense and look at the state of the game now, it is easy to see that this company has no real long term goals for the game. In order for the F2P model to work you need a strong base of players in which a small percentage of people will play with no capital infusion, a small percentage of people will play with a huge capital infusion and the largest percentage of people will put a small, but continuous, stream of capital into the game. Think of this, the amount of "whales" in the game is very small compared to the whole player base. What we have now, as can easily be seen in day-to-day play is a clear divide of the haves and the have-nots.. meaning that the median base of players that provide a steady stream of income is greatly diminished.

While I state this from "my" observations on the game (I play every day for about 4 hours), I don't see this game lasting as it should/could have. In all of the "economy" adjustments as of recent, they have been clearly in the benefit of Cryptic and not the player base. Why would you state that you were adjusting the economy and revamping the TTB market prices only to rework/revoke the core items purchased from the market? Basically to bait people to come back in and then remove the bait. I strongly believe that Cryptic knows that the ship is sinking on this game (if they don't then we know that the stupid things done is because they ARE stupid) and they are trying their best to nickel and dime us while they can.

This game has become my hobby and I have enjoyed it thus far. I normally spend between $50 and $100 per month on this game and with that said, I watch the state of the game closely because at some point It will be time for that to stop as the end will be near. I don't think we are there yet but we seem to be approaching that time faster and faster with all the changes they have made and the changes that they haven't made. VIP has been whittled down to a small time saver to keep you from having to run across a map to get to the portal or invoke. A small time savings to the hours you just spend mindlessly grinding for nothing.

I worked at my families business a great portion of my life and the old saying "The customer is always right" doesn't actually mean that the customer is always right.. it means you do whatever is needed to keep the customer and thus the revenue..

Cryptic why are we always wrong?

I've been in your place but like 1 year ago, investing on a game that was already showing it was sinking. In my case I've stoped buying ZEN after Mod6 and all the lies that came from it and the amount and of glitchs and bugs that downgraded this game from a good one to a beta stage game. I've already seen my whole friend list look as an inactive list, my guild shutdown because we couldn't afford the costs of a SH, so the few actives left and now I was just loging to get the key and try my luck while hopping something change on the game. I've already used like half of my vip year and with those TBs I've been able to buy back the perfect vorpal I've sold to get the AD for the VIP and now I have also an extra greater vorpal for an alt, so in my case buying the 1 year VIP it did worth it. The problem start now that I know the keys are also pointless there is no more reason to even log to try my luck with them, basically I have no more surviving friends, the game is extremly easy when you reach 2,5k IL and extremly unprofitable if you try to play it to get better than that and now its pointless to do the only thing I was doing that was trying luck. When I've sold the vorpal to get the VIP I did it because for me it was like a timer of the remaining life time for this game, but it seem it lasted half of that time.

mercedesman

The sad thing to me is that we as a community constantly complain about the game and what all Cryptic has done to us and the game... and yet we still come back for more. I place myself in this group as well. When you stop for a second and think about what we are doing it is just as crazy as sticking our hand in a turning fan and complaining about the pain, only to do it again and again and again. When do we stop putting our hand in the fan? The hard question to ask is are they stupid for doing this to us or are we stupid to stick around and keep getting hurt. hmmm

sigillmacfinn

adinosii said:

I have in the past recommended that people get VIP - it does offer definite quality-of-live benefits (like the signpost) and the daily key allows the VIP to more than pay for itself. If you sold all the lockbox drops (possibly "upgrading" the Genie's Gift first), you would get back what the VIP cost you in the first place and you should be left with around 200-250K AD in profit per month.

Add to this the fact that you could spend your trade bars to cover your preservation/coalescent ward needs, and the VIP was a pretty sweet deal - one of the best ideas they have had in a while.

This just changed.

So, is the VIP still profitable? According to my calculations, well...it's borderline. You will still get more than enough AD from the lockbox drops to pay for next month's VIP

Not when what you drop from a lockbox has the AH value of 1999 - 2000 AD it won't - opening 1 box a day for the past few days [treated the wife for St Valentine's day & she treated me] the "best" item I have managed was a Man-At-Arms which considering I already had 5 for my char is almost worthless, nothing I have dropped has headed to the AH as it's all been a bit pants TBH & as I don't qualify for the travel signpost. anvil or postal courier I'm feeling a bit cheated TBH as this was the only surefire means I had to get C Wards [over a time but hey I was OK with that] now it's every 11 days I might just drop 1 from an invoke chest & the drop rate of those is phenomenally low - so yeah not happy.

putzboy78

VIP is definitely still a worthwhile investment. It was before the price decrease on wards and it is now.

mercedesman said:

Folks, If we remove emotion and apply logic and common business sense and look at the state of the game now, it is easy to see that this company has no real long term goals for the game. In order for the F2P model to work you need a strong base of players in which a small percentage of people will play with no capital infusion, a small percentage of people will play with a huge capital infusion and the largest percentage of people will put a small, but continuous, stream of capital into the game. Think of this, the amount of "whales" in the game is very small compared to the whole player base. What we have now, as can easily be seen in day-to-day play is a clear divide of the haves and the have-nots.. meaning that the median base of players that provide a steady stream of income is greatly diminished.

While I state this from "my" observations on the game (I play every day for about 4 hours), I don't see this game lasting as it should/could have. In all of the "economy" adjustments as of recent, they have been clearly in the benefit of Cryptic and not the player base. Why would you state that you were adjusting the economy and revamping the TTB market prices only to rework/revoke the core items purchased from the market? Basically to bait people to come back in and then remove the bait. I strongly believe that Cryptic knows that the ship is sinking on this game (if they don't then we know that the stupid things done is because they ARE stupid) and they are trying their best to nickel and dime us while they can.

This game has become my hobby and I have enjoyed it thus far. I normally spend between $50 and $100 per month on this game and with that said, I watch the state of the game closely because at some point It will be time for that to stop as the end will be near. I don't think we are there yet but we seem to be approaching that time faster and faster with all the changes they have made and the changes that they haven't made. VIP has been whittled down to a small time saver to keep you from having to run across a map to get to the portal or invoke. A small time savings to the hours you just spend mindlessly grinding for nothing.

I worked at my families business a great portion of my life and the old saying "The customer is always right" doesn't actually mean that the customer is always right.. it means you do whatever is needed to keep the customer and thus the revenue..

Cryptic why are we always wrong?

While you accurately describe the donation category you should also consider the target longevity of players. There is an overhead to this game. Specifically facilities, equipment, development, customer support, etc. The target of this game is not for the longevity of the players (otherwise we would have had a rework of the ardent coin awards by now. They want people to come in, pay $200 to get setup and then get bored in leave. The hope is those people come back every 4 months and drop in another $50 to get the new shiny and get bored and leave again. This gives them an ability to stagger their resources. Why stagger resources? So the server farm can support a patch to another game while neverwinter is in a "valley". Rotate releases and keep the size of the farm small and the same goes for customer support being able to handle a new module on another game then coming back to never winter in time for its module. Since cryptic does not employ a Business Analyst who can show them ROI on their decisions they are just guessing otherwise your economy model would probably hold up.

aaramis75

If you enjoy gambling with the lockbox keys, then it's still worth it by far - it's the best key-to-dollar ratio still (avg 30 keys / month at $10 vs. the Zen store's 20 keys for $20).

Throw in the ease of being able to invoke anywhere, check mail anywhere, travel anywhere instantly (signpost), and extra AD earned; yeah, it's still worth it.

throsbi

asking someone if something is worth anything to you is like asking a guy if his marriage to his wife for 50 years was worth it to him. Or if he loves her etc etc. worth is like asking for the meaning of life. What has worth to you can be worthless to me or the other way backwards here. You have to look at the rewards and say to yourself will i use these things, do i benefit from these things, do i want/need these things. There are other ways of measuring the value or worth of something but to ask someone else is like asking a weather man to give you a forecast.................

demonmonger

You cannot keep the whales paying in ga me when the basic rules and functions of the game keep getting twisted...

It feels like we are still in beta mode, and no one spends thousands of dollars once they realize the stability of the games principles are non existent

smulch

You also get tarmalune bars, which you can use to buy rank 7 enchants. You'll make about 1 enchant per box + the other stuff. You really don't need much to get back your cost and make some.

kemnimtarkas

I like the easy use mailbox/travel post options.

If you don't mind traveling through maps for the 50,000th time on grind quests, then the only value is in the daily key drop.

ogarious

In my opinion, no. Not anymore.

zibadawa

crainium#5721 said:

dont see how you think the lock boxes drop pay you back, i have only once in about 300 keys got anything that paid decent amount of ad, the last 50 keys i used i didnt even get one smop, vip is not border line , its is just plain fact not worth paying for unless you save ad an purchase it that way, as a sign post or mail box , big deal, sure its handy but what in the reality of the game does it improve not a whole lot.

Because you have to sell everything you get. DO NOT use it. Sell it. You can get 10-20k a day just about every time (the black ice packs are a bit cheaper last I checked, but most things are 15k+ and sell pretty quickly). That's ~400k a month, which (before the TB store nerf) was less than the cost of 1 month of VIP without a coupon. The prices of the packs are elevated by the small chance to get good stuff out of them. It's very likely that if you use one of them you will get less than the market price of the pack as a result, so just sell it. Let the rich people or the fools try their luck with the lotto tickets, while you go for the sure thing.

rollingonit

It'll depend what endgame looks like at 2 modules or so in the future. How quickly they add the old epic dungeons, new ones, and most importantly what the rewardvstimevsinvestment is for them or whatever endgame is eventually formed.

But as of now, it did take a huge drop in actual value.

zibadawa

rollingonit said:

...add the old epic dungeons...

What, you haven't heard?

rollingonit

zibadawa said:

rollingonit said:

...add the old epic dungeons...

What, you haven't heard?

This is sarcasm right?

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1211640/developer-blog-dungeons-to-delve/p4

CN and leveling dungeons. So after 1/2 a year, this is all they can return us. Sadface times infinity.

I hope sarcasm.

helix

This game has moved more towards pay-to-win than ever before with this change, as VIP no longer has the incentive it did before. This will erode the VIP base in Cryptic's hope that folks will pay more with a pay-to-win model. The only problem is in the long run players detest pay-to-win and games that run on that model ultimately shutter their doors.

santralafax

rollingonit said:

zibadawa said:

rollingonit said:

...add the old epic dungeons...

What, you haven't heard?

This is sarcasm right?

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1211640/developer-blog-dungeons-to-delve/p4

CN and leveling dungeons. So after 1/2 a year, this is all they can return us. Sadface times infinity.

I hope sarcasm.

Where have you been? Maze Engine doesn't come out til Spring. It's been a full year since they took the dungeons out.